Help me get along with my bf's perfectly decent family
February 28, 2016 9:51 AM Subscribe
I (F, early 30s) have been together with my bf (mid 30s) for 2 years and have spent many a weekend together with his family. They are always really nice and welcoming to me and yet I still don't feel comfortable around them because of: difference in family background (his family is extremely close-knit and generally happy, mine is a painful emotional mess), my own tendency to feel like an outsider, my not really liking who he is when around his family, and my not-entirely-baseless insecurity about him always choosing his family over me (more explanation about the last two inside).
My questions:
1. How can I learn to be more comfortable around his family? I am interested mainly in advice on how I can manage my insecurity about him always choosing his family over me.
2. Is there any point of doing (1) at all or are we just incompatible?
I believe that a good relationship consists of two people who are generally happier together than apart. This is true in my relationship, except when we are together with his family. I usually end up being unhappy, he can sense it and I am sure he does not find it pleasant to have a gf who gets grumpy so often. In the past I tried to limit my contact with his family and basically insisted on having as much time as possible just for the two of us. It did not always work and I still ended up spending quite a lot of time with his family. My bf and I meet only over the weekend and most of the times I had to spend one weekend day with his family. We are both Asians who still live in Asia and he still lives with his parents so this much family time is probably not unexpected, but I am not sure if it is sustainable for me.
Things get a whole lot more complicated recently since one of his parents passed away earlier this year and he has an upcoming exam in a couple of months for his part-time degree course so the only way I can spend time with him is at his house, with his family. It is a really difficult time for him and I have tried to be as supportive as possible. Rationally I can understand that his family and his study should be his priority right now but I still feel resentful because I feel that even previously I was never his priority.
Last year, there were a couple of times that he cancelled major plans with me after having agreed to them just because his family wanted to spend time with him or wanted him to study. I totally understand that his study is important but to me it felt like he was just blindly following what his family wanted without any regards for what I wanted. In one instance, he had agreed to visit my hometown with me (2 hours flight away from where we live) and he cancelled because his parents wanted him to study and were worried over his safety (I come from a developing country with some history of terrorist attacks). I was extremely upset over it. At that point of time his exam was still half a year away, surely he could afford to spend a few days away to see my family, and there was no travel warning for my country so I feel that their fear was unwarranted. I have another trip coming up at the end of this year for a close friend's wedding. I have asked him to come and he hemmed and hawed. He said he would consider which I took as the code word for "I'll ask my family about it and I won't go if they say no". It will be just a short weekend trip and he will not even need to take any leave from work. I am expecting him to say no. It makes me sad that I am in a relationship where I don't find it surprising if my partner refuses to accompany me for no good reason. I wish I were in a relationship with someone who would say yes without hesitation, someone who could make a decision for himself about something that is as insignificant as a weekend trip.
The thing is, his family is really nice. They are friendly to me, they asked me questions about myself, and they are well educated people who have lots of interesting stories and opinion. It feels worse that I have problem about having to spend time with a bunch of nice people. However, they can be quite critical to my bf. Whenever I am with them I see my bf as someone who can't do anything right, he can't drive right, he made the wrong comments, he can't be trusted to manage his own time, etc. I hate seeing him in that light. I am not sure if I am blinded by love or something, I know there are things about him that are weird or annoying and maybe he can try to manage his time better but I don't think he's that bad. I wish they would give him more space to do things his own way. I wish that they would just leave him to figure things out for himself and make his own mistakes instead of constantly getting involved and telling him what to do. I think he is doing fine. I mean, sure he may not be as successful as his younger sibling in terms of education and career but I think he is doing just fine and he is actually working towards the possibility of doing something that he loves with his part-time study.
Lately, I have also been feeling insecure about our future. I actually want to be engaged by now since I think 2 years is reasonably enough time to get to know each other. I never mentioned this explicitly to my bf because I don't think I'll get the answer that I am hoping for. He always talked about getting married and having a baby, etc but is always very hesitant about making any concrete plan. He always said that we can consider it when things are more settled. I am currently writing my PhD thesis and he said he would only consider marrying me once I graduate and get a stable job. I can understand this rationally, but it makes me feel that he is not willing to support me through uncertainties and will only marry me if he knows he does not need to take care of me. Not that I ever intend on depending on him financially, but I thought I would appreciate a more reassuring response. Few months ago I tried to sit down with him to calculate how much money we need if we want to buy a house. He was hesitant at first but did it with me anyway. Afterwards he said that it was a good thing to do but he also mentioned a couple of times that we were not in a rush for anything and that what we had done was just an exercise out of curiosity.
My bf is a genuinely kind person. He has changed some parts of me for the better and has always been very patient in dealing with all my weird insecurities. I love him. The thought of one day being able to come home to him every day still fills my heart with warmth and joy but I am not sure if it actually is a good idea in reality. If I want to continue this relationship, I know that I need to change my feeling and behavior towards his family. But at the same time I am also wondering if we are just incompatible and if I am just setting myself up for a life time of being someone's second priority.
So to repeat my questions:
1. How can I learn to be more comfortable around his family? I am interested mainly in advice on how I can manage my insecurity about him always choosing his family over me.
2. Is there any point of doing (1) at all or are we just incompatible?
Thank you for reading and thank you in advance for your advice MeFites!
