It is a wonderful day in the neighborhood: Minneapolis St Paul
January 14, 2016 4:43 PM Subscribe
Planning to move to Minneapolis St Paul and would rather pick the best neighborhoods to look into from afar (snowflakes inside) and would also like to figure out the transportation system so that I still be car free if possible.
Quite a while ago, I asked this question (ie, where can I live outside NYC with desired criteria) and Minneapolis came up as a suggestion. For various reasons, I think it's the best match for now, and I plan to move there this summer, stay in a hotel/and quickly grab a place to live, but I'm not quite certain as to what neighborhoods/places would meet my snowflake list and where I should concentrate my search?
I've gone through old Minneapolis/St Paul threads, and used other websites, and I'm still overwhelmed because I can't figure out the details of what's on the ground.
Does anyone have recommendations that would this some of these criteria and recommend parts of town that I should check out?
- Preferable rent range: okay with up to 700-900 (even for studio), would prefer to not exceed $1000. Using Zillow to get an idea of rents/neighborhoods, if there is a better website for that area, please let me know.
-Biking, biking, biking: I really like biking, ideally ~50 miles (or even a 10-mile rail trail), but I'm terrified of biking in the street (although that might be NYC streets here). Google maps has been phenomenal for finding where you can bike, but I can't figure out rail trail vs street. So are there neighborhoods right on top of rail trails (that extend out in many directions for 50 miles or more?), please point....
-A park to walk, run, walk.
-(I haven't had a car for years/would like to stay this way). Right on top of easy public transportation (this is also where I've been a google fail...I can see that there is a light rail, I found articles suggesting uber, and google maps shows bus routes) - but I'd like to walk outside, be able to grab transportation 24 hours a day and not stand in the snow for an hour. (I can't figure out what the transportation is like even with various links - as in does the light rail run 24 hours a day? If public transportation stops at 10 PM, is it easy to grab a taxi downtown, etc.? I'd like to think about this when picking a place to live.)
-Be able to walk to everything - a cookie at 10 PM if so desired. Since I have no idea where things are, if I can be on top of museums or theaters for plays, that would be cool (might be unrealistic).
-Safety. Some friends that live 50 miles away from Minneapolis have told me that some neighborhoods are not safe? I did find these maps which shows gunfire by times of year and is this the best way to go about this? Or are most neighborhoods safe?
Any other available resources to pick neighborhoods?
As always, thank you
Quite a while ago, I asked this question (ie, where can I live outside NYC with desired criteria) and Minneapolis came up as a suggestion. For various reasons, I think it's the best match for now, and I plan to move there this summer, stay in a hotel/and quickly grab a place to live, but I'm not quite certain as to what neighborhoods/places would meet my snowflake list and where I should concentrate my search?
I've gone through old Minneapolis/St Paul threads, and used other websites, and I'm still overwhelmed because I can't figure out the details of what's on the ground.
Does anyone have recommendations that would this some of these criteria and recommend parts of town that I should check out?
- Preferable rent range: okay with up to 700-900 (even for studio), would prefer to not exceed $1000. Using Zillow to get an idea of rents/neighborhoods, if there is a better website for that area, please let me know.
-Biking, biking, biking: I really like biking, ideally ~50 miles (or even a 10-mile rail trail), but I'm terrified of biking in the street (although that might be NYC streets here). Google maps has been phenomenal for finding where you can bike, but I can't figure out rail trail vs street. So are there neighborhoods right on top of rail trails (that extend out in many directions for 50 miles or more?), please point....
-A park to walk, run, walk.
-(I haven't had a car for years/would like to stay this way). Right on top of easy public transportation (this is also where I've been a google fail...I can see that there is a light rail, I found articles suggesting uber, and google maps shows bus routes) - but I'd like to walk outside, be able to grab transportation 24 hours a day and not stand in the snow for an hour. (I can't figure out what the transportation is like even with various links - as in does the light rail run 24 hours a day? If public transportation stops at 10 PM, is it easy to grab a taxi downtown, etc.? I'd like to think about this when picking a place to live.)
-Be able to walk to everything - a cookie at 10 PM if so desired. Since I have no idea where things are, if I can be on top of museums or theaters for plays, that would be cool (might be unrealistic).
-Safety. Some friends that live 50 miles away from Minneapolis have told me that some neighborhoods are not safe? I did find these maps which shows gunfire by times of year and is this the best way to go about this? Or are most neighborhoods safe?
Any other available resources to pick neighborhoods?
As always, thank you
Best answer: There's lots of public transit, although not as much after about 1am. The light rail runs for much of the night but not all night. But honestly, it's super bikeable - I bike most places most of the year instead of fussing with the bus. It's not like NYC where the city is so darn big that you just can't bike everywhere - I probably wouldn't bike from remote St Paul to downtown MPLS for funsies, but in general most of the stuff I want to do is less than six miles away.
I live in a "dangerous" neighborhood. It is not dangerous. I have walked and biked all over it alone at all hours of day and night (including walking home alone at 2am in six inch heels back in the day.) There's a lot of really racist dogwhistle stuff about Phillips and North MPLS that might seem plausible to your friends because they don't live here.
To be "right on top of" plays and museums you would need either to live near/in downtown or else near Uptown. Uptown is a bit blandly gentrified these days, a lot of chains and the kind of independent bars and restaurants that none the less feel like chains. I do not recommend it, although you should bike around the lakes a lot, everyone does that, even me.
I guess my question is do you like it rustic or do you like it posh? If you like it rustic, you should check out Seward, Longfellow, Powderhorn. There's lots of duplexes, four flats, lots of 20s/30s construction. There's a co-op, a nice little independent bookstore (Boneshaker), decent coffee house, good pizza, some other restaurants all right there along Franklin, and the 2 bus runs over to Uptown, plus you can walk over to a really rather seedy but serviceable light rail stop and get downtown.
You might enjoy livingover Northeast - that might almost be the best place for you in MPLS. Lots of trendy restaurants, but not, you know, soulless, housing stock is charming, some cute little shopping areas scattered here and there and an easy bus or ride from both downtown and Dinkytown.
(One goes "over Northeast" and "over North".)
The Midtown Exchange apartments are right near me. Now, on the one hand, that stretch of Lake is a bit seedy, but on the other hand the Midtown Market shop/restaurant hing is great, Uncle Hugo's SF bookstore and Uncle Edgar's mystery bookstore are landmarks, there's fifty gazillion really tasty Mexican restaurants right there and you are literally right on the greenway, our nice crosstown bike trail. There's also a bike shop right there. If I were a young person with a reasonable income moving to MPLS, I would look into that.
A thing to remember about Minneapolis - some of the main streets (mine, for example, and Lake Street) can look a little run-down/demoralizing and then literally one block off of them the housing stock will be in much better shape, the street will be quiet, etc. A lot of the areas people perceive as "dangerous" are actually mostly nice, integrated, family-friendly neighborhoods (like mine) with a couple of busy, neglected main streets and a largely working class population. Actually, you might want to check out North if you are used to living in more integrated neighborhoods - I grew up around Chicago and honestly, North feels more lively, more like a real city, than a lot of parts of South.
Street biking here is very safe. I assume NYC is more like Chicago - aggressive cars, few quiet streets. Here, there are lots of quiet side streets and lots of new, wide bike lanes, some even sequestered. I don't bike on Lake or Cedar in South, but that's about it. You'll also find that you can use the greenway to get many places.
posted by Frowner at 5:40 PM on January 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
I live in a "dangerous" neighborhood. It is not dangerous. I have walked and biked all over it alone at all hours of day and night (including walking home alone at 2am in six inch heels back in the day.) There's a lot of really racist dogwhistle stuff about Phillips and North MPLS that might seem plausible to your friends because they don't live here.
