I didn't ask you what you thought in the first place.
December 13, 2015 6:00 AM Subscribe
What do you do when people make unsolicited commentary about your appearance?
For some reason, people like to make lots of commentary about my appearance. I don't have a good method for dealing with this.
These unsolicited comments can come from (extended) family members, acquaintances, strangers, and people who I'm sure think are my friends. When I was younger, my parents used to constantly talk about my weight. I mean, constantly. Which baffles me looking back at pictures of myself from high school.
This commentary is often things like:
The size of my breasts
My weight
My hair (I am a black woman with natural hair, which apparently is ugly and unprofessional to many people and they feel the need to tell me that they think this)
My skin
The fact that I don't wear makeup or earrings
The fact that I rarely wear dresses/skirts
How ugly I am
How pretty I am
How I look "very angry" (when I'm just minding my own business shopping or walking around or whatever and definitely not asking you what you think of my face)
I have also, on too many occasions to count, have had men yell out "compliments" and when I ignore them, which I believe I am fully entitled to do, they berate me for not thanking them (as though I should thank people for making unsolicited commentary about my appearance).
All of this makes my blood boil. I find it so incredibly disrespectful, especially when, as a woman in my 30s, boys in their teens and 20s think they can speak to me this way (although this happens across the age spectrum and I don't think it's okay when older people do it either). I don't have any coping mechanism for any of this.
I am conscientious about my appearance. I try not to appear overly "feminine," so I don't usually participate in cultural markers of femininity, but I am conscious about the style, fit and trendiness, for lack of a better word, of my clothes, regularly work out, get my hair done, etc. I am borderline obsessed with my dental hygiene. All this is to say that I am sure this happens to everybody, and I don't see how I'm doing anything in particular to invite these rude comments.
Please help me learn how to deal with this. Is this something I should be discussing in therapy?
For some reason, people like to make lots of commentary about my appearance. I don't have a good method for dealing with this.
These unsolicited comments can come from (extended) family members, acquaintances, strangers, and people who I'm sure think are my friends. When I was younger, my parents used to constantly talk about my weight. I mean, constantly. Which baffles me looking back at pictures of myself from high school.
This commentary is often things like:
The size of my breasts
My weight
My hair (I am a black woman with natural hair, which apparently is ugly and unprofessional to many people and they feel the need to tell me that they think this)
My skin
The fact that I don't wear makeup or earrings
The fact that I rarely wear dresses/skirts
How ugly I am
How pretty I am
How I look "very angry" (when I'm just minding my own business shopping or walking around or whatever and definitely not asking you what you think of my face)
I have also, on too many occasions to count, have had men yell out "compliments" and when I ignore them, which I believe I am fully entitled to do, they berate me for not thanking them (as though I should thank people for making unsolicited commentary about my appearance).
All of this makes my blood boil. I find it so incredibly disrespectful, especially when, as a woman in my 30s, boys in their teens and 20s think they can speak to me this way (although this happens across the age spectrum and I don't think it's okay when older people do it either). I don't have any coping mechanism for any of this.
I am conscientious about my appearance. I try not to appear overly "feminine," so I don't usually participate in cultural markers of femininity, but I am conscious about the style, fit and trendiness, for lack of a better word, of my clothes, regularly work out, get my hair done, etc. I am borderline obsessed with my dental hygiene. All this is to say that I am sure this happens to everybody, and I don't see how I'm doing anything in particular to invite these rude comments.
Please help me learn how to deal with this. Is this something I should be discussing in therapy?
With street harassment, you can ignore or you can confront. I do about 50/50 depending on whether/how safe I feel. I usually go high-aggressive when I confront. Literally zero street harassers have not beat it hard the other way when, projecting with all the force of my voice I say, "I'm sorry, would you say that to your mother?" or "Did I FUCKING ASK you?" Being loud is pretty important because it makes other people near you have to notice, and these guys do not like other people noticing them being assholes.
If people are giving positive comments, it's usually from a place of -- they think it's socially acceptable? So I will absolutely tell a random person (woman or dude) "Hey, I like your scarf/earrings/dress/etc." If you don't want to participate with the compliments from people who aren't being jerks as above, just nod and or say thank you and move on. I think you can tell when it's coming from a place of friendliness and politeness.
With friends, if they're bothering you like this, you can educate them. "Hey it's great you think my boobs are great, but I really am not comfortable with comments like that about my body."
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:37 AM on December 13, 2015 [24 favorites]
If people are giving positive comments, it's usually from a place of -- they think it's socially acceptable? So I will absolutely tell a random person (woman or dude) "Hey, I like your scarf/earrings/dress/etc." If you don't want to participate with the compliments from people who aren't being jerks as above, just nod and or say thank you and move on. I think you can tell when it's coming from a place of friendliness and politeness.
With friends, if they're bothering you like this, you can educate them. "Hey it's great you think my boobs are great, but I really am not comfortable with comments like that about my body."
