Not funny "ha-ha."
December 11, 2015 8:22 AM Subscribe
Sparked by this question, I started thinking again about a sort of group of personal theories I have about some artist, works, etc. that are not generally talked about as funny, but I believe are best thought of, if not originally intended as, very dry or dark comedy. I'm curious about two things: Is there anyone else who has written or talked about these kinds of, or these specific works in this way? What other writers, artists, or specific works fit this idea?
Some examples I can think of right now in rough order of certainty that I'm not the only one who thinks this:
Kafka. Metamorphosis is his work I know best. I know that I'm not the only one who reads Kafka this way.
Werner Herzog. It clicked for me when I saw this monologue from Burden of Dreams about the obscenity of the jungle. It's a dark shaggy dog joke. "This is a land that God - if he exists - made in anger." LOL. He tells a similarly structured story in My Best Fiend about how he's got a can of gas in his car and after careful consideration, he's on his way to kill Klaus Kinski, but then he stops and goes home because he remembers he's afraid of Kinski's dog. Of course not all of his movies are comedies, but once I recognized his humor, it does pervade his work.
Albert Camus. Coming on the heels of the absurd bleakness of Nausea (which I'm not sure shouldn't be on this list), I think that The Stranger is in some ways taking the piss out of Sartre. It's been some time since I last read it, but, "Maman died today. Or yesterday maybe, I don’t know." and the whole, "My god! The sun! I must... shoot this Arab!" Come on.
Romeo and Juliet. These kids are idiots. Their friends are sort of bumbling around killing each other because they are also idiots. The priest's monologue is to this effect. Nobody ever plays it this way.
Some examples I can think of right now in rough order of certainty that I'm not the only one who thinks this:
Kafka. Metamorphosis is his work I know best. I know that I'm not the only one who reads Kafka this way.
Werner Herzog. It clicked for me when I saw this monologue from Burden of Dreams about the obscenity of the jungle. It's a dark shaggy dog joke. "This is a land that God - if he exists - made in anger." LOL. He tells a similarly structured story in My Best Fiend about how he's got a can of gas in his car and after careful consideration, he's on his way to kill Klaus Kinski, but then he stops and goes home because he remembers he's afraid of Kinski's dog. Of course not all of his movies are comedies, but once I recognized his humor, it does pervade his work.
Albert Camus. Coming on the heels of the absurd bleakness of Nausea (which I'm not sure shouldn't be on this list), I think that The Stranger is in some ways taking the piss out of Sartre. It's been some time since I last read it, but, "Maman died today. Or yesterday maybe, I don’t know." and the whole, "My god! The sun! I must... shoot this Arab!" Come on.
Romeo and Juliet. These kids are idiots. Their friends are sort of bumbling around killing each other because they are also idiots. The priest's monologue is to this effect. Nobody ever plays it this way.
Romeo and Juliet. These kids are idiots. Their friends are sort of bumbling around killing each other because they are also idiots. The priest's monologue is to this effect. Nobody ever plays it this way.
I don't know that that's true. It's certainly taught that way in school (though not, if what you're getting at is they're somehow exceptionally idiotic, just that they're idiots because they're kids).
posted by juv3nal at 8:31 AM on December 11, 2015
I don't know that that's true. It's certainly taught that way in school (though not, if what you're getting at is they're somehow exceptionally idiotic, just that they're idiots because they're kids).
posted by juv3nal at 8:31 AM on December 11, 2015
Re Dadaists/absurdists, I remember screaming with laughter the first time I read Daniil Kharms. I was a kid though, so a) I had no preconceived ideas about absurdism as a Serious Artistic Movement and b) kids generally have a goofier sense of humor so it was right up my alley. That said, I still lol when I read Kharms.
posted by Aubergine at 8:46 AM on December 11, 2015
posted by Aubergine at 8:46 AM on December 11, 2015
I was going to mention Daniil Kharms as well; non-Russians tend to have a hard time seeing the humor, it's so dark.
posted by languagehat at 9:16 AM on December 11, 2015
posted by languagehat at 9:16 AM on December 11, 2015
I just watched the H.R. Giger documentary Dark Star. It opens with a ~10 minute wordless visual sequence of shots leading up to Giger's house. Suddenly we see Giger, who approaches a cabinet of human skulls and lifts one out. It is very old and worn. In the first spoken words of the documentary, Giger says, "This is my first skull. My father gave it to me when I was a boy."
I exploded in laughter.
Some of what you describe can be best described, I think, as simple irony (Herzog/Camus). Irony as comedy, potentially intentional. Some of your other examples, and this Giger example, are still irony, but projected irony... unintentional irony... observational irony. We find earnestness funny for its absence of self-awareness these days (e.g. doom goth kids shopping at a megacorp store in the mall; overwrought tilt-shit pictures of backyard farmers' chickens using a $2,400 camera; nihilists ordering berry pancakes at a brightly lit diner; etc.).
