Help, My Dad Married a Magician!

December 11, 2005 6:28 PM

How can my step-mom tell if a standard issue Bicylce playing card is a face card or not by looking at only the back of the card?

Here is some history. Roughly 10 years ago my grandpa showed us a card trick. The trick is simple and it goes something like this; I bring a deck of standard issue bicycle playing cards. It doesn't seem to matter if they are red or blue. Sitting across from my grandpa, I shuffle the cards and then place the deck face down on the table in front of me. I then proceed to turn up a card so it is perpendicular to the table with it's back facing my grandpa. He studies the card's back for roughly 3 to 7 seconds and then tells me if it is a face card or not. He can basically go through the entire deck and get everyone correct.

At the time when he showed us this trick, my family tried to figure it out. Within a few hours, my step-mom figured it out and promised my grandpa she would never tell a soul.

Fast forward to this past weekend. I had been thinking about this trick and asked my step-mom to show my fiancee. This time my dad appeared to have figured out the trick after an hour or so of my step-mom "performing".

Not sure if this helps or not but she claims that aces are "difficult" and "can go either way".

I am assuming that the whole trick is based on the fact the face cards use more ink on the face than non-face cards. Perhaps this increased volume of ink on the face can somehow be seen on the back of the card?

Help me. It's driving me mad!

posted by TheAnswer to sports, hobbies, & recreation (37 comments total)

Hm, I don't have a deck and can't test it, but perhaps they situate themselves and you carefully so there's a light shining behind you, and they can kind of "see thru" the card enough to determine if its a face card?
posted by tristeza at 6:34 PM on December 11, 2005

Maybe the card reflects a spray of light onto the table behind it (away from your stepmom)? A face card might reflect less light, or light of a different quality, than numbered cards.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:41 PM on December 11, 2005

There may have been an accomplice involved, brought in on it beforehand and making signals for the 'performer'. If so, my first guess would be that it was your step-mom in the first case and you dad in the second. Were they around for every trick, and in a position to see the front of the card?
posted by Lirp at 6:41 PM on December 11, 2005

Is there anyone looking over your shoulder?
posted by normy at 6:42 PM on December 11, 2005

Do you wear glasses?
posted by odinsdream at 6:42 PM on December 11, 2005

Do you wear glasses - maybe the cards reflect in them? Or maybe they are picking up on your non-verbal signals, which is why they aren't always 100% accurate?
posted by peep at 6:43 PM on December 11, 2005

Oh, beat by one minute!
posted by peep at 6:43 PM on December 11, 2005

Can it be done using a fresh (like, right out of the cellophane) pack of cards?

If not, then the deck was probably marked.

I've also noticed that the left and right edges of the cards are of different width - has the deck been tampered (all the facecards are flipped so that the left is wide and vice versa)?
posted by PurplePorpoise at 7:10 PM on December 11, 2005

They make decks with patterns in the back of them, red and blue, that look just like Bicycle decks. Maybe they substitute their decks for the ones you brought with sleight-of-hand?
posted by deadfather at 7:13 PM on December 11, 2005

Does it only work with Bicycle cards?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:15 PM on December 11, 2005

The "accomplice/someone looking over your shoulder" ideas have been ruled out. In both instances, the trick was performed without anyone else in the room. I do not wear glasses, and I am very certain there are no reflecting objects behind me which could possibly aid in this trick. I am thinking this has to be the reflection on the table behind the card. Although, my fiancee and I both studied her eyes quite carefully and agree she is looking at the card and not 7 inches below the card at the tables surface. She is only about 2 feet away from the card itself, so "calculating" the angle of her eyes seems reasonable.

On preview, I bring the cards. There is nothing tricky about them. And no switching. I bring the cards, shuffle and show. The "performer" never touches the cards.

I seem to remember my grandpa using different cards other than bycicle. They may have been bees. But that was quite some time ago.
posted by TheAnswer at 7:17 PM on December 11, 2005

The "magic" has to be paying attention to your face and deciding on the face cards just by paying attention to how you're looking at the cards.
posted by 6550 at 7:33 PM on December 11, 2005

If the decks have been extensively used for pinochle, euchre, etc. (games which only use the 9, 10, and the face cards) could there be a difference in the surface gloss of those cards? That would considerably improve the chances of guessing a face card.
posted by pullayup at 7:38 PM on December 11, 2005

Straaange - I know that there's a "magician's credo" about not revealing tricks but I'm really hoping that someone who knows the trick deigns to share with us.

