I think I'm doing initial dating-site contacts wrong
January 16, 2016 2:33 AM Subscribe
I've been finding dating online frustrating. Everyone finds dating online frustrating. However - for me (as a guy contacting women), I seem to be doing especially badly at writing initial messages that lead to women responding, or even viewing my profile. What are those supposed to look like, anyway?
I use OKCupid exclusively (early 30s professional straight guy in a mid-sized US city), and probably contact about 6-8 women a month, and have been doing so for over a year now. 95%+ percent of the time, not only do I not get a response, but the woman doesn't even view my profile (I can see who visits). When someone does click my profile, though, they also tend to respond, and once they respond once, it's usually fast and easy to get a 1st date (and a 2nd, for that matter). The conclusion I have drawn is that my initial messages are, well, bad. What are they supposed to look like?
Here's what I am doing now. I tend to send quite short messages, basically asking an icebreaker-type question about something mentioned in her profile. For instance, if she'd recently traveled to Chile. "Hey, I see how you've just come back from Chile. How was it? I've long wanted to go - what were some of your favorite sights?" Or, perhaps: "XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! Have you seen YYYYY, by the same director?" That's it - the entire message. I don't include a greeting (feels weird without knowing their real name), I don't sign them, I don't put in any flirty context about how they seem cute or cool or I liked their photo or I'd like to get to know them or anything like that. I will sometimes put 2 or 3 of these questions into one message, though, and I do sometimes try to make the questions a bit witty / funny when possible.
A couple of potential things I wanted to address in advance, since anon: a) I am not (with maybe a few exceptions) trying to date "out of my league" - the women I am contacting online are neither more attractive nor more accomplished than other women I've dated recently; and I bring quite a lot to the table as a potential partner myself b) my photos are at-least decent I would say; certainly not awful, and I'm objectively not-unattractive. I'm working on getting some better photos of myself, but I don't think it's the main problem (incidentally, I don't have any awful bro-y shirtless mirror pics or anything) c) I carefully select woman online who I think would be a good match, both according to the site's algorithms (which seem pretty good, surprisingly), by my own preferences, and by me matching what the woman says she is looking for. Contacting 3,5,10X more women is simply not plausible for me - I feel I am already contacting pretty much everyone in my area who is on the site, who I find appealing, and whose profile doesn't suggest they're not looking for someone very different from me or something very different than what I am looking for.
I use OKCupid exclusively (early 30s professional straight guy in a mid-sized US city), and probably contact about 6-8 women a month, and have been doing so for over a year now. 95%+ percent of the time, not only do I not get a response, but the woman doesn't even view my profile (I can see who visits). When someone does click my profile, though, they also tend to respond, and once they respond once, it's usually fast and easy to get a 1st date (and a 2nd, for that matter). The conclusion I have drawn is that my initial messages are, well, bad. What are they supposed to look like?
Here's what I am doing now. I tend to send quite short messages, basically asking an icebreaker-type question about something mentioned in her profile. For instance, if she'd recently traveled to Chile. "Hey, I see how you've just come back from Chile. How was it? I've long wanted to go - what were some of your favorite sights?" Or, perhaps: "XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! Have you seen YYYYY, by the same director?" That's it - the entire message. I don't include a greeting (feels weird without knowing their real name), I don't sign them, I don't put in any flirty context about how they seem cute or cool or I liked their photo or I'd like to get to know them or anything like that. I will sometimes put 2 or 3 of these questions into one message, though, and I do sometimes try to make the questions a bit witty / funny when possible.
A couple of potential things I wanted to address in advance, since anon: a) I am not (with maybe a few exceptions) trying to date "out of my league" - the women I am contacting online are neither more attractive nor more accomplished than other women I've dated recently; and I bring quite a lot to the table as a potential partner myself b) my photos are at-least decent I would say; certainly not awful, and I'm objectively not-unattractive. I'm working on getting some better photos of myself, but I don't think it's the main problem (incidentally, I don't have any awful bro-y shirtless mirror pics or anything) c) I carefully select woman online who I think would be a good match, both according to the site's algorithms (which seem pretty good, surprisingly), by my own preferences, and by me matching what the woman says she is looking for. Contacting 3,5,10X more women is simply not plausible for me - I feel I am already contacting pretty much everyone in my area who is on the site, who I find appealing, and whose profile doesn't suggest they're not looking for someone very different from me or something very different than what I am looking for.
They still might be visiting your profile - I have OkC set so that nobody can see I visit them (with the trade-off that I can't see who visits me, but I don't much care who visits so much as who messages). In which case, there could be something on your profile that's off-putting but without seeing it that's hard to say.
As a woman messaging men, your messages sound similar to the ones I send, and my response rate is also pretty poor. But they're the kind I like to receive, so anyone who thinks that's an uninteresting way to start a conversation probably doesn't share my communication style anyway, just like I don't reply to people who just send 'hi'.
I think it's just that online dating sucks, really, which is unsatisfying because it doesn't give you anything to fix, but it doesn't sound like there is much to fix. I have a very similar experience down to how I pick who to message, what I send, how my profile looks, etc. but I haven't had much luck with dates. I know I'm pretty awesome - I'm just not to everybody's taste.
posted by theseldomseenkid at 2:58 AM on January 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
As a woman messaging men, your messages sound similar to the ones I send, and my response rate is also pretty poor. But they're the kind I like to receive, so anyone who thinks that's an uninteresting way to start a conversation probably doesn't share my communication style anyway, just like I don't reply to people who just send 'hi'.
I think it's just that online dating sucks, really, which is unsatisfying because it doesn't give you anything to fix, but it doesn't sound like there is much to fix. I have a very similar experience down to how I pick who to message, what I send, how my profile looks, etc. but I haven't had much luck with dates. I know I'm pretty awesome - I'm just not to everybody's taste.
posted by theseldomseenkid at 2:58 AM on January 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Those sound fine intro messages, really. I think first messages aren't really supposed to do much more than prove that you've read their profile (i.e, aren't sending copied messages), and be nicely written and interesting enough to not instantly put people off the idea of even looking at your profile.
I used to get a pretty good response rate to sent messages on OkCupid, and I think part of this is that I would tend to only send messages if I could really work up some enthusiasm for the message I was sending. There were a lot of people who looked and sounded really great and interesting and had high match scores, but if for whatever reason I couldn't think of any interesting questions to ask that seemed like it would lead to an interesting conversation, I wouldn't message. Sometimes I would do that anyway, but almost without exception those wouldn't go anywhere.
My other advice would be - pay for the site. You can then see who "Favourites" you. Messaging people who've already looked at your profile and clicked the like button are obviously much more likely to respond positively. I suppose it's the online equivalent of a glance across the room.
