Post-doc job search, sh*tshow edition
November 22, 2015 6:00 PM Subscribe
The last two years of my doctoral education have involved some extraordinary circumstances that might raise eyebrows for someone looking at my CV. In a hyper-competitive job market where I was already kind of outlier, I think any kind of academic position is a long shot right now. How do I 1) explain my history to potential employers with minimal drama/"woe is me" details and 2) prepare for a likely transition to non-academic employment that still doesn't entirely shut the door on future university employment. Details inside....
I am finishing (Spring 2016) a PhD in a interdisciplinary social sciences field. My school is probably #5 or #6 in this field, if you believe in rankings. I had a decent record of publishing in peer-reviewed journals and conferences up until last year. I am, however, sort of working at the interdisciplinary "fringes" in my field, and I have to do some work to convince people my scholarship belongs here. I am also older (45), and a single parent, fwiw.
In 2014, my dissertation advisor (who had already been difficult to work with and erratic) was diagnosed with a neurological disorder. This diagnosis explained a lot of her behavior, but she worked pretty hard to hide her diagnosis from the rest of the department, and wound up leaving a lot of strained relationships among other faculty and students. She was already known as kind of difficult before the diagnosis. She finally went on medical leave this year....so I had to find another advisor willing to take me on at the dissertation-writing stage. Luckily, I found a good person, but I'm aware switching advisors at that late stage (and my prior advisor's problematic reputation) is a challenge.
Meanwhile, this spring (2015) I was diagnosed with early-stage breast cancer. It was caught early and treatment (surgery + rads) was not terribly difficult, but it kept me from both finishing my dissertation when I had planned and pushing out another couple of articles I had in the pipeline. It looks "gappy" on my CV.
So, I'm writing up my diss, and advised by my new advisor to make some changes. It's going reasonably well and the rest of my committee is onboard, if not terribly engaged. My new advisor is great, but obviously not really invested in my work, which is understandable. I still like what I'm doing myself, honestly, which is a nice surprise.
In better news, I've also started working at a consulting firm part-time as an researcher/writer. I started this gig to pay the bills while I finished - but I kind of enjoy the simplicity of it all. They want to know a thing, I tell them a thing and I get to go home at the end of the day. While I had been hoping for an academic career, this job (combined with seeing how brutal academia can be when life doesn't quite go as planned) has got me considering many different options.
My questions are: 1) How do I explain any questions about the weirdness of the past couple years without sounding like a complete disaster magnet? and 2) Assuming I wind up working in industry or a non-profit (non-academic) environment for at least awhile, how do I maintain my academic ties and chops so I can maybe try the TT job market again in a few years?
And yes, I've looked at The Professor Is In and similar advice-y places, but wondered if anyone had some personal experience.
Thanks!
I am finishing (Spring 2016) a PhD in a interdisciplinary social sciences field. My school is probably #5 or #6 in this field, if you believe in rankings. I had a decent record of publishing in peer-reviewed journals and conferences up until last year. I am, however, sort of working at the interdisciplinary "fringes" in my field, and I have to do some work to convince people my scholarship belongs here. I am also older (45), and a single parent, fwiw.
In 2014, my dissertation advisor (who had already been difficult to work with and erratic) was diagnosed with a neurological disorder. This diagnosis explained a lot of her behavior, but she worked pretty hard to hide her diagnosis from the rest of the department, and wound up leaving a lot of strained relationships among other faculty and students. She was already known as kind of difficult before the diagnosis. She finally went on medical leave this year....so I had to find another advisor willing to take me on at the dissertation-writing stage. Luckily, I found a good person, but I'm aware switching advisors at that late stage (and my prior advisor's problematic reputation) is a challenge.
Meanwhile, this spring (2015) I was diagnosed with early-stage breast cancer. It was caught early and treatment (surgery + rads) was not terribly difficult, but it kept me from both finishing my dissertation when I had planned and pushing out another couple of articles I had in the pipeline. It looks "gappy" on my CV.
So, I'm writing up my diss, and advised by my new advisor to make some changes. It's going reasonably well and the rest of my committee is onboard, if not terribly engaged. My new advisor is great, but obviously not really invested in my work, which is understandable. I still like what I'm doing myself, honestly, which is a nice surprise.
