No sense of belonging
January 15, 2016 9:20 AM Subscribe
For as long as I can remember, I have not had a sense of belonging. I don't mean that I can't make friends or establish social networks; I don't have a problem with that, though I'm shy. But I never really feel like part of a group. Why do I feel this way, and how do I change this?
This happens on scales large and small, e.g. I don't feel like I'm part of "queer culture" and have never had school or team spirit, and don't feel connected to my workplaces or social groups. Getting more involved (like taking on a position within an organization or going to more events) doesn't help. Even in my small group of dear friends I have known for ages, it sometimes feels a little tenuous and I think of myself as an outsider.
I think it must be primarily an internal thing, because people close to me don't seem to see me that way and tell me I have plenty of good friends, am valued, etc. It usually takes me at least five or ten years before I stop thinking of people as acquaintances and really consider them friends, and I half-expect everyone to leave at some point or decide I've done something wrong and cut me out. Have you experienced this, do you know where it comes from, and how do you change it?
This happens on scales large and small, e.g. I don't feel like I'm part of "queer culture" and have never had school or team spirit, and don't feel connected to my workplaces or social groups. Getting more involved (like taking on a position within an organization or going to more events) doesn't help. Even in my small group of dear friends I have known for ages, it sometimes feels a little tenuous and I think of myself as an outsider.
I think it must be primarily an internal thing, because people close to me don't seem to see me that way and tell me I have plenty of good friends, am valued, etc. It usually takes me at least five or ten years before I stop thinking of people as acquaintances and really consider them friends, and I half-expect everyone to leave at some point or decide I've done something wrong and cut me out. Have you experienced this, do you know where it comes from, and how do you change it?
It sounds like there might be some social anxiety involved. Every AskMe thread seems to involve someone saying "see a therapist", but... see a therapist. From a distance, I'm hearing that you're trying some things, which is good, but I'm also getting the impression that you're still holding back a little, like you're expecting it to fail (which you might not even realize). You have to stop holding back, and therapy is probably the best way to actually help you figure out how to do that.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:46 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinbelt at 9:46 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm kind of like this by nature. It's gotten better over the last 5 years or so.
With your friends in particular, how much are you sharing of your interior life? At some point I realized I was doing a lot of listening/asking people about their lives and not revealing much about what was going on with me besides superficial details. I thought this was polite - I was focusing on them and not burdening them with my garbage! - but I think in some cases it was actually coming off as me holding them at arms-length. Once I started sharing more of what I was thinking/feeling, some of my friendships really deepened.
And yes, say it with me - "therapy really helped."
posted by superfluousm at 9:50 AM on January 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
With your friends in particular, how much are you sharing of your interior life? At some point I realized I was doing a lot of listening/asking people about their lives and not revealing much about what was going on with me besides superficial details. I thought this was polite - I was focusing on them and not burdening them with my garbage! - but I think in some cases it was actually coming off as me holding them at arms-length. Once I started sharing more of what I was thinking/feeling, some of my friendships really deepened.
And yes, say it with me - "therapy really helped."
posted by superfluousm at 9:50 AM on January 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Response by poster: I should add, I've been in therapy for the past 16 years, take antidepressants, have mental health stuff including treatment-refractory depression, anxiety, Asperger's, but this issue doesn't seem particularly mood-dependent and persists even when the depression remits.
posted by thetortoise at 9:58 AM on January 15, 2016
posted by thetortoise at 9:58 AM on January 15, 2016
But I never really feel like part of a group. Why do I feel this way, and how do I change this?
Well, maybe you feel this way because it is true? If so, I don't think it's atypical or something that needs "fixing" because real life is not an episode of Friends or Big Bang Theory. I have the number of friends that makes me happy and while I can and do bring them all together now and then and some of them have their own friendships with one another, we are not by any stretch of the imagination a Big Happy Book Club Gang of Girlfriends.
I just genuinely think this is far, far less common once you leave college.
Having said all of that, what does happen when you make the effort to bring friends together at a place or event you yourself have organised? I mean if this is something that after thought you genuinely do want, how are you nurturing that goal?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:12 AM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, maybe you feel this way because it is true? If so, I don't think it's atypical or something that needs "fixing" because real life is not an episode of Friends or Big Bang Theory. I have the number of friends that makes me happy and while I can and do bring them all together now and then and some of them have their own friendships with one another, we are not by any stretch of the imagination a Big Happy Book Club Gang of Girlfriends.
I just genuinely think this is far, far less common once you leave college.
Having said all of that, what does happen when you make the effort to bring friends together at a place or event you yourself have organised? I mean if this is something that after thought you genuinely do want, how are you nurturing that goal?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:12 AM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I am absolutely like this. I didn't have a sense of belonging with my "family of origin" so I think I just don't feel 100% bonded with even the dearest of friends. I just never learned how to, or felt the need to. And I think that's ok.
A lightbulb went on with regard to that tight, close, clannish bond when I had children, and I do have that with them - I understand it now, and I love and nurture that sense of belonging. But experiencing it with my progeny didn't change how I am with others. I am spending this weekend with friends of 30-years duration, people who know and love me and whom I love as well. I also enjoy the company of lots of people and I am compassionate and caring toward humanity as a whole. But every one of them is outside of my "tribe." And before I found (created) my tribe, I was ok without one.