... maybe you can try using a blank faced bicycle deck to catch what they're doing?
posted by PurplePorpoise at 7:39 PM on December 11, 2005

Bicycle cards are relatively easy to mark, because of the patterns on the back. Out of the box they are not marked, but that can be changed after the fact.
posted by alms at 7:41 PM on December 11, 2005

How can my step-mom tell if a standard issue Bicylce playing card is a face card or not by looking at only the back of the card?

You can't.

Without seeing it I dont know how this version is done but I'm certain that in a new ordinary deck the backs are all the same. That said, it's a trick we dont know enough about to answer your question. Does the person examining the back of the card ever touch the cards? In one version, the person performing the trick holds the questioned card and claims to be "feeling for thicker ink" while always holding the card with the face away from him. While "examining" the card, what he is really doing is bending the card slightly so that it flexes away from him, and he catches a glimpse of the corner while it's slightly flexed.

If you want to see some excellent videos of people doing all sorts of card tricks, browse the videos at SleightGeek. They also have a forum where you could ask such a question if you don't get a satisfactory answer here. Then again, those folk sometimes aren't keen on blurting out secrets. alt.magic.secrets is more devoted to the "how to's".
posted by whatisish at 7:50 PM on December 11, 2005

My first thought is that they're looking at you and they can tell by your expression. Have you tried this with someone else holding up the cards?
posted by mmoncur at 8:15 PM on December 11, 2005

My grandpa could do this too. I only remember him performing this trick once, and it was for my cousin and I when we were about 10. We examined the cards for several minutes afterwards, there weren't any kind of markings or differences. Grandma swore she didn't know how he did it either.

I'd decided it's some kind of grandpa-only magic, but I'd love to hear a practical solution, too.
posted by katieinshoes at 8:19 PM on December 11, 2005

This Christmas ply them with eggnog until they tell you how it's done. Or pretend you get it and then see if you can get them to tell you what they're looking at.
posted by fshgrl at 8:20 PM on December 11, 2005

Have you ever used a brand new deck (literally unwrapped immediately before the shuffle and guess)? The backs of spotted cards (A-10) wear unevenly (the reverse side of the spots wear first) because the extra thickness of the printing ink. They may be looking for this wear pattern.
posted by Mitheral at 8:27 PM on December 11, 2005

How glossy is the tables surface?
posted by IronLizard at 8:29 PM on December 11, 2005

She can read you mind. Really.
posted by CaptMcalister at 9:09 PM on December 11, 2005

I don't know how she does it, but you can try this. Shuffle the cards and place them face down on the table and have her turn over the face cards. If she declines, or is not able to, then you know that its quite likely that YOU are somehow involved in transferring the knowledge.
However, if she's able to still pick the cards, then I say that's a damn good trick.
Can she do it with cards other than Bicycle?
posted by forforf at 9:24 PM on December 11, 2005

Look, if anyone could reliably tell face from number cards from the back they'd be playing poker for big money, not taunting their grand- and step-children. So that's not happening. Here's my guess, assuming that you're looking at the face of each card and that they can see where your eyes are looking:

When it's a number card, your eyes flick to the corner, to read the number. When it's a face card, your eyes stay in the middle, where the face is. Aces, right, some people look, some don't.
posted by nicwolff at 10:20 PM on December 11, 2005

Try doing the trick without looking at the cards yourself and see if her accuracy goes down. This is driving me a little nuts now- I'm going to ask my Mom, she knows millions of card tricks and can count them and generally is an amazing cheat. I wish we could get her involved in tournament poker because we'd be rich.
posted by fshgrl at 10:49 PM on December 11, 2005

I've been doing card magic for about as long as I can remember, and I can tell you that as soon as you figure it out (and you will if you're persistent), it's going to be anti-climactic because it's never as complicated as anyone ever thinks.

Until then, don't rule out the possibility that it really is magic.
posted by Jeff Howard at 11:08 PM on December 11, 2005

Does the color reflect on the cards that are still lying on the table?
posted by fshgrl at 12:18 AM on December 12, 2005

I think nicwolff has it. Next time you can get someone to play this game, try throwing some interference in.
posted by baphomet at 12:18 AM on December 12, 2005

It's hard to figure out what a trick is based on the recollection of someone who just sees it perform; as anyone who did magic should know, there's a lot that the magician does that just does not register with the audience at all (the top change would be the most obvious example, I think).