Finally - answer a lot of the questions. Then fill in the explanation for your answers to those questions, pretty much as if you were having a conversation with someone interesting who you like about that question. Not only does this let people know a bit more about you, which is good, but it also bumps you into people's Recent Activity feeds, and more people will see your photo as a result.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 3:35 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I used to get a pretty good response rate to sent messages on OkCupid, and I think part of this is that I would tend to only send messages if I could really work up some enthusiasm for the message I was sending. There were a lot of people who looked and sounded really great and interesting and had high match scores, but if for whatever reason I couldn't think of any interesting questions to ask that seemed like it would lead to an interesting conversation, I wouldn't message. Sometimes I would do that anyway, but almost without exception those wouldn't go anywhere.
My other advice would be - pay for the site. You can then see who "Favourites" you. Messaging people who've already looked at your profile and clicked the like button are obviously much more likely to respond positively. I suppose it's the online equivalent of a glance across the room.
Finally - answer a lot of the questions. Then fill in the explanation for your answers to those questions, pretty much as if you were having a conversation with someone interesting who you like about that question. Not only does this let people know a bit more about you, which is good, but it also bumps you into people's Recent Activity feeds, and more people will see your photo as a result.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 3:35 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Those are the kinds of messages I like to receive!
Make sure your main profile photo is good so they don't reject you on that alone.
Also, have you checked "last online" times? It's possible you're messaging people who don't use the site much/ aren't actively looking.
Also try using Quickmatch. They'll tell you if you have mutual "likes" even if you don't pay to use the site. (If you do it on the app/ mobile you only see photos, but if you do it on a computer you can see the whole profile in Quickmatch.)
posted by metasarah at 5:22 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Make sure your main profile photo is good so they don't reject you on that alone.
Also, have you checked "last online" times? It's possible you're messaging people who don't use the site much/ aren't actively looking.
Also try using Quickmatch. They'll tell you if you have mutual "likes" even if you don't pay to use the site. (If you do it on the app/ mobile you only see photos, but if you do it on a computer you can see the whole profile in Quickmatch.)
posted by metasarah at 5:22 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
(On the app if you tap the quickmatch picture to full screen as if to look through all their pics and then swipe right instead of left, you can see their self summary. I only discovered this recently. )
posted by theseldomseenkid at 5:40 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by theseldomseenkid at 5:40 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hi, no, your messages are terrible. Sorry. But you can fix them because I can tell you exactly what's wrong with them.
You're putting 100% of the responsibility to be entertaining on the person you're contacting.
When you send me a message asking how my trip to Chile was, where's the value for me? All I get to do is tell you how Chile was, something I have no doubt done 100000 times before because going to Chile is cool and something folks are likely to ask about. Maybe it was fun talking about my trip to Chile the first time. Hell, maybe even the second time. But now I'm bored. I don't want to go on another first date where I just get peppered with questions from some nice enough dude who's interested in me but isn't bringing anything to the table.
In addition to being interested in her, you have to be interesting, too.
You do that by sharing a relevant anecdote using something interesting from their profile as a jumping off point. I mean, think about it. Do you enjoy meeting someone at a party and getting stuck in a "what do you do?" "oh, do you find data services interesting?" "are you originally from the Chicago area?" loop? Maybe you're a masochistic freak and love that but I do not. (I am a woman who enjoys online dating so I feel like my opinion should be relevant to you here.) As an entertaining person myself, I want to know that my date can entertain ME.
So instead of sending this message:
In short, be a content creator. Provide value. Don't make the women do it for you.
posted by phunniemee at 6:08 AM on January 16, 2016 [156 favorites]
You're putting 100% of the responsibility to be entertaining on the person you're contacting.
When you send me a message asking how my trip to Chile was, where's the value for me? All I get to do is tell you how Chile was, something I have no doubt done 100000 times before because going to Chile is cool and something folks are likely to ask about. Maybe it was fun talking about my trip to Chile the first time. Hell, maybe even the second time. But now I'm bored. I don't want to go on another first date where I just get peppered with questions from some nice enough dude who's interested in me but isn't bringing anything to the table.
In addition to being interested in her, you have to be interesting, too.
You do that by sharing a relevant anecdote using something interesting from their profile as a jumping off point. I mean, think about it. Do you enjoy meeting someone at a party and getting stuck in a "what do you do?" "oh, do you find data services interesting?" "are you originally from the Chicago area?" loop? Maybe you're a masochistic freak and love that but I do not. (I am a woman who enjoys online dating so I feel like my opinion should be relevant to you here.) As an entertaining person myself, I want to know that my date can entertain ME.
So instead of sending this message:
"Hey, I see how you've just come back from Chile. How was it? I've long wanted to go - what were some of your favorite sights?"which tells me nothing about YOU personally and can be loosely translated as "I've established that I can read, and am showing a polite level of interest in you, please do 100% of the work in responding" try sending a message like this:
"Hi! I've always wanted to go to Chile! Did you get a chance to visit the southern end of the country and see the penguins? Ever since going to New Zealand a few years ago and seeing a colony of fairy penguins (so tiny!) I've had a dream to go see penguins on every continent. Haven't made it down to South America yet but I hear Chile's got good penguin country. Did you go for penguin tourism or stick mostly to the cities?"You need to find something about yourself that makes you interesting and different from the other 10000 guys asking her about her trip to Chile and run with it. You get to ask all the same questions as before, but you've also provided information about who you are and proved that you'll still find something to talk about after the small talk pleasantries are exchanged.
In short, be a content creator. Provide value. Don't make the women do it for you.
posted by phunniemee at 6:08 AM on January 16, 2016 [156 favorites]
I also wanted to comment that these are great first messages; if you messaged me I would 100% want to respond just to tell you about my trip to Chile or whatever.
I have to assume that it is your pictures. Your main profile picture has to be both accurate and an attention-getter. I'm a lady, but my main picture when I was on OKCupid was me with a puppy and I got several messages and looks based just on that, for example.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:09 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have to assume that it is your pictures. Your main profile picture has to be both accurate and an attention-getter. I'm a lady, but my main picture when I was on OKCupid was me with a puppy and I got several messages and looks based just on that, for example.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:09 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am a woman your age. Your messages would not cause me to respond or look at your profile unless you had a very appealing photo. Your messages feel interrogative and offer nothing of yourself.
On preview, phummiemee has it.
posted by bimbam at 6:11 AM on January 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
On preview, phummiemee has it.
posted by bimbam at 6:11 AM on January 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
What I suspect is happening is that you're getting lost in the flood. I don't see anything wrong with your messages, but neither do I see much to make you stand out. The women you contact might get tons of messages just like this.
Here's something to consider. When you write to someone and ask questions about their interests ('I see you enjoy X, me too, tell me more?'), you're telling them very little about yourself except that you're interested in them. Which is great, but who are you exactly, and what is there for them to grab onto to pique their potential interest in you?
You could try shifting your mindset. Imagine that you have something to offer which these people would like to know, and that if they knew what it was, they would want to date you. Instead of coming forward asking for their attention, come forward with some substance about yourself. And on preview, phunniemeee said exactly what I was thinking.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's something to consider. When you write to someone and ask questions about their interests ('I see you enjoy X, me too, tell me more?'), you're telling them very little about yourself except that you're interested in them. Which is great, but who are you exactly, and what is there for them to grab onto to pique their potential interest in you?
