Dogs that go Yap in the night
January 29, 2016 1:20 PM Subscribe
Our 7 year old dachshund-beagle mix has decided that her nightly crate sleep should be interrupted by a half-hour of whining and complaining and scratching to get out of her crate. Last night this occurred at midnight, then again at 4:30 AM. This has been a nightly thing for the past two weeks or so.
On the rare occasion we've given in and let her out, she's been content to fall asleep on our bed or bedroom carpet, without apparent need to pee, or drink water, or the usual issues. We've tried having her crate in the bedroom with us, instead of its usual place in the en-suite bathroom, but she acts the same. The bathroom with her crate has radiant floor heating, and tends to be more moderate than our bedroom, so climate control isn't likely the issue.
Her complaints are desultory, a whine, a yip, or a bark for attention, followed by a pause to see how we're reacting. Mostly we ignore her, but occasionally shout "No", "Quiet" or "settle" from the bedroom. Repeat in 15-20 seconds. After 30 minutes of keeping us up, she gets quiet, presumably back asleep.
Her daily routine has been consistent, her food consumption as usual, there hasn't been any dramatic change in her day-to-day life style or activity. In the morning when she's finally let out of her crate, she behaves perfectly normally.
She does have an anxiety around thunderstorms and rain, but there's been no bad weather at all.
Help me, hive mind! What's likely causing this new behavior, and should we give in and let her sleep on the bed, or hold firm and try (somehow?) to train her out of this new, bad habit?
On the rare occasion we've given in and let her out, she's been content to fall asleep on our bed or bedroom carpet, without apparent need to pee, or drink water, or the usual issues. We've tried having her crate in the bedroom with us, instead of its usual place in the en-suite bathroom, but she acts the same. The bathroom with her crate has radiant floor heating, and tends to be more moderate than our bedroom, so climate control isn't likely the issue.
Her complaints are desultory, a whine, a yip, or a bark for attention, followed by a pause to see how we're reacting. Mostly we ignore her, but occasionally shout "No", "Quiet" or "settle" from the bedroom. Repeat in 15-20 seconds. After 30 minutes of keeping us up, she gets quiet, presumably back asleep.
Her daily routine has been consistent, her food consumption as usual, there hasn't been any dramatic change in her day-to-day life style or activity. In the morning when she's finally let out of her crate, she behaves perfectly normally.
She does have an anxiety around thunderstorms and rain, but there's been no bad weather at all.
Help me, hive mind! What's likely causing this new behavior, and should we give in and let her sleep on the bed, or hold firm and try (somehow?) to train her out of this new, bad habit?
I've ruined my cat Eartha. She wakes up in the morning, and meows relentlessly until I get up and feed the cats. Wake up time is 7:00 AM, but she pushes it. At 6:00 am she might take it into her head to start up with the meowing, so I try to say in bed pretending I don't hear her. Then I tell her, "Hush! Not yet!" Then she gets more insistent. Then I cave and feed her. Even if I feed her at 7:00 her meowing has worked. I can't win.
By rewarding her with attention infrequently, sometimes I just put up with it, sometimes, I get agitated, sometimes I give in...the inconsistency of my reaction has trained her to do this, and now it's just a part of my life.
This was my bad. Inconsistency is the hobgoblin of discipline.
So, I'd move the crate where you can't be bothered until she knocks that shit off.
Don't be me.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:38 PM on January 29, 2016
By rewarding her with attention infrequently, sometimes I just put up with it, sometimes, I get agitated, sometimes I give in...the inconsistency of my reaction has trained her to do this, and now it's just a part of my life.
This was my bad. Inconsistency is the hobgoblin of discipline.
So, I'd move the crate where you can't be bothered until she knocks that shit off.
Don't be me.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:38 PM on January 29, 2016
Best answer: Is there a reason why she's closed into the crate at night? If she's not eliminating in the house or tearing things up, I'd leave the crate door open and let her decide where she wants to sleep. She may want to spend some time in the crate and then move to be closer to her pack (you) at some point. If you don't want her on the bed, maybe put a blanket or pillow for her next to the bed.
My dogs have always preferred to sleep near me. Unlike cats, they've never decided to wake me for food, attention, etc. They only wake me if they have some kind of digestive upset and need to go outside.
posted by quince at 1:54 PM on January 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
My dogs have always preferred to sleep near me. Unlike cats, they've never decided to wake me for food, attention, etc. They only wake me if they have some kind of digestive upset and need to go outside.
posted by quince at 1:54 PM on January 29, 2016 [22 favorites]
I have a puppy, and we joke that we occasionally need to "reboot" him -- take him for a long walk before bed -- so he doesn't display this behavior.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:08 PM on January 29, 2016
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:08 PM on January 29, 2016
Best answer: I have had dachshund most of my life, including one 15 year beagle - dachshund mix in the house right now. I've never had a dachshund that liked being crated. I think it's at least partly the breed.
