Crosscut saw versus a chainsaw
March 3, 2016 8:16 AM Subscribe
A tree fell on our house the day before yesterday. It just grazed the corner, so there is not too much damage. The tree is probably 24 inches in diameter at the thickest parts. I have a chainsaw, but I would prefer something safer.
The tree is mostly resting on the ground now. It initially got hung up on a power line to our house, but the power company fixed that. To cut the tree up, I am considering purchasing a two-person crosscut saw, like you see in old Paul Bunyan cartoons. I am pretty physically fit and can find other fit people to help me operate the saw. Is this a good choice over the chainsaw, particularly with regards to safety? Does anyone on AskMe have experience using such a saw? I have used regular handsaws to cut boards before, but I am wondering if there might be some unknown, e.g. it takes a bunch of practice to operate a crosscut saw on a log, etc. PS - I live in the city, so my neighbors won't be thrilled with all day chainsaw use, either.
The tree is mostly resting on the ground now. It initially got hung up on a power line to our house, but the power company fixed that. To cut the tree up, I am considering purchasing a two-person crosscut saw, like you see in old Paul Bunyan cartoons. I am pretty physically fit and can find other fit people to help me operate the saw. Is this a good choice over the chainsaw, particularly with regards to safety? Does anyone on AskMe have experience using such a saw? I have used regular handsaws to cut boards before, but I am wondering if there might be some unknown, e.g. it takes a bunch of practice to operate a crosscut saw on a log, etc. PS - I live in the city, so my neighbors won't be thrilled with all day chainsaw use, either.
I would call a tree service. But if you really want to DIY, try calling an equipment rental company like Taylor Rental. They can advise you on the best tool and you wouldn't have to buy a tool you might not use again.
posted by epanalepsis at 8:24 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by epanalepsis at 8:24 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have never used a two person crosscut saw, but I have used a chainsaw. Many times. I found the chainsaw very safe once I took the appropriate precautions. It depends on what you wear, how you start it, goggles, positioning, etc.
posted by AugustWest at 8:25 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 8:25 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Before doing this, check on facebook and google to see if you have a local turners group. My dad has gotten back into lathe work recently as a hobby and would be SO HAPPY to come help you deal with your tree problem to get a few big hunks of free 24" diameter wood. Unfortunately my dad doesn't live where you live, but I'm sure there are others like him near you.
posted by phunniemee at 8:25 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:25 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Like for instance, here's a group just outside of Charlotte. Shoot an email over to them and ask!
posted by phunniemee at 8:28 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:28 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have used a two person crosscut saw. There's more skill involved than just sawing back and forth. You have to set wedges to keep the cut from binding. You need a saw that's twice as long as the diameter of the logs you're cutting, so that the saw can clear the sawdust from the cut. Depending on how the logs are lay, you may want to underbuck them, which is way more dangerous than approaching them from the top. I sawed with under the supervision of someone who collects antique saws, and hikes all over CA with his saws, clearing trails. Without his guidance and his really nice and very well maintained saws, something that took a really really long time would have taken three times as long.
You probably CAN do this, but I don't think it's any safer than the chainsaw, TBQH.
posted by mollymayhem at 8:48 AM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
You probably CAN do this, but I don't think it's any safer than the chainsaw, TBQH.
posted by mollymayhem at 8:48 AM on March 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I believe what you're looking for is called a bucking saw. Just like hand saws, they work great when sharpened properly but are horribly inefficient when NOT sharpened properly.
If you look on Craigslist or equivalent, there'll be tons of guys with a truck and a chainsaw who'd take it away quickly and cheaply, on a moment's notice.
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:49 AM on March 3, 2016
If you look on Craigslist or equivalent, there'll be tons of guys with a truck and a chainsaw who'd take it away quickly and cheaply, on a moment's notice.
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:49 AM on March 3, 2016
Just as a practical matter, consider the difficulty of using a two-person cross-cut sawing motion on a tree which is down on the ground. You will need to be able to roll/rotate the tree to cut through the bottom portion.
posted by uncaken at 8:51 AM on March 3, 2016
posted by uncaken at 8:51 AM on March 3, 2016
A two-person crosscut saw is not necessarily safer than a chainsaw if you've never used one before. They are both dangerous if used incorrectly or inappropriately.
posted by zennie at 8:51 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zennie at 8:51 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
They're quieter all right, but the people who used them professionally had another name for those old crosscut saws: misery whips.
(linked video shows a one-person saw.)
posted by jamjam at 8:52 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
(linked video shows a one-person saw.)
posted by jamjam at 8:52 AM on March 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you have homeowner's insurance, it will probably pay for the tree service, as well as the damage to your house.
