Kidneys failed in dog
January 30, 2016 8:10 PM Subscribe
I need a sanity check regarding making the right decision for our 12 year old dog who is diagnosed with kidney failure yesterday.
Our 12 year old dog, a german sheppherd, was diagnosed with kidney failure (both) yesterday. He had lost the use of his back legs which is why he was taken to the vet who administered pain killers. That has resulted in a failure of both kidneys. He cannot pass urine and is now passing blood. The vet wanted to put him down but we want to make sure he gets a fighting chance if that is an option.
We are at our wits end and trying to figure out what the future looks like for him. Is it the right decision to put him down based on the present condition? We are trying to figure out what exactly the future will be (if there is a future) for him now. Want to make the right decision but we want to make sure that we are not overlooking options.
Our 12 year old dog, a german sheppherd, was diagnosed with kidney failure (both) yesterday. He had lost the use of his back legs which is why he was taken to the vet who administered pain killers. That has resulted in a failure of both kidneys. He cannot pass urine and is now passing blood. The vet wanted to put him down but we want to make sure he gets a fighting chance if that is an option.
We are at our wits end and trying to figure out what the future looks like for him. Is it the right decision to put him down based on the present condition? We are trying to figure out what exactly the future will be (if there is a future) for him now. Want to make the right decision but we want to make sure that we are not overlooking options.
You could get a second opinion, but kidney failure is kidney failure.
But I will say as someone who spent far too much on a dying dog, no one ever says it was too early to put a dog down. All of the money and time I spent on my dog's medical care only kept my dog in a not-super-happy at best state for far too long. Don't do this to your dog.
posted by k8t at 8:33 PM on January 30, 2016 [40 favorites]
But I will say as someone who spent far too much on a dying dog, no one ever says it was too early to put a dog down. All of the money and time I spent on my dog's medical care only kept my dog in a not-super-happy at best state for far too long. Don't do this to your dog.
posted by k8t at 8:33 PM on January 30, 2016 [40 favorites]
>Is it the right decision to put him down based on the present condition?
In the last few years I've formed some new rules about when it's time to euthanize an animal, and one of them involves them being able to get up from a lying down position. When they can't do that reliably anymore, it's time.
Passing blood looks like severe kidney damage, and you're not going to get new kidneys for your old dog. 12 years is the right ballpark for a full German Shepherd life: there's not likely to be a lot of reserve in your old dog to recover, no matter how heroic her medical intervention might be.
If she was my dog I'd put her down.
posted by the Real Dan at 8:39 PM on January 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
In the last few years I've formed some new rules about when it's time to euthanize an animal, and one of them involves them being able to get up from a lying down position. When they can't do that reliably anymore, it's time.
Passing blood looks like severe kidney damage, and you're not going to get new kidneys for your old dog. 12 years is the right ballpark for a full German Shepherd life: there's not likely to be a lot of reserve in your old dog to recover, no matter how heroic her medical intervention might be.
If she was my dog I'd put her down.
posted by the Real Dan at 8:39 PM on January 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
One of the most wonderful gifts we can give to our pets is a dignified end with as little suffering as possible. I know it is an incredibly difficult and painful thing to have to go through, and my heart goes out to you. IANYV, but I think it sounds like it might be time to let go.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 8:41 PM on January 30, 2016 [30 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 8:41 PM on January 30, 2016 [30 favorites]
I'm so very sorry you're going through this.
I think it might be time. When I had a very sick pet, I delayed taking him in to be put down because I simply wasn't sure, and it's one of my biggest regrets. My last memories of him were of me frantically trying to get him to live.
They can't talk, so they can't tell you just how they're feeling. For what it's worth, I am a human being in the early stages of kidney failure, and when your kidneys are sick enough to pass blood, it HURTS.
Talk to your vet. Your vet will help you make sure you give your dog the best life possible, knowing that having the best life means granting a peaceful and pain-free end when it is time.
posted by mochapickle at 8:44 PM on January 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think it might be time. When I had a very sick pet, I delayed taking him in to be put down because I simply wasn't sure, and it's one of my biggest regrets. My last memories of him were of me frantically trying to get him to live.