In better news, I've also started working at a consulting firm part-time as an researcher/writer. I started this gig to pay the bills while I finished - but I kind of enjoy the simplicity of it all. They want to know a thing, I tell them a thing and I get to go home at the end of the day. While I had been hoping for an academic career, this job (combined with seeing how brutal academia can be when life doesn't quite go as planned) has got me considering many different options.
My questions are: 1) How do I explain any questions about the weirdness of the past couple years without sounding like a complete disaster magnet? and 2) Assuming I wind up working in industry or a non-profit (non-academic) environment for at least awhile, how do I maintain my academic ties and chops so I can maybe try the TT job market again in a few years?
And yes, I've looked at The Professor Is In and similar advice-y places, but wondered if anyone had some personal experience.
Thanks!
Best answer: Hi, I've served on many search committees for my department (mathematics) and while the fields are different, here's some advice I can give you. Keep in mind, of course, that this is just one person's advice from just one school, but I've heard similar ideas from my colleagues.
First of all, nobody cares about "gaps" in your grad school CV. Lots of us have had children, or switched schools, or dropped out/dropped in while in grad school (I've done two of those three myself), and it's really not what a search committee is concerned about.
Second, given that we don't care about the gaps, we therefore don't need to read your explanation for those gaps. That's not to say that you hide it (and indeed your current adviser might mention it in his/her reference letter, as a way to to describe how you've managed to overcome multiple adversities and still finish your degree), but you want to focus on your strengths.
So what do we look for? First of all, we look for a fit within our parameters: can you teach X and Y, and does your research fit in our plan W and Z? Second, we check that you've got the teaching or publishing credentials we want. Third, we look at the letters to see if there are any red flags. And fourth, we look for the intangibles that might set you apart. And this is where you can really shine by emphasizing your work as a consultant. Maybe this will lead to some grants for the department, or connections for your students to industry, or whatever. It's definitely a strength, and you should definitely emphasize it.
Look, you know how brutal the job market can be in academia, and you might well decide that it's not for you. But don't sell yourself short; it sounds like you've got a good chance at a career as a professor, so why not give it a try?
Oh, one other thing: if you're going to do the academic job search, do it now. For most search committees, the PhD has a shelf life of about 9 months, and if you try to apply for jobs after three years, the overwhelming response from search committees will be, "What's wrong with this person that they couldn't get an academic job three years ago?" And that's all they need to dump your file and move on to the other 499 applications.
posted by math at 6:43 PM on November 22, 2015 [23 favorites]
First of all, nobody cares about "gaps" in your grad school CV. Lots of us have had children, or switched schools, or dropped out/dropped in while in grad school (I've done two of those three myself), and it's really not what a search committee is concerned about.
Second, given that we don't care about the gaps, we therefore don't need to read your explanation for those gaps. That's not to say that you hide it (and indeed your current adviser might mention it in his/her reference letter, as a way to to describe how you've managed to overcome multiple adversities and still finish your degree), but you want to focus on your strengths.
So what do we look for? First of all, we look for a fit within our parameters: can you teach X and Y, and does your research fit in our plan W and Z? Second, we check that you've got the teaching or publishing credentials we want. Third, we look at the letters to see if there are any red flags. And fourth, we look for the intangibles that might set you apart. And this is where you can really shine by emphasizing your work as a consultant. Maybe this will lead to some grants for the department, or connections for your students to industry, or whatever. It's definitely a strength, and you should definitely emphasize it.
Look, you know how brutal the job market can be in academia, and you might well decide that it's not for you. But don't sell yourself short; it sounds like you've got a good chance at a career as a professor, so why not give it a try?
Oh, one other thing: if you're going to do the academic job search, do it now. For most search committees, the PhD has a shelf life of about 9 months, and if you try to apply for jobs after three years, the overwhelming response from search committees will be, "What's wrong with this person that they couldn't get an academic job three years ago?" And that's all they need to dump your file and move on to the other 499 applications.
posted by math at 6:43 PM on November 22, 2015 [23 favorites]
If the gaps are real (and as a poster above notes, most gaps aren't), your advisor should address it in her letters about you.
