Wheeze the Juice
January 20, 2016 3:36 PM Subscribe
Garrett Juice is a mixture of molasses, compost tea, apple cider vinegar, and liquid seaweed. Can it be stored?
The recipe in one of Howard Garrett's books for concentrate made over a gallon, and it's been sitting in a sealed bucket for some time at ambient temperature. Surely, if it's a gallon of concentrate meant to be used a cup and a half at a time it can sit around, right? What's the worst that can happen, it rots more? Will its benefits for my plants change?
I can't find Garrett or anyone else saying anything about this anywhere.
The recipe in one of Howard Garrett's books for concentrate made over a gallon, and it's been sitting in a sealed bucket for some time at ambient temperature. Surely, if it's a gallon of concentrate meant to be used a cup and a half at a time it can sit around, right? What's the worst that can happen, it rots more? Will its benefits for my plants change?
I can't find Garrett or anyone else saying anything about this anywhere.
Response by poster: It's not for drinking it's for fertilizing plants.
posted by cmoj at 3:41 PM on January 20, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by cmoj at 3:41 PM on January 20, 2016 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: And it it's not clear, "compost tea" is compost soaked in water.
posted by cmoj at 3:43 PM on January 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cmoj at 3:43 PM on January 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Should be good. The caveat here is that I don't really know what I'm talking about, but molasses and apple cider vinegar are more or less shelf stable for human consumption, and you've got one less variable when it comes to plants (namely, taste). The recipe I just found for making your own liquid seaweed is basically just letting seaweed decompose in a barrel of water for a month or three, so again, probably not a big deal. Same deal with the tea.
If "some time" is reasonable (less than, say, five years), I say use it. Full speed ahead. If it's more than that, the worst that could happen is somehow its potency has changed and your plants may not like it as much.
posted by papayaninja at 3:49 PM on January 20, 2016
If "some time" is reasonable (less than, say, five years), I say use it. Full speed ahead. If it's more than that, the worst that could happen is somehow its potency has changed and your plants may not like it as much.
posted by papayaninja at 3:49 PM on January 20, 2016
I would test it out on some plants first, it's probably fermented quite a lot, to the point where it could mess up the bacteria balance in normal dirt if it's turned even slightly alcoholic. So just be careful and don't use it on anything too important.
I'd suggest perhaps doing something similar but in a dry formula. Powdered molasses,dry beet pulp and some dry seaweed that's been put through a spice grinder would probably do the trick. That way you can store it dry and rehydrate as needed.
Also, apple cider vinegar is actually a weed killer, so I'd think twice before using it in something that's meant to be a fertilizer.
posted by InkDrinker at 5:17 PM on January 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd suggest perhaps doing something similar but in a dry formula. Powdered molasses,dry beet pulp and some dry seaweed that's been put through a spice grinder would probably do the trick. That way you can store it dry and rehydrate as needed.
Also, apple cider vinegar is actually a weed killer, so I'd think twice before using it in something that's meant to be a fertilizer.
posted by InkDrinker at 5:17 PM on January 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Let me tell you a story.
We had some of that in a sealed container in a hidden corner of the garage and we forgot about it for a few months. My husband grabbed ladder that was stored right next to the garage door and accidentally moved the container's lid a tiny bit. My husband closed the garage door and took the ladder to a neighbor's house before THE SMELL got to him. When I got home an hour later the smell was so awful I thought we had a sewer leak and called a plumber to come STAT. Plumber arrives and says 1 - that's not sewer gas and 2 - it's not near the drain clean out, but over by the door. It was like death that smell. We had to leave all the windows and doors open for days.
By all that you hold dear do not open that container.
posted by 26.2 at 5:28 PM on January 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
We had some of that in a sealed container in a hidden corner of the garage and we forgot about it for a few months. My husband grabbed ladder that was stored right next to the garage door and accidentally moved the container's lid a tiny bit. My husband closed the garage door and took the ladder to a neighbor's house before THE SMELL got to him. When I got home an hour later the smell was so awful I thought we had a sewer leak and called a plumber to come STAT. Plumber arrives and says 1 - that's not sewer gas and 2 - it's not near the drain clean out, but over by the door. It was like death that smell. We had to leave all the windows and doors open for days.
By all that you hold dear do not open that container.
posted by 26.2 at 5:28 PM on January 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
There are gardeners who swear that when you make this kind of homegrown fertilizer, the ultimate goal is a bacterial brew. There are others who say that you should be going for a fungal brew. This recipe is trying to cover both bases and make everyone happy.
The molasses is in there essentially to feed the beneficial bacteria in the compost tea so that it multiplies. The liquid seaweed is in there to give the concoction a fungal population. (Although I've read at least one source that says you should use kelp or kelp powder instead, because off-the-shelf liquid seaweed can contain preservatives or anti-fungal agents. Not sure how accurate that is.) I'm not sure what purpose the ACV serves.
The problem with storing it, I think, is that your little bacterial and fungal guys are eventually going to run out of molasses and seaweed to feed off of. They're going to start dying, and that's going to attract other little microbial guys that feed on the stuff that died. In other words -- you're not just storing it, you're fermenting it. Think of a sourdough starter -- it turns sour because new generations of yeast feed on the old generations of yeast and emit CO2 in the process, thus the bubbling.
Fermenting, not storing. As 26.2 said, that ferment isn't going to smell good AT ALL.
I'm not a scientist! But, I know a lot about compost tea, and I know a lot about fermenting and making sourdough, and I think this is a happy occasion where two of my oddball areas of often-useless knowledge happen to overlap.
