how to make a pallet wall without nailing?
March 20, 2016 1:24 AM Subscribe
I'm planning a recording studio on the cheap. For aesthetics, and as a way of diffusing some sound, I'm thinking about reclaimed pallet wood as a covering. Is there a glue product that would be suitable for this (it seems like pretty low grade wood is used for pallets) so that I'm not making many additional holes in the wall?
The walls I'm trying to make are designed to buffer and reroute sound waves to absolutely minimize whats going out of the room, let alone the building. You're supposed to drill/cut as few holes as possible in the outer layer (hence you see those outlet boxes hanging on the wall rather than a recessed outlet).
Note: I'd rate my building/architecture experience at "just Googled 'gypsum'," so, really any advice you might have in this would probably go a long way. Sound is paramount, but this is a place I'd like to eventually work in professionally, so has to look somewhat welcoming and hopefully pretty cool.
The walls I'm trying to make are designed to buffer and reroute sound waves to absolutely minimize whats going out of the room, let alone the building. You're supposed to drill/cut as few holes as possible in the outer layer (hence you see those outlet boxes hanging on the wall rather than a recessed outlet).
Note: I'd rate my building/architecture experience at "just Googled 'gypsum'," so, really any advice you might have in this would probably go a long way. Sound is paramount, but this is a place I'd like to eventually work in professionally, so has to look somewhat welcoming and hopefully pretty cool.
Gotta go with humbold32. I'd be worried about tearing the sheet rock off the studs. Have you thought about adding insulated walls just inside the existing walls?
posted by ridgerunner at 2:54 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ridgerunner at 2:54 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
You could use floor to ceiling 2x4 which are held in with heavy duty anchors and instead nail or preferably screw the pallets into those. That way each pallet is only supporting their own weight and also each beam is essentially supported by the floor and anchored into the ceiling. As long as people aren't using it as a climbing wall it should be quite secure and only require 4 holes into the floor and ceiling for each vertical post.
posted by koolkat at 3:12 AM on March 20, 2016
posted by koolkat at 3:12 AM on March 20, 2016
Best answer: I *think* there's a misapprehension of what the poster's asking - the question seems to be about reclaiming the wood from the pallets and affixing it to the walls without making holes, not suspending entire pallets from the sheetrock.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 3:13 AM on March 20, 2016
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 3:13 AM on March 20, 2016
Ahhh I figured that with the void echoing space within the pallets that the entire pallets would be affixed thereby creating a sound reflective/dampening void. Would merely gluing a thin layer of wood to a wall be effective? I think that some actual insulation would be better than gluing a think layer of cheap wood.
posted by koolkat at 3:20 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by koolkat at 3:20 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
If Emperor SnooKloze is right, Liquid Nail should work on most paints.
posted by ridgerunner at 3:57 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ridgerunner at 3:57 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Agreed, but that's not really going to provide much sound attenuation to the outside? Of course, neither are fully assembles pallets.
Double-wall construction, and filling the void with sheetrock cut-offs is the way to go.
posted by humboldt32 at 4:10 AM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Double-wall construction, and filling the void with sheetrock cut-offs is the way to go.
posted by humboldt32 at 4:10 AM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You're supposed to drill/cut as few holes as possible in the outer layer (hence you see those outlet boxes hanging on the wall rather than a recessed outlet).
I think you're misunderstanding this advice. You don't want to create unsealed openings into the wall cavity, but nails going through sheetrock and into wood studs would not have that problematic effect.
If you still want to glue wood to the wall, then Liquid Nails, drywall or construction adhesive, all of which are sold in large tubes and dispensed with a caulking gun, would do the trick. Not all pallets are built from super-heavy exotic woods. In my experience, relatively few are.
All of that said, I share others' skepticism that wood paneling will have the acoustic properties you're hoping for, regardless of how you hang it.
posted by jon1270 at 4:23 AM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you're misunderstanding this advice. You don't want to create unsealed openings into the wall cavity, but nails going through sheetrock and into wood studs would not have that problematic effect.
If you still want to glue wood to the wall, then Liquid Nails, drywall or construction adhesive, all of which are sold in large tubes and dispensed with a caulking gun, would do the trick. Not all pallets are built from super-heavy exotic woods. In my experience, relatively few are.
All of that said, I share others' skepticism that wood paneling will have the acoustic properties you're hoping for, regardless of how you hang it.
posted by jon1270 at 4:23 AM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
If Emperor SnooKloze is right, Liquid Nail should work on most paints.