To be "right on top of" plays and museums you would need either to live near/in downtown or else near Uptown. Uptown is a bit blandly gentrified these days, a lot of chains and the kind of independent bars and restaurants that none the less feel like chains. I do not recommend it, although you should bike around the lakes a lot, everyone does that, even me.
I guess my question is do you like it rustic or do you like it posh? If you like it rustic, you should check out Seward, Longfellow, Powderhorn. There's lots of duplexes, four flats, lots of 20s/30s construction. There's a co-op, a nice little independent bookstore (Boneshaker), decent coffee house, good pizza, some other restaurants all right there along Franklin, and the 2 bus runs over to Uptown, plus you can walk over to a really rather seedy but serviceable light rail stop and get downtown.
You might enjoy living
(One goes "over Northeast" and "over North".)
The Midtown Exchange apartments are right near me. Now, on the one hand, that stretch of Lake is a bit seedy, but on the other hand the Midtown Market shop/restaurant hing is great, Uncle Hugo's SF bookstore and Uncle Edgar's mystery bookstore are landmarks, there's fifty gazillion really tasty Mexican restaurants right there and you are literally right on the greenway, our nice crosstown bike trail. There's also a bike shop right there. If I were a young person with a reasonable income moving to MPLS, I would look into that.
A thing to remember about Minneapolis - some of the main streets (mine, for example, and Lake Street) can look a little run-down/demoralizing and then literally one block off of them the housing stock will be in much better shape, the street will be quiet, etc. A lot of the areas people perceive as "dangerous" are actually mostly nice, integrated, family-friendly neighborhoods (like mine) with a couple of busy, neglected main streets and a largely working class population. Actually, you might want to check out North if you are used to living in more integrated neighborhoods - I grew up around Chicago and honestly, North feels more lively, more like a real city, than a lot of parts of South.
Street biking here is very safe. I assume NYC is more like Chicago - aggressive cars, few quiet streets. Here, there are lots of quiet side streets and lots of new, wide bike lanes, some even sequestered. I don't bike on Lake or Cedar in South, but that's about it. You'll also find that you can use the greenway to get many places.
posted by Frowner at 5:40 PM on January 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: We live near the 46th Street Station of the blue line in Minneapolis.
I can bike to my job at the University five miles away using zero roads. The LRT runs practically all day, but there is some time in the early morning it doesn't run. It's so out of the normal time that I don't even know when that is.
I run around Lake Nokomis year round. The plow the parks at the same time as the streets.
The places where it's easy to walk to a 10pm cookie are slightly fewer, but they exist.
Museums and theatre abound and all are decently served by transit if you use buses. Twin Cities buses get a bad rap from people who never use them, but as someone who lived here car free for ages, they are pretty great. (I married into being a partial car owner.)
posted by advicepig at 5:41 PM on January 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I can bike to my job at the University five miles away using zero roads. The LRT runs practically all day, but there is some time in the early morning it doesn't run. It's so out of the normal time that I don't even know when that is.
I run around Lake Nokomis year round. The plow the parks at the same time as the streets.
The places where it's easy to walk to a 10pm cookie are slightly fewer, but they exist.
Museums and theatre abound and all are decently served by transit if you use buses. Twin Cities buses get a bad rap from people who never use them, but as someone who lived here car free for ages, they are pretty great. (I married into being a partial car owner.)
posted by advicepig at 5:41 PM on January 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
(What I'm trying to say by "integrated" is that lots of parts of MPLS are super white, and while I understand and and worry about, from a personal standpoint, that there's a lot of complicated politics around white people seeking out POC-majority or substantially integrated neighborhoods, I also enjoy living in my long-time neighborhood (about seventeen years here, now) precisely because it isn't a segregated white neighborhood, and not wanting to live in a very segregated place has always been a big thing for me.)
posted by Frowner at 5:45 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 5:45 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just read my answer and realized that I forgot to say that getting to a place where you can go for a 50 mile ride on paths rather than streets is easy. The Midtown Greenway cuts right through Minneapolis and connects to some great route well out into the suburbs. The Grand Rounds is a great 30 mile loop in Minneapolis. It has a short road section, but it's harmless. In St. Paul, Summit has a bike lane on the road but it's super nice. There's a ton of stuff along the river.
This really is the bike wonderland of the Midwest, if not the U.S.
posted by advicepig at 5:46 PM on January 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
This really is the bike wonderland of the Midwest, if not the U.S.
posted by advicepig at 5:46 PM on January 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
It is my opinion that most places in Minneapolis/St. Paul are pretty safe. I've lived in cities my entire adult life and have never really felt unsafe here. I had a job years ago that I used to walk home from, at 3 in the morning, through downtown Minneapolis and Loring Park and I never had one problem. YMMV depending on your comfort level with cities in general.
I'm not sure what rents are like right now but areas around Uptown/Wedge/Lowry Hill fit your criteria for lots of things to do, eat and see within walking distance. NE Minneapolis also, to a lesser degree (depending on which part of NE - the arts district probably has more things). Of those four, Uptown and Lowry Hill will be the most expensive. The Wedge area will be a little less expensive and NE will be the least so. Uptown/Lowry Hill is especially good because you're right on top of the chain of lakes , which is fantastic for biking and walking, as well as parks. NE Minneapolis also has a ton of parks, but they're a little smaller. It seems like there's a park on every block in NE. NE is my neighborhood.
It's always pretty easy to get taxis here and there's always Uber or Lyft nearby (if you use them).
I can't speak to the bike paths but we pretty consistently rank as one of the top biking cities.
I know virtually nothing about St. Paul except how to get lost there, so I'll leave that to someone else. Feel free to memail me if you have any other questions.
Welcome (when you get here)! Let us know when you arrive and we'll do a meetup! :)
posted by triggerfinger at 5:48 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure what rents are like right now but areas around Uptown/Wedge/Lowry Hill fit your criteria for lots of things to do, eat and see within walking distance. NE Minneapolis also, to a lesser degree (depending on which part of NE - the arts district probably has more things). Of those four, Uptown and Lowry Hill will be the most expensive. The Wedge area will be a little less expensive and NE will be the least so. Uptown/Lowry Hill is especially good because you're right on top of the chain of lakes , which is fantastic for biking and walking, as well as parks. NE Minneapolis also has a ton of parks, but they're a little smaller. It seems like there's a park on every block in NE. NE is my neighborhood.
It's always pretty easy to get taxis here and there's always Uber or Lyft nearby (if you use them).
I can't speak to the bike paths but we pretty consistently rank as one of the top biking cities.
I know virtually nothing about St. Paul except how to get lost there, so I'll leave that to someone else. Feel free to memail me if you have any other questions.
Welcome (when you get here)! Let us know when you arrive and we'll do a meetup! :)
posted by triggerfinger at 5:48 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Your first step is to figure out if you are a Minneapolis person or a St Paul person. There's a big difference!
I have no worries that once you figure out which city you like you will land in the right neighborhood. I think you will know it when you see it.
You have good suggestions here but thin on St Paul.
As far as biking - you will easily, easily find access to 50 mile routes.
The roads are very safe for biking and there are lots of trails that lead to more trails that lead to country roads. You could be in Iowa before you know it if you aren't paying attention.
People bike every street in every season. Bikes can legally take an entire lane. Lots of designated bike boulevards crisscross both cities.
posted by littlewater at 5:54 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have no worries that once you figure out which city you like you will land in the right neighborhood. I think you will know it when you see it.
You have good suggestions here but thin on St Paul.
As far as biking - you will easily, easily find access to 50 mile routes.
The roads are very safe for biking and there are lots of trails that lead to more trails that lead to country roads. You could be in Iowa before you know it if you aren't paying attention.
