A rock, a hard place, and OKCupid.
February 12, 2016 8:04 AM Subscribe
We've been together for a long time and long distance might open us up.
Straight couple, late 20s, dating for less than a decade but not that much.
I moved. He didn't. The distance has been a strain. We love each other and have a great time when we're together. We see each other about twice every three months; we talk on the phone a few times a week; we are constantly texting and emailing. I am more comfortable with the way we are right now than he is.
He says he wants to sleep with other people and still keep me as his girlfriend. I think he wants some companionship and social support as well. I am lonely in my new city and wouldn't mind the same. I am so so so afraid of where this could go -- how can we not end up ignoring or hurting each other there?
I have said I am all or nothing for this relationship; he said he'd rather stay in our current relationship than risk losing me, but he's unhappy. He seems to have a visceral reaction to the idea of us breaking up.
I feel fucking crazy. I don't want to be in an open relationship. If he wants to sleep with other people, fine, but I'm like 85% sure I cannot emotionally handle that. And the idea of him dating, being close to someone else -- I can't. But he keeps saying that if I don't want it, we won't do it, we'll stay with the status quo. The status quo is making him unhappy which is making me unhappy. He argues my use of an ultimatum is unfair and that sex is more important to him than me (I agree).
He is here for a week right now.
a - What the fuck??
b - WHAT the ACTUAL fuck, like, is this a non-horrible thing to do, am I a horrible person, who is the horrible one jesus christ
c - does opening up relationships ever work?
d - does opening up long distance relationships ever work?
e - do you think I could be okay with this? I have a lot of clinical anxiety and OCD and like can really see myself being like "oh my god that girl he just friended on Facebook is skinnier than me, oh my god" and that would drive me to pieces because I'm nuts.
f - what are the things I am missing here, we are going in circles, it has been days
g - if we did do this, what would we tell people
h - I am organized and methodical to a fault and totally uncomfortable with feelings and with discussions that don't have an end point or an action item and I am not dealing well with this, how do I be better with this and these discussions and being open
thank you in advance
bonus question: he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy; I think that is the only way I'd be comfortable. he wants us to trust each other and be honest with each other. I will say he is a scrupulously, scrupulously honest and open guy. I have a hard time communicating (or even recognizing) all my feelings, and am also more comfortable hiding things and evading the truth. He will tell me anything and everything, so I'm not like...worried about him doing things and hiding them. again: who is the wrong one here (I'm only sort of joking)
Straight couple, late 20s, dating for less than a decade but not that much.
I moved. He didn't. The distance has been a strain. We love each other and have a great time when we're together. We see each other about twice every three months; we talk on the phone a few times a week; we are constantly texting and emailing. I am more comfortable with the way we are right now than he is.
He says he wants to sleep with other people and still keep me as his girlfriend. I think he wants some companionship and social support as well. I am lonely in my new city and wouldn't mind the same. I am so so so afraid of where this could go -- how can we not end up ignoring or hurting each other there?
I have said I am all or nothing for this relationship; he said he'd rather stay in our current relationship than risk losing me, but he's unhappy. He seems to have a visceral reaction to the idea of us breaking up.
I feel fucking crazy. I don't want to be in an open relationship. If he wants to sleep with other people, fine, but I'm like 85% sure I cannot emotionally handle that. And the idea of him dating, being close to someone else -- I can't. But he keeps saying that if I don't want it, we won't do it, we'll stay with the status quo. The status quo is making him unhappy which is making me unhappy. He argues my use of an ultimatum is unfair and that sex is more important to him than me (I agree).
He is here for a week right now.
a - What the fuck??
b - WHAT the ACTUAL fuck, like, is this a non-horrible thing to do, am I a horrible person, who is the horrible one jesus christ
c - does opening up relationships ever work?
d - does opening up long distance relationships ever work?
e - do you think I could be okay with this? I have a lot of clinical anxiety and OCD and like can really see myself being like "oh my god that girl he just friended on Facebook is skinnier than me, oh my god" and that would drive me to pieces because I'm nuts.
f - what are the things I am missing here, we are going in circles, it has been days
g - if we did do this, what would we tell people
h - I am organized and methodical to a fault and totally uncomfortable with feelings and with discussions that don't have an end point or an action item and I am not dealing well with this, how do I be better with this and these discussions and being open
thank you in advance
bonus question: he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy; I think that is the only way I'd be comfortable. he wants us to trust each other and be honest with each other. I will say he is a scrupulously, scrupulously honest and open guy. I have a hard time communicating (or even recognizing) all my feelings, and am also more comfortable hiding things and evading the truth. He will tell me anything and everything, so I'm not like...worried about him doing things and hiding them. again: who is the wrong one here (I'm only sort of joking)
Wow, so much drama, a long distance, and you've been together since you were basically children. Both of you move on. You'll look back on this relationship and laugh in a few years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:08 AM on February 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:08 AM on February 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
Also, a question: do you guys have an end date for the long distance? Because you don't mention one. And if you have no plans to move closer to each other, for god's sake end it now.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [35 favorites]
Opening a relationship can work when both parties are on board. This isn't one of those cases. I would say, tell him it's monogamy or nothing, but I think it's a lost cause; the two of you are not on the same page or even in the same book at this point. I'm sorry but I think you have to end it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
What's the end game of the relationship, are you guys going to get married? Are you long distance for a long duration of time? What is preventing him from moving to you, or you moving back, or the two of you being physically together again?
My answer would vary from breakup to wait it out based upon what you both want, eventually, and how long you will be apart.
posted by kellyblah at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
My answer would vary from breakup to wait it out based upon what you both want, eventually, and how long you will be apart.
posted by kellyblah at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not enough information. Why did you move? Why didn't he move? Is there an end date to the LTR?
If you moved permanently to a new city and he chose not to follow you, then yes your relationship is probably over and 'opening up the relationship' is just baby steps toward that final outcome.
posted by crazy with stars at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
If you moved permanently to a new city and he chose not to follow you, then yes your relationship is probably over and 'opening up the relationship' is just baby steps toward that final outcome.
posted by crazy with stars at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [8 favorites]
You are not crazy. Don't let his petulant pouting over not being able to have his cake and eat it too get to you.
I agree with roomthreeseventeen - I think you should let him go if he's not happy with LTR monogamy. There is someone else out there for you BETTER than this guy. Who wants what you want, without the drama. Trust me.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:12 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
I agree with roomthreeseventeen - I think you should let him go if he's not happy with LTR monogamy. There is someone else out there for you BETTER than this guy. Who wants what you want, without the drama. Trust me.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:12 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
It sounds like the only option that would work for both of you (given the details in the question) is him moving to your city. Which may not work for other reasons.
It's clear that you don't want an open relationship. Definitely don't do that. Poly/non-monogamy are HARD even for many people who actively want it.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:13 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's clear that you don't want an open relationship. Definitely don't do that. Poly/non-monogamy are HARD even for many people who actively want it.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:13 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you stay together and eventually get married, you run the very real risk of him blaming you for not letting him "experience life". In my experience, if someone even talks about wanting out, let them go. It will hurt like hell, but overall it will hurt less than living for years with someone's bitterness and resentment over being "forced" to do something they didn't want to do. He's basically told you what he wants, but in a cowardly way - he's trying to get you to do the dirty work of breaking up with him, so that he doesn't feel like an asshole for breaking up with you.
posted by vignettist at 8:16 AM on February 12, 2016 [24 favorites]
posted by vignettist at 8:16 AM on February 12, 2016 [24 favorites]
I feel fucking crazy. I don't want to be in an open relationship.
I'm like 85% sure I cannot emotionally handle [sleeping with other people].
The idea of him dating, being close to someone else -- I can't.
[seeing his new fuckboddy on Facebook] would drive me to pieces
For the love of god, do not do this. You don't want to. YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
am I a horrible person, who is the horrible one jesus christ
we are going in circles, it has been days
I am not dealing well with this, how do I be better with this
He is trying to pressure you into doing something you are not ok with. You are not a "horrible person" and you have no obligation to "deal well with this" or "be better about it."
Finally:
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
FUCK THIS.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:17 AM on February 12, 2016 [49 favorites]
I'm like 85% sure I cannot emotionally handle [sleeping with other people].
The idea of him dating, being close to someone else -- I can't.
[seeing his new fuckboddy on Facebook] would drive me to pieces
For the love of god, do not do this. You don't want to. YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
am I a horrible person, who is the horrible one jesus christ
we are going in circles, it has been days
I am not dealing well with this, how do I be better with this
He is trying to pressure you into doing something you are not ok with. You are not a "horrible person" and you have no obligation to "deal well with this" or "be better about it."
Finally:
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
FUCK THIS.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:17 AM on February 12, 2016 [49 favorites]
Hey, you're not nuts. If this isn't something that you're totally 100% on board with, you shouldn't do it.
I'm in a long distance relationship and I really am happy with it - I have a lot of freedom, so does he. In fact I'm sometimes scared about what will happen when we close the distance and he moves here. But if he wanted to fuck other people while still with me I would be crushed. And I would not be able to handle it. And I would break up with him so that I could have the relationship I want and need - one that is monogamous - and so that he could do whatever.
He dropped this big old bomb on you: "I'm unhappy, I want to fuck other people, if you say no I'll just maintain the status quo and stay unhappy with you..." Like, no, what the fuck? That's not a relationship; he's creating this weird hostage situation. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
Let him go. You'll find someone who treats you and your feelings a lot better. I promise. There are lots of people who can and do have successful open relationships, but I can guarantee you that literally none of them started like this.
Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 8:18 AM on February 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
I'm in a long distance relationship and I really am happy with it - I have a lot of freedom, so does he. In fact I'm sometimes scared about what will happen when we close the distance and he moves here. But if he wanted to fuck other people while still with me I would be crushed. And I would not be able to handle it. And I would break up with him so that I could have the relationship I want and need - one that is monogamous - and so that he could do whatever.
He dropped this big old bomb on you: "I'm unhappy, I want to fuck other people, if you say no I'll just maintain the status quo and stay unhappy with you..." Like, no, what the fuck? That's not a relationship; he's creating this weird hostage situation. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
Let him go. You'll find someone who treats you and your feelings a lot better. I promise. There are lots of people who can and do have successful open relationships, but I can guarantee you that literally none of them started like this.
Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 8:18 AM on February 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
It sounds like it's time to break up. You are incompatible *at this time* *under these circumstances.* Relationships don't have to have a bad guy to end.
posted by headnsouth at 8:19 AM on February 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 8:19 AM on February 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
You aren't crazy, and you aren't "uncool" for not wanting an open relationship. This is shitty. My stomach clenched in sympathy for you reading this!
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
HAHAHAHAHA, fuck no x 1,000,000 then. He just wants to, like, feel his way around this and play jazz? Too bad, and also, fuck this guy. I hate this guy. I don't want you to date this guy anymore! The functional open relationships I have seen have scrupulously laid-out rules, like to the point of being WILDLY UNSEXY. That's the only way it works. Imagine you are on the edge of a forest, like a really dark and brambly one, and people have made it through but not many and the ones who did were armed with like flashlights and GPS trackers and space blankets and shit. YOU'RE LIKE "CAN I BRING THIS ONE SMALL PAPER MAP?" AND HE IS BEING LIKE "OH, WE DON'T NEED A MAP, DO WE? THAT DOESN'T SOUND FUN!"
But he keeps saying that if I don't want it, we won't do it, we'll stay with the status quo. The status quo is making him unhappy which is making me unhappy.
I am sorry. I am sorry you're both unhappy but I am mostly sorry you're unhappy. You're at a time in your life and in the length of your relationship where you're basically at a crossroads; unless you both explicitly agree that the status quo is great and you're both happy (which you don't), the general expectation is that things get a lot more serious or they end. And when it's been a long relationship and things are still okay-ish, the idea of ending it is incredibly hard to acknowledge. Saying the words "I want to break up" can seem impossibly cruel, so people will twist themselves into insane pretzels via their actions to try to bring about the same result without having to say the cruel words. This may be what he's doing. If that's the case, agreeing to an open relationship you vehemently do not want will not fix anything, it will just prolong your unhappiness and also very likely inject a new flavor of misery into things for a while.
again: who is the wrong one here
Not you.
posted by superfluousm at 8:26 AM on February 12, 2016 [74 favorites]
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
HAHAHAHAHA, fuck no x 1,000,000 then. He just wants to, like, feel his way around this and play jazz? Too bad, and also, fuck this guy. I hate this guy. I don't want you to date this guy anymore! The functional open relationships I have seen have scrupulously laid-out rules, like to the point of being WILDLY UNSEXY. That's the only way it works. Imagine you are on the edge of a forest, like a really dark and brambly one, and people have made it through but not many and the ones who did were armed with like flashlights and GPS trackers and space blankets and shit. YOU'RE LIKE "CAN I BRING THIS ONE SMALL PAPER MAP?" AND HE IS BEING LIKE "OH, WE DON'T NEED A MAP, DO WE? THAT DOESN'T SOUND FUN!"
But he keeps saying that if I don't want it, we won't do it, we'll stay with the status quo. The status quo is making him unhappy which is making me unhappy.
I am sorry. I am sorry you're both unhappy but I am mostly sorry you're unhappy. You're at a time in your life and in the length of your relationship where you're basically at a crossroads; unless you both explicitly agree that the status quo is great and you're both happy (which you don't), the general expectation is that things get a lot more serious or they end. And when it's been a long relationship and things are still okay-ish, the idea of ending it is incredibly hard to acknowledge. Saying the words "I want to break up" can seem impossibly cruel, so people will twist themselves into insane pretzels via their actions to try to bring about the same result without having to say the cruel words. This may be what he's doing. If that's the case, agreeing to an open relationship you vehemently do not want will not fix anything, it will just prolong your unhappiness and also very likely inject a new flavor of misery into things for a while.
again: who is the wrong one here
Not you.
posted by superfluousm at 8:26 AM on February 12, 2016 [74 favorites]
So the stated problem in your relationship is the long distance.
Okay. His proposed solution, non-monogamy, does not work for you (WHICH IS TOTALLY LEGITIMATE JESUS CHRIST). Are there any other solutions? Can you move closer? Visit more often? End the long-distance aspect entirely and live in the same town? Explore those avenues first, but man, you are under zero obligation to open up a relationship just because it would work for your partner and implying that you ought to is shitty, shitty behavior.
posted by lydhre at 8:28 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Okay. His proposed solution, non-monogamy, does not work for you (WHICH IS TOTALLY LEGITIMATE JESUS CHRIST). Are there any other solutions? Can you move closer? Visit more often? End the long-distance aspect entirely and live in the same town? Explore those avenues first, but man, you are under zero obligation to open up a relationship just because it would work for your partner and implying that you ought to is shitty, shitty behavior.
posted by lydhre at 8:28 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
The answer to this relationship's problems is not to add more people. If a closed relationship with you isn't making him happy, and you don't want an open one, y'all need to break up. It's sad and everything, but in either of his "solutions" one of you will be unhappy anyway. Best to rip the bandaid off.
posted by hollyholly at 8:30 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by hollyholly at 8:30 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does he have friends (probably male friends would be best) he can hang out with for "social support"? If not, he should seek some. Maybe he should (I am not joking) join a club. If he's just sitting around obsessing about how lonely he is, there are other solutions than dating.
posted by amtho at 8:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 8:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
he said he'd rather stay in our current relationship than risk losing me, but he's unhappy.
LOL. I'm sure he is unhappy! Don't you understand that all he wants is for you to be his emotional mommy, there for him and loving him unconditionally, while he screws other women with absolutely no rules governing those liaisons? So sad for him.
He wants to break up with you, but he's too chicken to examine his own motivations and emotions regarding your relationship so he is (unbeknownst to him because he clearly isn't super emotionally intelligent) trying to force your hand and make you do the hard work of actually breaking up.
Which you should do. It sucks for you that it has come to this, but you need to be the adult here and do the dumping. I know it seems impossible right now, but you will meet other men who are better matches for you than this guy. And when you do, you'll look back at this situation with amazement that you even considered this arrangement.
posted by scantee at 8:40 AM on February 12, 2016 [32 favorites]
LOL. I'm sure he is unhappy! Don't you understand that all he wants is for you to be his emotional mommy, there for him and loving him unconditionally, while he screws other women with absolutely no rules governing those liaisons? So sad for him.
He wants to break up with you, but he's too chicken to examine his own motivations and emotions regarding your relationship so he is (unbeknownst to him because he clearly isn't super emotionally intelligent) trying to force your hand and make you do the hard work of actually breaking up.
Which you should do. It sucks for you that it has come to this, but you need to be the adult here and do the dumping. I know it seems impossible right now, but you will meet other men who are better matches for you than this guy. And when you do, you'll look back at this situation with amazement that you even considered this arrangement.
posted by scantee at 8:40 AM on February 12, 2016 [32 favorites]
I don't want to be in an open relationship.
This is the very best reason not to be in an open relationship.
I mean, there's a lot of other great reasons not to do this. Like, look, I'm poly myself and I think it can be a good thing for a lot of people, but let's be real. Opening up an existing relationship when neither of you has poly experience is very, very hard. Doing poly in a serious, committed long-distance relationship is very, very hard. Doing poly without the social support that comes from having poly friends is hard. In general, "This relationships is not working well for one of us and we think that poly will help" is a recipe for disaster, as is "Let's not have any of those boring square rules and labels."
But whatever — all those practical issues aren't even relevant here. Because you don't even want to do this. Which means you shouldn't, end of story, and your partner should listen to that.
Healthy open relationships are not possible unless both people sincerely, enthusiastically want to be in an open relationship. There is nothing wrong with him for wanting it. But if he can't respect the fact that you don't want it, then he's the problem here, not you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:41 AM on February 12, 2016 [25 favorites]
This is the very best reason not to be in an open relationship.
I mean, there's a lot of other great reasons not to do this. Like, look, I'm poly myself and I think it can be a good thing for a lot of people, but let's be real. Opening up an existing relationship when neither of you has poly experience is very, very hard. Doing poly in a serious, committed long-distance relationship is very, very hard. Doing poly without the social support that comes from having poly friends is hard. In general, "This relationships is not working well for one of us and we think that poly will help" is a recipe for disaster, as is "Let's not have any of those boring square rules and labels."
But whatever — all those practical issues aren't even relevant here. Because you don't even want to do this. Which means you shouldn't, end of story, and your partner should listen to that.
Healthy open relationships are not possible unless both people sincerely, enthusiastically want to be in an open relationship. There is nothing wrong with him for wanting it. But if he can't respect the fact that you don't want it, then he's the problem here, not you.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:41 AM on February 12, 2016 [25 favorites]
"Relationship broken! Solution - add more people!" rarely if ever works. More people equals more complications, not fewer. And the nonmonogamous couples I've known who started out with "we don't need no stinkin' rules!" soon found out they needed those rules, and needed to implement them quickly, if they were to stay together.
Is there an end date for the long-distance part of the relationship? Very few long-distance relationships can stay that way forever. People wind up either living together or close by, or breaking up.
Likewise, "I need monogamy" is not an ultimatum. It's a statement of your needs and boundaries. Ultimatums get a bad name, but not having needs and boundaries is just as bad. As I see it, the difference between "ultimatum" and "statement of needs and boundaries" is that ultimatums are blamey and threatening, but boundary statements are calm, fact-centered, and incorporate "I" - "I need to be in a monogamous relationship. Open relationships don't work for me. If we break up it's because I want a relationship that will give me what I need - monogamy. Can we work together on this?"
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:44 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there an end date for the long-distance part of the relationship? Very few long-distance relationships can stay that way forever. People wind up either living together or close by, or breaking up.
Likewise, "I need monogamy" is not an ultimatum. It's a statement of your needs and boundaries. Ultimatums get a bad name, but not having needs and boundaries is just as bad. As I see it, the difference between "ultimatum" and "statement of needs and boundaries" is that ultimatums are blamey and threatening, but boundary statements are calm, fact-centered, and incorporate "I" - "I need to be in a monogamous relationship. Open relationships don't work for me. If we break up it's because I want a relationship that will give me what I need - monogamy. Can we work together on this?"
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:44 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Never agree to relationship terms that go against your values. You'll resent your partner for painting you into an ethical and/or moral corner, and feel disappointed in yourself for allowing them to do it. That destroys intimacy and trust, and one cannot truly love anyone without those things.