I believe that a good relationship consists of two people who are generally happier together than apart. This is true in my relationship, except when we are together with his family. I usually end up being unhappy, he can sense it and I am sure he does not find it pleasant to have a gf who gets grumpy so often. In the past I tried to limit my contact with his family and basically insisted on having as much time as possible just for the two of us. It did not always work and I still ended up spending quite a lot of time with his family. My bf and I meet only over the weekend and most of the times I had to spend one weekend day with his family. We are both Asians who still live in Asia and he still lives with his parents so this much family time is probably not unexpected, but I am not sure if it is sustainable for me.
Things get a whole lot more complicated recently since one of his parents passed away earlier this year and he has an upcoming exam in a couple of months for his part-time degree course so the only way I can spend time with him is at his house, with his family. It is a really difficult time for him and I have tried to be as supportive as possible. Rationally I can understand that his family and his study should be his priority right now but I still feel resentful because I feel that even previously I was never his priority.
Last year, there were a couple of times that he cancelled major plans with me after having agreed to them just because his family wanted to spend time with him or wanted him to study. I totally understand that his study is important but to me it felt like he was just blindly following what his family wanted without any regards for what I wanted. In one instance, he had agreed to visit my hometown with me (2 hours flight away from where we live) and he cancelled because his parents wanted him to study and were worried over his safety (I come from a developing country with some history of terrorist attacks). I was extremely upset over it. At that point of time his exam was still half a year away, surely he could afford to spend a few days away to see my family, and there was no travel warning for my country so I feel that their fear was unwarranted. I have another trip coming up at the end of this year for a close friend's wedding. I have asked him to come and he hemmed and hawed. He said he would consider which I took as the code word for "I'll ask my family about it and I won't go if they say no". It will be just a short weekend trip and he will not even need to take any leave from work. I am expecting him to say no. It makes me sad that I am in a relationship where I don't find it surprising if my partner refuses to accompany me for no good reason. I wish I were in a relationship with someone who would say yes without hesitation, someone who could make a decision for himself about something that is as insignificant as a weekend trip.
The thing is, his family is really nice. They are friendly to me, they asked me questions about myself, and they are well educated people who have lots of interesting stories and opinion. It feels worse that I have problem about having to spend time with a bunch of nice people. However, they can be quite critical to my bf. Whenever I am with them I see my bf as someone who can't do anything right, he can't drive right, he made the wrong comments, he can't be trusted to manage his own time, etc. I hate seeing him in that light. I am not sure if I am blinded by love or something, I know there are things about him that are weird or annoying and maybe he can try to manage his time better but I don't think he's that bad. I wish they would give him more space to do things his own way. I wish that they would just leave him to figure things out for himself and make his own mistakes instead of constantly getting involved and telling him what to do. I think he is doing fine. I mean, sure he may not be as successful as his younger sibling in terms of education and career but I think he is doing just fine and he is actually working towards the possibility of doing something that he loves with his part-time study.
Lately, I have also been feeling insecure about our future. I actually want to be engaged by now since I think 2 years is reasonably enough time to get to know each other. I never mentioned this explicitly to my bf because I don't think I'll get the answer that I am hoping for. He always talked about getting married and having a baby, etc but is always very hesitant about making any concrete plan. He always said that we can consider it when things are more settled. I am currently writing my PhD thesis and he said he would only consider marrying me once I graduate and get a stable job. I can understand this rationally, but it makes me feel that he is not willing to support me through uncertainties and will only marry me if he knows he does not need to take care of me. Not that I ever intend on depending on him financially, but I thought I would appreciate a more reassuring response. Few months ago I tried to sit down with him to calculate how much money we need if we want to buy a house. He was hesitant at first but did it with me anyway. Afterwards he said that it was a good thing to do but he also mentioned a couple of times that we were not in a rush for anything and that what we had done was just an exercise out of curiosity.
My bf is a genuinely kind person. He has changed some parts of me for the better and has always been very patient in dealing with all my weird insecurities. I love him. The thought of one day being able to come home to him every day still fills my heart with warmth and joy but I am not sure if it actually is a good idea in reality. If I want to continue this relationship, I know that I need to change my feeling and behavior towards his family. But at the same time I am also wondering if we are just incompatible and if I am just setting myself up for a life time of being someone's second priority.
So to repeat my questions:
1. How can I learn to be more comfortable around his family? I am interested mainly in advice on how I can manage my insecurity about him always choosing his family over me.
2. Is there any point of doing (1) at all or are we just incompatible?
Thank you for reading and thank you in advance for your advice MeFites!