People bike every street in every season. Bikes can legally take an entire lane. Lots of designated bike boulevards crisscross both cities.
posted by littlewater at 5:54 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Also, you should definitely get someone to guide you around St. Paul. Every time I'm over there I'm always struck by how nice a lot of the housing stock is, and how there are a lot of "you turned right into this quiet, isolated little neighborhood full of cute houses that is somehow right next to a giant road but feels like a small town". St. Paul is far - that's why people don't move there if they want to spend a lot of time doing MPLS stuff, and most of the museums, theaters, etc are in MPLS. However, the green line goes along University to downtown St. Paul now, and that changes everything. If you lived sort of near the green line, you could bike/train to almost anywhere. (We have two lines, the green and the blue - the green connects the downtowns, the blue goes from MPLS to the airport.)
Oh, you have so much ahead of you! You simply must go to the fair, to the Mayday Parade, to Barebones, to Hard Times cafe, to the May Day Cafe, to a puppet show at Heart of the Beast....Also to Theodore Wirth park - you can get there on the grand round/greenway. And A Baker's Wife pastry shop - it is a fine thing of a morning to get up and go for a big bike ride and then get some pastries, even if it defeats the purpose a bit.
posted by Frowner at 5:57 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, you have so much ahead of you! You simply must go to the fair, to the Mayday Parade, to Barebones, to Hard Times cafe, to the May Day Cafe, to a puppet show at Heart of the Beast....Also to Theodore Wirth park - you can get there on the grand round/greenway. And A Baker's Wife pastry shop - it is a fine thing of a morning to get up and go for a big bike ride and then get some pastries, even if it defeats the purpose a bit.
posted by Frowner at 5:57 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, agree with Frowner on the dogwhistley stuff of some neighborhoods. Powderhorn and North Minneapolis in particular get really bad press. But when I was looking at houses a few years ago, I looked at a few places in each area and not only are the houses insanely inexpensive, but they're also gorgeous, and if they were picked up and placed in any other neighborhood just as they were, they would be 4x as expensive. I was looking at houses off Victory Parkway in North Minneapolis and they were beautiful and in perfect condition and so cheap I couldn't believe it.
Powderhorn has some HUGE old beautiful houses, many of which have been fully renovated, plus they have a huge park and the best Mayday Parade in the world, probably. People's perception of crime keeps them cheap, but like most other places, if you take reasonable precautions, you should be fine. Plus, I know a lot of people who live in these neighborhoods and my perception from talking to them is they're really neighborly and close-knit places. However, they're not as walking-distance close to lots of non-residential places, so this may be a moot point.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:04 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Powderhorn has some HUGE old beautiful houses, many of which have been fully renovated, plus they have a huge park and the best Mayday Parade in the world, probably. People's perception of crime keeps them cheap, but like most other places, if you take reasonable precautions, you should be fine. Plus, I know a lot of people who live in these neighborhoods and my perception from talking to them is they're really neighborly and close-knit places. However, they're not as walking-distance close to lots of non-residential places, so this may be a moot point.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:04 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, you may have seen it already, but here's a map that shows the larger areas of Minneapolis, as well as the smaller neighborhoods within so you can see where they all are in relation to each other. When I mentioned the Wedge area, I was referring to Whittier; in my mind Uptown is pretty much all of Calhoun-Isles (though probably officially only Cedar-Isles-Dean); and the arts district in NE is Marshall Terrace.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:16 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:16 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Congrats on your (kinda) decision to move to a mostly-really-great metro area.
I have not lived in MPLS, but I have multiple friends that live in the neighborhoods (Longfellow, Kingfield, etc.) south of the east/west artery of Lake St. These are cozy neighborhoods that feature mature trees, lots of bungalow style homes, and pockets of restaurants, coffee shops, etc. Rents struck me as being mostly in the range you specify. Lake itself has lots of food and retail options, and Uptown (the funky hipster/yuppie area) is really close, too. There's plenty of bus transit in this area; mostly along Lake, with north/south fingers at regular intervals.
Both cities are served by Car2Go and HourCar, subscription car-sharing services. My girlfriend uses the former pretty often and enjoys it. I don't ride bikes, but the TC metro is considered to be one of the bike-friendlier in the country; lots of streets have dedicated lanes, and -- minor tensions aside -- motorists tend to respect them.
For my money, STP is the better place to live (quieter and slightly cheaper), but your mileage will vary. I've lived in the Crocus Hill/Cathedral Hill area for about a decade and love it. Tons of stunning period buildings, and easy transit/access to everything you'd need (light rail, bus). Studios and one-bedrooms can totally be found in your range (my current place is right on Grand Ave. and is only just over $1K for a nice 2 bdrm). Across the river (called West Side, yet south-ish), past downtown (called East Side/Ward 6, and actually east-ish), and north of University (Frogtown and Como) are all a bit less polished, but still mostly safe and with their own neighborhood flavors. Downtown itself is upscaling quickly, with the Lowertown area gaining hipster status.
Ultimately, I don't feel that you can really go wrong. Sure, if you get out into the suburbs it's pretty same/lame, but all of the inner neighborhoods are swell. This isn't to whitewash some real racial/cultural tensions that exist, but overall the Cities are a gem.
posted by credible hulk at 6:17 PM on January 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have not lived in MPLS, but I have multiple friends that live in the neighborhoods (Longfellow, Kingfield, etc.) south of the east/west artery of Lake St. These are cozy neighborhoods that feature mature trees, lots of bungalow style homes, and pockets of restaurants, coffee shops, etc. Rents struck me as being mostly in the range you specify. Lake itself has lots of food and retail options, and Uptown (the funky hipster/yuppie area) is really close, too. There's plenty of bus transit in this area; mostly along Lake, with north/south fingers at regular intervals.
Both cities are served by Car2Go and HourCar, subscription car-sharing services. My girlfriend uses the former pretty often and enjoys it. I don't ride bikes, but the TC metro is considered to be one of the bike-friendlier in the country; lots of streets have dedicated lanes, and -- minor tensions aside -- motorists tend to respect them.
For my money, STP is the better place to live (quieter and slightly cheaper), but your mileage will vary. I've lived in the Crocus Hill/Cathedral Hill area for about a decade and love it. Tons of stunning period buildings, and easy transit/access to everything you'd need (light rail, bus). Studios and one-bedrooms can totally be found in your range (my current place is right on Grand Ave. and is only just over $1K for a nice 2 bdrm). Across the river (called West Side, yet south-ish), past downtown (called East Side/Ward 6, and actually east-ish), and north of University (Frogtown and Como) are all a bit less polished, but still mostly safe and with their own neighborhood flavors. Downtown itself is upscaling quickly, with the Lowertown area gaining hipster status.
Ultimately, I don't feel that you can really go wrong. Sure, if you get out into the suburbs it's pretty same/lame, but all of the inner neighborhoods are swell. This isn't to whitewash some real racial/cultural tensions that exist, but overall the Cities are a gem.
posted by credible hulk at 6:17 PM on January 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
The thing about Powderhorn in particular, though, is it's a super easy bike ride to both Uptown and downtown (Uptown is capitalized, downtown is not.) It's about 2.5 miles to Uptown, maybe three to downtown, maybe 4.5 over to Northeast - and very easy cycling. Once you know your way around you can take side streets and bike trails and it's hardly even a ride at all. North is farther from South and there's a lot of stuff in South, but it's also just a hop skip jump from downtown and Northeast.
I really like it here! Minneapolis is great! St. Paul seems nice!
I will stop posting now.
posted by Frowner at 6:19 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I really like it here! Minneapolis is great! St. Paul seems nice!
I will stop posting now.
posted by Frowner at 6:19 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Minnpost has a great regularly-updated site on crime here. It's definitely something I'd take into consideration, but not let it overrule all your other attributes.
posted by miyabo at 6:21 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by miyabo at 6:21 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Minnesota: Minneapolis is great! St. Paul seems nice!
