Continuing Estrangement
November 8, 2015 9:24 PM Subscribe
I am currently estranged from my mother. I don't know if I should give her another chance.
There is a lot of history. Most of it doesn't matter, it is in the past. I have a hard time knowing how much information is too much. Here is a little context, described as objectively as possible.
When I moved into my first place, my mom came over to see it. For various reasons, I was living double hamper (clean clothes hamper and dirty clothes hamper). I hadn't had a chance to put together any drawers or anything yet (I had only been there ~2 weeks and I was working and going to school). My mom attacked me with a tray of manicotti that she had brought over. I locked myself in my room while she shouted and caused damage to my apartment. When neighbors came to look, she left. I didn't speak to her for some time after that.
My aunt reconciled us a few months later. Though about 2 or 3 years later she attacked me again (this time at her house) and I cut off contact again. It wasn't nearly as bad, but it was more of a last straw moment than anything else. When my aunt tried to reconcile us this time, I accidentally came out to her. She told my mom who told the rest of my family and then called my employer to try to get me fired.
A few years later, I reached out again. It was going well, we were talking on the phone well for a few weeks. Then we met in person on neutral territory. I told her that I had a friend who was pregnant (it seemed like a good idea at the time as it was pretty impersonal). She bought a set of DVDs of something I enjoyed watching as a child and asked for my address so she could send it to me to pass on to the friend. (Note: The friend was just pregnant. The child would not be born for months, and then could not watch the DVDs for a few more years). When I declined to give my address, she started asking why. After being pressed for a long time, I told her why. (see above, the last time she knew my address). She said I should be over it by now. I asked her to respect my boundries. She said that "If you knew how much I love you, you wouldn't need boundaries". There were a number of other insults as well (the usual that I would never be loved, that I was heartless, etc). We became estranged again. This was a little over two years ago now.
She still leaves me messages every once in a while and sends me cards (through my dad who will not stop delivering them to me. Separate issue). Each of these cause me a lot of anxiety. There is an occasional dig, calling me compassionless or similar. But the messages are largely just sad. She is in pain.
Should I try again? Some of my friends and family think I should give her another chance. They don't really understand what she is like though. I do feel bad that she is in pain, and I am honestly over the things in our past. But I do want to protect myself going forward as well. Last time I reached out to her, it was almost nice (until it wasn't).
What should I do?
There is a lot of history. Most of it doesn't matter, it is in the past. I have a hard time knowing how much information is too much. Here is a little context, described as objectively as possible.
When I moved into my first place, my mom came over to see it. For various reasons, I was living double hamper (clean clothes hamper and dirty clothes hamper). I hadn't had a chance to put together any drawers or anything yet (I had only been there ~2 weeks and I was working and going to school). My mom attacked me with a tray of manicotti that she had brought over. I locked myself in my room while she shouted and caused damage to my apartment. When neighbors came to look, she left. I didn't speak to her for some time after that.
My aunt reconciled us a few months later. Though about 2 or 3 years later she attacked me again (this time at her house) and I cut off contact again. It wasn't nearly as bad, but it was more of a last straw moment than anything else. When my aunt tried to reconcile us this time, I accidentally came out to her. She told my mom who told the rest of my family and then called my employer to try to get me fired.
A few years later, I reached out again. It was going well, we were talking on the phone well for a few weeks. Then we met in person on neutral territory. I told her that I had a friend who was pregnant (it seemed like a good idea at the time as it was pretty impersonal). She bought a set of DVDs of something I enjoyed watching as a child and asked for my address so she could send it to me to pass on to the friend. (Note: The friend was just pregnant. The child would not be born for months, and then could not watch the DVDs for a few more years). When I declined to give my address, she started asking why. After being pressed for a long time, I told her why. (see above, the last time she knew my address). She said I should be over it by now. I asked her to respect my boundries. She said that "If you knew how much I love you, you wouldn't need boundaries". There were a number of other insults as well (the usual that I would never be loved, that I was heartless, etc). We became estranged again. This was a little over two years ago now.
She still leaves me messages every once in a while and sends me cards (through my dad who will not stop delivering them to me. Separate issue). Each of these cause me a lot of anxiety. There is an occasional dig, calling me compassionless or similar. But the messages are largely just sad. She is in pain.
Should I try again? Some of my friends and family think I should give her another chance. They don't really understand what she is like though. I do feel bad that she is in pain, and I am honestly over the things in our past. But I do want to protect myself going forward as well. Last time I reached out to her, it was almost nice (until it wasn't).
What should I do?
Would you even consider reaching out again if this was any person other than your mother? I'm guessing that you would not. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it must be to want a relationship with your mother only to see time after time that she is simply not capable of giving you one worth having. You do not deserve to be treated the way she has treated you. You deserve kindness and love. Protect yourself. Do not let that poison into your life again.
posted by teamnap at 9:40 PM on November 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by teamnap at 9:40 PM on November 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
At first I was gunna be like, "Maybe talk about this with a therapist to see if it's a good idea because it can be deeply personal."
But then I actually read what she has done to you.
Now I'm like, "Hell no. Don't speak to this person. Ever. Get a therapist to deal with this because It sounds like hell! I'm so sorry! Try to set boundaries with surrounding family to protect yourself. Please!"
For reference, I don't speak to my biological mother OR her sisters (my aunts.) I did have to cut out my aunts due to boundary issues, too. My life is much better without the drama.