You have to break up with him because you cannot agree to these terms. I'm sorry. You'll be okay. And also? You get to make choices. He doesn't get all the say in how the relationship is going to go, and you will feel empowered in the long run if you act on your true feelings and don't capitulate just to hold onto him.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 8:49 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
You have to break up with him because you cannot agree to these terms. I'm sorry. You'll be okay. And also? You get to make choices. He doesn't get all the say in how the relationship is going to go, and you will feel empowered in the long run if you act on your true feelings and don't capitulate just to hold onto him.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 8:49 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I had a friend who was casually seeing a guy like this— he was so “genuine” and “open”.
Oh, except my friend was the person he was hooking up with because his main girlfriend was long distance and they had an open relationship. Except it later turned out that he didn’t actually have an open relationship with his girlfriend. He had decided he was going to have an open relationship, but his girlfriend didn’t agree to it, so he decided to have one anyway.
Be careful OP. Someone who treats your honest responses to his suggestions as “ultimatums” is not acting in good faith.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:02 AM on February 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
Oh, except my friend was the person he was hooking up with because his main girlfriend was long distance and they had an open relationship. Except it later turned out that he didn’t actually have an open relationship with his girlfriend. He had decided he was going to have an open relationship, but his girlfriend didn’t agree to it, so he decided to have one anyway.
Be careful OP. Someone who treats your honest responses to his suggestions as “ultimatums” is not acting in good faith.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:02 AM on February 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
c - does opening up relationships ever work?
d - does opening up long distance relationships ever work?
c - yes, if both parties consent to it without coercion, which includes whining, guilting, sulking, accusations of unfair ultimatums, insisting that one party is unable to trust, etc
d - see above
posted by poffin boffin at 9:06 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
d - does opening up long distance relationships ever work?
c - yes, if both parties consent to it without coercion, which includes whining, guilting, sulking, accusations of unfair ultimatums, insisting that one party is unable to trust, etc
d - see above
posted by poffin boffin at 9:06 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
a. What the fuck
posted by AugustWest at 9:09 AM on February 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 9:09 AM on February 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
FUCK THIS.
I would like to second this reaction. Mr. Freedom and I are starting to move toward nonmonogamy and I can't imagine how that would work without, like, talking about it and setting boundaries. As a matter of fact, he's going out of town this weekend and neither he nor I will be having sexytimes with other people because that's a boundary for me - hooking up with someone else while we're at a distance. Maybe it won't be in the future, but we're both cool with the idea that it isn't ok now.
He dropped this big old bomb on you: "I'm unhappy, I want to fuck other people, if you say no I'll just maintain the status quo and stay unhappy with you..." Like, no, what the fuck?
This is exactly how my best friend's marriage broke up - he dropped that bomb on her and she agreed to open up. The marriage took a year to completely fall apart though, as she watched him date girl after girl, slowly dying inside. He finally fell in love with one of them and that was that.
I don't want to be in an open relationship.
This is the very best reason not to be in an open relationship.
Also this.
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
FUCK THIS.
I would like to second this reaction. Mr. Freedom and I are starting to move toward nonmonogamy and I can't imagine how that would work without, like, talking about it and setting boundaries. As a matter of fact, he's going out of town this weekend and neither he nor I will be having sexytimes with other people because that's a boundary for me - hooking up with someone else while we're at a distance. Maybe it won't be in the future, but we're both cool with the idea that it isn't ok now.
He dropped this big old bomb on you: "I'm unhappy, I want to fuck other people, if you say no I'll just maintain the status quo and stay unhappy with you..." Like, no, what the fuck?
This is exactly how my best friend's marriage broke up - he dropped that bomb on her and she agreed to open up. The marriage took a year to completely fall apart though, as she watched him date girl after girl, slowly dying inside. He finally fell in love with one of them and that was that.
I don't want to be in an open relationship.
This is the very best reason not to be in an open relationship.
Also this.
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:10 AM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
b - WHAT the ACTUAL fuck, like, is this a non-horrible thing to do, am I a horrible person, who is the horrible one jesus christ
c - does opening up relationships ever work?
Nobody has to be the horrible one! Open relationships can certainly work, and even moving from a monogamous to an open relationship can work with a LOT of communication and very very specific and detailed discussion of boundaries and
bonus question: he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
WELP (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
posted by babelfish at 9:11 AM on February 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
c - does opening up relationships ever work?
Nobody has to be the horrible one! Open relationships can certainly work, and even moving from a monogamous to an open relationship can work with a LOT of communication and very very specific and detailed discussion of boundaries and
bonus question: he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
WELP (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
posted by babelfish at 9:11 AM on February 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hi! I'm in an open relationship. It works great. I would not be in *this* open relationship. You need rules, you need all the fucking rules and all the communication until maybe you don't need the rules once you've established the base of trust and respect for each other's boundaries and blah blah blah. At the start you need the shit out of the rules.
He is being a dick by forcing you to be the bad guy and break up with him. You should break up with him.
posted by corvine at 9:16 AM on February 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
He is being a dick by forcing you to be the bad guy and break up with him. You should break up with him.
posted by corvine at 9:16 AM on February 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
I can't believe this hasn't been said but DTMFA.
posted by josher71 at 9:17 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by josher71 at 9:17 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah I have a pair of friends who are in an open relationship and it seems to work for them. But the reason is they have rules. Like, a ton of rules. Their relationship requires so much open and honest communication and both parties want it.
An open relationship is not for you. You don't want it. He doesn't want there to be rules. Fuck that noise. End it with him. You'll thank yourself later.
posted by FireFountain at 9:17 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
An open relationship is not for you. You don't want it. He doesn't want there to be rules. Fuck that noise. End it with him. You'll thank yourself later.
posted by FireFountain at 9:17 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Open relationships are FILLED with rules, that's how they work. But it's nothing to you because you don't want to be in an open relationship.
So it sounds like you're headed to breaking up frankly. If he's not happy, and you don't have an end-game for how this turns out, it's time for him to move on.
One thing I'll ask you is, WHY does this work for you? For most folks the object is to be together in a committed relationship (however that looks to you.) Do you want to be together with him in a committed relationship? If not, tell him, he seems to want something you don't and it's not fair to keep him hanging on.
If what you want is a perpetual LDR, then you need to come clean about it. It's not what most people want. It's okay if that's what YOU want, but you can't impose it on other people. So be 100% honest with yourself.
If you want my honest opinion, it's time to break up. It's hard because you've grown up together and you have a shared history. Of course it's hard to pull the plug after so long, but I'll just say it. If you wanted to be together, you'd be working on a plan to make that happen. I posit that you like the LDR because there are a lot of ways he doesn't fit into your life and it's easier to do your relationship by appointment.
So break up. It's going to be SO EASY to go No Contact. You're not going to run into him at your local pub, you probably don't have a combined friend group.
Don't stay with this guy because you're lonely. That's a shitty reason to be in a relationship. Being in this relationship has kept you from really connecting with folks in your new city. So concentrate on getting out, mixing, mingling. Do classes, workouts, volunteer, anything that has you in groups of people. I suspect after missing the connection for a little while, you'll be moving on quite quickly.
But this relationship, this one's past it's expiration date.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:18 AM on February 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
So it sounds like you're headed to breaking up frankly. If he's not happy, and you don't have an end-game for how this turns out, it's time for him to move on.
One thing I'll ask you is, WHY does this work for you? For most folks the object is to be together in a committed relationship (however that looks to you.) Do you want to be together with him in a committed relationship? If not, tell him, he seems to want something you don't and it's not fair to keep him hanging on.
If what you want is a perpetual LDR, then you need to come clean about it. It's not what most people want. It's okay if that's what YOU want, but you can't impose it on other people. So be 100% honest with yourself.
If you want my honest opinion, it's time to break up. It's hard because you've grown up together and you have a shared history. Of course it's hard to pull the plug after so long, but I'll just say it. If you wanted to be together, you'd be working on a plan to make that happen. I posit that you like the LDR because there are a lot of ways he doesn't fit into your life and it's easier to do your relationship by appointment.
So break up. It's going to be SO EASY to go No Contact. You're not going to run into him at your local pub, you probably don't have a combined friend group.
Don't stay with this guy because you're lonely. That's a shitty reason to be in a relationship. Being in this relationship has kept you from really connecting with folks in your new city. So concentrate on getting out, mixing, mingling. Do classes, workouts, volunteer, anything that has you in groups of people. I suspect after missing the connection for a little while, you'll be moving on quite quickly.
But this relationship, this one's past it's expiration date.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:18 AM on February 12, 2016 [9 favorites]
"Relationship broken! Solution - add more people!" rarely if ever works.
YES ALSO THIS. I tried opening up my broken nearly-a-decade-since-teens relationship and it crashed and burned. (Subsequent relationship is happily non-monog.)
1) it is super hard to do
2) it is harder to do when you have a long-established relationship
3) it is harder to do when you have insecurities and there are problems in the relationship
4) it is harder to do the first time you do it
There is no way in hell this goes well. Break up.
posted by corvine at 9:22 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
YES ALSO THIS. I tried opening up my broken nearly-a-decade-since-teens relationship and it crashed and burned. (Subsequent relationship is happily non-monog.)
1) it is super hard to do
2) it is harder to do when you have a long-established relationship
3) it is harder to do when you have insecurities and there are problems in the relationship
4) it is harder to do the first time you do it
There is no way in hell this goes well. Break up.
posted by corvine at 9:22 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
There seems to be this big myth that basically, like, everybody's in an open relationship and you refusing to do so will make you the one person on the entire planet who's just not cool enough to hang.
This is not true.
Most people are not in open relationships.
A whole lot of people "open up the relationship" as a soft breakup. If you were going to successfully have a non-monogamous relationship, it should be something the two of you enthusiastically consented to from the start or under completely theoretical circumstances, as in, "Hey, I don't think I'm monogamous most of the time." "Whoa, neither am I. I'm sure glad we talked about this and are going to work out the boundaries ahead of time and this isn't something one person is springing on the other because his boner is sad!"
He's hedging his bets, hoping you don't realize what he's done, in case he can't get anyone else to sleep with him. This is not how respectful partners do this. He's broken up with you, he's just waiting for you to do all the heavy lifting.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:26 AM on February 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
This is not true.
Most people are not in open relationships.
A whole lot of people "open up the relationship" as a soft breakup. If you were going to successfully have a non-monogamous relationship, it should be something the two of you enthusiastically consented to from the start or under completely theoretical circumstances, as in, "Hey, I don't think I'm monogamous most of the time." "Whoa, neither am I. I'm sure glad we talked about this and are going to work out the boundaries ahead of time and this isn't something one person is springing on the other because his boner is sad!"
