Broken water heater and incompetent, lazy apartment management
March 10, 2016 7:03 PM   Subscribe

A week ago our upstairs neighbor's water heater started raining water down into our bathroom, hallway and kitchen. Miraculously, there was no personal property damage. But my apartment manager, the owner of the complex and the maintenance crew are being very laissez-faire in their approach to repair and don't want to do mold testing. What can I say or do to get them to take this situation seriously?

Location: Gresham, OR, US. (Immediately adjacent to Portland and we're within the boundaries of Multnomah county.)

First, we didn't have renter's insurance when it happened (I know, I know), though that has since been remedied. I'm not sure if they'd be willing to do anything since it was related to an incident that happened before we were policyholders.

Despite everything I've read and everyone I've talked to, my apartment manager is somehow convinced that water heaters don't need to be replaced every 10 to 15 years and that the usual thing is to just wait until they go into failure mode and deal with the situation then. (My neighbor's water heater was 20+ years old when it went haywire last week.) What evidence can I give her that, no, this is not the normal state of affairs and that if everyone did this, they'd all be living in soggy, moldy dwellings all the time?

I asked about testing for mold since there was a pool of standing water sitting on the top of the ceiling drywall over my tub for over a week. (I only know this because a maintenance guy removed the vent fan from the bathroom and I thought it would be a good idea to stick a camera up there to document any possible problems.) Her face when I said this was like someone force-fed her a lemon. What can I say or do to get them to pay for mold testing?

My upstairs neighbor actually had less water in her apartment and their lazy "remove the water and dry it out" plan will probably work for her. But since it's possible it came down the interior of our walls as well as through our bathroom vent and light fixtures in the hallway and kitchen, I feel like the best way to protect our health is to get a mold testing company to come and check things to be sure. Wouldn't the complex's insurance want them to do that as well?

The owner of the complex came by yesterday and was extremely unprofessional. He was doing a job interview for a maintenance candidate WHILE trying to inspect my apartment for water damage. He kept randomly holding up a water meter to our walls and ignoring me every time I tried to ask him a question or tell him where the water had been leaking through. (Oh, and by the way, our walls are painted with latex paint, which I've since read needs to be pierced through to get an accurate reading. So he doesn't clearly doesn't know what he's doing but thinks he's qualified to make decisions about repairs. Ugh.)

Honestly, I know the best answer is DTMFA because this mickey mouse outfit is like the suburban PNW version of a slumlord. But until that's possible, how can I get them to stop pawning me off/lying to me (either by omission or overtly), take this situation seriously and do what needs to be done?
posted by Arrrgyle to Home & Garden (14 answers total)
 
Call a lawyer; preferably one who works pro bono on tenants' rights cases. Either that or move out.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 7:10 PM on March 10, 2016


my apartment manager is somehow convinced that water heaters don't need to be replaced every 10 to 15 years and that the usual thing is to just wait until they go into failure mode and deal with the situation then... What evidence can I give her that, no, this is not the normal state of affairs

IME, it is the normal state of affairs. I don't think I've ever known someone to replace a functioning water heater just because it's approaching the end of its guesstimated service life.

Mold testing in situations like this isn't standard either, and it's easy to find reputable (e.g. government) sources that cast doubt on its utility in most circumstances.
posted by jon1270 at 8:46 PM on March 10, 2016 [9 favorites]


I agree - in my experience it's normal to wait until a water heater rusts through before replacing it. If you keep up on the anode rod replacements, this can be way more than 10 years. If you don't, I guess it still can be, because who bothers? When installed in a place where this eventual leaking will cause damage (somewhere other than on a concrete floor with a drain) you sometimes see them installed in a tray/bucket thing with a drain hose leading somewhere safe. It sounds like you could benefit from this setup. If any, that's the battle I think you should pick.
posted by fritley at 9:01 PM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think unfortunately you have a higher standard than you'll find from most property management companies (and homeowners, when it comes down to it).

Minor water damage so rarely results in actionable mold, and mold testing is mostly a scam (and not, in any case, what renter's insurance is for - it covers any of your belongings that might be ruined by a leak). If you are that concerned you could pay out of pocket for it.

You could talk to a lawyer, but without any damage to your things you'd be hard-pressed to get one to take your case. You want management to "do what needs to be done" but legally they've done it if there's not still an active leak still. There's not much else to do. If you can prove that the place is still measurably wet in 20-30 days you might be able to get some interest from the health department (in 6-8 months).
posted by Lyn Never at 9:25 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]


Agreed, leaving water heaters until failure is totally normal. In situations were water damage is likely, you use a drain pan to capture any leaks.

Mold testing is not likely to be helpful unless you find actual mold. Can you have a look and see if that area has dried out and if there is any mold? I wouldn't expect the average landlord to pay for mold testing unless there was verifiable mold (and even then, it might be cheaper just to tear out the drywall and replace).
posted by ssg at 9:29 PM on March 10, 2016


I've never heard of anyone replacing operating water heaters. Waiting until they die and then replacing is the norm where I live. If you're lucky someone notices the leak early on and if you're unlucky, water drips down to your neighbour. But even then it's basically cosmetic damage. It's not an endless source of water unless the person was away and the luck was really bad.

Mold testing isn't a thing here either.
posted by kitten magic at 9:29 PM on March 10, 2016


You can't see or smell any mold and you're not having any symptoms of mold exposure. Relax.
posted by metasarah at 12:34 AM on March 11, 2016


Response by poster: Let me start off by saying that this apartment complex has never done a single bit of maintenance on these water heaters. Nor have they ever done an inspection. They have no clue what condition they're in and this is the second time this has happened in this part of the building in the last 3 years. There has been no annual flushing of the water heaters, never a single inspection in the 6 years I've lived here. They have not replaced the anode in my water heater, not ever. Leaving these things to sit for 20 years with zero maintenance is not what I would call responsible landlording. The fact that they have done so and are now throwing their hands up like there was nothing to be done is pretty fucking galling. So do take that into account when you answer.