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:37 AM on December 13, 2015 [24 favorites]
I learned the best move I know from Broad City. You girls are so pretty. You should smile.
But usually when I get these comments I just try to end the interaction as quickly as possible, roll my eyes, and go back to not giving a shit.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 6:48 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
But usually when I get these comments I just try to end the interaction as quickly as possible, roll my eyes, and go back to not giving a shit.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 6:48 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
"That's good news for me, at any rate, since I can lose weight/get my ears pierced/get a boob job, but you'll still be a rude bitch/dickhead. It's too bad they haven't perfected personality transplants, isn't it?"
You can also just say calmly and with mild surprise, "Wow, how rude."
Or, if you want to get a little more obscure with it, say with great sympathy, like you're really sorry they just revealed this obvious defect about themselves, "It must have been tough being raised by wolves." ["Whut?" "Well I mean since you have no manners and obviously never had a mother to teach you any better." "I have a mom!" "Oh ... how sad for her."]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:55 AM on December 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
You can also just say calmly and with mild surprise, "Wow, how rude."
Or, if you want to get a little more obscure with it, say with great sympathy, like you're really sorry they just revealed this obvious defect about themselves, "It must have been tough being raised by wolves." ["Whut?" "Well I mean since you have no manners and obviously never had a mother to teach you any better." "I have a mom!" "Oh ... how sad for her."]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:55 AM on December 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
I do try to figure out if people are
- being mean/negging me
- being nice but screwing it up (i.e. too personal, bs " you'd be pretty if you smile" comments)
- just being friendly when I am feeling prickly
I think some people make comments just to be talking, or because that's manners to them. I get complimented about things that are NOT my appearance sometimes (my name, a thing I brought to a potluck) so I know I have some issues about just graciously accepting sincere compliments also. This does not mean that it's my social JOB to take compliments nicely and politely, just that I have some work to do on my end also.
The big deal, as you've seen, is that people have different definitions about what constitutes normal and acceptable ways to talk about women and you've had some shitty people in your past (I had a grandma like this, always there with the subtly shitty comments) which sort of predisposes you to assume shittiness. Also, the age-old adage that you can't really control other people (but you can have more give and take with friends and some family) so the reality is that you're in a world of managing this, not having it go away.
I am lucky in that I am somewhat spacey and so a lot of times I don't hear people at first when they make these comments. I've found that if people are dissing you and you make them repeat it like "Huh what did you say?" it's an opportunity for them to either make a better comment or think on the fact that what they were saying wasn't so great. Alternately, a very no-drama "please don't make random comments about my body" (or without the please) can get the point across. You can then sometimes deal with the "Oooo so touchy" shit later.
I have a friend who is obsessed with skinny women in what I consider a weird hatey way. She is not skinny herself and has a bunch of weight-related concerns about herself and the world generally. I am not skinny but I am on the lighter side of medium. She comments on what I eat pretty much ALL the time, she's just like that. But she is a friend and I know this is a lot more about her than me. So I try to be charitable and compassionate because I've ascertained that it's not about me. At the same time, I don't suffer negging even from her and we are friends so I'll just say "You know, that sounds sort of snarkier than maybe you meant it" or "Hey I don't talk about your weight and I'd appreciate you not talking about mine" or my favorite "Hey I thought we were having a nice time here" if someone is just hellbent on getting into it.
People bring their own weirdness into the world. Mine is that I'd like to be invisible or neutral and just not having my appearance be a topic of conversation, but this is sort of not something I get to pick so I try to work towards the middle when I can.
posted by jessamyn at 7:04 AM on December 13, 2015 [13 favorites]
- being mean/negging me
- being nice but screwing it up (i.e. too personal, bs " you'd be pretty if you smile" comments)
- just being friendly when I am feeling prickly
I think some people make comments just to be talking, or because that's manners to them. I get complimented about things that are NOT my appearance sometimes (my name, a thing I brought to a potluck) so I know I have some issues about just graciously accepting sincere compliments also. This does not mean that it's my social JOB to take compliments nicely and politely, just that I have some work to do on my end also.
The big deal, as you've seen, is that people have different definitions about what constitutes normal and acceptable ways to talk about women and you've had some shitty people in your past (I had a grandma like this, always there with the subtly shitty comments) which sort of predisposes you to assume shittiness. Also, the age-old adage that you can't really control other people (but you can have more give and take with friends and some family) so the reality is that you're in a world of managing this, not having it go away.
I am lucky in that I am somewhat spacey and so a lot of times I don't hear people at first when they make these comments. I've found that if people are dissing you and you make them repeat it like "Huh what did you say?" it's an opportunity for them to either make a better comment or think on the fact that what they were saying wasn't so great. Alternately, a very no-drama "please don't make random comments about my body" (or without the please) can get the point across. You can then sometimes deal with the "Oooo so touchy" shit later.