They can't talk, so they can't tell you just how they're feeling. For what it's worth, I am a human being in the early stages of kidney failure, and when your kidneys are sick enough to pass blood, it HURTS.
Talk to your vet. Your vet will help you make sure you give your dog the best life possible, knowing that having the best life means granting a peaceful and pain-free end when it is time.
posted by mochapickle at 8:44 PM on January 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ask your vet: what would they do if it was their dog? I suspect you know the answer.
posted by suelac at 8:50 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by suelac at 8:50 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am an extremely strong believer in "better a day too early than a day too late" when it comes to animals who are suffering, and based on your description, it very much sounds like time to me. I'm so sorry.
posted by anderjen at 8:58 PM on January 30, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by anderjen at 8:58 PM on January 30, 2016 [15 favorites]
Your vet is telling you its time to let go. So far, metafilter is telling you its time to let go. Grief will pass.
posted by Jacen at 9:11 PM on January 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 9:11 PM on January 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
We've been through this twice in the past two years. The first time was a day too late. The second time (last month) was done at just the right time. After 19 years (!) we miss her so much but it was the right thing to do.
We paid to have it done by a vet visiting our home. It really was a good thing.
posted by intermod at 9:14 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
We paid to have it done by a vet visiting our home. It really was a good thing.
posted by intermod at 9:14 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Coming in to thank you for being such an amazing dog person. So many pets aren't as lucky to have someone like you to help them navigate these hard times. If you feel like this is the end for happiness and a fulfilling life, that's ok. I've been in your shoes and it is hard.... But we have to make the choice sometimes... I commend you. You are doing the best for your pet and your family.... And it will all be ok. Blessings for you, whatever path you take. Your dog is so lucky to have you.
posted by pearlybob at 9:38 PM on January 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by pearlybob at 9:38 PM on January 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
The implicit bargain we make with dogs is that in exchange for their years of loyalty and love, we'll ease their suffering when then the time comes. It's hard. We went through it last year with our 12 year old dog when his hips failed and he was in undeniable pain. You want to bargain for extra time, but is that the fair thing?
posted by dws at 10:08 PM on January 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by dws at 10:08 PM on January 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am so sorry. My experience is that vets are often extremely reluctant to suggest putting an animal to sleep unless they feel it is inevitable the animal's quality of life will take a steep decline even with excellent care. A 12 year-old GSD is at the tail end of its life no matter what; you are lucky the end has come so quickly and surely.
I know it feels impossible now, but I think that you will not regret following the vet's guidance, and extending your friend's suffering, which he cannot possibly understand the way a human would.
posted by charmedimsure at 10:15 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I know it feels impossible now, but I think that you will not regret following the vet's guidance, and extending your friend's suffering, which he cannot possibly understand the way a human would.
posted by charmedimsure at 10:15 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
This sounds a bit like your dog is just near the end of his life. He's at the top end of the normal lifespan for a German Shepard. In addition, he can't walk, he can't pee, he has no working kidneys and he is bleeding internally. Could you do something, like dialysis or something else, to address some of the problems? Possibly, but would the dog not be suffering even then? Is there an extended period of time left in his life where he will be comfortable?
I'm very sorry about your dog. It's hard to see an animal you love suffer, but it's just as hard to consider saying goodbye.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:46 PM on January 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm very sorry about your dog. It's hard to see an animal you love suffer, but it's just as hard to consider saying goodbye.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:46 PM on January 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am so, so, sorry for you. I've gone through this with two cats now, and it's heartbreaking. But if he can't stand up....it's time.
I have a GSD myself, adopted from a shelter, who is only 9 months old and already has moderate hip dysplasia, and problems with the rest of his joints to the point that surgery is never going to be a real option to fix him. My vet has told me that I have 4 or 5 years with him at the most. I know that towards the end I will be asking myself these same questions. Don't feel bad that you love your dog enough to hope. But don't let your hope make him suffer.