If you want to private message me your cv I'm happy to take a peek and tell you how to reads to me.
posted by k8t at 6:45 PM on November 22, 2015
If you want to private message me your cv I'm happy to take a peek and tell you how to reads to me.
posted by k8t at 6:45 PM on November 22, 2015
It is incredibly hard to re-enter the TT market after a few year gap. That's even true when one is in a research position like working for the CDC or NIH. It is even true if one goes to a teaching school first.
Go on the market now.
posted by k8t at 6:50 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Go on the market now.
posted by k8t at 6:50 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I should have mentioned I did go "on the market" last year when I thought I was going to be graduating in 2015. I applied to around 10 TT jobs and was short-listed for 0 - an experience that is also contributing towards my doubt about an academic career.
posted by pantarei70 at 7:03 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by pantarei70 at 7:03 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I applied to around 10 TT jobs and was short-listed for 0 - an experience that is also contributing towards my doubt about an academic career.
Most people I know who have successfully attained tenure-track jobs or equivalent applied to way more than 10 places.
Regarding gaps, it's awesome to be able to have publications every year, but in my field at least that's not what would be expected from a PhD student. More important is the publications over a 5-year period, or the quality of the best publications.
posted by grouse at 7:15 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Most people I know who have successfully attained tenure-track jobs or equivalent applied to way more than 10 places.
Regarding gaps, it's awesome to be able to have publications every year, but in my field at least that's not what would be expected from a PhD student. More important is the publications over a 5-year period, or the quality of the best publications.
posted by grouse at 7:15 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
We can't say much out of those 10 positions without knowing if they were good fits, how competitive your field is, etc.
Networking is almost as important as publishing for what it is worth.
posted by k8t at 7:32 PM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Networking is almost as important as publishing for what it is worth.
posted by k8t at 7:32 PM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
I applied to 150 schools, and this was in the pre-Internet age. That's a bit excessive, but 10 is way too few.
posted by math at 8:40 PM on November 22, 2015
posted by math at 8:40 PM on November 22, 2015
what math said - you need just the absolute basics, possibly in a support letter, because all people are going to do is think "ill supervisor and breast cancer. huh. neither her fault. ok. is she any good?"
(ie the whole concept of "disaster magnet" is your invention, and dragging it into the process can only make things worse.)
posted by andrewcooke at 4:18 AM on November 23, 2015
(ie the whole concept of "disaster magnet" is your invention, and dragging it into the process can only make things worse.)
posted by andrewcooke at 4:18 AM on November 23, 2015
Best answer: I should have mentioned I did go "on the market" last year when I thought I was going to be graduating in 2015. I applied to around 10 TT jobs and was short-listed for 0 - an experience that is also contributing towards my doubt about an academic career.
I've been on a few search committees. In my department (social science btw), we never retain candidates who don't have a set defence date: the thesis has to be submitted, the committee agrees it is a defensible thesis and the date of the defence is set firmly in time. When this is the case, the supervisor will usually confirm the defence date in their letters.
I believe this is the norm in most departments, so your 0 in 10 before graduating doesn't surprise me at all. It is not necessarily representative of how you will do on the market once you have your degree in hand.
That said, yes the market is tough and it's a good idea to have back up plans.
posted by Milau at 5:46 AM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I've been on a few search committees. In my department (social science btw), we never retain candidates who don't have a set defence date: the thesis has to be submitted, the committee agrees it is a defensible thesis and the date of the defence is set firmly in time. When this is the case, the supervisor will usually confirm the defence date in their letters.
I believe this is the norm in most departments, so your 0 in 10 before graduating doesn't surprise me at all. It is not necessarily representative of how you will do on the market once you have your degree in hand.
That said, yes the market is tough and it's a good idea to have back up plans.
posted by Milau at 5:46 AM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm also in a social sciences field, although not interdisciplinary (which I think is often a harder sell). As point of reference, I also went to a top-5 PhD program, and finally (yay!) landed a TT job this year, my third time on the academic market (in the meantime, I've been doing a prestigious postdoc + a VAP at a top liberal arts school). Based on my experience, I would say:
-- I don't think the "gaps" are a big deal, especially since it sounds like it amounted to one year. This type of thing is pretty normal.