I have a friend who is obsessed with skinny women in what I consider a weird hatey way. She is not skinny herself and has a bunch of weight-related concerns about herself and the world generally. I am not skinny but I am on the lighter side of medium. She comments on what I eat pretty much ALL the time, she's just like that. But she is a friend and I know this is a lot more about her than me. So I try to be charitable and compassionate because I've ascertained that it's not about me. At the same time, I don't suffer negging even from her and we are friends so I'll just say "You know, that sounds sort of snarkier than maybe you meant it" or "Hey I don't talk about your weight and I'd appreciate you not talking about mine" or my favorite "Hey I thought we were having a nice time here" if someone is just hellbent on getting into it.
People bring their own weirdness into the world. Mine is that I'd like to be invisible or neutral and just not having my appearance be a topic of conversation, but this is sort of not something I get to pick so I try to work towards the middle when I can.
posted by jessamyn at 7:04 AM on December 13, 2015 [13 favorites]
I say, "Excuse me?" or-- if it's a question-- repeat the question like I am just checking to see if that's what they said. "You're asking me if I've gained weight?" "
posted by BibiRose at 7:06 AM on December 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 7:06 AM on December 13, 2015 [11 favorites]
There is no response that will convey the depth of rudeness, casual misogyny and entrenched patriarchy to the stranger who believes her (or she) is entitled to your attention to their remarks. So, your response has to be based entirely on what you want out of the interaction, knowing that your response will not enlighten the commentor. You're not going to get closure from a snappy rejoinder.
Personally, I've practiced the 10,000 yard stare and the ability to appear to that I don't hear anything strangers shout at me. For me, the most emotionally satisfying response is the one that conveys no engagement whatsoever. I was once leaving court when some dick who'd been in the galley followed me out to offer some version of the professional "hey babe i'm a drooling poorly socialized grown man who's about to say something demeaning" and while he was talking to me, I kept my eyes just the side of his, so I was clearly not bothering to look him in the eye, but also not lowering my gaze in some sort of subservient gesture and the moment he stopped speaking, continued walking away without a word, or looking at my watch, or turning on my heel.
For family members, I say "I am not having this conversation with you." or "The patriarchy hurts everyone" (the latter with an eye roll), unless it's a sincere compliment or question. If I can't figure it out, sometimes I'll ask "is that a sincere question because I can't tell." For acquaintances, I change the subject.
With people you know, you can possibly educate a little by sharing essays or books or art and your own thoughts about this issues with them. Not as a response to the comment, but as a conversation of its own. But most importantly, with people you know, you can establish conversational boundaries with "please don't talk about my weight/hair/wardrobe with me" enough times, refusing to explain beyond "I prefer not to discuss it."
posted by crush-onastick at 7:14 AM on December 13, 2015 [20 favorites]
Personally, I've practiced the 10,000 yard stare and the ability to appear to that I don't hear anything strangers shout at me. For me, the most emotionally satisfying response is the one that conveys no engagement whatsoever. I was once leaving court when some dick who'd been in the galley followed me out to offer some version of the professional "hey babe i'm a drooling poorly socialized grown man who's about to say something demeaning" and while he was talking to me, I kept my eyes just the side of his, so I was clearly not bothering to look him in the eye, but also not lowering my gaze in some sort of subservient gesture and the moment he stopped speaking, continued walking away without a word, or looking at my watch, or turning on my heel.
For family members, I say "I am not having this conversation with you." or "The patriarchy hurts everyone" (the latter with an eye roll), unless it's a sincere compliment or question. If I can't figure it out, sometimes I'll ask "is that a sincere question because I can't tell." For acquaintances, I change the subject.
With people you know, you can possibly educate a little by sharing essays or books or art and your own thoughts about this issues with them. Not as a response to the comment, but as a conversation of its own. But most importantly, with people you know, you can establish conversational boundaries with "please don't talk about my weight/hair/wardrobe with me" enough times, refusing to explain beyond "I prefer not to discuss it."
posted by crush-onastick at 7:14 AM on December 13, 2015 [20 favorites]
The finger is often an appropriate response, but that's partly me being lazy.
One of the great things about getting older (I'm in my 40s now!) is that I can now use the "I'm old enough to be your mother, would you say that to your mother? No? Well, I'd hope not, that's really disrespectful, you should really stop harrassing women in public" line. I use that a lot. It works!
My response to "when are you going to get in shape?" is "I am in shape. My shape."
My response to (usually complimentary but unsolicited and therefore unwelcome) comments about my breasts or ass is "Yes". It is disconcerting and gives me an opportunity to walk away / change the subject.
And if someone tells me that I look angry, or tells me to smile, I ask them why they care what my face looks like. Their response dictates my response, which is usually along the lines of me not being on this earth to look pretty for them, and if I feel harrassed, I'm going to look pissed off.
