How to set boundaries with a mentally ill person
November 19, 2015 12:47 PM Subscribe
My possibly mentally ill sister wants to 'make things up to me' by taking me out. I don't want to go, but I don't want to have any drama either. Can this be done?
I will try and keep the detail brief :-) My sister and I have had an at times fraught relationship. I am sure she has some mental illness. She has a history of self-harm and some other red flag behaviours and two people close to me have, seperately, emailed me articles about 'borderline personality disorder.' They fit her to a T.
She lives with my dad, and is not in a great place right now. In recent years, the pattern with her has been that we go over there every month or so for a visit, and about ten minutes in, she pushes her food away, says she doesn't feel well, and retreats to her room. Twice, we reached out to her and took her out. Both times, she spent the bulk of the conversation relating stories about other relatives who she feels have wronged her.
Most recently, she did not come to our family event at the last minute because she was sick. She must have realized that given her pattern with us, it was a somewhat suspicious story; she has tried twice so far to make plans with me to take us out and 'make it up' to us. She has backed out at the last minute both times, and in between, there have been numerous texts and phone calls. She wants to make sure Husband does not hate her. She wants to make sure we aren't mad.
The funny thing is, I truly am not mad. I realize she has bigger things going on in her life right now. I wish her the best and hope she can take care of them. But I don't want to go out with her. I am happy to see her if we go to my dad's and she's there, but obviously the 'make plans and go out' style of arranging things is not working for her. And I am tired of engaging in this behaviour dynamic with her. I have a very low threshold for 'drama' and this is just wearing me down.
What I want to convey to her when she inevitably calls to reschedule thisn is 1) I am not mad at her, I truly am not 2) But with that said, I don't want to go out with her 3) Nor am I interested in further discussions rehashing why she didn't come, how bad she feels about that and what she might do to demonstrate her sorriness to me. How can I do this without starting a fight?
I will try and keep the detail brief :-) My sister and I have had an at times fraught relationship. I am sure she has some mental illness. She has a history of self-harm and some other red flag behaviours and two people close to me have, seperately, emailed me articles about 'borderline personality disorder.' They fit her to a T.
She lives with my dad, and is not in a great place right now. In recent years, the pattern with her has been that we go over there every month or so for a visit, and about ten minutes in, she pushes her food away, says she doesn't feel well, and retreats to her room. Twice, we reached out to her and took her out. Both times, she spent the bulk of the conversation relating stories about other relatives who she feels have wronged her.
Most recently, she did not come to our family event at the last minute because she was sick. She must have realized that given her pattern with us, it was a somewhat suspicious story; she has tried twice so far to make plans with me to take us out and 'make it up' to us. She has backed out at the last minute both times, and in between, there have been numerous texts and phone calls. She wants to make sure Husband does not hate her. She wants to make sure we aren't mad.
The funny thing is, I truly am not mad. I realize she has bigger things going on in her life right now. I wish her the best and hope she can take care of them. But I don't want to go out with her. I am happy to see her if we go to my dad's and she's there, but obviously the 'make plans and go out' style of arranging things is not working for her. And I am tired of engaging in this behaviour dynamic with her. I have a very low threshold for 'drama' and this is just wearing me down.
What I want to convey to her when she inevitably calls to reschedule thisn is 1) I am not mad at her, I truly am not 2) But with that said, I don't want to go out with her 3) Nor am I interested in further discussions rehashing why she didn't come, how bad she feels about that and what she might do to demonstrate her sorriness to me. How can I do this without starting a fight?
Can you counter-offer with "what if we order takeout and watch a movie?" or something like that? Tell her it's the holiday season and "going out" just totally stresses you out and you'd much rather chill with her.
I know you find her constant backing out really tedious, but as a person with anxiety it sounds exactly like how I act when I try to go out sometimes and I just don't have the spoons even though I desperately wish I did (and I used to engage in that exhausting apology behavior too, until I realized it made it worse). If you think she'll take offense if you offer something easier for her benefit, make it for yours instead, and then she gets to be accommodating and helpful and the bigger person.