(I'm sorry, but that was so funny I couldn't resist :) )
posted by triggerfinger at 6:24 PM on January 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
(I'm sorry, but that was so funny I couldn't resist :) )
posted by triggerfinger at 6:24 PM on January 14, 2016 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Oh, I should point out that a real selling point of the Cities is the food culture/infrastructure. Both towns have intentionally welcomed large immigrant groups over the years, so there's an interesting blend of cuisines. You'll traditionally find ethnic restaurants clustered along Lake St. in MPLS and along University in STP.
But beyond those options, pretty much every neighborhood has a very good higher-end/gourmet dining option (or several). And beyond those options, there is a significant local tradition of farm-to-table and cooperative agriculture/retail. MPLS is served by several co-op groceries, and STP has one major one with multiple locations. Most neighborhoods have farmers markets, too. Per capita, the area has fantastic access to local produce, relative to more famous food cities (NYC or SF, for example).
posted by credible hulk at 6:28 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
But beyond those options, pretty much every neighborhood has a very good higher-end/gourmet dining option (or several). And beyond those options, there is a significant local tradition of farm-to-table and cooperative agriculture/retail. MPLS is served by several co-op groceries, and STP has one major one with multiple locations. Most neighborhoods have farmers markets, too. Per capita, the area has fantastic access to local produce, relative to more famous food cities (NYC or SF, for example).
posted by credible hulk at 6:28 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
BTW I live in Howe (see the map). It's BEAUTIFUL, there are trees everywhere and amazing bike trails, BUT there is only one bus and it doesn't come frequently. Not a great place to live car-free. Rents are definitely in your price range though.
posted by miyabo at 6:31 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by miyabo at 6:31 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm just showing up to offer any St. Paul specific advice if you need it. We have stuff here too! And it's really not hard to travel between the two cities by bike, transit, or car , especially if you look at some if the western stp neighborhoods - highland park, Mac-groveland, Merriam park, or hamline-midway.
posted by Think_Long at 6:45 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Think_Long at 6:45 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If the message hasn't come through, Minneapolis people don't usually go to St Paul and St Paul people don't really go to Minneapolis.
Frowner's "St Paul seems nice!" is a pretty typical comment from an average Minneapolis resident that only comes to St Paul to see hockey at Xcel Center or to eat Vietnamese.
St Paul people go to Minneapolis for pro sports and concerts.
And that's about it! The residents don't cross the river too much, it's like a long errand for a St Paul person to go to Minneapolis and it's a confusing vacation in another land for Minneapolitans when they come to St Paul.
The two towns are pretty different in culture so figure out which you like.
A few people end up on the wrong side of the river when they first move here but figure it out and switch sides pretty fast.
posted by littlewater at 7:19 PM on January 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Frowner's "St Paul seems nice!" is a pretty typical comment from an average Minneapolis resident that only comes to St Paul to see hockey at Xcel Center or to eat Vietnamese.
St Paul people go to Minneapolis for pro sports and concerts.
And that's about it! The residents don't cross the river too much, it's like a long errand for a St Paul person to go to Minneapolis and it's a confusing vacation in another land for Minneapolitans when they come to St Paul.
The two towns are pretty different in culture so figure out which you like.
A few people end up on the wrong side of the river when they first move here but figure it out and switch sides pretty fast.
posted by littlewater at 7:19 PM on January 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Lowertown St. Paul might be a good fit for non-car living. Union Depot is right there for bus/lightrail/Amtrak. You'd have easy access to Shepard Road, which runs just south of downtown and has a dedicated bike trail all the way to Mpls, and the Vento/Gateway rail-trails. Vento ends abruptly in suburbia, but the Gateway takes you out to rural Stillwater where you have your choice of barely-traveled country roads and adorable river towns to check out.
Merriam Park, Hamline-Midway, and Mac-Groveland (the college-town part of St. Paul) all have good transit/bikeability. Highland Park is mostly residential and more spread out with fewer, less-frequent buses.
on preview: it's like a long errand for a St Paul person to go to Minneapolis and it's a confusing vacation in another land for Minneapolitans when they come to St Paul. - this description is both hilarious and absolutely true. Spend some time exploring both cities, you'll know the difference when you feel it.
posted by Flannery Culp at 7:25 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Merriam Park, Hamline-Midway, and Mac-Groveland (the college-town part of St. Paul) all have good transit/bikeability. Highland Park is mostly residential and more spread out with fewer, less-frequent buses.
on preview: it's like a long errand for a St Paul person to go to Minneapolis and it's a confusing vacation in another land for Minneapolitans when they come to St Paul. - this description is both hilarious and absolutely true. Spend some time exploring both cities, you'll know the difference when you feel it.
posted by Flannery Culp at 7:25 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I've lived here all my life and I don't think the division is nearly as big a deal as people say. It's a big metro area, think of if as a large collection of neighborhoods and find one you like - don't sweat the rest.
posted by Think_Long at 7:39 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Think_Long at 7:39 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm car free, live in Minneapolis, and work in St. Paul -- it can be done. My bus commute is on the long side, but sustainable thanks to buses that stop across the street from my office. Sometimes my timing is bad and I use car2go for the last mile. If I were more of a morning person I could even commute by bike in good weather; it's ten miles and change and a lot of it would be a pleasant straight shot down Summit Ave.
Continuing to live in Mpls when I expect to stay in this same job for a while is totally a social commute decision, for what it's worth. There are St. Paul neighborhoods where I would cheerfully live, that are walkable and have beer bars and co-ops and all that, and could probably cut my commute to work in half or more. But I made friends in Mpls first and I wouldn't like the prospect of feeling like it's a hike to see them in the evening and on weekends. Your mileage may vary, I'm introverty and prefer not to give myself TOO many barriers to leaving the house.
posted by clavicle at 7:58 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Continuing to live in Mpls when I expect to stay in this same job for a while is totally a social commute decision, for what it's worth. There are St. Paul neighborhoods where I would cheerfully live, that are walkable and have beer bars and co-ops and all that, and could probably cut my commute to work in half or more. But I made friends in Mpls first and I wouldn't like the prospect of feeling like it's a hike to see them in the evening and on weekends. Your mileage may vary, I'm introverty and prefer not to give myself TOO many barriers to leaving the house.
posted by clavicle at 7:58 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Memail me and I will show you around town. It is definitely doable to live in one of the cities and work in the other.
posted by jadepearl at 8:03 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jadepearl at 8:03 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Vis-a-vis St. Paul/MPLS:
1. Without a car it has been in the past difficult to get between cities unless you're going from the border. I used to live in SMPLS and take some classes in St. Paul and bike commute, and it was a real haul. The bus service is a little odd between the two - easy to get between downtowns but not so easy elsewhere.
This is changing due to the light rail, but if you are not driving getting between the two cities can be a challenge.
2. St. Paul has - as far as I can tell - fewer centralized "all the things are right here" destinations than Minneapolis, which means that if you're coming from Minneapolis, it's a bit harder to make a day of it, especially without a car.
3. For a long time, downtown St. Paul had less to do than downtown Minneapolis. This is changing as downtown MPLS gets ever more boring/chain-y and downtown St. Paul attracts more stuff. I used to spend a lot of time in downtown St. Paul waiting for someone I was dating to get off work, and while it was very pretty, I spent a lot of that time just idling over a cup of coffee. The Black Dog Cafe is very characteristic. Again, this is changing, but it's what people are thinking of.
4. St. Paul, famously, is not on the grid system. Some parts of it are a bit confusing, and other parts of it make complete sense but require some knowledge of how the major streets relate to each other. Minneapolis is on a couple of grid systems - numbered streets and alphabetized streets - so in much of the city, you can deduce your way around. Again, confusing!