Through all of this, I have learned this: YOU can choose who is in your life. It does NOT matter if they are family. That does not entitle you to have them in your life.
posted by Crystalinne at 9:45 PM on November 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
But then I actually read what she has done to you.
Now I'm like, "Hell no. Don't speak to this person. Ever. Get a therapist to deal with this because It sounds like hell! I'm so sorry! Try to set boundaries with surrounding family to protect yourself. Please!"
For reference, I don't speak to my biological mother OR her sisters (my aunts.) I did have to cut out my aunts due to boundary issues, too. My life is much better without the drama.
Through all of this, I have learned this: YOU can choose who is in your life. It does NOT matter if they are family. That does not entitle you to have them in your life.
posted by Crystalinne at 9:45 PM on November 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
You do not deserve this. Her emotional excesses are reason enough to keep contact to nil. Let Hallmark get your back on this. She sounds institution bound. I have relatives I never saw again after my 15th year. My family never went back east after that and I certainly wasn't going to do it under my own steam.
No one gets to abuse you, especially not your mom. Find a mom substitute if you still want that sort of relationship. Do not let any friendship or familial relationship flow through your mom. Take care of the connections you want to keep. Let anyone who wants to interfere with your choice in the matter of your personal relationship with or without your mom, know that you are handling it as you choose. The aunt that went after your ability to survive, never communicate with her again. Keep a shredder around, use it on letters from that bat cave. I am sorry about what you are enduring. Find life's sweetness.
posted by Oyéah at 9:54 PM on November 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
No one gets to abuse you, especially not your mom. Find a mom substitute if you still want that sort of relationship. Do not let any friendship or familial relationship flow through your mom. Take care of the connections you want to keep. Let anyone who wants to interfere with your choice in the matter of your personal relationship with or without your mom, know that you are handling it as you choose. The aunt that went after your ability to survive, never communicate with her again. Keep a shredder around, use it on letters from that bat cave. I am sorry about what you are enduring. Find life's sweetness.
posted by Oyéah at 9:54 PM on November 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
"Last time I reached out to her, it was almost nice (until it wasn't). "
It's going to happen again, just as it did before. It is sad that your mother is in pain, and it speaks well of your character that this troubles you, but all the reasons you are not in contact are still there and have not changed. Don't give it another thought. While you say your dad delivering her messages is a separate issue, that's actually what I would be giving thought to.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:00 PM on November 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
It's going to happen again, just as it did before. It is sad that your mother is in pain, and it speaks well of your character that this troubles you, but all the reasons you are not in contact are still there and have not changed. Don't give it another thought. While you say your dad delivering her messages is a separate issue, that's actually what I would be giving thought to.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:00 PM on November 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
Your mother is wrong about so many, many things. She may love you (as best she knows how) but she is doing a terrible job as a mother and is probably incapable of doing any better.
If you try again, you know what is going to happen: it was almost nice (until it wasn't). If you want to do that and if you are in a good place where you can maintain strong boundaries and take care of yourself, it is OK to do that. But if you aren't able to be with her and still protect yourself or if you just don't want to, that's OK too.
I just read a great discussion about dealing with these mothers over at Captain Awkward. Read it, not just for her advice but also to get a sense of all the different strategies people are using to deal with their own mothers. You are not alone and no matter what you decide to do, many other people have made the same decision, for good reasons.
posted by metahawk at 10:03 PM on November 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you try again, you know what is going to happen: it was almost nice (until it wasn't). If you want to do that and if you are in a good place where you can maintain strong boundaries and take care of yourself, it is OK to do that. But if you aren't able to be with her and still protect yourself or if you just don't want to, that's OK too.
I just read a great discussion about dealing with these mothers over at Captain Awkward. Read it, not just for her advice but also to get a sense of all the different strategies people are using to deal with their own mothers. You are not alone and no matter what you decide to do, many other people have made the same decision, for good reasons.
posted by metahawk at 10:03 PM on November 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do you feel your mother is going to be more beneficial to your life overall than destructive? I get the sense that the answer is "no" and she will just make things worse. If that's the case, then enforce your boundaries and don't give in.
I agree with teamnap. If you wouldn't put up with the behaviour from someone else, then don't put up with it from your mother. Yes, she might have watched out for you when you were a kid, but what has she done for you lately other than trying to get you fired?
Parents are just people and, imo, you don't owe them a thing if they don't earn your respect in some way. Just birthing you and attempting to screw up your life (if that's her specialty) isn't enough.
Do what people in the gay community have been doing for ages--make your own family of choice from close friends and other people who are supportive and worth bothering with. Dump your own family to the extent that they are toxic--and don't spend too much time looking back. It sounds harsh, but it's probably best for you.
It would be easier if your mom didn't desire to interfere in your life in such a toxic way, though (not sure I feel this is love based on how much she seems to want to destroy your life).
posted by clickingmongrel at 10:06 PM on November 8, 2015
I agree with teamnap. If you wouldn't put up with the behaviour from someone else, then don't put up with it from your mother. Yes, she might have watched out for you when you were a kid, but what has she done for you lately other than trying to get you fired?
Parents are just people and, imo, you don't owe them a thing if they don't earn your respect in some way. Just birthing you and attempting to screw up your life (if that's her specialty) isn't enough.
Do what people in the gay community have been doing for ages--make your own family of choice from close friends and other people who are supportive and worth bothering with. Dump your own family to the extent that they are toxic--and don't spend too much time looking back. It sounds harsh, but it's probably best for you.