It may not work if she's perseverating on the "going out" narrative, but it might be worth a try right now while you have the excuse of ugh Christmas shoppers.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:02 PM on November 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
I know you find her constant backing out really tedious, but as a person with anxiety it sounds exactly like how I act when I try to go out sometimes and I just don't have the spoons even though I desperately wish I did (and I used to engage in that exhausting apology behavior too, until I realized it made it worse). If you think she'll take offense if you offer something easier for her benefit, make it for yours instead, and then she gets to be accommodating and helpful and the bigger person.
It may not work if she's perseverating on the "going out" narrative, but it might be worth a try right now while you have the excuse of ugh Christmas shoppers.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:02 PM on November 19, 2015 [10 favorites]
What about an alternative activity like a walk around her neighborhood? For what it's worth, I have high anxiety and I also have an estranged sister who has bipolar disorder, so I sort of feel like I understand this from both your perspective and possibly from your sister's. Back when we still did spend time together, I found that "going out" with my sister was way too complicated, but when we opted for something simple like sitting on the front steps for half an hour or if I brought over some take-out, that worked out okay. I think the key is just lowering the standards for spending time together in a way so that both of you feel less stressed.
posted by pinetree at 1:11 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by pinetree at 1:11 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I also can sympathize with both of your situations. Maybe if you postpone this until after the holidays you can see how she's doing then (maybe you'll want to hang out, maybe not) but you can just say "Hey it isn't a good time for us right now. Why don't we plan something after the holidays wrap up? We're not mad, would love to see you but now isn't a good time" (i.e. the white lie of "It's not you it's us") and then just table it for a few months and see how you both feel later? And try to stay in touch in a low key way (texts, facebook, whatever) in between then?
To restate what people have said: You can't control her thoughts and actions and it's challenging to be in situations where you can't make someone understand what you feel to be the truth of the situation, but you just can't. Holidays are particularly difficult for the mentally ill often and finding a way to be a calming presence for your sister in some way (while not going out if that is not what you want) might be a way to mitigate this bad pattern.
posted by jessamyn at 1:21 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
To restate what people have said: You can't control her thoughts and actions and it's challenging to be in situations where you can't make someone understand what you feel to be the truth of the situation, but you just can't. Holidays are particularly difficult for the mentally ill often and finding a way to be a calming presence for your sister in some way (while not going out if that is not what you want) might be a way to mitigate this bad pattern.
posted by jessamyn at 1:21 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I realize this is more emotionally fraught than a friendship situation, but when I have flaky friends who I still want to try and maintain a connection to, I'll tend to invite them to things where it's not a huge deal if they don't show up or if the timing isn't perfect. Is it possible to do something like "Husband and I are going out for drinks this evening, feel free to join us if you can!" or "We're planning a movie marathon this weekend, feel free to come over if you have time" or "There's a free concert at the park this weekend and we're going to do a picnic and invite some friends along - feel free to come and bring some chips if you can make it!" Etc. If she shows up, great, if not, you can still have a fun time with your husband and maybe other guests depending on the event. Plus because you make the invite "if you can come", it might reduce the drama over her not making it if in fact she doesn't.
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:28 PM on November 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:28 PM on November 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
when I have flaky friends who I still want to try and maintain a connection to, I'll tend to invite them to things where it's not a huge deal if they don't show up or if the timing isn't perfect.
This is exactly what I do with friends who can't be punctual and reliable for Reasons but whose friendship I value. I will invite them to hang out at a mutually accessible coffee house, or to the local farmer's market, or over to my house for Netflix and kitty snuggles: activities that are low-stakes, inexpensive, and where I can still have fun even if I'm stood up.