Your dog is lucky to have you, and you gave him the very best life he could have had. Be glad of that, and let your pup go. The hardest part of having a dog is saying goodbye.
posted by ananci at 12:24 AM on January 31, 2016
I have a GSD myself, adopted from a shelter, who is only 9 months old and already has moderate hip dysplasia, and problems with the rest of his joints to the point that surgery is never going to be a real option to fix him. My vet has told me that I have 4 or 5 years with him at the most. I know that towards the end I will be asking myself these same questions. Don't feel bad that you love your dog enough to hope. But don't let your hope make him suffer.
Your dog is lucky to have you, and you gave him the very best life he could have had. Be glad of that, and let your pup go. The hardest part of having a dog is saying goodbye.
posted by ananci at 12:24 AM on January 31, 2016
I think you should listen to your vet. If your vet thought there was some way to save your pup, I'm sure he'd be putting that option out there. But your vet is suggesting euthanasia.
My cat was dying of kidney failure, and putting him down was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. But I take some consolation in knowing that he suffered from the disease for a relatively brief time. He was suffering and he wasn't going to get better, and he could die quickly and painlessly or he could die more slowly and probably suffer a lot doing it.
It's an awful thing, and I'm really sorry you're going through this. But it sounds like the most loving thing you could do for him now would be to end his pain.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:03 AM on January 31, 2016
My cat was dying of kidney failure, and putting him down was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. But I take some consolation in knowing that he suffered from the disease for a relatively brief time. He was suffering and he wasn't going to get better, and he could die quickly and painlessly or he could die more slowly and probably suffer a lot doing it.
It's an awful thing, and I'm really sorry you're going through this. But it sounds like the most loving thing you could do for him now would be to end his pain.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:03 AM on January 31, 2016
My aunt is an extreme right-to-lifer and had an old cat with kidney failure on dialysis. The cat was obviously miserable and felt terrible... Listen to your vet.
Dialysis is really the only thing to be done for kidney failure, and it sucks big time even for people who can choose it, understand what's happening, ask for painkillers, etc. My grandfather was in his 80s and on dialysis at the same time as the cat, and he only did it in the name of science (his doctor had never had anyone that old and otherwise healthy on it, so they agreed he's do it and see how long it helped... I was only ten at the time, but I don't think it was much longer than six months or so).
posted by jrobin276 at 1:31 AM on January 31, 2016
Dialysis is really the only thing to be done for kidney failure, and it sucks big time even for people who can choose it, understand what's happening, ask for painkillers, etc. My grandfather was in his 80s and on dialysis at the same time as the cat, and he only did it in the name of science (his doctor had never had anyone that old and otherwise healthy on it, so they agreed he's do it and see how long it helped... I was only ten at the time, but I don't think it was much longer than six months or so).
posted by jrobin276 at 1:31 AM on January 31, 2016
Want to make the right decision but we want to make sure that we are not overlooking options.
Yeah, it is possible to get dialysis (and other kinds of blood filtering) for a dog, but there aren't that many vet centers that are able to do it. I don't know where you are, but here is the informational page about pet hemodialysis from a veterinary hospital that I trust. The University of Pennsylvania's vet school's website also has a useful page about it.
Kidney transplants are also possible, but facilities that do them are even rarer, and at your dog's age, he may not be a good candidate. Here's a bit more information about that from the UC Davis vet school. From my cursory googling, it doesn't look like the outcomes for canine kidney transplants are very good.
And of course, your pup was having serious problems before the kidney failure-- the loss of back leg function and the related pain. Given those, and given his age, I'm not sure I'd want to go this route myself. I'd worry that I was prolonging the bad times instead of helping him have more happy ones.