In this case, a useful thing to do would be to not look at the cards at all. If the performer "really" can read the card's backs, then how about they do the trick while the cards are still on the deck? They read the back, you deal the card face-up and see if they're right. That would eliminate the possibility of them reading your eyes, the reflection of the card off somewhere, or a glimpse method. If they still can do it with the cards just coming off the deck, then it's most likely the deck is marked. Either gambler's marks or perhaps a subtle one sided deck method (one border thinner than the other, face cards reversed).

I found that when someone explains a trick to me, it almost always sounds impossible by any method I know. But if I see it, it's very obvious what the spectator missed and why they couldn't figure it out. Magic is pretty interesting that way.
posted by splice at 3:36 AM on December 12, 2005

Hmmm, since you say an accomplice has been ruled out, I don't know. My dad taught me this trick when I was little and we would always astound relatives when they'd come to visit. We'd all sit around the table and I'd close my eyes or wear a blindfold and hold up each card and rub it, feeling for the difference. Of course there isn't any. What would happen is my dad would have his foot on mine under the table and when a face card appeared he'd put a little pressure on it letting me know. Good luck - I hope you figure it out.
posted by skirch at 4:14 AM on December 12, 2005

Straaange - I know that there's a "magician's credo" about not revealing tricks but I'm really hoping that someone who knows the trick deigns to share with us.

More likely there aren't many professional/practiced magicians on MeFi. If that credo held much weight you wouldn't have nearly as many magicians learning their tricks by checking books out of the public library and practicing in the mirror as kids :)
posted by dagnyscott at 5:56 AM on December 12, 2005

I vaguely remember reading about this tick when I was younger. I think it had something to do with the width of the white band around the edge of the back of the card. Something like comparing the top and bottom edges showed a slight difference of width on face cards, while non-face cards had the same width on both top and bottom.

I can't find anything on Google about it, and it sounds weird thinking about it. There's no way Bicycle would do this, but it would explain why someone would have to "study" the back of the card. I'm tempted to go buy a deck to check this out. Of course, it's probably not this and has a much simpler explanation.
posted by PantsOfSCIENCE at 6:03 AM on December 12, 2005

nicwolff is probably right. If you're sure the trick isn't reflection-based, then you have a tell. In fact, it's probably easier to do this trick with a tell than with some weird chain of reflections.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:49 AM on December 12, 2005

Thanks for all of the replies so far. I am leaning towards nicwolff's answer as many of you are. However, there were a few times that I picked up the card and held it against my chest without looking at the card. In those situations, she seemed to have guessed the cards without any difficulties. However, she is quite sly and may have just gotten lucky on those 2 or 3 cards that I tried this technique with. I was really hoping for that one definative answer. I am going to try nicwolff's solution on some unsuspecting co-workers this week.

Please keep those suggestions coming.

Thanks.
posted by TheAnswer at 9:50 AM on December 12, 2005

For some weird reason, I want to say that they take a few seconds to study the back of the card is because there's a minute difference in the pattern on the back of face cards as opposed to the regular number cards. I think I had a kid's magic book/magician's set that had this... or I could be making all of this up. Maybe you could examine the back of the cards really closely?
posted by lychee at 3:05 PM on December 12, 2005

Suggestion: next time, have him/her guess before you look at the card. Any tell(s) would be eliminated.
posted by deborah at 4:05 PM on December 12, 2005

I'm not a pro or anything, but I've been dabbling for a long while. The high point of my visit at Dysneyland when I was a kid (8? 9?) was visiting a magic shop there and getting a bunch of tricks (all crap, of course). A guy I talked and practiced magic with in college knew Alain Choquette and other pros. I figure I'm no expert, but I've seen and read a lot.

I can tell you with near-certainty that there is no difference between face cards and spot cards in a normal bicycle deck. That said, there are many ways this trick could be done.

The most important thing in magic is the presentation; patter and misdirection make up much of the effect. I hope I'm not giving too much away here, but a leading mentalist, Kenton Knepper, presented a concept called Definition = Creation. There are situations you can create where the spectator will swear till they turn blue that something happened, yet if they had a tape and reviewed the trick they would see that their belief is wrong. That makes for powerful magic, and it's probably what we're seeing here; the trick itself is very simple, but the way it is presented and the subtelties involved convince the spectator that everything is on the level (the deck can be any deck, pulled out anytime, done under any circumstance, while the reality is very different).

It's hard to figure out what the trick is without actually seeing it with an experienced eye. Many good suggestions have been given in the thread, but it's hard to be sure.
posted by splice at 5:55 PM on December 12, 2005