Inclusive language that works a little better than "non male"
February 26, 2016 9:05 PM Subscribe
I'm looking for a more appropriate word than "non male" that is more inclusive than "female."
Also if there are any other non-discriminatory words that are best practice to use that'd be swell. The most accepted word for "non-white" is, I think, minority? What's the word for non-drivers? Etc.
Also if there are any other non-discriminatory words that are best practice to use that'd be swell. The most accepted word for "non-white" is, I think, minority? What's the word for non-drivers? Etc.
You're looking for a word that includes all gender expressions except for cis-males? I'm not sure you can get something other than "non-male" without it getting complicated and confusing. Is there a reason that non-male is unacceptable?
Taking the example of "non-drivers", you could use "pedestrian", but that would exclude bike-riders and people who take public transportation, and I can't think of a word that would encompass all of those other forms of transportation.
posted by Aleyn at 9:48 PM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Taking the example of "non-drivers", you could use "pedestrian", but that would exclude bike-riders and people who take public transportation, and I can't think of a word that would encompass all of those other forms of transportation.
posted by Aleyn at 9:48 PM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Friends that I've organized with at my university, who work at LGBTQ and the women's center, we've had discussions and decided "folx with marginalized genders/identities" was a pretty fantastic way to go.
This is to allow for the complexity of those who are on the non-binary/genderqueer/trans*/agender continuum/spectrum, and to also make explicit space for those who are people of color and queer. The key word is 'marginalized' but I don't think it's good to be reductive to a single word, when our intersectional identities are really not easily boxed into a single word :)
posted by yueliang at 10:33 PM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is to allow for the complexity of those who are on the non-binary/genderqueer/trans*/agender continuum/spectrum, and to also make explicit space for those who are people of color and queer. The key word is 'marginalized' but I don't think it's good to be reductive to a single word, when our intersectional identities are really not easily boxed into a single word :)
posted by yueliang at 10:33 PM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lately I've been using "trans people and/or women"
I hope that it shows I'm:
Putting trans people first
Saying that there are people who are transgender and who are also women; "women and trans people" weirds me out because it kind of implies that trans people are a separate group from women, when in fact quite a lot of them are women.
Saying that there are trans people who are not women
It's not perfect, but that's my reasoning.
posted by Juliet Banana at 10:33 PM on February 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I hope that it shows I'm:
Putting trans people first
Saying that there are people who are transgender and who are also women; "women and trans people" weirds me out because it kind of implies that trans people are a separate group from women, when in fact quite a lot of them are women.
Saying that there are trans people who are not women
It's not perfect, but that's my reasoning.
posted by Juliet Banana at 10:33 PM on February 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure you can get something other than "non-male" without it getting complicated and confusing. Is there a reason that non-male is unacceptable?
It would be unacceptable to transgender men. You're saying they're not really men. And that implies that you don't think transgender people are real.
Language almost always has some kind of context. What do you want to do with this word? What's your goal?
posted by John Cohen at 10:59 PM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It would be unacceptable to transgender men. You're saying they're not really men. And that implies that you don't think transgender people are real.
Language almost always has some kind of context. What do you want to do with this word? What's your goal?
posted by John Cohen at 10:59 PM on February 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
A group I'm a member of uses "female and gender non-conforming" which I don't 100% love but which seems to be a standard phrase. You can also play around with "female-identifying" or "non-binary".
posted by Brittanie at 12:22 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Brittanie at 12:22 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: In this case, the term is being used in a discussion of cis male privilege and a "women & trans" event that is open only to people who do not identify as cis male.
But I'm interested in these events more generally and I know that each group does things a little differently, so the more word suggestions the merrier.
posted by aniola at 12:29 AM on February 27, 2016
But I'm interested in these events more generally and I know that each group does things a little differently, so the more word suggestions the merrier.
posted by aniola at 12:29 AM on February 27, 2016
One way to phrase it without quite using a negative (non-/not) is "people with identities other than cis male." That's a lot of syllables, though.
posted by sibilatorix at 12:33 AM on February 27, 2016
posted by sibilatorix at 12:33 AM on February 27, 2016
"identifies as female" is something I've used a lot...
posted by ozgirlabroad at 12:33 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ozgirlabroad at 12:33 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Women and trans" can feel very invalidating to trans women. Perhaps "marginalized genders" might be a better fit?
