Best majors for international students in terms of job prospects?
January 15, 2016 3:02 PM Subscribe
Majoring in economics(with one or two finance courses thrown in it) at a prestigious(i.e. Ivy League, top 20) university, where finance/accounting majors are not offered
OR
Business/accounting/finance majors in 2nd tier(i.e. top50~top100) universities
which is more likely to land you a job in say wall street or good firms?
p.s. I chose the former(econ major at ivy) instead of a mid-tier business college(NYU stern, berkeley haas etc), chose to come back to my home country(I frankly failed in securing any high-paying job in the US and decided not to try to get jobs for very long), and then am now thinking about doing an MBA or DBA(doctor of business admin) to move out of my country again.
Honestly, if you want finance, math or econ with a lot of math will take you further than a "business"-oriented degree. Hiring math majors is a shortcut to finding people with analytical skills.
(P.S. As someone who went to Berkeley, I think I'm obliged to point out it's not exactly second tier.)
posted by hoyland at 4:24 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
(P.S. As someone who went to Berkeley, I think I'm obliged to point out it's not exactly second tier.)
posted by hoyland at 4:24 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
If you want an h1b, nursing or other in-demand careers in the medical field are the best shot, followed by computer science and engineering. Anything else will be a long shot for an h1b with an undergrad degree only. If you're doing business, you have a better chance with a masters.
Intern with a company now that is known for sponsoring people after graduation. CPT is very strict, so meet with your academic and international student advisors to find one that fits. Make yourself indispensable so that they will sponsor you.
As a professor and as a long time friend of many foreigners, I have to say that very very few get h1bs sponsored and those that do, worked extremely hard to get them. And it was very difficult and stressful during the time that they were in limbo.
You might be better off trying the green card lottery or applying to Canada. Canada has a number of far easier ways to emigrate than the United States does.
posted by k8t at 4:26 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Intern with a company now that is known for sponsoring people after graduation. CPT is very strict, so meet with your academic and international student advisors to find one that fits. Make yourself indispensable so that they will sponsor you.
As a professor and as a long time friend of many foreigners, I have to say that very very few get h1bs sponsored and those that do, worked extremely hard to get them. And it was very difficult and stressful during the time that they were in limbo.
You might be better off trying the green card lottery or applying to Canada. Canada has a number of far easier ways to emigrate than the United States does.
posted by k8t at 4:26 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Okay, I re-read your question 4 more times and I think that you're asking about graduate programs, right?
In my experience, MA degrees make one slightly more competitive for employment in the US, but one needs to have specific skills that are scarce in the US. Moreover, if your goal is to be at one of the big firms, you need to be in a top 10 (maybe 5) program and then stand out not only among the international students but all the students. Given how competitive these programs are, that can be a challenge.
If your real goal is to GTFO of your country, there are far more efficient and affordable ways to do it rather than doing a business degree and hoping that the odds are in your favor for admissions and then standing out among your classmates.
posted by k8t at 4:34 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
In my experience, MA degrees make one slightly more competitive for employment in the US, but one needs to have specific skills that are scarce in the US. Moreover, if your goal is to be at one of the big firms, you need to be in a top 10 (maybe 5) program and then stand out not only among the international students but all the students. Given how competitive these programs are, that can be a challenge.
If your real goal is to GTFO of your country, there are far more efficient and affordable ways to do it rather than doing a business degree and hoping that the odds are in your favor for admissions and then standing out among your classmates.
posted by k8t at 4:34 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Can you clarify if you're talking about undergrad or grad school? If you're talking about the latter, this seems like a false dichotomy.
posted by lunasol at 5:46 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by lunasol at 5:46 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ivy. Your curriculum won't really matter. What you're really paying for is access to an alumni association, and, no offense to Berkeley or Northwestern, if you're looking to go to Wall Street, you'll go further with Ivy connections.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:05 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by kevinbelt at 7:05 PM on January 15, 2016
An MBA is a good idea, but the top programs are unlikely to accept you without some job experience (and when it comes to MBAs, you really want one from a top program).
posted by peacheater at 7:25 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 7:25 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you are asking us to second-guess the decision you already made about the degree you already finished, your undergrad econ degree at an Ivy League school. This choice didn't pan out for you professionally, and you're wondering if you would've been better off making another choice to begin with. The main alternative you were thinking about was an undergrad business program, but in the followup you ask us to do the comparison with engineering majors, too.