He's hedging his bets, hoping you don't realize what he's done, in case he can't get anyone else to sleep with him. This is not how respectful partners do this. He's broken up with you, he's just waiting for you to do all the heavy lifting.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:26 AM on February 12, 2016 [15 favorites]
DO NOT OPEN YOUR RELATIONSHIP, PLEASE!!! I base this answer on a ton of things, but mostly: You yourself have said several times YOU DO NOT WANT THIS.
And I understand, my marriage ended because of a situation almost exactly like this. But.... you aren't poly. You aren't going to be happy. You can't set yourself on fire to keep him warm. Due to such things as limerence and New Relationship Energy, I bet your BF will gush about his new dates. Picture this. Seriously, sit down in a quiet space and think about him dating. Laughing, flirting, having fun with HER. Not you. HER. Did they have sex? Who knows! No rules!!
Can you deal with this? I couldn't. I called it soul crushing.... because it was. I was worth more to put myself through this, day after day, week after week. Once was too many.
posted by Jacen at 9:29 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
And I understand, my marriage ended because of a situation almost exactly like this. But.... you aren't poly. You aren't going to be happy. You can't set yourself on fire to keep him warm. Due to such things as limerence and New Relationship Energy, I bet your BF will gush about his new dates. Picture this. Seriously, sit down in a quiet space and think about him dating. Laughing, flirting, having fun with HER. Not you. HER. Did they have sex? Who knows! No rules!!
Can you deal with this? I couldn't. I called it soul crushing.... because it was. I was worth more to put myself through this, day after day, week after week. Once was too many.
posted by Jacen at 9:29 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sure opening up CAN work. It's a big world generating a lot of statistical possibilities.
But reading your post it sounds like you'd be happier peeling your skin off than dealing with him fucking other people.... And that's awesome, you're great and totally in the right to feel that way.
In my experience non-monogamy is never a solution to anything. It only works when it's a thing both people are excited, interested and invested in; for themselves and each other.
posted by French Fry at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
But reading your post it sounds like you'd be happier peeling your skin off than dealing with him fucking other people.... And that's awesome, you're great and totally in the right to feel that way.
In my experience non-monogamy is never a solution to anything. It only works when it's a thing both people are excited, interested and invested in; for themselves and each other.
posted by French Fry at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think "Either you move here or we break up" would be an excellent ultimatum, under the circumstances.
posted by yarntheory at 9:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by yarntheory at 9:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
The best case scenario for you is that you meet a guy where you are, who is awesome and loving and wants a real relationship with you (potentially leading to marriage/long term if you want that.)
Regardless of what happens with your relationship, I would start going out with the intention of meeting people and hopefully eventually meeting this guy. Make as many friends as you can and stay open to all social opportunities- many times I’ve met eligible men through friends-of-friends.
This is the missing piece in the puzzle here that will make opening up your relationship, or separating, far less painful.
I have to be honest, I think you and your boyfriend are heading towards eventually breaking up. If he has limited sexual experience before you, that’s honestly difficult for a lot of people to overcome. They will always wonder, “what if?” and “did I really get to be young?” And those are valid concerns. It sounds like he’s trying to tell you he can’t be there for you in the same way he was in the past.
Even if you end up staying together, read the signs on the wall now- get your life in order, make your apartment look nice, get a haircut, and start going out and meeting people. If you stay together with your boyfriend, at least you will have a lot of new friends. And if you break up, you’re a lot farther along towards meeting your next boyfriend and not sitting around in your apartment crying for months on end.
posted by quincunx at 9:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Regardless of what happens with your relationship, I would start going out with the intention of meeting people and hopefully eventually meeting this guy. Make as many friends as you can and stay open to all social opportunities- many times I’ve met eligible men through friends-of-friends.
This is the missing piece in the puzzle here that will make opening up your relationship, or separating, far less painful.
I have to be honest, I think you and your boyfriend are heading towards eventually breaking up. If he has limited sexual experience before you, that’s honestly difficult for a lot of people to overcome. They will always wonder, “what if?” and “did I really get to be young?” And those are valid concerns. It sounds like he’s trying to tell you he can’t be there for you in the same way he was in the past.
Even if you end up staying together, read the signs on the wall now- get your life in order, make your apartment look nice, get a haircut, and start going out and meeting people. If you stay together with your boyfriend, at least you will have a lot of new friends. And if you break up, you’re a lot farther along towards meeting your next boyfriend and not sitting around in your apartment crying for months on end.
posted by quincunx at 9:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
You need to break up. I'm really sorry, but you need to break up.
You two are doing the thing where you both know you need to break up, but you can't handle that reality so you are trying to find some horribly unworkable compromise that will just end causing a lot of pain and will then explode your relationship leaving you angry and bitter about what was otherwise a wonderful relationship that has simply run its course.
Maybe you'll break up and get back together one day. Maybe you'll break up and still be able to be friends. Maybe you'll try this and tie yourself into knots and then explode and break up and hate each other and never talk again. Which one do you want?
Open relationships can work. They don't work for people who don't want to be in an open relationship and do it as a stop gap measure to try and keep a relationship going past its expiration date.
I get it, you have been dating this man for your entire adult life. He is a huge part of your life and who you are, but you both need a change. This isn't working anymore. End this as friends. You are both unhappy and his proposed solution would make you even more unhappy. It's going to be hard and scary, but it'll be better to do it on your own terms. Break up. Take a break from each other for at least 6 months and go and see what is out there.
posted by whoaali at 9:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
You two are doing the thing where you both know you need to break up, but you can't handle that reality so you are trying to find some horribly unworkable compromise that will just end causing a lot of pain and will then explode your relationship leaving you angry and bitter about what was otherwise a wonderful relationship that has simply run its course.
Maybe you'll break up and get back together one day. Maybe you'll break up and still be able to be friends. Maybe you'll try this and tie yourself into knots and then explode and break up and hate each other and never talk again. Which one do you want?
Open relationships can work. They don't work for people who don't want to be in an open relationship and do it as a stop gap measure to try and keep a relationship going past its expiration date.
I get it, you have been dating this man for your entire adult life. He is a huge part of your life and who you are, but you both need a change. This isn't working anymore. End this as friends. You are both unhappy and his proposed solution would make you even more unhappy. It's going to be hard and scary, but it'll be better to do it on your own terms. Break up. Take a break from each other for at least 6 months and go and see what is out there.
posted by whoaali at 9:36 AM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Oh god, like fuck this guy SO HARD. You cannot have a functional open relationship "just kind of, you know, feeling how it goes!" The only open or poly relationships I have ever seen functional have all had a TON of rules. Rules about who gets which days and holidays. Rules about whether or not they wear a condom. Rules about talking about lives. Rules about money. Rules about priorities. All kinds of rules. Because this stuff is REALLY HARD and you need rules to help you through.
What I really want to know is, why isn't he trying to move to come to you? Why did you move? What's the plan?
posted by corb at 9:44 AM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
What I really want to know is, why isn't he trying to move to come to you? Why did you move? What's the plan?
posted by corb at 9:44 AM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I hadn't seen the "Bonus Question" on first pass... Yeah to hell with this guy. Like Baptist tent revival hell.
posted by French Fry at 9:55 AM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by French Fry at 9:55 AM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
All relationships have and need rules. You don't notice them as much with monogamous relationships because the rules are mostly inherited from societal standards and/or tacitly agreed on by both of you as the relationship develops. Opening up a long-standing monogamous relationship is, in effect, changing those implicit and explicit rules. He's proposing to cross out big chunks of what you mutually understand the relationship to be, and shrugging when you ask him what he expects to replace it with. He's attempting to renegotiate the terms to, like, you know, whatever, c'mon don't you trust me? Not acceptable.
And you'd think he'd at least try to make this palatable to you, to meet you in the middle... but no, he's not even doing that.
It is absolutely fine and good for you to be not okay with opening up the relationship. Nonmonogamy is not a higher evolution or something. Insisting on monogamy doesn't mean you're uptight or a prude or you don't trust him or love him. It means you know what you want and what you can live with and won't compromise on that. That's good! That's great, even! It's not great for the relationship, but then again, the relationship is not great for either you or your boyfriend.
I don't think renegotiating the terms of this relationship is going to save it. It's just going to prolong and complicate the end.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:03 AM on February 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
And you'd think he'd at least try to make this palatable to you, to meet you in the middle... but no, he's not even doing that.
It is absolutely fine and good for you to be not okay with opening up the relationship. Nonmonogamy is not a higher evolution or something. Insisting on monogamy doesn't mean you're uptight or a prude or you don't trust him or love him. It means you know what you want and what you can live with and won't compromise on that. That's good! That's great, even! It's not great for the relationship, but then again, the relationship is not great for either you or your boyfriend.
I don't think renegotiating the terms of this relationship is going to save it. It's just going to prolong and complicate the end.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:03 AM on February 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
e - do you think I could be okay with this? I have a lot of clinical anxiety and OCD and like can really see myself being like "oh my god that girl he just friended on Facebook is skinnier than me, oh my god" and that would drive me to pieces because I'm nuts.
The machine-gunners upthread already opened fire as soon as this idea tried to establish a beachhead, but let me just chime in here. Your boyfriend knows you have anxiety issues. He still broached this idea with you, and didn't want to establish any ground rules that might allay your fears and, y'know, help you with your clinically-diagnosed health disorder. Fuck this guy with a rake.
I kind of get the impression from this question that this dude has also spent some serious time gaslighting you into worrying that your (completely reasonable, widely-held) concerns are somehow deviant or unreasonable. They are not. Maybe you've just talked yourself into this level of anxiety, but I seriously doubt it. I'm mad at this guy on your behalf, anon. If you're looking for permission to dump his ass, I hereby grant it to you.
posted by Mayor West at 10:13 AM on February 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
The machine-gunners upthread already opened fire as soon as this idea tried to establish a beachhead, but let me just chime in here. Your boyfriend knows you have anxiety issues. He still broached this idea with you, and didn't want to establish any ground rules that might allay your fears and, y'know, help you with your clinically-diagnosed health disorder. Fuck this guy with a rake.
I kind of get the impression from this question that this dude has also spent some serious time gaslighting you into worrying that your (completely reasonable, widely-held) concerns are somehow deviant or unreasonable. They are not. Maybe you've just talked yourself into this level of anxiety, but I seriously doubt it. I'm mad at this guy on your behalf, anon. If you're looking for permission to dump his ass, I hereby grant it to you.
posted by Mayor West at 10:13 AM on February 12, 2016 [16 favorites]
Firstly, I may be in the minority here, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who only sees his girlfriend of 10 years once every three months, to feel as though he needs more sex and at least discuss the possibility of opening things up.
