Dealing with feeling inadequate (and angry) about your appearance
February 7, 2016 6:48 AM
I spend a lot of time thinking about and feeling inadequate, especially about my appearance. What helps to make this better? And what might help me to feel less angry about it all?
I’m in my late 20s and I feel really undesirable a lot of the time. I am a little bit overweight, blotchy skin, frizzy hair… etc etc. When I go out with friends to bars or club nobody ever EVER hits on me or tries to pick me up (except occasionally for older men in their 50s or 60s). I remember reading somewhere that women who are unattractive (and, I think, women who are older), just end up becoming invisible. People don’t really see you. That’s how I feel a lot of the time.
The majority of my relationship experience has been with people who have seen me as a bit of a stop-gap and as good enough for now. It’s been almost two years since my last relationship ended and for a large chunk of that time, I’ve been looking for another relationship. Several people I know, mostly acquaintances, have also been single for months within this timeframe but it seems like all of them, within two months of deciding they want to date, are in healthy long-term potential relationships. They are attractive, skinny, long straight haired, clear skinned women. I am very much not.
I want to stop comparing myself to other women. I want to stop being so angry with this society that puts women’s appearance at such a premium. I’ve read this previous post and found it helpful.
At the moment, I’ve started running and meditating, which are good. But what next? What help’s with this simmering resentment underlaid with all this inadequacy?
I’m in my late 20s and I feel really undesirable a lot of the time. I am a little bit overweight, blotchy skin, frizzy hair… etc etc. When I go out with friends to bars or club nobody ever EVER hits on me or tries to pick me up (except occasionally for older men in their 50s or 60s). I remember reading somewhere that women who are unattractive (and, I think, women who are older), just end up becoming invisible. People don’t really see you. That’s how I feel a lot of the time.
The majority of my relationship experience has been with people who have seen me as a bit of a stop-gap and as good enough for now. It’s been almost two years since my last relationship ended and for a large chunk of that time, I’ve been looking for another relationship. Several people I know, mostly acquaintances, have also been single for months within this timeframe but it seems like all of them, within two months of deciding they want to date, are in healthy long-term potential relationships. They are attractive, skinny, long straight haired, clear skinned women. I am very much not.
I want to stop comparing myself to other women. I want to stop being so angry with this society that puts women’s appearance at such a premium. I’ve read this previous post and found it helpful.
At the moment, I’ve started running and meditating, which are good. But what next? What help’s with this simmering resentment underlaid with all this inadequacy?
Stop going to pick-up dives. I don't think your looks determine relationship and general happiness, at all...but in that environment, they're all that counts. Bars/clubs are an artificial, unhealthy environment on so many levels.
posted by The Toad at 7:10 AM on February 7, 2016
posted by The Toad at 7:10 AM on February 7, 2016
I have only been in two relationships, one in high school, and made the first move. No one ever hits on me, I've been single for over a year, and I've decided I want a relationship and still nothing. I am also in my late 20s and except for being of average weight, I also feel the same as you sometimes. Everyone does to some degree. Channel that energy into loving yourself for who you are, unique.
Definitely follow the hair advice and cultivate some hobbies you enjoy and can be proud of. Find clothes that fit your shape well or tailor what you have. When you feel good, you look good, vice versa. It's about confidence. The only way to get confidence and self esteem is to own your appearance and know you're beautiful and no one can take that away. Know you're beautiful.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:18 AM on February 7, 2016
Definitely follow the hair advice and cultivate some hobbies you enjoy and can be proud of. Find clothes that fit your shape well or tailor what you have. When you feel good, you look good, vice versa. It's about confidence. The only way to get confidence and self esteem is to own your appearance and know you're beautiful and no one can take that away. Know you're beautiful.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:18 AM on February 7, 2016
You have two options here.
You can learn to love and accept your appearance as it is.
Or you can change your appearance.
It sounds like you don't participate much with the beauty industry. You could choose to pursue conventional beauty. There are lots of examples of women that don't have conventionally beautiful faces (Sarah Jessica Parker, Chloe Sevigny) that are considered beautiful because they are impeccably groomed and dressed. So even if your face is naturally lopsided or has other features society finds undesirable, society will continue to consider you beautiful if you want to buy in to the beauty game.
There are lots of women that alter their appearance quite radically with beauty products, clothes and even surgery. I was a late bloomer, and went from park league softball chic to elegant glamor in my late 30s. Society treats those two versions of me very differently.
But, the beauty industry will take all of your money and time, and it may even take more of your self esteem.
The real question here is can you find your self esteem as your natural self, or will you get self esteem from conforming to societal beauty standards?
Find things that feed your self esteem. Hint: those things are usually activities you are good at, and not usually beautiful hair.
Also, find better places to hang out. Your current haunts sound like a bad match.
posted by littlewater at 7:34 AM on February 7, 2016
You can learn to love and accept your appearance as it is.
Or you can change your appearance.
It sounds like you don't participate much with the beauty industry. You could choose to pursue conventional beauty. There are lots of examples of women that don't have conventionally beautiful faces (Sarah Jessica Parker, Chloe Sevigny) that are considered beautiful because they are impeccably groomed and dressed. So even if your face is naturally lopsided or has other features society finds undesirable, society will continue to consider you beautiful if you want to buy in to the beauty game.
There are lots of women that alter their appearance quite radically with beauty products, clothes and even surgery. I was a late bloomer, and went from park league softball chic to elegant glamor in my late 30s. Society treats those two versions of me very differently.
But, the beauty industry will take all of your money and time, and it may even take more of your self esteem.
The real question here is can you find your self esteem as your natural self, or will you get self esteem from conforming to societal beauty standards?
Find things that feed your self esteem. Hint: those things are usually activities you are good at, and not usually beautiful hair.
Also, find better places to hang out. Your current haunts sound like a bad match.
posted by littlewater at 7:34 AM on February 7, 2016
I have often felt like you do and I can sympathize.
It's harder to give good advice on dealing with this. Our society tells us that the stakes are so high with regards to appearance, and as much as I disagree with that it's very hard to completely ignore the message. For myself these things have helped:
* Learning what makes me feel more pretty and confident. This has involved lots of experimentation with haircuts, clothing and makeup.
* Deciding myself to place less emphasis on appearance. When I compliment other women I try not to just talk about appearance-oriented things, but to see and appreciate intelligence, strength of character, humor and kindness.
* Try different hobbies. Going to a class and learning something new, participating in a choir or volunteering is a lot more satisfying to me than sitting in a bar wondering why no one will talk to me.
* Get engaged with things you care about. The world needs saving. It needs me and my double chin and aversion to manicures. It needs you and your frizzy hair and your passion.
Running and meditating sound great. Be patient with yourself. If you are like me - and, I suspect, like many women - this is an issue that you will often feel frustrated with. And legitimately so: it's unjust that our world so often rewards appearance over merit. But I'm happier when I shift my focus and engage with things I care about - music, social justice, personal growth.
Good luck to you.
posted by bunderful at 7:47 AM on February 7, 2016
It's harder to give good advice on dealing with this. Our society tells us that the stakes are so high with regards to appearance, and as much as I disagree with that it's very hard to completely ignore the message. For myself these things have helped:
* Learning what makes me feel more pretty and confident. This has involved lots of experimentation with haircuts, clothing and makeup.
* Deciding myself to place less emphasis on appearance. When I compliment other women I try not to just talk about appearance-oriented things, but to see and appreciate intelligence, strength of character, humor and kindness.
* Try different hobbies. Going to a class and learning something new, participating in a choir or volunteering is a lot more satisfying to me than sitting in a bar wondering why no one will talk to me.
* Get engaged with things you care about. The world needs saving. It needs me and my double chin and aversion to manicures. It needs you and your frizzy hair and your passion.
Running and meditating sound great. Be patient with yourself. If you are like me - and, I suspect, like many women - this is an issue that you will often feel frustrated with. And legitimately so: it's unjust that our world so often rewards appearance over merit. But I'm happier when I shift my focus and engage with things I care about - music, social justice, personal growth.
Good luck to you.
posted by bunderful at 7:47 AM on February 7, 2016
Definitely stay away from the bar pickup scene. There's nothing that will make you make you feel more objectified. Getting angry about this is appropriate.
If you enjoy running, that is really good. Consider stepping it up. If you can respect what your body can do, it will change how you feel about your appearance and a habit like running is something that will sustain you as you get older.
Speaking of getting older, your late twenties is the apex of a certain kind of competitiveness about looks and judging of them. It gets better from here.
posted by BibiRose at 7:51 AM on February 7, 2016
If you enjoy running, that is really good. Consider stepping it up. If you can respect what your body can do, it will change how you feel about your appearance and a habit like running is something that will sustain you as you get older.
Speaking of getting older, your late twenties is the apex of a certain kind of competitiveness about looks and judging of them. It gets better from here.
posted by BibiRose at 7:51 AM on February 7, 2016
So running and meditating are definitely great. Also, as Stonkle says: find your tribe. Do you live in or near a large city? Are you into video games or board games? Science fiction and fantasy? Filk, or feminism, or maker spaces? Renaissance festivals? Rock climbing? Want to learn circus skills like aerial silks or trapeze? Interested in Unitarian Universalism or paganism? How about alternative sexuality? Want to go to Burning Man, or attend a regional burn? These are all activities around which I've found community that is, to a greater or lesser degree, welcoming and accepting of all different types of people, and where women are not automatically expected to hew to conventional beauty norms (or other norms). Many of these activities have lessons, meetings, or large weekend or week-long gatherings where you can meet people and get involved.
posted by woodvine at 7:55 AM on February 7, 2016
posted by woodvine at 7:55 AM on February 7, 2016
I'm fat. Let's get real, if I went out with my thin girlfriends there was a 0% chance anyone was going to hit on me. Even if a guy likes a big girl (and thank heavens there are plenty of those guys out there) chances are if he's out with his bros, he won't do it in front of them. (Been there, done that.)
So for item number 1, stop going places where getting picked up depend on looks.
Now, that doesn't give you permission to let it all go. Everyone should present themselves in their most attractive light. We are ALL judged on our appearance. Ask a short man about how he perceives the world.
So you have frizzy hair. Get a good cut (I recommend a place like Aveda Institute, $18 designer haircuts.) Find some products that work for you. You don't have to slave over your hair. I don't even recommend it. I'm suggesting you work with it so that it's not a liability.
As for blotchy skin, if it's just regular stuff, get a skin care regiment. I use Garnier from the drug store, but if you want to feel special, hit the Clinique counter and get a consultation. You can get the base skin care for about $100 (cleanser, toner, lotion). You're worth it.
I recommend doing some light makeup. You're not going to feel 100% comfortable with the amount of make up I use, but some BB or CC cream will smooth your skin. A bit of blush will give you some color. A light gloss on your lips will protect them.
Get your eyebrows arched. You will be AMAZED at how much that opens up your face. That's a cheap $10
Clothing. You don't have to spend a ton on clothing, but it should flatter you and you should make an effort. It's taken me a long time to figure out what works for me and makes me look and feel comfortable. Read some magazines and identify looks you like and that will look good on you. I got a ton of compliments on an outfit I aped from a Chico's ad. Most of the stuff I already had, I just needed a nudge to put it together well.
You can rail against a system that values appearance. At the end of the day, that's what we're working with. You're not giving in if you decide to accept that it's necessary to 'tart up' if you want to participate in the system.
If you want to meet people who are less focused on appearance for the initial connection, you're going to want to try on-line dating (although even then, appearance matters) or volunteering or group activities. Places where folks can get to know you, appreciate your wry humor, see how caring you are, etc.
I will say this though, anger is not attractive. So find a way to release it. Therapy, or getting involved in volunteerism, things that help you see that for most people, we're with out SOs because of who they are, not what they look like.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:59 AM on February 7, 2016
So for item number 1, stop going places where getting picked up depend on looks.
Now, that doesn't give you permission to let it all go. Everyone should present themselves in their most attractive light. We are ALL judged on our appearance. Ask a short man about how he perceives the world.
So you have frizzy hair. Get a good cut (I recommend a place like Aveda Institute, $18 designer haircuts.) Find some products that work for you. You don't have to slave over your hair. I don't even recommend it. I'm suggesting you work with it so that it's not a liability.
As for blotchy skin, if it's just regular stuff, get a skin care regiment. I use Garnier from the drug store, but if you want to feel special, hit the Clinique counter and get a consultation. You can get the base skin care for about $100 (cleanser, toner, lotion). You're worth it.
I recommend doing some light makeup. You're not going to feel 100% comfortable with the amount of make up I use, but some BB or CC cream will smooth your skin. A bit of blush will give you some color. A light gloss on your lips will protect them.
Get your eyebrows arched. You will be AMAZED at how much that opens up your face. That's a cheap $10
Clothing. You don't have to spend a ton on clothing, but it should flatter you and you should make an effort. It's taken me a long time to figure out what works for me and makes me look and feel comfortable. Read some magazines and identify looks you like and that will look good on you. I got a ton of compliments on an outfit I aped from a Chico's ad. Most of the stuff I already had, I just needed a nudge to put it together well.
You can rail against a system that values appearance. At the end of the day, that's what we're working with. You're not giving in if you decide to accept that it's necessary to 'tart up' if you want to participate in the system.
If you want to meet people who are less focused on appearance for the initial connection, you're going to want to try on-line dating (although even then, appearance matters) or volunteering or group activities. Places where folks can get to know you, appreciate your wry humor, see how caring you are, etc.
I will say this though, anger is not attractive. So find a way to release it. Therapy, or getting involved in volunteerism, things that help you see that for most people, we're with out SOs because of who they are, not what they look like.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:59 AM on February 7, 2016
Write down a list of all of your good qualities. Be expansive. What are you particularly good at? What can you do well? Based on your question: you're a good writer, you're intelligent - there, I started your list for you. Do you have any particular skills or hobbies that you enjoy? If not, make a new list of things you'd like to learn and/or do. Be creative and don't leave anything out, even if it seems impossible - unless it's appearance-focused.
The way I have worked around my lack of beauty is to find other ways to feel amazing, strong, confident, and good about myself. Beauty comes from within is not just a thing people say to make themselves or others feel better. It really is true. That's why people like Sarah Jessica Parker and Chloe Sevigeny are attractive. It's not that they're well dressed and impeccably "groomed" (which is a pretty gross concept, I've always thought). They have charisma and confidence. Those things can be developed by finding your strengths and building on them and feeling good about yourself as a result.
Oh, and get rid of all the mirrors except for maybe one small one in your washroom. Every time I've lived in a mirror-less apartment I've been so much happier.
posted by sockermom at 8:04 AM on February 7, 2016
The way I have worked around my lack of beauty is to find other ways to feel amazing, strong, confident, and good about myself. Beauty comes from within is not just a thing people say to make themselves or others feel better. It really is true. That's why people like Sarah Jessica Parker and Chloe Sevigeny are attractive. It's not that they're well dressed and impeccably "groomed" (which is a pretty gross concept, I've always thought). They have charisma and confidence. Those things can be developed by finding your strengths and building on them and feeling good about yourself as a result.