I don't think you necessarily need therapy to deal with this. It is one of the downsides of being a woman. But you don't need to take it. And clearly, you're not. You can find your own ways of responding that feel comfortable for you. You shouldn't have to be in that position in the first place, but I hope that by standing up to these kind of comments, our daughters will not have to go through the same things that we go through. xx
posted by finding.perdita at 7:31 AM on December 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
One of the great things about getting older (I'm in my 40s now!) is that I can now use the "I'm old enough to be your mother, would you say that to your mother? No? Well, I'd hope not, that's really disrespectful, you should really stop harrassing women in public" line. I use that a lot. It works!
My response to "when are you going to get in shape?" is
My response to (usually complimentary but unsolicited and therefore unwelcome) comments about my breasts or ass is "Yes". It is disconcerting and gives me an opportunity to walk away / change the subject.
And if someone tells me that I look angry, or tells me to smile, I ask them why they care what my face looks like. Their response dictates my response, which is usually along the lines of me not being on this earth to look pretty for them, and if I feel harrassed, I'm going to look pissed off.
I don't think you necessarily need therapy to deal with this. It is one of the downsides of being a woman. But you don't need to take it. And clearly, you're not. You can find your own ways of responding that feel comfortable for you. You shouldn't have to be in that position in the first place, but I hope that by standing up to these kind of comments, our daughters will not have to go through the same things that we go through. xx
posted by finding.perdita at 7:31 AM on December 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
It is one of the downsides of being a woman. QFT.
Sounds like you have a finely-tuned sense of how your choices about self-presentation are being policed, both by strangers and folks you know. You're not doing anything to invite commentary; you're rocking your own look, and that's enough. All of those comments? They're bullshit proxies for power plays, and you have this internet stranger's permission to ignore the content in situationally-appropriate ways.
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:35 AM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Sounds like you have a finely-tuned sense of how your choices about self-presentation are being policed, both by strangers and folks you know. You're not doing anything to invite commentary; you're rocking your own look, and that's enough. All of those comments? They're bullshit proxies for power plays, and you have this internet stranger's permission to ignore the content in situationally-appropriate ways.
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:35 AM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's situational, and I'm a sarcastic, passive-aggressive asshole on occasions that call for it.
1. If friendly but misguided compliment: Thank you (not worth the energy.)
2. If backhanded compliment or criticism: Wow, that's harsh and hurts my feelings. (guilt, guilt, guilt.)
3. If downright mean and nasty: Ignore, pointedly ignore, turn around and walk away, or say, "If I want any shit from you, I'll squeeze your head."
4. Randos catcalling: Extended middle finger, ignore or "You WISH!"
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:11 AM on December 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
1. If friendly but misguided compliment: Thank you (not worth the energy.)
2. If backhanded compliment or criticism: Wow, that's harsh and hurts my feelings. (guilt, guilt, guilt.)
3. If downright mean and nasty: Ignore, pointedly ignore, turn around and walk away, or say, "If I want any shit from you, I'll squeeze your head."
4. Randos catcalling: Extended middle finger, ignore or "You WISH!"
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:11 AM on December 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
For straight up harassment, in situations where I'm trapped (like on a bus) but don't feel in physical danger, I like to start off with a calm, cool-toned echo of the original line. "Why are you telling me that I'd look better in a dress." Don't smile, don't glare, say it direct but flatly. No upspeak. Make the last question sound slightly sincere. The jerk will either stutter or deepen the hole. "Well I just think you'd be really pretty / You've got a great ass / Damn! Just giving you a compliment.” Then I say forcefully, but in a slow cadence, "No, you see, I didn't ask you how you *felt* about me. Because I don't care. I asked you why you opened your mouth at all." They get hurt, either quiet or angry. I'll draw attention to them if there's a crowd, furthering my general air of disdain. Sometimes I even go down their body, head to toe, and make par for par critiques of the things I think should be improved. After all, my opinions and visual pleasures are equally important.
posted by fritillary at 8:11 AM on December 13, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by fritillary at 8:11 AM on December 13, 2015 [19 favorites]
I'm on the curvy side and get a lot of comments from family, or friends' family, about my weight/body/etc. My favourite tactic for responding to people I actually care about is a totally neutral/friendly denial of the comment or critique. This shuts the conversation down while still keeping things civil.
- "Have you lost weight?" "No, I don't think I have." (If it's "have you gained weight," same response every time. If they keep going, "No, I really haven't changed. But what about you? How's YOUR weight?")
- "You should do something else with your hair." "I am really loving my hair right now."
- "You should wear makeup/earrings/dresses more often!" "I really prefer not to."
Sometimes it might also work to turn the comment around. "You're so pretty" "So are you." (totally deadpan though! and most effective when said to men). When the comments are offensive (ugly, look angry), I would go with "Excuse me, what did you say?" as some folks have mentioned above. I think most people, especially if it's anyone you know, will realize they're out of line and not repeat that bullshit.