5. Two parts of St. Paul I like and am familiar with enough to recommend: the area near Cecil's Deli and the Dale/Grand area. Hey, it looks like there are some apartments in your price range!. I used to know someone who lived in those buildings and at the the time it was pretty nice. Also, you can take...well, it's not the 3 anymore, but a bus that is not the three straight down the hill into downtown, or you can ride dangerously down that same hill, or you can walk it.
The biking is very nice in St. Paul, I will say. Oh, and you can totally bike to Hidden Falls. A fella could do worse than bike to Hidden Falls and then get a late lunch at Cecil's.
posted by Frowner at 8:09 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
1. Without a car it has been in the past difficult to get between cities unless you're going from the border. I used to live in SMPLS and take some classes in St. Paul and bike commute, and it was a real haul. The bus service is a little odd between the two - easy to get between downtowns but not so easy elsewhere.
This is changing due to the light rail, but if you are not driving getting between the two cities can be a challenge.
2. St. Paul has - as far as I can tell - fewer centralized "all the things are right here" destinations than Minneapolis, which means that if you're coming from Minneapolis, it's a bit harder to make a day of it, especially without a car.
3. For a long time, downtown St. Paul had less to do than downtown Minneapolis. This is changing as downtown MPLS gets ever more boring/chain-y and downtown St. Paul attracts more stuff. I used to spend a lot of time in downtown St. Paul waiting for someone I was dating to get off work, and while it was very pretty, I spent a lot of that time just idling over a cup of coffee. The Black Dog Cafe is very characteristic. Again, this is changing, but it's what people are thinking of.
4. St. Paul, famously, is not on the grid system. Some parts of it are a bit confusing, and other parts of it make complete sense but require some knowledge of how the major streets relate to each other. Minneapolis is on a couple of grid systems - numbered streets and alphabetized streets - so in much of the city, you can deduce your way around. Again, confusing!
5. Two parts of St. Paul I like and am familiar with enough to recommend: the area near Cecil's Deli and the Dale/Grand area. Hey, it looks like there are some apartments in your price range!. I used to know someone who lived in those buildings and at the the time it was pretty nice. Also, you can take...well, it's not the 3 anymore, but a bus that is not the three straight down the hill into downtown, or you can ride dangerously down that same hill, or you can walk it.
The biking is very nice in St. Paul, I will say. Oh, and you can totally bike to Hidden Falls. A fella could do worse than bike to Hidden Falls and then get a late lunch at Cecil's.
posted by Frowner at 8:09 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
When I first moved to Minneapolis I was like "what's with all these people who live in one of the cities and NEVER go to the other??" I spent a lot of time in St. Paul during my early years because my social circle consisted of people I met in church basements that happened to be in St. Paul and those people happened to live there too. Also went to law school there. These days I won't go to St. Paul to hang out with friends but I do run errands at specialty shops there on the regular. I love the retail, culture and outdoor scene in Minneapolis more than St. Paul though and I'd recommend Minneapolis out of the two.
I've lived in Dinkytown, Seward, Corcoran (adjacent to Powderhorn), and now I live in the un-gentrified (some might say 'dangerous') part of downtown not far but far enough from the new Vikings stadium. Before I moved downtown I pulled the crime stats for the area compared to my old neighborhoods and they were more or less the same and I've never felt unsafe anywhere.
Dinkytown is great if you're 19. You probably aren't. Seward would be my recommendation. Either two or three bus lines cut through the neighborhood and a handful more run down the borders. Unlike Powderhorn, there's a strong retail presence while still feeling very residential. There are some great restaurants and the Seward Co-Op. It's along the Mississippi River bike/running trails which are solid gold. I miss living near them. They will take you downtown, to the Greenway, the LRT (runs along the light rail tracks), the Minnehaha trail/Minnehaha Falls, Summit Avenue in St. Paul, and then from Summit you can either take a right turn and wind up at Cecil's Deli (yes Frowner is right go there) or instead make a left turn and find yourself on a trail to Wisconsin. Running along the river is the "running in the park" experience I think you're looking for.
Based on my own experiences and preferences I'd recommend Minneapolis with the caveat that I love living close to work and it's so easy to do here and everywhere is nice enough that there's no reason not to.
posted by good lorneing at 8:24 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've lived in Dinkytown, Seward, Corcoran (adjacent to Powderhorn), and now I live in the un-gentrified (some might say 'dangerous') part of downtown not far but far enough from the new Vikings stadium. Before I moved downtown I pulled the crime stats for the area compared to my old neighborhoods and they were more or less the same and I've never felt unsafe anywhere.
Dinkytown is great if you're 19. You probably aren't. Seward would be my recommendation. Either two or three bus lines cut through the neighborhood and a handful more run down the borders. Unlike Powderhorn, there's a strong retail presence while still feeling very residential. There are some great restaurants and the Seward Co-Op. It's along the Mississippi River bike/running trails which are solid gold. I miss living near them. They will take you downtown, to the Greenway, the LRT (runs along the light rail tracks), the Minnehaha trail/Minnehaha Falls, Summit Avenue in St. Paul, and then from Summit you can either take a right turn and wind up at Cecil's Deli (yes Frowner is right go there) or instead make a left turn and find yourself on a trail to Wisconsin. Running along the river is the "running in the park" experience I think you're looking for.
Based on my own experiences and preferences I'd recommend Minneapolis with the caveat that I love living close to work and it's so easy to do here and everywhere is nice enough that there's no reason not to.
posted by good lorneing at 8:24 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, I was also going to say if you're interested in grabbing a cookie at 10pm then neither downtown is the place for you. They both revolve almost exclusively around the working day - after 6pm there's really no reason to look both ways before stepping into the street in downtown St. Paul unless there's a concert or hockey game. On the other hand, I'll look both ways crossing a one-way in downtown Minneapolis every hour of the day. Minneapolis has its embarrassing surplus of sports venues and some completely not troubled and totally reputable nightclubs. The food scenes in the downtowns are...not a scene.
posted by good lorneing at 8:35 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by good lorneing at 8:35 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hey, it looks like there are some apartments in your price range!
Good suggestion, frowner. At the risk of oversharing, those are effectively across the way from me. But more importantly, they are a fair representation of the quality/price of apartments in this neighborhood. Of both cities, really, but the stock in STP is more likely to be from the late 1800s and early 1900s, while the stuff in MPLS doesn't typically date quite so far back.
posted by credible hulk at 9:31 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Good suggestion, frowner. At the risk of oversharing, those are effectively across the way from me. But more importantly, they are a fair representation of the quality/price of apartments in this neighborhood. Of both cities, really, but the stock in STP is more likely to be from the late 1800s and early 1900s, while the stuff in MPLS doesn't typically date quite so far back.
posted by credible hulk at 9:31 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lived in St. Paul for 4 years of college and a year after (separated by a couple in between). I worked in one of the rightfully presented "rough" neighborhoods in s mpls in my year back (Phillips) and we still have a lot of friends in both St. Paul and Minneapolis.
Coming from New York you're going to have a time adjusting. As mentioned above the idea of sketchy is just totally different and I frequently find the deserted streets of my friends reasonable nice minneapolis neighborhood kind of eerie and would 1000% rather have a street filled with questionable characters than blocks of empty. Also you're 10pm cookie is essentially a pipe dream - downtowns or not. We would, in all honesty, have considered staying long term if not for the car dependence (we left before the light rail obviously) and brutal winters.
Might it be possible to set something up on the shorter term side while you figure out work things and then base your final housing search on your presumed regular commute. Unlike nyc you cannot assume that every area is reasonably connected by public transit within the twin cities. Biking is a good option but know that winter biking is both doable and an intense commitment. Have friends who do it and they're commendable (and a little nuts).