You could try shifting your mindset. Imagine that you have something to offer which these people would like to know, and that if they knew what it was, they would want to date you. Instead of coming forward asking for their attention, come forward with some substance about yourself. And on preview, phunniemeee said exactly what I was thinking.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
For example, "XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! Have you seen YYYYY, by the same director?" is not an interesting question (I mean, the answer is yes or no) would make me feel like I was being tested in some way.
I would try redrafting offering something of yourself. "XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! I also really liked YYYYY. Have you seen it? What did you think? I thought ZZZZZ was fantastic in it, but not as scary as in XXXXX".
I suggest not saying YYYYY "by the same director" which feels mansplainy to me. If I've gone to the trouble of listing favorite movies, you can assume I like movies and know who directs them and would like to have a discussion about movies. I would not be interesting in measuring who has seen what movies with a random dude on the Internet. I see what you're trying to do which is be matter of fact and cut out the bullshit, which is great and I would appreciate, but you need to offer more (of yourself) than just questions in your initial message.
posted by bimbam at 6:22 AM on January 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
I would try redrafting offering something of yourself. "XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! I also really liked YYYYY. Have you seen it? What did you think? I thought ZZZZZ was fantastic in it, but not as scary as in XXXXX".
I suggest not saying YYYYY "by the same director" which feels mansplainy to me. If I've gone to the trouble of listing favorite movies, you can assume I like movies and know who directs them and would like to have a discussion about movies. I would not be interesting in measuring who has seen what movies with a random dude on the Internet. I see what you're trying to do which is be matter of fact and cut out the bullshit, which is great and I would appreciate, but you need to offer more (of yourself) than just questions in your initial message.
posted by bimbam at 6:22 AM on January 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Phunniemee nailed it.
posted by greta simone at 6:27 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by greta simone at 6:27 AM on January 16, 2016
OkCupid has a setting that allows you to view someone's profile without them seeing.
It's your photos. You really need to aspire for better than not actively unattractive. You don't need to be a model, but you need to have clear, nice photos. At least two. In this day and age when getting a photo of yourself is so easy, not having a couple decent photos is highly suspicious.
I actually think your messages are just fine. Different people are different, but I've long past go past the idea that hitting it off via witty messages back and forth has absolutely no correlation with clicking on person. As long as the messages arent cut and paste or contain some sort of red flag, I just go off the profile. So put your time and effort into your pictures and profile and I think you'll do a lot better.
posted by whoaali at 7:14 AM on January 16, 2016
It's your photos. You really need to aspire for better than not actively unattractive. You don't need to be a model, but you need to have clear, nice photos. At least two. In this day and age when getting a photo of yourself is so easy, not having a couple decent photos is highly suspicious.
I actually think your messages are just fine. Different people are different, but I've long past go past the idea that hitting it off via witty messages back and forth has absolutely no correlation with clicking on person. As long as the messages arent cut and paste or contain some sort of red flag, I just go off the profile. So put your time and effort into your pictures and profile and I think you'll do a lot better.
posted by whoaali at 7:14 AM on January 16, 2016
Proposed practical test for your messages, in line with bimbam's critique: Draft a response as if you were her. If you get a "hmm, now what?" feeling as you do so, revise your original message. You want it to be easy and natural to write back.
XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! Have you seen YYYYY, by the same director?
Her options are things like "No, I'm more into genre X," "No, but I've been meaning to! Did you like it?," or "Yep! Not one of my favorites, though--the pacing was just off." She might look through your profile and throw a non-sequitur question back at you, or valiently try to turn this into a conversation. (It's doable! But it doesn't stem naturally from answering this question.) Or she might not put in that much effort, because you didn't.
(Side note: thinking one step ahead of your conversation partner is also a great way to decide whether a question like "are you pregnant?" is a good idea.)
posted by cogitron at 7:20 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! Have you seen YYYYY, by the same director?
Her options are things like "No, I'm more into genre X," "No, but I've been meaning to! Did you like it?," or "Yep! Not one of my favorites, though--the pacing was just off." She might look through your profile and throw a non-sequitur question back at you, or valiently try to turn this into a conversation. (It's doable! But it doesn't stem naturally from answering this question.) Or she might not put in that much effort, because you didn't.
(Side note: thinking one step ahead of your conversation partner is also a great way to decide whether a question like "are you pregnant?" is a good idea.)
posted by cogitron at 7:20 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here is how I solved the same problem: put up a fake profile as a woman of the type you want to meet. Then read all the messages that guys send you. If your experience is like mine, you will be surprised at how many messages women get and how similar they all are. You can then figure out how to write messages in your voice that stand out from the crowd. (Of course this is probably unethical, but it is very educational).
posted by procrastination at 7:23 AM on January 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by procrastination at 7:23 AM on January 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Listen to phunnieme, she has the wisdom. Share something of yourself. Contribute. Open up a bit.
posted by Miko at 7:59 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:59 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I agree that your messages are getting lost in the hundreds of others that women receive, and with what phunnieme said. But, and this may just be me, I might not respond to her message either. I actually prefer people who say something about what we have in common (hey, I think we'd get along well because x and y") and then get straight to suggesting some kind of low-pressure meeting related to what I'm interested in. I hate endless back and forth before meeting someone, because I can't really tell if we're a match until we meet in person anyway. And yes, people can view your profile without you seeing that, so your pictures (or what you've written there) might also be an issue. And they can see a thumbnail shot along with your message.
posted by three_red_balloons at 8:16 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by three_red_balloons at 8:16 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't do online dating, but I would date phunniemee 1000x over anon, and phunniemee isn't even in my demographic.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:16 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:16 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
This was me four years ago. Then I got lucky and sent a (somewhat regrettable) message to a new girl I saw on the site. Fast forward, we've been married for a year and a half. I'd been on OKC for two years before that, and I'd been on some dates and even one serious relationship. So some of it is just patience. That doesn't help you much, but I can tell you from experience that OKC can work.
The other thing, as others have said, is to make sure you're messaging active users. I don't see a problem with the messages you're writing (they could be better, but they're better than what most dudes send), but if you're sending them to girls who haven't been on the site for eight months, you won't get many responses. And writing better responses and taking better photos won't help either. It's buying drinks for girls who are at a bar with a guy already. If girls aren't even looking at your profile, that's a sign they're not really using the site. In my experience, even girls who have no interest will still visit your profile if you send a message.
I don't think it would be out of the question to message some girls who have viewed your profile but didn't respond to see why they weren't interested.
My wife says the biggest things she looked at were education, employment, and good grammar.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:19 AM on January 16, 2016
The other thing, as others have said, is to make sure you're messaging active users. I don't see a problem with the messages you're writing (they could be better, but they're better than what most dudes send), but if you're sending them to girls who haven't been on the site for eight months, you won't get many responses. And writing better responses and taking better photos won't help either. It's buying drinks for girls who are at a bar with a guy already. If girls aren't even looking at your profile, that's a sign they're not really using the site. In my experience, even girls who have no interest will still visit your profile if you send a message.