(Also, it may unintentionally encourage those people who say, "I know a tran!" )
posted by transitional procedures at 1:21 AM on February 27, 2016
(Also, it may unintentionally encourage those people who say, "I know a tran!" )
posted by transitional procedures at 1:21 AM on February 27, 2016
Just a note that to me (cis woman), "marginalized gender" means queer, trans, or otherwise non-traditional-gender-conforming -- I don't think of myself as having a "marginalized gender" and would not consider myself included in that group. Personally, I like "identify as female or genderqueer/gender non-conforming."
posted by chickenmagazine at 4:36 AM on February 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by chickenmagazine at 4:36 AM on February 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Biological sex is our anatomy as female, male, or intersex. It includes our internal and external sex organs, chromosomes, and hormones. Some people are intersex rather than female or male. Our biological sex is how we are defined as female, male, or intersex. It describes our internal and external bodies — including our sexual and reproductive anatomy, our genetic makeup, and our hormones.
Gender is our social and legal status as girls and boys, women and men. Gender identity is how you feel about and express your gender. Culture determines gender roles and what is masculine and feminine.
Sex and gender are two different things. Start with definitions, then choose your terms.
posted by Carol Anne at 4:37 AM on February 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Gender is our social and legal status as girls and boys, women and men. Gender identity is how you feel about and express your gender. Culture determines gender roles and what is masculine and feminine.
Sex and gender are two different things. Start with definitions, then choose your terms.
posted by Carol Anne at 4:37 AM on February 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
You sometimes see things like 'trans- and/or woman-identified people' which is super clunky, but is an attempt to go one step past Juliet Banana's "trans people and/or women" and talk about identity explicitly.
I actually participate in a group that bills itself as "for women and non-binary people" which is mostly trans women and non-binary people (in charge and participating). This is followed by something like "men are welcome to come, but understand you're not the focus of the space." Depending on where the context, I think it would be fine to just say something like "cis men, this isn't the event/session/whatever for you, please respect that".
LGBTQIA women
Trans men exist and are in the target audience here (as are straight women). That's a whole minefield to itself, but anyway...
posted by hoyland at 4:37 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I actually participate in a group that bills itself as "for women and non-binary people" which is mostly trans women and non-binary people (in charge and participating). This is followed by something like "men are welcome to come, but understand you're not the focus of the space." Depending on where the context, I think it would be fine to just say something like "cis men, this isn't the event/session/whatever for you, please respect that".
LGBTQIA women
Trans men exist and are in the target audience here (as are straight women). That's a whole minefield to itself, but anyway...
posted by hoyland at 4:37 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, it feels really casual and landmine-y, but I personally would say "all women and queer individuals".
posted by Mizu at 7:20 AM on February 27, 2016
posted by Mizu at 7:20 AM on February 27, 2016
Oh wait, that doesn't exclude cis gay men. Argh. Everything else is at least twice as long.
posted by Mizu at 7:26 AM on February 27, 2016
posted by Mizu at 7:26 AM on February 27, 2016
I like "car free" instead of non driver since it can encapsulate pedestrians, cyclists, public transportation-taking folks, etc, whether it is by choice or necessity.
As for not-cis-men, odds are you are going to offend or exclude someone (other than cis men) regardless of the language you chose. I've seen events advertised as for women by birth or experience (I can't remember the exact phrasing; they said it more gracefully so that it implied that people assigned female at birth as well as those with lived female experience were welcome), but many trans men who would not feel included or comfortable in that space--and some would even be offended if they thought they were being included in that phrase.
posted by carrioncomfort at 8:21 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
As for not-cis-men, odds are you are going to offend or exclude someone (other than cis men) regardless of the language you chose. I've seen events advertised as for women by birth or experience (I can't remember the exact phrasing; they said it more gracefully so that it implied that people assigned female at birth as well as those with lived female experience were welcome), but many trans men who would not feel included or comfortable in that space--and some would even be offended if they thought they were being included in that phrase.
posted by carrioncomfort at 8:21 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
In this case, the term is being used in a discussion of cis male privilege and a "women & trans" event that is open only to people who do not identify as cis male.
It isn't one concise term, but how about:
Please join us for a discussion of cis male privilege. Due to safety considerations, only other gender identities than the above are welcomed.
posted by lovelygirl at 9:12 AM on February 27, 2016
It isn't one concise term, but how about:
Please join us for a discussion of cis male privilege. Due to safety considerations, only other gender identities than the above are welcomed.
posted by lovelygirl at 9:12 AM on February 27, 2016
Response by poster: I'm not naming the event, it's already ongoing. It's Women & Trans night. I just want language for conversation and writing.
Part of what I'm looking for is a word that describes gender non-conforming while phrasing it in terms of what it is rather than what it isn't.
I think the language around this may not have settled yet? And I'll just have to wait a few years. I think for now the best answer might be "genderqueer and/or trans* and/or women"
And car free is defining everyone else in terms of what they're not.
