Partnership Dissolved. Which of the two ventures should I align with?
January 12, 2016 8:12 AM   Subscribe

Within five minutes of meeting the partners of this fashion jewelry company I knew that ship was gonna sink. I signed up anyway because the pay was decent. I fully intended to be the last rat standing. I wasn't expecting the ship to break into two pieces. Now I'm trying to decide which half is going to float longer.

They hired me because I have an excellent working knowledge of fashion jewelry. I am apparently the only person they know who has this knowledge and the desire/ability to work for them. When they parted ways I was informed that I must choose whom to work for (because conflict of interests. Yanno, since I obviously posses arcane knowledge and company secrets...) I'm in the process of weighing the possibilities and would appreciate input from people who haven't already heard me complaining about this stuff.

For clarity's sake I'm going to refer to these two women as Lawyer and Chef.

Neither have any significant knowledge about fashion or fashion jewelry.
Neither has any background in merchandising.
Neither has a working website. Instagram really doesn't count.
Both believe they will be able to sell their jewelry in high-end department stores (like Nordstrom).
Both believe they are creating new/novel/fascinating things. (They're not.)

Lawyer has actually sold quite a few of her pieces (to family, friends, clients and acquaintances).
Chef has only sold a small handful.

Lawyer is still actively practicing. I do not know her long-term plans.
Chef is closing her restaurant this month. She intends to stake her livelihood on this new business.

Chef wants to eventually expand her business into accessories and clothing.
I do not know Lawyer's long-term business goals.

Chef is French and there is often a language barrier.
Lawyer is much easier to converse with and does not question my knowledge of jewelry construction.
Chef believes herself an artist and insists that I create pieces which will not be functional.
Lawyer is far more interested in the marketing/merchandising aspect of the process.

Chef has been more consistent in giving me work.
Lawyer has been less so.

Chef does not purchase needed supplies in a timely manner.
Lawyer has repeatedly gone out of her way to acquire necessary items.

Lawyer will have me making jewelry in the very swank lobby of her condo.
I have no idea where Chef intends for me to work once the restaurant closes.


I am leaning strongly toward Chef at this point. I have worked with her for longer. A good friend of mine is also employed by her. She is flexible with scheduling and understanding of things like Seasonal Affective Disorder and Just Having A Bad Day.

Thanks in advance for your input!
posted by contemporarySlob to Work & Money (27 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
My rule of thumb -- when you make a big list of pros and cons and whatnot, the last thing you list points the direction you really want to go. You want to work with Chef, despite her losing almost every comparison. So go that way.
posted by Etrigan at 8:16 AM on January 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


Personally I wouldn't work with either. The problem with Chef is that if she's closing her business, where will your pay come from? Obviously the jewelry business isn't a going concern yet. Sure, it sounds that Chef is a better bet because she's nicer, but nice doesn't generate money. If she's closing her restaurant it means it failed, yes? Do you want to put your eggs in the basket that has giant holes in it?

Ask both (separately, of course) how they plan to pay you, and what, exactly, their long term plans are. Knowing where you'd work would be nice. Knowing whether this will be a side business forever for Lawyer would be nice. Don't make decisions until you have all the answers you need first.
posted by clone boulevard at 8:23 AM on January 12, 2016 [12 favorites]


Couldn't you just move out of your apartment and start living on the street now?

Honestly, you don't seem to think either of these is going to make it and you present very compelling arguments why both options are horrible. If you can't get out of this mess now, then while you're working either of these doomed, horrible jobs to keep the bills paid, you should be working at least as hard on finding a place to go when the ship does inevitably sink, and I'm not clear why it really matters which one of these it is.

Go with the person who irritates you less.
posted by Naberius at 8:32 AM on January 12, 2016 [28 favorites]


The best option is to find a third-party who has actual merchandising experience and sales channels.