Sounds like you guys aren't on the same page. Do you talk about things? This is the kind of stuff you need to tell him and have a serious conversation about. For me this would be too much family time etc and if my bf didn't offer some compromises after a serious discussion I'd be considering if we were compatible. But it sounds like you haven't even really tried discussing these things. Relationships live or die on communication. If you can't talk freely with him perhaps reconsider your choice of mate.
posted by FireFountain at 10:01 AM on February 28, 2016
posted by FireFountain at 10:01 AM on February 28, 2016
Response by poster: We have had discussions about how much family time is acceptable for both of us. He knows that I am not a family person. He does acknowledge and apologize if I have to spend too much time with his family, but I feel that his effort stops there. I feel that he is actually perfectly content with spending every weekend with his family + me at home. However, I have never mentioned to him that I think his family is too critical towards him and that I actually want to be engaged by now.
posted by thecampushippo at 10:12 AM on February 28, 2016
posted by thecampushippo at 10:12 AM on February 28, 2016
Ok with your update I'd say 1) if you want to be engaged that is definitely something you need to talk about with him and 2) if he's not prioritizing you and your needs after you've discussed things, you guys may not be compatible. People don't change all that much usually, you know? How he is now is how it will be most likely. Do you want to spend your life being second to his family? I dated a guy like this and I told myself we'd figure it out and he made attempts at compromise but at the end of the day his family was No. 1 and I was like No. 4 in his priority list. He even flat out told me once after a shouting match that he didn't consider me family enough to get priority. It's kind of the worst to lose years of your life to someone who isn't right for you so talk with him and figure it out. Convey how important these things are to you. If you need more from him then he's willing to give I think you should not settle for him. There are men out there who can give you what you want.
posted by FireFountain at 10:26 AM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by FireFountain at 10:26 AM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Financial independence is key here. I didn't really get a clear sense from the OP but it sounds like he is somewhere on the spectrum from mild financial dependence to total financial dependence.
His family is his job. By this I mean, they give him money based on how well he adheres to their expectations and navigates their emotional whims. They are his bosses, and that is his job. They do not give him "vacation time." This also explains why he is so focused on your finances before marriage. He will need you to support him so he can get away from his family. He sees either your financial independence, or his, as totally crucial, and he is not wrong.
posted by quincunx at 10:30 AM on February 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
His family is his job. By this I mean, they give him money based on how well he adheres to their expectations and navigates their emotional whims. They are his bosses, and that is his job. They do not give him "vacation time." This also explains why he is so focused on your finances before marriage. He will need you to support him so he can get away from his family. He sees either your financial independence, or his, as totally crucial, and he is not wrong.
posted by quincunx at 10:30 AM on February 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
You and your partner need to have a genuine conversation, just the two of you, about your 5 year plans. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Where does he see himself? His answer will be enlightening in terms of his priorities; if he doesn't mention marriage or kids, you'll know he's not really thinking about them right now. You can then ask each other questions about parts of those plans (so if he doesn't mention marriage/kids, ask him why not) and hopefully figure out a joint 5 year plan. If you can't figure out a way to make your plans fit, chances are you're not compatible. This doesn't have to be done in one big conversation, it can be several little ones, but you need to hear his feelings instead of just speculating about them.
It sounds like your partner's family belittles him extensively and he bases his behaviour on what they would want. I would not say that's a happy/healthy dynamic. I would be on edge because that kind of "say mean things but pretend it's for his own good so he can't call it out and pretend we're a perfect family" thing is exactly what made my family so dysfunctional in the first place. Your feelings aren't wrong. (Also I would be very hurt that he cancelled an international flight to your home country!! which I assume was pretty important to you! Like you spend so much time with his family and he can't even VISIT yours? That would make me very sad.)
What is your living situation like? Could he come visit you some weekends instead? (Would he?) You can set limits on how much time you're willing to spend around his family but that might just lead to limiting your time with him; only you can decide how much you are willing to put up with.
posted by buteo at 11:17 AM on February 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
It sounds like your partner's family belittles him extensively and he bases his behaviour on what they would want. I would not say that's a happy/healthy dynamic. I would be on edge because that kind of "say mean things but pretend it's for his own good so he can't call it out and pretend we're a perfect family" thing is exactly what made my family so dysfunctional in the first place. Your feelings aren't wrong. (Also I would be very hurt that he cancelled an international flight to your home country!! which I assume was pretty important to you! Like you spend so much time with his family and he can't even VISIT yours? That would make me very sad.)
What is your living situation like? Could he come visit you some weekends instead? (Would he?) You can set limits on how much time you're willing to spend around his family but that might just lead to limiting your time with him; only you can decide how much you are willing to put up with.
posted by buteo at 11:17 AM on February 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I actually want to be engaged by now since I think 2 years is reasonably enough time to get to know each other.
I think you are correct - 2 years is reasonably enough time to get to know each other - and to determine whether you are compatible. So after 2 years, you know him to be a person who is not independent of his family and who does not prioritize you or your relationship.* Your 2 years were well spent learning that. Now you can move on to find someone who wants the same things you want, and travel/visit family/attend weddings/buy a house with/get engaged to that person.
*This is who he is, not his current circumstances. His priorities are unlikely to change after his exams, after he has grieved his dead parent, or even after he moves out of his family's home. It will then be his career, the second parent dying, etc.
posted by headnsouth at 11:38 AM on February 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
I think you are correct - 2 years is reasonably enough time to get to know each other - and to determine whether you are compatible. So after 2 years, you know him to be a person who is not independent of his family and who does not prioritize you or your relationship.* Your 2 years were well spent learning that. Now you can move on to find someone who wants the same things you want, and travel/visit family/attend weddings/buy a house with/get engaged to that person.