Also I've been seeing "folx" used but I can't find its history online?
posted by aniola at 9:24 AM on February 27, 2016
Part of what I'm looking for is a word that describes gender non-conforming while phrasing it in terms of what it is rather than what it isn't.
I think the language around this may not have settled yet? And I'll just have to wait a few years. I think for now the best answer might be "genderqueer and/or trans* and/or women"
And car free is defining everyone else in terms of what they're not.
Also I've been seeing "folx" used but I can't find its history online?
posted by aniola at 9:24 AM on February 27, 2016
I would avoid anything like lovelygirl's suggestion; there's no need to accuse all straight men of being dangerous.
posted by teatime at 9:42 AM on February 27, 2016
posted by teatime at 9:42 AM on February 27, 2016
Also, to throw in another option:
"Women, trans-women, and trans-men only."
posted by teatime at 9:51 AM on February 27, 2016
"Women, trans-women, and trans-men only."
posted by teatime at 9:51 AM on February 27, 2016
"Welcoming diversity: women and queer-positive people; two-spirited, intersex, and trans inclusive"
That is how I have worded events. I think it can be very regional though in what "code words" are accepted and understood in your community. It is almost like the hanky code!
posted by saucysault at 10:20 AM on February 27, 2016
That is how I have worded events. I think it can be very regional though in what "code words" are accepted and understood in your community. It is almost like the hanky code!
posted by saucysault at 10:20 AM on February 27, 2016
I would say "women, trans men, and people with marginalized gender identities." I don't think there's a way to lump women and trans men together (apart from "non-cis male") that isn't invalidating.
posted by thetortoise at 10:26 AM on February 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 10:26 AM on February 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am also involved in the discussion aniola refers to.
We do not need a name/label/description for an event, though some good ones have been suggested.
We need a word or phrase to use in conversation for "people who are not cis male" that is:
1) short & sweet
2) comprehensive
3) ideally defined in a positive way, rather than "not" "non-" or "other"
I realize this may be asking for the moon on a slice of bread... but that's the sort of thing Ask Metafilter is good at!
posted by sibilatorix at 10:37 AM on February 27, 2016
We do not need a name/label/description for an event, though some good ones have been suggested.
We need a word or phrase to use in conversation for "people who are not cis male" that is:
1) short & sweet
2) comprehensive
3) ideally defined in a positive way, rather than "not" "non-" or "other"
I realize this may be asking for the moon on a slice of bread... but that's the sort of thing Ask Metafilter is good at!
posted by sibilatorix at 10:37 AM on February 27, 2016
I am a non-driver. I gave up my car years ago and my license to drive more recently (though still "years ago").
I am car-free but I think that language fails because it focuses on what you own or do not own rather than on how you get around. You can own a car, yet mostly walk, bike, etc. I generally refer to myself as a pedestrian who sometimes uses public transit. I talk and think a lot about auto-centric and not auto-centric lifestyles/thinking/etc.
In urban planning, you see the terms "pedestrian friendly" and "transit oriented design" a good bit as a means to talk about giving push back against the American assumption that everyone has a car and everyone must drive everywhere. It isn't perfect, but it is pro diversity in transit compared to the standard American assumptions and mental models that make non-drivers second class citizens.
I also bitch a lot to my sons about "car people" when I am fed up with certain things. I have never thought what the counterpart term might be -- I.e., I am not a car person, so what would you call me? -- because it is typically being used as kind of a swear word to sum up a set of prejudices, biased mental models and assumptions that most Americans make that result in negative experiences for those pursuing alternate transportation methods and which help keep alternate transit a "second class citizen" experience.
posted by Michele in California at 10:46 AM on February 27, 2016
I am car-free but I think that language fails because it focuses on what you own or do not own rather than on how you get around. You can own a car, yet mostly walk, bike, etc. I generally refer to myself as a pedestrian who sometimes uses public transit. I talk and think a lot about auto-centric and not auto-centric lifestyles/thinking/etc.
In urban planning, you see the terms "pedestrian friendly" and "transit oriented design" a good bit as a means to talk about giving push back against the American assumption that everyone has a car and everyone must drive everywhere. It isn't perfect, but it is pro diversity in transit compared to the standard American assumptions and mental models that make non-drivers second class citizens.
I also bitch a lot to my sons about "car people" when I am fed up with certain things. I have never thought what the counterpart term might be -- I.e., I am not a car person, so what would you call me? -- because it is typically being used as kind of a swear word to sum up a set of prejudices, biased mental models and assumptions that most Americans make that result in negative experiences for those pursuing alternate transportation methods and which help keep alternate transit a "second class citizen" experience.
posted by Michele in California at 10:46 AM on February 27, 2016
Maybe we're misunderstanding what you're wanting, because it looks to me like nearly every comment has suggested a word/phrase to describe this class of people, and none of them have suggested names for your event. If the answers you've gotten so far are not the correct type of thing, you should try again to explain what you want.
posted by teatime at 10:46 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by teatime at 10:46 AM on February 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'll MeMail you with a FB event that shows how our community posts on the event page, probably one of the most brilliant and talented uses of gender inclusive language I've seen. I still stand by my suggestion as something that fits exactly what you are looking for.