It would be easier if your mom didn't desire to interfere in your life in such a toxic way, though (not sure I feel this is love based on how much she seems to want to destroy your life).
posted by clickingmongrel at 10:06 PM on November 8, 2015
Wish her well and hope for her improved mental health, but do it from afar. She's not able to be anything but toxic. You can't fix what is broken in her.
Also, some therapy to help you deal with your toxic family of origin might help with maintaining the boundaries you know are appropriate.
posted by 26.2 at 10:23 PM on November 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Also, some therapy to help you deal with your toxic family of origin might help with maintaining the boundaries you know are appropriate.
posted by 26.2 at 10:23 PM on November 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
I have your mom. No contact going on, oh, 20+ years now?
I also had well meaning family that tried to reconcile us. I guess they forgot the abuse, assault, trauma, mental illness part of the situation? Your relatives forgot, too?
Anywho.
Do you want to heal from the anxiety and trauma? Do you want to remain physically safe? Emotionally safe? Do you someday want a successful marriage or similar committed relationship and well adjusted children of your own?
If you want these things, your poor mentally ill mother and her enablers need to stay far away or out of your life altogether, depending on individual situations. You should seek therapy to learn tools, techniques, to recalibrate your sensibilities in relationships and healthy coping skills for tough times we all face in life.
Go ahead and grieve. It's over. You can set a secret pact with yourself to revisit this decision if your mom ever seeks true help for her condition. I suppose. By the time you do all the hard work required to get yourself OK in life, you very possibly might not want to. Recovering from abuse like this is like getting sober. I totally understand folks who need a zero tolerance policy regarding booze to keep themselves well. It's so easy to get sucked back in and lose every good thing you have in life.
Also. I take a hard boundary against anyone who fucks with my ability to financially support myself. Your mom isn't safe for you. Even if she's at arm's length.
I'm so sorry. For sure it gets better if you work at living beyond this situation. That's all I got. YMMV. Best of luck moving forward.
posted by jbenben at 10:28 PM on November 8, 2015 [28 favorites]
I also had well meaning family that tried to reconcile us. I guess they forgot the abuse, assault, trauma, mental illness part of the situation? Your relatives forgot, too?
Anywho.
Do you want to heal from the anxiety and trauma? Do you want to remain physically safe? Emotionally safe? Do you someday want a successful marriage or similar committed relationship and well adjusted children of your own?
If you want these things, your poor mentally ill mother and her enablers need to stay far away or out of your life altogether, depending on individual situations. You should seek therapy to learn tools, techniques, to recalibrate your sensibilities in relationships and healthy coping skills for tough times we all face in life.
Go ahead and grieve. It's over. You can set a secret pact with yourself to revisit this decision if your mom ever seeks true help for her condition. I suppose. By the time you do all the hard work required to get yourself OK in life, you very possibly might not want to. Recovering from abuse like this is like getting sober. I totally understand folks who need a zero tolerance policy regarding booze to keep themselves well. It's so easy to get sucked back in and lose every good thing you have in life.
Also. I take a hard boundary against anyone who fucks with my ability to financially support myself. Your mom isn't safe for you. Even if she's at arm's length.
I'm so sorry. For sure it gets better if you work at living beyond this situation. That's all I got. YMMV. Best of luck moving forward.
posted by jbenben at 10:28 PM on November 8, 2015 [28 favorites]
I think that if you decide you're motivated enough to have contact with her for your own reasons, you should do it with backup, i.e. therapy. It does sound like she's suffering from a mental illness. She obviously can't be diagnosed based on 2ndhand information (and certainly not by any of us, obviously) but more insight into her behaviour, and your responses to it, could help, in that I think looking at her, and your shared history, through the lens of mental illness might relieve you of some of the pain of your history and your expectations. It also might make it easier to detach, if you do see her and she behaves in aggressive ways; also to manage guilt if/when you have to leave her again for however long. (It's not a perfect safeguard, though, no way to avoid some disappointment and pain when you see her. Unless she agrees to get some help - which you can't control, either.)
The first few chapters of this book describe some ways of managing expectations and emotions around a "difficult" parent (i.e. a parent with a probable untreated mental illness). It's for caregivers, but I'm not suggesting you should be a caregiver - mentioning it only to provide an idea of the kind of emotional work that might be involved, and some ideas for coping techniques that might help, if you do decide to do it.
In answer to your question, not without help, imo, and only under very qualified conditions, that would depend on answers to questions we here don't/can't have.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:32 PM on November 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
The first few chapters of this book describe some ways of managing expectations and emotions around a "difficult" parent (i.e. a parent with a probable untreated mental illness). It's for caregivers, but I'm not suggesting you should be a caregiver - mentioning it only to provide an idea of the kind of emotional work that might be involved, and some ideas for coping techniques that might help, if you do decide to do it.
In answer to your question, not without help, imo, and only under very qualified conditions, that would depend on answers to questions we here don't/can't have.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:32 PM on November 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Something not being bad for you doesn't make it good for you.
Your mother has proved repeatedly that she's going to treat you badly. As you say yourself, things will be nice until they're not, and you'll be in the situation of cutting her off again. If this has been a one-off and she apologised profusely and made some kind of amends, then I'd be thinking differently. But she's shown you already what is going to happen.
She said that "If you knew how much I love you, you wouldn't need boundaries"
This is a really fucked up thing to say. She's telling you right there that she won't respect your sense of self as an individual. And if she loves you so much, why is she insulting you? Loving someone means you would never do that.