*This is who he is, not his current circumstances. His priorities are unlikely to change after his exams, after he has grieved his dead parent, or even after he moves out of his family's home. It will then be his career, the second parent dying, etc.
posted by headnsouth at 11:38 AM on February 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Let's say you get married and have kids. His family already controls his life (probably because he is fine with things that way and makes no effort to prevent them from doing so). Are you prepared to let his family tell you what your wedding and marriage should be like? Are you prepared to let his family tell you how you should raise your own kids?
I expected to read your question and tell you that your insecurities about his family were just that — insecurities. But it sounds like he needs to cut the apron strings before a relationship with you will truly work.
posted by Brittanie at 11:39 AM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I expected to read your question and tell you that your insecurities about his family were just that — insecurities. But it sounds like he needs to cut the apron strings before a relationship with you will truly work.
posted by Brittanie at 11:39 AM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
When your partner of two years won't be your date for a wedding, you don't have a partner. When your partner won't travel with you because his mommy finds your country of origin scary and thinks he needs to study, you don't have a partner; you have a highschool boyfriend.
This man is 35 years old. It is well past time for him to leave the nest and be independent.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:40 PM on February 28, 2016 [33 favorites]
This man is 35 years old. It is well past time for him to leave the nest and be independent.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:40 PM on February 28, 2016 [33 favorites]
It sounds like you are mistaking _polite_ for _nice_. His family sounds very polite, but from your description, they don't really sound nice at all.
I missed the age when I was reading and was assuming your boyfriend was 20-ish. At this point, he's not going to change and distance himself from his family. If he's not grown up enough in his mid 30s to make his own decision about a weekend trip, he's just not grown up. There seems to be some thing that is really, really off here.
posted by Vaike at 12:57 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I missed the age when I was reading and was assuming your boyfriend was 20-ish. At this point, he's not going to change and distance himself from his family. If he's not grown up enough in his mid 30s to make his own decision about a weekend trip, he's just not grown up. There seems to be some thing that is really, really off here.
posted by Vaike at 12:57 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Did the parent who just died spend any time being sick and dying beforehand?
I would imagine that the reason his family's criticism makes you think less of him even though you say they're nice people is that they treat him like the little boy he used to be, as many families do, and that forces you to see him as a little boy, which cannot be as endearing to a lover as it is to a parent. It might help to think that being a live-in support to a grieving widow(er) is a very difficult and adult thing to do. And although it would be reasonable to break up with him if you just hate the situation no matter the reason for it, it's probably much harder for him to consider moving out and lose constant contact with his family when he's just seen one of them die and he knows he doesn't necessarily have decades, or years, left with the surviving parent.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:58 PM on February 28, 2016
I would imagine that the reason his family's criticism makes you think less of him even though you say they're nice people is that they treat him like the little boy he used to be, as many families do, and that forces you to see him as a little boy, which cannot be as endearing to a lover as it is to a parent. It might help to think that being a live-in support to a grieving widow(er) is a very difficult and adult thing to do. And although it would be reasonable to break up with him if you just hate the situation no matter the reason for it, it's probably much harder for him to consider moving out and lose constant contact with his family when he's just seen one of them die and he knows he doesn't necessarily have decades, or years, left with the surviving parent.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:58 PM on February 28, 2016
If he has a family that functions for him, then you're asking a lot if you want him to give that up. You don't get to evaluate if his family relationships are correct and appropriate. He gets to do that. Your desires are simply too different to make this work for the long haul. He really wants a spouse who is very comfortable with his family and you are not that spouse. You want - and have every right to demand - much less family time.
The real issue here is you've put two years into a relationship that's a dead-end.
posted by 26.2 at 1:35 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
The real issue here is you've put two years into a relationship that's a dead-end.
posted by 26.2 at 1:35 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oooh... I'm in a very similar situation. My boyfriend's family is always nice to my face, but behind my back they always worry about him when we visit my family (even though I don't live anywhere with a history of terrorist attacks). I'm from a rural area and they used to reference ridiculous scenarios like "hunting accidents" (no one I know is actually a hunter).
They also always cut him down and try to talk him out of doing things he's interested in (like taking a paid fellowship that would mean making him move away for six weeks). I can tell they love him, but there's also some element of apron strings/emotional abuse that makes me super uncomfortable. He wouldn't even tell them about me for over a year! Because he knew they'd freak out about him doing anything other than "studying" in college. After he told them, we still had troubles, and I eventually said I was going to move back home if he couldn't prioritize me, because I missed my family and didn't want to live alone waiting for him to get approval to visit me (and never spending the night). He still couldn't, so I really did move back home. On the last day I was in his city, he wanted to spend the day with me, but his family acted hurt and upset because they wanted to celebrate his birthday that day. :\
Eventually he visited me at home and things worked out and we moved in together (in his city). But it was like pulling teeth to get him to 1) tell them about me, 2) visit me when they disapproved, and 3) move in with me, even though he wanted all those things. Now we live together and he's gotten much better about ignoring them when they are being controlling, though I'm still often bitter about how difficult it was.
(We aren't Asian, for the record, both white, though his mother's family immigrated from Eastern Europe, where mother-son dynamics seem different from America.)