I don't think it would be out of the question to message some girls who have viewed your profile but didn't respond to see why they weren't interested.
My wife says the biggest things she looked at were education, employment, and good grammar.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:19 AM on January 16, 2016
It may just be that the women you're messaging don't find you attractive enough or too average and similar. Or maybe they're a little too burned out to engage at the moment. Dating is exhausting even if you're a woman who gets lots of decent messages from okay guys. After awhile, all the guys seem pretty similar and pretty boring and it's just tedious and you need to recharge to get over dating fatigue by browsing profiles until you're re-inspired by someone you find really appealing and energizes you to get back in the mix.
Women may read your messages, but their heart may not be in it or they may be very busy at work or dealing with the hundred zillion responsibilities our gender is tasked with that doesn't allow us to focus on just replying to OKC messages.
Be patient, and understand that women have so much on their plate and have to meet so many more professional and personal demands on their time that they don't get to just focus on fun date nights and replying to strangers can feel taxing after working so hard all the time to meet so many people's needs.
Accept that you can't control or make people you don't really know match your enthusiasm. And know that they're not doing it to insult you or hurt your ego, it's just that you can't convince the people you're attracted to to drop everything and respond.
Maybe you should message many more women to improve your odds.
I didn't respond to one guy (back when I had an account) for a few weeks just because I was exhausted. I still logged in, and I replied when I finally felt like I wanted to go on a date and he was great and we were together for a year, and he ultimately isn't What I need in a true partner, but I still adore him and love him and I'm so glad he was laidback enough to not get insulted thAt it took me weeks to reply to his email.
Just relax and keep your temper and respect that women have a ton of professional and personal responsibilities and that it's easy to feel completely depleted after fulfilling everyone's demands. (And Please don't be one of those guys that sends a "If you don't respond in the next 24 hrs, I'll just assume you aren't interested" because it's whiny, immature, and unappealing.)
Be patient and understanding and stay positive and don't get bitter, and good things will happen.
posted by discopolo at 8:25 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Women may read your messages, but their heart may not be in it or they may be very busy at work or dealing with the hundred zillion responsibilities our gender is tasked with that doesn't allow us to focus on just replying to OKC messages.
Be patient, and understand that women have so much on their plate and have to meet so many more professional and personal demands on their time that they don't get to just focus on fun date nights and replying to strangers can feel taxing after working so hard all the time to meet so many people's needs.
Accept that you can't control or make people you don't really know match your enthusiasm. And know that they're not doing it to insult you or hurt your ego, it's just that you can't convince the people you're attracted to to drop everything and respond.
Maybe you should message many more women to improve your odds.
I didn't respond to one guy (back when I had an account) for a few weeks just because I was exhausted. I still logged in, and I replied when I finally felt like I wanted to go on a date and he was great and we were together for a year, and he ultimately isn't What I need in a true partner, but I still adore him and love him and I'm so glad he was laidback enough to not get insulted thAt it took me weeks to reply to his email.
Just relax and keep your temper and respect that women have a ton of professional and personal responsibilities and that it's easy to feel completely depleted after fulfilling everyone's demands. (And Please don't be one of those guys that sends a "If you don't respond in the next 24 hrs, I'll just assume you aren't interested" because it's whiny, immature, and unappealing.)
Be patient and understanding and stay positive and don't get bitter, and good things will happen.
posted by discopolo at 8:25 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think it would be out of the question to message some girls who have viewed your profile but didn't respond to see why they weren't interested.
I would recommend against that. It's both desperate and a little creepy. If you saw they viewed your profile and you want to start an interaction, just go with "I noticed you viewed my profile; I viewed yours in turn and saw that we both like XYZ." That is, if you're interested after viewing.
Asking them "why they weren't interested" is going a bit far in demanding that they justify their decision to skip it over, or asking them to offer feedback when there's nothing for them to gain. Especially since many of us have had some unpleasant interrogations of this kind online ("I guess I don't make enough money for you or whatever"), I always tended to look askance at anyone asking why I didn't respond. I just didn't, and there's no point having a conversation about it. If you want feedback on your profile, ask some real women who are your friends and also similar to people you might date to give you feedback on your profile.
posted by Miko at 8:51 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
I would recommend against that. It's both desperate and a little creepy. If you saw they viewed your profile and you want to start an interaction, just go with "I noticed you viewed my profile; I viewed yours in turn and saw that we both like XYZ." That is, if you're interested after viewing.
Asking them "why they weren't interested" is going a bit far in demanding that they justify their decision to skip it over, or asking them to offer feedback when there's nothing for them to gain. Especially since many of us have had some unpleasant interrogations of this kind online ("I guess I don't make enough money for you or whatever"), I always tended to look askance at anyone asking why I didn't respond. I just didn't, and there's no point having a conversation about it. If you want feedback on your profile, ask some real women who are your friends and also similar to people you might date to give you feedback on your profile.
posted by Miko at 8:51 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
I want to chime in to say it's probably your pictures and your profile. You have to understand that many women get inundated with a TON of messages on OKC that sound exactly as bland and boring as yours. Women will still typically respond to even boring/bland/simple messages when 1) your photos are VERY attractive and/or 2) your profile is VERY interesting. If your photos and/or profile are average, you're not going to get many responses.
To be clear: I think it's totally fine to send a 1 or 2 line message that shows you actually took a look at their profile.. I'm not saying send boilerplate messages to every woman -- but I don't think you need to send an entire paragraph about Chilean penguins (honestly if someone did that to me for a first message, I might be a bit annoyed and/or wonder why they have so much time on their hands to send a dissertation for a FIRST message on OKC). I think you're right to keep it short, sweet -- simply because who the fuck has time to write a profound paragraph to dozens (or hundreds) of strangers who may never write back? .. BUT.. understand that unless you've got the wit of Jimmy Fallon, your short message will look exactly like every other simple message that attractive women typically receive.. So in order to distinguish yourself, you need to put more time into your photos and your profile. That's where you front-end your effort and your time.. make gotdamn sure your photos are not just "okay", but GREAT. Make damn well sure your profile is unique and honest and interesting and unusually wonderful. Ask your friends and people that know you offline (NOT women on OKC who weren't interested) for advice and feedback about your profile. I wonder why you didn't link to your profile here.. we can't give you great advice based on your biased and likely inaccurate self-report of what you think your profile does and does not do well..
