Landlord changing locks and invading privacy
February 3, 2016 5:30 AM Subscribe
Our new landlord is changing the locks to the building. They sent out a notice that the locks will be changed soon. They're not just handing out the new key.
In order to receive a key, I'm required to meet with a representative, with a signed form naming each inhabitant of the apartment, and photo ID for each adult.
Ostensibly, this is because the new keys are expensive, and I'm signing the fact that if I lose it, I'll be required to pay for a replacement.
However, I'm quite certain this is a tactic to learn more about any possible lease violations (too many people in the apartment, etc) to lead to evictions and raised rents.
I'm actually completely legal etc, but I'm really not interested in providing any info to this new landlord (the old landlord did not require any ID).
Is this legal? What are my options?
This is in Brooklyn, NY.
In order to receive a key, I'm required to meet with a representative, with a signed form naming each inhabitant of the apartment, and photo ID for each adult.
Ostensibly, this is because the new keys are expensive, and I'm signing the fact that if I lose it, I'll be required to pay for a replacement.
However, I'm quite certain this is a tactic to learn more about any possible lease violations (too many people in the apartment, etc) to lead to evictions and raised rents.
I'm actually completely legal etc, but I'm really not interested in providing any info to this new landlord (the old landlord did not require any ID).
Is this legal? What are my options?
This is in Brooklyn, NY.
Here's a link to the Tenants Rights Guide.
I will say that this seems really fair. If your building is rent controlled the landlord has a right to confirm that the people in the unit are there legally.
Call the Tenant's Rights Hotline at 212-979-0611 to ask questions and to get the skinny on your particular situation. This is the webpage.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:39 AM on February 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
I will say that this seems really fair. If your building is rent controlled the landlord has a right to confirm that the people in the unit are there legally.
Call the Tenant's Rights Hotline at 212-979-0611 to ask questions and to get the skinny on your particular situation. This is the webpage.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:39 AM on February 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
Beagle, I may be misreading that link, but it looks like it explicitly says that asking for a photo ID is legal, as long as it's required of all tenants in the building across the board and they don't reject any forms of valid ID.
That seems to suggest that this is entirely legal, but only a lawyer can tell you for sure. +1 for calling the tennant's rights hotline.
posted by Itaxpica at 6:05 AM on February 3, 2016
That seems to suggest that this is entirely legal, but only a lawyer can tell you for sure. +1 for calling the tennant's rights hotline.
posted by Itaxpica at 6:05 AM on February 3, 2016
Oh god they get worse every day. My landlord changed the locks and required a photo ID to get new locks so now half the people in my building don't have a key to the front door. I researched and got the locks, providing my ID (not for the other people who live in my apartment...) but I think its a grey area and its not quite settled law. Are they the key fob keys - like electronic? Those are worth about $0.25, but they are probably claiming they are expensive. They are also probably illegal because some religious people can't use them on some days. I can't imagine that it is legal for them to require a photo ID of all of the people who are living in your apartment, or staying there for whatever amount of time. If the tenants rights people don't know or won't tell you you might be able to call Collins, Dobbin, Miller - they are reputable tenants rights attorneys. It's just one more step in the landlord harassment game.
posted by goneill at 7:13 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by goneill at 7:13 AM on February 3, 2016
. They are also probably illegal because some religious people can't use them on some days.
It is not illegal to have an apartment that some people are unable to live in, even if it is a protected attribute being blocked - there are apartments being built every day that are wheelchair inaccessible, for instance.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:14 AM on February 3, 2016
It is not illegal to have an apartment that some people are unable to live in, even if it is a protected attribute being blocked - there are apartments being built every day that are wheelchair inaccessible, for instance.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:14 AM on February 3, 2016
The cost to the tenant for replacement keys is meant to encourage people to be frugal with their uncopyable keys. It's not supposed to reflect the actual cost of the key. Keys getting copied and loaned out and given freely to friends and SOs are a major risk to building security, especially since friends and SOs don't always remain friendly for the duration of the lease.