I think it sounds like your case is a little more advanced in that he lives with his family and seems happy there. My boyfriend wasn't happy at home because he acknowledged that his family was treading on his personal space. My best advice is to have an honest conversation that you saw this relationship moving more quickly, and you can't be happy waiting for his family's approval all the time when you're both adults in your 30s. If you did get married, I feel like things wouldn't get any better... thus the popularity of mother-in-law jokes. So, I definitely wouldn't marry him until you were 100% certain he had cut the apron strings, and if that takes too long, it might be best to move on.
When your partner won't travel with you because his mommy finds your country of origin scary and thinks he needs to study, you don't have a partner; you have a highschool boyfriend
This is absolutely true; now that I'm getting closer to my 30s, I don't think I could ever go through that again! I already lived it in high school. Time to tell him "I need you to go to this wedding with me; it's important that I have a partner who is part of my life and makes his own decisions." If he can't do that... don't let him waste your time.
And don't be afraid of looking like the "nag." People always try to make women feel bad for having perfectly reasonable needs. You're already giving over 50% and he's giving much less.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:06 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
They also always cut him down and try to talk him out of doing things he's interested in (like taking a paid fellowship that would mean making him move away for six weeks). I can tell they love him, but there's also some element of apron strings/emotional abuse that makes me super uncomfortable. He wouldn't even tell them about me for over a year! Because he knew they'd freak out about him doing anything other than "studying" in college. After he told them, we still had troubles, and I eventually said I was going to move back home if he couldn't prioritize me, because I missed my family and didn't want to live alone waiting for him to get approval to visit me (and never spending the night). He still couldn't, so I really did move back home. On the last day I was in his city, he wanted to spend the day with me, but his family acted hurt and upset because they wanted to celebrate his birthday that day. :\
Eventually he visited me at home and things worked out and we moved in together (in his city). But it was like pulling teeth to get him to 1) tell them about me, 2) visit me when they disapproved, and 3) move in with me, even though he wanted all those things. Now we live together and he's gotten much better about ignoring them when they are being controlling, though I'm still often bitter about how difficult it was.
(We aren't Asian, for the record, both white, though his mother's family immigrated from Eastern Europe, where mother-son dynamics seem different from America.)
I think it sounds like your case is a little more advanced in that he lives with his family and seems happy there. My boyfriend wasn't happy at home because he acknowledged that his family was treading on his personal space. My best advice is to have an honest conversation that you saw this relationship moving more quickly, and you can't be happy waiting for his family's approval all the time when you're both adults in your 30s. If you did get married, I feel like things wouldn't get any better... thus the popularity of mother-in-law jokes. So, I definitely wouldn't marry him until you were 100% certain he had cut the apron strings, and if that takes too long, it might be best to move on.
When your partner won't travel with you because his mommy finds your country of origin scary and thinks he needs to study, you don't have a partner; you have a highschool boyfriend
This is absolutely true; now that I'm getting closer to my 30s, I don't think I could ever go through that again! I already lived it in high school. Time to tell him "I need you to go to this wedding with me; it's important that I have a partner who is part of my life and makes his own decisions." If he can't do that... don't let him waste your time.
And don't be afraid of looking like the "nag." People always try to make women feel bad for having perfectly reasonable needs. You're already giving over 50% and he's giving much less.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:06 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am currently writing my PhD thesis and he said he would only consider marrying me once I graduate and get a stable job.
That doesn't sound like the statement of a kind person. You're a human being, not a stock that he's buying. Your financial value is not your worth as a person. While he may go through the motions of being nice to you, it seems to me that he's not necessarily seeing you as a whole person. The decision to marry is more than one of dollars and cents.
In a relationship, I need to be valued for who I am, not what I can do money-wise at some point in the future. I would consider myself to be wildly incompatible with anyone who saw things otherwise.
posted by batbat at 2:17 PM on February 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
That doesn't sound like the statement of a kind person. You're a human being, not a stock that he's buying. Your financial value is not your worth as a person. While he may go through the motions of being nice to you, it seems to me that he's not necessarily seeing you as a whole person. The decision to marry is more than one of dollars and cents.
In a relationship, I need to be valued for who I am, not what I can do money-wise at some point in the future. I would consider myself to be wildly incompatible with anyone who saw things otherwise.
posted by batbat at 2:17 PM on February 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
Your boyfriend's relationship with his family sounds like a lot like my husband's relationship with his parents. I think it's not uncommon in Asian parenting for people to criticize their adult children as a way to guilt and control them. Especially with male children, culturally, there's often this expectation that they will continue to live at home, and when they get married, their wife will move in with them in their parents' home and their kids will grow up there, etc. So this might also be something to take into account if you are, in fact, considering marrying him (totally separately from the question of whether he is, in fact, considering marrying you).
Does he ever actually want to leave his family's house? It doesn't seem like he is taking concrete steps to do so. If you do get married and he moves out, will they want you to move in there? Will they say that out loud and guilt you, or will it just be a secret deep-down desire of theirs that they don't voice outwardly but that comes out in weird passive aggressive ways? You may be expected to not stray too far, and you may still "have to" go and visit every weekend or two. If marriage is for life, then in-laws are basically for life as well and if you get married, it seems you will have to deal with this complicated family dynamic forever.