I'm so, so sorry this is happening. I've been through it too (though not with a kidney thing) and it's the absolute worst. Love and peace to all of you.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 2:08 AM on January 31, 2016
Yeah, it is possible to get dialysis (and other kinds of blood filtering) for a dog, but there aren't that many vet centers that are able to do it. I don't know where you are, but here is the informational page about pet hemodialysis from a veterinary hospital that I trust. The University of Pennsylvania's vet school's website also has a useful page about it.
Kidney transplants are also possible, but facilities that do them are even rarer, and at your dog's age, he may not be a good candidate. Here's a bit more information about that from the UC Davis vet school. From my cursory googling, it doesn't look like the outcomes for canine kidney transplants are very good.
And of course, your pup was having serious problems before the kidney failure-- the loss of back leg function and the related pain. Given those, and given his age, I'm not sure I'd want to go this route myself. I'd worry that I was prolonging the bad times instead of helping him have more happy ones.
I'm so, so sorry this is happening. I've been through it too (though not with a kidney thing) and it's the absolute worst. Love and peace to all of you.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 2:08 AM on January 31, 2016
I had to euthanize my kitty yesterday after about two years of hard-core treatment for kidney failure. She went into violent seizures last night, during which she couldn't breathe. We got her to the vet aas fast as we could, but she still suffered greatly in the hour and a half-two hours during which she was having violent seizures.
I am so glad of the time I had with my kitty after she was diagnosed with kidney failure. Believing what I believed then (that if we just kept her going, she'd die a peaceful death in her sleep) we acted responsibly; however, if I had known that the last hours of her life were going to be as horrific as they were, I would have put her down a year ago.
That being said, I would have felt horribly guilty if I had put her down before yesterday, but I think, as animal lovers, that's just the price we pay.
You're in my thoughts.
posted by angrycat at 2:55 AM on January 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am so glad of the time I had with my kitty after she was diagnosed with kidney failure. Believing what I believed then (that if we just kept her going, she'd die a peaceful death in her sleep) we acted responsibly; however, if I had known that the last hours of her life were going to be as horrific as they were, I would have put her down a year ago.
That being said, I would have felt horribly guilty if I had put her down before yesterday, but I think, as animal lovers, that's just the price we pay.
You're in my thoughts.
posted by angrycat at 2:55 AM on January 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
(as an aside, the vet thought that my kitty probably had a brain tumor, which may or may not have been related to lymphoma, which iirc is linked to the steroid use for IBD, which is another thing my cat had. so i don't mean to imply that your dog will suffer seizures. i was just thinking in terms of when it is time to say goodbye and how to make that decision)
posted by angrycat at 2:59 AM on January 31, 2016
posted by angrycat at 2:59 AM on January 31, 2016
Yes. Put the dog down. He is 12; he is at the end of his natural lifespan. Dogs do not experience or understand time the way we do, and will not value the extra time. That time is for you, not for him.
I am an animal lover and volunteer huge amounts of my time for dog rescue and fostering, and I am so glad compassionate euthanasia is available. I firmly believe this is the last, best thing we can do for the companions who depend on us utterly for their well-being and happiness.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:55 AM on January 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am an animal lover and volunteer huge amounts of my time for dog rescue and fostering, and I am so glad compassionate euthanasia is available. I firmly believe this is the last, best thing we can do for the companions who depend on us utterly for their well-being and happiness.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:55 AM on January 31, 2016 [3 favorites]
There are a lot of very good treatments for kidney failure these days, but once an animal is no longer producing urine, that's bad, but it also depends on the reason for it, some causes of anuria are treatable, but time is very much of the essence.
I manage an animal hospital, but I am NOT a veterinarian (and this is not medical advice, yadda yadda). Many veterinarians don't seem to know just how much can be reasonably done for renal failure today, but in your dog's case, you have two very big issues going on: A large dog who is paraplegic for a seemingly undiagnosed reason (some causes of which are treatable, some aren't); who also seemingly has no kidney function whatsoever. Seeking a second opinion from an internal medicine specialist or at least a veterinarian with a well-developed renal failure protocol might help you with your decision, and might well be worth the money spent for your peace of mind.