Oh, and get rid of all the mirrors except for maybe one small one in your washroom. Every time I've lived in a mirror-less apartment I've been so much happier.
posted by sockermom at 8:04 AM on February 7, 2016
Do something every day that makes you appreciate being in a body. Maybe that's exercise - running or stretching or ice skating or, I don't know, doing cartwheels - but it doesn't have to be. Walking barefoot on grass works for me. Eating something new and exciting. Being in the sun. Lying around covered in piles of blankets and then stretching your body out really long. Singing, dancing.
Like a lot of women I spend a nontrivial amount of time hating my body; this stuff helps me. It reminds me that I am really happy to be a corporeal being on such a nice planet, and this happens to be my corporeal form; no point hating it when there are so many things to feel.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 8:05 AM on February 7, 2016
Like a lot of women I spend a nontrivial amount of time hating my body; this stuff helps me. It reminds me that I am really happy to be a corporeal being on such a nice planet, and this happens to be my corporeal form; no point hating it when there are so many things to feel.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 8:05 AM on February 7, 2016
My quick 2 cents is to not worry about any of it (yes, easier said...). It's all bullshit. You're chasing the wrong ideal.
posted by little_dog_laughing at 8:08 AM on February 7, 2016
posted by little_dog_laughing at 8:08 AM on February 7, 2016
While it's true that there's pressure on women to look a certain way, it's also important to look in the mirror and be happy with what you see. For yourself. If there's something you don't like, then change it. Losing weight might be the hardest, but the rest is fairly easy, as long as you have some money to spend. Nicer skin? Start a skin care regimen, use a good foundation and concealer. Straight hair? Get a straightening iron or go for permanent straightening. These are not so hard to fix. Anger, depression, these will make you uglier, inside and out. I know it's really difficult, and we're all sort of trying, but start by being happy about yourself, for yourself. While I'm not Buddhist, I found this article to be helpful, especially the part about how expectations undermine our happiness.
posted by 0cm at 8:10 AM on February 7, 2016
posted by 0cm at 8:10 AM on February 7, 2016
Oh also I had a period of time when I tried to get really into my looks so that I would be "well-groomed." I bought lots of makeup and got an expensive haircut and blah blah blah. It did not work. The problem was not my appearance. I was already appearance-focused enough and trying to conform to those standards of beauty - trying to groom myself - only made me more miserable.
Once I embraced the fact that yeah, I have bad skin and frizzy hair and I'm doing my best - I'm clean and I wear clothes that fit - but I am just not going to put in inordinate amounts of time on that and instead I'm going to focus on stuff that actually has the potential to make me feel good and not like a failure? That's when life got better for me. You don't have to put in extra money and time into this stuff. Put it into something that will last and will actually make you feel good. Learn a new language or start running or write a short story. Life is so short. Beauty fades. Makeup is stupid. I've got better things to do with my time than to groom myself for the visual pleasure of others.
posted by sockermom at 8:25 AM on February 7, 2016
Once I embraced the fact that yeah, I have bad skin and frizzy hair and I'm doing my best - I'm clean and I wear clothes that fit - but I am just not going to put in inordinate amounts of time on that and instead I'm going to focus on stuff that actually has the potential to make me feel good and not like a failure? That's when life got better for me. You don't have to put in extra money and time into this stuff. Put it into something that will last and will actually make you feel good. Learn a new language or start running or write a short story. Life is so short. Beauty fades. Makeup is stupid. I've got better things to do with my time than to groom myself for the visual pleasure of others.
posted by sockermom at 8:25 AM on February 7, 2016
I just came in here to contradict those who are saying you shouldn't be angry because it's unattractive. Society frowns on women who express anything other than bland, meek pleasantness. This shit you're dealing with is absolutely enraging, and you have a right to be livid about it. It's ok to feel your feelings. Your feelings are not wrong.
I personally don't believe in shielding other people from my anger. Context is important, so I don't let myself fly off the handle at work for example, but I completely disagree that you have to censor your feelings so that others won't pick up on your anger. Frankly, I wish more women would be openly angry about this shit because how else is society as a whole ever going to realize it's bullshit and start to change?
posted by a strong female character at 8:28 AM on February 7, 2016
I personally don't believe in shielding other people from my anger. Context is important, so I don't let myself fly off the handle at work for example, but I completely disagree that you have to censor your feelings so that others won't pick up on your anger. Frankly, I wish more women would be openly angry about this shit because how else is society as a whole ever going to realize it's bullshit and start to change?
posted by a strong female character at 8:28 AM on February 7, 2016
Hmm. I don't necessarily disagree with the answers that give tips on appearance, in that I think there are relatively low-effort ways to improve one's appearance and that this can often lead to greater confidence. But I don't think that's what you're asking here.
This is made more complicated by the fact that you're looking for a relationship, and is of course easier said than done, but I agree with those who say that worrying about it isn't worth it. I think I had an amazing blessing in having a mom who just never talked about or emphasized her (or my) appearance at all, and I'm not sure how one replicates that, but any way you can lessen the amount of time you spend thinking about your appearance is a win for you, I think.
Here's a small example of how that might work: I work with a lot of attractive, stylish women in their twenties and thirties, and I recently went through a period where I loathed how my hair looked every day. (I have never had any semblance of control over my hair, and I was going through those last painful stages of growing it out from a pixie cut. Agh.) I just wanted to put a bag over my head, and I would fuss with it every time I went to the restroom (where they had just installed an extra mirror, incidentally, so I also agree with the advice to not have a ton of mirrors). Eventually to save time on fussing I started telling myself, "Self, the reason people respect you here is not for your hair." Because it's not! I was at work, I wasn't there to look pretty. All those people with beautiful hair come to me for advice on projects. (This is a little different in the context of dating, but a. any context where you can say this to yourself is a step toward de-emphasizing appearance, and b. ultimately, when it comes to dating, you're not THERE to look pretty, either, are you? It makes things easier, as you've seen, but there's so much more to a good relationship.)
I think I'm pretty naturally cute, but my resistance to beauty norms when they're not fun for me can make me come off as mousy next to certain perfectly coiffed women I encounter, and then I feel like a dork sometimes. I could spend a LOT more time and money and energy wrestling my hair into submission, and probably a lot more money and energy on doing... something... with my eyebrows, and better makeup, and then I'd meet those women and... what? I'd feel good for a while, I guess, but I want more out of life than to not feel awkward when hanging out with foxy women.
I love sockermom's advice to list your good qualities (and on preview, she is also knocking it out of the park with her last comment). To that I'd add: what do you want to be like? What qualities do you deeply value in life? Bullshit patriarchy notwithstanding, I'd venture that perfect grooming is not high on the list. It's not for me either, but sometimes the world we live in can trick us into behaving as if it is, just from sheer pressure. Any chance you get, try to thumb your nose at that. Screw the system! We know better.
posted by sunset in snow country at 8:36 AM on February 7, 2016
This is made more complicated by the fact that you're looking for a relationship, and is of course easier said than done, but I agree with those who say that worrying about it isn't worth it. I think I had an amazing blessing in having a mom who just never talked about or emphasized her (or my) appearance at all, and I'm not sure how one replicates that, but any way you can lessen the amount of time you spend thinking about your appearance is a win for you, I think.
Here's a small example of how that might work: I work with a lot of attractive, stylish women in their twenties and thirties, and I recently went through a period where I loathed how my hair looked every day. (I have never had any semblance of control over my hair, and I was going through those last painful stages of growing it out from a pixie cut. Agh.) I just wanted to put a bag over my head, and I would fuss with it every time I went to the restroom (where they had just installed an extra mirror, incidentally, so I also agree with the advice to not have a ton of mirrors). Eventually to save time on fussing I started telling myself, "Self, the reason people respect you here is not for your hair." Because it's not! I was at work, I wasn't there to look pretty. All those people with beautiful hair come to me for advice on projects. (This is a little different in the context of dating, but a. any context where you can say this to yourself is a step toward de-emphasizing appearance, and b. ultimately, when it comes to dating, you're not THERE to look pretty, either, are you? It makes things easier, as you've seen, but there's so much more to a good relationship.)
I think I'm pretty naturally cute, but my resistance to beauty norms when they're not fun for me can make me come off as mousy next to certain perfectly coiffed women I encounter, and then I feel like a dork sometimes. I could spend a LOT more time and money and energy wrestling my hair into submission, and probably a lot more money and energy on doing... something... with my eyebrows, and better makeup, and then I'd meet those women and... what? I'd feel good for a while, I guess, but I want more out of life than to not feel awkward when hanging out with foxy women.
I love sockermom's advice to list your good qualities (and on preview, she is also knocking it out of the park with her last comment). To that I'd add: what do you want to be like? What qualities do you deeply value in life? Bullshit patriarchy notwithstanding, I'd venture that perfect grooming is not high on the list. It's not for me either, but sometimes the world we live in can trick us into behaving as if it is, just from sheer pressure. Any chance you get, try to thumb your nose at that. Screw the system! We know better.
posted by sunset in snow country at 8:36 AM on February 7, 2016
Anger and resentment are normal responses to this, and totally justified. However, it's not good for your health to be chronically angry or resentful. I.e. your HPA axis, cortisol, etc. will wreak havoc on your body if you can't or don't find a way to *control* some aspect of either the stressor/frustrating thing (society in this case...) or your response to it.
How others regard you, and how you regard yourself - self presentation and management - are central concerns for most people. Obviously, it's loaded for women, and the "easy" answer is punishing in lots of ways.
Yeah, the options are to conform to conventional beauty standards to the degree you can (maybe develop a defined personal style, i.e. the Chloe Sevigny/SJP answer to having unique beauty - you'd better believe they work at it!); cultivate an alternative standard and source of self-regard, either wrt looks or another domain of life, and make that standard and that source *powerful enough* to compensate for costs paid for not conforming lookswise; disengage altogether; accept what is and try to release anger about it; some combination of the above. I think you just have to decide what tradeoffs you're willing to live with. (I don't think it's an either-or question, though, I think most of us do "some combination of the above".)
Conforming women (I conform, to the degree I'm willing to, fyi) spend (lose) more or less money and time on self presentation, because they judge the cost of failing to conform as too high. My experience has been that people in general (not just at bars - shops, job interviews, everywhere) do treat you better and grant you more privileges, the closer you are to conventional standards. Which sucks. Not sure what's going to change that, though. Some celebrities - or a critical mass of celebrities - have enough influence to nudge the boundaries (a bit) of what's considered beautiful. Some people have enough charm/other capital to overcome biases. (Some people push boundaries because they have to, they don't have a choice. Some people do out of political conviction, or because they're sick of it - they develop strong alternative sources of self- and other-regard. It is *usually* easier to do this if you're not single, tbf.)
If you're dating and want to widen the pool of candidates, the truth is that's more likely to happen by conforming (a bit). Or, if you have a compelling personality/rest of the package, you could work harder to create opportunities to meet the right person - may take a bit longer. Being angry and bitter is not sexually (or generally) attractive to most people, though, and in dating, I guess that matters.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:05 AM on February 7, 2016
How others regard you, and how you regard yourself - self presentation and management - are central concerns for most people. Obviously, it's loaded for women, and the "easy" answer is punishing in lots of ways.
Yeah, the options are to conform to conventional beauty standards to the degree you can (maybe develop a defined personal style, i.e. the Chloe Sevigny/SJP answer to having unique beauty - you'd better believe they work at it!); cultivate an alternative standard and source of self-regard, either wrt looks or another domain of life, and make that standard and that source *powerful enough* to compensate for costs paid for not conforming lookswise; disengage altogether; accept what is and try to release anger about it; some combination of the above. I think you just have to decide what tradeoffs you're willing to live with. (I don't think it's an either-or question, though, I think most of us do "some combination of the above".)
Conforming women (I conform, to the degree I'm willing to, fyi) spend (lose) more or less money and time on self presentation, because they judge the cost of failing to conform as too high. My experience has been that people in general (not just at bars - shops, job interviews, everywhere) do treat you better and grant you more privileges, the closer you are to conventional standards. Which sucks. Not sure what's going to change that, though. Some celebrities - or a critical mass of celebrities - have enough influence to nudge the boundaries (a bit) of what's considered beautiful. Some people have enough charm/other capital to overcome biases. (Some people push boundaries because they have to, they don't have a choice. Some people do out of political conviction, or because they're sick of it - they develop strong alternative sources of self- and other-regard. It is *usually* easier to do this if you're not single, tbf.)
If you're dating and want to widen the pool of candidates, the truth is that's more likely to happen by conforming (a bit). Or, if you have a compelling personality/rest of the package, you could work harder to create opportunities to meet the right person - may take a bit longer. Being angry and bitter is not sexually (or generally) attractive to most people, though, and in dating, I guess that matters.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:05 AM on February 7, 2016
Makeup is stupid.Makeup is fun. A lot of people use it as a tool of self-expression. Also, it's been used for thousands of years, and for quite a long time, by both men and women. Some people spend hours cooking every day gourmet meals because they enjoy it. While it's not something I'd do myself, I can still see the value in it, rather than just assume it's stupid or trendy.
Actually, makeup is magic.
posted by 0cm at 9:12 AM on February 7, 2016
I could have written your question when I was in my late 20s. So, I get it. I really do.
As I grow older I have become increasingly aware of how we live in a society that tries to fuel all kinds of insecurities to make us conform and consume. As women we are told: be attractive! be attractive in a really specific way! be attractive in a really specific way and don’t have any opinions because that is unattractive! be attractive and then we will tear you down for being attractive!. It is so incredibly toxic. We are encouraged to buy our way to happiness/conformity and we only end up being eternally unhappy with ourselves.
Try to reframe the situation: Do you really want a relationship with a guy who judges you for how you look? Do you really want anyone who is shallow enough to dismiss a woman because of her hair texture? Anyone who won't give you the time of day until you learn how to apply flawless foundation and master contouring?
I hope you said nope out loud.
Your body is not a shameful, flawed object – it is just you. Your body carries you around the world - you use your legs to walk and your fingers to grab. Your body is amazing!
Go forth and spend your time in places that make you (as you) happy. Maybe find a sport you enjoy or a hobby that will make you feel empowered and strong. And wait for someone who will want you for who you really are and not for what hair product you use.
You go girl.
posted by kariebookish at 9:12 AM on February 7, 2016
As I grow older I have become increasingly aware of how we live in a society that tries to fuel all kinds of insecurities to make us conform and consume. As women we are told: be attractive! be attractive in a really specific way! be attractive in a really specific way and don’t have any opinions because that is unattractive! be attractive and then we will tear you down for being attractive!. It is so incredibly toxic. We are encouraged to buy our way to happiness/conformity and we only end up being eternally unhappy with ourselves.
Try to reframe the situation: Do you really want a relationship with a guy who judges you for how you look? Do you really want anyone who is shallow enough to dismiss a woman because of her hair texture? Anyone who won't give you the time of day until you learn how to apply flawless foundation and master contouring?
I hope you said nope out loud.
Your body is not a shameful, flawed object – it is just you. Your body carries you around the world - you use your legs to walk and your fingers to grab. Your body is amazing!
Go forth and spend your time in places that make you (as you) happy. Maybe find a sport you enjoy or a hobby that will make you feel empowered and strong. And wait for someone who will want you for who you really are and not for what hair product you use.