With men on the street, so long as I'm in a place where I feel safe, I give them the finger, which sometimes makes me feel better, but not always. Ultimately, this shit is upsetting; I have no ideas about how to deal with it in a way that makes it less upsetting. Sometimes a good comeback is satisfying, but the initial comment still makes me angry.
posted by snorkmaiden at 8:22 AM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
- "Have you lost weight?" "No, I don't think I have." (If it's "have you gained weight," same response every time. If they keep going, "No, I really haven't changed. But what about you? How's YOUR weight?")
- "You should do something else with your hair." "I am really loving my hair right now."
- "You should wear makeup/earrings/dresses more often!" "I really prefer not to."
Sometimes it might also work to turn the comment around. "You're so pretty" "So are you." (totally deadpan though! and most effective when said to men). When the comments are offensive (ugly, look angry), I would go with "Excuse me, what did you say?" as some folks have mentioned above. I think most people, especially if it's anyone you know, will realize they're out of line and not repeat that bullshit.
With men on the street, so long as I'm in a place where I feel safe, I give them the finger, which sometimes makes me feel better, but not always. Ultimately, this shit is upsetting; I have no ideas about how to deal with it in a way that makes it less upsetting. Sometimes a good comeback is satisfying, but the initial comment still makes me angry.
posted by snorkmaiden at 8:22 AM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
People. Are. Ridiculous.
Nthing everything here about misogyny and power plays. Sadly those people exist everywhere and their shitty comments are their (conscious or not) ways of asserting dominance or power
Despite hygiene, self care, dressing well and being put together, I still had the influx of comments too. I found that in addition to all awesome advice above was to observe my posture and how I carry myself in different situations. The moment I stopped looking at the floor and started walking with my head up. Shoulders back, eyes forward, like I had a purpose was when a drastic amount of the unsolicited comments stopped.
I still get the "smile" etc. from misogenistic jerky people who I don't know, but that's part of being a woman in the city I suppose. I still get a variety of comments from well-meaning relatives, but the "Wow. (Uncomfortable 3 second pause) that was a really rude/personal/mean question" typically shuts them up. I still make eye contact and smile and say 'hi' to strangers and try not to be a hardened bitch in general, but when people go beyond "well meaning" is when my newly honed instinct kicks in. Shoulders back, stand tall and powerful...just this act of making yourself bigger is intimidating to them without you even having to utter a word. People shut the hell up or realize quickly that they pooped on you out of their mouths. Gross.
I also found that one word answers without elaboration tend to stop people pretty quickly too because you aren't giving them the interaction they are looking for.
You look so angry!
YUP. (Yeah or Yes also works well, then go back to doing what you're doing)
You've put on a little weight since I last saw you.
Yeah, I have.
Have you ever thought about getting your hair done?
Yeah, I have.
Geez, you're running late today, we were wondering when you would get here!
Yes. I'm late today.
Hey! You'd be so much prettier if you smiled!
...
(Internally) THIS LAST ONE DESERVES NO RESOONSE. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO YOU MOTHERFUCKING CROMAGNUM ASSHOLE
posted by floweredfish at 8:39 AM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nthing everything here about misogyny and power plays. Sadly those people exist everywhere and their shitty comments are their (conscious or not) ways of asserting dominance or power
Despite hygiene, self care, dressing well and being put together, I still had the influx of comments too. I found that in addition to all awesome advice above was to observe my posture and how I carry myself in different situations. The moment I stopped looking at the floor and started walking with my head up. Shoulders back, eyes forward, like I had a purpose was when a drastic amount of the unsolicited comments stopped.
I still get the "smile" etc. from misogenistic jerky people who I don't know, but that's part of being a woman in the city I suppose. I still get a variety of comments from well-meaning relatives, but the "Wow. (Uncomfortable 3 second pause) that was a really rude/personal/mean question" typically shuts them up. I still make eye contact and smile and say 'hi' to strangers and try not to be a hardened bitch in general, but when people go beyond "well meaning" is when my newly honed instinct kicks in. Shoulders back, stand tall and powerful...just this act of making yourself bigger is intimidating to them without you even having to utter a word. People shut the hell up or realize quickly that they pooped on you out of their mouths. Gross.
I also found that one word answers without elaboration tend to stop people pretty quickly too because you aren't giving them the interaction they are looking for.
You look so angry!
YUP. (Yeah or Yes also works well, then go back to doing what you're doing)
You've put on a little weight since I last saw you.
Yeah, I have.
Have you ever thought about getting your hair done?
Yeah, I have.
Geez, you're running late today, we were wondering when you would get here!
Yes. I'm late today.
Hey! You'd be so much prettier if you smiled!
...
(Internally) THIS LAST ONE DESERVES NO RESOONSE. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO YOU MOTHERFUCKING CROMAGNUM ASSHOLE
posted by floweredfish at 8:39 AM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
For the casual acquaintances and street harassment, if I feel like it's safe to do so, I try to say firmly, loudly and without emotion, "Don't talk to me like that." Maybe an additional.. "Don't talk to me like that. It's disrespectful."
posted by citron at 9:01 AM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by citron at 9:01 AM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you need to "get a little thicker skin" about this sort of thing. If it's coming from someone You could give a flying fig about you could just say "Thank You you're too kind " no matter what they say.