If your neighbour had a really cute, tiny little dog that tried to rip out your throat every time you tried to pet it, you'd stop petting it. No matter how fluffy and cuddly it was. You have ample evidence to support the idea that this person (trying to see her as less of "your mom" and instead "just some random person" might help) will attack you. Don't go back for more of the same. You're doing the right thing in having boundaries!
posted by Solomon at 12:36 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Your mother has proved repeatedly that she's going to treat you badly. As you say yourself, things will be nice until they're not, and you'll be in the situation of cutting her off again. If this has been a one-off and she apologised profusely and made some kind of amends, then I'd be thinking differently. But she's shown you already what is going to happen.
She said that "If you knew how much I love you, you wouldn't need boundaries"
This is a really fucked up thing to say. She's telling you right there that she won't respect your sense of self as an individual. And if she loves you so much, why is she insulting you? Loving someone means you would never do that.
If your neighbour had a really cute, tiny little dog that tried to rip out your throat every time you tried to pet it, you'd stop petting it. No matter how fluffy and cuddly it was. You have ample evidence to support the idea that this person (trying to see her as less of "your mom" and instead "just some random person" might help) will attack you. Don't go back for more of the same. You're doing the right thing in having boundaries!
posted by Solomon at 12:36 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd take the physical assaults any day over the emotional violence, the threats to your livelihood, and the double binds (she loves you but you'll never be loved! Oy vey).
I was ready for this to be a post full of grey areas and subtleties but really it's just a giant flashing neon sign that says You Made The Right Decision, Don't Second Guess Yourself.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 12:41 AM on November 9, 2015 [22 favorites]
I was ready for this to be a post full of grey areas and subtleties but really it's just a giant flashing neon sign that says You Made The Right Decision, Don't Second Guess Yourself.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 12:41 AM on November 9, 2015 [22 favorites]
Your mother is abusive. It is one thing to feel compassion and concern for her mental health, but you should not sacrifice your own wellbeing out of concern for hers.
posted by teponaztli at 12:54 AM on November 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 12:54 AM on November 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
Do you have any reason to have realistic hope that renewing contact with her will lead to a better outcome this time? Because you have not described a generically difficult parent here, you've described somebody who physically attacks you, and actively tries to sabotage your life in other ways, and unless something about her personality has changed radically, I can't see what you have to gain from reconciling, other than more of the same.
posted by skybluepink at 1:09 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by skybluepink at 1:09 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you should not try to reconcile with your mom at this time, until you've gone through some extensive work grounding yourself, because a lot of the way you're framing your history in this question says to me that you're still highly at risk for getting sucked back into an abusive relationship with her.
So, as per what you're saying, your mom has stalked you and tried to get your workplace to fire you for being gay, continued to try to stalk you after having done this, physically assaulted you multiple times, and trashed your apartment, throwing food all over the place, while you had locked yourself in your room after she'd hit you. She is violent and disturbed and has actively tried to destroy your livelihood. She is a clear and present danger to you. Like other commenters have said, we can't diagnose her, but something is obviously very wrong.
What concerns me about your question is that you're seem like you're kind of still trying to explain and rationalize these incidents in a way that sounds like you're still not sure whether or not you were the wronged party or if you actually did provoke her, if you somehow really did deserve to be the target of her violence. So to be clear, no, there is no way that having one hamper of clean and one hamper of dirty laundry is a legitimate catalyst for someone going apeshit and beating their child with a tray of Italian food and then wrecking the house in a screaming tantrum that summons the neighbors. Not if they've been living in that apartment with that laundry setup for two weeks, not if they've been living there for twenty years. We don't need to know that you'd only just moved in and were working and attending school and didn't have your living space set up yet. That's not even close to a real reason for the kind of violence you described, and it worries me that you think there's even enough of a chance it might be that you feel like you need to explain your laundry/work/school situation to metafilter just in case we think your mom was totally reasonable for wrecking your apartment and hitting you for being such a slob.
If you do, at some point in your life, want to let your mother back into your life, I think it's going to have to be at a time when you have rock-solid internal defenses against her abusive/deranged behavior. cotton dress sock has a lot of good advice and information about the kind of detached, context-heavy approach you will probably need to take to having a relationship with someone as mentally and emotionally disturbed as your mom, and I think you're going to want to work on getting there, on really understanding that she is insane and that you don't deserve to be treated the way she's treated you, before you even consider letting her closer. Please take care of yourself. Good luck.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 1:14 AM on November 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
So, as per what you're saying, your mom has stalked you and tried to get your workplace to fire you for being gay, continued to try to stalk you after having done this, physically assaulted you multiple times, and trashed your apartment, throwing food all over the place, while you had locked yourself in your room after she'd hit you. She is violent and disturbed and has actively tried to destroy your livelihood. She is a clear and present danger to you. Like other commenters have said, we can't diagnose her, but something is obviously very wrong.
What concerns me about your question is that you're seem like you're kind of still trying to explain and rationalize these incidents in a way that sounds like you're still not sure whether or not you were the wronged party or if you actually did provoke her, if you somehow really did deserve to be the target of her violence. So to be clear, no, there is no way that having one hamper of clean and one hamper of dirty laundry is a legitimate catalyst for someone going apeshit and beating their child with a tray of Italian food and then wrecking the house in a screaming tantrum that summons the neighbors. Not if they've been living in that apartment with that laundry setup for two weeks, not if they've been living there for twenty years. We don't need to know that you'd only just moved in and were working and attending school and didn't have your living space set up yet. That's not even close to a real reason for the kind of violence you described, and it worries me that you think there's even enough of a chance it might be that you feel like you need to explain your laundry/work/school situation to metafilter just in case we think your mom was totally reasonable for wrecking your apartment and hitting you for being such a slob.