You go girl.
posted by kariebookish at 9:12 AM on February 7, 2016
About 90% of the time someone I know complains to me about a specific aspect of their appearance, it happens to be something I love about them, because it's something distinctive. Yes, lots of attractive people kind of glow from the inside out due to confidence and charisma, but I think a lot of people that make me go "wow" have strong, unusual personal styles or features. Play into your "issues" - your hair is frizzy? Can you really make it frizzed out and big? If your skin is blotchy, try bolder lip colors or an unusual eyeliner color.
Experiment with face moisturizers/oils until you find one you really really REALLY like, that makes your skin FEEL great, and find a perfume you love to wear. Then you feel beautiful and luxurious just walking around and you project that outward.
Stand up as straight as you can.
Finally, the best way to ensure you feel good about yourself is to surround yourself with genuine friends who aren't competitive about appearance and dating and who appreciate and love you (and let you know that loudly and often).
posted by sallybrown at 9:18 AM on February 7, 2016
Experiment with face moisturizers/oils until you find one you really really REALLY like, that makes your skin FEEL great, and find a perfume you love to wear. Then you feel beautiful and luxurious just walking around and you project that outward.
Stand up as straight as you can.
Finally, the best way to ensure you feel good about yourself is to surround yourself with genuine friends who aren't competitive about appearance and dating and who appreciate and love you (and let you know that loudly and often).
posted by sallybrown at 9:18 AM on February 7, 2016
(Also, you know, drunk dudes in dark bars aren't The Ultimate Deciders of who's attractive or not. My guy friends are more motivated by "hey that girl smiled at me, maybe I have a chance with her.")
posted by sallybrown at 9:21 AM on February 7, 2016
posted by sallybrown at 9:21 AM on February 7, 2016
I think there are relatively low-effort ways to improve one's appearance and that this can often lead to greater confidence.
True - it takes a bit of up-front effort to develop that set of knowledge and skills, but it doesn't necessarily take that much time (or money) once you figure things out. (I do my makeup in less than two minutes, hair is done in five to six.) And there are lots of resources now to help with doing it on a budget - beauty subs on reddit, makeupalley.com - I consider these kinds of sites expressions of consumer activism & (yes, conservative) avenues for personal empowerment (that does maintain the status quo - absolutely - but at least there's knowledge-sharing to help puncture the marketing, and make some of this easier and often cheaper). Fitness is useful for lots of reasons beyond making yourself look attractive. A good dermatologist could help with skin issues. All that external packaging dealt with, though, agree with everyone - you've got to live for your own happiness. That is the most attractive thing.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:33 AM on February 7, 2016
True - it takes a bit of up-front effort to develop that set of knowledge and skills, but it doesn't necessarily take that much time (or money) once you figure things out. (I do my makeup in less than two minutes, hair is done in five to six.) And there are lots of resources now to help with doing it on a budget - beauty subs on reddit, makeupalley.com - I consider these kinds of sites expressions of consumer activism & (yes, conservative) avenues for personal empowerment (that does maintain the status quo - absolutely - but at least there's knowledge-sharing to help puncture the marketing, and make some of this easier and often cheaper). Fitness is useful for lots of reasons beyond making yourself look attractive. A good dermatologist could help with skin issues. All that external packaging dealt with, though, agree with everyone - you've got to live for your own happiness. That is the most attractive thing.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:33 AM on February 7, 2016
I'm going to give an answer that's a variation on owning your anger rather than trying to make it evaporate. Because it's totally unfair how huge swaths of our society are judged as unattractive and thus lesser: fat people, trans people, people with visible disabilities, old people. Our society cruelly doles out privilege and marginalization to people for things over which they have no control, like lighter skin versus darker skin. It's not wrong to feel angry about that--in fact, I'd argue it's people who feel no anger about it who should examine what they are feeling and why. The question, then, becomes what to do with your anger, rather than trying to make it simply evaporate.
Relating this to your interest in finding a partner, I'd suggest making this foundational belief your context. Going to some bar or club where conformist and discriminatory beauty ideals are centered is clearly not making you happy. So I'd kill two birds with one stone, as it were, by channeling your anger into something productive, while putting yourself into contexts where you're much more likely to find a potential partner who believes beauty is about who you are as a person. There's a wide range of these--political, social, religious, artistic. Perhaps most directly related would be a feminist group that centers body-positivity (which could be anything from an all-sizes burlesque troupe to a roller derby club to a reading group). But organizations that aren't directly focused on body-positivity can be just as affirming. Joining a group that centers a passion of yours--hobby, fandom, political cause--puts you in a place where more people appreciate you for your interests rather than judge you by your appearance. I especially recommend groups dedicated to helping other people, as you can channel anger an inequity into positive action, while meeting like-minded others. These are also wide-ranging, from traditional charity, to cause-centered action groups. Also good are virtual spaces, and since you're here in one, those should work well for you. I met my spouse in a virtual world, and we courted there for months before meeting in person. I feel that by meeting in a place where you exchange ideas and thoughts and dreams, you meet another soul-first, as it were, decentering shallow assessments based on appearance.
So: I hope you can take your anger and work with it to work change on the world while you meet people who appreciate you!
posted by DrMew at 9:33 AM on February 7, 2016
Relating this to your interest in finding a partner, I'd suggest making this foundational belief your context. Going to some bar or club where conformist and discriminatory beauty ideals are centered is clearly not making you happy. So I'd kill two birds with one stone, as it were, by channeling your anger into something productive, while putting yourself into contexts where you're much more likely to find a potential partner who believes beauty is about who you are as a person. There's a wide range of these--political, social, religious, artistic. Perhaps most directly related would be a feminist group that centers body-positivity (which could be anything from an all-sizes burlesque troupe to a roller derby club to a reading group). But organizations that aren't directly focused on body-positivity can be just as affirming. Joining a group that centers a passion of yours--hobby, fandom, political cause--puts you in a place where more people appreciate you for your interests rather than judge you by your appearance. I especially recommend groups dedicated to helping other people, as you can channel anger an inequity into positive action, while meeting like-minded others. These are also wide-ranging, from traditional charity, to cause-centered action groups. Also good are virtual spaces, and since you're here in one, those should work well for you. I met my spouse in a virtual world, and we courted there for months before meeting in person. I feel that by meeting in a place where you exchange ideas and thoughts and dreams, you meet another soul-first, as it were, decentering shallow assessments based on appearance.
So: I hope you can take your anger and work with it to work change on the world while you meet people who appreciate you!
posted by DrMew at 9:33 AM on February 7, 2016
Taking steps to "improve" your appearance can make you feel more confident, but it can also make you feel resentful and wonder what the point is. So if you do want to change anything about your looks (and you absolutely don't have to!), go for things that have a low effort to impact ratio. You might decide that plucking your eyebrows once a week makes a huge difference, but wrestling with a hair dryer and round brush for twenty minutes every morning isn't worth it. Don't do anything that you hate or that doesn't seem to work for you.
Running and meditating are great, and they will make you feel welcome in your own body. I recommend expanding that into a variety of exercise, and see how they make you feel. Weightlifting and boxing make me feel powerful and tough; yoga makes me feel like I'm taking care of the inner workings of my body; swimming makes me temporarily forget that I have a body. Develop a relationship to your physical being that has nothing to do with aesthetics. Love your body as you would on a desert island with no mirrors.
Remove as many inadequacy triggers as you can; they're everywhere, they add up, and you can opt out of most of them. This can be as minor as buying your underwear at the Gap instead of Victoria's Secret - which sounds silly, but stuff like that does have a cumulative effect. Find hobbies, local hangouts, and friend groups that don't make you think about your appearance. To a more drastic (and completely optional) degree, changing jobs and moving to a different neighborhood can sometimes help a lot.
I think anger - towards society, never yourself - is an appropriate and needed response. But it's not productive or helpful to feel angry all the time, and you also deserve to feel good about yourself.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:44 AM on February 7, 2016
Running and meditating are great, and they will make you feel welcome in your own body. I recommend expanding that into a variety of exercise, and see how they make you feel. Weightlifting and boxing make me feel powerful and tough; yoga makes me feel like I'm taking care of the inner workings of my body; swimming makes me temporarily forget that I have a body. Develop a relationship to your physical being that has nothing to do with aesthetics. Love your body as you would on a desert island with no mirrors.
Remove as many inadequacy triggers as you can; they're everywhere, they add up, and you can opt out of most of them. This can be as minor as buying your underwear at the Gap instead of Victoria's Secret - which sounds silly, but stuff like that does have a cumulative effect. Find hobbies, local hangouts, and friend groups that don't make you think about your appearance. To a more drastic (and completely optional) degree, changing jobs and moving to a different neighborhood can sometimes help a lot.
I think anger - towards society, never yourself - is an appropriate and needed response. But it's not productive or helpful to feel angry all the time, and you also deserve to feel good about yourself.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:44 AM on February 7, 2016
I promise you that regardless of your appearance, regardless of your assessment of your appearance, there will be someone (or even many people) who see you as beautiful. There is so much more to perception of beauty than simply physical attributes. To someone who you make feel good about themself, you will be gorgeous.
Please don't look for love at clubs/bars. Few people there are seeking the connection you want. The superficiality of their expectations is bound to leave you feeling lacking even if you do look the part.
Do something else with your time. Volunteer somewhere - I am a Volunteer Coordinator and can tell you with absolute truth that people forge deep connections, lasting friendships, and more with the people they meet volunteering in places that matter to them. (Museum? Habitat? Library? Community Theater? It doesn't matter where. Pick something you like and go help there.) It while be a different focus for your thoughts, too.
posted by AliceBlue at 9:48 AM on February 7, 2016
Please don't look for love at clubs/bars. Few people there are seeking the connection you want. The superficiality of their expectations is bound to leave you feeling lacking even if you do look the part.
Do something else with your time. Volunteer somewhere - I am a Volunteer Coordinator and can tell you with absolute truth that people forge deep connections, lasting friendships, and more with the people they meet volunteering in places that matter to them. (Museum? Habitat? Library? Community Theater? It doesn't matter where. Pick something you like and go help there.) It while be a different focus for your thoughts, too.
posted by AliceBlue at 9:48 AM on February 7, 2016
Still thinking about this, and re-read your questions and honed in inadequacy.
If I spent my free time in an environment where adherence to patriarchal beauty standards were the most important contribution I, as a woman, could make, I too would feel inadequate and angry.
I would also feel inadequate (but more entertained) at trivia night with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye, or karaoke with Aretha Franklin.
Carve your own path. Figure out what you want offer the world and throw yourself into it. Nobody gives a shit that Aretha is no size 4 or that deGrasse Tyson's fashion sense is questionable or that Ghandi and Eleanor Roosevelt were, let's face it, not setting the world on fire with looks.
Everyone feels inadequate about something. Many women (and men) feel inadequate about how they appear, and everyone comes up with their own way to cope with this. But luckily there are many dimensions to the world besides appearance. Make a choice with your time and your energy about what you will focus on, and go for it.
posted by bunderful at 9:52 AM on February 7, 2016
If I spent my free time in an environment where adherence to patriarchal beauty standards were the most important contribution I, as a woman, could make, I too would feel inadequate and angry.
I would also feel inadequate (but more entertained) at trivia night with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye, or karaoke with Aretha Franklin.
Carve your own path. Figure out what you want offer the world and throw yourself into it. Nobody gives a shit that Aretha is no size 4 or that deGrasse Tyson's fashion sense is questionable or that Ghandi and Eleanor Roosevelt were, let's face it, not setting the world on fire with looks.
Everyone feels inadequate about something. Many women (and men) feel inadequate about how they appear, and everyone comes up with their own way to cope with this. But luckily there are many dimensions to the world besides appearance. Make a choice with your time and your energy about what you will focus on, and go for it.
posted by bunderful at 9:52 AM on February 7, 2016
Volunteering is a pretty good way to feel better about yourself. Not only do you see others who are worse off than you but then you are doing something to help them. I work in social services and when I'm feeling bad about myself, I look around and tell myself to shut the hell up about my stupid cellulite. I have two legs that carry me around. I have a roof over my head. My refrigerator is full. I have a job. I can go to the doctor and get help when I need it.
I'm not trying to lecture you or tell you to suck it up (hate hate hate that phrase) but I am thinking a little perspective might help. All of us have been where you are. Even the physically attractive among us. It's just hard to get out of that hole. So maybe try out some volunteer work. And if you meet someone there, you know already s/he is a cooler person since you are both volunteers! Try an animal shelter (walking dogs is fun!) or one of those beach cleanup events (fresh air, people who care about the environment!) or reading to kids at the library, etc. Just do something to get outside your own head. And being told "thank you" is a big boost.
Running is a brilliant move. I can't change my looks but always I feel better and I'm sure I come across as more confident/happier/lighter when I am taking care of myself, exercising and eating right, and feeling stronger. Just give it time.
Very best of luck to you! You can do it!
posted by Beti at 9:54 AM on February 7, 2016
I'm not trying to lecture you or tell you to suck it up (hate hate hate that phrase) but I am thinking a little perspective might help. All of us have been where you are. Even the physically attractive among us. It's just hard to get out of that hole. So maybe try out some volunteer work. And if you meet someone there, you know already s/he is a cooler person since you are both volunteers! Try an animal shelter (walking dogs is fun!) or one of those beach cleanup events (fresh air, people who care about the environment!) or reading to kids at the library, etc. Just do something to get outside your own head. And being told "thank you" is a big boost.
Running is a brilliant move. I can't change my looks but always I feel better and I'm sure I come across as more confident/happier/lighter when I am taking care of myself, exercising and eating right, and feeling stronger. Just give it time.
Very best of luck to you! You can do it!
posted by Beti at 9:54 AM on February 7, 2016
There is very likely absolutely nothing wrong with your looks. Here are tips to get approached in bars:
1. Look relaxed and happy.
2. Look around the room, trying to catch men's eyes. This tells them that you are interested in being approached.
3. Chat men up. (Make a joke about something in the environment, etc.) It can help if you practice just chatting people up in general.
Once and only once you have started practicing all these things with zero results should you come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with your looks.
posted by Milau at 10:14 AM on February 7, 2016
1. Look relaxed and happy.
2. Look around the room, trying to catch men's eyes. This tells them that you are interested in being approached.
3. Chat men up. (Make a joke about something in the environment, etc.) It can help if you practice just chatting people up in general.
Once and only once you have started practicing all these things with zero results should you come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with your looks.
posted by Milau at 10:14 AM on February 7, 2016
Clubs are horrible places to meet anyone, and I say that as a woman who used to turn heads in clubs. Don't try to meet men in clubs.
Anger at patriarchal beauty standards is understandable. But it's not attractive, any more than the anger of MRA/PUA types who think they "deserve" a woman ... regardless of their looks or personality.
I don't advocate spending your entire wild and precious life playing the beauty game. But I do feel that people fall into two categories regardless of their physical assets ... people who look like they give a damn about themselves and people who don't. Some European friends have described it as "reflecting well on the scenery" although I'm not sure I'm translating that perfectly.
You don't owe men (or anyone) beauty. But life is much more pleasant (male and female) when you dress and carry yourself as if you're the star of your own show. This doesn't require being rich, beautiful, or thin. It shows on the outside, but is a reflection of what's within.