If you are used to doing smaller cutting jobs with a chainsaw, using it on a 24" tree is a different story. On the other hand, cutting a 24" log into pieces with a two-man saw is a hell of a lot of work, especially if it's a hardwood tree.
posted by beagle at 9:25 AM on March 3, 2016
If you are used to doing smaller cutting jobs with a chainsaw, using it on a 24" tree is a different story. On the other hand, cutting a 24" log into pieces with a two-man saw is a hell of a lot of work, especially if it's a hardwood tree.
posted by beagle at 9:25 AM on March 3, 2016
Couple problems:
If there's tension in the wood (and with a fallen tree that's not previously been freed of branches, there will be), even a crosscut saw won't protect you from an occasional healthy smack in the face if things go awry. Funny fails over at Youtube will give you an idea of how stubborn medium-sized branches can be.
For a strong and large enough chainsaw, 24 inches isn't all that dramatic, but for inexperienced hand sawing, it's going to be an endless chore. Your neighbours will probably thank you for getting the job done fast and loud rather than drawn out over weeks, seesawing, accompanied with swearing and yelling. You'd also have to learn how to sharpen a crosscut saw properly (in cartoons, they're always sharp, from antique markets, they're not)
As others said, even if your skills with the chainsaw are okay, a professional tree service will do it so much faster, and they have got insurance if anything should happen. I've seen trees of that thickness been cut up in an hour.
(Disclaimer: I totally would use my chainsaw, but then, I'm used to my chainsaw and to fallen trees of that size, the chain is sharp, the saw well maintained, I have protective gear, etc.)
posted by Namlit at 9:45 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
If there's tension in the wood (and with a fallen tree that's not previously been freed of branches, there will be), even a crosscut saw won't protect you from an occasional healthy smack in the face if things go awry. Funny fails over at Youtube will give you an idea of how stubborn medium-sized branches can be.
For a strong and large enough chainsaw, 24 inches isn't all that dramatic, but for inexperienced hand sawing, it's going to be an endless chore. Your neighbours will probably thank you for getting the job done fast and loud rather than drawn out over weeks, seesawing, accompanied with swearing and yelling. You'd also have to learn how to sharpen a crosscut saw properly (in cartoons, they're always sharp, from antique markets, they're not)
As others said, even if your skills with the chainsaw are okay, a professional tree service will do it so much faster, and they have got insurance if anything should happen. I've seen trees of that thickness been cut up in an hour.
(Disclaimer: I totally would use my chainsaw, but then, I'm used to my chainsaw and to fallen trees of that size, the chain is sharp, the saw well maintained, I have protective gear, etc.)
posted by Namlit at 9:45 AM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have used a bow saw, a chainsaw, and have called a tree service. For a big tree, call a pro. It may be cheaper if you have the leave the big pieces stacked on your property. I have a couple such decaying stacks. Depending on the kind of wood, it turns to mulch in 20-30 years.
Mostly I wanted to point out that sawing up a 24 inch log does not yield firewood. For that, you have to split it down to size. And if it not a good species of tree, it won't burn well anyway.
posted by SemiSalt at 9:55 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mostly I wanted to point out that sawing up a 24 inch log does not yield firewood. For that, you have to split it down to size. And if it not a good species of tree, it won't burn well anyway.
posted by SemiSalt at 9:55 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
A two foot tree can do a lot of damage, even on the ground. You need to know where it's supported and how it mght move as you remove pieces. Trees on the ground can roll and pitch quite suddenly as the weight comes off. You don't just need a saw, you need bracing, blocking, cordage/chains and likely a few come-alongs to do this safely.
If you know how to handle this, or can get someone who has done this before safely, you may be fine. But a 24"-er isn't a great place to be learning tree removal as a starting place. I'd call a pro. They should be done in a few hours.
posted by bonehead at 10:03 AM on March 3, 2016
If you know how to handle this, or can get someone who has done this before safely, you may be fine. But a 24"-er isn't a great place to be learning tree removal as a starting place. I'd call a pro. They should be done in a few hours.
posted by bonehead at 10:03 AM on March 3, 2016
You'll also want a small loader/tractor or skidsteer for this too, right? A 6 foot length of 24" dia oak weighs near enough to 1000 pounds. It's really hard to lift that by hand, even with a lot of folks.
posted by bonehead at 10:46 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bonehead at 10:46 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have used a two-person crosscut saw to cut up a tree of about that size. As others have already pointed out, there are dangers in cutting up a down tree that have nothing to do with the saw. About the saw itself, a couple of things you should know:
If you buy a new one, it will probably be quite sharp. However, the teeth will probably have no set, and the set of the teeth is what keeps the saw from binding and the kerf from filling with sawdust. I learned this only after I had cut up the tree. To set the teeth, you'll need to find an old saw set of sufficient size, or do it with a hammer and anvil. It's a bit of an art, so count on that taking you a couple of hours after you have the tools.