I also insist on friends keeping in touch via whatever works for them - phone or text - and letting me know ASAP if they can't show; and in return, I am not reproachful, whiny or guilt-tripping when I get that "Sorry can't make it!" text. I just say, "No worries - let's reschedule!" I have one friend where we get together on maybe one of three tries due to their spoon issues and that's OK.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:02 PM on November 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
This is exactly what I do with friends who can't be punctual and reliable for Reasons but whose friendship I value. I will invite them to hang out at a mutually accessible coffee house, or to the local farmer's market, or over to my house for Netflix and kitty snuggles: activities that are low-stakes, inexpensive, and where I can still have fun even if I'm stood up.
I also insist on friends keeping in touch via whatever works for them - phone or text - and letting me know ASAP if they can't show; and in return, I am not reproachful, whiny or guilt-tripping when I get that "Sorry can't make it!" text. I just say, "No worries - let's reschedule!" I have one friend where we get together on maybe one of three tries due to their spoon issues and that's OK.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:02 PM on November 19, 2015 [9 favorites]
I think the counter-offer idea is good, particularly if it's:
* Something you were going to do anyway.
* Something you could do just fine without her.
Like ... do you go to Starbucks before work? Offer to meet her there for coffee. I mean, you're going anyway, right? So it doesn't affect your schedule at all.
And if she doesn't show? Well, you still had your coffee, just the way you like it. Mmm, coffee.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:24 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
* Something you were going to do anyway.
* Something you could do just fine without her.
Like ... do you go to Starbucks before work? Offer to meet her there for coffee. I mean, you're going anyway, right? So it doesn't affect your schedule at all.
And if she doesn't show? Well, you still had your coffee, just the way you like it. Mmm, coffee.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:24 PM on November 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
If the two friends who sent you info on BPD are correct, then there really isn't anything you can do to prevent this from causing drama. If your sister does have Borderline Personality Disorder, then there's likely to be drama if you go out with her, if you stay in with her, or if you just blow her off. So with that in mind, just do what you want, because it likely won't matter. Of course, be honest with yourself and with your sister because I'm sure integrity is important to you. I'm not suggesting that you don't treat her with respect, I'm just trying to say that you should fulfill your own wishes and set you own boundaries without regard to how she's going to react and whether or not there will be drama because there will always be drama.
posted by dchrssyr at 2:59 PM on November 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dchrssyr at 2:59 PM on November 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Can you just say, "Hey, I'm not mad at you at all so there's nothing to make up to me. I know you're busy so please don't worry about it at all. I'm truly not mad. I love you and I'll see you over the holidays." And kind of just leave it as you'll see her at Thanksgiving or Christmas? Let her know it's not necessary that she make anything up to you.
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:35 PM on November 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:35 PM on November 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Umm. Even when dealing with a person with the best possible mental health, it's very difficult for "I'm not mad at you for repeatedly cancelling, but now I don't want to make plans to go out with you" to convey anything other than "I am mad at you."
I guess I would try "I'm really looking forward to seeing you over Christmas at dad's. Things are really crazy here between now and then; can we try after the new year?"
posted by DarlingBri at 3:36 PM on November 19, 2015
I guess I would try "I'm really looking forward to seeing you over Christmas at dad's. Things are really crazy here between now and then; can we try after the new year?"
posted by DarlingBri at 3:36 PM on November 19, 2015
Best answer: What I want to convey to her when she inevitably calls to reschedule thisn is 1) I am not mad at her, I truly am not
Focus on this piece and on her feelings. Repeat as often as necessary as sincerely, kindly and lovingly as you can that you are not mad, it is small potatoes, everything is fine. Then apologize for being unable to meet her. Life is just too hairy right now. Assure her you hope to see her "next time" when (circumstances under which you are okay with seeing her).
Expect to do a lot of repeating. Do not let that fact cause your voice to become aggravated. Give her all the love and acceptance in the here and now on the phone that you can genuinely muster. Don't let her in any way provoke you. Thank her for taking the time to call. Do so very sincerely, not sarcastically, not as a veiled dig or anything like that.