Good luck to you my dear.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 11:11 AM on February 7, 2016
Anger at patriarchal beauty standards is understandable. But it's not attractive, any more than the anger of MRA/PUA types who think they "deserve" a woman ... regardless of their looks or personality.
I don't advocate spending your entire wild and precious life playing the beauty game. But I do feel that people fall into two categories regardless of their physical assets ... people who look like they give a damn about themselves and people who don't. Some European friends have described it as "reflecting well on the scenery" although I'm not sure I'm translating that perfectly.
You don't owe men (or anyone) beauty. But life is much more pleasant (male and female) when you dress and carry yourself as if you're the star of your own show. This doesn't require being rich, beautiful, or thin. It shows on the outside, but is a reflection of what's within.
Good luck to you my dear.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 11:11 AM on February 7, 2016
For me, a lot of this went away when I hit my thirties. Part of it was I started taking better care of myself, learned what I can and can't do with my hair (must have bangs, can't have short hair, must blow it dry every time I wash it). I wear a little makeup to cover up my terrible skin and dark circles, and dress in a way that is flattering for my body.
But the comparing myself to others, anger at my huge nose and chubby figure - that all has mostly gone away. I think it's just part of the confidence of not being my 20s anymore.
posted by getawaysticks at 11:18 AM on February 7, 2016
But the comparing myself to others, anger at my huge nose and chubby figure - that all has mostly gone away. I think it's just part of the confidence of not being my 20s anymore.
posted by getawaysticks at 11:18 AM on February 7, 2016
Not trying to argue with other people in thread, but please don't listen to the ones that go "do X Y Z about your appearance". I know how hackneyed it's going to sound, but happiness comes from within, not from the way you look. My mother used to tell me "maybe if you lost some weight, you'd be happier." BULLSHIT! It was exactly the other way round - when I was finally happier, I was able to lose some weight. Now I work with my body, not against it. We do races and get muddy together, I don't force it to conform to some stupid societal ideal (GRRRR).
Running and meditating are very good first steps. Getting older also probably helps. Therapy can be good. Eat clean, look after yourself - but do it because you care for you, not because you want someone else to look at you in a particular way. NB I'm not saying any of this is easy. It's way harder work than getting a haircut and putting on make up! But trust me that it will have more beneficial results, long term.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 12:03 PM on February 7, 2016
Running and meditating are very good first steps. Getting older also probably helps. Therapy can be good. Eat clean, look after yourself - but do it because you care for you, not because you want someone else to look at you in a particular way. NB I'm not saying any of this is easy. It's way harder work than getting a haircut and putting on make up! But trust me that it will have more beneficial results, long term.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 12:03 PM on February 7, 2016
Some thoughts that might hopefully help you put things in perspective:
1. Society as a whole is superficial. Humans are still very primitive creatures. Most of us go by instinct and emotion and maybe rationalize it later as something else. People are pretty messed up. You can see this everywhere (racism, sexism, transphobia etc.) It's the reality we live in.
2. You can see your issues as being patriarchal, OR maybe just that men in general are either taught or are already inclined to be more visual. The gay dating scene for men is often criticized for being extremely superficial, to the point where the running joke is that "gay death" occurs at 30. Taller men tend to outearn their shorter counterparts for every inch of height. Just letting you know superficiality affects a lot of people in all kinds of ridiculous ways.
3. I would venture to guess people looking to hookup in U.S. bars are 100 times more superficial than that.
4. Now, pretend our society didn't exist for a moment. Do you think YOU are attractive? Is the way you look acceptable to yourself? What do YOU want to look like? You might find that you find yourself goddamn perfect, warts and all. You might find yourself as sexy as hell. Or you might find you don't really care. Maybe you find you just "are." Knowing how you feel about your own looks, and clarifying it, will help you from feeling unmoored, and keep society's opinions from creeping in. Until you figure out how you feel about your own appearance, you're going to be constantly confused/angry/resentful/hurt. I personally like the attitude of loving every last inch of me, and finding my body and face interesting, almost in a surreal way. But why not? Society's views are no less arbitrary.
5. Realize a lot of things are achievable through makeup/surgery/exercise etc. The question is, is it worth it to you to go there? How much do you want to play by society's rules? You can get surgery. Your blotchy skin is something that can be easily covered, if you learn the right makeup techniques. You can dress differently. You can keep working out. All these things are in your reach. IF YOU WANT. And there really should be no shame in whatever decision you make. None of us chose our bodies or faces. It shouldn't be seen as a bad thing to experiment or play around with them, if we like. Some of those things can be enjoyable to do. Some of it is risky and expensive. *And reminder, you can do all of these things, but it will never guarantee you certain things beyond the initial attraction. Charming, beautiful, successful, hot, kind women etc., have been dumped, cheated on, abused and divorced.
6. My favorite mental attitude, and one that works for me, no matter what I look like on a particular day/month/year: "This is the way I look. If you don't like it, you can fuck off. That's your problem." Takes care of the resentment, anyway.
posted by neeta at 12:17 PM on February 7, 2016
1. Society as a whole is superficial. Humans are still very primitive creatures. Most of us go by instinct and emotion and maybe rationalize it later as something else. People are pretty messed up. You can see this everywhere (racism, sexism, transphobia etc.) It's the reality we live in.
2. You can see your issues as being patriarchal, OR maybe just that men in general are either taught or are already inclined to be more visual. The gay dating scene for men is often criticized for being extremely superficial, to the point where the running joke is that "gay death" occurs at 30. Taller men tend to outearn their shorter counterparts for every inch of height. Just letting you know superficiality affects a lot of people in all kinds of ridiculous ways.
3. I would venture to guess people looking to hookup in U.S. bars are 100 times more superficial than that.
4. Now, pretend our society didn't exist for a moment. Do you think YOU are attractive? Is the way you look acceptable to yourself? What do YOU want to look like? You might find that you find yourself goddamn perfect, warts and all. You might find yourself as sexy as hell. Or you might find you don't really care. Maybe you find you just "are." Knowing how you feel about your own looks, and clarifying it, will help you from feeling unmoored, and keep society's opinions from creeping in. Until you figure out how you feel about your own appearance, you're going to be constantly confused/angry/resentful/hurt. I personally like the attitude of loving every last inch of me, and finding my body and face interesting, almost in a surreal way. But why not? Society's views are no less arbitrary.
5. Realize a lot of things are achievable through makeup/surgery/exercise etc. The question is, is it worth it to you to go there? How much do you want to play by society's rules? You can get surgery. Your blotchy skin is something that can be easily covered, if you learn the right makeup techniques. You can dress differently. You can keep working out. All these things are in your reach. IF YOU WANT. And there really should be no shame in whatever decision you make. None of us chose our bodies or faces. It shouldn't be seen as a bad thing to experiment or play around with them, if we like. Some of those things can be enjoyable to do. Some of it is risky and expensive. *And reminder, you can do all of these things, but it will never guarantee you certain things beyond the initial attraction. Charming, beautiful, successful, hot, kind women etc., have been dumped, cheated on, abused and divorced.
6. My favorite mental attitude, and one that works for me, no matter what I look like on a particular day/month/year: "This is the way I look. If you don't like it, you can fuck off. That's your problem." Takes care of the resentment, anyway.
posted by neeta at 12:17 PM on February 7, 2016
Sorry, skipped to the bottom.
You know, I've been called beautiful and pretty at times, but I know that my looks are nothing much -- they're fine, but no feature, except perhaps my eyebrows, is really wonderful, and my ridiculously curly hair was often a trial.
The trick to attractiveness is actually not stunning looks, but finding ways to look healthy and engaged. All the things that are troubling you about your looks are easy to address without getting on the anti-woman merry go round of our looks obsessed culture. For difficult hair, you want a good hairdresser to cut it well and some good hair products. (I like Lush.). For blotchy skin, I'd visit a dermatologist and use gentle skin products/some cosmetics. For being overweight, a go slow approach that gets you exercising regularly and eating healthily is likely to get you to a weight that makes you happier and more mobile.
And hang with people who make you laugh, who engage you, who bring out the light in your eyes. So much of attractiveness is about that -- think of people whose photos make you feel good who are far from traditionally attractive, like Eleanor Roosevelt, Golda Meir, Mother Theresa . . . It really is about what is inside and showing.
And, as I believe many others have said in this thread, stay away from bars and other places where people judge each other based solely on looks. They are called "meat markets" for a reason, and you are NOT meat. You are a wonderful looking person in the process of emerging.
posted by bearwife at 12:21 PM on February 7, 2016
You know, I've been called beautiful and pretty at times, but I know that my looks are nothing much -- they're fine, but no feature, except perhaps my eyebrows, is really wonderful, and my ridiculously curly hair was often a trial.
The trick to attractiveness is actually not stunning looks, but finding ways to look healthy and engaged. All the things that are troubling you about your looks are easy to address without getting on the anti-woman merry go round of our looks obsessed culture. For difficult hair, you want a good hairdresser to cut it well and some good hair products. (I like Lush.). For blotchy skin, I'd visit a dermatologist and use gentle skin products/some cosmetics. For being overweight, a go slow approach that gets you exercising regularly and eating healthily is likely to get you to a weight that makes you happier and more mobile.
And hang with people who make you laugh, who engage you, who bring out the light in your eyes. So much of attractiveness is about that -- think of people whose photos make you feel good who are far from traditionally attractive, like Eleanor Roosevelt, Golda Meir, Mother Theresa . . . It really is about what is inside and showing.
And, as I believe many others have said in this thread, stay away from bars and other places where people judge each other based solely on looks. They are called "meat markets" for a reason, and you are NOT meat. You are a wonderful looking person in the process of emerging.
posted by bearwife at 12:21 PM on February 7, 2016
*And reminder, you can do all of these things, but it will never guarantee you certain things beyond the initial attraction. Charming, beautiful, successful, hot, kind women etc., have been dumped, cheated on, abused and divorced.
Oh man, that is the truth. I know some very beautiful people whose relationship experiences I do not envy in the least.
posted by bunderful at 12:30 PM on February 7, 2016
Oh man, that is the truth. I know some very beautiful people whose relationship experiences I do not envy in the least.
posted by bunderful at 12:30 PM on February 7, 2016
Some practical thingies:
1. Drink water.
2. Yoga!
Aand before you go like "noo, WTF kind of BS advice is this / not flexible enough! / meh / etc. etc." - I say yes! DO! Cuz you don't hit the gym already strong - you go there to get there. Every juicers with arms the size of your head started out with noodle arms. For serious.
Yoga does wonders for body acceptance, you get to know your strengths, and you learn how to see your body as more than than just the sum of its parts and pieces that you find disappointing. It also helps with feeling blue and is a great stress buster. My hub can always tell when I've just come off the mat, he says I stand taller. Also theres this general feeling that people who do yoga eat healthier because you're more conscious in regards to what they're doing throughout the day, so they make better choices food-wise (or maybe its all the inversions scrambling their brains). And if you really don't want to do yoga - dance. kick off your shoes and boogie around in the living room in your socks and dance like no one is watching (no one is). Its good to be silly. that fun starts to seep into other parts of your life. Anyway, my advice, is decide to be buds with your body. You only get one! Own it. Its taken you to all kinds of places and is a thing of wonder. You can sing, bounce, scream, and laugh, cry (do both at the same time) and yawn (we don't even know why we yawn!! but we put people on the moon!) and it fights amoebas for you and keeps all your organs in order and your brain suspended in GOO and its really awesome. So show it some love, give it some work, even if it is taking the stairs or walking a block or two extra.
3. Frizzy hair (do you have curly hair? yay for us fuzzballs. the struggle is real.)
!!
TLC! Slather it in coconut oil overnight and wash it out in the morning. Or, you might be interested in the the curly girl method
4. Skin. oh poop. this can be many things > diet (allergies/intolerances/poor food choices), stress, hormonal, pollution......i've been there. i dropped wheat & dairy (can't lie. is painful at times. would live off carbs if i could..) and saw a world of change. I also warmly recommend the minimalist beauty - she's got a refreshing approach to the classic beauty regime, which i think might be more up your alley than going to ulta and spending 400 bones on MAC and hair straighteners. Also reddits SkincareAddiction and AsianBeauty are great resources.
5. I'm not the best one to say, buut. self acceptance is pretty bomb. loving yourself is a pretty good thing (when not taken to excess. i guess like most things. people above have put this a lot more eloquently than i ever could, so believe!!) - i saw this video awhile back and it's actually really good advice.
And I kinda feel, that when you feel a bit happier doing your own thing..liking yourself, you make it easier for other people to want to hang out with you and maybe even make out with you. I have some buddies who just keep putting themselves so so so down, and then wonder why no one wants to make babies with them. And i'm like hey dude, seriously, if you were looking to buy a car and the salesman was like "HI! here's a nice car! but OH! DONT LOOK AT THESE SHITTY RIMS AND OMG PLEASE IGNORE THE RUST AND DENTS..AND THE MILEAGE IS QUITE BAD TOO!! but otherwise! its a car!" you lose that sale pretty quick. sorry if thats so roughly put, but its true. All of us have flaws, they're just part of the package. But you don't have to magnify that shit, focus on the good, treat yourself like you would a good friend and see where it takes you. Best of luck.
posted by speakeasy at 12:43 PM on February 7, 2016
1. Drink water.
2. Yoga!
Aand before you go like "noo, WTF kind of BS advice is this / not flexible enough! / meh / etc. etc." - I say yes! DO! Cuz you don't hit the gym already strong - you go there to get there. Every juicers with arms the size of your head started out with noodle arms. For serious.
Yoga does wonders for body acceptance, you get to know your strengths, and you learn how to see your body as more than than just the sum of its parts and pieces that you find disappointing. It also helps with feeling blue and is a great stress buster. My hub can always tell when I've just come off the mat, he says I stand taller. Also theres this general feeling that people who do yoga eat healthier because you're more conscious in regards to what they're doing throughout the day, so they make better choices food-wise (or maybe its all the inversions scrambling their brains). And if you really don't want to do yoga - dance. kick off your shoes and boogie around in the living room in your socks and dance like no one is watching (no one is). Its good to be silly. that fun starts to seep into other parts of your life. Anyway, my advice, is decide to be buds with your body. You only get one! Own it. Its taken you to all kinds of places and is a thing of wonder. You can sing, bounce, scream, and laugh, cry (do both at the same time) and yawn (we don't even know why we yawn!! but we put people on the moon!) and it fights amoebas for you and keeps all your organs in order and your brain suspended in GOO and its really awesome. So show it some love, give it some work, even if it is taking the stairs or walking a block or two extra.
3. Frizzy hair (do you have curly hair? yay for us fuzzballs. the struggle is real.)
!!
TLC! Slather it in coconut oil overnight and wash it out in the morning. Or, you might be interested in the the curly girl method
4. Skin. oh poop. this can be many things > diet (allergies/intolerances/poor food choices), stress, hormonal, pollution......i've been there. i dropped wheat & dairy (can't lie. is painful at times. would live off carbs if i could..) and saw a world of change. I also warmly recommend the minimalist beauty - she's got a refreshing approach to the classic beauty regime, which i think might be more up your alley than going to ulta and spending 400 bones on MAC and hair straighteners. Also reddits SkincareAddiction and AsianBeauty are great resources.