I am sorry you and your dog are going through this.
posted by biscotti at 5:06 AM on January 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
I manage an animal hospital, but I am NOT a veterinarian (and this is not medical advice, yadda yadda). Many veterinarians don't seem to know just how much can be reasonably done for renal failure today, but in your dog's case, you have two very big issues going on: A large dog who is paraplegic for a seemingly undiagnosed reason (some causes of which are treatable, some aren't); who also seemingly has no kidney function whatsoever. Seeking a second opinion from an internal medicine specialist or at least a veterinarian with a well-developed renal failure protocol might help you with your decision, and might well be worth the money spent for your peace of mind.
I am sorry you and your dog are going through this.
posted by biscotti at 5:06 AM on January 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you.
This #*&* hurts like hell. We took the decision yesterday and he is no more. I thought to myself, if I had a family human who had both failed kidneys and was old and there was no future for him, and if it was legal, and if thid decision was the option, would we have made this decision? Answer was yes. I wanted to make sure this family member also had the same right.
Thank you all.
posted by stepup at 9:22 AM on January 31, 2016 [6 favorites]
This #*&* hurts like hell. We took the decision yesterday and he is no more. I thought to myself, if I had a family human who had both failed kidneys and was old and there was no future for him, and if it was legal, and if thid decision was the option, would we have made this decision? Answer was yes. I wanted to make sure this family member also had the same right.
Thank you all.
posted by stepup at 9:22 AM on January 31, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hugs. Nothing is harder than this but you did the right thing.
posted by bearwife at 11:47 AM on January 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 11:47 AM on January 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry, but I do think you did the right thing.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:33 PM on January 31, 2016
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:33 PM on January 31, 2016
Kudos to you for doing this. It is never easy.
I hope that will help to be able to look back and know that your dog had the best that you could do for him.
Hugs.
posted by SLC Mom at 2:56 PM on January 31, 2016
I hope that will help to be able to look back and know that your dog had the best that you could do for him.
Hugs.
posted by SLC Mom at 2:56 PM on January 31, 2016
I'm so sorry, but you gave him this final kindness, and you did it out of love.
posted by SillyShepherd at 4:25 PM on January 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by SillyShepherd at 4:25 PM on January 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
You did the right thing. It still hurts, and probably will for a while. It took us months to finally put our dog's bowl away. There may be moments, possibly when you find a tuft of fur in a closet, that brings back memories. I hope they're good ones.
posted by dws at 6:42 PM on January 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dws at 6:42 PM on January 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think you did the right thing. You really loved your dog, and you made an excruciating choice for his sake. I hope you will find comfort and be at peace with this.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:43 AM on February 1, 2016
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:43 AM on February 1, 2016
I am so sorry for your loss. Like the others, I think you did the right thing. It's the hardest thing, too. Be gentle with yourself.
posted by kimberussell at 11:09 AM on February 1, 2016
posted by kimberussell at 11:09 AM on February 1, 2016
Response by poster: Thank you all for your very kind words. Yes you are right it will take sometime. When my family came back from cremating him, his spot at home was empty and that hit hard. So we made this little space there in his memory with his pic. This gesture helped us, maybe it will help others too. :(. Thank you all again.
posted by stepup at 4:02 PM on February 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by stepup at 4:02 PM on February 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
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We went through something similar with our kitty a few weeks ago, who had a very aggressive cancer, and had lost the use of her hind legs and her bladder. We ultimately decided to let her be at peace, because it was only going to get worse, and while she had a very small amount of neurological damage, we didn't want her to be in any pain.
Talk to your vet, but ultimately, decide what is best for your pet on your own. We got to a point where our girl could not be left alone in our home, because she couldn't eat or go to the bathroom, and there was nothing we could do about her worsening condition. It may have been "too early" by some scales, but our vets reassured us that we were not making any wrong decision, and that our kitty friend knew how loved she was.
I wish you a good decision.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]