BTW, I make KILLER compost tea by soaking one knee-high nylon full of compost that I make with manure from my chickens (in other words, it got really hot) in a 5-gallon bucket of water, along with a couple tablespoons of molasses, and aerating it using a cheap aquarium pump for three days. I swear to you, one application of that stuff literally makes the plants grow overnight. I've always wanted to get photographic proof, but I haven't gotten around to it.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:56 PM on January 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
The molasses is in there essentially to feed the beneficial bacteria in the compost tea so that it multiplies. The liquid seaweed is in there to give the concoction a fungal population. (Although I've read at least one source that says you should use kelp or kelp powder instead, because off-the-shelf liquid seaweed can contain preservatives or anti-fungal agents. Not sure how accurate that is.) I'm not sure what purpose the ACV serves.
The problem with storing it, I think, is that your little bacterial and fungal guys are eventually going to run out of molasses and seaweed to feed off of. They're going to start dying, and that's going to attract other little microbial guys that feed on the stuff that died. In other words -- you're not just storing it, you're fermenting it. Think of a sourdough starter -- it turns sour because new generations of yeast feed on the old generations of yeast and emit CO2 in the process, thus the bubbling.
Fermenting, not storing. As 26.2 said, that ferment isn't going to smell good AT ALL.
I'm not a scientist! But, I know a lot about compost tea, and I know a lot about fermenting and making sourdough, and I think this is a happy occasion where two of my oddball areas of often-useless knowledge happen to overlap.
BTW, I make KILLER compost tea by soaking one knee-high nylon full of compost that I make with manure from my chickens (in other words, it got really hot) in a 5-gallon bucket of water, along with a couple tablespoons of molasses, and aerating it using a cheap aquarium pump for three days. I swear to you, one application of that stuff literally makes the plants grow overnight. I've always wanted to get photographic proof, but I haven't gotten around to it.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:56 PM on January 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Uh, are you using it on your indoor plants or outdoor plants? You might want to reconsider using it on indoor plants, even highly diluted, because it's STANKY. I let my little formulation ripen for a month in the summer, diluted it and did a foliar application in my garden, and I could smell it on my hands and my plants and everything for ages. I think I was so scared to open the last bottle of it that it's still sitting sealed on my deck, now frozen and under a snowbank.
posted by bluebelle at 6:36 PM on January 20, 2016
posted by bluebelle at 6:36 PM on January 20, 2016
It's true it will stink to high heaven, and it's also true that you will get cultures of bacteria and fungus. But you don't know which local strains will join with, and perhaps overtake, the ones you have started.
The ph might go all over the board. You might grow a good amount of mold of unknown provenance.
If you want to do this kind of thing you might want to be testing it for things you don't want. I would at least test the ph to see if that's something good for the plant you are trying to help.
posted by littlewater at 8:49 PM on January 20, 2016
The ph might go all over the board. You might grow a good amount of mold of unknown provenance.
If you want to do this kind of thing you might want to be testing it for things you don't want. I would at least test the ph to see if that's something good for the plant you are trying to help.
posted by littlewater at 8:49 PM on January 20, 2016
sitting in a sealed bucket for some time at ambient temperature
You are very lucky that this mixture hasn't produced some gas and popped the top off the bucket. Very carefully move the bucket outside.
posted by yohko at 10:23 PM on January 20, 2016
You are very lucky that this mixture hasn't produced some gas and popped the top off the bucket. Very carefully move the bucket outside.
posted by yohko at 10:23 PM on January 20, 2016
I wouldn't use that, because of the reasons cited above - because yikes, but if in the future you can't use a full gallon you could store 'serving size' applications in the freezer so it's only as gross as it has to be when you go to use it.
Also, I seriously wish he'd called that something, anything else.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:10 AM on January 21, 2016
Also, I seriously wish he'd called that something, anything else.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:10 AM on January 21, 2016
Also, apple cider vinegar is actually a weed killer, so I'd think twice before using it in something that's meant to be a fertilizer.
I'd imagine that at low concentrations, it's perfectly fine.
posted by maryr at 7:49 AM on January 21, 2016
I'd imagine that at low concentrations, it's perfectly fine.
posted by maryr at 7:49 AM on January 21, 2016
You can buy this stuff commercially prepared in large quantities. The labels usually just say, "store in a cool, dry place" and "shake well before using."
If you're in doubt, don't use it for foliar feeding or direct application. Dilute it and apply it to the soil.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:02 AM on January 21, 2016
If you're in doubt, don't use it for foliar feeding or direct application. Dilute it and apply it to the soil.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 10:02 AM on January 21, 2016
Best answer: The bucket had been sitting outside and in a shed since last summer. I took it out into the open air and opened it anxiously... it's not really any different from when I last checked on it about a week after I made it. It's not stinky (in fact it smells kinda good, like molasses and fertile earth), and I've been using it diluted as a gentle feeder for my seedlings for over a week now with no ill effects to myself or my plants.
For posterity, since I'm apparently the first person on the internet to ask this question, I'm marking answers from people with direct experience.
posted by cmoj at 3:47 PM on February 2, 2016
For posterity, since I'm apparently the first person on the internet to ask this question, I'm marking answers from people with direct experience.
posted by cmoj at 3:47 PM on February 2, 2016
« Older Travel insurance in the case of pet illness | Macbook refresh; best practices needed. Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kindall at 3:39 PM on January 20, 2016 [4 favorites]