If that is not possible, I would actually go with Lawyer, who has money, is easy to converse with, defers to you in matters of subject area expertise, and provides you with the necessary supplies. I'm sure Chef is delightful, but three months from now you'll be working for free to construct poorly-made pieces from missing supplies.
posted by pie ninja at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2016 [37 favorites]


The lawyer sounds way less financially dangerous to you, but in the long run it feels like having a long term plan that doesn't involve either of them is going to be best for you.
posted by Candleman at 8:39 AM on January 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think Step 1 would be to have a detailed conversation with each of them about their plans for how they're going to keep the business going in the next few months to a year, and how they are going to pay you.

I think the lawyer sounds like she has much more viable prospects for a longer term business even if her jewelry isn't particularly inspired since she's organized and interested in marketing/merchandising, but you say you are leaning toward Chef and so I'd go with her. But I'd definitely keep an eye out for the next job, since it doesn't sound like Chef has her stuff together enough to keep her business afloat.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 8:48 AM on January 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I would see who can draw up a contract with you to insure as much as can be insured in a business like this. It sounds like both these people are kind of dabbling in this business, and I very much doubt that either will be in it for the long term, so who can try to at least guarantee you X amount of work per month (or put you on some sort of salary/stipend) for the short term?
posted by xingcat at 8:51 AM on January 12, 2016


Honestly, neither of these sound great to me but if I were to jump ship in your shoes, I'd go with Lawyer because she seems to have her stuff together more. I started to write a long bit of anecdata, but long story short: it's better to work with professional-if-less-pleasant person than an affable can't-get-it-together person...unless you're prepared and able to take care of all the operational needs. If the thought of working with Lawyer really doesn't appeal, then figure out how much time and money you're willing to invest in seeing whether Chef can keep up her end of the deal.

Definitely lawyer up and do a formal contract regardless and have an exit strategy with concrete benchmarks to make sure you don't get in too deep. (Something I sadly have some experience with.)
posted by smirkette at 9:00 AM on January 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh my god, don't work for Chef. I'm not sure whether you should work for Lawyer but Chef doesn't seem to have a business plan of any kind beyond "hurl cash at pipe dream."
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:04 AM on January 12, 2016 [16 favorites]


Neither have any significant knowledge about fashion or fashion jewelry.
Neither has any background in merchandising.
Neither has a working website. Instagram really doesn't count.
Both believe they will be able to sell their jewelry in high-end department stores (like Nordstrom).
Both believe they are creating new/novel/fascinating things. (They're not.)


I would not work for either of them. But, if you really feel this is your only options...

Lawyer has actually sold quite a few of her pieces (to family, friends, clients and acquaintances).
Chef has only sold a small handful.


Not really relevant. I can sell crap to my friends too.

Lawyer is still actively practicing. I do not know her long-term plans.
Chef is closing her restaurant this month. She intends to stake her livelihood on this new business.


Not really relevant except for indicating their commitment to the company, which leads to the next part...

Chef wants to eventually expand her business into accessories and clothing.
I do not know Lawyer's long-term business goals.


I guess it's nice for Chef to have these big ambitions, but considering they haven't even successfully launched one product in jewellery it's a bit moot. Still, worth asking the Lawyer what their take is to make sure they have some commitment to this venture.

Chef is French and there is often a language barrier.
Lawyer is much easier to converse with and does not question my knowledge of jewelry construction.
Chef believes herself an artist and insists that I create pieces which will not be functional.
Lawyer is far more interested in the marketing/merchandising aspect of the process.


This is where I think it might get interesting for you. What kind of role do you want to have in the new business? If you want a more creative lead on the products, it sounds like Lawyer is the better option.

Chef has been more consistent in giving me work.
Lawyer has been less so.


This is probably because Lawyer was leaving it to Chef to give you work as it sounds like Chef was the creative on this.

Chef does not purchase needed supplies in a timely manner.
Lawyer has repeatedly gone out of her way to acquire necessary items.


Lawyer is who keeps a business running so I would pick Lawyer on this account.

Lawyer will have me making jewelry in the very swank lobby of her condo.
I have no idea where Chef intends for me to work once the restaurant closes.