If the tree is down, it's dug into the ground in places. And there may be embedded nails and wire and whatnot. Which is to say that the saw will get dull, so you'd better have a good sharp file on hand and know how to use it. And use it often.
Even with the saw properly set up, it's a lot of work, and it will use muscles you aren't used to using.
If you can handle those three things and you know enough about log handling to not accidentally roll it, and to not to get your saw stuck in the trunk, go for it. I'd be willing to bet it will take longer than a day to do the whole tree.
posted by bricoleur at 10:58 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you buy a new one, it will probably be quite sharp. However, the teeth will probably have no set, and the set of the teeth is what keeps the saw from binding and the kerf from filling with sawdust. I learned this only after I had cut up the tree. To set the teeth, you'll need to find an old saw set of sufficient size, or do it with a hammer and anvil. It's a bit of an art, so count on that taking you a couple of hours after you have the tools.
If the tree is down, it's dug into the ground in places. And there may be embedded nails and wire and whatnot. Which is to say that the saw will get dull, so you'd better have a good sharp file on hand and know how to use it. And use it often.
Even with the saw properly set up, it's a lot of work, and it will use muscles you aren't used to using.
If you can handle those three things and you know enough about log handling to not accidentally roll it, and to not to get your saw stuck in the trunk, go for it. I'd be willing to bet it will take longer than a day to do the whole tree.
posted by bricoleur at 10:58 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree that it will take forever to do by hand. If you don't want to use a tree service, do you have any buddies who are more experienced with a chainsaw? I mean, you were going to have to enlist help to use the handsaw, so why not get help with this?
posted by purple_bird at 11:47 AM on March 3, 2016
posted by purple_bird at 11:47 AM on March 3, 2016
You might check for wood working groups in your area. There may folks who would be delighted to buck up and haul the wood for you, depending on what kind of tree it is. If you go for the DIY having a Peavy can be really helpful. A tool rental in your area should have one. Chainsaws would be much better than the aptly named 'misery whip'. Whoever cuts the tree will have to pay attention to where the stresses are - tension verses compression forces.
posted by X4ster at 12:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by X4ster at 12:22 PM on March 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hello fellow Charlottean! We've used Rushtons Tree Service out of Lincolnton, NC twice now and had great experiences both times. A+ on the BBB website and very reasonably priced. You can have them section the tree and take the smaller branches to the road for city pickup and then craigslist the sections rather than have them haul it off, or split it yourself for firewood.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 1:45 PM on March 3, 2016
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 1:45 PM on March 3, 2016
Nthing that you should get a tree service. Recently I've been taking apart a somewhat smaller (but still big) ash tree that fell on my parents' fence. (I'm breaking it up for firewood.) I've been using a chainsaw, and cutting the tree up into manageable sections and carting it away was a significant job, even with a friend. It didn't feel dangerous, but it felt like it could've been if I'd done it wrong. I wouldn't have attacked the project if I weren't already comfortable with a chainsaw.
I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would have been to try and hand-saw it. As in I literally can't, because I don't even know what all is involved. How often do you have to sharpen a bucksaw? How do you properly sharpen it anyway? How do you get a good rhythm going? What do you do if the tree binds on the saw? I do know that it would have easily taken ten times as long to do, and that's a conservative estimate.
Unless you and a friend really want to hand-saw this tree just for the sake of doing it, get an arborist to take care of it for you. Even then, have one on speed-dial for when you inevitably get sick to the gills of the whole thing and want to throw your blistered and bleeding hands up in surrender.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:43 PM on March 3, 2016
I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would have been to try and hand-saw it. As in I literally can't, because I don't even know what all is involved. How often do you have to sharpen a bucksaw? How do you properly sharpen it anyway? How do you get a good rhythm going? What do you do if the tree binds on the saw? I do know that it would have easily taken ten times as long to do, and that's a conservative estimate.
Unless you and a friend really want to hand-saw this tree just for the sake of doing it, get an arborist to take care of it for you. Even then, have one on speed-dial for when you inevitably get sick to the gills of the whole thing and want to throw your blistered and bleeding hands up in surrender.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:43 PM on March 3, 2016
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posted by mareli at 8:23 AM on March 3, 2016