It's not wrong for you to want to spend so much time with his family; your feelings are perfectly valid. Nobody wants to spend that much time with their in-laws, even if they are perfectly nice people. But you two have to be able to openly discuss the problem, how you feel, and develop strategies together to be able to deal with this issue. It's good that he acknowledges how much time you spend with his family, and apologizes for it. But can you discuss it further and see if there are any further strategies you can develop to ensure that it's not something you have to do as often, or if he can spend more time with you? The underlying issue of you feeling like he prioritizes them over you also must be discussed.
Believe me when I say that in my marriage, the sheer amount of time we spend with our families is probably the number one issue we have. Except for we both have demanding families who live in the same city and we are expected to visit both sets of parents often to spend time with them. You can look at my ask history for details. For us, it is an issue that we are constantly working on and developing strategies around -- he fields all calls from his parents, I field all calls from my parents; we don't commit to any events when put on the spot; instead we say "we'll check our schedule and get back to you", we don't go visit them every weekend; instead, we set some boundaries and try to schedule a visit for every 2-3 weekends; we call/Skype/FaceTime them more instead of visiting; I don't go every single time that he goes to visit his parents nor does he come every single time I visit my parents; sometimes if we have spent 4-6 hours at any one family's house, we make it up to the other in the equivalent of household chores, etc (basically, the purpose of this is that we recognize that it's not easy for the other person to give up their free time and put on a happy face and go and visit their in-laws, and that both of our families can be annoying for the other to deal with). My point is that acknowledging and apologizing for is the first step. Actually doing something about is the next.
posted by spicytunaroll at 2:33 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does he ever actually want to leave his family's house? It doesn't seem like he is taking concrete steps to do so. If you do get married and he moves out, will they want you to move in there? Will they say that out loud and guilt you, or will it just be a secret deep-down desire of theirs that they don't voice outwardly but that comes out in weird passive aggressive ways? You may be expected to not stray too far, and you may still "have to" go and visit every weekend or two. If marriage is for life, then in-laws are basically for life as well and if you get married, it seems you will have to deal with this complicated family dynamic forever.
It's not wrong for you to want to spend so much time with his family; your feelings are perfectly valid. Nobody wants to spend that much time with their in-laws, even if they are perfectly nice people. But you two have to be able to openly discuss the problem, how you feel, and develop strategies together to be able to deal with this issue. It's good that he acknowledges how much time you spend with his family, and apologizes for it. But can you discuss it further and see if there are any further strategies you can develop to ensure that it's not something you have to do as often, or if he can spend more time with you? The underlying issue of you feeling like he prioritizes them over you also must be discussed.
Believe me when I say that in my marriage, the sheer amount of time we spend with our families is probably the number one issue we have. Except for we both have demanding families who live in the same city and we are expected to visit both sets of parents often to spend time with them. You can look at my ask history for details. For us, it is an issue that we are constantly working on and developing strategies around -- he fields all calls from his parents, I field all calls from my parents; we don't commit to any events when put on the spot; instead we say "we'll check our schedule and get back to you", we don't go visit them every weekend; instead, we set some boundaries and try to schedule a visit for every 2-3 weekends; we call/Skype/FaceTime them more instead of visiting; I don't go every single time that he goes to visit his parents nor does he come every single time I visit my parents; sometimes if we have spent 4-6 hours at any one family's house, we make it up to the other in the equivalent of household chores, etc (basically, the purpose of this is that we recognize that it's not easy for the other person to give up their free time and put on a happy face and go and visit their in-laws, and that both of our families can be annoying for the other to deal with). My point is that acknowledging and apologizing for is the first step. Actually doing something about is the next.
posted by spicytunaroll at 2:33 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
He sounds like a kid. Are the posters above who are saying he's 35 correct? I missed it in your post. If so, oh my god, GTFO, because if a man's mommy tells him where to travel when he's 35, that's a dealbreaker. He's never going to be able to stand up to her and put a wife first.
If he's really in his early or mid 20s, well, he's just at a much earlier life stage than you are (even if he isn't chronologically.) He sounds economically dependent on them, is that correct? That tends to be the deciding factor. It may change once he's got a job that makes him independent. But as things stand... it kind of sounds like a mismatch to me, honestly. A huge predictor of marital success is the ability to detach successfully from the family of origin in order to prioritize one's marital coupling, and this dude isn't looking like a great candidate on that front.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:02 PM on February 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
If he's really in his early or mid 20s, well, he's just at a much earlier life stage than you are (even if he isn't chronologically.) He sounds economically dependent on them, is that correct? That tends to be the deciding factor. It may change once he's got a job that makes him independent. But as things stand... it kind of sounds like a mismatch to me, honestly. A huge predictor of marital success is the ability to detach successfully from the family of origin in order to prioritize one's marital coupling, and this dude isn't looking like a great candidate on that front.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:02 PM on February 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
What are your plans post-Ph.D.? Would you want to move to another city or country for postdocs or more permanent positions? It doesn't sound like your boyfriend would be willing to follow.
posted by yarntheory at 5:28 PM on February 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by yarntheory at 5:28 PM on February 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
"he said he would only consider marrying me once I graduate and get a stable job. I can understand this rationally, but it makes me feel that he is not willing to support me through uncertainties and will only marry me if he knows he does not need to take care of me."