I'm not sure if you're concerned about being on the outside, or if you're concerned that you're somehow not doing it right. If you are ok on your own, there's nothing wrong with keeping one foot a little bit on the outside of whatever circle you're in. Friends accept us as we are, and mature people know how to calibrate their expectations based on what you're able to offer.
posted by headnsouth at 10:22 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
A lightbulb went on with regard to that tight, close, clannish bond when I had children, and I do have that with them - I understand it now, and I love and nurture that sense of belonging. But experiencing it with my progeny didn't change how I am with others. I am spending this weekend with friends of 30-years duration, people who know and love me and whom I love as well. I also enjoy the company of lots of people and I am compassionate and caring toward humanity as a whole. But every one of them is outside of my "tribe." And before I found (created) my tribe, I was ok without one.
I'm not sure if you're concerned about being on the outside, or if you're concerned that you're somehow not doing it right. If you are ok on your own, there's nothing wrong with keeping one foot a little bit on the outside of whatever circle you're in. Friends accept us as we are, and mature people know how to calibrate their expectations based on what you're able to offer.
posted by headnsouth at 10:22 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I don't think there is necessarily anything to fix. The Buddha, 2600 years ago, identified a fundamental undercurrent of alienation running through human experience. By virtue of having a sense of self, we separate ourselves from others. His antidote was to cultivate a sense of love and connected-ness to ourselves, others, and the universe. I've explored this path with some success. Maybe you are just resonating a little more with this fundamental characteristic of being human?
posted by Captain Chesapeake at 10:27 AM on January 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by Captain Chesapeake at 10:27 AM on January 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
mental health stuff including treatment-refractory depression, anxiety, Asperger's,
Yes, I'd agree that a lot of this stuff is just a part of being human, and our particular hangups are what make us unique. I can completely relate to what you're saying, and in my case it's because I think I'm a little Asperger-y. I don't feel part of groups, I get mad that I don't feel part of groups, but then when I'm in a group I get bored and wonder why they're not talking about things that are more interesting to me. If only they would, then I could be part of a group! Oh, right. I recognize this in myself, and sometimes I work on it, sometimes I accept it. We have have things we can and can't do, life would be pretty boring otherwise.
posted by Melismata at 10:41 AM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes, I'd agree that a lot of this stuff is just a part of being human, and our particular hangups are what make us unique. I can completely relate to what you're saying, and in my case it's because I think I'm a little Asperger-y. I don't feel part of groups, I get mad that I don't feel part of groups, but then when I'm in a group I get bored and wonder why they're not talking about things that are more interesting to me. If only they would, then I could be part of a group! Oh, right. I recognize this in myself, and sometimes I work on it, sometimes I accept it. We have have things we can and can't do, life would be pretty boring otherwise.
posted by Melismata at 10:41 AM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'd like to chime in as saying I have always felt this way as well. Even with my closest group of friends in high school, to my best adult friends who are like sisters to me, there's always seems like I'm not quite right. I never registered to vote, as I've always felt 'stateless' and never quite involved enough to have a stake. I'm not married and have no children, so perhaps building your own clan might change things. But I also think it's tied to standards, and expectations. Becoming more ok with people's actions and my reactions to them has helped a lot in not feeling like missing out on more.
posted by sweetmarie at 10:59 AM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sweetmarie at 10:59 AM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah I don't think this is a pathology as much as it is a personality trait. Some folks are straight-up loners, some folks are EVERYBODY'S BESTIE and some folks are in the middle, in the group but not of the group.
My pet theory is that for folks who are in the middle, sometimes it's just because the group they COULD "belong to" doesn't exist, or is very small or very scattered...for whatever reason, they just aren't likely to stumble into it at college or in a workplace or whatever. If they DO stumble into it, though, they have no problem feeling like they belong.
FWIW, I spent most of my life on the peripheries of social groups, and one-on-one I still feel like I am not particularly well-connected with anyone. But I have, accidentally, found a "tribe" in which I very securely belong. (The group is rooted in my profession, which attracts a certain "type" that I absolutely fit into.) But here's the thing: it does not assure that every individual member of that group likes me or relates to me or wants to be my friend. People still leave--they leave the group, or the state, or the job-- and people might still have a falling out with me specifically.
So I think it might be best to approach finding your "group" as a separate quest from finding your friends. Pop culture and TV shows make it look like they're one and the same, but I don't think they are. And to remember that to some extent, every friendship changes and most of them end at some point--this isn't a thing to fear and avoid at all costs, it's just a natural part of the situation.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:06 AM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
My pet theory is that for folks who are in the middle, sometimes it's just because the group they COULD "belong to" doesn't exist, or is very small or very scattered...for whatever reason, they just aren't likely to stumble into it at college or in a workplace or whatever. If they DO stumble into it, though, they have no problem feeling like they belong.