So basically, work harder on your profile, get some better pictures, ask friends and family for honest feedback and accept the fact that internet dating is a crapshoot - you never know. It's frustrating, yes, but there are things you can do to improve the odds in your favor. Do those things.
posted by Gray Skies at 9:37 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
To be clear: I think it's totally fine to send a 1 or 2 line message that shows you actually took a look at their profile.. I'm not saying send boilerplate messages to every woman -- but I don't think you need to send an entire paragraph about Chilean penguins (honestly if someone did that to me for a first message, I might be a bit annoyed and/or wonder why they have so much time on their hands to send a dissertation for a FIRST message on OKC). I think you're right to keep it short, sweet -- simply because who the fuck has time to write a profound paragraph to dozens (or hundreds) of strangers who may never write back? .. BUT.. understand that unless you've got the wit of Jimmy Fallon, your short message will look exactly like every other simple message that attractive women typically receive.. So in order to distinguish yourself, you need to put more time into your photos and your profile. That's where you front-end your effort and your time.. make gotdamn sure your photos are not just "okay", but GREAT. Make damn well sure your profile is unique and honest and interesting and unusually wonderful. Ask your friends and people that know you offline (NOT women on OKC who weren't interested) for advice and feedback about your profile. I wonder why you didn't link to your profile here.. we can't give you great advice based on your biased and likely inaccurate self-report of what you think your profile does and does not do well..
So basically, work harder on your profile, get some better pictures, ask friends and family for honest feedback and accept the fact that internet dating is a crapshoot - you never know. It's frustrating, yes, but there are things you can do to improve the odds in your favor. Do those things.
posted by Gray Skies at 9:37 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
XXXXX is one of my favorite movies, too! Have you seen YYYYY, by the same director?
I have friends who are single, and women, and this type of question rings to them of mansplainy condescension. Do you think I am incapable of expanding an interest...or using IMDB? I know what other films have been directed by the director of my favorite films, yes. Indeed, I know she's making another one right now, what it's called, who's in it, when it will be released, and whether or not it's probably going to be any good - because the internet exists, and I'm not impressed by you knowing how to use it and acting like I can't possibly.
You may not be doing that, or not on purpose anyway, but understand that women's daily lives are packed full of these little attempts to take us down a notch and we see them coming. Also understand that being a woman on a dating site means that for every probably-decent contact attempt like yours there are one to a dozen gross messages for the purposes of recreational misogyny. You're contacting tired, wary women for whom every contact could at any moment turn unpleasant if it didn't start that way.
(Also, I've watched too many friends get the other variant on this question, which is, "If you like [two other movies listed among her favorites] you should see XXXXX!" We can't figure out if this is some kind of tunnel-illiteracy or a deliberate play of some sort, but neither is going to get you a response.)
In summary, don't neg women with your questions and beware accidentally negging and thereby being dismissed as hostile. If you're going to make a mistake, do it by assuming they're more knowledgeable than they are, not less: "I just re-bought XXXXX on BluRay so I could get the special feature with the Q&A at TIFF, because it's so worth multiple watches." If she doesn't know what BluRay, Q&A, or TIFF is, she can either ask you or Google them. If she doesn't know about the Q&A, she can either Google to find out about it or come back to you and talk about it, or watch it herself and come back to you to talk about it.
OR just "XXXXX is so good, though YYYYY is giving it a run for my favorite of hers. I really like [aspect] of YYYYY." Trust that if she was ignorant of the existence of YYYYY, she can figure it out and will understand why you are comparing the two.
Definitely be wary of a barrage of questions. Make sure you tell more than you ask - ask about one aspect of her Chile trip, and offer a comparable response of your own. Her end impression of your contact should be that you gave more than you're asking for, but that you are actually interested in what she thinks/feels about things and want a conversation.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:49 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
I have friends who are single, and women, and this type of question rings to them of mansplainy condescension. Do you think I am incapable of expanding an interest...or using IMDB? I know what other films have been directed by the director of my favorite films, yes. Indeed, I know she's making another one right now, what it's called, who's in it, when it will be released, and whether or not it's probably going to be any good - because the internet exists, and I'm not impressed by you knowing how to use it and acting like I can't possibly.
You may not be doing that, or not on purpose anyway, but understand that women's daily lives are packed full of these little attempts to take us down a notch and we see them coming. Also understand that being a woman on a dating site means that for every probably-decent contact attempt like yours there are one to a dozen gross messages for the purposes of recreational misogyny. You're contacting tired, wary women for whom every contact could at any moment turn unpleasant if it didn't start that way.
(Also, I've watched too many friends get the other variant on this question, which is, "If you like [two other movies listed among her favorites] you should see XXXXX!" We can't figure out if this is some kind of tunnel-illiteracy or a deliberate play of some sort, but neither is going to get you a response.)
In summary, don't neg women with your questions and beware accidentally negging and thereby being dismissed as hostile. If you're going to make a mistake, do it by assuming they're more knowledgeable than they are, not less: "I just re-bought XXXXX on BluRay so I could get the special feature with the Q&A at TIFF, because it's so worth multiple watches." If she doesn't know what BluRay, Q&A, or TIFF is, she can either ask you or Google them. If she doesn't know about the Q&A, she can either Google to find out about it or come back to you and talk about it, or watch it herself and come back to you to talk about it.
OR just "XXXXX is so good, though YYYYY is giving it a run for my favorite of hers. I really like [aspect] of YYYYY." Trust that if she was ignorant of the existence of YYYYY, she can figure it out and will understand why you are comparing the two.
Definitely be wary of a barrage of questions. Make sure you tell more than you ask - ask about one aspect of her Chile trip, and offer a comparable response of your own. Her end impression of your contact should be that you gave more than you're asking for, but that you are actually interested in what she thinks/feels about things and want a conversation.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:49 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
I too have my views set to private, precisely so that I can look at people's profiles without them monitoring me to see whether I'm responding to their messages promptly. The message you give as an example wouldn't thrill me, but would probably spur me to look at your profile if I happened to receive the email notification of it at a time when I had time to do so. If I received it when I was busy, I'd probably make a mental note to look at it later, and then I'd probably forget to do it. So I might not even read the entire message until the next time I got an email notification, and then I'd remember that it wasn't terribly interesting. But I'd probably still look at your profile. And if the profile were substantially more interesting than the message, I might respond then.
If any of the women you message are, like me, not regularly browsing the site, but receiving email notifications of messages, remember that the email only contains the first two lines of your message. So if I get a message that starts with "Hi," and then a double line break, all I see is "Hi." And I'm absolutely not going to be moved to click through on that. Your first ten words need to spur me to stop whatever I was doing and switch to dating mode. So they need to be a really good ten words.
I also agree with everyone above saying that you need to provide content, not just show that you've read my profile and ask me a question about it. Also, there is absolutely nothing flirty or clever or charming in that message. It doesn't show me anything about your personality, much less anything that might make me feel feelings, especially feelings of the romantical variety. If you're trying to find a friend to go a film festival with, your message might get the job done. But for dating? I need some personality, some charm, some spark.