So this is a sort of woolly question, unclear in itself and unclear as to what if any decision points you are looking for.
I do think Ivy League undergrads continue to be very competitive job-wise with almost any US undergrad program, although it kinda matters which Ivy League school you are talking about.
Does that mean your decision was the right one? Who knows. It sounds like you graduated into a dud job market, and maybe you didn't really want the jobs you were interviewing for, to boot. This is one way that the advice to "do what you love" can outcompete a pure numbers or prestige-chasing strategy: whatever your plan is, it's not going to work unless you commit to it, and it's hard to commit to things you don't want to do.
If what you want to know is, who makes the most money: Ivy econ majors, undergrad business students, or engineers, I think there's some pretty good info out there. But we can't really tell what you want to know.
posted by grobstein at 8:00 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
So this is a sort of woolly question, unclear in itself and unclear as to what if any decision points you are looking for.
I do think Ivy League undergrads continue to be very competitive job-wise with almost any US undergrad program, although it kinda matters which Ivy League school you are talking about.
Does that mean your decision was the right one? Who knows. It sounds like you graduated into a dud job market, and maybe you didn't really want the jobs you were interviewing for, to boot. This is one way that the advice to "do what you love" can outcompete a pure numbers or prestige-chasing strategy: whatever your plan is, it's not going to work unless you commit to it, and it's hard to commit to things you don't want to do.
If what you want to know is, who makes the most money: Ivy econ majors, undergrad business students, or engineers, I think there's some pretty good info out there. But we can't really tell what you want to know.
posted by grobstein at 8:00 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I did the international-student thing specifically to GTFO the country (unlike what k8t says, it ended up actually being the most accessible option) though I opted for the arts instead. ~5 years in Australia with a Bachelors of Creative Industries, got sick of being jobless while in bridging visa limbo, vamoosed off to San Francisco technically for an MFA but really to get a better life, 2 years of a degree and 1 year of OPT, but had to leave because I couldn't secure a job in time for H1Bs and such (the process is really arcane and time-sensitive). I have Australian PR now but I'm currently back in Malaysia because I don't have a job that will let me afford living there (I'm looking).
First question: "best majors" according to who? If you're from a culture similar to mine, we get surrounded by all this messaging about how the only majors worth taking are medicine or business (my dad will still not shut up about how I should have done economics instead). That doesn't actually matter as much as people think it is. Sure, there's more money and pathways in certain fields, but depending on the country your specific degree is less meaningful than any experience you have. (In Australia I noticed companies were stupidly particular about degrees, even if your experience and knowledge is pretty much equivalent; the US was way more flexible.)
When it comes to visa stuff, specific majors can only get you so far. The advantage with stuff in the sciences is that your OPT period is longer (18 months instead of 12). Speaking of which, have you done OPT yet? Are you in a position to do so? That can buy you some valuable time.
When I was doing my OPT I looked into the tech industry specifically because I noticed that they tended to have their shit together with H1Bs in ways that other industries didn't. And even an arts-major-weirdo like myself got a few interviews; I would imagine that there would be tons more opportunities for you simply because business people are really in demand at the moment. So if Wall Street et al doesn't pan out (though I'd imagine they're pretty good with H1Bs) and you still need a visa, try looking there.
posted by divabat at 10:45 PM on January 15, 2016
First question: "best majors" according to who? If you're from a culture similar to mine, we get surrounded by all this messaging about how the only majors worth taking are medicine or business (my dad will still not shut up about how I should have done economics instead). That doesn't actually matter as much as people think it is. Sure, there's more money and pathways in certain fields, but depending on the country your specific degree is less meaningful than any experience you have. (In Australia I noticed companies were stupidly particular about degrees, even if your experience and knowledge is pretty much equivalent; the US was way more flexible.)