FWIW, I spent most of my life on the peripheries of social groups, and one-on-one I still feel like I am not particularly well-connected with anyone. But I have, accidentally, found a "tribe" in which I very securely belong. (The group is rooted in my profession, which attracts a certain "type" that I absolutely fit into.) But here's the thing: it does not assure that every individual member of that group likes me or relates to me or wants to be my friend. People still leave--they leave the group, or the state, or the job-- and people might still have a falling out with me specifically.
So I think it might be best to approach finding your "group" as a separate quest from finding your friends. Pop culture and TV shows make it look like they're one and the same, but I don't think they are. And to remember that to some extent, every friendship changes and most of them end at some point--this isn't a thing to fear and avoid at all costs, it's just a natural part of the situation.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:06 AM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Presumably part of your therapy has to do with looking for the roots of this? Do you remember experiencing key traumatic moments of rejection? Or witnessing violent rejection of others? What is your family like? Are your parents loners? How did you grow up?
I've found that my own feelings of outsiderness have diminished and/or become less painful through these things:
1. Thinking about and addressing (to myself or in therapy) some key instances of rejection from my youth.
2. Reflecting on how I was socialized when I grew up in a loner family. I feel a little better about being a loner (although, like you, a "loner" with a lot of friends) because somehow understanding it as very deeply socialized into me makes it seem normal rather than a problem.
3. Being needed. I've had some friends, currently and in the past, who have really relied on me for periods of time, either emotionally or materially. Somehow this has eventually made me feel less alone.
4. Getting old. I'm resigned now, I guess.
5. Articulating my feelings to a friend. Not about her, but there was a real turning point where we had this conversation and I just told her "I find it hard to be close to people because I feel like if I get close to people, they will basically betray me for fun". And articulating that to an actual friend partially lifted the spell of that belief. I'm not saying that those are your magic words, but maybe being able to share more about this feeling to your friends might help?
posted by Frowner at 11:27 AM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've found that my own feelings of outsiderness have diminished and/or become less painful through these things:
1. Thinking about and addressing (to myself or in therapy) some key instances of rejection from my youth.
2. Reflecting on how I was socialized when I grew up in a loner family. I feel a little better about being a loner (although, like you, a "loner" with a lot of friends) because somehow understanding it as very deeply socialized into me makes it seem normal rather than a problem.
3. Being needed. I've had some friends, currently and in the past, who have really relied on me for periods of time, either emotionally or materially. Somehow this has eventually made me feel less alone.
4. Getting old. I'm resigned now, I guess.
5. Articulating my feelings to a friend. Not about her, but there was a real turning point where we had this conversation and I just told her "I find it hard to be close to people because I feel like if I get close to people, they will basically betray me for fun". And articulating that to an actual friend partially lifted the spell of that belief. I'm not saying that those are your magic words, but maybe being able to share more about this feeling to your friends might help?
posted by Frowner at 11:27 AM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Yes, I've felt this way, and continue to feel this way. In my case, I've been an outsider, factually, pretty much always. 2nd generation person, with complicated relationships with extended family; experienced some difficulty parsing dominant culture norms, early on; as a kid, was "overly sensitive", and not always as competent in negotiating group dynamics as I was in feeling their impact, or observing them - and I was stuck with some labels that proved unhelpful, as far as fitting in went; moved around a lot, all through my life; and although I did become socially anxious for various reasons (mostly treated, thankfully) and I'm not very shy (by temperament, at least), I'm probably more inclined to reflection than action... etc. etc.)
My way of coping with that, historically, has been to flit between groups, each of which met different needs, and to invest more in one-on-one relationships. Also, with time, I've just lowered expectations around what others can/should offer (because work and family obligations, etc. just take up time and energy for most, past 35 or so). I am (or have become) decentish at finding and sometimes creating passing moments of connection, and appreciating them where they happen. Is that entirely satisfying, not always. Music, art, literature, and films have helped me feel less alone, on occasion, through a sense of shared recognition of a certain experience or way of feeling. Sometimes, I'm just stuck feeling alone, and I wait, and it passes.
For a long time, I romanticized the idea of a close, connected community. I wanted so much to live in a little village somewhere - some place with strong and beautiful traditions, full of people who knew and accepted who I was, who just gave me a place. What I've heard from many who grew up with that kind of thing is that they felt choked, and were punished in big or small ways for difference. (Some people loved it... imo, they're people whose natural way of being easily fell within the norms given to them.)
(There have been times I was temporarily accepted into a community of like-ish-minded people; tbh, that's usually happened by way of dating someone who had an established group of friends. I was given a place just because of my role as girlfriend. [I miss some of my exes' friends way more than I do the exes.] Obviously, not a strategy one can really lean on or plan.)
I hope you don't mind my making assumptions, but my sense of you, based on what I've gleaned from your presence here, is that you're sort of in the long tail, statistically. Super smart, observant, sensitive. A bit cautious, maybe (which I understand, I'm a bit like that, too). I think there are just fewer people who are going to be able to get you. I think, just keep trying to find your people - knowing there will always be some difference between you (because there always is, we all just differ), and accepting this. And pushing yourself past your comfort zone, and taking some risks. (One way to find at least some of your people, though, imo/e, is through creative work.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:57 PM on January 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
My way of coping with that, historically, has been to flit between groups, each of which met different needs, and to invest more in one-on-one relationships. Also, with time, I've just lowered expectations around what others can/should offer (because work and family obligations, etc. just take up time and energy for most, past 35 or so). I am (or have become) decentish at finding and sometimes creating passing moments of connection, and appreciating them where they happen. Is that entirely satisfying, not always. Music, art, literature, and films have helped me feel less alone, on occasion, through a sense of shared recognition of a certain experience or way of feeling. Sometimes, I'm just stuck feeling alone, and I wait, and it passes.