But yeah, the fact that you don't see them viewing your profile doesn't mean that they're not. So I suspect it's the combination of your message and your profile. Your profile should also have all the qualities people have discussed as important about messages: showing your personality, providing information, giving the woman something to talk about when she messages you. And your photos need to be clear, attractive, and recent. (And, I hope this goes without saying, not of you with other women. I don't care if she's your sister. And I find it confusing when there are other men in the photos as well, because then I have to figure out which one is you. Photos of just you are best. And I don't mean those photos where it's clear you cropped your ex out.) At least one clear photo of your smiling face relative close up (which should be your main photo) and at least one clear photo that shows most or all of your body (clothed) so that I can get a sense of what you look like and picture who I'm talking to when I write back. Everyone will tell you that the words are the important part, and they are, but on a basic level, women aren't going to go to the trouble of exchanging words with a stranger unless they have some sense they might find him physically attractive. So I think you probably need to up your game on both counts.
I don't think it would be out of the question to message some girls who have viewed your profile but didn't respond to see why they weren't interested.
This should absolutely be out of the question. Do not do this. This is what moves a guy from the category of, "he seems nice enough, but maybe I don't feel moved to respond," to "desperate and/or scary, and I'm going to block him permanently." I absolutely am not going to respond to someone who makes me feel like I'm being followed or web-stalked, especially if it was someone I was already lukewarm on, and who is now sending me a message that's basically a slightly more dignified version of, "why don't you love meeeeee?"
posted by decathecting at 9:59 AM on January 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
If any of the women you message are, like me, not regularly browsing the site, but receiving email notifications of messages, remember that the email only contains the first two lines of your message. So if I get a message that starts with "Hi," and then a double line break, all I see is "Hi." And I'm absolutely not going to be moved to click through on that. Your first ten words need to spur me to stop whatever I was doing and switch to dating mode. So they need to be a really good ten words.
I also agree with everyone above saying that you need to provide content, not just show that you've read my profile and ask me a question about it. Also, there is absolutely nothing flirty or clever or charming in that message. It doesn't show me anything about your personality, much less anything that might make me feel feelings, especially feelings of the romantical variety. If you're trying to find a friend to go a film festival with, your message might get the job done. But for dating? I need some personality, some charm, some spark.
But yeah, the fact that you don't see them viewing your profile doesn't mean that they're not. So I suspect it's the combination of your message and your profile. Your profile should also have all the qualities people have discussed as important about messages: showing your personality, providing information, giving the woman something to talk about when she messages you. And your photos need to be clear, attractive, and recent. (And, I hope this goes without saying, not of you with other women. I don't care if she's your sister. And I find it confusing when there are other men in the photos as well, because then I have to figure out which one is you. Photos of just you are best. And I don't mean those photos where it's clear you cropped your ex out.) At least one clear photo of your smiling face relative close up (which should be your main photo) and at least one clear photo that shows most or all of your body (clothed) so that I can get a sense of what you look like and picture who I'm talking to when I write back. Everyone will tell you that the words are the important part, and they are, but on a basic level, women aren't going to go to the trouble of exchanging words with a stranger unless they have some sense they might find him physically attractive. So I think you probably need to up your game on both counts.
I don't think it would be out of the question to message some girls who have viewed your profile but didn't respond to see why they weren't interested.
This should absolutely be out of the question. Do not do this. This is what moves a guy from the category of, "he seems nice enough, but maybe I don't feel moved to respond," to "desperate and/or scary, and I'm going to block him permanently." I absolutely am not going to respond to someone who makes me feel like I'm being followed or web-stalked, especially if it was someone I was already lukewarm on, and who is now sending me a message that's basically a slightly more dignified version of, "why don't you love meeeeee?"
posted by decathecting at 9:59 AM on January 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Phunniemee has it.
There are a few things I mention in my profile that are useful background info (I'm not from the area, I moved here to start a company). I'm looking at my inbox right now and 99% of the messages I get are "What kind of company did you start?" or "Where were you living before this?" I'm not exaggerating when I say I've gotten hundreds of messages exactly like this.
There's nothing wrong with these messages, exactly. They show that they've read my profile and are interested in me, and maybe the first couple of times I would have been eager to answer. Now I have zero interest in sharing this information with every single person who asks, and it means I have to dig through their profile to find something else to talk about if I want to continue the conversation.
I'll give you some (summarized) examples of messages I've gotten that reference other things from my profile (Blue is the Warmest Color, Knut Hamsun, dog training books) and made me want to reply.
- "Blue is the Warmest Color was amazing, and the way it treated appetite was really interesting. (His thoughts on how appetite was treated in the movie.) What did you think of x?" My reply: Yes! (Discussion of other things about appetite)
- "I read Hunger recently and loved it, it was like a hopeful Notes From Underground." Me: Huh, I love Hunger but I've never thought of it as hopeful. What do you find hopeful about it?
- "The thing about dog training is you can't learn everything about it from books, story about how he got into dog training. That said, what was your favorite book on the topic?" Me: I agree, I've read so many books on the subject because xxx. I really identify with this author and this style of training because reasons.
These messages probably wouldn't work for everyone. You might get too close to being mansplainy if you share your thoughts on everything as authoritative -- like if you say, oh, I've been to Chile too, let me explain this thing about Chile to you. Her: uh, dude, yeah, I know, I was just there. Similarly, I've had a lot of people recommend books to me based on other books I like (you may be getting the idea that my profile is mostly books, and you'd be right), and it's like, dude, I said I was a philosophy major, I've heard of Hegel. But I think it's better to risk not hitting it off by sharing your thoughts than it is keeping it very polite and surface level by asking the same questions everyone else is asking.
posted by autolykos at 10:03 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
There are a few things I mention in my profile that are useful background info (I'm not from the area, I moved here to start a company). I'm looking at my inbox right now and 99% of the messages I get are "What kind of company did you start?" or "Where were you living before this?" I'm not exaggerating when I say I've gotten hundreds of messages exactly like this.
There's nothing wrong with these messages, exactly. They show that they've read my profile and are interested in me, and maybe the first couple of times I would have been eager to answer. Now I have zero interest in sharing this information with every single person who asks, and it means I have to dig through their profile to find something else to talk about if I want to continue the conversation.
I'll give you some (summarized) examples of messages I've gotten that reference other things from my profile (Blue is the Warmest Color, Knut Hamsun, dog training books) and made me want to reply.
- "Blue is the Warmest Color was amazing, and the way it treated appetite was really interesting. (His thoughts on how appetite was treated in the movie.) What did you think of x?" My reply: Yes! (Discussion of other things about appetite)
- "I read Hunger recently and loved it, it was like a hopeful Notes From Underground." Me: Huh, I love Hunger but I've never thought of it as hopeful. What do you find hopeful about it?
- "The thing about dog training is you can't learn everything about it from books, story about how he got into dog training. That said, what was your favorite book on the topic?" Me: I agree, I've read so many books on the subject because xxx. I really identify with this author and this style of training because reasons.