Secondly, he has come to you first rather than sneaking around having sex with other people behind your back (if you trust his word) so I have to give him props for that.
However, as much as I believe he's not an ogre for expressing his desire to have more intimacy in his life, he has definitely gone about it the wrong way. You two are so very young, and have spent the majority of your adult lives as a couple, so I'm not surprised he has a "visceral" reaction to the prospect of you breaking up... but don't be blinded by this. It's always hard saying goodbye to someone you have shared so much with, but people do it every day... every. day.
It certainly seems as though he wants to have his cake and eat it too, and ultimately, you're the one who would suffer in this scenario since you're not on board with it and he's not actively trying to make a compromise that works for you. It's all about him, and that's a red flag.
If he needs more than what you're giving and you don't want to change the status quo, then I think you guys should break up since obviously you're heading in very different directions.
posted by JenThePro at 10:27 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Secondly, he has come to you first rather than sneaking around having sex with other people behind your back (if you trust his word) so I have to give him props for that.
However, as much as I believe he's not an ogre for expressing his desire to have more intimacy in his life, he has definitely gone about it the wrong way. You two are so very young, and have spent the majority of your adult lives as a couple, so I'm not surprised he has a "visceral" reaction to the prospect of you breaking up... but don't be blinded by this. It's always hard saying goodbye to someone you have shared so much with, but people do it every day... every. day.
It certainly seems as though he wants to have his cake and eat it too, and ultimately, you're the one who would suffer in this scenario since you're not on board with it and he's not actively trying to make a compromise that works for you. It's all about him, and that's a red flag.
If he needs more than what you're giving and you don't want to change the status quo, then I think you guys should break up since obviously you're heading in very different directions.
posted by JenThePro at 10:27 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's sounds like you've grown up together and are now afraid to end things, so this sleeping with other people is a "soft" way of ending it. So just rip off the bandaid and end it.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:30 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:30 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
I also think you guys should consider breaking up. Partly because this guy doesn't have a clue about how open relationships work but mostly because your boyfriend cares more about sex than you do. That doesn't make either of you bad people. It just means that you are particularly mismatched sexually now that you live apart. I'm perfectly willing to believe that your boyfriend is merely ignorant rather than evil when it comes to open relationships. In the end, it doesn't matter. You guys are no longer complementary. You shouldn't be held hostage to his desire for an open relationship; he shouldn't be held hostage to your desire for monogamy. For some of us, sex is an extremely important component of our lives and compromising that makes us unhappy. I don't think either of you are in the wrong. Your relationship used to work; it doesn't work anymore. Time to move on.
posted by Bella Donna at 10:33 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 10:33 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Firstly, I may be in the minority here, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who only sees his girlfriend of 10 years once every three months, to feel as though he needs more sex and at least discuss the possibility of opening things up.
He can feel however he wants about it, but the fact that the OP said they've been "going in circles for days" and the boyfriend "doesn't want to have rules" and feels that the OP's discomfort with this idea is an "ultimatum"? He is putting pressure on her to agree to this and that is not cool.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:38 AM on February 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
He can feel however he wants about it, but the fact that the OP said they've been "going in circles for days" and the boyfriend "doesn't want to have rules" and feels that the OP's discomfort with this idea is an "ultimatum"? He is putting pressure on her to agree to this and that is not cool.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:38 AM on February 12, 2016 [10 favorites]
He can feel however he wants about it, but the fact that the OP said they've been "going in circles for days" and the boyfriend "doesn't want to have rules" and feels that the OP's discomfort with this idea is an "ultimatum"? He is putting pressure on her to agree to this and that is not cool.
Yeah I really agree with this. He's the one making the ultimatum and he just won't own up to it. He pretending to be the good guy instead of owning up to the fact that he's subjecting the OP to emotional blackmail by saying "ok, I will continue on in misery if you don't agree to this, but it'll be your fault I'm unhappy and therefore, you are the selfish one doing this to me, not the other way around."
posted by whoaali at 10:44 AM on February 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yeah I really agree with this. He's the one making the ultimatum and he just won't own up to it. He pretending to be the good guy instead of owning up to the fact that he's subjecting the OP to emotional blackmail by saying "ok, I will continue on in misery if you don't agree to this, but it'll be your fault I'm unhappy and therefore, you are the selfish one doing this to me, not the other way around."
posted by whoaali at 10:44 AM on February 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
Open relationships can work just fine for people who want them. You don't. And your boyfriend is a) not sensitive to that and b) straight-up ruling out the things that might even *begin* to make this anything approaching workable - communication, boundaries, and your comfort.
This sounds like a case of incompatibility that's probably not possible to overcome. It sounds like time to separate while you can still look back on the good years fondly, rather than spend another year shredding each other long distance for probably the same result, but more painful.
posted by Stacey at 10:47 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
This sounds like a case of incompatibility that's probably not possible to overcome. It sounds like time to separate while you can still look back on the good years fondly, rather than spend another year shredding each other long distance for probably the same result, but more painful.
posted by Stacey at 10:47 AM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think this boils down to the fact that he's unhappy, he wants to go fishing for something more fulfilling to him (I'm sure it's not a surprise to you to learn that for many/most people, only seeing your life partner once every 3 months is not enough) but he doesn't want to totally cut the cord with you just in case he doesn't find something better.
Here's what I predict:
you say "yes" - he goes exploring other people till he finds one that makes him happier and he dumps you.
you say "no"- he either cheats or, if he's the honest type, explores other people without getting sexual/intimate to gauge compatibility till he finds one he likes better then dumps you, or, if he's the codependent type he keeps in this LTR limbo that makes him miserable and builds up deep resentment against you.
----------
The question for you both is..where is this relationship going? are you happy with doing this LTR thing indefinitely like this? it is not something most people could bear i don't think...
posted by TestamentToGrace at 10:56 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's what I predict:
you say "yes" - he goes exploring other people till he finds one that makes him happier and he dumps you.
you say "no"- he either cheats or, if he's the honest type, explores other people without getting sexual/intimate to gauge compatibility till he finds one he likes better then dumps you, or, if he's the codependent type he keeps in this LTR limbo that makes him miserable and builds up deep resentment against you.
----------
The question for you both is..where is this relationship going? are you happy with doing this LTR thing indefinitely like this? it is not something most people could bear i don't think...
posted by TestamentToGrace at 10:56 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fuck him.. by that I mean, don't fuck him. Leave him. You are absolutely right to stand firm and be honest about how you feel and what you can handle. You're not terrible at all for feeling what you feel. He sounds really immature and his refusal to take your boundaries seriously is very disrespectful. Opening up a relationship can work if both parties want it (and if both are prepared to negotiate over the rules that would make all involved comfortable). This is not one of those situations. DTMFA.
posted by Gray Skies at 11:07 AM on February 12, 2016
posted by Gray Skies at 11:07 AM on February 12, 2016
I've been in a lot of long-distance relationships. All my significant relationships (including my now fiance) have been long-distance at some point. I'm sure people must think I'm being avoidant or something, who knows, but hey, it's not my fault all the interesting men I meet have been from other countries, ok?
So. I'll tell you what I've learned from my long-distance relationships (a lot failed before I found one that did work, and understood what was different about it).
Long distance is hard. It's not for everyone. But monogamous long distance can work. You both need to be on the same page of, "this is my forever person, this is what I want, and this is the plan to be together," and you need an end date and you need to put aside personal gain for the relationship. I don't yearn for companionship; I yearn for his companionship and him. Other people won't do. He feels the same way. As long as we're both on the same page and progressing towards the same goal (being together) then long distance is not hard for us. The only times it felt hard in a LDR for me was when things were unbalanced.
If the long-distance isn't working, it's not necessarily long-distance that's the problem. It's the relationship. Long distance is hard. It's not for everyone. Some people just can't do it. These people shouldn't try. Because unless both parties are 'all in' then long-distance will 100% fail. There's no halfsies with long-distance. There just isn't. It needs a boatload of trust, commitment, and foresight to see it through to the end. It's lonely. It's hard. We as humans like to think love conquers all, and we like to think that sentiment will endure across oceans and time and space and what the heck ever, but that's not realistic. Some people just can't endure it. Sometimes love just isn't enough.
And that's ok, you know? That's just life.
What isn't ok is that your boyfriend wants his cake and he wants to eat it too-- he wants the security of having a long-term girlfriend he already knows and loves, with the added excitement of getting out there and getting laid and having companionship. In addition he wants the safety of looking for something else, while keeping you in reserve; a backup. That's why he's beside himself when you suggest breaking up. Because it's a gamble to let go. Gambling is a risk. You might lose. But don't mistake his fear; the only thing stopping him from leaving today is fear that he won't find someone he likes as much as you. But what if he gets out there and does find someone he likes just as much as you? What if he pulls that slot machine lever and hits the jackpot? And what happens when you're in a position to be together physically? Will he end his side relationships? Dump them and move in with you? Something tells me no. Something tells me he'll find ways to cling to those relationships too, especially since he wants to forgo rule-setting regarding your proposed polyamory. Look, I don't know much about polyamory, but I do know that in all of the successful open relationships I've seen, all expectations and rules are clearly spelled out. The opposite of which is asking for trouble. It's like, polyamory 101. So the fact he wants to avoid rules is a gigantic red flag, by the way. Like, gigantic. It's a neon red flag with another red flag on top of it dancing the rhumba. Because 'no rules' basically means he wants carte blanche to do what the heck he wants with whomever, and when it bothers you, he can say, "well, I didn't know,". It's not only unfair, it's kinda shady too.
It sucks and I'm sorry, but I feel like your relationship is ending. As I said, long-distance isn't for everyone. It's not for him. He can't put his dollar into a slot machine and keep it tied to a string in his jacket pocket just in case. It doesn't work that way. And it doesn't work that way with you. Just like it's ok that long-distance is too hard for some people, it's also ok that an open relationship is not for you. And I think you know it won't be. I've been in this situation once: I was 85% sure I wouldn't be able to emotionally handle hearing about the guy I loved being intimate with someone else. Like you, they wanted companionship and in my case I couldn't hold them back. In time, I convinced myself that I could reason away my hurt. Like, if I told myself that it was only physical with this woman, that it didn't mean anything on his end, that I was still the person he had the emotional connection with, that he would come back to, etc etc, then I could be okay with him getting his 'needs met'. And I convinced myself of this in the end. But let me tell you that when that info got back to me about him with these women? I was so so wrong. I cared. Oh man. 100% of me cared. 120%, even. And it hurt. It was the worst emotional pain. As shitty as a breakup; probably worse. My mind turned against me in ways I don't wish on anyone. I suspect you'll be the same way. I suspect you're trying to convince yourself you'll be okay with this in time because you love him and want him to be happy. I can tell you you won't be okay. You know it, too. It's totally okay to be all or nothing with a relationship. It's good to be aware of your own needs and wants.