For a long time, I romanticized the idea of a close, connected community. I wanted so much to live in a little village somewhere - some place with strong and beautiful traditions, full of people who knew and accepted who I was, who just gave me a place. What I've heard from many who grew up with that kind of thing is that they felt choked, and were punished in big or small ways for difference. (Some people loved it... imo, they're people whose natural way of being easily fell within the norms given to them.)
(There have been times I was temporarily accepted into a community of like-ish-minded people; tbh, that's usually happened by way of dating someone who had an established group of friends. I was given a place just because of my role as girlfriend. [I miss some of my exes' friends way more than I do the exes.] Obviously, not a strategy one can really lean on or plan.)
I hope you don't mind my making assumptions, but my sense of you, based on what I've gleaned from your presence here, is that you're sort of in the long tail, statistically. Super smart, observant, sensitive. A bit cautious, maybe (which I understand, I'm a bit like that, too). I think there are just fewer people who are going to be able to get you. I think, just keep trying to find your people - knowing there will always be some difference between you (because there always is, we all just differ), and accepting this. And pushing yourself past your comfort zone, and taking some risks. (One way to find at least some of your people, though, imo/e, is through creative work.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:57 PM on January 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
I feel the same exact way and I attribute it to being on the autism spectrum. I've had an almost textbook Aspie female life and feeling like an outsider seems to be part and parcel of it.
Luckily I have found some few people over the years that I've felt connected to, but it's usually other people who aren't neurotypical, and the connections are one-on-one. I'm very much in my own head most of the time.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 2:06 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Luckily I have found some few people over the years that I've felt connected to, but it's usually other people who aren't neurotypical, and the connections are one-on-one. I'm very much in my own head most of the time.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 2:06 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Have you experienced this, do you know where it comes from, and how do you change it?
This is how I am. People are often surprised to know that I have a great deal of ... it's not anxiety or awkwardness so much as an "I have no tribe" feeling. That is, I fit in a lot of places, but only part way. So I'm techie for a librarian, librarian-y for techies, sort of urban for rural folks (where I live) but waaaay too rural for urban folks, etc etc. And I decided that it's just my role in life. I don't always love it but I'm usually accepting of it.
I think some of it is chemical, that there's some sort of "I BELONG" chemical because I've taken drugs and had that feeling (it's painful to even think/talk about it sometimes because I stopped doing those drugs for very good reasons but I can remember belonging, if briefly) just show up and stay and then fade. So my feeling from that expereince is that if it's just a story my brain is telling me, I can sort of ignore it, just like I ignore my brain when it says it can't sleep or when it says I am stupid.
I think healthy communities need people who are ALL IN about things and really feel part of a thing all the time no matter what. And they also need people who can move among and between communities so that ideas pollinate and germinate and there is growth and change and movement. So that's me the awkward bumblebee, and maybe you are too? I'm not sure there is anything that can be done but I think there's a group of us.
posted by jessamyn at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
This is how I am. People are often surprised to know that I have a great deal of ... it's not anxiety or awkwardness so much as an "I have no tribe" feeling. That is, I fit in a lot of places, but only part way. So I'm techie for a librarian, librarian-y for techies, sort of urban for rural folks (where I live) but waaaay too rural for urban folks, etc etc. And I decided that it's just my role in life. I don't always love it but I'm usually accepting of it.
I think some of it is chemical, that there's some sort of "I BELONG" chemical because I've taken drugs and had that feeling (it's painful to even think/talk about it sometimes because I stopped doing those drugs for very good reasons but I can remember belonging, if briefly) just show up and stay and then fade. So my feeling from that expereince is that if it's just a story my brain is telling me, I can sort of ignore it, just like I ignore my brain when it says it can't sleep or when it says I am stupid.
I think healthy communities need people who are ALL IN about things and really feel part of a thing all the time no matter what. And they also need people who can move among and between communities so that ideas pollinate and germinate and there is growth and change and movement. So that's me the awkward bumblebee, and maybe you are too? I'm not sure there is anything that can be done but I think there's a group of us.
posted by jessamyn at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
I hope it helps you feel better to hear that others feel this way too. I'll chime in and say I'm definitely another one of these people who experiences this. As an adult, I've always felt like I'm kind of sort of part of groups but never fully in them. It's like I orbit the outsides, and it's hard to find people I truly feel are my kin, you know? Based on what I've read about this in psychology books and articles, it's not necessarily an indicator that means there's something wrong with you or any of us. Our sense of belongingness seems to be an aspect of our personalities, and also is affected by outsiders we have no control over, our experiences, and also available groups and social connections and, how we grew up.