posted by COD at 2:18 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by COD at 2:18 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dogs age like humans do and 7 isn't too young to start developing arthritis or changes in her sleep patterns. We have an 8 year old poodle/bichon who needs less and less night time sleep as the years go on - she currently wakes up around 4 AM -- if I'm by myself I ignore her & put in earplugs, and she'll putter around the bedroom for 15-30 minutes then comes back to bed. (We have 2 dogs who sleep on the bed with us.) Usually though, my husband is there and will just wake up for the day with her. Our vet said it's just a thing some dogs do, like a lot of people who sleep shorter nights when they become older. Your dog may also be developing some arthritis -- laying in one spot for a long time can make it act up, particularly if like most people you turn down the heat at night, the cold could agitate joint pain if she's becoming a little stiff & arthritic. But really, each dog is different & there's no way to know what your pup's motivation is but it would be a good idea to take her in for a vet checkup to rule out any other issues. Or it could even be something like a neighbor dog getting put outside at night, which she can hear with her supersonic dog ears.
posted by cuddles.mcsnuggy at 2:22 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cuddles.mcsnuggy at 2:22 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Have you tried just giving her a dog bed in the bedroom? I get that Americans are all about the crates, but dogs are pack animals. You're the dog's pack. She's aging, there is probably no need to crate her these days.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:36 PM on January 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:36 PM on January 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I'll second some of the others who are asking why the crate is still in the picture, given that she doesn't seem to have issues going to the bathroom or destroying things in the night. I do a lot of work fostering and rehoming animals, including a number who have been abandoned by people who get frustrated with behavior issues, and I'm consistently surprised by how many of these behavior issues sound, generally, like "fussy about the crate routine." Crating is a perennially controversial issue, among veterinarians and ethologists just like the general public, so it's hard to have these discussions, but there's not much controversy behind the notion that if you don't feel compelled to crate in response to some specific problem behavior it's totally fine to stop crating (or, as others suggest, leave the crate door open).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:55 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:55 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Nthing those others. She doesn't like being confined in her crate, and she isn't destructive, so why on earth are you keeping her stuck in there?
posted by tangerine at 2:58 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by tangerine at 2:58 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: How much light comes in through your windows? Can you get blackout curtains? I used to have a basset hound (another noisy breed) that would wake up during the night until I got blackout curtains. I think the streetlight outside our apartment was confusing him.
Also, I don't think that a completely house trained dog needs to be crated at night. That is the entire point of house training. They might choose to sleep in the crate because it is "their spot" but the door should be open at night after they are housebroken.
posted by Ariadne at 3:29 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, I don't think that a completely house trained dog needs to be crated at night. That is the entire point of house training. They might choose to sleep in the crate because it is "their spot" but the door should be open at night after they are housebroken.
posted by Ariadne at 3:29 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Why not continue to crate her as usual, but leave the crate door open, so she can choose to sleep in the familiar situation or come sleep in the bedroom? That's what I've done with my older dog, her crate is in the bedroom as it's been her whole life (she's a horrible, restless bed sleeper so she's unfortunately not allowed in our bed), but the door is removed and she's free to toddle out to the living room to sleep by the stove if she wants. As it happens she mostly prefers the crate but it's entirely her choice.
posted by HotToddy at 3:33 PM on January 29, 2016
posted by HotToddy at 3:33 PM on January 29, 2016
Sudden behavior changes in pets always warrant trips to the vet. Your dog's issue may not be medical, but you should see a vet to rule out such concerns before deciding to just re-train her.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 4:11 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by schroedingersgirl at 4:11 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Also not getting why your dog needs to be crated all night if there's no destruction or accidents. Is she crated during the day too? We have a normal day job schedule. Our dogs' favorite part of the day is bedtime, when they snuggle up to sleep with the pack (aka us) because they've barely seen us all day.
Your dog desperately wants to be near you. They're pack critters.
posted by gnutron at 4:45 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Your dog desperately wants to be near you. They're pack critters.
posted by gnutron at 4:45 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Aside from the crate issue, if this is new, a trip to the vet is in order. Senility or general mental confusion could be a factor. My dog, while older, suffered from confusion at night. She would often come to me, multiple times a night, for assurance. It got worse as she got older, but we did find a good med combo to help her through the night.
posted by Vaike at 5:37 PM on January 29, 2016
posted by Vaike at 5:37 PM on January 29, 2016
Best answer: Man.
So when I got a wiener dog, I heard that crate training was the right, humane thing to do. So I dutifully got a crate and put him in there to sleep every night.
Got him on a Sunday. Every single night he cried and howled. All night long.
The following Friday in the middle of this my girlfriend just said, "Bill, you're killing the dog."
And he's slept in the bed ever since.
These dogs are persistent. They get what they want, you hear? There's nothing you can do about it. If something is important to you, and you and the dog disagree about it, you will be fighting a long term war in which you must give no quarter. That's the only way to win.