What's up with the word folx?
posted by yueliang at 10:59 AM on February 27, 2016
What's up with the word folx?
posted by yueliang at 10:59 AM on February 27, 2016
"Women and people with marginalized gender identities" is as close to concise as you'll get.
As a (female-identifying) genderqueer person, I would like to implore you, PLEASE do not use "female-identifying" to describe all of us. It only describes some of us and will misgender others. (Though...are trans* men and masculine-of-center folk invited to this event? I'm going to assume yes, but if not, then you can say "female-identifying"!)
I'm also glad you are trying to move away from just saying "women and trans*" because I don't generally use either word for myself, but I am in fact your target audience. I'll also push back against the suggestion to put "trans*" before "women" because there is a history in LGBTQ culture of people refusing to put women's identities first (see also the STILL SOMEHOW ONGOING debate about "LGBT" vs. "GLBT")
posted by capricorn at 11:33 AM on February 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a (female-identifying) genderqueer person, I would like to implore you, PLEASE do not use "female-identifying" to describe all of us. It only describes some of us and will misgender others. (Though...are trans* men and masculine-of-center folk invited to this event? I'm going to assume yes, but if not, then you can say "female-identifying"!)
I'm also glad you are trying to move away from just saying "women and trans*" because I don't generally use either word for myself, but I am in fact your target audience. I'll also push back against the suggestion to put "trans*" before "women" because there is a history in LGBTQ culture of people refusing to put women's identities first (see also the STILL SOMEHOW ONGOING debate about "LGBT" vs. "GLBT")
posted by capricorn at 11:33 AM on February 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: yueliang, thanks for the memail! Your original answer and capricorn's were some of the ones that I think came closest, especially with the explanation of "folx" but I'm not sure about defining people based on marginalization, either?
posted by aniola at 12:13 PM on February 27, 2016
posted by aniola at 12:13 PM on February 27, 2016
I would please ask you to not used as "identifies as a woman" for your event. I'm non-binary. I experience a lot of the same marginalization that most women do. I feel really, really uncomfortable attending events that don't even mention being open to nonbinary people at all, and in the end it just means I don't have any place that feels safe. It's not like a five foot tall person with breasts automatically gets a seat in the boy's club when they start identifying as agender/genderqueer/gender non conforming.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:38 PM on February 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:38 PM on February 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
I just realized that my post was saying basically the same thing as capricorn. Sorry to gang up on that suggestion! I hadn't seen that before I posted.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:42 PM on February 27, 2016
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:42 PM on February 27, 2016
Response by poster: To reiterate, I do not run this event or even currently participate in the event itself. I am looking for inclusive language to use in conversation and discussion about the event.
posted by aniola at 12:43 PM on February 27, 2016
posted by aniola at 12:43 PM on February 27, 2016
I like "people who identify as women, trans, and/or genderqueer", and personally I don't think that's overly wordy. I do not think there is a one-word solution.
posted by rainbowbrite at 4:57 PM on February 27, 2016
posted by rainbowbrite at 4:57 PM on February 27, 2016
Best answer: So many of you had great answers, thank you all for your suggestions.
posted by aniola at 6:07 PM on February 27, 2016
posted by aniola at 6:07 PM on February 27, 2016
> jinx
Damn! And here I thought you introduced me to the perfect term for what you were looking for (along the lines of "folx") before I realized what you were really saying....
posted by losvedir at 7:46 PM on February 27, 2016
Damn! And here I thought you introduced me to the perfect term for what you were looking for (along the lines of "folx") before I realized what you were really saying....
posted by losvedir at 7:46 PM on February 27, 2016
I think I would go with a different strategy and not explicitly exclude cis males at all. But I would throw in enough indicator language that cis males would not think that was a thing "for them". Something like "all-gender and all-gender-friendly."
Then I would throw people out for problematic behavior, not for their identity. I understand how that might not work if the mere presence of cis males might stifle some people from talking freely.
posted by ctmf at 9:07 PM on February 27, 2016
Then I would throw people out for problematic behavior, not for their identity. I understand how that might not work if the mere presence of cis males might stifle some people from talking freely.
posted by ctmf at 9:07 PM on February 27, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ananci at 9:44 PM on February 26, 2016 [10 favorites]