My Dad would call that throwing them a curve ball. Let them wonder about what you thought.
posted by BarcelonaRed at 9:22 AM on December 13, 2015
My Dad would call that throwing them a curve ball. Let them wonder about what you thought.
posted by BarcelonaRed at 9:22 AM on December 13, 2015
Sometimes a sincere and hearty "Go fuck yourself!" works wonders.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:30 AM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:30 AM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is that you I smell?
posted by Freedomboy at 9:38 AM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Freedomboy at 9:38 AM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Random weirdos: I pretend I don't speak their language (which I don't) and just ignore them. I've actually had people follow me down the street or make hand gestures as if to pull out earphones which I'm not wearing. I just ignore them completely. There's absolutely nothing to be gained from any engagement. Are they going to offer me a prize or something? Turn out to be scintillating conversationalists?
Friends: I don't maintain chosen relationships with people who judge others in this way. I have dropped friends over this. If they don't understand how offensive this is, we have different values and probably not much in common. This may be a luxury not everyone can afford.
Family: I just overlook it when my grandma or my weird cousins do this. Just say, "Oh, sorry, I think I need to talk to so-and-so" and walk away to talk to someone else. I do this with weird compliments too (like "You look so good! Have you lost weight?").
Co-workers, etc.: I'd just be straight up: "I prefer not to discuss appearance. Let's talk about something more important!"
posted by 3491again at 9:44 AM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Friends: I don't maintain chosen relationships with people who judge others in this way. I have dropped friends over this. If they don't understand how offensive this is, we have different values and probably not much in common. This may be a luxury not everyone can afford.
Family: I just overlook it when my grandma or my weird cousins do this. Just say, "Oh, sorry, I think I need to talk to so-and-so" and walk away to talk to someone else. I do this with weird compliments too (like "You look so good! Have you lost weight?").
Co-workers, etc.: I'd just be straight up: "I prefer not to discuss appearance. Let's talk about something more important!"
posted by 3491again at 9:44 AM on December 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the ultimate response to this from family is "okay." Just "okay", every time "okay", even when they escalate "okay". When pushing your buttons is boring or starts to make them look weird, maybe they'll stop.
(I'm assuming "I don't give a fuck what your boner thinks," which is my *internal* response to body-policing, isn't an option.)
posted by Lyn Never at 9:46 AM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
(I'm assuming "I don't give a fuck what your boner thinks," which is my *internal* response to body-policing, isn't an option.)
posted by Lyn Never at 9:46 AM on December 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
My most satisfying reply to "Smile," or any other content that amounts to a stranger telling me what to do, is "Jump."
posted by jessicapierce at 9:50 AM on December 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by jessicapierce at 9:50 AM on December 13, 2015 [14 favorites]
I think this is literally how "Aw, bless your heart," with a smile and a change of subject, was invented. Not everyone can pull that off.
In professional settings, I'd say, "That's a very personal comment/question!" And change the subject. If it were a supervisor, you might ask, "Is this official policy?"
posted by zennie at 10:10 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
In professional settings, I'd say, "That's a very personal comment/question!" And change the subject. If it were a supervisor, you might ask, "Is this official policy?"
posted by zennie at 10:10 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Out of the mouth of the 16 year old in my house: Fuck you.
In her case, a boy at school told her she needs braces.
"Fuck you."
She explained to me that "fuck you" was the kindest most neutral thing she could say. Because he has an acne problem, and she could've commented on that.
"Fuck you" was the high road.
She's right.
posted by vitabellosi at 10:30 AM on December 13, 2015 [52 favorites]
In her case, a boy at school told her she needs braces.
"Fuck you."
She explained to me that "fuck you" was the kindest most neutral thing she could say. Because he has an acne problem, and she could've commented on that.
"Fuck you" was the high road.
She's right.
posted by vitabellosi at 10:30 AM on December 13, 2015 [52 favorites]
I have thought about this a lot because, as a woman, I do feel like I'm vulnerable and need to be prepared for such comments even if it hasn't happened to me yet. In theory my plan is to put on my best poker face (or maybe a confused face depending on the situation) and say "okay" and just stare. In reality I'd probably freeze on the spot and say something defensive.
posted by joan_holloway at 11:03 AM on December 13, 2015
posted by joan_holloway at 11:03 AM on December 13, 2015
I'm a big fan of a pause, a pointed look, and a "...wow."
posted by Automocar at 11:08 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 11:08 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
This happens to me. I think it happens to all women. Each type of response can garner a different reaction...and your results may vary based on your personality and comfort level - but this is what I do.
1. Young man shouting at you on the street. Response: Whoa, I'm old enough to be your mom...are you into that sort of thing? (with quizzical look suggesting that they are into incest).
