How do I paint over rubbery paint that stretches and peels off walls?

November 9, 2015 10:42 AM

Just bought a 1926 home where the living room walls and ceiling has been recently painted with a sad dark gray. The walls are plaster, and previous owner had used an electric sprayer. I have a feeling he put on the paint too thick because where some fixtures have been removed, paint is peeling off in sheets- but stretches off like rubber! Peels cleanly off of the plaster.

I would like to paint the walls white- but am unsure of the best way to do so. Do i need to peel off as much of the old paint as possible? (my nightmare) Sand the edges of the peels and paint over?

Why is this happening in the first place, and how can I paint properly to avoid this?

Any advice is appreciated!

PS bonus question!!- we bought a ton of Kilz Premium white paint, mainly for painting the unfinished basement and unfinished/in progress attic. Can this be used as a white interior paint for a kitchen or living room- or is it really more of just a primer?

posted by bleedfoot to Home & Garden (22 answers total)

Sounds like normal latex paint, just really badly applied.

You'll need to strip the paint somehow as the peeling won't be stopped with more paint. In cases like this sometimes people go as far as removing the plaster & re-drywalling the whole room.

Are these exterior walls? Sometimes this is the result of humidity/moisture in the walls, which can definitely happen with plaster walls. It's probably just poor surface preparation or something like latex paint applied over older oil-based paint which requires a good priming job with the right primer to make sure it doesn't peel off.

So... my suggestion for how to do this right is to redo the walls ar at least add a new layer of drywall over the existing walls. Yes, that's a huge PITA. Not all problems can be undone though, especially really bad paint jobs.
posted by GuyZero at 10:50 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

He may have painted acrylic paint over oil-based paint. That peels. I'm not sure how to fix it, so I'll leave that to others, but maybe it gives you an avenue for Googling...
posted by cecic at 10:51 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, incompatible surfaces. Latex over oil is fine, but you need to put the right primer on clean walls first.

A heat gun or even a hair dryer will help the stripping process. You'll also want a straight scraper of the wall and a diamond one for the trim.

I'd avoid chemical strippers unless absolutely necessary. There are two types that matter: the ones based on citrus, which typically take two or three applications and a similar number of days. There are also quicker methylene chloride (solvent) based ones, but those should not be used indoors. Heat is safer and quicker, and I'd stick to that if possible.

Finally, don't make the same mistake. Wash the finished walls with TSP then prime before repainting.

At the end of the day, though, Guy Zero is right. Drywall and mud are cheap. Tearing back to studs and re drywalling will give you a better final surface than stripping.
posted by bonehead at 11:03 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

I would recommend caution in looking at the re-drywall option: it's rather likely you've got plaster and lathe on the walls, which is quite a mess to remove.

Sounds like you've got the same issue I had at the old place - latex over oil-based paint.

Kilz is probably your best option. After a nice wash-down, as noted above.
posted by notsnot at 11:10 AM on November 9, 2015

Response by poster: Side note- Dry wall is def not an option in the foreseeable future, and the walls are in beautiful shape minus the hideous paint.

Question- If it was latex over Oil-based, would the peels of paint be just the latex coming off, and exposing the oil-based? Or would both layers peel off together? Currently it peels off cleanly and shows the plaster wall. I will inspect the paint tonight and see if it looks like there is any hint of a primer or other layer below.
posted by bleedfoot at 11:15 AM on November 9, 2015

I would get a product like Peel-Stop and prime the walls with that (after you have removed any obviously loose paint). Then apply your new paint over the Peel-Stop primer. I have done this on exterior paint that was peeling and it worked out fine.
posted by Ostara at 11:20 AM on November 9, 2015

Best answer: So, when you say it peeled off where the fixtures were, do you mean there was paint adhering to switchplates, etc, and it pulled off strips when you took the fixture off? If these are the only problem areas, you may not need to strip the whole thing in the near term, but it may be a good idea in the long term. Check on whether the paint is bubbling anywhere, and whether it is generally not adhering... rub vigorously at a spot to see if it detatches.

We just had thus problem at our place, like yesterday. We had already started the repainting, so I used a razor blade to clean up the edges of the stripped areas and used a touch of joint compound to smooth them for paint. I also used the blade to cut around the remaining fixtures for removal and then masking lines after repainting. It is obviously better to strip the walls, but we didn't find it immediately necessary. Will consider it when we fix up other rooms, or if we repaint the one we just did.
posted by zennie at 11:21 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yeah, don't get rid of lath/plaster - the finish is gorgeous, and likely complements the age of your home. Also, plaster is virtually mold-proof (unlike drywall, which provides ample food for the mold spores), and when wetted (not soaked, but damp) will dry just as hard as before; unlikely that moisture is causing the paint problem. Plaster has been used for centuries before insulation, and as noted, is fairly moisture-proof (especially in the short term).
posted by dbmcd at 11:23 AM on November 9, 2015

f it was latex over Oil-based, would the peels of paint be just the latex coming off, and exposing the oil-based? Or would both layers peel off together? Currently it peels off cleanly and shows the plaster wall. I will inspect the paint tonight and see if it looks like there is any hint of a primer or other layer below.

The odds of there being nothing on top of the plaster are basically zero - my previous plaster-walled house had several layers of oil-based paint, wallpaper and latex paint on the walls. I'm assuming that plaster walls are old as no one generally builds plaster walls any more. So you're probably looking at paper, painted paper or oil-based paint. Whatever they used as the first wall finish after the wall was built is likely to be there forever.

It's likely just the latex paint because if the oil based paint was sticking to it, it wouldn't be peeling off.