People have written a lot about irony and comedy (even with reference to Romeo and Juliet).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:20 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I exploded in laughter.
Some of what you describe can be best described, I think, as simple irony (Herzog/Camus). Irony as comedy, potentially intentional. Some of your other examples, and this Giger example, are still irony, but projected irony... unintentional irony... observational irony. We find earnestness funny for its absence of self-awareness these days (e.g. doom goth kids shopping at a megacorp store in the mall; overwrought tilt-shit pictures of backyard farmers' chickens using a $2,400 camera; nihilists ordering berry pancakes at a brightly lit diner; etc.).
People have written a lot about irony and comedy (even with reference to Romeo and Juliet).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:20 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Michel Houellebecq, especially The Map and the Territory.
posted by betweenthebars at 10:40 AM on December 11, 2015
posted by betweenthebars at 10:40 AM on December 11, 2015
Hogg's The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner: the impossibly self-righteous protagonist for whom you just know it will not end well, the urbane devil who all but winks at the reader from the page, and even the proto-gonzo cameo of the author as a pawky but dimwitted yokel — none of it's written for laughs, but overall, it's the funniest book on Calvinist predestination you'll ever read.
posted by scruss at 10:43 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by scruss at 10:43 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I thought parts of Moby Dick were hilarious, but it's been too many years to remember the details.
posted by jon1270 at 10:57 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jon1270 at 10:57 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thomas Bernhard, say Extinction or The Loser.
posted by Fimbaz at 11:07 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Fimbaz at 11:07 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Eraserhead works pretty well as a dark comedy about parental anxiety.
posted by cakelite at 11:34 AM on December 11, 2015
posted by cakelite at 11:34 AM on December 11, 2015
Andre Breton's Anthology of Black Humor!
posted by thetortoise at 11:34 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thetortoise at 11:34 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
See also: most of Lars Von Trier's movies.
posted by cakelite at 11:37 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 11:37 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is my favorite tone in film and literature. Comedy so dark and strange it lapses into horror or madness.
I tend to see most of these artists as being intentionally funny, or at least deadly ironic, so I'm often surprised when people perceive them as simply dark or even dour.
I think Kafka's hilarious, and Robert Walser is even funnier, along similar lines.
David Lynch, especially in Eraserhead, nails this comedy of dread and anxiety. I find Lynch's persona pretty funny, too; I highly recommend the book of interviews, Lynch on Lynch.
A lot of the performance and conceptual artists from the 60s and 70s work with a high degree of irony. Chris Burden's narrative accompaniments to his famous performance/endurance pieces are so understated that they come off as droll. Bruce Nauman's work is slathered in irony.
Beckett is one of the funniest writers ever to live, in my opinion, and it's a shame the popular idea of him is of a ponderous downer. The trilogy (Molloy, Malone Dies, and the Unnameable) fills me with odd joy.
You might try Harry Mathews. You might try Stanley Crawford. You might try David Markson. You might try Gary Lutz. You might try Lydia Davis. You might try Joy Williams. You might try Helen Dewitt. These are seven incredible authors following seven very personal strains of postmodern literature. I've laughed out loud reading all of them.
I want to emphasize jon1270's point that parts of Moby-Dick are downright hilarious. People seldom mention this, but I've always found that, besides being visionary and gorgeous and sometimes tedious, Moby-Dick can be very funny. And Bartleby is basically a comedy.
I'm sure I will think of more as the day wears on! What about Rivette's Celine + Julie Go Boating? What about Bryan Fuller's take on Hannibal?
posted by scarylarry at 11:44 AM on December 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
I tend to see most of these artists as being intentionally funny, or at least deadly ironic, so I'm often surprised when people perceive them as simply dark or even dour.
I think Kafka's hilarious, and Robert Walser is even funnier, along similar lines.
David Lynch, especially in Eraserhead, nails this comedy of dread and anxiety. I find Lynch's persona pretty funny, too; I highly recommend the book of interviews, Lynch on Lynch.
A lot of the performance and conceptual artists from the 60s and 70s work with a high degree of irony. Chris Burden's narrative accompaniments to his famous performance/endurance pieces are so understated that they come off as droll. Bruce Nauman's work is slathered in irony.
Beckett is one of the funniest writers ever to live, in my opinion, and it's a shame the popular idea of him is of a ponderous downer. The trilogy (Molloy, Malone Dies, and the Unnameable) fills me with odd joy.
You might try Harry Mathews. You might try Stanley Crawford. You might try David Markson. You might try Gary Lutz. You might try Lydia Davis. You might try Joy Williams. You might try Helen Dewitt. These are seven incredible authors following seven very personal strains of postmodern literature. I've laughed out loud reading all of them.