I'm on my condo board; since we're condos, each owner is responsible for keying their own door, but the board controls the building locks and keys. We use a Medeco system, which is a big, difficult-to-copy metal key with some features designed to be a giant pain in the ass for lock-pickers.
Each owner gets 2 medeco keys, and additional keys are $100. The cost is to keep people from giving away keys, leaving them in lots of different places, stashing them with friends. One resident's friends are another resident's security risk. Actual cost of the keys to us is about $20. The "profit" is used to offset the cost of occasional re-keying (I forget how much, but it's several thousand bucks every 10 years, or more often if there's reason to suspect a lot of keys have gotten out, or criminals are known to be keying into the building).
This ID-for-keys scheme sounds like a way to initiate a higher security system like Medeco, and at the same time, trying to audit who lives in the building. It's possible the building is experiencing a lot of unpermitted subletting or, very likely, some undesirable AirBNB action.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:31 AM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm on my condo board; since we're condos, each owner is responsible for keying their own door, but the board controls the building locks and keys. We use a Medeco system, which is a big, difficult-to-copy metal key with some features designed to be a giant pain in the ass for lock-pickers.
Each owner gets 2 medeco keys, and additional keys are $100. The cost is to keep people from giving away keys, leaving them in lots of different places, stashing them with friends. One resident's friends are another resident's security risk. Actual cost of the keys to us is about $20. The "profit" is used to offset the cost of occasional re-keying (I forget how much, but it's several thousand bucks every 10 years, or more often if there's reason to suspect a lot of keys have gotten out, or criminals are known to be keying into the building).
This ID-for-keys scheme sounds like a way to initiate a higher security system like Medeco, and at the same time, trying to audit who lives in the building. It's possible the building is experiencing a lot of unpermitted subletting or, very likely, some undesirable AirBNB action.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:31 AM on February 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
the agents of KAOS - just because you say something in a declaratory voice doesn't make it true. Here's an article.... Maybe they will rule against these people eventually, but Cooper Union settled a case with similarly situated plaintiffs, and there are other pending cases in New York.
I totally hear you condo owner, and congrats to you on owning your own property and having some agency over what happens - I'm sure the people who live in your building with you do want it to be more secure and that is great! That is not at all what is happening in my building, and I suspect not what is happening in mhz's building. It isn't more secure to have a door propped open all the time because people don't have a key to their own home. We didn't have a problem with security before, but now there are little old ladies waiting outside the apartment to get in all the time. Everyone has to let everyone in basically because so few people have keys to their own front doors. The landlord is trying to track people to evict them, and is trying to make living in the building unbearable so they can flip rent-stabilized units to maket rate.
posted by goneill at 11:11 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I totally hear you condo owner, and congrats to you on owning your own property and having some agency over what happens - I'm sure the people who live in your building with you do want it to be more secure and that is great! That is not at all what is happening in my building, and I suspect not what is happening in mhz's building. It isn't more secure to have a door propped open all the time because people don't have a key to their own home. We didn't have a problem with security before, but now there are little old ladies waiting outside the apartment to get in all the time. Everyone has to let everyone in basically because so few people have keys to their own front doors. The landlord is trying to track people to evict them, and is trying to make living in the building unbearable so they can flip rent-stabilized units to maket rate.
posted by goneill at 11:11 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm on the condo board, but I rent a unit. It's weird, but it's allowed. I got locked out of the building because the last time they re-keyed, the key was sent to my landlord (the condo owner) who had just left for 2 weeks in Europe. I had to tailgate friendly neighbors until I could get a loaner key from the property manager. I'm sympathetic, but I also know that I've got a right to be there as a paying renter with a legit lease, and yeah, I'm a person who doesn't have so many legal complications in my life that I can't or won't present picture ID.
And as I found out, it's a pain in the ass if you have to take time off work to meet the manager's schedule for getting ahold of a key to which you are entitled. I went through it twice on that occasion, once to borrow a key and another to get the new key from the landlord. I'm sure it'd've been worse if I didn't have vacation to burn on this enterprise.