But remember that removing the wood will probably destroy the sheetrock wall -- construction adhesive is strong stuff and does not come off easily. This would be a poor idea in a rented space, or somewhere that later needed to be sold.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:00 AM on March 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
But remember that removing the wood will probably destroy the sheetrock wall -- construction adhesive is strong stuff and does not come off easily. This would be a poor idea in a rented space, or somewhere that later needed to be sold.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:00 AM on March 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: If you're gluing to a painted wall, your limiting factor will be the adhesive limits of the paint itself. It doesn't matter how strong your glue is; long term, anything heavy will peel off as the underlying paint delaminates from the sheetrock. For that matter, the sheetrock itself can delaminate as the paper facing pulls away from the layer of gypsum inside.
I would not recommend using glue in this application. Use mechanical fasteners, i.e. screws or nails. It will work much better.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:17 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would not recommend using glue in this application. Use mechanical fasteners, i.e. screws or nails. It will work much better.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:17 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Also, yeah, however you do this it's going to effectively ruin the walls. Unless you see pallet-wood paneling as being the permanent look for this room, I would seek out a different solution. You won't be saving money if you end up having to re-sheetrock the room.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:20 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:20 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
For a recording studio, I understand the wish for some aesthetics, but you're just going to be much better off acoustically with studio foam, which costs less than $2/SF, is easy attached with spray glue, and easily removed when the time comes. And that splintered, beat-up pallet wood look is going to get old pretty quick.
posted by beagle at 6:32 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by beagle at 6:32 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
For affixing the wood to the walls, I think you'd want go with plain old construction adhesive. Brand name "Liquid Nails" in the US, at least.
Speaking to the larger issue, and noting that I'm not an acoustical engineer or a carpenter so I am speaking ex recto... You want to minimize the holes in the walls - you might want to mount some supporting pieces (I'm thinking 1x3's or something) to the base wall, putting them close enough together that they'll work for giving the pallet planks enough surface for the adhesive to adhere. If you put a layer rubber or neoprene or something like that between the 1x3's and the walls you should minimize the vibration transfer to the structure. Then you can slather the support pieces with adhesive and mount the pallet wood.
If you end up needing to add a few nails or screws to the planks - particularly temporarily to support the wood until the adhesive sets, you'll be putting them into the 1x3s, not the walls, so you're still more isolated from the building walls than you otherwise would be. Also, this lets you pull the pallet planks off without having to re-do the whole wall if you want to change the look or the acoustics of it - just a few nail/screw holes to spackle.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:09 AM on March 20, 2016
Speaking to the larger issue, and noting that I'm not an acoustical engineer or a carpenter so I am speaking ex recto... You want to minimize the holes in the walls - you might want to mount some supporting pieces (I'm thinking 1x3's or something) to the base wall, putting them close enough together that they'll work for giving the pallet planks enough surface for the adhesive to adhere. If you put a layer rubber or neoprene or something like that between the 1x3's and the walls you should minimize the vibration transfer to the structure. Then you can slather the support pieces with adhesive and mount the pallet wood.
If you end up needing to add a few nails or screws to the planks - particularly temporarily to support the wood until the adhesive sets, you'll be putting them into the 1x3s, not the walls, so you're still more isolated from the building walls than you otherwise would be. Also, this lets you pull the pallet planks off without having to re-do the whole wall if you want to change the look or the acoustics of it - just a few nail/screw holes to spackle.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:09 AM on March 20, 2016
Best answer: When we did this many years ago, the main goal first being to contain noise, we added a whole new set of walls. First, we put a 2nd layer of sheetrock right on top of the existing layer, then we built a new layer of 2x4 walls against that, stuffed it all with the thickest fiberglass insulation we could afford, then sheet rocked over that. We lost about 12" overall in room size doing this, but when we were done, it was totally effective. With a band playing full tilt inside, it sounded like you average stereo out in the garden & the neighbors could hear absolutely nothing.
Plus, when you start from bare Sheetrock, you are the free to treat the room for its interior acoustics as needed. Sheetrock doesn't sound great, but avoid overly deadening the space. You can still get a lot of separation by judiciously angling amplifiers so that their mics all point away from one another -- I've found that putting a trio at the corners of a triangle facing towards the center works well for a modicum of separation & all the players can hear one another well & it fosters communication. Screw iso booths.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:13 AM on March 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
Plus, when you start from bare Sheetrock, you are the free to treat the room for its interior acoustics as needed. Sheetrock doesn't sound great, but avoid overly deadening the space. You can still get a lot of separation by judiciously angling amplifiers so that their mics all point away from one another -- I've found that putting a trio at the corners of a triangle facing towards the center works well for a modicum of separation & all the players can hear one another well & it fosters communication. Screw iso booths.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:13 AM on March 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
If it comes down to nails (or screws) vs glue, nailholes are infinitely easier to cleanly patch in drywall than patching crumbling sections of drywall and its paper covering that pull off when removing glued-on things.
posted by BillMcMurdo at 7:51 AM on March 20, 2016
posted by BillMcMurdo at 7:51 AM on March 20, 2016
Best answer: Two things I learned when making a room divider from recycled pallets:
1. They're a bitch to pull apart. Consider how many nails you're going to pull. Good tips on removing them here.
2. Often pallet wood is fumigated with chemicals to prevent the spread of pathogens. Here's a handy guide to the stamps you may encounter.
posted by sixpack at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
1. They're a bitch to pull apart. Consider how many nails you're going to pull. Good tips on removing them here.
2. Often pallet wood is fumigated with chemicals to prevent the spread of pathogens. Here's a handy guide to the stamps you may encounter.
posted by sixpack at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would not want pallet wood on the interior walls of an enclosed space where I'll be spending lots of time for just the reason sixpack mentions (nasty chemicals). Wood is cheap enough to get proper interior grade stuff.