5. I'm not the best one to say, buut. self acceptance is pretty bomb. loving yourself is a pretty good thing (when not taken to excess. i guess like most things. people above have put this a lot more eloquently than i ever could, so believe!!) - i saw this video awhile back and it's actually really good advice.
And I kinda feel, that when you feel a bit happier doing your own thing..liking yourself, you make it easier for other people to want to hang out with you and maybe even make out with you. I have some buddies who just keep putting themselves so so so down, and then wonder why no one wants to make babies with them. And i'm like hey dude, seriously, if you were looking to buy a car and the salesman was like "HI! here's a nice car! but OH! DONT LOOK AT THESE SHITTY RIMS AND OMG PLEASE IGNORE THE RUST AND DENTS..AND THE MILEAGE IS QUITE BAD TOO!! but otherwise! its a car!" you lose that sale pretty quick. sorry if thats so roughly put, but its true. All of us have flaws, they're just part of the package. But you don't have to magnify that shit, focus on the good, treat yourself like you would a good friend and see where it takes you. Best of luck.
posted by speakeasy at 12:43 PM on February 7, 2016
Ohh shit just occurred to me! Have you had your thyroid values checked?
Because weight gain, hair & skin problems as well as feeling down could be a symptom of hypothyroidism
posted by speakeasy at 12:47 PM on February 7, 2016
Because weight gain, hair & skin problems as well as feeling down could be a symptom of hypothyroidism
posted by speakeasy at 12:47 PM on February 7, 2016
I haven't had good relationship experiences either. When I was younger I thought it was all about my looks. Now that I'm older and I have a little bit more insight I know it wasn't about my looks at all. Fact is, I always had too much fear to be in a close relationship.
I have a lot of resentment about how my life came down in this area too. This may or may not be you ... I just want to point out that relationships don't depend as much on looks as you think or as some people will tell you.
I would encourage you to find a physical activity that you enjoy... and this is just about learning to appreciate your body and what it can do, not about adjusting your looks or weight. Running may be it ... or not. I just went snowshoeing and really enjoyed it. Yoga is also an excellent idea.
As always, therapy may help with the anger too. Also, there are online and IRL communities of like-minded people who support each other. I found a wonderful maker space yesterday entirely by accident, populated by women over fifty and junior high/high school kids of color. The vibe was awesome. I'm going back.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 12:53 PM on February 7, 2016
I have a lot of resentment about how my life came down in this area too. This may or may not be you ... I just want to point out that relationships don't depend as much on looks as you think or as some people will tell you.
I would encourage you to find a physical activity that you enjoy... and this is just about learning to appreciate your body and what it can do, not about adjusting your looks or weight. Running may be it ... or not. I just went snowshoeing and really enjoyed it. Yoga is also an excellent idea.
As always, therapy may help with the anger too. Also, there are online and IRL communities of like-minded people who support each other. I found a wonderful maker space yesterday entirely by accident, populated by women over fifty and junior high/high school kids of color. The vibe was awesome. I'm going back.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 12:53 PM on February 7, 2016
When do you feel the best? Do you ever feel good about yourself? Those are your priorities.
Who do you think is hot? What are you attracted to? What are those qualities?
The approval comes from YOU, no one will ever care enough to give it to you. A relationship where you're looking for it from your partner will be codependent at best. Learn to love yourself and be confident in your existence.
On a practical level:
Quit going to bars and feeling rejected. That's some lowest-common-denominator shallow type scene, it's not for you. It's ok. I don't even know WHO it's for. Go out and have fun with your friends, but don't use that as a measure of your self worth.
SELF CARE. You are worth it. Overweight and blotchy skin and frizzy hair are fine but you talk about them like they're negative and these things you've been cursed with and your excuses for being "unattractive" as opposed to the reality of most people and things they work to mitigate. Work out, eat well, get a skin care routine going, learn how to deal with your hair in a way that works for YOU. Nothing needs to be "perfect" but you need to accept yourself as you are and take care of yourself.
Keep meditating until you realize that perfection is a lie and you're worth as much as anyone else.
A little sideways, but: is your house messy? Start cleaning it. You deserve a nice home. You deserve to spend time on yourself to make your space pleasing to you and not anxiety-inducing.
Your body is also your home.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 1:37 PM on February 7, 2016
Who do you think is hot? What are you attracted to? What are those qualities?
The approval comes from YOU, no one will ever care enough to give it to you. A relationship where you're looking for it from your partner will be codependent at best. Learn to love yourself and be confident in your existence.
On a practical level:
Quit going to bars and feeling rejected. That's some lowest-common-denominator shallow type scene, it's not for you. It's ok. I don't even know WHO it's for. Go out and have fun with your friends, but don't use that as a measure of your self worth.
SELF CARE. You are worth it. Overweight and blotchy skin and frizzy hair are fine but you talk about them like they're negative and these things you've been cursed with and your excuses for being "unattractive" as opposed to the reality of most people and things they work to mitigate. Work out, eat well, get a skin care routine going, learn how to deal with your hair in a way that works for YOU. Nothing needs to be "perfect" but you need to accept yourself as you are and take care of yourself.
Keep meditating until you realize that perfection is a lie and you're worth as much as anyone else.
A little sideways, but: is your house messy? Start cleaning it. You deserve a nice home. You deserve to spend time on yourself to make your space pleasing to you and not anxiety-inducing.
Your body is also your home.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 1:37 PM on February 7, 2016
Also, on the slight-shade-to-your-friends side: if you want to date just anyone, make yourself attractive to the bigger proportion of people. If you want to date the person right for YOU, make yourself attractive to yourself.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 1:42 PM on February 7, 2016
posted by jeweled accumulation at 1:42 PM on February 7, 2016
I was just reading a thread on a makeup board the other day about how wearing more makeup (and a lot of makeup!) has actually made a lot of us happier with how our natural face looks. I think the reason for that is when you can make yourself up like a Hollywood star, you realize that it's not that those people truly look a million times better than the rest of us, it's that they have good bone structure and the rest is caked on from there.
If you don't like wearing makeup but you don't like your splotchy skin, try a BB cream. It's just tinted moisturizer and often has an SPF in it. I think accepting your splotchy skin is a good alternative, but realizing that you can cover up the splotches if you feel like it might make you realize they're not so bad after all. (Apologies if you already wear makeup, I'm assuming you don't since nearly every woman I know naturally has splotches of some kind or another.)
I also have frizzy hair so I cut it into a pixie cut. Now I don't worry about it. Otherwise, try a good cut and some curl cream or smoothing spray, or a flat iron. Experiment.
On the weight side of things, it's true that getting men as a skinny girl is like shooting fish in a barrel. This also means you end up with a lot of guys you're not that enthusiastic about because they sought you out for your body but pretend to like you and you were like, "well, OK."
Frankly once you realize that so much of being "pretty" and "feminine" is a big costume show it gets easier to accept the places where you don't match up to the magazines. It's just a skill set, for the most part.
I am cute and have had many boyfriends but I never get hit on in bars. That's just not my style, I don't give off the "fun vibes" that encourage that kind of thing. Even if I did get hit on I'd find it more disturbing than fun, I think. Trying to be someone you're not is just going to be punishing.
Ultimately, though, washing your face and "taking care" of your hair might not make you look the way you want to look. As I get older I care less about looking a certain way and care more about sharing my life with someone who really makes me happy. You are a subject, not an object.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:00 PM on February 7, 2016
If you don't like wearing makeup but you don't like your splotchy skin, try a BB cream. It's just tinted moisturizer and often has an SPF in it. I think accepting your splotchy skin is a good alternative, but realizing that you can cover up the splotches if you feel like it might make you realize they're not so bad after all. (Apologies if you already wear makeup, I'm assuming you don't since nearly every woman I know naturally has splotches of some kind or another.)
I also have frizzy hair so I cut it into a pixie cut. Now I don't worry about it. Otherwise, try a good cut and some curl cream or smoothing spray, or a flat iron. Experiment.
On the weight side of things, it's true that getting men as a skinny girl is like shooting fish in a barrel. This also means you end up with a lot of guys you're not that enthusiastic about because they sought you out for your body but pretend to like you and you were like, "well, OK."
Frankly once you realize that so much of being "pretty" and "feminine" is a big costume show it gets easier to accept the places where you don't match up to the magazines. It's just a skill set, for the most part.
I am cute and have had many boyfriends but I never get hit on in bars. That's just not my style, I don't give off the "fun vibes" that encourage that kind of thing. Even if I did get hit on I'd find it more disturbing than fun, I think. Trying to be someone you're not is just going to be punishing.
Ultimately, though, washing your face and "taking care" of your hair might not make you look the way you want to look. As I get older I care less about looking a certain way and care more about sharing my life with someone who really makes me happy. You are a subject, not an object.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:00 PM on February 7, 2016
OP I'm really very sorry for all the garbage advice in this thread. I'm going to assume you're an adult who has lived in society for your entire life and therefore has heard all about makeup, eyebrow waxing, hair products, weight loss, acne medications, and all that stuff. In fact I'm going to go ahead and assume, you've heard nothing BUT this stop nonstop for your entire life and therefore don't need to be talked down to about it. I'm assuming this because I'm in a similar position to you and I am very sure I know more about these topics than anyone needs to, even though hair products do nothing for my frizzy hair, makeup does nothing for my skin, nothing helped my acne except time, nothing has ever helped me lose weight, and I'm invisible to so many people that at some points during college I actually wondered if I was literally a ghost. Ignore any advice in this thread that you want to ignore.
The thing is is that you only have one life and you have to make the best of it. Everyone else is also living their own life as they see fit. Anyone who judges you for how you look has their own messed up issues and will just have to deal with missing out on the awesomeness you bring to the table. You're better off without them. Those other women you're comparing yourself to have their own issues too. You are doing great. Running and meditating are great things to do for your own sake. Anything you choose to do that you think will make yourself feel good is a great thing to do for your own sake.
posted by bleep at 3:09 PM on February 7, 2016
The thing is is that you only have one life and you have to make the best of it. Everyone else is also living their own life as they see fit. Anyone who judges you for how you look has their own messed up issues and will just have to deal with missing out on the awesomeness you bring to the table. You're better off without them. Those other women you're comparing yourself to have their own issues too. You are doing great. Running and meditating are great things to do for your own sake. Anything you choose to do that you think will make yourself feel good is a great thing to do for your own sake.
posted by bleep at 3:09 PM on February 7, 2016
I don't think this is question is about a beauty regimen. It is about self esteem in a world where no woman measures up, and where you are losing a comparison battle with your friends in an environment where that particular comparison means more than usual.
So, how to turn the resentment down.
One way is to refocus on something else. Take yourself out of situations where Western Idealized Feminine Beauty is the focus: no clubs, no women's magazines, no makeover shows, drop certain conversations with certain friends, etc. Then put yourself in situations where that isn't the focus: follow feeds on Facebook (or wherever) that are celebrating women for something else (Humans of New York, Smart Girls, Stumptuous), follow alternative/queer/healthy-at-any-size fashion, get super into your hobbies and interests, find amazing art and music and literature.
In other words, move away from the attacks and towards something welcoming.
And maybe get into therapy and really dig into it, figure out what's underneath it and how to shift it inside yourself. Society teaches many of us to hate ourselves for various reasons, and internalized hate and shame is very real and hurtful. I hope you find your healing.
posted by sadmadglad at 3:18 PM on February 7, 2016
So, how to turn the resentment down.
One way is to refocus on something else. Take yourself out of situations where Western Idealized Feminine Beauty is the focus: no clubs, no women's magazines, no makeover shows, drop certain conversations with certain friends, etc. Then put yourself in situations where that isn't the focus: follow feeds on Facebook (or wherever) that are celebrating women for something else (Humans of New York, Smart Girls, Stumptuous), follow alternative/queer/healthy-at-any-size fashion, get super into your hobbies and interests, find amazing art and music and literature.
In other words, move away from the attacks and towards something welcoming.
And maybe get into therapy and really dig into it, figure out what's underneath it and how to shift it inside yourself. Society teaches many of us to hate ourselves for various reasons, and internalized hate and shame is very real and hurtful. I hope you find your healing.
posted by sadmadglad at 3:18 PM on February 7, 2016
Fuck that noise, seriously. Fuck it all to hell.
I'm fat, I have zits and patches of eczema and my hair is a fuzzball (even an inch long is fuzz and can end up wildly bedhaired, how does that even work?). My belly pooches out and sags in a w shape, and my thighs slap together when I run up the stairs. My face is lopsided naturally and thanks to scars and aging, I have frown lines, I'm just generally not pretty-pretty at all. I detailed my brain-based methods for dealing with this.
I've found that's the only thing that works. A good haircut entails a bunch of stuff in my hair, and a bunch of things to do and ugh I just can't be fucked. I would much rather buzz it all off (which I did), dye the remnants blue (which I have) and get tattoos (which I also did). Embrace the you that you've let stagnate under the idea of 'pretty' and 'open' and 'healthy looking' and 'likeable'. Have you always wanted purple hair? Bleach that shit and dye it ($10 bleach kit from the supermarket + $20 Dare hairdye in whatever colour you want). You like drapey Japanese dress-shirt-tunic things? Wear the fuck out of them, who cares if they hide your shape.
Because, as alluded to above, the person who demands you conform to mainstream beauty standards will never ever be satisfied with the you underneath, right? My partner started life that way, thanks to something like actual indoctrination by his dad. He came around though, before he started dating me. He didn't date me because I can gussie myself up in retro vintage waist crushing, face glooping, hair singe-ing pseudo-prettiness, he dated me because I was smart and funny and weird and sometimes wore a suit with a tie and usually wore jeans and a t-shirt and rarely shaved and made faces at people who gave me shit for being hairy. We know couples where one, or both, have these weird beauty standards and as we've all aged and spread and changed, they're getting meaner and meaner to each other about gym time and diet and beauty maintenance. They get sad and angry about the havoc wreaked by pregnancy (both sides) and it's so so so tiresome.
Dating is harder when you're an outlier, and not submitting to beauty standards is being an outlier (I feel you on the makeup thing, I have my set down pat for interviews and fancy nights out but ugh it feels so ick and I don't like how my face looks even if it does look prettier). It's worth it in the long run though. Go out to get to know people, not pick up, and I think it'll probably work better.
I don't know if it'll make you feel better but I have a woman I play games with sometimes and I've only seen her like, once maybe? And she's got crazy fuzzy hair (we commiserate about it) and is soft and fat and I'm kind of working this crazy crush right now because god she's funny and witty and sarcastic as hell and has made her life her own after some serious bad shit and yeah.
posted by geek anachronism at 5:44 PM on February 7, 2016
I'm fat, I have zits and patches of eczema and my hair is a fuzzball (even an inch long is fuzz and can end up wildly bedhaired, how does that even work?). My belly pooches out and sags in a w shape, and my thighs slap together when I run up the stairs. My face is lopsided naturally and thanks to scars and aging, I have frown lines, I'm just generally not pretty-pretty at all. I detailed my brain-based methods for dealing with this.