So what do you do? There's only two things you can do. Either work on being physically together as soon as possible and make it happen, or break up. Because option C he's proposed? It's not an option for you. And option D--of continued long-distance-- is not an option for him.
You don't explain why you moved and he didn't, but I assume it's because of an opportunity, or work, and he didn't want to give up his life to join you. But there's a fundamental thing about long-distance: It won't end without compromise and sacrifice. Unless somebody sacrifices something--then it'll just endure until the relationship falls apart. You can't bridge distance without someone giving up something-- their life in their home city, their friends, or their job. If neither are willing to do this for the other, then there's no point dragging it out. So I will say, unless this can happen, then it's just time to let go and be with people who can meet your needs better.
It sucks and it will hurt, but it will save you so much wasted time and prolonged heartbreak. Trust me.
Hugs.
posted by Dimes at 11:39 AM on February 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
So. I'll tell you what I've learned from my long-distance relationships (a lot failed before I found one that did work, and understood what was different about it).
Long distance is hard. It's not for everyone. But monogamous long distance can work. You both need to be on the same page of, "this is my forever person, this is what I want, and this is the plan to be together," and you need an end date and you need to put aside personal gain for the relationship. I don't yearn for companionship; I yearn for his companionship and him. Other people won't do. He feels the same way. As long as we're both on the same page and progressing towards the same goal (being together) then long distance is not hard for us. The only times it felt hard in a LDR for me was when things were unbalanced.
If the long-distance isn't working, it's not necessarily long-distance that's the problem. It's the relationship. Long distance is hard. It's not for everyone. Some people just can't do it. These people shouldn't try. Because unless both parties are 'all in' then long-distance will 100% fail. There's no halfsies with long-distance. There just isn't. It needs a boatload of trust, commitment, and foresight to see it through to the end. It's lonely. It's hard. We as humans like to think love conquers all, and we like to think that sentiment will endure across oceans and time and space and what the heck ever, but that's not realistic. Some people just can't endure it. Sometimes love just isn't enough.
And that's ok, you know? That's just life.
What isn't ok is that your boyfriend wants his cake and he wants to eat it too-- he wants the security of having a long-term girlfriend he already knows and loves, with the added excitement of getting out there and getting laid and having companionship. In addition he wants the safety of looking for something else, while keeping you in reserve; a backup. That's why he's beside himself when you suggest breaking up. Because it's a gamble to let go. Gambling is a risk. You might lose. But don't mistake his fear; the only thing stopping him from leaving today is fear that he won't find someone he likes as much as you. But what if he gets out there and does find someone he likes just as much as you? What if he pulls that slot machine lever and hits the jackpot? And what happens when you're in a position to be together physically? Will he end his side relationships? Dump them and move in with you? Something tells me no. Something tells me he'll find ways to cling to those relationships too, especially since he wants to forgo rule-setting regarding your proposed polyamory. Look, I don't know much about polyamory, but I do know that in all of the successful open relationships I've seen, all expectations and rules are clearly spelled out. The opposite of which is asking for trouble. It's like, polyamory 101. So the fact he wants to avoid rules is a gigantic red flag, by the way. Like, gigantic. It's a neon red flag with another red flag on top of it dancing the rhumba. Because 'no rules' basically means he wants carte blanche to do what the heck he wants with whomever, and when it bothers you, he can say, "well, I didn't know,". It's not only unfair, it's kinda shady too.
It sucks and I'm sorry, but I feel like your relationship is ending. As I said, long-distance isn't for everyone. It's not for him. He can't put his dollar into a slot machine and keep it tied to a string in his jacket pocket just in case. It doesn't work that way. And it doesn't work that way with you. Just like it's ok that long-distance is too hard for some people, it's also ok that an open relationship is not for you. And I think you know it won't be. I've been in this situation once: I was 85% sure I wouldn't be able to emotionally handle hearing about the guy I loved being intimate with someone else. Like you, they wanted companionship and in my case I couldn't hold them back. In time, I convinced myself that I could reason away my hurt. Like, if I told myself that it was only physical with this woman, that it didn't mean anything on his end, that I was still the person he had the emotional connection with, that he would come back to, etc etc, then I could be okay with him getting his 'needs met'. And I convinced myself of this in the end. But let me tell you that when that info got back to me about him with these women? I was so so wrong. I cared. Oh man. 100% of me cared. 120%, even. And it hurt. It was the worst emotional pain. As shitty as a breakup; probably worse. My mind turned against me in ways I don't wish on anyone. I suspect you'll be the same way. I suspect you're trying to convince yourself you'll be okay with this in time because you love him and want him to be happy. I can tell you you won't be okay. You know it, too. It's totally okay to be all or nothing with a relationship. It's good to be aware of your own needs and wants.
So what do you do? There's only two things you can do. Either work on being physically together as soon as possible and make it happen, or break up. Because option C he's proposed? It's not an option for you. And option D--of continued long-distance-- is not an option for him.
You don't explain why you moved and he didn't, but I assume it's because of an opportunity, or work, and he didn't want to give up his life to join you. But there's a fundamental thing about long-distance: It won't end without compromise and sacrifice. Unless somebody sacrifices something--then it'll just endure until the relationship falls apart. You can't bridge distance without someone giving up something-- their life in their home city, their friends, or their job. If neither are willing to do this for the other, then there's no point dragging it out. So I will say, unless this can happen, then it's just time to let go and be with people who can meet your needs better.
It sucks and it will hurt, but it will save you so much wasted time and prolonged heartbreak. Trust me.
Hugs.
posted by Dimes at 11:39 AM on February 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
This is tangential to the main issue, but it might help you come to terms with things if you think about how it can hurt those potential other people this guy wants to engage with. Nobody experienced with open relationships is going to think dating him is a good idea once he gets to the no-rules part, and anyone else is going to be very perplexed and potentially hurt. Sure, there are plenty of people who make bad choices, but then you end up with a life full of drama and suffering. This is especially bad for you with your anxiety and other challenges, but also bad for anyone who gets drawn into this whole problem with the two of you. Right now there doesn't appear to be a "bad guy" but that can change quickly.
I think you should focus on building healthy friendships where you are now. Having that support will make your inevitable relationship pains a lot more surmountable. I also think that if you want to be able to eventually have this guy in your life (as a lifelong friend) then you need to have models of good friendships to emulate. Part of what's making this so hard for the both of you is the (false) idea that once a romantic relationship is over, two people can't continue to know each other. Yes, you will need a lot of time apart, but you've got that built-In. Opening up the relationship, though, sounds like a guaranteed way to make things so ugly between the two of you that no friendship can be salvaged.
posted by Mizu at 11:47 AM on February 12, 2016
I think you should focus on building healthy friendships where you are now. Having that support will make your inevitable relationship pains a lot more surmountable. I also think that if you want to be able to eventually have this guy in your life (as a lifelong friend) then you need to have models of good friendships to emulate. Part of what's making this so hard for the both of you is the (false) idea that once a romantic relationship is over, two people can't continue to know each other. Yes, you will need a lot of time apart, but you've got that built-In. Opening up the relationship, though, sounds like a guaranteed way to make things so ugly between the two of you that no friendship can be salvaged.
posted by Mizu at 11:47 AM on February 12, 2016
Break up. It'll be terrifying. Do it anyway. You're clinging to something broken because it feels safe and comfortable. It is neither safe nor comfortable.
You're going to need to learn dating in your late twenties and it will feel awkward and stupid and you won't know the rules. It'll feel weird for awhile. After that it will be fine and probably even fun.
You'll be more lonely for awhile. And heartbroken too while you grieve for the loss of this relationship. After that you'll stop investing so much in a dead end relationship, you'll start gathering more local contacts.
I won't kid you for one second. You're in for a tough stretch post-break up, but it will pass and it will get so much better.
posted by 26.2 at 11:49 AM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
You're going to need to learn dating in your late twenties and it will feel awkward and stupid and you won't know the rules. It'll feel weird for awhile. After that it will be fine and probably even fun.
You'll be more lonely for awhile. And heartbroken too while you grieve for the loss of this relationship. After that you'll stop investing so much in a dead end relationship, you'll start gathering more local contacts.
I won't kid you for one second. You're in for a tough stretch post-break up, but it will pass and it will get so much better.
posted by 26.2 at 11:49 AM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I just read this essay yesterday, so it immediately came to mind. A little perspective on open/polyamorous relationships. He writes a lot about the subject, so it might be worth it so check out more of his essays if you are interested in understanding these kinds of relationships a bit more.
My short answer for you is no, it won't work. Both people have to be into it for open relationships to work, and I do believe they can work. But in your situation, I know I would feel just like you, and be obsessively anxious about whoever else he was with. I think if you want this relationship to continue your only real option is to figure out how to stop being long distance.
Also, I don't think he is horrible just for bringing this up, but it is horrible for him to push you if you know it's something you just aren't comfortable with. (See the relationship hostage/ blackmail point in the essay above.)
posted by catatethebird at 11:51 AM on February 12, 2016
My short answer for you is no, it won't work. Both people have to be into it for open relationships to work, and I do believe they can work. But in your situation, I know I would feel just like you, and be obsessively anxious about whoever else he was with. I think if you want this relationship to continue your only real option is to figure out how to stop being long distance.
Also, I don't think he is horrible just for bringing this up, but it is horrible for him to push you if you know it's something you just aren't comfortable with. (See the relationship hostage/ blackmail point in the essay above.)
posted by catatethebird at 11:51 AM on February 12, 2016
He argues my use of an ultimatum is unfair.... [A]m I a horrible person[?]
Contrary to some of the other commenters, you are giving him an ultimatum if you say you refuse to stay in the relationship if he has sex with other people. If that's not an ultimatum, what is?
It just so happens to be an appropriate ultimatum.