--If you do want to do the academic market, you have to be willing to do it all out. That means applying to everything you're remotely qualified for, at every location that you're remotely willing to work at. While it is completely possible to luck out doing a limited search (I have a close friend who applied one one (ONE!) job on a whim and ended up getting the position), it's really, really rare unless you are someone who is a serious superstar in your field (which I assume you will have mentioned). 10 jobs is not enough, especially if you are interdisciplinary and presumably should have more departmental options open to you.
--Definitely do not take time off for consulting. If you want to do this, either go for it now, or apply for a prestigious postdoc or a VAP somewhere competitive to build up the teaching side of your CV (if that's something you need to do). But stay in academia. I don't mean this in a mean way, because I personally don't buy into it at all, but there is ZERO respect for consultants in academia (especially the social sciences). I have another friend who has a consulting job lined up and literally does not tell most people because she has gotten so many snarky comments (despite the fact that I'm sure she'll be making 2-3x what they will!)
--And finally, the academic job market SUCKS and is not fun, and there is no shame in deciding it is not for you, especially if you have a good outside option lined up. Your adivisor and other people in your department might not be terribly supportive (see above), but remember that you have to make the right decision for YOU, not for them.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
-- I don't think the "gaps" are a big deal, especially since it sounds like it amounted to one year. This type of thing is pretty normal.
--If you do want to do the academic market, you have to be willing to do it all out. That means applying to everything you're remotely qualified for, at every location that you're remotely willing to work at. While it is completely possible to luck out doing a limited search (I have a close friend who applied one one (ONE!) job on a whim and ended up getting the position), it's really, really rare unless you are someone who is a serious superstar in your field (which I assume you will have mentioned). 10 jobs is not enough, especially if you are interdisciplinary and presumably should have more departmental options open to you.
--Definitely do not take time off for consulting. If you want to do this, either go for it now, or apply for a prestigious postdoc or a VAP somewhere competitive to build up the teaching side of your CV (if that's something you need to do). But stay in academia. I don't mean this in a mean way, because I personally don't buy into it at all, but there is ZERO respect for consultants in academia (especially the social sciences). I have another friend who has a consulting job lined up and literally does not tell most people because she has gotten so many snarky comments (despite the fact that I'm sure she'll be making 2-3x what they will!)
--And finally, the academic job market SUCKS and is not fun, and there is no shame in deciding it is not for you, especially if you have a good outside option lined up. Your adivisor and other people in your department might not be terribly supportive (see above), but remember that you have to make the right decision for YOU, not for them.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I work in industry now, but did a PhD and now interview candidates with PhDs fairly frequently. In general if you are coming out of academia you get put in a bucket which is "high risk" and the details of your academic career are largely not that important to hiring managers. Basically, your success as a grad student is generally really hard to judge by outsiders and even if you totally slayed your PhD it often doesn't have that much to do with your post-ac career so hiring managers mostly don't even try.
Having done specific work and having a portfolio of projects in the area of work you're trying to move into is your best bet for transitioning successfully. Consulting is a reasonable way to fill out your resume.
That's not to say the skills you picked up in school aren't important—they super are. If you can find the right role I imagine you'll do really well and be good at it in ways they never expected given your lack of direct experience as you learn to translate your academic skills. But you have to get in the door somehow first.
(This is a bit of logrolling but it's relevant - I wrote some more on this topic of phd transitions to industry in my field. There might be some useful info in there for you too.)
posted by heresiarch at 3:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Having done specific work and having a portfolio of projects in the area of work you're trying to move into is your best bet for transitioning successfully. Consulting is a reasonable way to fill out your resume.
That's not to say the skills you picked up in school aren't important—they super are. If you can find the right role I imagine you'll do really well and be good at it in ways they never expected given your lack of direct experience as you learn to translate your academic skills. But you have to get in the door somehow first.
(This is a bit of logrolling but it's relevant - I wrote some more on this topic of phd transitions to industry in my field. There might be some useful info in there for you too.)
posted by heresiarch at 3:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by smorgasbord at 6:24 PM on November 22, 2015