I've found that's the only thing that works. A good haircut entails a bunch of stuff in my hair, and a bunch of things to do and ugh I just can't be fucked. I would much rather buzz it all off (which I did), dye the remnants blue (which I have) and get tattoos (which I also did). Embrace the you that you've let stagnate under the idea of 'pretty' and 'open' and 'healthy looking' and 'likeable'. Have you always wanted purple hair? Bleach that shit and dye it ($10 bleach kit from the supermarket + $20 Dare hairdye in whatever colour you want). You like drapey Japanese dress-shirt-tunic things? Wear the fuck out of them, who cares if they hide your shape.
Because, as alluded to above, the person who demands you conform to mainstream beauty standards will never ever be satisfied with the you underneath, right? My partner started life that way, thanks to something like actual indoctrination by his dad. He came around though, before he started dating me. He didn't date me because I can gussie myself up in retro vintage waist crushing, face glooping, hair singe-ing pseudo-prettiness, he dated me because I was smart and funny and weird and sometimes wore a suit with a tie and usually wore jeans and a t-shirt and rarely shaved and made faces at people who gave me shit for being hairy. We know couples where one, or both, have these weird beauty standards and as we've all aged and spread and changed, they're getting meaner and meaner to each other about gym time and diet and beauty maintenance. They get sad and angry about the havoc wreaked by pregnancy (both sides) and it's so so so tiresome.
Dating is harder when you're an outlier, and not submitting to beauty standards is being an outlier (I feel you on the makeup thing, I have my set down pat for interviews and fancy nights out but ugh it feels so ick and I don't like how my face looks even if it does look prettier). It's worth it in the long run though. Go out to get to know people, not pick up, and I think it'll probably work better.
I don't know if it'll make you feel better but I have a woman I play games with sometimes and I've only seen her like, once maybe? And she's got crazy fuzzy hair (we commiserate about it) and is soft and fat and I'm kind of working this crazy crush right now because god she's funny and witty and sarcastic as hell and has made her life her own after some serious bad shit and yeah.
posted by geek anachronism at 5:44 PM on February 7, 2016
(I've been reading these awesome other answers again and I want to be clear that by "self care" I didn't mean "lose weight and learn to style your hair like a proper lady." I only meant spending the time to get to know and love yourself and express yourself in ways you like and feel good. There's a whole amazing world out there that doesn't give a shit if you're thin or wearing makeup. Those ideas are so limiting and literally designed to make you feel bad about yourself.)
posted by jeweled accumulation at 7:17 PM on February 7, 2016
posted by jeweled accumulation at 7:17 PM on February 7, 2016
Absolutely do not feel like you have to adhere to mainstream beauty standards if it makes you resentful. However, there are many ways for you to enjoy and even joyfully indulge your body and appearance without the looks of a supermodel or a three hour beauty routine.
I suggest you adopt the Fuck It approach. Stylish clothes don't fit you right? Fuck it, wear whatever the hell you want. Wear a plaid shirt and a floral skirt and pink tights and man shoes. Have fun with it. Who cares if everyone else is wearing grey and beige. They'll probably be jealous of your panache when they see your amazing outfits. Hair doesn't fall into a thick, shiny, waist-length waterfall? Fuck it, shave it off, dye it blue, wear it in braids every single god damn day if you want. Play around with it until you find a style that's fun and makes you happy. Skin a bit splotchy? Fuck it, get a tattoo. Hell, get twenty of them. If the pure-skinned look askance at you, that's fine, they're free to do whatever they want with their own bodies. Maybe they're planning post-retirement careers in geriatric modeling and need pure skin? Probably not, but you never know, and other people's choices don't bother you, even if your choices bother them.
With the Fuck It approach, you can both acknowledge how oppressive it is that we live in a world with such rigid beauty norms, while also not feeling angry that you don't meet those impossible standards. You've transcended that bullshit. You might find that some day you even enjoy indulging in a few aspects of mainstream performative femininity. And that is totally okay too, because you are a human being and no one can expect you to always be one thing or always be another. Wherever you end up, the freedom you experience from not giving a shit what other people think will give you a confidence that many men will find totally hot.
posted by scantee at 8:18 PM on February 7, 2016
I suggest you adopt the Fuck It approach. Stylish clothes don't fit you right? Fuck it, wear whatever the hell you want. Wear a plaid shirt and a floral skirt and pink tights and man shoes. Have fun with it. Who cares if everyone else is wearing grey and beige. They'll probably be jealous of your panache when they see your amazing outfits. Hair doesn't fall into a thick, shiny, waist-length waterfall? Fuck it, shave it off, dye it blue, wear it in braids every single god damn day if you want. Play around with it until you find a style that's fun and makes you happy. Skin a bit splotchy? Fuck it, get a tattoo. Hell, get twenty of them. If the pure-skinned look askance at you, that's fine, they're free to do whatever they want with their own bodies. Maybe they're planning post-retirement careers in geriatric modeling and need pure skin? Probably not, but you never know, and other people's choices don't bother you, even if your choices bother them.
With the Fuck It approach, you can both acknowledge how oppressive it is that we live in a world with such rigid beauty norms, while also not feeling angry that you don't meet those impossible standards. You've transcended that bullshit. You might find that some day you even enjoy indulging in a few aspects of mainstream performative femininity. And that is totally okay too, because you are a human being and no one can expect you to always be one thing or always be another. Wherever you end up, the freedom you experience from not giving a shit what other people think will give you a confidence that many men will find totally hot.
posted by scantee at 8:18 PM on February 7, 2016
I feel you so very much, OP. So very much that I could have written this question in a lot of ways.
When I first started my current job (which is executive director of a small non-profit), a few lovely, well-meaning women gave me a makeover. It was a "this is how a female professional needs to be in order to be taken seriously" makeover. So I got new clothing, makeup tips, waxing, pedicures, etc. And I've kept this up because I want to be someone who inspires funder confidence. Some of these things I enjoy. Some of these things I really dislike and wish I could spend my money elsewhere. I call those my concessions to the patriarchy. All the concessions to the patriarchy did very little to help me dating-wise. So I look at all the "just use makeup and suddenly everything will be completely different" answers with side-eye. It may be true, but it's just as likely not true -- and also, that isn't the question that you're asking for help with, as bleep clearly pointed out in her excellent response.
I have not fully gotten over the resentment, but I've learned to manage it better and to do things to help with self-esteem. Here is what works for me:
1. Mindfulness. If I try very hard to be "I shall not be resentful because anger is ugly," I find myself only becoming more resentful. It's better to have the feelings and acknowledge them and let them live inside of you before moving on.
2. About a decade ago, my best friend started writing down every compliment she ever got into a notebook. A few years later, when I was in a bout of depression, I remembered this and I started doing it myself. It's really good for the self-esteem. If you're having a bad day, you can go back and see "oh wait -- E said that I always look put together" or "A said I have the best laugh." Since you are in a place of looking for the validation of others, this is a way to fill that need. It's also a good way to check in with how others' perception of you and your perception of yourself match. It's a place where self-care can live. (Also, as an added benefit, I can go back to revisit kind words from people who are no longer with me.) I don't probably get every compliment in the book, but I do get a lot, and it's a great way to get instant validation from others at a time when one needs instant validation from others.
3. Embracing that I'm clearly meant to be a spinster author, just like all my childhood heroes. I spent most of my adolescence wishing that I was Jane Austen or Louisa May Alcott. And the older I get, the more I realize that I am the spinster badass that I always daydreamed about being. I just don't have to wear a corset. This one is pretty specific to me, but think about how you are the person childhood you would have dreamed about being as an adult.
4. Pinpointing where a lot of the insecurity comes from. Yes, we're all bombarded with messages all the time of how we're inadequate as women. But I know that as soon as I realized where a lot of my personal feelings of inadequacy developed (namely playing every single boy role in the Shakespearean canon as a child and teenager because I was a tall, fat girl), I was able to also see how those circumstances shaped me for the whole of who I am, both good and bad.
I hope that can help a little and good luck.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 8:21 PM on February 7, 2016
When I first started my current job (which is executive director of a small non-profit), a few lovely, well-meaning women gave me a makeover. It was a "this is how a female professional needs to be in order to be taken seriously" makeover. So I got new clothing, makeup tips, waxing, pedicures, etc. And I've kept this up because I want to be someone who inspires funder confidence. Some of these things I enjoy. Some of these things I really dislike and wish I could spend my money elsewhere. I call those my concessions to the patriarchy. All the concessions to the patriarchy did very little to help me dating-wise. So I look at all the "just use makeup and suddenly everything will be completely different" answers with side-eye. It may be true, but it's just as likely not true -- and also, that isn't the question that you're asking for help with, as bleep clearly pointed out in her excellent response.
I have not fully gotten over the resentment, but I've learned to manage it better and to do things to help with self-esteem. Here is what works for me:
1. Mindfulness. If I try very hard to be "I shall not be resentful because anger is ugly," I find myself only becoming more resentful. It's better to have the feelings and acknowledge them and let them live inside of you before moving on.
2. About a decade ago, my best friend started writing down every compliment she ever got into a notebook. A few years later, when I was in a bout of depression, I remembered this and I started doing it myself. It's really good for the self-esteem. If you're having a bad day, you can go back and see "oh wait -- E said that I always look put together" or "A said I have the best laugh." Since you are in a place of looking for the validation of others, this is a way to fill that need. It's also a good way to check in with how others' perception of you and your perception of yourself match. It's a place where self-care can live. (Also, as an added benefit, I can go back to revisit kind words from people who are no longer with me.) I don't probably get every compliment in the book, but I do get a lot, and it's a great way to get instant validation from others at a time when one needs instant validation from others.
3. Embracing that I'm clearly meant to be a spinster author, just like all my childhood heroes. I spent most of my adolescence wishing that I was Jane Austen or Louisa May Alcott. And the older I get, the more I realize that I am the spinster badass that I always daydreamed about being. I just don't have to wear a corset. This one is pretty specific to me, but think about how you are the person childhood you would have dreamed about being as an adult.
4. Pinpointing where a lot of the insecurity comes from. Yes, we're all bombarded with messages all the time of how we're inadequate as women. But I know that as soon as I realized where a lot of my personal feelings of inadequacy developed (namely playing every single boy role in the Shakespearean canon as a child and teenager because I was a tall, fat girl), I was able to also see how those circumstances shaped me for the whole of who I am, both good and bad.
I hope that can help a little and good luck.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 8:21 PM on February 7, 2016
From the OP:
I just wanted to write a quick follow up. Thank you first to everyone who answered. Although reading through the answers, I also realized that maybe people weren’t quite reading the question that I was actually trying to ask.posted by restless_nomad at 8:32 PM on February 7, 2016
I know what being conventionally heterosexually attractive is supposed to look like—skinny, straight hair, clear skin, and more than that, I’m so aware of all the pressure that women who don’t tick off those boxes feel to conform to those standards.
And I guess my question was getting at (but not asking as clearly as I wanted to) that I’m so sick of feeling that pressure to obtain/achieve/create a body that seems so foreign and so not me. How do I reconcile this societal pressure while trying to date straight men and feeling like shit because I don’t measure up?
So the question was less about how to measure up to these societal standards and more about how to reconcile dating men (and consequently feels inadequate) when you feel like your body isn’t good enough. Thank you to those who responded and who got what I was trying (inarticulately) to say.
And you know, I was feeling pretty shitty dwelling in all of this over the weekend and I watched some awesome slam poetry. Although not specifically talking about bodies quite like mine, watching these women perform poems about their fat and their hair was pretty empowering.
I mean this in a kind way but I think you're your worst enemy because you feel you do not conform to whatever form of beauty you find desirable. Until you start to love yourself and exude some form of happiness, none of what you look for will come to you.
I'm a middle age, overweight gay man and I get hit on by pretty young things (men and women) all the time. And you know what? It boils down to being happy with yourself and feeling confident.
Also, as a woman with her own agency, you should be able to hit on men rather than wait for them to hit on you. And there's nothing wrong with men aged 50 of older 😉
posted by Kwadeng at 11:58 PM on February 7, 2016
I'm a middle age, overweight gay man and I get hit on by pretty young things (men and women) all the time. And you know what? It boils down to being happy with yourself and feeling confident.
Also, as a woman with her own agency, you should be able to hit on men rather than wait for them to hit on you. And there's nothing wrong with men aged 50 of older 😉
posted by Kwadeng at 11:58 PM on February 7, 2016
Part of my problem is that no matter how many boxes I check I'll never actually be conventionally attractive. I'm still always going to look like me.
But the other part of the problem is that most guys look like sacks of potatoes. If they would only do something with themselves. The only men that ever show interest in me are very conventionally unattractive; attractive men literally flinch from me and try to distance themselves, which tells me everything I need to know about how attractive I must be. And yet, my own problem is that I'm only attracted to relatively goodlooking men. I think there just simply isn't a match for me out there, because I'm asking for more than I can offer in return and as much as I would like to change my tastes, I don't seem able to.
I have to wonder, in these pickup bars, are your Barbie friends pairing off with Mr Potato Head types or are they pairing off with Ken dolls? Are these clubs mostly populated with Ken dolls, or what?
Basically are you mad in part because men either are or feel entitled to date very beautiful women without having to make any effort themselves, and so guys who are equivalent in appearance to you are completely overlooking you? Or are you also only looking only in places that are populated by very conventionally attractive men? If so, can you imagine being attracted to someone less goodlooking? Maybe you need to spend more time in nerd activity groups than hanging around the cast of Baywatch, is what I'm saying.
posted by tel3path at 3:00 AM on February 8, 2016
But the other part of the problem is that most guys look like sacks of potatoes. If they would only do something with themselves. The only men that ever show interest in me are very conventionally unattractive; attractive men literally flinch from me and try to distance themselves, which tells me everything I need to know about how attractive I must be. And yet, my own problem is that I'm only attracted to relatively goodlooking men. I think there just simply isn't a match for me out there, because I'm asking for more than I can offer in return and as much as I would like to change my tastes, I don't seem able to.
I have to wonder, in these pickup bars, are your Barbie friends pairing off with Mr Potato Head types or are they pairing off with Ken dolls? Are these clubs mostly populated with Ken dolls, or what?
Basically are you mad in part because men either are or feel entitled to date very beautiful women without having to make any effort themselves, and so guys who are equivalent in appearance to you are completely overlooking you? Or are you also only looking only in places that are populated by very conventionally attractive men? If so, can you imagine being attracted to someone less goodlooking? Maybe you need to spend more time in nerd activity groups than hanging around the cast of Baywatch, is what I'm saying.
posted by tel3path at 3:00 AM on February 8, 2016
I’m so sick of feeling that pressure to obtain/achieve/create a body that seems so foreign and so not me. How do I reconcile this societal pressure while trying to date straight men and feeling like shit because I don’t measure up?
OP, if you feel like you're not worth dating, it doesn't matter what you look like. By your standards, I should be swimming in a sea of men, and I'm not. I have also felt that societal pressure and it is foreign to me as well, even though I fit your definition of beauty ideal. Some men have expectations of who I am and what my personality is like because of the way I look. It's not fair, but understand it's a double edged sword. It's constricting and confining to me too. Because people expect me to look and act a certain way rather than getting to know me.