I also am not willing to believe that it's preferable to allow a water heater to flood a living space rather than replacing it on a schedule commensurate with its deterioration. If you would personally rather allow your old water heater to leak into your living space rather than replace it when it gets old, more power to you. But there are plenty of reputable Google search results that will tell you that you're wrong.

Also, I did mention that the water came in through my walls, ceiling and light fixtures and there was a large pool of water sitting on the top of my shower's ceiling for over a week. It was directly on the drywall. The problem is that there's not necessarily mold now, but there's likely to be mold in the future due to the severity of the water exposure to the drywall. They don't seem willing to remove the soaked drywall, which is the main problem that I can see. The drywall was wet for longer than 48 hours, and they were in fact advised to remove it by the restoration specialist who came to measure how wet the ceilings were. He was here 72 hours after the flooding and the drywall in the bathroom, hallway and kitchen was still setting off his pronged water meter. Maybe I should have included that part in the original question, sorry.

Anyway, I'm not going to threadsit here but if you want to answer the question, please read the whole story and this addendum before you tell me to relax and that they did everything they were supposed to do.
posted by Arrrgyle at 2:47 AM on March 11, 2016


I googled and the only sites I see that recommend replacing a functioning water heater are sites that would/could make money off of people doing so. If the water heater was competently installed, it will be sitting in a drip pan that is plumbed to an exit (ours is plumbed to the sidewalk outside our side door, for example). I don't think it's odd or incompetent to wait to replace them.

Regarding the moisture, yes, they should be doing more. Getting fans in there and drying out the area is vital. You can do some of this yourself too. Would I as a tenant be irritated that they weren't jumping to get the place dry? Yes. Maybe they're being a bit lazy about it, sure. BUT, mold testing this early in the game is kind of pointless 72 hours is a very short period of time. Dry everything out. Visually inspect it after its dry. If you see something suspicious, THEN document and ask for testing. You're jumping the gun at this point.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 3:08 AM on March 11, 2016 [3 favorites]


I should add that the restoration company would make money off replacement which is likely why they pushed replacement.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 3:19 AM on March 11, 2016


None of the things you describe in the first paragraph of your update are things any of my landlords have done either. Nor my parents in houses we owned. My original answer assumes the heater is installed and then left til it dies. That said, it was unfortunate the upstairs neighbour let so much water leak. I've seen quite a few die and it's not like they explode, it's a fairly small leak and should be noticeable or go into a drip tray.

Your damage is a lot worse than anything I've heard of though. Maybe our apartment building construction is different. I've only had drywall in houses.

Still, presumably you have central heating on given the time of year? The humidity would be quite low in the house and that would help it dry out. And if it dries soon there won't be mold. If it stays damp then that suggests there's an ongoing leak or the water hasn't drained and that would need addressing. Mold testing is still way down the to do list.
posted by kitten magic at 3:54 AM on March 11, 2016


I work with landlords on a professional basis. Your landlords' behavior is completely typical and not in any way unusual in the US.

On the scale of "typical landlord behavior" I would actually class this under benign neglect. They actually replaced the water heater and took readings, which puts them several steps ahead of the sort of landlords who would, say, leave the broken water heater. Or leave a live wire hanging over the stove when they removed a stove fan. Or remove asbestos from a living space with zero training or safety controls. (Should any of those things happen? Obviously no. But that's a different question.)

Normally I'd suggest a dehumidifier as one step you can take, but if you've got latex paint and the water damage was on the interior of the walls, I suspect the utility would be limited. You would still give it a try, though.

If you desire a higher level of care from the people who manage your apartment complex, you may need to bite the proverbial bullet and consider purchasing a house.
posted by pie ninja at 4:15 AM on March 11, 2016 [5 favorites]


I read the whole story. I've been a renter for most of 25 years, did make-ready work for a family member who owned rental properties when I was in college, owned a house for a short period of time including a couple of years when I rented that property out.

Your experience reflects reality. Your expectations do not.

My grandfather, who was the most meticulous human being I have ever met or hope to meet in my life, did not drain his water heater every year. (Did he inspect it with a flashlight weekly, probably precisely at 7:43 am every Thursday morning until he was unable to walk? Probably.)

I have also seen a lot of leaks in my life from sinks and upstairs bathrooms and dishwashers and washing machines and rain as well as water heaters, and I have not seen a lot of drywall replacement, not even from homeowners, and not in two apartments where the leak has been enough to make a bubble in my ceiling paint. The only time I've seen it done was if the drywall actually tore or collapsed, or if the water was sewage or floodwater that came up from the ground (as in, had sewage in it, rather than rainwater coming down through the house). Drywall replacement tends to turn into a whole-room project, and once you start you can't stop.

Per (maybe) the only not-crooked house inspector I've ever met, evidence of water damage like you describe, if the drywall is dry, isn't even enough to stop an FHA-funded sale. It's literally less significant than a nailed-shut window. (That same person would definitely put a moisture meter through the wall, if they could get away with it, because still being wet after the fact would be a show-stopper for most lenders.)

It is very frustrating, but you are experiencing a typical response that is well within legal and customary. Buying a home (probably a freestanding one, as condo leak issues are apparently a complete nightmare) is probably the only way to meet the standards you want.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:47 AM on March 11, 2016 [4 favorites]


If you think you're actually experiencing a code violation, in most cities you can call 311 to get directed to the right department, or check the city website for the number.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:52 AM on March 11, 2016


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