If you are, in fact, genuinely not mad and can manage to convey that, you might be surprised at how well such a call can go.
posted by Michele in California at 4:32 PM on November 19, 2015
Focus on this piece and on her feelings. Repeat as often as necessary as sincerely, kindly and lovingly as you can that you are not mad, it is small potatoes, everything is fine. Then apologize for being unable to meet her. Life is just too hairy right now. Assure her you hope to see her "next time" when (circumstances under which you are okay with seeing her).
Expect to do a lot of repeating. Do not let that fact cause your voice to become aggravated. Give her all the love and acceptance in the here and now on the phone that you can genuinely muster. Don't let her in any way provoke you. Thank her for taking the time to call. Do so very sincerely, not sarcastically, not as a veiled dig or anything like that.
If you are, in fact, genuinely not mad and can manage to convey that, you might be surprised at how well such a call can go.
posted by Michele in California at 4:32 PM on November 19, 2015
Just tell her you're too tired to make going out plans but would love to hang out with her if she'd like to come over and watch some TV with you and eat some ice cream.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:19 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:19 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oboy, this is familiar. My mother suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder and it is such a challenge to keep ANY of our actions from affecting her mood. The other commenters are right when they say that whether you go out, or stay in, or cancel--your sister will most definitely see your response as being mad or hostile, and will likely react with drama. LORD KNOWS if we could unlock the secrets of BPD, so much pain could be avoided. BPD can tear a family apart.
My advice is to be gentle and make as honest an excuse as you can. Being busy before the holidays is a good one. And try to butter that up by saying you're really looking forward to catching up (even if you're not).
One thing that has worked with my family is to try to squeak in little tokens of appreciation when we can (and good GRIEF sometimes she makes it hard, and her behaviour doesn't always make us WANT to work that little bit harder). I try to send my mom texts just saying "I'm at work and it's been a busy day, but I'm thinking of you. <3" If I were to call her as often as I texted (or as often as she wants), she would bury me under her distress, tales of woe, catastrophizing, tears, accusations, paranoia etc. It's just way too draining, and with BPD the well is bottomless and emotional labour is more like emotional slavery.
It's all about balance, compassion and boundaries. It sounds like you have compassion and you understand the value of boundaries...
If your sis does have BPD, my heart goes out to you and her and everyone that loves her. It's a goddamn nightmare of a disorder for everyone involved.
Best of luck to you.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
My advice is to be gentle and make as honest an excuse as you can. Being busy before the holidays is a good one. And try to butter that up by saying you're really looking forward to catching up (even if you're not).
One thing that has worked with my family is to try to squeak in little tokens of appreciation when we can (and good GRIEF sometimes she makes it hard, and her behaviour doesn't always make us WANT to work that little bit harder). I try to send my mom texts just saying "I'm at work and it's been a busy day, but I'm thinking of you. <3" If I were to call her as often as I texted (or as often as she wants), she would bury me under her distress, tales of woe, catastrophizing, tears, accusations, paranoia etc. It's just way too draining, and with BPD the well is bottomless and emotional labour is more like emotional slavery.
It's all about balance, compassion and boundaries. It sounds like you have compassion and you understand the value of boundaries...
If your sis does have BPD, my heart goes out to you and her and everyone that loves her. It's a goddamn nightmare of a disorder for everyone involved.
Best of luck to you.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Agree. You can't control how other people feel or react, and to attempt to do it will just make you miserable.
I'd simply say, "I wish we could but with the holidays our schedules are a nightmare. We'll see you at family events and perhaps we can try for something when things calm down."
No blame, no lies.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:16 PM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd simply say, "I wish we could but with the holidays our schedules are a nightmare. We'll see you at family events and perhaps we can try for something when things calm down."
No blame, no lies.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:16 PM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mattbcoset at 1:01 PM on November 19, 2015 [25 favorites]