I also think you're not going to be happy with the results.
posted by spitbull at 10:57 AM on March 20, 2016
I also think you're not going to be happy with the results.
posted by spitbull at 10:57 AM on March 20, 2016
And to clarify, with coolgap im wondering what you hope a laminated layer of softwood over Sheetrock is going to do for you acoustically. You need an air gap filled with foam, not thicker walls.
Also, what about the ceiling?
Cheap and professional are two words that don't co-occur in the design of recording studios.
posted by spitbull at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2016
Also, what about the ceiling?
Cheap and professional are two words that don't co-occur in the design of recording studios.
posted by spitbull at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2016
Response by poster: thanks for all the replies!
To be clear, I'm definitely not asking for a glue product that will hang a 40 lb. full pallet on the middle of a sheetrock wall, though it one exists, I definitely want to know about it! I should have specified that I'm talking about stripping off the boards to reclaim the wood. It looks like Liquid Nails would probably work just fine.
I didn't want to bog down the question with a bunch of details about the actual studio wall design, since the pallet wall seems like a pretty common home DIY project, but to be clear, the reclaimed wood wouldn't act as a sound barrier, per se. As some of you recommended, I'm definitely doing two 2x4 walls with an air gap and insulation (Roxul, mineral wool). The sheetrock going on top will actually be double layers sandwiching a vinyl sound deadening product (this I'll either make or purchase pre-made QuietRock), and the layers wont directly affix to the studs, rather, these clip products with a rubber layer that buffers the sheetrock and the studs. Gaps will be left between the floor and the wall sheetrock, and where perpendicular walls meet, which will be filled with acoustic caulk. Unless I do something tragically wrong, I'm expecting pretty substantial sound control from all that.
But that's just trying to keep sound inside the live room. Probably most important to this is making GOOD sound in the live room. That requires both absorption and diffusion. Absorption is placing silk/burlap wrapped mineral wool panels and movable baffles, or just straight up Auralex (to clarify, this is absorption of flutter echo and such, not a sound barrier). For diffusion, I can DIY some skyline panels pretty easily. A good ratio of room dimension (and non parallel walls if possible since I'm framing new ones anyway), bass traps in the corners, and absorption/diffusion on the ceiling and on the walls where needed will be the bulk of the sound treatment. However, that leaves a bunch of plain sheetrock wall, which will be, I think, very directionally reflective. Painting it (there's even sound-deadening paint) is definitely an option, but the idea of a pallet wall here was to give it a cool look, and more breakup of sound than a bare wall. It wouldn't have a hugely diffusive effect by itself, but the pallet boards would be different enough in size, depth, and density from each other to scatter sound a little bit where it meets those otherwise bare walls (and it will look cool).
As far as professional, yeah, not compatible with cheap. I meant specifically for the element of it which is mainly decorative. Speaking to Spitbull's other point, I read this on Reddit which is a little scary:
I don't recommend using pallets indoors and it has nothing to do with the HT vs MB debate.
My reason is simple. Having worked in Industrial, Shipping and Insect Control fields I see pallets getting contaminated with all sorts of substances. Accidents and careless workers happen. In Industrial settings I have seen 55 Gallon drums of Trichloroethane sitting on pallets and careless workers spilling it onto the pallet. It soaks into the wood. In some factories pallets sit in a witch's brew of god only knows what chemicals. I've seen automotive antifreeze soaked into pallets, waste oil from diesel engines, Pesticides accidentally dripped onto pallets and in the Food Industry Animal blood soaked into the wood. Sure some of the substances may have evaporated out of the wood and some may have been in quantities too small to matter, but I won't even touch a used pallet without wearing gloves. Also consider the fact that a pallet may travel to hundreds of different places during it's life and it's impossible to tell what chemicals that pallet has been in contact with. Sure you may find it in a place that looks clean and dry, But where was that pallet last week? Or last month? Or last year?
I would never even think of using used pallets indoors. If you want the look of pallets go to a Lumber yard and ask them for Rough Sawn 1 x 4's. It will give you the look without the hazards.