For example, I have never really had team spirit of any kind for schools I went to, or any national sports teams. I've never had the Friends or Sex in the City group of friends. Etc. For awhile, I thought this sense of not belonging to larger groups was a huge problem and felt really sad about it but over time I've come to realize that this is just a part of how I am, and that it's okay to feel this way. You can't magically force yourself to have that amazing idolized community support, you know? All you can do is meet people and form connections (or not) in a natural, unforced way.
It usually takes me at least five or ten years before I stop thinking of people as acquaintances and really consider them friends
I read that statement you made and was like, wow I feel exactly the same way, this person gets it! It takes me awhile to really consider people as friends too. I think it's largely because it really is hard to find people who are dependable, and willing to put in the effort to be anything more than a shallow superficial friend. We all want different things out of our friendships, and I wonder if you are like me in that, you want your friendships to be deeper and more meaningful, and that just takes time.
Anyway, my advice would be, talk to your therapist about this if you want, but it's not necessarily a bad thing that has to be changed. More like, you accept this thing about you, and move on with your life. Being human means that we sometimes feel negative emotions, and I think this is just one of them.
P.S. I am not a psychologist or anything, so I could be completely wrong about the studies on this - someone else hopefully can correct me if I'm totally off-base here.
posted by FireFountain at 4:31 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
For example, I have never really had team spirit of any kind for schools I went to, or any national sports teams. I've never had the Friends or Sex in the City group of friends. Etc. For awhile, I thought this sense of not belonging to larger groups was a huge problem and felt really sad about it but over time I've come to realize that this is just a part of how I am, and that it's okay to feel this way. You can't magically force yourself to have that amazing idolized community support, you know? All you can do is meet people and form connections (or not) in a natural, unforced way.
It usually takes me at least five or ten years before I stop thinking of people as acquaintances and really consider them friends
I read that statement you made and was like, wow I feel exactly the same way, this person gets it! It takes me awhile to really consider people as friends too. I think it's largely because it really is hard to find people who are dependable, and willing to put in the effort to be anything more than a shallow superficial friend. We all want different things out of our friendships, and I wonder if you are like me in that, you want your friendships to be deeper and more meaningful, and that just takes time.
Anyway, my advice would be, talk to your therapist about this if you want, but it's not necessarily a bad thing that has to be changed. More like, you accept this thing about you, and move on with your life. Being human means that we sometimes feel negative emotions, and I think this is just one of them.
P.S. I am not a psychologist or anything, so I could be completely wrong about the studies on this - someone else hopefully can correct me if I'm totally off-base here.
posted by FireFountain at 4:31 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: These comments are great. Thanks, all.
Thread needs Emily Dickinson:
I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you – Nobody – too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell! they'd advertise – you know!
posted by thetortoise at 6:02 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thread needs Emily Dickinson:
I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you – Nobody – too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell! they'd advertise – you know!
posted by thetortoise at 6:02 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I feel this way too. I am estranged from some of my family, I had no interest in attending class reunions, didn't feel like an "alumni" of my college even though I graduated, am not interested in sports, am not religious, and I am not good at keeping in touch with people once our life paths diverge. I'm afraid I don't have any advice to give because I find this a bit problematic in my own life. I hope it helps you just to know that there are a lot of people out here who feel similarly.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:14 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:14 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh hello my tribe, how's it going.
Count me in as another one of the "I never really knew what it's like to belong!" people. Like cotton dress sock, I've always been the outsider; in many ways, it defines who I am and how I travel through the world, mostly without my choice in the matter. I've been long fascinated by secret societies and sororities and that kinda thing precisely because I want to know what it's like to be in a group where everyone supports each other and you're All In This Together (I am aware that the reality isn't always the case).
A lot of people attribute this to introvertedness, but I'm pretty much an extrovert, and it can be frustrating sometimes being an extroverted lone ranger. Like, I thrive on human connection, but I don't want to be subsumed by it, y'know? And identity/same-label groups are just more frustrating for me than anything because my outsider-ness gets more stark. In a group where I'm openly the "different one", at least that's upfront. In a group where I'm supposed to be part of the same demographic? It's alienating, because of the small differences that suddenly matter a lot.
What's helped for me is two things:
1. My ragtag group of chosen family. I have a lot of friends of various closeness levels, but there's a handful that are really close, like Emergency Access To My LastPass level close. They don't always have a ton to do with each other (though many of them have met), and they're not always part of the same identity groups as I am, but they've proven to me that they're sticking with me through thick and thin.
2. Getting involved with a creative project. Your castmates for a play or your volunteer group for a project can provide that intense sense of belonging though the reverse culture shock once it's all over and everyone parts ways can be brutal. But at least, it's a small way of getting that feeling.
I would also take jessamyn's bridge-builder tendencies into account. I really enjoy pairing up people I know from different circles and seeing them hit it off - that's an advantage folk like us have, that we get to know a very diverse range of people, and can make really interesting connections.
posted by divabat at 11:05 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Count me in as another one of the "I never really knew what it's like to belong!" people. Like cotton dress sock, I've always been the outsider; in many ways, it defines who I am and how I travel through the world, mostly without my choice in the matter. I've been long fascinated by secret societies and sororities and that kinda thing precisely because I want to know what it's like to be in a group where everyone supports each other and you're All In This Together (I am aware that the reality isn't always the case).