> The landlord is trying to track people to evict them, and is trying to make living in the building unbearable so they can flip rent-stabilized units to market rate.
A single re-keying is pretty far from making the building unbearable, especially since it has an obvious beneficial purpose. Do you suppose the landlord should hand keys out to anyone who asks, thereby nullifying any security benefit and rendering the whole rekeying expense worthless?
posted by Sunburnt at 11:37 AM on February 3, 2016
And as I found out, it's a pain in the ass if you have to take time off work to meet the manager's schedule for getting ahold of a key to which you are entitled. I went through it twice on that occasion, once to borrow a key and another to get the new key from the landlord. I'm sure it'd've been worse if I didn't have vacation to burn on this enterprise.
> The landlord is trying to track people to evict them, and is trying to make living in the building unbearable so they can flip rent-stabilized units to market rate.
A single re-keying is pretty far from making the building unbearable, especially since it has an obvious beneficial purpose. Do you suppose the landlord should hand keys out to anyone who asks, thereby nullifying any security benefit and rendering the whole rekeying expense worthless?
posted by Sunburnt at 11:37 AM on February 3, 2016
How did you come to live there in the first place? Did you apply (likely with ID or, at the very least, some personal info), name the occupants, and sign a lease in order to get the very first set of keys that let you enter the building and your unit? Why is providing personal info and signing something different than providing personal info and signing something?
posted by good lorneing at 6:26 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by good lorneing at 6:26 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
.the agents of KAOS - just because you say something in a declaratory voice doesn't make it true.
We definitely agree there, and I imagine we also agree that just because something is legal doesn't mean you can do it without any trouble.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:28 PM on February 3, 2016
We definitely agree there, and I imagine we also agree that just because something is legal doesn't mean you can do it without any trouble.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:28 PM on February 3, 2016
Response by poster: Did not have a chance to call, but I'll add a bit to clarify:
This building is not rent controlled. About half of the 34 units are rent stabilized.
There are no Air BnBs or similar. It's a small enough building that a) we mostly talk and b) we'd recognize unusal faces.
The locks are new, the previous owner changed the locks within the last year.
The rent stabilized apartments predate the previous owner as well. The previous owner did not require me, or anyone else that I'm aware of, to provide ID when signing a lease.
I have excellent reason to believe that this is all part of an attempt to evict as many rent stabilized renters as possible and move the apartment to market rates. All new leases since the new ownership have been with huge price hikes.
There has some been subtle harassment, and thus my entire mindset has been to simply find a new place by the time my lease is up. I want to know if what they're doing is legal - they manage to slip an envelope with a rent invoice under my door every month, and the super was able to hand out keys the last time the door was rekeyed. Can a landlord essentially lock me out of my building unless I arrange to meet a representative from his office and hand over documents that were not part of my lease. I hope the good people at the tenant's hotline know.
posted by mhz at 6:49 PM on February 3, 2016
This building is not rent controlled. About half of the 34 units are rent stabilized.
There are no Air BnBs or similar. It's a small enough building that a) we mostly talk and b) we'd recognize unusal faces.
The locks are new, the previous owner changed the locks within the last year.
The rent stabilized apartments predate the previous owner as well. The previous owner did not require me, or anyone else that I'm aware of, to provide ID when signing a lease.
I have excellent reason to believe that this is all part of an attempt to evict as many rent stabilized renters as possible and move the apartment to market rates. All new leases since the new ownership have been with huge price hikes.
There has some been subtle harassment, and thus my entire mindset has been to simply find a new place by the time my lease is up. I want to know if what they're doing is legal - they manage to slip an envelope with a rent invoice under my door every month, and the super was able to hand out keys the last time the door was rekeyed. Can a landlord essentially lock me out of my building unless I arrange to meet a representative from his office and hand over documents that were not part of my lease. I hope the good people at the tenant's hotline know.
posted by mhz at 6:49 PM on February 3, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by beagle at 5:38 AM on February 3, 2016