Lower town St. Paul is kinda awesome. Independent league baseball and farmers market and some solid bars and restaurants.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:51 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Coming from New York you're going to have a time adjusting. As mentioned above the idea of sketchy is just totally different and I frequently find the deserted streets of my friends reasonable nice minneapolis neighborhood kind of eerie and would 1000% rather have a street filled with questionable characters than blocks of empty. Also you're 10pm cookie is essentially a pipe dream - downtowns or not. We would, in all honesty, have considered staying long term if not for the car dependence (we left before the light rail obviously) and brutal winters.
Might it be possible to set something up on the shorter term side while you figure out work things and then base your final housing search on your presumed regular commute. Unlike nyc you cannot assume that every area is reasonably connected by public transit within the twin cities. Biking is a good option but know that winter biking is both doable and an intense commitment. Have friends who do it and they're commendable (and a little nuts).
Lower town St. Paul is kinda awesome. Independent league baseball and farmers market and some solid bars and restaurants.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:51 PM on January 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Rightfully represented was supposed to mean that I agree that a lot of "rough" Minneapolis neighborhoods are more poor than dangerous and a lot of folks who don't spend any time in them might confuse the two.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:52 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:52 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
OK so it's true the 10pm cookie is basically a pipe dream, but I'll be pedantic and point out that Dinkytown does now have an Insomnia Cookies.
This is a thing that sometimes happens in the Cities: a version of the service or place you want gets implemented, but it comes in the form of a plaything for U of M students.
posted by clavicle at 5:45 AM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is a thing that sometimes happens in the Cities: a version of the service or place you want gets implemented, but it comes in the form of a plaything for U of M students.
posted by clavicle at 5:45 AM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
About biking in the winter: it is very manageable if two conditions are met:
1. You have an option for really bad days/really heavy snow; and
2. You have some flexibility about the exact time you get to work.
I do know someone who has a twenty mile round trip who rides it year round and has a fixed arrival time for work, but he is extremely hard core.
For me, I bike slowly and carefully, taking the sidewalk when needed and getting off to walk my bike when needed (or when I'm on a sidewalk with pedestrians - but a surprising number of pedestrians take the bus in the winter instead!). You will find that in most years, even the heaviest snowfall will get compressed and/or subsumed into the air enough to clear the sidewalks and bike lanes.
But since you're self-employed, you could easily choose a place that was within a couple miles of essential services and either skip longer trips on really cold/snowy days or else take public transit. You can virtually always do a couple of miles on a bike even when it's very cold and snowy. Also, they plow the bike trails very promptly.
I winter bike in a wool coat and ordinary gloves and hat, but my core commute is only 2.5 miles, and honestly when the high is below 10 I take the bus. If you were to have those winter bike gloves that affix to your handles and a purpose-built coat and a well-chosen bike, you'd be all set. You could even get one of those Surly big-tire bikes, although honestly I feel like regular non-racing tires are best on the snow.
In terms of bike shops: we have tons. I had a good ad hoc repair at some racing shop in St. Paul in an emergency once* but don't know much about other shops over there. Over here, the only really bad experience I had was at Sunrise Cycle on Lake - several low-quality repairs and a hilariously stupid/sexist interaction with the counter guy**, but I like the East Bank and West Bank Hubs and Freewheel best in terms of friendliness. The big Hub location on Minnehaha was great, got snobby and rude and has turned it around a lot.
*I don't mean to suggest that St. Paul is meh - I like St. Paul! If the light rail had existed when I bought my house, I might have moved to St. Paul. But without a car, it would have complicated a lot of the volunteer and related stuff I do in MPLS, even if I'd gotten the commute sorted.
**So I bike myself in for a non-critical repair, leave the bike and return a couple of days later. When I get my bike back, the seat is missing. "Where is my bike seat," I say. The counter dude asks me if I was sure it had a seat when I brought it in. "Yes, I rode it here and I didn't ride it without a seat," I say. And he keeps pressuring me to admit that I didn't bring it in with a seat, the jerk, which I bet he would never have done to a male client. They finally gave me a low-quality replacement seat, and I was done.
posted by Frowner at 6:14 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
1. You have an option for really bad days/really heavy snow; and
2. You have some flexibility about the exact time you get to work.
I do know someone who has a twenty mile round trip who rides it year round and has a fixed arrival time for work, but he is extremely hard core.
For me, I bike slowly and carefully, taking the sidewalk when needed and getting off to walk my bike when needed (or when I'm on a sidewalk with pedestrians - but a surprising number of pedestrians take the bus in the winter instead!). You will find that in most years, even the heaviest snowfall will get compressed and/or subsumed into the air enough to clear the sidewalks and bike lanes.
But since you're self-employed, you could easily choose a place that was within a couple miles of essential services and either skip longer trips on really cold/snowy days or else take public transit. You can virtually always do a couple of miles on a bike even when it's very cold and snowy. Also, they plow the bike trails very promptly.
I winter bike in a wool coat and ordinary gloves and hat, but my core commute is only 2.5 miles, and honestly when the high is below 10 I take the bus. If you were to have those winter bike gloves that affix to your handles and a purpose-built coat and a well-chosen bike, you'd be all set. You could even get one of those Surly big-tire bikes, although honestly I feel like regular non-racing tires are best on the snow.
In terms of bike shops: we have tons. I had a good ad hoc repair at some racing shop in St. Paul in an emergency once* but don't know much about other shops over there. Over here, the only really bad experience I had was at Sunrise Cycle on Lake - several low-quality repairs and a hilariously stupid/sexist interaction with the counter guy**, but I like the East Bank and West Bank Hubs and Freewheel best in terms of friendliness. The big Hub location on Minnehaha was great, got snobby and rude and has turned it around a lot.
*I don't mean to suggest that St. Paul is meh - I like St. Paul! If the light rail had existed when I bought my house, I might have moved to St. Paul. But without a car, it would have complicated a lot of the volunteer and related stuff I do in MPLS, even if I'd gotten the commute sorted.
**So I bike myself in for a non-critical repair, leave the bike and return a couple of days later. When I get my bike back, the seat is missing. "Where is my bike seat," I say. The counter dude asks me if I was sure it had a seat when I brought it in. "Yes, I rode it here and I didn't ride it without a seat," I say. And he keeps pressuring me to admit that I didn't bring it in with a seat, the jerk, which I bet he would never have done to a male client. They finally gave me a low-quality replacement seat, and I was done.
posted by Frowner at 6:14 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I love these threads because my opinion is so different from everywhere else's all the time. I have lived in Mpls all my life, nearly 40 years. Granted, 19 of them were in the northwest suburbs, but the most recent 20 years have all been in the city (though technically, the past two years I have lived in a suburb, but literally 27 feet from the Mpls border).
First, it seems like you (the OP) want a NYC lifestyle, but in Mpls. It won't happen. Not even close. I know people who have lived in Mpls, moved to NYC for a decade or so, and are now back. They compare the two cultures all the time. It's like trying to eat fruit, but you really wish it will taste like a donut. The little nuances mentioned in the original post--they aren't going to happen, or if they do, it won't be the way they are being imagined.
As far as safety, I am shocked by what people are saying here. Some of the areas people are saying are "safe" I wouldn't go to at 3pm on any day. Mpls is more made up of "pockets". For example, north Mpls is a very scary place, but if you know which blocks to live on, there are the safest pockets there. Or, my wife and I lived in a very safe neighborhood (the houses were all the million-dollar kind; we rented), but we were in a bad pocket and my wife couldn't even walk the baby because there were ongoing, frequent muggings of mothers walking babies weekday afternoons. You could look on crime maps and it was drawn out clear a day. So, it will take a lot of research and balancing people's opinions.