I want to emphasize jon1270's point that parts of Moby-Dick are downright hilarious. People seldom mention this, but I've always found that, besides being visionary and gorgeous and sometimes tedious, Moby-Dick can be very funny. And Bartleby is basically a comedy.
I'm sure I will think of more as the day wears on! What about Rivette's Celine + Julie Go Boating? What about Bryan Fuller's take on Hannibal?
posted by scarylarry at 11:44 AM on December 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
Oscar Wilde, The Happy Prince and other tales.
Somehow I got given this as a child (slightly traumatised still), and it's often interpreted as... well, actual tales for children. Apparently by people who have actually read it, though that seems unlikely.
It's a parody of moralistic tales for children, in basically black comedy style.
The main moral is that people are terrible.
posted by Elysum at 11:47 AM on December 11, 2015
Somehow I got given this as a child (slightly traumatised still), and it's often interpreted as... well, actual tales for children. Apparently by people who have actually read it, though that seems unlikely.
It's a parody of moralistic tales for children, in basically black comedy style.
The main moral is that people are terrible.
posted by Elysum at 11:47 AM on December 11, 2015
Flannery O'Connor. From the title of "A Good Man is Hard to Find" to ending with "She would of been a good woman if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life," I think this is what you're looking for.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:54 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:54 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, Flannery O'Connor is a perfect choice.
posted by scarylarry at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2015
posted by scarylarry at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2015
Ooooh David Lynch and Samuel Beckett FOR SURE -
But also you MUST check out the Canadian Filmmaker Guy Maddin. "The Saddest Music in the World" and "My Winnipeg" are both dark and funny.
In "The Saddest Music in the World" a beer baroness has the wrong leg amputated after a car crash and has both legs replaced by glass beer steins. There's a character who talks to her own tapeworm. And when I went to see "My Winnipeg" at a little indie theatre, most of the older patrons expecting a PROPER movie "about" Winnipeg were exceedingly miffed (and I think a few may have left?) while my friends and I were cracking up.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 12:59 PM on December 11, 2015
But also you MUST check out the Canadian Filmmaker Guy Maddin. "The Saddest Music in the World" and "My Winnipeg" are both dark and funny.
In "The Saddest Music in the World" a beer baroness has the wrong leg amputated after a car crash and has both legs replaced by glass beer steins. There's a character who talks to her own tapeworm. And when I went to see "My Winnipeg" at a little indie theatre, most of the older patrons expecting a PROPER movie "about" Winnipeg were exceedingly miffed (and I think a few may have left?) while my friends and I were cracking up.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 12:59 PM on December 11, 2015
What about Bryan Fuller's take on Hannibal?
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of dark humor in that show.
You may also be interested in Danish dark comedies, because they are so very, very dark, but also so funny, in my opinion. A couple suggestions: Adam's Apples, The Green Butchers, Flickering Lights. These are all written and directed by Anders Thomas Jensen, and they star Mads Mikkelsen (which is how I discovered them). If you have Amazon prime, you can stream Adam's Apples and Flickering Lights for free. Personally, the one that I found the funniest, and in many ways the darkest, was Adam's Apples, but all three of them are pretty great.
Anders Thomas Jensen has written a ton of screen plays in addition to these three movies, but the dark comedies tend to be the ones that he both directs and writes, fwiw.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:26 PM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of dark humor in that show.
You may also be interested in Danish dark comedies, because they are so very, very dark, but also so funny, in my opinion. A couple suggestions: Adam's Apples, The Green Butchers, Flickering Lights. These are all written and directed by Anders Thomas Jensen, and they star Mads Mikkelsen (which is how I discovered them). If you have Amazon prime, you can stream Adam's Apples and Flickering Lights for free. Personally, the one that I found the funniest, and in many ways the darkest, was Adam's Apples, but all three of them are pretty great.
Anders Thomas Jensen has written a ton of screen plays in addition to these three movies, but the dark comedies tend to be the ones that he both directs and writes, fwiw.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:26 PM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
> You may also be interested in Danish dark comedies
The Kingdom!
posted by languagehat at 8:24 AM on December 12, 2015
The Kingdom!
posted by languagehat at 8:24 AM on December 12, 2015
Jane Austen! I love her books because they are hilarious, wry satire, but it is a very rare film adaptation that actually manages to capture the humour in them. I once listened to an abridged version of Pride and Predjudice audiobook that they actually cut out all the funny parts. it was dreadful.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:29 PM on December 12, 2015
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:29 PM on December 12, 2015
Hannibal of course, both the Bryan Fuller series and the Anthony Hopkins films. A friend of mine took exception when I recounted Whiplash, a film about abuse, as though it was a comedy.
posted by wrabbit at 8:23 PM on December 12, 2015
posted by wrabbit at 8:23 PM on December 12, 2015
« Older It's been a long December-- reason to believe | You are not my vet, but I'm worried mine may be in... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by cmoj at 8:30 AM on December 11, 2015 [1 favorite]