A lot of people attribute this to introvertedness, but I'm pretty much an extrovert, and it can be frustrating sometimes being an extroverted lone ranger. Like, I thrive on human connection, but I don't want to be subsumed by it, y'know? And identity/same-label groups are just more frustrating for me than anything because my outsider-ness gets more stark. In a group where I'm openly the "different one", at least that's upfront. In a group where I'm supposed to be part of the same demographic? It's alienating, because of the small differences that suddenly matter a lot.
What's helped for me is two things:
1. My ragtag group of chosen family. I have a lot of friends of various closeness levels, but there's a handful that are really close, like Emergency Access To My LastPass level close. They don't always have a ton to do with each other (though many of them have met), and they're not always part of the same identity groups as I am, but they've proven to me that they're sticking with me through thick and thin.
2. Getting involved with a creative project. Your castmates for a play or your volunteer group for a project can provide that intense sense of belonging though the reverse culture shock once it's all over and everyone parts ways can be brutal. But at least, it's a small way of getting that feeling.
I would also take jessamyn's bridge-builder tendencies into account. I really enjoy pairing up people I know from different circles and seeing them hit it off - that's an advantage folk like us have, that we get to know a very diverse range of people, and can make really interesting connections.
posted by divabat at 11:05 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Can't pass this by as I wanted to post this same question many times - and it's nice to know there are other people out there feeling the same... not that I'm glad you feel like outsiders, folks.
I've thought a lot about where this thing comes from. I came up with these ideas - maybe you'll find some of them helpful.
1. Although I'd love to be an integral part of a group, I really value my ability to look at a situation objectively and make my own decisions. I like doing things my way, even little ones. This is hard to do if you fully embrace your group's views and values and decisions. This might concern some serious ethical decisions, but it can also be about trivia. Maybe there is a selfish streak in there - like, I want to be comfortable and I don't see why following a group's decision has to be more important. A simple example: I go shopping with a few friends, and they want to visit some shops I don't really like. I don't want to waste time and I want to get my shopping done. So I tell them I'll meet them later and leave. Nobody is hurt by this, of course - but I've just deprived myself of the bonding experience of commenting how great a friend looks in that red skirt.
2. Building on the previous point - fulfilling a task is, a lot of the time, more important to me than social rituals. For example, I tend to view conversation as a means of sharing information, not some kind of social grooming (which, as some anthropologists argue, it is). My therapist suggested I look at it this way: when you're holding someone's hand, you are not really doing anything productive. You're just sharing an emotion. It can be the same with words.
3. Again, some science: I can't remember where I read this (but I'll find the quote if someone really wants it), but, apparently, being an outsider can be hereditary, somehow coded in the genes. YMMV, but, looking at my family history on both sides, I realized I had no chance. My dad never had close friends aside from his sister, despite being an extravert and the soul of the party. My mom once told me she preferred to cross to the other side of the street to avoid chatting with people - and she'd been the president of a really big society back at school. Same thing with most of my relatives.
4. I'm very open to different points of view. This is not a bad thing, but, again, it does make it hard to identify with one group's view and promote it. I almost completely lack the "us-them" mentality. I don't enjoy team sports (I mean, I can, but just for the sake of the game, not because I support a team) or getting into fiery debates. This contributes to always being the odd one out. I deal with it by having lots of acquaintances and clubs with different interests - if one group can't understand me, another will.
5. I can easily entertain myself on my own. I'm a bookworm, so I usually have a book with me. So if I'm sitting alone in a cafe, there is always something (very interesting) to do. Or, if I go for a walk/on a trip and take my camera with me, I really don't need any company. I'm just fine with going to a party alone and finding company there. A lot of people don't get this - they really need someone to be with them to enjoy an outing or feel comfortable.
6. I like observing. This is just how it works for me - first, I need to observe people and form an impression of them. This appears to be a bad strategy, especially when you're in a new group - it's better to get out there and engage with people while the group hasn't formed yet. If you do it late, you'll be left outside, like in musical chairs.
Some people here have already mentioned all this belonging and togetherness probably looks better from the outside than it really is. I guess it's true. I used to get really upset I didn't belong anywhere and, if I left (a party, for example), nobody would be very upset. When I said this to my therapist, he said, so what? It doesn't mean you can't contribute and have a good time.
What I'm learning to do is just let this go. Of course, it is quite scary to think that, one day, I might end up old and crippled and with no-one to give me a glass of water, but then, I do have friends and family, so that's an irrational fear. I've lost some very dear people (as in, they died), and I've learnt nothing lasts forever, and that's ok. You just need to cherish what you have here and now. If you're feeling a connection with someone at this particular moment, enjoy it. It might not last, but so what?
Also, sometimes this belonging just forms accidentally. Back in college, I went on a trip with some people I'd never met before, and we took to each other straight away. I'd never felt so included. We are still good friends. The same kind of accidental bonding happened when, on my first day of class, a professor told us we had to find partners for a project - right now. I made a snap decision to ask a girl who looked like she might be fun, and she and her boyfriend turned out to be the best partners I could've asked for. Still good acquaintances.