As far as biking, biking year round is so normal here, I don't even know what to say about it. It would be like asking someone how they drink a glass of water. People just do it. Also, the bike trails are considered snow emergency routes, so they are plowed first! And the trail system is the best in the country and beyond, so biking anywhere is not a problem. Road riding here is super easy and fun. I have ridden 10k miles on the roads in recent years and only had one close incident.
Buses. People who say public transit here is great have never lived in a place like NYC. I have only known two car free people, and they were pretty miserable. It took them hours to go places that would only be 20 minutes by car. In a place like NYC, everyone takes public transit. Here, only people who can't drive take public transit, for the most part. And lots of crime at bus stops in well-off neighborhoods, for some reason. Of course I am generalizing, but it's a different culture entirely.
So, I don't know if I am just old with kids and have a different opinion of the area, or if people are just naive of the reality of where they live because they live there, but I just tell people that you have to be really careful when picking a place to live. Someone once described it like this: Minneapolis has both the safest and least safe areas in the Midwest, while St. Paul is all just kind of blah.
And, yes, the St. Paul/Mpls separation thing is very, very real, although I have also found that a lot of people who are technically within the St. Paul limits think they are really in Mpls, which I find very interesting.
posted by TinWhistle at 7:00 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
First, it seems like you (the OP) want a NYC lifestyle, but in Mpls. It won't happen. Not even close. I know people who have lived in Mpls, moved to NYC for a decade or so, and are now back. They compare the two cultures all the time. It's like trying to eat fruit, but you really wish it will taste like a donut. The little nuances mentioned in the original post--they aren't going to happen, or if they do, it won't be the way they are being imagined.
As far as safety, I am shocked by what people are saying here. Some of the areas people are saying are "safe" I wouldn't go to at 3pm on any day. Mpls is more made up of "pockets". For example, north Mpls is a very scary place, but if you know which blocks to live on, there are the safest pockets there. Or, my wife and I lived in a very safe neighborhood (the houses were all the million-dollar kind; we rented), but we were in a bad pocket and my wife couldn't even walk the baby because there were ongoing, frequent muggings of mothers walking babies weekday afternoons. You could look on crime maps and it was drawn out clear a day. So, it will take a lot of research and balancing people's opinions.
As far as biking, biking year round is so normal here, I don't even know what to say about it. It would be like asking someone how they drink a glass of water. People just do it. Also, the bike trails are considered snow emergency routes, so they are plowed first! And the trail system is the best in the country and beyond, so biking anywhere is not a problem. Road riding here is super easy and fun. I have ridden 10k miles on the roads in recent years and only had one close incident.
Buses. People who say public transit here is great have never lived in a place like NYC. I have only known two car free people, and they were pretty miserable. It took them hours to go places that would only be 20 minutes by car. In a place like NYC, everyone takes public transit. Here, only people who can't drive take public transit, for the most part. And lots of crime at bus stops in well-off neighborhoods, for some reason. Of course I am generalizing, but it's a different culture entirely.
So, I don't know if I am just old with kids and have a different opinion of the area, or if people are just naive of the reality of where they live because they live there, but I just tell people that you have to be really careful when picking a place to live. Someone once described it like this: Minneapolis has both the safest and least safe areas in the Midwest, while St. Paul is all just kind of blah.
And, yes, the St. Paul/Mpls separation thing is very, very real, although I have also found that a lot of people who are technically within the St. Paul limits think they are really in Mpls, which I find very interesting.
posted by TinWhistle at 7:00 AM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Here is Metro Transit's Hi Frequency Transit map. you are going to want to live on or very near one of these lines otherwise it's going to be a pain living car free in MSP. But note that just because these are frequent, they aren't always fast. during rush hour you can hop on express buses, but off peak getting around on transit in MSP can take awhile. However, Car2Go is a fantastic supplement!
posted by nanhey at 4:21 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by nanhey at 4:21 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: oh and here's the Hennepin Co. bike map that shows on street and off street paths. gives you a good picture of how you could get a 50 mile loop in - in Minneapolis at least. Cyclopath has this info for both Hennepin Co (where Minneapolis located) and Ramsey County (Saint Paul) as well as in the burbs, but it's a little more difficult to wade through.
posted by nanhey at 4:27 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by nanhey at 4:27 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I just wanted to say thank to every single person who answered! This has been one of the most informative, detailed answers that I've ever received in askmeta.
Collectively, everyone has explained the bike path situation (and the map is awesome). Same with the public transportation - I'm likely to use that Metro Transit Hi Frequency map and bike map to pick neighborhoods to investigate.
Thanks for the perspective on Minneapolis is great, St Paul seems nice (laughed my head off).
I also appreciate some of the perspectives of the fun things and potential highlights of neighborhoods (ie, running along the river, Sf bookstore, parades, puppet shows, etc.). I'll be honest and say that I'm having a hard time letting go of NYC, so something fun/interesting to look forward to will help. I certainly would not have gleaned that perspective from googling.
I also appreciate the reality slap; my midnight cookie is a pipe dream. What?! I think I can survive if there are other fun things in a new place since I have lived in other parts of the US and done okay.
The comment about what I might feel safe in/not safe in is also insightful (as in if no one is walking and a street is empty, that might be scary.)
Thanks again. If people feel something was missed, feel free to drop in info (I follow threads for a very long time), or feel free to memail.
Thanks again everyone!
posted by Wolfster at 6:32 PM on January 16, 2016
Collectively, everyone has explained the bike path situation (and the map is awesome). Same with the public transportation - I'm likely to use that Metro Transit Hi Frequency map and bike map to pick neighborhoods to investigate.
Thanks for the perspective on Minneapolis is great, St Paul seems nice (laughed my head off).
I also appreciate some of the perspectives of the fun things and potential highlights of neighborhoods (ie, running along the river, Sf bookstore, parades, puppet shows, etc.). I'll be honest and say that I'm having a hard time letting go of NYC, so something fun/interesting to look forward to will help. I certainly would not have gleaned that perspective from googling.
I also appreciate the reality slap; my midnight cookie is a pipe dream. What?! I think I can survive if there are other fun things in a new place since I have lived in other parts of the US and done okay.
The comment about what I might feel safe in/not safe in is also insightful (as in if no one is walking and a street is empty, that might be scary.)
Thanks again. If people feel something was missed, feel free to drop in info (I follow threads for a very long time), or feel free to memail.
Thanks again everyone!
posted by Wolfster at 6:32 PM on January 16, 2016
Best answer: I'd like to briefly chime in and suggest the small neighborhood around 48th & Chicago in South Minneapolis. There is a good bakery, an odd little movie theater, a thoroughly mediocre Mexican restaurant (my dad eats there ever week, it is a great neighborhood institution and a place I've gone to since I was little, but the food isn't that hot), a liquor store, a clinic, a couple bars, some decent restaurants, etc. When my sister-in-law first moved here from Chicago she lived in an apartment building there and loved it. It is also a good neighborhood for biking and transit because the Minnehaha Creek is two blocks away, and the #5 bus there on Chicago must be one of the routes that runs most frequently.
(On the Minneapolis vs. St. Paul question, I'd note that one problem is the street system in St. Paul. The numbering doesn't make sense and there isn't any sort of sensible arrangement system to the street names as in some parts of Minneapolis. I used to always get lost in St. Paul and then I'd find myself by locating the river and crossing back to home.)