So that gives me pause.
posted by tremspeed at 1:09 PM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
To be clear, I'm definitely not asking for a glue product that will hang a 40 lb. full pallet on the middle of a sheetrock wall, though it one exists, I definitely want to know about it! I should have specified that I'm talking about stripping off the boards to reclaim the wood. It looks like Liquid Nails would probably work just fine.
I didn't want to bog down the question with a bunch of details about the actual studio wall design, since the pallet wall seems like a pretty common home DIY project, but to be clear, the reclaimed wood wouldn't act as a sound barrier, per se. As some of you recommended, I'm definitely doing two 2x4 walls with an air gap and insulation (Roxul, mineral wool). The sheetrock going on top will actually be double layers sandwiching a vinyl sound deadening product (this I'll either make or purchase pre-made QuietRock), and the layers wont directly affix to the studs, rather, these clip products with a rubber layer that buffers the sheetrock and the studs. Gaps will be left between the floor and the wall sheetrock, and where perpendicular walls meet, which will be filled with acoustic caulk. Unless I do something tragically wrong, I'm expecting pretty substantial sound control from all that.
But that's just trying to keep sound inside the live room. Probably most important to this is making GOOD sound in the live room. That requires both absorption and diffusion. Absorption is placing silk/burlap wrapped mineral wool panels and movable baffles, or just straight up Auralex (to clarify, this is absorption of flutter echo and such, not a sound barrier). For diffusion, I can DIY some skyline panels pretty easily. A good ratio of room dimension (and non parallel walls if possible since I'm framing new ones anyway), bass traps in the corners, and absorption/diffusion on the ceiling and on the walls where needed will be the bulk of the sound treatment. However, that leaves a bunch of plain sheetrock wall, which will be, I think, very directionally reflective. Painting it (there's even sound-deadening paint) is definitely an option, but the idea of a pallet wall here was to give it a cool look, and more breakup of sound than a bare wall. It wouldn't have a hugely diffusive effect by itself, but the pallet boards would be different enough in size, depth, and density from each other to scatter sound a little bit where it meets those otherwise bare walls (and it will look cool).
As far as professional, yeah, not compatible with cheap. I meant specifically for the element of it which is mainly decorative. Speaking to Spitbull's other point, I read this on Reddit which is a little scary:
I don't recommend using pallets indoors and it has nothing to do with the HT vs MB debate.
My reason is simple. Having worked in Industrial, Shipping and Insect Control fields I see pallets getting contaminated with all sorts of substances. Accidents and careless workers happen. In Industrial settings I have seen 55 Gallon drums of Trichloroethane sitting on pallets and careless workers spilling it onto the pallet. It soaks into the wood. In some factories pallets sit in a witch's brew of god only knows what chemicals. I've seen automotive antifreeze soaked into pallets, waste oil from diesel engines, Pesticides accidentally dripped onto pallets and in the Food Industry Animal blood soaked into the wood. Sure some of the substances may have evaporated out of the wood and some may have been in quantities too small to matter, but I won't even touch a used pallet without wearing gloves. Also consider the fact that a pallet may travel to hundreds of different places during it's life and it's impossible to tell what chemicals that pallet has been in contact with. Sure you may find it in a place that looks clean and dry, But where was that pallet last week? Or last month? Or last year?
I would never even think of using used pallets indoors. If you want the look of pallets go to a Lumber yard and ask them for Rough Sawn 1 x 4's. It will give you the look without the hazards.
So that gives me pause.
posted by tremspeed at 1:09 PM on March 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you do end up using an adhesive and are still worried about about keeping the wood in place you might try vertically mounted furring strips or batten boards spaced every few feet over the pallet wood. These would still require screws but you'd need far less screws (at the top and bottom; and maybe the middle) and they could help hold the pallet wood in place. if the reason holes are a concern is for conducting sound then the screw holes in the furring/battens could be covered with a thin strip of the same wood or other trim glued horizontally as in crown molding and baseboards.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 2:36 PM on March 20, 2016
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 2:36 PM on March 20, 2016
Best answer: I think this is such an interesting question. I have no idea what the answer is, but it tickled my fancy and I got to googling and I happened across these links and thought I would share:
Pallet Wood Walls (on Pinterest)
No-Nail Wall Paneling Install
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 2:42 PM on March 20, 2016
Pallet Wood Walls (on Pinterest)
No-Nail Wall Paneling Install
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 2:42 PM on March 20, 2016
Once upon a time, we were called upon to create a "studio space" in the basement of a house. Budget = $0. So we found a bunch of used flat egg cartons (like these) and stapled them to
the wall studs. We also added carpet samples cut to fit.
posted by Lynsey at 12:32 PM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
the wall studs. We also added carpet samples cut to fit.
posted by Lynsey at 12:32 PM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Incidentally, I have friends that salvage some pretty sweet exotic hardwoods from pallets.
posted by humboldt32 at 1:34 AM on March 20, 2016