As divabat suggested above, getting into a project with other people helps, too. I find it can be any kind of project - I do some volunteering, for example, and I sometimes find this sense of connection there.
And one last point - my therapist once suggested I imagine I have a connection, a relationship with people when I walk into a room. Because a lot of it is really in my head - like, oh, I'm an outsider, I don't belong with any of these people... No, you can just tell yourself these people can be your friends, smile, and talk to them. People really respond to such attitude, and it becomes easier to form deeper connections.
posted by Guelder at 6:04 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've thought a lot about where this thing comes from. I came up with these ideas - maybe you'll find some of them helpful.
1. Although I'd love to be an integral part of a group, I really value my ability to look at a situation objectively and make my own decisions. I like doing things my way, even little ones. This is hard to do if you fully embrace your group's views and values and decisions. This might concern some serious ethical decisions, but it can also be about trivia. Maybe there is a selfish streak in there - like, I want to be comfortable and I don't see why following a group's decision has to be more important. A simple example: I go shopping with a few friends, and they want to visit some shops I don't really like. I don't want to waste time and I want to get my shopping done. So I tell them I'll meet them later and leave. Nobody is hurt by this, of course - but I've just deprived myself of the bonding experience of commenting how great a friend looks in that red skirt.
2. Building on the previous point - fulfilling a task is, a lot of the time, more important to me than social rituals. For example, I tend to view conversation as a means of sharing information, not some kind of social grooming (which, as some anthropologists argue, it is). My therapist suggested I look at it this way: when you're holding someone's hand, you are not really doing anything productive. You're just sharing an emotion. It can be the same with words.
3. Again, some science: I can't remember where I read this (but I'll find the quote if someone really wants it), but, apparently, being an outsider can be hereditary, somehow coded in the genes. YMMV, but, looking at my family history on both sides, I realized I had no chance. My dad never had close friends aside from his sister, despite being an extravert and the soul of the party. My mom once told me she preferred to cross to the other side of the street to avoid chatting with people - and she'd been the president of a really big society back at school. Same thing with most of my relatives.
4. I'm very open to different points of view. This is not a bad thing, but, again, it does make it hard to identify with one group's view and promote it. I almost completely lack the "us-them" mentality. I don't enjoy team sports (I mean, I can, but just for the sake of the game, not because I support a team) or getting into fiery debates. This contributes to always being the odd one out. I deal with it by having lots of acquaintances and clubs with different interests - if one group can't understand me, another will.
5. I can easily entertain myself on my own. I'm a bookworm, so I usually have a book with me. So if I'm sitting alone in a cafe, there is always something (very interesting) to do. Or, if I go for a walk/on a trip and take my camera with me, I really don't need any company. I'm just fine with going to a party alone and finding company there. A lot of people don't get this - they really need someone to be with them to enjoy an outing or feel comfortable.
6. I like observing. This is just how it works for me - first, I need to observe people and form an impression of them. This appears to be a bad strategy, especially when you're in a new group - it's better to get out there and engage with people while the group hasn't formed yet. If you do it late, you'll be left outside, like in musical chairs.
Some people here have already mentioned all this belonging and togetherness probably looks better from the outside than it really is. I guess it's true. I used to get really upset I didn't belong anywhere and, if I left (a party, for example), nobody would be very upset. When I said this to my therapist, he said, so what? It doesn't mean you can't contribute and have a good time.
What I'm learning to do is just let this go. Of course, it is quite scary to think that, one day, I might end up old and crippled and with no-one to give me a glass of water, but then, I do have friends and family, so that's an irrational fear. I've lost some very dear people (as in, they died), and I've learnt nothing lasts forever, and that's ok. You just need to cherish what you have here and now. If you're feeling a connection with someone at this particular moment, enjoy it. It might not last, but so what?
Also, sometimes this belonging just forms accidentally. Back in college, I went on a trip with some people I'd never met before, and we took to each other straight away. I'd never felt so included. We are still good friends. The same kind of accidental bonding happened when, on my first day of class, a professor told us we had to find partners for a project - right now. I made a snap decision to ask a girl who looked like she might be fun, and she and her boyfriend turned out to be the best partners I could've asked for. Still good acquaintances.
As divabat suggested above, getting into a project with other people helps, too. I find it can be any kind of project - I do some volunteering, for example, and I sometimes find this sense of connection there.
And one last point - my therapist once suggested I imagine I have a connection, a relationship with people when I walk into a room. Because a lot of it is really in my head - like, oh, I'm an outsider, I don't belong with any of these people... No, you can just tell yourself these people can be your friends, smile, and talk to them. People really respond to such attitude, and it becomes easier to form deeper connections.
posted by Guelder at 6:04 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Have you read any of Brene Brown's stuff on vulnerability, or seen her TED talk? You might want to check out her book Daring Greatly. I suggest this because I get the sense from your question and from the answers you've favorited that at the heart of your feeling of being an outsider may be a fear of opening up to people and letting them be close to you.
posted by chickenmagazine at 11:59 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by chickenmagazine at 11:59 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think Jessamyn is thinking of oxytocin, which, along with dopamine, is a key element in forming social bonds. The way your OXTR gene encodes the docking protein also affects how it functions for you.