(Oh, on the neighborhood issue it is worth noting that some neighborhoods got their reputations in the late 90s when crime was much worse. Newsweek ran its "Murderapolis" cover story in 1995 and one of the stories in that issue started by recounting shooting that took place near my mom's house in Powderhorn. It really did feel unsafe back then because people were getting shot near our house and there was lots of theft and other petty crime in the neighborhood. I don't have statistics, I just remember stuff getting stolen from us, times windows on our house and car were smashed with rocks, etc. It wasn't just uptight white people who thought there was a problem, I remember black neighbors who moved out to the suburbs looking for somewhere that seemed safer. My mom still lives there and it is much better though there is still more crime than in my sleepy neighborhood to the south.)
posted by Area Man at 6:32 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
(On the Minneapolis vs. St. Paul question, I'd note that one problem is the street system in St. Paul. The numbering doesn't make sense and there isn't any sort of sensible arrangement system to the street names as in some parts of Minneapolis. I used to always get lost in St. Paul and then I'd find myself by locating the river and crossing back to home.)
(Oh, on the neighborhood issue it is worth noting that some neighborhoods got their reputations in the late 90s when crime was much worse. Newsweek ran its "Murderapolis" cover story in 1995 and one of the stories in that issue started by recounting shooting that took place near my mom's house in Powderhorn. It really did feel unsafe back then because people were getting shot near our house and there was lots of theft and other petty crime in the neighborhood. I don't have statistics, I just remember stuff getting stolen from us, times windows on our house and car were smashed with rocks, etc. It wasn't just uptight white people who thought there was a problem, I remember black neighbors who moved out to the suburbs looking for somewhere that seemed safer. My mom still lives there and it is much better though there is still more crime than in my sleepy neighborhood to the south.)
posted by Area Man at 6:32 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I favorited all the answers but "best answered" a few because I had to hit the ground and look for a place, and then revisit the thread to understand this area, and some of the answers had pieces of info for me. Even though some are best answered, *every single answer* in here helped me .
What I did not pick, based on the thread plus looking at places:
-I looked at Loring and was ready to sign (great view of park!), but I had a friend go on and on about potential crime. I googled more and could not find what he was talking about, but Area Man's comment about the reputation form the past helped me figure out that this was probably the issue? However, I looked at this thread and noticed that some people mentioned low availability of transport plus poor access to bike trails (and google maps confirmed this), and decided against it.
What I did pick:
An apartment near 46th and the blue line. What helped me determine was the following:
-Besides walking and trying out the public transportation, the blue line is definitely a high frequency travel (see that map linked above), and every 15 minutes, one appears. From there, I can get to downtown MPLS from this location in 20 minutes. 20 to 30 minutes to most places is not a big deal to me, especially vs the subway times I am used to from NYC.
-Google maps and the bike map with on road and off road trails linked above is really good, and from my new neighborhood, there are off road biking paths in each direction, and they run for miles.
-This location is less than a mile from a lake and has lots of walking paths. I had this in NYC, and enjoy having the same here.
-There are stores nearby, although....no cookies at midnight. I guess I will have to let go off that (amazon drones anyone?)
Other info that I am providing for other people who find this thread and are looking for info for moving to Minneapolis/St Paul. This was info that I wish I had or knew and stumbled when looking for a place (my fault because I did not think of asking):
-It was hard initially to find a good search program. For this area, I found google maps plus padmapper the most useful (craigsiist was a train wreck for me.)
-This reddit guide (Relocating to Minneapolis) was very, very useful.
-A few key bits of info about "downtown Minneapolis". In comparison to NYC, it is easily walkable from one end to the other. What was really cool and interesting (and probably heaven in the winter) were the skyways. These are tunnels in the sky that connect building all over downtown - for someone afraid of the winter, this might be an okay/good compromise. I was able to find places downtown connected to skyways (ie, run your reacher parameters plus the word "skyways" to find apartments).
-Searching for places in MPLS. I have to be honest and say that it was more difficult here than other parts of the country - because instead of realtors that showed you a ton of places, most places did not answer calls or emails for a few days, would only set appointments a few days in the future, and then those apartments are not available for a few months? I've seen many places, so apparently this is how things are done. I would have probably saved some stress had I flown out here 3 months before moving, and made appointments a week before flying out. But you live and learn.... Although I said this, the competition was specifically fierce for apartments in my price range (800 to 1000). I noticed that many apartments that cost a bit more (ie, 1500) were often vacant and available right now.
Thanks again everyone!
posted by Wolfster at 3:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I did not pick, based on the thread plus looking at places:
-I looked at Loring and was ready to sign (great view of park!), but I had a friend go on and on about potential crime. I googled more and could not find what he was talking about, but Area Man's comment about the reputation form the past helped me figure out that this was probably the issue? However, I looked at this thread and noticed that some people mentioned low availability of transport plus poor access to bike trails (and google maps confirmed this), and decided against it.
What I did pick:
An apartment near 46th and the blue line. What helped me determine was the following:
-Besides walking and trying out the public transportation, the blue line is definitely a high frequency travel (see that map linked above), and every 15 minutes, one appears. From there, I can get to downtown MPLS from this location in 20 minutes. 20 to 30 minutes to most places is not a big deal to me, especially vs the subway times I am used to from NYC.
-Google maps and the bike map with on road and off road trails linked above is really good, and from my new neighborhood, there are off road biking paths in each direction, and they run for miles.
-This location is less than a mile from a lake and has lots of walking paths. I had this in NYC, and enjoy having the same here.
-There are stores nearby, although....no cookies at midnight. I guess I will have to let go off that (amazon drones anyone?)
Other info that I am providing for other people who find this thread and are looking for info for moving to Minneapolis/St Paul. This was info that I wish I had or knew and stumbled when looking for a place (my fault because I did not think of asking):
-It was hard initially to find a good search program. For this area, I found google maps plus padmapper the most useful (craigsiist was a train wreck for me.)
-This reddit guide (Relocating to Minneapolis) was very, very useful.
-A few key bits of info about "downtown Minneapolis". In comparison to NYC, it is easily walkable from one end to the other. What was really cool and interesting (and probably heaven in the winter) were the skyways. These are tunnels in the sky that connect building all over downtown - for someone afraid of the winter, this might be an okay/good compromise. I was able to find places downtown connected to skyways (ie, run your reacher parameters plus the word "skyways" to find apartments).
-Searching for places in MPLS. I have to be honest and say that it was more difficult here than other parts of the country - because instead of realtors that showed you a ton of places, most places did not answer calls or emails for a few days, would only set appointments a few days in the future, and then those apartments are not available for a few months? I've seen many places, so apparently this is how things are done. I would have probably saved some stress had I flown out here 3 months before moving, and made appointments a week before flying out. But you live and learn.... Although I said this, the competition was specifically fierce for apartments in my price range (800 to 1000). I noticed that many apartments that cost a bit more (ie, 1500) were often vacant and available right now.
Thanks again everyone!
posted by Wolfster at 3:48 PM on August 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Welcome to our neighborhood. Shoot me a MeMail if you ever want to catch a neighborhoon drink. We are right by Lake Hiawatha.
posted by advicepig at 10:55 AM on September 6, 2016
posted by advicepig at 10:55 AM on September 6, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
* Seward/Cedar Riverside -- good transit connections, very busy, lots of stuff to do, there definitely is a little crime (esp. muggings and nonviolent stuff)
* Loring Park -- all apartment buildings, close to downtown. I HATED living in Loring Park, mostly because the transit connections are terrible AND there's no place to park a car AND there's very few bike trails. But hey, many people like it.
* Nordeast -- The hottest, hippest area right now. Mostly single-family homes, and buses/bike trails aren't great. But there are SO MANY craft breweries.
* Uptown -- Used to be the cool neighborhood. Now just kind of expensive/yuppy. But great bus connections and bike trails.
* North Loop -- I assume you can't afford it? But very close to downtown and lots of cool restaurants/art galleries.
* Dinkytown/Marcy-Holmes -- Mostly studenty. But there's a lot of stuff to do and great transit/bike connections, and it's still relatively affordable. I'd seriously consider it even though you're not a student.
posted by miyabo at 5:39 PM on January 14, 2016 [2 favorites]