I don't know why people say it's somehow wrong to give an "ultimatum" in a relationship. Why not?
There's nothing inherently wrong with ultimatums. Ultimatums are just potentially wrong — if they're used excessively. It would be wrong to threaten to break up if you ever don't get your way; if only one person in a relationship is willing to do that, then that person can always get their way through unreasonable threats. That would be bad, but that's not what you're doing. You're just sticking to the existing, normal rules of your relationship.
Saying you should never give him an ultimatum is saying you should have no standards — that he should be free to do whatever he wants, and you have to put up with it. I'd tell him: Nice try, but no.
posted by John Cohen at 11:55 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Contrary to some of the other commenters, you are giving him an ultimatum if you say you refuse to stay in the relationship if he has sex with other people. If that's not an ultimatum, what is?
It just so happens to be an appropriate ultimatum.
I don't know why people say it's somehow wrong to give an "ultimatum" in a relationship. Why not?
There's nothing inherently wrong with ultimatums. Ultimatums are just potentially wrong — if they're used excessively. It would be wrong to threaten to break up if you ever don't get your way; if only one person in a relationship is willing to do that, then that person can always get their way through unreasonable threats. That would be bad, but that's not what you're doing. You're just sticking to the existing, normal rules of your relationship.
Saying you should never give him an ultimatum is saying you should have no standards — that he should be free to do whatever he wants, and you have to put up with it. I'd tell him: Nice try, but no.
posted by John Cohen at 11:55 AM on February 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's what I think, straight up. Break up with this person. Your life will feel a lot worse for a little while, then it will get so much better, quicker than you think.
He seems to have a visceral reaction to the idea of us breaking up.
Yeah, this is not very mature. In fact, this is where he moves from simply expressing his desire to change the relationship (which gives you the option of accepting the change, rejecting the change, negotiating a compromise, or moving on) to being, in technical terms, a big fat baby.
His "visceral reaction" is throwing you for a loop and it is making it difficult for you to see your way to the choice that will most likely work best for you. He's allowed to want what he wants, sure, but he HAS to give you a full choice, and throwing a tantrum at the idea of ending something that is untenable for you is unfair. It removes your best option! And it's manipulative, I suspect.
I feel like he must have done a number on you if you think being uncomfortable with your boyfriend fucking other people is somehow a personal failing of yours or psychological disorder.
Tell him nice try, thanks for your honesty, but you can't always get what you want. Tell him he can't have his cake and eat it too. Tell him you aren't cake, he can't cut you into pieces and take the ones he likes and throw the rest away.
posted by kapers at 12:33 PM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
He seems to have a visceral reaction to the idea of us breaking up.
Yeah, this is not very mature. In fact, this is where he moves from simply expressing his desire to change the relationship (which gives you the option of accepting the change, rejecting the change, negotiating a compromise, or moving on) to being, in technical terms, a big fat baby.
His "visceral reaction" is throwing you for a loop and it is making it difficult for you to see your way to the choice that will most likely work best for you. He's allowed to want what he wants, sure, but he HAS to give you a full choice, and throwing a tantrum at the idea of ending something that is untenable for you is unfair. It removes your best option! And it's manipulative, I suspect.
I feel like he must have done a number on you if you think being uncomfortable with your boyfriend fucking other people is somehow a personal failing of yours or psychological disorder.
Tell him nice try, thanks for your honesty, but you can't always get what you want. Tell him he can't have his cake and eat it too. Tell him you aren't cake, he can't cut you into pieces and take the ones he likes and throw the rest away.
posted by kapers at 12:33 PM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Anyone who treats boundaries as ultimatums is super-duper not worth your time. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
posted by superlibby at 1:08 PM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by superlibby at 1:08 PM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
Tell him you think an open relationship is a great idea and oh hey, you just met someone you wanted to fuck and you fell in love with them and you're leaving him, cya! Because that's what he wants to do to you. It's basically a license for this guy to get laid and shop around for your replacement while having you as his backup justincase. I would dump him so hard he bounces.
posted by Jubey at 1:44 PM on February 12, 2016
posted by Jubey at 1:44 PM on February 12, 2016
Another point . . .
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy; I think that is the only way I'd be comfortable. he wants us to trust each other and be honest with each other.
Ok, but . . . what does trusting each other and being honest MEAN? Like, I don't even understand how you can NOT talk this out and have rules for this because trusting each other and being honest could mean literally a million things. For example, does it mean that you guys can date and sleep with other people, but you have to tell each other about it? When? Before or after the date? Only if there is sex? How much detail - the fact that it happened or a play-by-play? This may sound nuts to you but every couple prefers it differently: some couples don't want to know anything at all, because the details of what their partner gets up to with other people would cause hurt feelings, or would feel like an invasion of privacy; some couples want every single detail (with the other partners' permission, of course) because they think it's hot and that is the whole point of the nonmonogamy exercise.
So, which is your partner? Will he tell you every detail? Will he keep it to himself unless you ask? And if so, will you know how and when to ask to get an answer that is ok with your preferences? Or will he not tell you anything at all, ever, don't ask don't tell?
This is only one small example of the kinds of things you need to talk and set "rules" over. Otherwise, if you just say yes to nonmonogamy, you could be surprised later on when your boyfriend calls to give you details you didn't want, or is waiting and waiting for you to ask him how his date went, or any number of things.
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:52 PM on February 12, 2016
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy; I think that is the only way I'd be comfortable. he wants us to trust each other and be honest with each other.
Ok, but . . . what does trusting each other and being honest MEAN? Like, I don't even understand how you can NOT talk this out and have rules for this because trusting each other and being honest could mean literally a million things. For example, does it mean that you guys can date and sleep with other people, but you have to tell each other about it? When? Before or after the date? Only if there is sex? How much detail - the fact that it happened or a play-by-play? This may sound nuts to you but every couple prefers it differently: some couples don't want to know anything at all, because the details of what their partner gets up to with other people would cause hurt feelings, or would feel like an invasion of privacy; some couples want every single detail (with the other partners' permission, of course) because they think it's hot and that is the whole point of the nonmonogamy exercise.
So, which is your partner? Will he tell you every detail? Will he keep it to himself unless you ask? And if so, will you know how and when to ask to get an answer that is ok with your preferences? Or will he not tell you anything at all, ever, don't ask don't tell?
This is only one small example of the kinds of things you need to talk and set "rules" over. Otherwise, if you just say yes to nonmonogamy, you could be surprised later on when your boyfriend calls to give you details you didn't want, or is waiting and waiting for you to ask him how his date went, or any number of things.
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:52 PM on February 12, 2016
He's gaslighting you into thinking that your feelings aren't valid. Your feelings are valid. If you don't want an open relationship, you don't want it. End of story.
Break up with him before he cheats on you. He doesn't respect your feelings and he will cheat on you.
posted by a strong female character at 2:29 PM on February 12, 2016
Break up with him before he cheats on you. He doesn't respect your feelings and he will cheat on you.
posted by a strong female character at 2:29 PM on February 12, 2016
Also, what you describe (feeling like you're going crazy, like you're a horrible person) are classic symptoms of being a victim of gaslighting and is exactly what I experienced when I was going through it myself.
Please take care of yourself. Your needs are valid and you're not horrible for having needs.
posted by a strong female character at 2:39 PM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Please take care of yourself. Your needs are valid and you're not horrible for having needs.
posted by a strong female character at 2:39 PM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
I agree you should break up with this guy.
He literally wants to do whatever he wants, live a single life, but still hold onto you and get whatever the hell he wants from you too. This is not an "open relationship." What's worse is that he's guilting you into it because he's made it clear he won't be happy without moving forward with what he wants to do.
I agree that you're both trying to contort and shapeshift just to avoid breaking up. I assume he's fearful about being without you, but he really doesn't want to be with you anymore. It's not because he likes you. It's because he likes support or whatever he gets out of the relationship. It's scary to break up with someone when you've been with them for so long - but honestly your situation is better than most. You don't live together and you live in different cities and don't see each other often. You're emotionally dependant on each other but you're not financially/housing/job/transportation dependant.
Break the emotional dependance.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:52 PM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
He literally wants to do whatever he wants, live a single life, but still hold onto you and get whatever the hell he wants from you too. This is not an "open relationship." What's worse is that he's guilting you into it because he's made it clear he won't be happy without moving forward with what he wants to do.
I agree that you're both trying to contort and shapeshift just to avoid breaking up. I assume he's fearful about being without you, but he really doesn't want to be with you anymore. It's not because he likes you. It's because he likes support or whatever he gets out of the relationship. It's scary to break up with someone when you've been with them for so long - but honestly your situation is better than most. You don't live together and you live in different cities and don't see each other often. You're emotionally dependant on each other but you're not financially/housing/job/transportation dependant.
Break the emotional dependance.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:52 PM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
OP, I want to clarify that I am not saying this is easy--it's the hardest thing in the world-- but he's making it seem impossibly complicated and making you feel crazy, when it's really simple, and you are not nuts.
So, I wanted to "show my work" as to how I arrived at my conclusion that you should break up with him, and show you how the answer seems simple to me because I am removed from the emotion of the situation and I'm not being influence/manipulated by him.
You have to decide if you want to change the relationship per his request. You can:
- Accept what he wants to do. Don't do this one, because you DON'T WANT TO. Your reasons are completely sane-- I would not want this, and I think if you were poly you would know-- but even if your reasons were silly, what you want counts the most, and you don't want to do this.
-Reject what he wants to do and stay in the relationship monogamously. Don't do this one, because he will be unhappy, you will feel guilty, he will resent the hell out of you, you will always wonder what he is up to or what he wishes he were up to, and it will fall apart anyway sooner or later, like a slow-motion trainwreck that takes years to recover from.
-Negotiate a compromise. Don't do this one, because like being pregnant, you can't be a "little bit" poly. There is no good compromise here and frankly, he seems like a TERRIBLE compromiser. He's already given bullshit reasons why accommodating you won't be possible for him-- he's just too cool for your rules, man; he has "visceral reactions" to breaking up--and there is no real halfway point here that will make you happy.
-Move on. Do this one. It is your best shot at happiness. It happens to be the hardest one right now because you can't bury your head in the sand and pretend and play along, and of course you will be hurt and you will miss him, but the light at the end of this is so much brighter than anything he can offer you right now. Deferring the pain only prolongs it. Rip that Band-Aid off.