Good luck. I can't imagine how cute and charming and funny and problematic your dog must be. What a funny mix!
posted by billjings at 9:23 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
So when I got a wiener dog, I heard that crate training was the right, humane thing to do. So I dutifully got a crate and put him in there to sleep every night.
Got him on a Sunday. Every single night he cried and howled. All night long.
The following Friday in the middle of this my girlfriend just said, "Bill, you're killing the dog."
And he's slept in the bed ever since.
These dogs are persistent. They get what they want, you hear? There's nothing you can do about it. If something is important to you, and you and the dog disagree about it, you will be fighting a long term war in which you must give no quarter. That's the only way to win.
Good luck. I can't imagine how cute and charming and funny and problematic your dog must be. What a funny mix!
posted by billjings at 9:23 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah, these people talking about the vet might be right, too. And I don't think I told you anything useful that you didn't know. But I did get to talk about wiener dogs, which I think is a success.
posted by billjings at 9:25 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by billjings at 9:25 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: First of all, by occasionally giving in, you've rewarded her behavior. So she has successfully trained you to let her out of the crate. Good humans!
Our completely house trained basset lab mix sleeps with us for a few hours every night but then she and the cat conspire to commit chaos like clearing off table tops of their knicknacks. So into the crate she goes (and the cat into the basement), like clockwork every night. It's the only way we can sleep, but both of them are two and we hope they'll grow out of the crazies as they age.
I say this because like others above I believe dogs should be uncrated at night and free to sleep where they want. I believe they should only be confined if there's some behavioral issue at night that can only be managed (not trained away, because you're sleeping then, not training) by confinement.
Does your dog have a behavioral issue that requires confinement at night? If yes, then maybe now that she's older and dog arthritis is a thing, you could confine her to a whole bedroom rather than the crate. Then she'd have more options for sleeping positions.
If there's no reason to crate her at night other than "this is the way we've always done it" then I urge you to reconsider the paradigm. See what happens if you just... don't crate her one night.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 4:02 AM on January 30, 2016
Our completely house trained basset lab mix sleeps with us for a few hours every night but then she and the cat conspire to commit chaos like clearing off table tops of their knicknacks. So into the crate she goes (and the cat into the basement), like clockwork every night. It's the only way we can sleep, but both of them are two and we hope they'll grow out of the crazies as they age.
I say this because like others above I believe dogs should be uncrated at night and free to sleep where they want. I believe they should only be confined if there's some behavioral issue at night that can only be managed (not trained away, because you're sleeping then, not training) by confinement.
Does your dog have a behavioral issue that requires confinement at night? If yes, then maybe now that she's older and dog arthritis is a thing, you could confine her to a whole bedroom rather than the crate. Then she'd have more options for sleeping positions.
If there's no reason to crate her at night other than "this is the way we've always done it" then I urge you to reconsider the paradigm. See what happens if you just... don't crate her one night.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 4:02 AM on January 30, 2016
Agree with approach to letting your dog choose new sleeping positions and surfaces. The fact that she has been waking up in the middle of the night might mean that something caused/is causing some discomfort. (Dogs are notoriously good at hiding signs of pain.) Perhaps she injured an area of her body (a leg? her hip?) and now it gets stiff at night. You may want to check with your vet to see if she's showing early signs of arthritis or other issues that come up with aging.
If she seeks out warm spots this time of year, you may want to get a microwaveable pet bed warming pad (an example) and placing it in a favorite dog bed. Then leave the crate door and relevant pathways open so she can move from crate to warm dog bed and back again without waking you.
posted by apennington at 7:47 AM on January 30, 2016
If she seeks out warm spots this time of year, you may want to get a microwaveable pet bed warming pad (an example) and placing it in a favorite dog bed. Then leave the crate door and relevant pathways open so she can move from crate to warm dog bed and back again without waking you.
posted by apennington at 7:47 AM on January 30, 2016
Response by poster: OK, we looked at each other, said "Why do we crate her anyway?" and left the crate door open last night. She came out in 3 seconds, found a spot on the bed, and everyone slept the night through.
"Good humans ... Who says they can't learn new tricks?"
posted by cameradv at 10:38 AM on January 30, 2016 [9 favorites]
"Good humans ... Who says they can't learn new tricks?"
posted by cameradv at 10:38 AM on January 30, 2016 [9 favorites]
Hahaha, awesome resolution. Enjoy!
posted by HotToddy at 11:29 AM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 11:29 AM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Another vote for not crating her. I think she's just trying to say that she wants to hand with you guys. Unless there's a reason she can't or shouldn't, I'd let her. I mean, extra snuggles are never a bad thing are they?
posted by WalkerWestridge at 8:31 PM on January 30, 2016
posted by WalkerWestridge at 8:31 PM on January 30, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
I guess you could try changing her bedding in the crate (maybe add in an unwashed pillowcase or something that smells like you?) But I'm betting that the best way to train her out of it is to ignore her consistently.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:33 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]