So yeah, it could be a neurochemical / genetic thing. It could also be a mental thing. Or both. At this point in your life, however it started, it is an ingrained habit. You feel like an outsider because on some level you believe that you are. But as many others have pointed out, this is not uncommon, and also not a terrible thing.
I used to worry that friends would cut me off if I did something wrong or embarrassing. Then I realized, my friends do dumb stuff sometimes too, and I don't hate them for it, or want to never see them again -- I realized they felt the same way about me. It was a huge weight off my mind. It enabled me to become a much better friend because I wasn't so nervous around them all the time.
But I still feel like an outsider when I'm not with my close friends, especially in groups. So I've tried to channel this into something positive: being a leader, a social bridge-builder, and a public speaker. I may never feel like part of a crowd, but I do fine being up in front of one. I did a lot of theater when I was younger, and I think it helped me a lot. Maybe you could try something like that as well? Perhaps there is a community theater that you could join. You might really like it...maybe you'll find your tribe there :)
posted by ananci at 1:08 AM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
So yeah, it could be a neurochemical / genetic thing. It could also be a mental thing. Or both. At this point in your life, however it started, it is an ingrained habit. You feel like an outsider because on some level you believe that you are. But as many others have pointed out, this is not uncommon, and also not a terrible thing.
I used to worry that friends would cut me off if I did something wrong or embarrassing. Then I realized, my friends do dumb stuff sometimes too, and I don't hate them for it, or want to never see them again -- I realized they felt the same way about me. It was a huge weight off my mind. It enabled me to become a much better friend because I wasn't so nervous around them all the time.
But I still feel like an outsider when I'm not with my close friends, especially in groups. So I've tried to channel this into something positive: being a leader, a social bridge-builder, and a public speaker. I may never feel like part of a crowd, but I do fine being up in front of one. I did a lot of theater when I was younger, and I think it helped me a lot. Maybe you could try something like that as well? Perhaps there is a community theater that you could join. You might really like it...maybe you'll find your tribe there :)
posted by ananci at 1:08 AM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Similar feelings over here. One thing that really helped me understand and change my sense of not-belonging in groups, and all the paranoid/mistrustful projections that go along with that, was participating in process/personal development groups as part of my psychotherapy training.
I learned what I brought to groups from my family of origin, which is everyone's "original group" that sets the tone for how we encounter groups and belonging in later life. I learned, for instance, that I had a hard time feeling I belonged because as the family scapegoat, my job was to be the one who doesn't belong; also because my parents were people who didn't have any real friends themselves and therefore couldn't model belonging for me.
I also learned that everybody else brings their *own* baggage of anxiety and desire/ambivalence about belonging to a group situation, which completely defused my fear of groups. I learned that my sense of connection and belonging increased in direct proportion to the amount I was able to risk being vulnerable with others. I wouldn't say I'm an extrovert now, but that introvert feeling of continual exhaustion that comes from expending energy to protect and mask myself in all non-private social settings has waned to a bare minimum, because I'm not so frightened of the whole goddamn world.
Process/PD groups are not readily available outside psychotherapy training, which I think is a real shame, because they can be hugely transformative. But you could enhance your understanding of your own relationship with groups by reading about family systems and roles (Virginia Satir and Murray Bowen are good on this) and by seeking out a therapeutic or support group if one is available to you.
posted by stuck on an island at 5:18 AM on January 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I learned what I brought to groups from my family of origin, which is everyone's "original group" that sets the tone for how we encounter groups and belonging in later life. I learned, for instance, that I had a hard time feeling I belonged because as the family scapegoat, my job was to be the one who doesn't belong; also because my parents were people who didn't have any real friends themselves and therefore couldn't model belonging for me.
I also learned that everybody else brings their *own* baggage of anxiety and desire/ambivalence about belonging to a group situation, which completely defused my fear of groups. I learned that my sense of connection and belonging increased in direct proportion to the amount I was able to risk being vulnerable with others. I wouldn't say I'm an extrovert now, but that introvert feeling of continual exhaustion that comes from expending energy to protect and mask myself in all non-private social settings has waned to a bare minimum, because I'm not so frightened of the whole goddamn world.
Process/PD groups are not readily available outside psychotherapy training, which I think is a real shame, because they can be hugely transformative. But you could enhance your understanding of your own relationship with groups by reading about family systems and roles (Virginia Satir and Murray Bowen are good on this) and by seeking out a therapeutic or support group if one is available to you.
posted by stuck on an island at 5:18 AM on January 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: FYI-- I marked answers as "best" that rung especially true to my personal situation, but there are loads of great answers here. Thank you!
posted by thetortoise at 1:42 PM on January 26, 2016
posted by thetortoise at 1:42 PM on January 26, 2016
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Well, you're definitely not alone in this feeling. You just don't get to see the other people like you because they're not hanging out with you (and they may be geographically distant, not joiners in general,etc.). People like you and your ilk are almost by definition hard to find or discover, but they (we) are out there, and most of us wonder about it like you do.
posted by amtho at 9:43 AM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]