Lawyer.
posted by like_neon at 9:04 AM on January 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, neither one sounds ideal, but Chef sounds like a flake.

Also, should this be made anonymous? The particular situation and opposing characters you are describing seem rather identifiable.
posted by blueberry at 9:16 AM on January 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


Go with the one who can pay you the most, consistently. This is not an artistic merit thought process, this is about who can pay you. I'm thinking it's lawyer, but you know better than I.

Chef is closing her primary business! Chef does not seem to have two feet on the ground. If and when Chef's jewelry business dies, who do you think will get the blame for it?

I'd opt to have them both lay me off, then I'd go down to Unemployment to start my checks. Then I'd move heaven and earth to get another job.

In the future, if you suspect that the enterprise is going to founder, don't bet the rent on it anyway.

Stability is boring as fuck. That's why it's so awesome.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:25 AM on January 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


(1) following Etrigan's logic, you should go with Lawyer (and not Chef as they argue) - last list item is pro-Lawyer.

(2) it seems you think both are going to fail (i certainly do), so are only doing this for monetary gain. so why not auction yourself? go with whoever will sign a contract for the largest amount.
posted by andrewcooke at 9:37 AM on January 12, 2016


When they parted ways I was informed that I must choose whom to work for (because conflict of interests. Yanno, since I obviously posses arcane knowledge and company secrets...)

Just to be clear, are they both offering you a replacement FT job? If not, they don't really have a leg to stand on to deny you the option of working PT for both. Are you a proper employee with sick time, benefits, vacation etc? Maybe a better option would to be create you own company and charge each of them for the services they require - upping your rates of course, by at least 50%, to compensate for what you lose from not being an employee.

It sounds like you have a bit of leverage here, you should be using it to your advantage instead of just accepting what they are offering.
posted by saucysault at 9:40 AM on January 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


What about your own qualities and desires? It sounds like Chef needs someone like Lawyer, and Lawyer might need someone as passionate as Chef. Which one do you complement more?
posted by amtho at 10:49 AM on January 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


If I had to choose, I'd go with Lawyer for reasons others have already covered. However,

...because conflict of interests...

that there is a legal term. Did they/Lawyer use it on you? It's not fair for an attorney to have that much of an upper hand, and you should find a way to verify it's actually true before acting on its assumption.
posted by teremala at 11:23 AM on January 12, 2016


I must choose whom to work for (because conflict of interests.... since I obviously posses arcane knowledge and company secrets...)

This is confused. Both of them should be demanding you work for them and forbidding you to work for the other, if your inside knowledge would give your new employer a competitive advantage over the other one. It sounds in fact like neither of them cares if you work for them or not. That doesn't sound like a promising start for your employment with either one. Look for the more secure money.
posted by JimN2TAW at 11:51 AM on January 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Chef will ruin her company faster and with more drama.
If your goal remains "earn good money as long as possible", stick to Lawyer.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:53 AM on January 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Are you kidding? This isn't even a question. Lawyer. Chef has nothing concrete going for her. It sucks, but businesses run on money, not love. Bonus is, if you like Chef, you can probably still be friends with her -- which most likely wouldn't happen after the crash-and-burn that would ensue from going into business with her.
posted by fiercecupcake at 11:55 AM on January 12, 2016 [4 favorites]


You want to willingly choose the person who insists you make non-functional pieces? What?

Lawyer all the way. Just work out a better working space.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:43 PM on January 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I like the idea of having both of them put a written offer on the table.
I assume that my favorite, Lawyer, would be able to offer a stable salary, especially if she's making that lawyer money.
I would most definitely start coming up with a Plan B immediately.
Like yesterday.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 1:29 PM on January 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


C) Find another job. While you're looking, go work with Lawyer because Chef is just a hot mess, but seriously, neither of them are great prospects. I would back your business before theirs simply because it already seems like you have a better idea of what it takes than either of them. But regardless, both are terrible options and you should be getting out.
posted by Jubey at 3:13 PM on January 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Whoever you end up working for, do so with some kind of contract that's for say, 6 months of work, 50% up front. I would not be a W-2 employee for either of these people, and i wouldn't accept piecework or hourly completely by itself.