I have a friend I met online almost 10 years ago. He got to know my personality because we became friends without him knowing what I looked like. He still gets intimidated by his perception of my intelligence and acts differently when he sees me, rather than can only read or hear my voice.
My point is, framing this as realizing those men are doing you a favor by saving you time from being involved with someone superficial or shallow. The connection and the man you're looking for will see you for who you are. As long as you can see yourself in a loving, confident way and present yourself as such. However that's comfortable for you. Be your own kind of beautiful.
posted by lunastellasol at 3:59 AM on February 8, 2016
OP, if you feel like you're not worth dating, it doesn't matter what you look like. By your standards, I should be swimming in a sea of men, and I'm not. I have also felt that societal pressure and it is foreign to me as well, even though I fit your definition of beauty ideal. Some men have expectations of who I am and what my personality is like because of the way I look. It's not fair, but understand it's a double edged sword. It's constricting and confining to me too. Because people expect me to look and act a certain way rather than getting to know me.
I have a friend I met online almost 10 years ago. He got to know my personality because we became friends without him knowing what I looked like. He still gets intimidated by his perception of my intelligence and acts differently when he sees me, rather than can only read or hear my voice.
My point is, framing this as realizing those men are doing you a favor by saving you time from being involved with someone superficial or shallow. The connection and the man you're looking for will see you for who you are. As long as you can see yourself in a loving, confident way and present yourself as such. However that's comfortable for you. Be your own kind of beautiful.
posted by lunastellasol at 3:59 AM on February 8, 2016
And now I'm going to unpack what I just said. It's not comfortable reading, at least not to me, because I seem to be expressing my worst self in there.
Here's what bothers me about all this: I don't have to tell you about the endless cultural pressure on women to conform to standards of beauty. At the same time, there is also pressure to do so without vanity, without superficiality and with minimum effort, though I think that side of it is on the wane right now in our culture, but I also remember the early 90s when it was the polar opposite: Julia Roberts claiming in interviews not to know what shampoo she used "hotel shampoo"? and her friend replied "what hotel?" This might seem like she was above it all, but seeming like you were above it all was *completely conformant* to the highest beauty ideal at that time and I expect the pendulum will swing back.
Somewhat orthogonal to the idea that not caring about beauty is an essential part of the ideal beauty standard is that one should be able to not feel the pressure or pain of it all, and while some commenters here have probably been successful at that, some of us are still hurting or confused.
Meanwhile, how all this ties into dating prospects has not changed. I think I was the first one to mention the relative appearance of the men you're encountering and by doing so, not only did I uphold superficial beauty ideals but I also expressed a concern that women are not and have never been supposed to have. There is a reason why there's a fairy tale called "Beauty and the Beast" but no fairy tale called "Plain Jane and the Hunk". Not only is it not spiritual for women to care about their own conventional beauty (you must BE conventionally beautiful, but you MUST NOT care about it), caring about a man's appearance or saying you only want to date relatively attractive men is just not something we say. And there I said it.
Now to tell you this anecdote I'm going to have to take society's beauty standards at face value. But every man that has approached me has said "looks aren't important" while pointing to themselves. And I had more than one guy friend like this but let me roll him into a composite: wore the same worn-out clothes to work literally every day, including a navy polo shirt that he occasionally put on inside out without realizing it. Scornful of the very idea of self-presentation. Had a crush on the de facto local beauty queen and long-term resentment that she didn't return his feelings. Ranted about some magazine column entitled "is she really going out with him?" which mocked celebrity couples that included attractive women and plain looking men (and he was quite right in not liking that column, but that's not what I'm talking about). And yet, he had quite a number of average looking female friends who it never seemed to occur to him could be dating prospects at all. It's not that he was turning them down, it just never crossed his mind. Meanwhile he was spending his time with a massive chip on his shoulder about how awful it was to expect men to look a certain way.
Dude should've tried being a woman.
Anyway, so I know this is not a nice thing to ask you but I do think it's worth checking whether, given that you have a low opinion of your own appearance, you are nonetheless only seeking out the company of ostensibly attractive men and either overlooking more average types or just not going to where they're at. Maybe there are a lot of average looking men at those clubs though, and they're still going for your Barbie friends, in which case I can certainly empathize with you, since that is the unfair standard of our culture and it's really a lot like being the target in an inept knife-throwing act where you have to keep smiling regardless.
posted by tel3path at 4:07 AM on February 8, 2016
Here's what bothers me about all this: I don't have to tell you about the endless cultural pressure on women to conform to standards of beauty. At the same time, there is also pressure to do so without vanity, without superficiality and with minimum effort, though I think that side of it is on the wane right now in our culture, but I also remember the early 90s when it was the polar opposite: Julia Roberts claiming in interviews not to know what shampoo she used "hotel shampoo"? and her friend replied "what hotel?" This might seem like she was above it all, but seeming like you were above it all was *completely conformant* to the highest beauty ideal at that time and I expect the pendulum will swing back.
Somewhat orthogonal to the idea that not caring about beauty is an essential part of the ideal beauty standard is that one should be able to not feel the pressure or pain of it all, and while some commenters here have probably been successful at that, some of us are still hurting or confused.
Meanwhile, how all this ties into dating prospects has not changed. I think I was the first one to mention the relative appearance of the men you're encountering and by doing so, not only did I uphold superficial beauty ideals but I also expressed a concern that women are not and have never been supposed to have. There is a reason why there's a fairy tale called "Beauty and the Beast" but no fairy tale called "Plain Jane and the Hunk". Not only is it not spiritual for women to care about their own conventional beauty (you must BE conventionally beautiful, but you MUST NOT care about it), caring about a man's appearance or saying you only want to date relatively attractive men is just not something we say. And there I said it.
Now to tell you this anecdote I'm going to have to take society's beauty standards at face value. But every man that has approached me has said "looks aren't important" while pointing to themselves. And I had more than one guy friend like this but let me roll him into a composite: wore the same worn-out clothes to work literally every day, including a navy polo shirt that he occasionally put on inside out without realizing it. Scornful of the very idea of self-presentation. Had a crush on the de facto local beauty queen and long-term resentment that she didn't return his feelings. Ranted about some magazine column entitled "is she really going out with him?" which mocked celebrity couples that included attractive women and plain looking men (and he was quite right in not liking that column, but that's not what I'm talking about). And yet, he had quite a number of average looking female friends who it never seemed to occur to him could be dating prospects at all. It's not that he was turning them down, it just never crossed his mind. Meanwhile he was spending his time with a massive chip on his shoulder about how awful it was to expect men to look a certain way.
Dude should've tried being a woman.
Anyway, so I know this is not a nice thing to ask you but I do think it's worth checking whether, given that you have a low opinion of your own appearance, you are nonetheless only seeking out the company of ostensibly attractive men and either overlooking more average types or just not going to where they're at. Maybe there are a lot of average looking men at those clubs though, and they're still going for your Barbie friends, in which case I can certainly empathize with you, since that is the unfair standard of our culture and it's really a lot like being the target in an inept knife-throwing act where you have to keep smiling regardless.
posted by tel3path at 4:07 AM on February 8, 2016
Ahh, yeah, the dating thing. Anecdotally speaking, my longest couple of relationships started when I was at my heaviest (and unambiguously fat) and not actually looking for a relationship. I know it's a cliché, and not a particularly reassuring one, that you find the right person when you stop looking. However, when you're just sort of hanging out and enjoying life and too wrapped up in stuff that interests you to worry about your presentation, it's incredibly attractive. And it's the best kind of attractiveness: it draws in people who like you for your authentic self, and it's not something you have to have to work at maintaining.
I think for just about everyone (except maybe total assholes, which you are not) there are people - not just "the one," but a decent chunk of potential partners - who will make you feel sincerely beautiful, and who don't feel like someone you have to settle for. Hanging around clubs and other venues that deal in shallow attraction won't get you to those people. They usually don't do it for the skinny blonde women with pedicures and perfect teeth, either, but those women generally have to learn that through trial and error.
I've often considered my plainness a blessing, because people who've shown interest in me were more likely to be interested in me, and because someone who accepts my droopy, pudgy, wrinkly features in my twenties and thirties is someone who's not going to bail when I "let myself go" (i.e. age naturally).
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:08 AM on February 8, 2016
I think for just about everyone (except maybe total assholes, which you are not) there are people - not just "the one," but a decent chunk of potential partners - who will make you feel sincerely beautiful, and who don't feel like someone you have to settle for. Hanging around clubs and other venues that deal in shallow attraction won't get you to those people. They usually don't do it for the skinny blonde women with pedicures and perfect teeth, either, but those women generally have to learn that through trial and error.
I've often considered my plainness a blessing, because people who've shown interest in me were more likely to be interested in me, and because someone who accepts my droopy, pudgy, wrinkly features in my twenties and thirties is someone who's not going to bail when I "let myself go" (i.e. age naturally).
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:08 AM on February 8, 2016
This is all so fucking complicated.
I'm five feet tall, and I'm not a skinny girl - I'm curvy and soft. I don't even know if I'm fat anymore, I can't tell, I get so much fucking weird conflicting feedback on that. But I know that I'm strong. I row twice a week and I lift, and I am STRONG. I found this stuff by finding the right people, which is admittedly hard sometimes. I have no idea where you are located but if you are in Atlanta, by all means hit me up, I've got suggestions.
Find a way to learn to love your body. Get a good hair cut (again, if you're in the ATL, I will send you to a wizard), find exercise that you LIKE. I mean, I can run but I hate it. I feel like a god when I'm rowing. Do you want to wear makeup? Get a good consultation. It took me a while to understand the power that I can take when I decide to wear makeup and put on heels, but now I love it. Yes, it's the Patriarchy, but you know what? Fuck them. I'm taking it back. I get to decide. And if I can use their tools to decimate some dudes and leave them in my dust, great. Let's get to it.
Get out away from the bar scene. Find the weirdos. Look for burlesque and performance artists and nerds in comic book clubs if that is your thing. Trust me, there is a fandom for everything. EVERYTHING. The world is so much wider and weirder than skinny white girls with good skin, I promise you.
posted by Medieval Maven at 9:06 AM on February 8, 2016
I'm five feet tall, and I'm not a skinny girl - I'm curvy and soft. I don't even know if I'm fat anymore, I can't tell, I get so much fucking weird conflicting feedback on that. But I know that I'm strong. I row twice a week and I lift, and I am STRONG. I found this stuff by finding the right people, which is admittedly hard sometimes. I have no idea where you are located but if you are in Atlanta, by all means hit me up, I've got suggestions.
Find a way to learn to love your body. Get a good hair cut (again, if you're in the ATL, I will send you to a wizard), find exercise that you LIKE. I mean, I can run but I hate it. I feel like a god when I'm rowing. Do you want to wear makeup? Get a good consultation. It took me a while to understand the power that I can take when I decide to wear makeup and put on heels, but now I love it. Yes, it's the Patriarchy, but you know what? Fuck them. I'm taking it back. I get to decide. And if I can use their tools to decimate some dudes and leave them in my dust, great. Let's get to it.
Get out away from the bar scene. Find the weirdos. Look for burlesque and performance artists and nerds in comic book clubs if that is your thing. Trust me, there is a fandom for everything. EVERYTHING. The world is so much wider and weirder than skinny white girls with good skin, I promise you.
posted by Medieval Maven at 9:06 AM on February 8, 2016
I think the reason so many of these comments are focusing on things to do with appearance are because our culture lacks any other language for "female self-care." Notice how so much of "self-care" is actually for others--making yourself more presentable/acceptable to others so that YOU feel better. Harrumph.
But to my mind, real self-care is ultimately the thing that will get you out of the shitty mindspace that we so often land in, where we know the standards are bullshit but knowing is only half the battle and we still feel like prisoners of the bullshit.
You're on the way there with running and meditation -- things that make your heart and mind strong and resilient and flexible. Think of other things that do this. Sleep. Good nourishing food. Not low-cal or lo-carb or any of that. Food that tastes good to you, that your body likes eating. Maybe preparing it yourself, doing recipes that challenge you. Things that get you out of body-as-object mode and into body-as-vehicle, body-as-friend, body-as-self mode. How do you feel best. What do you do that leaves you energized, rested, tingling, clear of mind, strong, well? Work toward that always, and you will have no time to compare your exterior to a societal benchmark, because you'll be much too occupied with comparing your interior to your OWN benchmarks.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:40 AM on February 8, 2016
But to my mind, real self-care is ultimately the thing that will get you out of the shitty mindspace that we so often land in, where we know the standards are bullshit but knowing is only half the battle and we still feel like prisoners of the bullshit.
You're on the way there with running and meditation -- things that make your heart and mind strong and resilient and flexible. Think of other things that do this. Sleep. Good nourishing food. Not low-cal or lo-carb or any of that. Food that tastes good to you, that your body likes eating. Maybe preparing it yourself, doing recipes that challenge you. Things that get you out of body-as-object mode and into body-as-vehicle, body-as-friend, body-as-self mode. How do you feel best. What do you do that leaves you energized, rested, tingling, clear of mind, strong, well? Work toward that always, and you will have no time to compare your exterior to a societal benchmark, because you'll be much too occupied with comparing your interior to your OWN benchmarks.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:40 AM on February 8, 2016
Oh, right, the "while dating-straight-men" thing.
OK. So. Dating straight men is hard. And I say this as someone who probably resembles you moreso than not, but who has had a number of serious relationships with straight men and is in one now.
It is hard to be conscious and female and feminist and date straight men. It is hard to do this even when you are an extremely physically standard-issue attractive female. You are finding it hard because of your appearance but only partly. You would be finding it hard regardless because you're a woman under patriarchy and as such it is all hard. You will find that when you do get into a relationship with a straight man that too will be its own kind of hard. (And you will. I mean, for real, part of your problem is that people in their 20s are just shitty all around and they do eventually get better.)
I realize this doesn't sound very encouraging. But it's always best to know the actual battle you're fighting. And while my advice above doesn't necessarily make the dating thing any faster or easier or get any more instant results, it does have the benefit of weeding out assholes and folks who will otherwise waste your time.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:53 AM on February 8, 2016
OK. So. Dating straight men is hard. And I say this as someone who probably resembles you moreso than not, but who has had a number of serious relationships with straight men and is in one now.
It is hard to be conscious and female and feminist and date straight men. It is hard to do this even when you are an extremely physically standard-issue attractive female. You are finding it hard because of your appearance but only partly. You would be finding it hard regardless because you're a woman under patriarchy and as such it is all hard. You will find that when you do get into a relationship with a straight man that too will be its own kind of hard. (And you will. I mean, for real, part of your problem is that people in their 20s are just shitty all around and they do eventually get better.)
I realize this doesn't sound very encouraging. But it's always best to know the actual battle you're fighting. And while my advice above doesn't necessarily make the dating thing any faster or easier or get any more instant results, it does have the benefit of weeding out assholes and folks who will otherwise waste your time.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:53 AM on February 8, 2016
Finally: anyone who says anger isn't attractive apparently never met Angela Davis. Or Lindy West. Hell, one of my boyfriend's favorite things is watching me unleash some righteous fury on shitty, sexist ad messaging or people who don't understand how democracy works. We bonded over our anger at the injustices and absurdities around us.