I'll be fair, I think that is actually quite reasonable in general. I was engaged to someone who could not maintain stable employment and it's a real stressor on a relationship, and it would probably be all for the best if you were relatively "settled" before settling down. However, I don't think that is the main roadblock here.
He really wants a spouse who is very comfortable with his family and you are not that spouse.
Here's the issue: I come from a family that's ...fairly smothering. Things have kinda slowly evolved, but back when I used to date, I was getting pulled back and forth by both sides complaining I wasn't putting them first. I couldn't abandon my parents and not put them first--they came first, I had a dying parent, etc. and really, how long have I known this guy to put him first? Naturally, the guys got fed up with me and I can't blame them, because if your family situation is smothering* there really isn't room for a son or daughter-in-law in their lives, and anyone they marry should go into it knowing that they're priority #4 and the parents are going to be first. Either that or the kid has to take extreme measures and probably cut their parents off to some degree and then deal with the drama of that. Some families are just not at all welcoming of newcomers and in-laws and while these folks don't sound as bad as say, my relatives, they're not making you feel super great either. It takes a really uh.... submissive person, I guess, to marry into that. (Reminds me of the Boynton family from Agatha Christie's Appointment With Death a bit.)
* and I can't even speak to "Asians living in Asia," but from what others have told me, that exacerbates it all
This is to say that if you aren't up to being #4 behind him and his parents and their demands, don't marry him. They don't really want or need a daughter-in-law unless they want grandkids, and that's not to say they'll super be easy to deal with then either. I'd bet he wants to put off the marriage question because he knows it's gonna be stressful as hell with his parents to bring someone else into the family and thus they don't get as much attention.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:15 PM on February 28, 2016
I'll be fair, I think that is actually quite reasonable in general. I was engaged to someone who could not maintain stable employment and it's a real stressor on a relationship, and it would probably be all for the best if you were relatively "settled" before settling down. However, I don't think that is the main roadblock here.
He really wants a spouse who is very comfortable with his family and you are not that spouse.
Here's the issue: I come from a family that's ...fairly smothering. Things have kinda slowly evolved, but back when I used to date, I was getting pulled back and forth by both sides complaining I wasn't putting them first. I couldn't abandon my parents and not put them first--they came first, I had a dying parent, etc. and really, how long have I known this guy to put him first? Naturally, the guys got fed up with me and I can't blame them, because if your family situation is smothering* there really isn't room for a son or daughter-in-law in their lives, and anyone they marry should go into it knowing that they're priority #4 and the parents are going to be first. Either that or the kid has to take extreme measures and probably cut their parents off to some degree and then deal with the drama of that. Some families are just not at all welcoming of newcomers and in-laws and while these folks don't sound as bad as say, my relatives, they're not making you feel super great either. It takes a really uh.... submissive person, I guess, to marry into that. (Reminds me of the Boynton family from Agatha Christie's Appointment With Death a bit.)
* and I can't even speak to "Asians living in Asia," but from what others have told me, that exacerbates it all
This is to say that if you aren't up to being #4 behind him and his parents and their demands, don't marry him. They don't really want or need a daughter-in-law unless they want grandkids, and that's not to say they'll super be easy to deal with then either. I'd bet he wants to put off the marriage question because he knows it's gonna be stressful as hell with his parents to bring someone else into the family and thus they don't get as much attention.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:15 PM on February 28, 2016
Response by poster: He and I are both financially independent (I had a scholarship and now I work full time while writing my thesis). I am not sure about his current financial arrangement with his parent but I know that he earns enough to be independent so even if his parent still provides free meal and rent, it is not out of necessity. The death of his other parent was unexpected, with no sickness and dying period, which probably makes it all the more difficult for those left behind.
I used to live alone for a period of time and he used to stay overnight every now and then until one day his mom freaked out about me taking so much of his 'studying' time and then he stopped staying overnight. I now have a housemate so it's not possible for him to stay overnight though he actually can hang around during the day. I think it is possible for him to just bring over his stuffs and study at my place but he said it will be too inconvenient (which I think is just an excuse).
I actually want to move somewhere else after my PhD since this is not my home country and I don't really like the life style. I've mentioned it to him before but he acted defensive somehow and we never talk about it again. He seems to just assume that I will continue living in this country.
I have also thought that he will be better off with someone who is more comfortable with that much family influence and that I will be better off with someone who is more independent. But the thought of breaking up with him makes me really sad.
posted by thecampushippo at 6:41 PM on February 28, 2016
I used to live alone for a period of time and he used to stay overnight every now and then until one day his mom freaked out about me taking so much of his 'studying' time and then he stopped staying overnight. I now have a housemate so it's not possible for him to stay overnight though he actually can hang around during the day. I think it is possible for him to just bring over his stuffs and study at my place but he said it will be too inconvenient (which I think is just an excuse).
I actually want to move somewhere else after my PhD since this is not my home country and I don't really like the life style. I've mentioned it to him before but he acted defensive somehow and we never talk about it again. He seems to just assume that I will continue living in this country.