2. Man same age or older shouting on the street. Response: Yeah, no thanks (eye roll)
3. Person you know commenting negatively or positively, but in a creepy way. Response: So this is awkward, I'm not sure why you would tell me this...and then wait for a response, as in you are really curious why they would say that. And when they say something in response, make them feel very awkward, and say, "ok, that was just weird, maybe don't say that in the future."
4. Person you know commenting positively. Response: Thank you!
As an added note, I noticed that my male coworkers in particular would often make strange commentary about my clothing, like "wow, that dress with stripes is making me dizzy!" or "That is a lot of red!" I asked them if concern about sexual harassment in the workplace made it so they felt that they could not compliment my clothing or comment when I looked good, but that they *could* comment when something was different, and they basically agreed that that was the case. I told them that they could just not comment on anything and that would be better over all. The comments have stopped.
posted by Toddles at 11:30 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
1. Young man shouting at you on the street. Response: Whoa, I'm old enough to be your mom...are you into that sort of thing? (with quizzical look suggesting that they are into incest).
2. Man same age or older shouting on the street. Response: Yeah, no thanks (eye roll)
3. Person you know commenting negatively or positively, but in a creepy way. Response: So this is awkward, I'm not sure why you would tell me this...and then wait for a response, as in you are really curious why they would say that. And when they say something in response, make them feel very awkward, and say, "ok, that was just weird, maybe don't say that in the future."
4. Person you know commenting positively. Response: Thank you!
As an added note, I noticed that my male coworkers in particular would often make strange commentary about my clothing, like "wow, that dress with stripes is making me dizzy!" or "That is a lot of red!" I asked them if concern about sexual harassment in the workplace made it so they felt that they could not compliment my clothing or comment when I looked good, but that they *could* comment when something was different, and they basically agreed that that was the case. I told them that they could just not comment on anything and that would be better over all. The comments have stopped.
posted by Toddles at 11:30 AM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
As to why you are getting comments why others are not, it could be that people think "if you made more effort you'd be gorgeous" etc. or they wonder why you aren't putting effort into looking more feminine. As in "why doesn't she see her POTENTIAL" (in quotation marks, because, really?) You are cutting across someone's grain, and they cannot believe someone might actually have a different opinion regarding personal appearance than them, or society at large, whatever.
As you and I both understand it, these are things that are really none of their concern, but people be cray. I myself am guilty of asking one of my daughters why she doesn't think about grooming her (very unkempt) eyebrows but as she rightly put it, they are HERS and she likes them fine as they are. And yes, I need to shut my yap about it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:34 AM on December 13, 2015
As you and I both understand it, these are things that are really none of their concern, but people be cray. I myself am guilty of asking one of my daughters why she doesn't think about grooming her (very unkempt) eyebrows but as she rightly put it, they are HERS and she likes them fine as they are. And yes, I need to shut my yap about it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:34 AM on December 13, 2015
Is this something I should be discussing in therapy?
Yes.
(extended) family members, acquaintances... and people who I'm sure think are my friends
Generally, trying to control you: acting in a way where their opinion of your appearance is more important than your opinions. Possibly trying to make you feel bad; hating things about themselves that they pick up on in you. Possibly trying "constructive criticism" out of a "loving place". Possibly trying to show affection to you when they say how pretty you are--but then, too, sometimes that comes across as controlling, as in they are trying to get you to change with praise instead of criticism.
strangers
Definitely trying to control you and assert dominance over you.
My hair (I am a black woman with natural hair, which apparently is ugly and unprofessional to many people and they feel the need to tell me that they think this)
Granted, I am a clueless white lady, and you don't specify who particularly is giving you the comments about your hair (which if they were given to you in a professional context are textbook racial harassment). But also because you said your parents were constantly commenting on your weight, and you get a lot of comments about how your appearance is not "feminine enough"... do you think, in the minds of some of your family and friends, there's this major concern with "respectability", which is why they may still be trying to control your appearance? That is, they are concerned (selfishly) that your appearance reflects on them or their group?
Sometimes in groups or families, too, there's almost a jealousy when they see people with more... mental freedom? perhaps? It's like "I made all these sacrifices; I made all this effort to be respectable; this person isn't making that effort but actually has a decent life; in fact they don't care about all the respectability/beauty work I've had to do; did I waste my efforts? or if I didn't, why are they in a situation of freedom and I'm not", and sometimes that comes out as hostility towards the other person.
posted by Hypatia at 12:15 PM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes.
(extended) family members, acquaintances... and people who I'm sure think are my friends
Generally, trying to control you: acting in a way where their opinion of your appearance is more important than your opinions. Possibly trying to make you feel bad; hating things about themselves that they pick up on in you. Possibly trying "constructive criticism" out of a "loving place". Possibly trying to show affection to you when they say how pretty you are--but then, too, sometimes that comes across as controlling, as in they are trying to get you to change with praise instead of criticism.
strangers
Definitely trying to control you and assert dominance over you.