You know, partners who make you feel cuckoo-dumb and who make situations seem sooo complicated that you agonize for days and can't see any good solutions are, again to use the technical term, fucking with you. Maybe not in a malicious way, maybe more in a weasel way, but he's fucking with you nonetheless. Stay strong OP, I'm rooting for you.
posted by kapers at 3:12 PM on February 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, I wanted to "show my work" as to how I arrived at my conclusion that you should break up with him, and show you how the answer seems simple to me because I am removed from the emotion of the situation and I'm not being influence/manipulated by him.
You have to decide if you want to change the relationship per his request. You can:
- Accept what he wants to do. Don't do this one, because you DON'T WANT TO. Your reasons are completely sane-- I would not want this, and I think if you were poly you would know-- but even if your reasons were silly, what you want counts the most, and you don't want to do this.
-Reject what he wants to do and stay in the relationship monogamously. Don't do this one, because he will be unhappy, you will feel guilty, he will resent the hell out of you, you will always wonder what he is up to or what he wishes he were up to, and it will fall apart anyway sooner or later, like a slow-motion trainwreck that takes years to recover from.
-Negotiate a compromise. Don't do this one, because like being pregnant, you can't be a "little bit" poly. There is no good compromise here and frankly, he seems like a TERRIBLE compromiser. He's already given bullshit reasons why accommodating you won't be possible for him-- he's just too cool for your rules, man; he has "visceral reactions" to breaking up--and there is no real halfway point here that will make you happy.
-Move on. Do this one. It is your best shot at happiness. It happens to be the hardest one right now because you can't bury your head in the sand and pretend and play along, and of course you will be hurt and you will miss him, but the light at the end of this is so much brighter than anything he can offer you right now. Deferring the pain only prolongs it. Rip that Band-Aid off.
You know, partners who make you feel cuckoo-dumb and who make situations seem sooo complicated that you agonize for days and can't see any good solutions are, again to use the technical term, fucking with you. Maybe not in a malicious way, maybe more in a weasel way, but he's fucking with you nonetheless. Stay strong OP, I'm rooting for you.
posted by kapers at 3:12 PM on February 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Even in the most charitable reading of his actions here, he is putting his desire to be with other women over your concerns, anxiety, and mental health. Dump him and - this is crucial - go no contact. This sounds like the kind of guy who will keep badgering you until you agree to something you don't want, and probably pitch a fit about the no contact thing. Going no contact is good for your state of mind, and if he doesn't understand that, it's just another indication that he is not a good partner.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 3:30 PM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 3:30 PM on February 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
The reason you should break up with him now is so that you don't have to get the phone call of "Yeah, that skinny girl from Facebook that I friended eight weeks ago? We are in love. So, bye."
That is exactly how he has decided he wants to exit this relationship.
Don't let him do it. Break up now, while he is still there. Put him back on the train early and go no contact for a year.
It's going to hurt like hell, but nothing as painful as what's headed at you if you don't do it.
Courage. You're fixing problems and changing your life for the better.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 4:13 PM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
That is exactly how he has decided he wants to exit this relationship.
Don't let him do it. Break up now, while he is still there. Put him back on the train early and go no contact for a year.
It's going to hurt like hell, but nothing as painful as what's headed at you if you don't do it.
Courage. You're fixing problems and changing your life for the better.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 4:13 PM on February 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
This sounds like someone who wants to break up but doesn't want to go through or put you through that pain.
posted by Juliet Banana at 9:17 PM on February 12, 2016
posted by Juliet Banana at 9:17 PM on February 12, 2016
Let's say you open your relationship. No rules, just trust each other.
He'll tell you anything and everything.
Every. Thing.
Because you have no rules! You don't have a rule like, "Hey, don't tell me every detail about the sex you had last night. Just don't." Do you really want to hear a play-by-play? If you're the sort of couple that shares nearly everything with one another, this will be on the table for sharing. Oh boy, how fun, you'll get to hear how another woman sucks his dick differently than you do in this way and this way and this way.....
Watched it happen to one of my best friends. It was awful. Don't go there.
posted by RogueTech at 11:21 PM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
He'll tell you anything and everything.
Every. Thing.
Because you have no rules! You don't have a rule like, "Hey, don't tell me every detail about the sex you had last night. Just don't." Do you really want to hear a play-by-play? If you're the sort of couple that shares nearly everything with one another, this will be on the table for sharing. Oh boy, how fun, you'll get to hear how another woman sucks his dick differently than you do in this way and this way and this way.....
Watched it happen to one of my best friends. It was awful. Don't go there.
posted by RogueTech at 11:21 PM on February 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
he does not want there to be like a strict set of rules for nonmonogamy
Nope, DTMFA, that's not how healthy nonmonogamy works.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 1:10 AM on February 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Nope, DTMFA, that's not how healthy nonmonogamy works.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 1:10 AM on February 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I agree with basically everyone that it does not sound like this situation would work for you. That doesn't make you a horrible person. No one has to be a horrible person here. The two of you have reached a point where your needs are incompatible. That's ok.
What I do want to comment on is the pile-on of people saying that all healthy nonmonogamy has to have strict rules. I agree with internet fraud detective here. I am in a healthy nonmonogamous relationship, have been for years. We don't have strict rules; we have what I would say are guidelines. Issues relating to sexual health, as IFD mentioned, have a slightly stricter set of rules; things like "I am comfortable with you not using protection for these sorts of acts; you must always use protection for these sorts of acts; you must always talk about STI status and acceptable risk with your other partners". But when it comes to dating/relationships/what-have-you... we don't really have rules. We talk, we check in a lot, we make sure the other is comfortable. Sometimes the other person is not comfortable and we talk about that, and make compromises or discuss to the point that we are both ok. I think for me, this works better than having a strict set of rules, because I feel that there is no way a strict rule set can cover every situation. Having the understanding that my partner cares about me and will communicate and is open to hearing when I'm not ok with a situation feels better than wondering what will happen if my partner encounters a situation where there isn't already a strict rule in place. I also feel better knowing that my partner trusts me to use my judgement and to talk about how we are doing regularly enough that potential issues come up organically.
So if that is what your boyfriend is talking about, I can absolutely see it working... but not with you. You don't want an open relationship, and that's ok. It sounds like the best thing to do is to break up, or to figure out an end date to your LDR and to work actively towards that to get you both in the same place again.
posted by Illuminated Clocks at 3:17 PM on February 14, 2016
What I do want to comment on is the pile-on of people saying that all healthy nonmonogamy has to have strict rules. I agree with internet fraud detective here. I am in a healthy nonmonogamous relationship, have been for years. We don't have strict rules; we have what I would say are guidelines. Issues relating to sexual health, as IFD mentioned, have a slightly stricter set of rules; things like "I am comfortable with you not using protection for these sorts of acts; you must always use protection for these sorts of acts; you must always talk about STI status and acceptable risk with your other partners". But when it comes to dating/relationships/what-have-you... we don't really have rules. We talk, we check in a lot, we make sure the other is comfortable. Sometimes the other person is not comfortable and we talk about that, and make compromises or discuss to the point that we are both ok. I think for me, this works better than having a strict set of rules, because I feel that there is no way a strict rule set can cover every situation. Having the understanding that my partner cares about me and will communicate and is open to hearing when I'm not ok with a situation feels better than wondering what will happen if my partner encounters a situation where there isn't already a strict rule in place. I also feel better knowing that my partner trusts me to use my judgement and to talk about how we are doing regularly enough that potential issues come up organically.
So if that is what your boyfriend is talking about, I can absolutely see it working... but not with you. You don't want an open relationship, and that's ok. It sounds like the best thing to do is to break up, or to figure out an end date to your LDR and to work actively towards that to get you both in the same place again.
posted by Illuminated Clocks at 3:17 PM on February 14, 2016
I agree with Illuminated Clocks on the rules business, but as I said upthread DTMFA for the other issues.
posted by hollyholly at 7:10 AM on February 15, 2016
posted by hollyholly at 7:10 AM on February 15, 2016
This sounds a bit to me like "LDR is hard and I am not feeling all the support I would want from my relationship and I don't want to break up so the only solution is an open relationship right?". An open relationship won't fix the emotional impact of being far from each other. Your relationship needs some other fix/glue to keep it going (an end date to the LDR, weekly date nights via skype, etc). The shitty thing about LDRs is that all of the "spending time together" stuff suddenly takes a lot more pre-planning and initiative, it doesn't just happen by default, and that can lead to a reduction of intimacy. You can't just substitute in intimacy with other people and hope it feels better, that's not how it works. (I mention this because it sounds like it might be where your partner is coming from with this request, especially since he seems to have no idea what an open relationship would require in terms of extra emotional work, scheduling hell, and managing multiple sets of boundaries.)
You are not a horrible person for not wanting an open relationship. If he is making you feel like a horrible person because of that, you have bigger issues than just open vs closed. Not all ultimatums are bad but this doesn't really count as one (in my opinion). He's suggested "hey let's be open" and you've responded "that really doesn't work for me and if that's what you really want then it'd have to be while dating someone other than me" - that's you firmly expressing a boundary (which btw you should be commended for!! boundaries are hard!!).
Basically: if you two want to hold onto this relationship, there are other ways to (try to) fix the LDR blah feelings. You do not want an open relationship, he needs to accept that and take it off the table.
posted by buteo at 12:23 PM on February 15, 2016
You are not a horrible person for not wanting an open relationship. If he is making you feel like a horrible person because of that, you have bigger issues than just open vs closed. Not all ultimatums are bad but this doesn't really count as one (in my opinion). He's suggested "hey let's be open" and you've responded "that really doesn't work for me and if that's what you really want then it'd have to be while dating someone other than me" - that's you firmly expressing a boundary (which btw you should be commended for!! boundaries are hard!!).
Basically: if you two want to hold onto this relationship, there are other ways to (try to) fix the LDR blah feelings. You do not want an open relationship, he needs to accept that and take it off the table.
posted by buteo at 12:23 PM on February 15, 2016
Open relationships are FILLED with rules, that's how they work
Some of them are, some less so. But that's beside the point. The point is:
I don't want to be in an open relationship
According to my official internet advice calculator: one yes + one no = no.
posted by ead at 4:21 PM on February 15, 2016
Some of them are, some less so. But that's beside the point. The point is:
I don't want to be in an open relationship
According to my official internet advice calculator: one yes + one no = no.
posted by ead at 4:21 PM on February 15, 2016
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posted by showbiz_liz at 8:08 AM on February 12, 2016 [59 favorites]