If you do, at some point in your life, want to let your mother back into your life, I think it's going to have to be at a time when you have rock-solid internal defenses against her abusive/deranged behavior. cotton dress sock has a lot of good advice and information about the kind of detached, context-heavy approach you will probably need to take to having a relationship with someone as mentally and emotionally disturbed as your mom, and I think you're going to want to work on getting there, on really understanding that she is insane and that you don't deserve to be treated the way she's treated you, before you even consider letting her closer. Please take care of yourself. Good luck.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 1:14 AM on November 9, 2015 [15 favorites]
She is in pain.
I'm so sorry, she probably is, but - have you seen the phrase: Hurt people hurt people.
This is that situation.
She probably is, but her hurting you will not help. It will not make her pain go away. She probably treats herself the way she thinks is acceptable to treat you. Modelling that that isn't acceptable is better for her than putting up with it.
If you let her be in contact, and treat you the way you KNOW she will treat you, the most likely outcome will only be to ensure that you are hurt in the same ways that she hurts, and to think that that is an acceptable way to treat other people.
It isn't.
Do you think it is ok to treat other people in the way she has treated you? It isn't.
If you do have contact with her, you know she will eventually act in unacceptable ways, so you will need boundaries that you wouldn't need with other people.
Whatever you KNOW will work.
For example, would she act this way in front of a neutral 3rd party? If not, then make sure you only ever see her in a neutral space, with someone else there.
If she won't meet you in 'safe' spaces, then she is making the choice not to see you.
Also, yes, it might be helpful to see a therapist, but a better indicator that she is really willing to change, would be if she would see a therapist.
Also, I'm not diagnosing your mother, but you may find it helpful to look at resources aimed at helping adult children of abusively mentally ill parents with extreme boundary problems, since there will be some similarities and useful techniques there, even if the issues are different.
Google bpd parents, narcissistic parents etc.
posted by Elysum at 1:47 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm so sorry, she probably is, but - have you seen the phrase: Hurt people hurt people.
This is that situation.
She probably is, but her hurting you will not help. It will not make her pain go away. She probably treats herself the way she thinks is acceptable to treat you. Modelling that that isn't acceptable is better for her than putting up with it.
If you let her be in contact, and treat you the way you KNOW she will treat you, the most likely outcome will only be to ensure that you are hurt in the same ways that she hurts, and to think that that is an acceptable way to treat other people.
It isn't.
Do you think it is ok to treat other people in the way she has treated you? It isn't.
If you do have contact with her, you know she will eventually act in unacceptable ways, so you will need boundaries that you wouldn't need with other people.
Whatever you KNOW will work.
For example, would she act this way in front of a neutral 3rd party? If not, then make sure you only ever see her in a neutral space, with someone else there.
If she won't meet you in 'safe' spaces, then she is making the choice not to see you.
Also, yes, it might be helpful to see a therapist, but a better indicator that she is really willing to change, would be if she would see a therapist.
Also, I'm not diagnosing your mother, but you may find it helpful to look at resources aimed at helping adult children of abusively mentally ill parents with extreme boundary problems, since there will be some similarities and useful techniques there, even if the issues are different.
Google bpd parents, narcissistic parents etc.
posted by Elysum at 1:47 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
No: enough is enough. She is and has been both physically and emotionally abusive to you for years, and that isn't going to change. It doesn't matter WHY she is abusive --- whether she is mentally unstable or just a mean bitch --- all that matters is that she IS abusive.
Cut her off entirely: total radio silence. No phone calls made or received, no texts or emails or anything else. And when your father tries to pass things along from her, refuse them: do not accept any notes or cards (leave him standing there holding them), hang up or walk away when he tries to pass verbal messages. Ditto for your aunt or anyone else who tries to intervene: tell them you do not want to hear it, and WALK AWAY if they continue --- it's okay to make and keep boundaries, and they'll just have to accept that.
Your mother may or may not "love" you; we can't say which is true. What we CAN say is that she has a long, long history of abusing you, and you have every right to cut her out of your life, no matter what other people may think.
posted by easily confused at 1:48 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Cut her off entirely: total radio silence. No phone calls made or received, no texts or emails or anything else. And when your father tries to pass things along from her, refuse them: do not accept any notes or cards (leave him standing there holding them), hang up or walk away when he tries to pass verbal messages. Ditto for your aunt or anyone else who tries to intervene: tell them you do not want to hear it, and WALK AWAY if they continue --- it's okay to make and keep boundaries, and they'll just have to accept that.
Your mother may or may not "love" you; we can't say which is true. What we CAN say is that she has a long, long history of abusing you, and you have every right to cut her out of your life, no matter what other people may think.
posted by easily confused at 1:48 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I am one of the most "love your family" people on MeFi, and I believe that you are doing the right thing for yourself by leaving her cut off. Warm thoughts to you.
posted by kimberussell at 3:42 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 3:42 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
You could give her another chance, but with many boundaries set up up front.
"Hi Mom, you and I have had a lot of differences in the past. You're my mother and I'd like to have you in my life, but there are a lot of things I won't stand for.
If we're going to have a relationship, I need to feel safe. Any sort of verbal or physical abuse will not be tolerated by me. Verbal abuse includes x, y, and z. Physical abuse includes X, y, and z.
You seem to have a lot of anger toward me; I'd like it if you were to start therapy or some sort of spiritual program where you could explore your expectations of me and where I seem to drop the ball according to you.