When it comes to visa stuff, specific majors can only get you so far. The advantage with stuff in the sciences is that your OPT period is longer (18 months instead of 12). Speaking of which, have you done OPT yet? Are you in a position to do so? That can buy you some valuable time.
When I was doing my OPT I looked into the tech industry specifically because I noticed that they tended to have their shit together with H1Bs in ways that other industries didn't. And even an arts-major-weirdo like myself got a few interviews; I would imagine that there would be tons more opportunities for you simply because business people are really in demand at the moment. So if Wall Street et al doesn't pan out (though I'd imagine they're pretty good with H1Bs) and you still need a visa, try looking there.
posted by divabat at 10:45 PM on January 15, 2016
The people I know who have been most successful at getting jobs on Wall Street have had PhDs in math or a science--physics, chemistry, computer science, biology on the quantitative side.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:46 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:46 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I meant GTFO permanently. Student visas are fine for temporary exits.
posted by k8t at 5:01 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by k8t at 5:01 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
When employers are considering people with a US undergraduate degree, an Ivy or peer economics degree will certainly outrank a business degree from a less-prestigious school, all else equal. Indeed, with the exception of Penn, at the most prestigious schools which do offer an undergraduate business degree, that degree doesn't outrank an economics degree from the same school in any measurable way.
The same is not true for graduate degrees. Employers who want MBAs, want MBAs, and as a general matter aren't putting them in competition with people with other graduate degrees and letting broader institutional prestige settle the matter. If you want to become an investment banker and you were choosing between (say) an MA in economics at Harvard and an MBA at Michigan, you'd probably opt for the latter. (A small subset of employers will consider other professional degrees, like medical degrees or law degrees, as the equivalent of an MBA, but not 2-year masters degrees.)
In more than a decade of hiring on Wall Street, I don't think I've ever seen a DBA or PhD in Business on a resume or in a bio of someone I had reason to look up. The doctorate holders you tend to see on Wall Street tend to be from economics, CS, math, physics or (on the biotech / pharma side) life sciences PhDs.
posted by MattD at 9:52 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
The same is not true for graduate degrees. Employers who want MBAs, want MBAs, and as a general matter aren't putting them in competition with people with other graduate degrees and letting broader institutional prestige settle the matter. If you want to become an investment banker and you were choosing between (say) an MA in economics at Harvard and an MBA at Michigan, you'd probably opt for the latter. (A small subset of employers will consider other professional degrees, like medical degrees or law degrees, as the equivalent of an MBA, but not 2-year masters degrees.)
In more than a decade of hiring on Wall Street, I don't think I've ever seen a DBA or PhD in Business on a resume or in a bio of someone I had reason to look up. The doctorate holders you tend to see on Wall Street tend to be from economics, CS, math, physics or (on the biotech / pharma side) life sciences PhDs.
posted by MattD at 9:52 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am going to state directly what several of the other answers have hinted at: your question is written extremely poorly, and it is very unclear what exactly your situation is and what you are asking.
I mention this to you because, if, as your question seems to indicate, you are interested in seeking employment or graduate education in the US in the future, your level of written english may be holding you back much more than you realize - and much more than having not-quite-the-ideal college major.
posted by kickingtheground at 12:11 PM on January 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I mention this to you because, if, as your question seems to indicate, you are interested in seeking employment or graduate education in the US in the future, your level of written english may be holding you back much more than you realize - and much more than having not-quite-the-ideal college major.
posted by kickingtheground at 12:11 PM on January 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
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posted by red_alert_3 at 3:03 PM on January 15, 2016