These messages probably wouldn't work for everyone. You might get too close to being mansplainy if you share your thoughts on everything as authoritative -- like if you say, oh, I've been to Chile too, let me explain this thing about Chile to you. Her: uh, dude, yeah, I know, I was just there. Similarly, I've had a lot of people recommend books to me based on other books I like (you may be getting the idea that my profile is mostly books, and you'd be right), and it's like, dude, I said I was a philosophy major, I've heard of Hegel. But I think it's better to risk not hitting it off by sharing your thoughts than it is keeping it very polite and surface level by asking the same questions everyone else is asking.
posted by autolykos at 10:03 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, sometimes I browse people's profiles and immediately find something that makes me excited to talk to them -- like OMG, you like this thing? I NEED to talk to you right now about how great this thing is. I have many funny stories about this thing, and I'm going to share one with you so hopefully we can meet up and share more stories about this thing.
Other times, I keep re-reading their profiles, thinking they're good looking and seem pretty cool and there are no red flags, but I can't find any natural way to start a conversation. If I try, it ends up sounded pretty forced and boring and I'm sure they've gotten the same message before.
My life got way better when I decided to only send messages I was really excited about.
posted by autolykos at 10:10 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Other times, I keep re-reading their profiles, thinking they're good looking and seem pretty cool and there are no red flags, but I can't find any natural way to start a conversation. If I try, it ends up sounded pretty forced and boring and I'm sure they've gotten the same message before.
My life got way better when I decided to only send messages I was really excited about.
posted by autolykos at 10:10 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think calling your messages bad is an unkindness. In person, in the right tone of voice, they could make great conversation starters.
I agree that offering a micro-anecdote about yourself makes replying to you easier. It shows vulnerability and the ability to readily engage in back and forth disclosure of information. Also known as getting to know you chit chat. And in a way that is not so interview like.
posted by PlannedSpontaneity at 11:13 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree that offering a micro-anecdote about yourself makes replying to you easier. It shows vulnerability and the ability to readily engage in back and forth disclosure of information. Also known as getting to know you chit chat. And in a way that is not so interview like.
posted by PlannedSpontaneity at 11:13 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
One more vote for "messages that are just questions put all the work onto the woman."
I used to get OKCupid messages like yours all the time. I ignored pretty much all of them. They made me feel like the guy was asking a question just to have an excuse to say something, not that he really wanted to know--how can you really want to know a specific detail about, or clarification of a preference of, someone you've never met?
The best messages I got were not attempts to start a conversation about one of my interests. They had all these elements:
1) A thing the person liked about/related to in my profile.
2) A reason the person thought he might be the guy for me.
3) An invitation to meet.
Maybe it was just self-selecting, because I'm a forthright and blunt person who appreciates extremely clear communication and never had time or patience for fifteen messages with a stranger about the nuances of my not-so-unusual taste in music or movies.
And a good message can really lead anywhere. Almost 4 years ago, manmillipede, who I now live with, wrote me what I still consider the ideal OkCupid opener. I had in my profile that I sometimes played guitar and sang in a bar, and under preferences, I had that I prefer "intense" to "laid back" and that unlike most women, I didn't prefer guys to be tall. He wrote that he would like to see me play in a bar, said "I'm short and not the least bit laid back" (which to this day I maintain is the most accurate self-description I've ever heard) and then closed with "may i buy you a drink." I hardly ever responded to anyone; I had pretty much written off online dating at that point, but I couldn't say no to a drink from another intense small person who wanted to watch me play guitar. and here we are.
posted by millipede at 11:40 AM on January 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I used to get OKCupid messages like yours all the time. I ignored pretty much all of them. They made me feel like the guy was asking a question just to have an excuse to say something, not that he really wanted to know--how can you really want to know a specific detail about, or clarification of a preference of, someone you've never met?
The best messages I got were not attempts to start a conversation about one of my interests. They had all these elements:
1) A thing the person liked about/related to in my profile.
2) A reason the person thought he might be the guy for me.
3) An invitation to meet.
Maybe it was just self-selecting, because I'm a forthright and blunt person who appreciates extremely clear communication and never had time or patience for fifteen messages with a stranger about the nuances of my not-so-unusual taste in music or movies.
And a good message can really lead anywhere. Almost 4 years ago, manmillipede, who I now live with, wrote me what I still consider the ideal OkCupid opener. I had in my profile that I sometimes played guitar and sang in a bar, and under preferences, I had that I prefer "intense" to "laid back" and that unlike most women, I didn't prefer guys to be tall. He wrote that he would like to see me play in a bar, said "I'm short and not the least bit laid back" (which to this day I maintain is the most accurate self-description I've ever heard) and then closed with "may i buy you a drink." I hardly ever responded to anyone; I had pretty much written off online dating at that point, but I couldn't say no to a drink from another intense small person who wanted to watch me play guitar. and here we are.
posted by millipede at 11:40 AM on January 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I would respond to your messages, if I liked your profile. I generally check profiles for good grammar, interests, political leanings, drug usage, singleness and religion before responding, and look at their photos to see if they might be my type.
posted by bunderful at 12:06 PM on January 16, 2016
posted by bunderful at 12:06 PM on January 16, 2016
I think Phunniemee has it bang on; I have to say that when dudes send me 2-3 questions like that, getting back to them feels like homework, and online dating already feels like a job as it is. One good open-ended question is all you need, really.
I will note that in my city, OKC seems like it's really, really over. I'm still up on there, personally, but I never check my profile anymore because it's like tumbleweeds, it seems. I think everyone is on Tinder. (I actually prefer OKC because you can say more about yourself, but I don't think it's as widely used as it was five years ago.)
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:34 PM on January 16, 2016
I will note that in my city, OKC seems like it's really, really over. I'm still up on there, personally, but I never check my profile anymore because it's like tumbleweeds, it seems. I think everyone is on Tinder. (I actually prefer OKC because you can say more about yourself, but I don't think it's as widely used as it was five years ago.)
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:34 PM on January 16, 2016
I think you're making a bold assumption that the response rate would be higher if you changed your messaging strategy. There is probably a ceiling to your response rate no matter how much effort you spend on your messages. I have never managed to push above a 5-6% response rate on initial messages and this seems to be pretty consistent for straight guys.