I'd like to start slow: maybe just be friends on Facebook for awhile. Then, we can meet for coffee or talk on the phone. If, at any time, I feel uncomfortable with the new step, we can return to the old step (only Facebook friends) until I feel comfortable again."
Feel free to explore this with a therapist.
It's not easy; I had to estrange myself somewhat from my sister. I found a comfortable medium that worked for me. It sucks that we're not BFFs, but I also don't have the distress that came with having her in my life on a daily basis.
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 3:52 AM on November 9, 2015
"Hi Mom, you and I have had a lot of differences in the past. You're my mother and I'd like to have you in my life, but there are a lot of things I won't stand for.
If we're going to have a relationship, I need to feel safe. Any sort of verbal or physical abuse will not be tolerated by me. Verbal abuse includes x, y, and z. Physical abuse includes X, y, and z.
You seem to have a lot of anger toward me; I'd like it if you were to start therapy or some sort of spiritual program where you could explore your expectations of me and where I seem to drop the ball according to you.
I'd like to start slow: maybe just be friends on Facebook for awhile. Then, we can meet for coffee or talk on the phone. If, at any time, I feel uncomfortable with the new step, we can return to the old step (only Facebook friends) until I feel comfortable again."
Feel free to explore this with a therapist.
It's not easy; I had to estrange myself somewhat from my sister. I found a comfortable medium that worked for me. It sucks that we're not BFFs, but I also don't have the distress that came with having her in my life on a daily basis.
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 3:52 AM on November 9, 2015
Do you even want to reconnect? It sounds like you're just contemplating it because other people are bugging you to. In which case: fuck them, they aren't the ones dealing with your mom's inevitable abuse. They just want what sets their mind at ease.
Consider warning your dad that if he passes on messages or bugs you about reconciling, you'll cut him off, too.
You owe them nothing, they've used up all the goodwill you could conceivably owe them a hundred times.
posted by Omnomnom at 4:17 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Consider warning your dad that if he passes on messages or bugs you about reconciling, you'll cut him off, too.
You owe them nothing, they've used up all the goodwill you could conceivably owe them a hundred times.
posted by Omnomnom at 4:17 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have a relative like this. I carry a lot of guilt over our partial estrangement. I know my relative is struggling and in pain and I love this person very much. However, EVERY TIME I let my guard down and allow our contact with each other to go any deeper than very superficial interaction, my relative brings the drama all over again. I also hear "you should be over that by now" a lot, but it's hard to get over something when it keeps happening again and again and again.
Ask yourself — do you want to continue this pattern of extrangement/reconciliation/estrangement/reconciliation your whole life?
I have found the following sub-Reddits helpful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BPDSOFFA/
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists
posted by Brittanie at 4:27 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ask yourself — do you want to continue this pattern of extrangement/reconciliation/estrangement/reconciliation your whole life?
I have found the following sub-Reddits helpful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BPDSOFFA/
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists
posted by Brittanie at 4:27 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
A core belief in a lot of 12 step programs is that many people won't reach out for help ... and by help, I mean therapy or program, not family enablement ... until they hit bottom.
Your family is enabling your mom to continue on her path. They think they're being kind to her ("poor sick Margaret!") but it is exactly the opposite. Like most people, they want the easy way out... and there may be other reasons why they enable her. I don't know.
I support your decision to cut contact with your mom for all of the reasons the other commenters have said, AND: If she pays enough external prices, like losing relationships with family, she might eventually enter therapy, and I hope she finds a good therapist. Sadly, with your family around, I don't think this will happen, but YOU will have done the spiritually right thing.
I don't think you owe her any more communication to that effect or any other. That stunt of calling your employer means that she doesn't have your wellbeing in mind at all. (You're right about her not being ABLE to have anyone else's wellbeing in mind.) You shouldn't have to pay any more prices because of her mental illness.
Nthing the idea of your finding your own therapist.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 4:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Your family is enabling your mom to continue on her path. They think they're being kind to her ("poor sick Margaret!") but it is exactly the opposite. Like most people, they want the easy way out... and there may be other reasons why they enable her. I don't know.
I support your decision to cut contact with your mom for all of the reasons the other commenters have said, AND: If she pays enough external prices, like losing relationships with family, she might eventually enter therapy, and I hope she finds a good therapist. Sadly, with your family around, I don't think this will happen, but YOU will have done the spiritually right thing.
I don't think you owe her any more communication to that effect or any other. That stunt of calling your employer means that she doesn't have your wellbeing in mind at all. (You're right about her not being ABLE to have anyone else's wellbeing in mind.) You shouldn't have to pay any more prices because of her mental illness.
Nthing the idea of your finding your own therapist.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 4:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Pardon my language --- no f'ng way.
Move on with your life and do not look back. YOU will be a better person for it . Our society 'values' the parent-child child-parent relationship. That works for 99.99999999% of society. Your mother has shown she is the 0.00000001%. Do not let norms' guilt you in to a destructive path.
26 years later I am a better person than I would have been had I remained in a destructive relationship (I cannot say the same for all of my siblings).
posted by prk60091 at 4:52 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Move on with your life and do not look back. YOU will be a better person for it . Our society 'values' the parent-child child-parent relationship. That works for 99.99999999% of society. Your mother has shown she is the 0.00000001%. Do not let norms' guilt you in to a destructive path.