My hair (I am a black woman with natural hair, which apparently is ugly and unprofessional to many people and they feel the need to tell me that they think this)
Granted, I am a clueless white lady, and you don't specify who particularly is giving you the comments about your hair (which if they were given to you in a professional context are textbook racial harassment). But also because you said your parents were constantly commenting on your weight, and you get a lot of comments about how your appearance is not "feminine enough"... do you think, in the minds of some of your family and friends, there's this major concern with "respectability", which is why they may still be trying to control your appearance? That is, they are concerned (selfishly) that your appearance reflects on them or their group?
Sometimes in groups or families, too, there's almost a jealousy when they see people with more... mental freedom? perhaps? It's like "I made all these sacrifices; I made all this effort to be respectable; this person isn't making that effort but actually has a decent life; in fact they don't care about all the respectability/beauty work I've had to do; did I waste my efforts? or if I didn't, why are they in a situation of freedom and I'm not", and sometimes that comes out as hostility towards the other person.
posted by Hypatia at 12:15 PM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think this is definitely a thing you can and should discuss in therapy. its not going to take away these incredibly enraging experiences, but it can help you acquire some coping mechanisms that will work for you. A way to deal with the (understandably) strong feelings these interactions are causing you.
I am sorry that you have been so bombarded with this rudeness. I too am a woman (although white) and I have had many of these experiences. sometimes the best thing we can do (for ourselves) is learn how to not give these asshats the response they are trying to provoke.
posted by supermedusa at 1:10 PM on December 13, 2015
I am sorry that you have been so bombarded with this rudeness. I too am a woman (although white) and I have had many of these experiences. sometimes the best thing we can do (for ourselves) is learn how to not give these asshats the response they are trying to provoke.
posted by supermedusa at 1:10 PM on December 13, 2015
Random Man: You should smile more.
OP: You should lose 20 kilos. Oh, I thought it was my turn to give unwanted advice to complete strangers. Isn't that what we're doing?
Smile and walk off.
Sometimes the only way to let complete assholes know they're being complete assholes is to give them a taste of their own medicine.
posted by Jubey at 2:33 PM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
OP: You should lose 20 kilos. Oh, I thought it was my turn to give unwanted advice to complete strangers. Isn't that what we're doing?
Smile and walk off.
Sometimes the only way to let complete assholes know they're being complete assholes is to give them a taste of their own medicine.
posted by Jubey at 2:33 PM on December 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I believe I stole this from Carolyn Hax: "You must be so embarrassed that you said that out loud."
posted by babelfish at 4:06 PM on December 13, 2015 [28 favorites]
posted by babelfish at 4:06 PM on December 13, 2015 [28 favorites]
I think your subject line is actually great for this.
"I didn't ask you."
When dealing with friends/family: "Thanks, but I didn't ask you for your opinion."
When dealing with random assholes: "WHO THE FUCK asked YOU for your opinion?"
Something in between: "...Okay. I didn't ask you for your opinion."
If they insist, just tell them calmly and sincerely, no matter what they're saying, that you don't care. As often as it takes.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:25 AM on December 14, 2015
"I didn't ask you."
When dealing with friends/family: "Thanks, but I didn't ask you for your opinion."
When dealing with random assholes: "WHO THE FUCK asked YOU for your opinion?"
Something in between: "...Okay. I didn't ask you for your opinion."
If they insist, just tell them calmly and sincerely, no matter what they're saying, that you don't care. As often as it takes.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:25 AM on December 14, 2015
Joy Nash nailed all this stuff
https://youtu.be/PyQ_IKkAM9I
posted by lifethatihavenotlivedyet at 3:35 AM on December 14, 2015
https://youtu.be/PyQ_IKkAM9I
posted by lifethatihavenotlivedyet at 3:35 AM on December 14, 2015
For strangers who offer you unwanted advice or comments: "You don't get out much, do you?"
posted by SillyShepherd at 4:01 AM on December 14, 2015
posted by SillyShepherd at 4:01 AM on December 14, 2015
I didn't ask you what you thought in the first place.
I like this!
Followed by "And I could care less."
posted by BlueHorse at 8:11 PM on December 14, 2015
I like this!
Followed by "And I could care less."
posted by BlueHorse at 8:11 PM on December 14, 2015
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1) If friendly, I generally roll with it--standard replies are "The password is 'Ho, ho, ho.'" Or, "I cut my hair once a decade whether I need it or not."
2) If it's a put-down or some silly play at social dominance, I generally fight fire with fire (so this may not work for you if you are nicer than me: Sample rote responses, "I'll think about cutting my hair when I can soap it up and wash my balls." Or, "You should see my balls, it's like steel wool down there." And if I want to be slightly obtuse, I say: "You know, one of the most difficult things a person can do is to take a good, hard look in the mirror."
My tweaking responses aside, mostly, I suggest just being comfortable with yourself. There are a lot of small people out there and it's best not to let them drag you down into their petty bullshit.
posted by CincyBlues at 6:16 AM on December 13, 2015 [5 favorites]