You just have to know the odds going in and expect that 95% of your messages will go into the void. Knowing that, I personally do not invest 100% effort in the initial messages I send. I usually just skim their profile, find some "hook" I can comment on to get the ball rolling, fire off a message, and go on with my day. I figure unless my message is lewd or harassing, the content of it doesn't matter too much, it's just something to get them to look at my profile. My profile is well-written and it sounds like me. My photos are recent and look like me. In short, if you would like me, you would like my profile. If they like my profile, they'll respond to my initial message. If they don't, well hey, they probably aren't going to be much fun to date anyway, so why fret about it?
posted by deathpanels at 4:23 PM on January 16, 2016
You just have to know the odds going in and expect that 95% of your messages will go into the void. Knowing that, I personally do not invest 100% effort in the initial messages I send. I usually just skim their profile, find some "hook" I can comment on to get the ball rolling, fire off a message, and go on with my day. I figure unless my message is lewd or harassing, the content of it doesn't matter too much, it's just something to get them to look at my profile. My profile is well-written and it sounds like me. My photos are recent and look like me. In short, if you would like me, you would like my profile. If they like my profile, they'll respond to my initial message. If they don't, well hey, they probably aren't going to be much fun to date anyway, so why fret about it?
posted by deathpanels at 4:23 PM on January 16, 2016
I have never dated online, having married before that really took off. However, I think you need to say something that will generate interest in looking at your profile. It could be as simple as "I was looking at your profile and we seem to have a lot in common", which, in turn, will give her incentive to look at your profile. Think of it as clickbait writing. Do you want to click on a link that says tell me about yourself? Or one that says "You and I have 10 things in common and number 3 will shock you!" :-)
posted by xammerboy at 5:39 PM on January 16, 2016
posted by xammerboy at 5:39 PM on January 16, 2016
Good advice so far. Especially regarding your profile and pics. If someone messaged me with a bunch of questions, I would not respond. But! If your message is well-written and includes something that you like about my profile or why you want to get to know/date me, that would be a good start. Something that actually shows you thought about the person behind the profile. You're not trying to skim and find something generic like mention A + Y = Date!
Make it clear in your profile what you are looking for. Long term relationship? Casual dating? More fun, interesting, exciting friends? Think about your motivation when sending messages to women that you are interested in. Write something intriguing that piques their interest and gives them a reason to respond.
posted by lunastellasol at 6:58 PM on January 16, 2016
Make it clear in your profile what you are looking for. Long term relationship? Casual dating? More fun, interesting, exciting friends? Think about your motivation when sending messages to women that you are interested in. Write something intriguing that piques their interest and gives them a reason to respond.
posted by lunastellasol at 6:58 PM on January 16, 2016
I think you definitely need to bring more to the first message than interrogation. What did you like about her profile? Say something about their overall vibe and why they'd be fun to meet. I think the best ones ever sent to me are a combination of witty and sincere. They usually also complimented me on the way I presented myself in my profile and showed a bit of romance without being icky.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:57 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by honey-barbara at 8:57 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Women typically get hundreds of messages in response to their ads. So even if your messages are great, there's a good chance that she'll read another message she likes before she even sees yours and then get busy talking to / dating that guy instead.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:43 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:43 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, and I'm going to encourage you to use a salutation and sign off. It's just manners. Treat it like a short letter that has some well worn traditions. It's nice to be addressed, going straight to a question isn't really very gentlemanly in my opinion. 'Hi Miss Creamcheese, I really like your profile! You do a lot of cool stuff and the fact that you love Kubrick films stands out to me. Actually I have some of his films listed on my profile, and a few other things in common with you too. Like xxxx, and yyyy. I'm also a person who drops political clangers at Thanksgiving dinners, but somehow my family loves me anyway ;) You seem friendly and lovely in your pics, and together with what you've written I'm definitely interested in finding out more about you. If my profile appeals, maybe we could try meeting soon. Cheers, Mr Knightley.' Or something that suggests warmth in a conversational and happy way.
posted by honey-barbara at 1:47 AM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by honey-barbara at 1:47 AM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nthing Phunniemee a zillion times and with gold stars all over that answer.
To add to that amazing response, I know successful online daters who screen responses based on the simple question:
"How much LABOR is this message unintentionally putting on me and by extension, how much labor (emotional or otherwise but usually emotional) will this person ultimately expect as a given in a relationship?"
If by your very first question you're putting a woman in the position of having to carefully respond to what appears to be a perfectly polite but ultimately time-consuming question, you are inadvertently telling her that you have expectations to be entertained, to be told stories, that this woman is going to have to put in a fair amount of work to have a relationship with you.
See, it seems like a simple enough question but for a lot of women, it's a red flag that you are going to be a lot of work.
Consider how you approach relationships and how active you are and have been historically in your emotional labor. Has your significant other been the one to plan dates/figure out meals because you were okay with anything/discovered cool museum shows/booked movie tickets, etc?
Something as seemingly insignificant as, "Tell me about ___" can be interpreted by women as you're a guy who needs to be entertained or taken care of.
I'm not saying it's true for you but it's something to consider. You can instead write a message that indicates you've actually read her profile by noting something she said, add your own observation and maybe one or two questions (not a bunch because then yeah, you're becoming work) to keep it all moving along:
"I saw you went to Chile; that's a place I'd love to know more about. Last year I went to Omaha City which had neither penguins nor magnificent glaciers but did have my Great Aunt Matilda who taught me the family-secret recipe, snickerdoodle pie. I've been perfecting that recipe in my spare time. Would you recommend Chile as a a must-see destination (after Omaha City, naturally)?"
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:51 AM on January 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
To add to that amazing response, I know successful online daters who screen responses based on the simple question:
"How much LABOR is this message unintentionally putting on me and by extension, how much labor (emotional or otherwise but usually emotional) will this person ultimately expect as a given in a relationship?"
If by your very first question you're putting a woman in the position of having to carefully respond to what appears to be a perfectly polite but ultimately time-consuming question, you are inadvertently telling her that you have expectations to be entertained, to be told stories, that this woman is going to have to put in a fair amount of work to have a relationship with you.
See, it seems like a simple enough question but for a lot of women, it's a red flag that you are going to be a lot of work.
Consider how you approach relationships and how active you are and have been historically in your emotional labor. Has your significant other been the one to plan dates/figure out meals because you were okay with anything/discovered cool museum shows/booked movie tickets, etc?
Something as seemingly insignificant as, "Tell me about ___" can be interpreted by women as you're a guy who needs to be entertained or taken care of.
I'm not saying it's true for you but it's something to consider. You can instead write a message that indicates you've actually read her profile by noting something she said, add your own observation and maybe one or two questions (not a bunch because then yeah, you're becoming work) to keep it all moving along:
"I saw you went to Chile; that's a place I'd love to know more about. Last year I went to Omaha City which had neither penguins nor magnificent glaciers but did have my Great Aunt Matilda who taught me the family-secret recipe, snickerdoodle pie. I've been perfecting that recipe in my spare time. Would you recommend Chile as a a must-see destination (after Omaha City, naturally)?"
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:51 AM on January 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm a woman, just turned 50, and my experience has been exactly the same with men. I will contact them initially (which in itself makes me kind of sad) with some light but prompting message, and usually get one message back, IF THAT. It's a mystery.
posted by FlyByDay at 8:58 PM on January 17, 2016
posted by FlyByDay at 8:58 PM on January 17, 2016
What phunniemee said, but also as a late twenties woman on OKC myself I would find receiving 2-3 tailored questions to be overkill. One is plenty.
posted by herschellie at 11:49 PM on January 18, 2016
posted by herschellie at 11:49 PM on January 18, 2016
« Older I quit my old life in search of a new one. Now one... | I think I might know more about American Dad! than... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:57 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]