Underneath your resentment is an anger that is real and valid. And if you give it its proper space and voice, it will be powerful and attractive as hell to exactly the kind of people who don't give a shit about hair frizz. So maybe throw some feminist reading into your self-care program and learn how to make your anger into a friend and a tool for change.
Caveat: Abusive, self-destructive anger isn't attractive to healthy people, and will in fact attract other troublesome folks. But I'm not talking about that.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:02 AM on February 8, 2016
Underneath your resentment is an anger that is real and valid. And if you give it its proper space and voice, it will be powerful and attractive as hell to exactly the kind of people who don't give a shit about hair frizz. So maybe throw some feminist reading into your self-care program and learn how to make your anger into a friend and a tool for change.
Caveat: Abusive, self-destructive anger isn't attractive to healthy people, and will in fact attract other troublesome folks. But I'm not talking about that.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:02 AM on February 8, 2016
I think the reason so many of these comments are focusing on things to do with appearance are because our culture lacks any other language for "female self-care." Notice how so much of "self-care" is actually for others--making yourself more presentable/acceptable to others so that YOU feel better. Harrumph.
I just wanted to comment on this. When I say, get a good hair cut, I left out "if your hair is bothering you." Like, you don't like your hair? Make it likable FOR YOU. if that means cutting it super short, or getting a perm, or shaving your head, go for it. But do that for you, so that you're not thinking about it anymore. Same for skin care. If your skin is bothering you, then for yourself, figure out what you want to do. But don't do it for anyone's approval. If you decide your skin being blotchy isn't bothersome to you personally, then by all means, don't do anything. But Feminism does not require you to not want to have even skin. And wanting even skin or whatvever you think of as "good hair" doesn't make you a bad feminist, or even some kind of person that you don't want to be.
If your hair doesn't bother you, then by all means, cultivate a fuck-off attitude about it and move on to whatever you do want to do.
Exercise, for YOU. Because you only have one body and taking care of it makes you feel better physically. If it happens to make you more attractive to men, great, fine, whatever, but that is not the primary purpose.
The key to being not-angry about this stuff, in other words, is finding an internal motivation to make yourself feel better - whatever that means for you personally -- and doing it. But as long as you're solely focused on external shit, you are going to be unhappy. That's what I think anyway.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:45 AM on February 8, 2016
I just wanted to comment on this. When I say, get a good hair cut, I left out "if your hair is bothering you." Like, you don't like your hair? Make it likable FOR YOU. if that means cutting it super short, or getting a perm, or shaving your head, go for it. But do that for you, so that you're not thinking about it anymore. Same for skin care. If your skin is bothering you, then for yourself, figure out what you want to do. But don't do it for anyone's approval. If you decide your skin being blotchy isn't bothersome to you personally, then by all means, don't do anything. But Feminism does not require you to not want to have even skin. And wanting even skin or whatvever you think of as "good hair" doesn't make you a bad feminist, or even some kind of person that you don't want to be.
If your hair doesn't bother you, then by all means, cultivate a fuck-off attitude about it and move on to whatever you do want to do.
Exercise, for YOU. Because you only have one body and taking care of it makes you feel better physically. If it happens to make you more attractive to men, great, fine, whatever, but that is not the primary purpose.
The key to being not-angry about this stuff, in other words, is finding an internal motivation to make yourself feel better - whatever that means for you personally -- and doing it. But as long as you're solely focused on external shit, you are going to be unhappy. That's what I think anyway.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:45 AM on February 8, 2016
I think people say the same things to young men who wonder why they can't get a date. Get a better haircut, try to clear up your skin, lose weight. It's very standard advice.
The other option is to get lucky or lower your physical standards. Those potato-sack men in bars are looking for a freebie. They want to find a woman hotter than them because 1) she's hot and 2) for the status. If you're never going to be a status object, distance yourself from that culture, because it will only make you unhappy. (I doubt it makes very many people who are actually successful at it all that happy.)
I don't know, I met my boyfriend when I had an awkward grown out short haircut, didn't wear any makeup, wore owl-y glasses, and dressed exactly however I wanted. We just happened to have a lot in common. We met over academic pursuits. Definitely not in a bar.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:33 PM on February 8, 2016
The other option is to get lucky or lower your physical standards. Those potato-sack men in bars are looking for a freebie. They want to find a woman hotter than them because 1) she's hot and 2) for the status. If you're never going to be a status object, distance yourself from that culture, because it will only make you unhappy. (I doubt it makes very many people who are actually successful at it all that happy.)
I don't know, I met my boyfriend when I had an awkward grown out short haircut, didn't wear any makeup, wore owl-y glasses, and dressed exactly however I wanted. We just happened to have a lot in common. We met over academic pursuits. Definitely not in a bar.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:33 PM on February 8, 2016
I also think that the female self-care thing is not entirely without basis. Buying nice lotion, giving yourself a facial, taking a bubble bath, etc. are all nice things that destress and make you physically feel better. Those things make me feel more positive about my body. I never thought I'd be the kind of woman who bought a bunch of lotions and aromatherapy shit but here I am. It's nice to have things that are just pleasant and about your body without being about how your body looks.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:36 PM on February 8, 2016
posted by stoneandstar at 1:36 PM on February 8, 2016
How do I reconcile this societal pressure while trying to date straight men and feeling like shit because I don’t measure up?
Okay, so I have been on both ends of the female beauty spectrum: I have been both so conventionally beautiful that men walked into things while looking at me, and so conventionally unattractive that I went through not one, but two soul-killing dry spells that lasted 3 and 5 years, respectively. I hear you. Oh god, I hear you. I have been there.
What helped me was sitting down and asking myself exactly what kind of guy I wanted to be with, and whether or not the kind of man I wanted was really the kind of guy who considered looks to be the most important quality in a woman. (Short answer: hell, no.) Then I looked at the qualities I'd written down that I wanted, and they were things like, 'Must be kind. Must be honest. Must have a sense of humor.' Looks and income and other societal markers of masculine success weren't on there. So it stood to reason that if I wasn't buying into all that crap, there surely would be men out there who likewise didn't buy into it, either.
Then I made a list of all the beauty-standard-things-you're-supposed-to-do, and then went back and asked myself to what degree I was willing to conform to them, independent of a man, or not. Like, if I were stranded on a desert island, which of those things would I still do? Okay, great: I'll do those. Bathing and washing my hair? Totally. Shaving my legs, pits and nether regions? Nah. Giving myself a pedicure? Sure, it feels good. Exercising? Good for my mood, so yes. Making the list was important because I was actively choosing which part of the standards I was going to live up to, and which I was going to feel free to ignore. Remember, no beauty product ad, ever, will tell you: 'You're totally okay, just as you are.' Rather, the message is: 'You're broken! But if you buy our stuff, that'll fix it.' You are not born broken.
Deliberately making those two lists made it so much easier for me to stop myself when I started feeling inadequate about my looks, because then I could remind myself that wait, I didn't actually WANT to look like that or do those things to make myself look like that anyway, and I definitely didn't want the men who wanted me to be those things, either. Sure, if I were willing to get plastic surgery or starve myself, or spend hours a day on my presentation, I could land that kind of guy. But eventually I'd revert back to my hippie self who hates shaving and loves to eat half a cow at a sitting, and who the hell wants to spend all that time shaving and passing up ribs? No dude was worth it for me. That's Part One.
Now the hard bit: Part Two, aka the Holy Grail — how to find straight guys that don't buy into all that crap and are actually looking for women just like you. (I know, I know, they're right next to the unicorns, chimeras, and other mythical beasts.) Make a list of all your awesome qualities, and things you love to do, that have absolutely nothing to do with how you look. Then find situations that'll let you display your awesome qualities, and events where other people are also doing the things you love to do. For me, those things were art and weightlifting; YMMV. Go do those things, because 1-they're awesome, and 2-you'll be happy and confident doing them, and happy and confident is attractive as hell. Keep doing those things, and be open to the men you meet while you're doing them. A lot of the men you meet will be taken, or not into you. That's cool; they're just showing you that they're not for you, and that's okay.
While you do those things, go look for role models to remind yourself that people who aren't conventionally cookie-cutter beautiful can also be devastatingly attractive. One of the best compliments I ever got in my life was that I was like the female version of Alan Rickman: not conventionally beautiful, but striking, with an amazing sexy voice. There was an immense freedom in admitting, 'Okay, I will never again be 19 years old and so pretty it makes your teeth hurt,' and replacing it with, 'I am motherfucking Alan Rickman! Who doesn't want Alan Rickman!'
Eventually, you will find the straight guy who has been looking for someone exactly like you. It might take a minute, but it'll happen. Stop feeling like shit because you don't measure up to someone else's arbitrary standards, and set your own standards to live up to, that YOU choose.
posted by culfinglin at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2016
Okay, so I have been on both ends of the female beauty spectrum: I have been both so conventionally beautiful that men walked into things while looking at me, and so conventionally unattractive that I went through not one, but two soul-killing dry spells that lasted 3 and 5 years, respectively. I hear you. Oh god, I hear you. I have been there.
What helped me was sitting down and asking myself exactly what kind of guy I wanted to be with, and whether or not the kind of man I wanted was really the kind of guy who considered looks to be the most important quality in a woman. (Short answer: hell, no.) Then I looked at the qualities I'd written down that I wanted, and they were things like, 'Must be kind. Must be honest. Must have a sense of humor.' Looks and income and other societal markers of masculine success weren't on there. So it stood to reason that if I wasn't buying into all that crap, there surely would be men out there who likewise didn't buy into it, either.
Then I made a list of all the beauty-standard-things-you're-supposed-to-do, and then went back and asked myself to what degree I was willing to conform to them, independent of a man, or not. Like, if I were stranded on a desert island, which of those things would I still do? Okay, great: I'll do those. Bathing and washing my hair? Totally. Shaving my legs, pits and nether regions? Nah. Giving myself a pedicure? Sure, it feels good. Exercising? Good for my mood, so yes. Making the list was important because I was actively choosing which part of the standards I was going to live up to, and which I was going to feel free to ignore. Remember, no beauty product ad, ever, will tell you: 'You're totally okay, just as you are.' Rather, the message is: 'You're broken! But if you buy our stuff, that'll fix it.' You are not born broken.
Deliberately making those two lists made it so much easier for me to stop myself when I started feeling inadequate about my looks, because then I could remind myself that wait, I didn't actually WANT to look like that or do those things to make myself look like that anyway, and I definitely didn't want the men who wanted me to be those things, either. Sure, if I were willing to get plastic surgery or starve myself, or spend hours a day on my presentation, I could land that kind of guy. But eventually I'd revert back to my hippie self who hates shaving and loves to eat half a cow at a sitting, and who the hell wants to spend all that time shaving and passing up ribs? No dude was worth it for me. That's Part One.
Now the hard bit: Part Two, aka the Holy Grail — how to find straight guys that don't buy into all that crap and are actually looking for women just like you. (I know, I know, they're right next to the unicorns, chimeras, and other mythical beasts.) Make a list of all your awesome qualities, and things you love to do, that have absolutely nothing to do with how you look. Then find situations that'll let you display your awesome qualities, and events where other people are also doing the things you love to do. For me, those things were art and weightlifting; YMMV. Go do those things, because 1-they're awesome, and 2-you'll be happy and confident doing them, and happy and confident is attractive as hell. Keep doing those things, and be open to the men you meet while you're doing them. A lot of the men you meet will be taken, or not into you. That's cool; they're just showing you that they're not for you, and that's okay.
While you do those things, go look for role models to remind yourself that people who aren't conventionally cookie-cutter beautiful can also be devastatingly attractive. One of the best compliments I ever got in my life was that I was like the female version of Alan Rickman: not conventionally beautiful, but striking, with an amazing sexy voice. There was an immense freedom in admitting, 'Okay, I will never again be 19 years old and so pretty it makes your teeth hurt,' and replacing it with, 'I am motherfucking Alan Rickman! Who doesn't want Alan Rickman!'
Eventually, you will find the straight guy who has been looking for someone exactly like you. It might take a minute, but it'll happen. Stop feeling like shit because you don't measure up to someone else's arbitrary standards, and set your own standards to live up to, that YOU choose.
posted by culfinglin at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2016
Can you imagine a version of you that believes that her body didn't matter? A version that has her own network or is a millionaire or is the most-liked person you know or who spends all her time fighting for a cause. Try to be more like her.
posted by kinoeye at 10:15 PM on February 8, 2016
posted by kinoeye at 10:15 PM on February 8, 2016
I haven't read all the answers to this yet (and this is super late) but I am the person who wrote the post that you referenced.
Honestly in the year since I've wrote that things have improved a lot on that front. I did not change my appearance, nor did I accept it.
I just don't think about it much anymore. At first this had to be a conscious decision. I had to cut out certain acquaintances, stop reading beauty websites and eliminate other types of media, actively redirect my thoughts when they landed there. I read a lot of feminist literature pertaining to looks and really pondered what the value of being pretty is (as far as I'm concerned, there isn't much). But working on it worked out. I have certain triggers (being around women complaining about their looks etc. is definitely one) and I do what I can to eliminate them, but I find recovery time is a lot shorter. I don't feel resentful of pretty women at all anymore. Being a woman in most societies isn't that great, and so much emphasis on our looks in general isn't good for anyone regardless of how they look. It takes some work, but looking at why looks are so extra important for women, and how fundamentally disgusting that is regardless of how people try to downplay it, has really helped me feel better about my own looks and internalise that it does not matter, and it's good for me to feel that way. This is not our fault and it doesn't have to be our problem.
That said, dating isn't a concern for me right now. I think on that front, it'll help forming friendships and relationships with men in real life. You don't want someone who largely values you for your looks, no matter what people say about men are visual*~. That is hard to reconcile with the format of online dating, but your looks do not exclude you from a long-term, healthy relationship.
posted by hejrat at 5:50 PM on February 16, 2016
Honestly in the year since I've wrote that things have improved a lot on that front. I did not change my appearance, nor did I accept it.
I just don't think about it much anymore. At first this had to be a conscious decision. I had to cut out certain acquaintances, stop reading beauty websites and eliminate other types of media, actively redirect my thoughts when they landed there. I read a lot of feminist literature pertaining to looks and really pondered what the value of being pretty is (as far as I'm concerned, there isn't much). But working on it worked out. I have certain triggers (being around women complaining about their looks etc. is definitely one) and I do what I can to eliminate them, but I find recovery time is a lot shorter. I don't feel resentful of pretty women at all anymore. Being a woman in most societies isn't that great, and so much emphasis on our looks in general isn't good for anyone regardless of how they look. It takes some work, but looking at why looks are so extra important for women, and how fundamentally disgusting that is regardless of how people try to downplay it, has really helped me feel better about my own looks and internalise that it does not matter, and it's good for me to feel that way. This is not our fault and it doesn't have to be our problem.
That said, dating isn't a concern for me right now. I think on that front, it'll help forming friendships and relationships with men in real life. You don't want someone who largely values you for your looks, no matter what people say about men are visual*~. That is hard to reconcile with the format of online dating, but your looks do not exclude you from a long-term, healthy relationship.
posted by hejrat at 5:50 PM on February 16, 2016
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posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:07 AM on February 7, 2016