They need to give you some kind of deposit or you need to outline a clear project or time based contract working off of what your average time and workload has been for them so far.

I would it to be something along the lines of 50% of the amount of work you've done for them in that time period so far, with the understanding that the rest is based on sales but will not go under X amount which is say, 75%.

Jack up the price so that even if you only get 75% it wasn't a waste of your time. Sales is not your problem, it's their problem. You're making the widgets, they're selling them no?

My biggest regret in working with people like this now, is not charging some kind of deposit or percentage up front. They sure as hell have money right now, but you need to be at the top of the stack to get paid before they blow it all or come up with some kind of excuse as to why it's earmarked. Which i'd attribute to chef and lawyer, respectively.

Some of the hardest people to get cash out of for me as a contractor have been fairly wealthy/financially secure people griping and cheaping out on their hobby ventures when i send them a bill. Or they pay me ONCE and then ghost because they think they can hack it alone after paying the damn agreed upon price. definitely secure at least a couple months of income so when this blows up in your face you have a bit of a cushion(IN ADDITION TO THE SAVINGS YOU ALREADY HAVE, RIGHT?).

If they balk as soon as you demand some kind of security laugh all the way to wherever you end up working that isn't there.
posted by emptythought at 5:44 PM on January 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Neither has a working website. Instagram really doesn't count.

Also, as one of those dirty millennial snake people, yea it sort of does. It DOESN'T if their IG only has like 800 followers though. But if it has like, enough that it starts listing them as a whole number .whatever(like 10.5k) then yes, that's a real thing. Even if they're trying to get noticed by department stores or fashion brands.

I know more than a couple people who have launched their business entirely with IG. And yes, i mean actual businesses with offices and everything, not etsy stores. A solid IG presence is arguably more important than a website nowadays.

Honestly

Both believe they are creating new/novel/fascinating things. (They're not.)

Is way worse than that. Even just "on trend but not completely original" would be good, but if it's just meh stuff...?
posted by emptythought at 5:49 PM on January 12, 2016


Get your own job or start your own business. Both of them sound terrible at this, Lawyer is just slightly less bad.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:16 PM on January 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Are you actually getting a stable salary now? I've done contract freelance work for small, just getting off the ground, passion-based struggling startups, and what is common amongst them is nickle and diming their investment, especially in other people's work. They don't have money, they are bootstrapping and probably paying themselves minimally, which frequently translates to piecemeal money for everyone else working with them, too. I would expect money that looked like "I can give you $500 of work this month, $750 next month, but by the month after that it will be $2.5k. You don't want to bail now, do you?"
posted by instamatic at 3:40 AM on January 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I can't favorite instamatics post enough. I know this is my third post, but that's EXACTLY why you need a contract that clearly outlines what your base pay is for a project/time period. Otherwise you get $500 one month, then 450 the next "but next month will be a lot better, we just had our foobar-izer burn out and had to get a new one, and sales are basically flat from last month, things are tight you know?".

You give them ONE shot to completely miss a target. So if they say $1000 this month, $1500 next month and you get like $1050(or worse, $900), then if the month after that you don't get at least $1500 LEAVE. It will never get better, and if it does it wasn't worth the tears and you shouldn't feel bad that you "missed the boat". 90% of things like this never seen to get better, anecdotally.

Many of us on here have been there in these kinds of situations. You also need to look out for sales going way up and them banking cash suddenly, but when you discuss your cut going up "eh, things are tight, and we can't pay you more than we pay otherperson!".

Both are signs to get the hell out as soon as you run out "for a second" to starbucks or whatever. Just get in your car and never come back.
posted by emptythought at 1:45 PM on January 13, 2016


« Older I can't Sleep!   |   How much of classical antiquity was known in the... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.