If you want to strip it that's definitely possible, just make sure to take all the latex paint off, every last bit of it. Ideally sand the walls lightly, wash with TSP, rinse with clean water and then get a really good primer on top of whatever is there. Also test for lead in the underlying paint before you sand - you should be able to get lead test kits at most paint stores. Don't sand walls with lead paint.
posted by GuyZero at 11:29 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]

My guess is that the paint is exterior paint (it is stretchy since the outside of a house will expand and contract with the weather) and was applied inside instead.
posted by kindall at 11:43 AM on November 9, 2015

Any newish latex will behave that way.

If you haven't already, do check for lead in the undercoat. Lead is a risk in any home built before WW2. Wall and trim should both be checked. Lead test kits are available at most home reno and paint stores.

If you've got lead, stripping and re-encapsulation are complex. There are many resources for dealing with lead paint, but the EPA has a good starting point here. Until you've confirmed you're clear, you don't want to produce flakes of paint, no dry scraping or sanding. Kids, pets and pregnant folks should also be kept away from the exposed paint until you know what you're dealing with.
posted by bonehead at 11:50 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

You need to get rid of the paint. Then look at what's underneath. Get rid of layers of wall-paper and paint. Hopefully, you can restore the plaster with just repairing damages. Otherwise, I'd recommend re-plastering.
On a clean, mended plaster surface, you can paint with whatever you like. Use an under-paint to close the pores. I like paint on plaster, but many prefer to add a layer of wall-paper or structural fiber to even out the surfaces.
posted by mumimor at 12:03 PM on November 9, 2015

Response by poster: The previous owner HAD put a new skim coat on everything (which looks nice) and then painted- so it may really be the plaster its ripping down too. In the kitchen where he sprayed over the cabinets, its thick and dripping and feels rubbery as well. Is it possible everything was just applied poorly?

I have the old can of paint he used at home, will check tonight what kind it is.

@Zennie - Yes exactly- he had some items screwed into the wall, and where those things were removed it looked like the paint stuck to it and peeled off. the rest of the wall seems fine in every way.

my main goals are just to get the room back to white, and not to damage the plaster (since I have never repaired it before and it seems scary)
posted by bleedfoot at 12:16 PM on November 9, 2015

ditto on the check for lead paint thing....i had a 1918 craftsman that had layers of paint over the plaster, and then wallpaper over that, even stripped the window frames down to bare wood and the whole thing was a nightmare. and i'm terrible at stuff like that. All the layers under the wall paper tested positive for lead.
posted by th3ph17 at 12:18 PM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

my $0.02

strip ALL the old paint using heat and/or a citrus-based remover and prep the new surface using TSP or similar. as others have noted there is a very high probability of lead based paint under there somewhere, so take precautions when stripping and painting.

after that go to a real, honest to goodness paint store (not home depot or lowes's) and talk to them or their mfg's product rep about your situation and get the appropriate primer and finish cote. good paint intended for a given application looks and works SO MUCH BETTER than random stuff from big box places.
posted by Dr. Twist at 1:10 PM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Seconding Dr. Twist, but BEFORE attempting to strip all that paint, I would take a scrap of your rubbery gray paint to the real paint store (Sherwin Williams, Benjamin Moore, etc) and ask them what they would do. Take their advice on how to prepare the walls and then buy your quality white paint from them.
posted by sarajane at 2:34 PM on November 9, 2015

Best answer: Any latex paint will do this to a degree. In future, when you have to remove an item from the wall, take a utility knife and cut the paint at the perimeter of the item - THEN take the item off the wall.
posted by rudd135 at 3:22 PM on November 9, 2015

I did exactly what zennie suggests when my walls started weirdly peeling like that: total, easy success.
posted by slateyness at 3:38 PM on November 9, 2015

Best answer: I think it's a "deal with it now or later" situation. The easiest would be to patch. If everything is going to be white and you don't have to mask (and risk the tape pulling off more paint), that's a viable short term route.

However, sounds like you'll at least want to strip the kitchen. Kitchens and latex paint are not a good combination. You'll find out the first time you need to really degrime the walls and cabinets.
posted by zennie at 7:20 AM on November 10, 2015

Response by poster: Thanks for everyones input!

It looks like the only places in the whole room that have peeling are from where something was affixed to the wall- so the patches are quite small, though numerous. I have a feeling that quickly after painting, he put his decor back on the wall and the plastic texture of the paint may have clung on to the items when he went to remove them.

At this point we just need a quick fix to get the home more comfortable so I think I will take some of your advice and do the follow:

1- TSP the walls and clean up the peel edges, 2- patch, 3- prime with Kilz, 4- paint with some nicer white.

Thank you everyone for your help- I will post back after we finish this project (Fingers crossed for this weekend :)
posted by bleedfoot at 7:48 AM on November 10, 2015

In answer to, "was it applied poorly" it sounds like it was, actually, but the rubbery nature of the long-dried product speaks more to the quality of the paint than the application. Latex paint is typically not recommended for furniture like cabinetry, but there are higher quality (harder drying, higher resin) latex paints that might not do as poorly.
posted by zennie at 7:53 AM on November 10, 2015

Be careful picking your primer. Not all primers are created equal. In problem spots you do want to give yourself as good a chance as possible (and really, really seal any old paint).

You want to get a high-adhesion primer specifically for latex on hard-to-paint surfaces, including oils. This would best be done with a oil-based primer (e.g. Zinsser Odorless), which you may need to find at a specialty paint store. All of these will smell more (despite the name) and be rather messier to clean-up than a water-based prime, but you'll get a much surer result.

The Kilz varieties available at a big box hardware store, typically the water-based kind, are perhaps not the best choice for a tougher problem like this. If that's all that's available, I'd look at a higher-quality Behr primer (at HD) over Kilz.
posted by bonehead at 8:41 AM on November 10, 2015