26 years later I am a better person than I would have been had I remained in a destructive relationship (I cannot say the same for all of my siblings).
posted by prk60091 at 4:52 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
So... your mother physically attacked you, verbally abused you - several times over years - and tried to get you fired to boot. And you want to let her back into your life, even though she has expressly said that she does not respect and will not honour your clearly stated boundaries?
In your place, I wouldn't do this in a million years. Your mother will only hurt you, again. Protect yourself.
Some of my friends and family think I should give her another chance. They don't really understand what she is like though.
Then they don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and you can and should ignore them.
I do feel bad that she is in pain, and I am honestly over the things in our past.
She is a grown up. Her pain is not your problem. And letting her hurt you again will not lessen her pain, it will only increase yours.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:52 AM on November 9, 2015 [19 favorites]
In your place, I wouldn't do this in a million years. Your mother will only hurt you, again. Protect yourself.
Some of my friends and family think I should give her another chance. They don't really understand what she is like though.
Then they don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and you can and should ignore them.
I do feel bad that she is in pain, and I am honestly over the things in our past.
She is a grown up. Her pain is not your problem. And letting her hurt you again will not lessen her pain, it will only increase yours.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:52 AM on November 9, 2015 [19 favorites]
One idea would be that her pain is principally the same pain she used to inflict on you. Ponder that. Even if you really truly were over the things of the past, that same past is her present. So it will happen again. There can be no doubt about that.
It is so very difficult to turn away from close family (and it is so very easy to suggest it, as an anonymous onlooker) but in the scenario you outline above, it looks like you do need to protect yourself. Permanently.
posted by Namlit at 5:30 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
It is so very difficult to turn away from close family (and it is so very easy to suggest it, as an anonymous onlooker) but in the scenario you outline above, it looks like you do need to protect yourself. Permanently.
posted by Namlit at 5:30 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you should take a look at the subreddit Raised by Narcissists. You will find a lot of support. I think going No Contact with your mom is a very good idea.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 6:08 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 6:08 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
You seem more concerned about her pain than your own. She on the other hand seems only concerned about her own.
You do not have to accept the letters just because your father delivers them. Refuse to take them, or simply shed them unread.
Family don't get to treat you badly just because you share DNA.
posted by wwax at 6:12 AM on November 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
You do not have to accept the letters just because your father delivers them. Refuse to take them, or simply shed them unread.
Family don't get to treat you badly just because you share DNA.
posted by wwax at 6:12 AM on November 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
You don't owe her anything. You are not responsible for her pain. She has not treated you well.
Some of my friends and family think I should give her another chance.
I know it's tough when other people pressure you. I've been there.... I am estranged from my mother, and I know outsiders may think I'm cruel or lack compassion (my mother also suffers from mental illness). However I have done what I need to do to protect myself and my child. People who are not in your position do not understand what it's like. You need to do what's best for YOU, not your mother. I had given my mother many many "second chances" over the years, and each time it resulted in temporary relief and long term pain. Eventually I decided I needed to prioritize my own mental health and that of my child and husband.
I'm not saying you shouldn't give her another chance, but only do it if YOU want to do it, not because other people are telling you that you should. You are the one that has to live with the consequences.
posted by barnoley at 6:46 AM on November 9, 2015
Some of my friends and family think I should give her another chance.
I know it's tough when other people pressure you. I've been there.... I am estranged from my mother, and I know outsiders may think I'm cruel or lack compassion (my mother also suffers from mental illness). However I have done what I need to do to protect myself and my child. People who are not in your position do not understand what it's like. You need to do what's best for YOU, not your mother. I had given my mother many many "second chances" over the years, and each time it resulted in temporary relief and long term pain. Eventually I decided I needed to prioritize my own mental health and that of my child and husband.
I'm not saying you shouldn't give her another chance, but only do it if YOU want to do it, not because other people are telling you that you should. You are the one that has to live with the consequences.
posted by barnoley at 6:46 AM on November 9, 2015
No. This is unacceptable behavior and is dangerous to you physically and mentally. I'm a fan of Toxic Mom Toolkit. She also has a Facebook page that I follow which occasionally makes me laugh out loud and occasionally reminds me that I am not alone.
You get this one life. Live it for yourself.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:02 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
You get this one life. Live it for yourself.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:02 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I agree that it sounds like your mom has a mental illness. She needs professional help for whatever disorder causes her to act in a harmful and violent manner. You should not reconcile with her. You may want to have your last communication with her make it clear that you believe she needs therapeutic help, but regardless, I would continue to prioritize your health and well-being, which means keeping distance from her toxic and abusive behavior.
posted by Gray Skies at 7:14 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by Gray Skies at 7:14 AM on November 9, 2015
I commented up top. I think I downplayed an important aspect, and since it wasn't really underscored before or after me in the thread I wanted to bring the issue back to your attention.
Regarding the physical abuse and physical assault...
I wrote that I make a hard boundary against anyone who messes with my ability to financially support myself, remember? That goes times one million for anyone who puts me in physical jeopardy. Most people know this, but folks raised like you and me do not know this. It's like this giant blind spot in the vision. Like, it's OK that that your mom threw a tray of manicotti at you, because it was not a hammer. See what I mean?
Remember I mentioned recalibrating your sensibilities regarding relationships? This is exactly what I was referring to.
Long story short, whenever I read in the news that someone killed family member(s), especially during the holidays? Yeah, I always know I'm lucky because that could be me. Physical violence escalates if you stick around long enough, and it is unpredictable, regardless.
Therapy is a great idea because you deserve to be safe, with the skills to make it happen.
posted by jbenben at 7:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
Regarding the physical abuse and physical assault...