I have also thought that he will be better off with someone who is more comfortable with that much family influence and that I will be better off with someone who is more independent. But the thought of breaking up with him makes me really sad.
posted by thecampushippo at 6:41 PM on February 28, 2016
I does not seem like you are compatible with this person. The fact that he's financially independent from his family but is concerned about your income and stability before you marry, makes me feel that he doesn't deeply care about you. That he's blowing off your desire to move to the point that you don't feel comfortable bringing it up again is a big red flag on your communication style. He also expects you to spend a lot of time with his family, but for him to spend none with yours. You want to move to a different country and be in a serious relationship. Buckle down on your thesis, move, and find a more compatible partner. This guy may be nice but he doesn't seem to be coming through on the listening or caring, which in my mind are two things you have to have to work out everything else.
posted by Kalmya at 6:49 PM on February 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Kalmya at 6:49 PM on February 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
ok, with your update, it seems like you buried the lede in a big way. Your goal is to leave the country you're in. This guy won't even sleep over at your house without his mother's ok, much less leave the country with you (you don't think she'll ok that, do you?) This relationship has an end date on it already, so don't worry about improving the relationship with the family.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:49 PM on February 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:49 PM on February 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
I feel that even previously I was never his priority.
Oh, babygirl, stop right there. Take a large step back. Be smart, be clinical. Take care of YOU for a moment. This is the red flag. This is the ringing bell. This is the warning sign. No matter any other thing: The right person for you will make you feel like a priority. True love is not a lie, but we waste all this time with the wrong people. Two years down the drain? Better than five years or ten years or twenty years, believe me.
However, you haven't done enough communicating. Before you tell him what you want, know what you want. Talk with your bf, and then talk some more. If he just doesn't "get it"~~ please, please, listen to your instincts. You will know everything you need to know by his reactions. It is never, ever wrong to negotiate the terms of your own life. You only get one.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 7:44 AM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, babygirl, stop right there. Take a large step back. Be smart, be clinical. Take care of YOU for a moment. This is the red flag. This is the ringing bell. This is the warning sign. No matter any other thing: The right person for you will make you feel like a priority. True love is not a lie, but we waste all this time with the wrong people. Two years down the drain? Better than five years or ten years or twenty years, believe me.
However, you haven't done enough communicating. Before you tell him what you want, know what you want. Talk with your bf, and then talk some more. If he just doesn't "get it"~~ please, please, listen to your instincts. You will know everything you need to know by his reactions. It is never, ever wrong to negotiate the terms of your own life. You only get one.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 7:44 AM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Every single crunch issue in this relationship that you've described here, you've said something like, We began to discuss it, it wasn't satisfactory to me, I haven't brought it up since then because I know I won't like his answer/the outcome. Seriously.
I've mentioned it to him before but he acted defensive somehow and we never talk about it again.
I never mentioned this explicitly to my bf because I don't think I'll get the answer that I am hoping for.
He said he would consider which I took as the code word for "I'll ask my family about it and I won't go if they say no"...I am expecting him to say no.
Are you going to live your adult life with the person who is supposed to be your partner avoiding mentioning everything that's most important to you because you know the answer is always going to be 'No'; and once you hear the 'No' there's no avoiding the knowledge that what you want doesn't mean that much to him? You can love this man but you know he's not for you. You already know this. What you've described is the point at which a relationship is over.
And you know the problem isn't the in-laws, it's him. You're going places, he can't be a partner to the woman you are. I'm sorry, because you sound as if you have genuine feelings for him.
posted by glasseyes at 6:43 AM on March 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've mentioned it to him before but he acted defensive somehow and we never talk about it again.
I never mentioned this explicitly to my bf because I don't think I'll get the answer that I am hoping for.
He said he would consider which I took as the code word for "I'll ask my family about it and I won't go if they say no"...I am expecting him to say no.
Are you going to live your adult life with the person who is supposed to be your partner avoiding mentioning everything that's most important to you because you know the answer is always going to be 'No'; and once you hear the 'No' there's no avoiding the knowledge that what you want doesn't mean that much to him? You can love this man but you know he's not for you. You already know this. What you've described is the point at which a relationship is over.
And you know the problem isn't the in-laws, it's him. You're going places, he can't be a partner to the woman you are. I'm sorry, because you sound as if you have genuine feelings for him.
posted by glasseyes at 6:43 AM on March 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: He said no to the upcoming trip, even after I pleaded with him so much to go with me. It was probably wrong of me to bring up something like this so soon after his father's passing. I offered to defer the decision until later this year but he had already decided with his mum that he won't go, so he won't go. I think his answer would still be the same even if his father were still around.
I am so ready to be in a relationship with an adult, not a high school boy. I asked for a temporary break but I think it is best for everyone to make it permanent soon.
I marked headnsouth's as best answer because it changed the way I see the two years that I have spent in this relationship, not as a surefire road to marriage but as a period to assess compatibility. All the other answers have been tremendously helpful and enlightening as well. Thank you all.
posted by thecampushippo at 3:09 AM on March 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am so ready to be in a relationship with an adult, not a high school boy. I asked for a temporary break but I think it is best for everyone to make it permanent soon.
I marked headnsouth's as best answer because it changed the way I see the two years that I have spent in this relationship, not as a surefire road to marriage but as a period to assess compatibility. All the other answers have been tremendously helpful and enlightening as well. Thank you all.
posted by thecampushippo at 3:09 AM on March 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:59 AM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]