I wrote that I make a hard boundary against anyone who messes with my ability to financially support myself, remember? That goes times one million for anyone who puts me in physical jeopardy. Most people know this, but folks raised like you and me do not know this. It's like this giant blind spot in the vision. Like, it's OK that that your mom threw a tray of manicotti at you, because it was not a hammer. See what I mean?
Remember I mentioned recalibrating your sensibilities regarding relationships? This is exactly what I was referring to.
Long story short, whenever I read in the news that someone killed family member(s), especially during the holidays? Yeah, I always know I'm lucky because that could be me. Physical violence escalates if you stick around long enough, and it is unpredictable, regardless.
Therapy is a great idea because you deserve to be safe, with the skills to make it happen.
posted by jbenben at 7:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [8 favorites]
What she has done is abusive and speaks to mental illness. To tell someone that boundaries shouldn't matter if you love someone is just about the most unhealthy concept possible. A loving parent does not physically attack their child. They do not try to get their child fired for who they are. And if they have hurt someone, as your mother has certainly hurt you? They feel ashamed and guilty and ask for forgiveness. They make amends without expecting forgiveness and are grateful if that forgiveness is granted.
Your mother is trying to make her unhealthy behavior your fault. She is trying to make you feel guilty for things you have done. Please don't give her another chance to hurt you until she feels ready to change her behavior.
posted by goggie at 7:56 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your mother is trying to make her unhealthy behavior your fault. She is trying to make you feel guilty for things you have done. Please don't give her another chance to hurt you until she feels ready to change her behavior.
posted by goggie at 7:56 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
A loving parent does not physically attack their child. They do not try to get their child fired for who they are.
Yeah, this is the kind of 'love' that is obsessively fixated on controlling every aspect of the beloved object. I think a 'love' like that is more terrifying than hate, because hate isn't quite so self-feeding. (Also your arch-nemesis person who hated you probably couldn't recruit so much support from your aunts, etc.)
posted by puddledork at 8:40 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, this is the kind of 'love' that is obsessively fixated on controlling every aspect of the beloved object. I think a 'love' like that is more terrifying than hate, because hate isn't quite so self-feeding. (Also your arch-nemesis person who hated you probably couldn't recruit so much support from your aunts, etc.)
posted by puddledork at 8:40 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
She said that "If you knew how much I love you, you wouldn't need boundaries".
Classic red flag of a narcissist basically making their abuse of you about THEM and their inability to get you to totally subsume yourself to them. You tried. I'd sit this one out. No drama just polite but firm refusal. It might help to model normative behavior here. A parent who was getting "You hurt me" messages from a kid (whether or not there was actual hurt, which there definitely WAS in your case) would be trying to work on it and work it out, not varying between insults and "Why are you doing this to ME" messaging. Fuck it. Life is too short and I think you are fine without her,
posted by jessamyn at 9:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Classic red flag of a narcissist basically making their abuse of you about THEM and their inability to get you to totally subsume yourself to them. You tried. I'd sit this one out. No drama just polite but firm refusal. It might help to model normative behavior here. A parent who was getting "You hurt me" messages from a kid (whether or not there was actual hurt, which there definitely WAS in your case) would be trying to work on it and work it out, not varying between insults and "Why are you doing this to ME" messaging. Fuck it. Life is too short and I think you are fine without her,
posted by jessamyn at 9:25 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
She sounds like a danger to you.
I literally wondered if it was somehow a joke when you said "attacked me with a tray of manicotti" because that's such an outlandish thing for her to do. But no, everything in your post indicates that this really happened, and I'm gobsmacked. It's so abnormal, it's like the infamous bee cake story, except that at least in that situation the offender didn't weaponize the cake.
What kind of mother makes you food and then weaponizes the food? Nothing about this is your fault, not even if your clothing was still in hampers. There is no cause and effect from anything you did, it is bizarre and aggressive behaviour on her part, completely unprovoked by you.
She damaged your apartment and tried to sabotage you at work. For your own safety, you should not have contact with her. This isn't even about forgiveness, it's about keeping yourself out of the trajectory of someone who has damaged your ability to be housed and to earn a living, and will do so again if she gets the chance.
It's unfortunate that others in your family don't understand your position, but either she has them fooled or they're as dysfunctional as she is. If they're fooled, they may have experiences that bring them around to agreeing with you. If they're as dysfunctional as she is, you're better off without them.
I'm sorry, this sucks. I wish you had a mom who doesn't hurt you.
posted by tel3path at 9:44 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
I literally wondered if it was somehow a joke when you said "attacked me with a tray of manicotti" because that's such an outlandish thing for her to do. But no, everything in your post indicates that this really happened, and I'm gobsmacked. It's so abnormal, it's like the infamous bee cake story, except that at least in that situation the offender didn't weaponize the cake.
What kind of mother makes you food and then weaponizes the food? Nothing about this is your fault, not even if your clothing was still in hampers. There is no cause and effect from anything you did, it is bizarre and aggressive behaviour on her part, completely unprovoked by you.
She damaged your apartment and tried to sabotage you at work. For your own safety, you should not have contact with her. This isn't even about forgiveness, it's about keeping yourself out of the trajectory of someone who has damaged your ability to be housed and to earn a living, and will do so again if she gets the chance.
It's unfortunate that others in your family don't understand your position, but either she has them fooled or they're as dysfunctional as she is. If they're fooled, they may have experiences that bring them around to agreeing with you. If they're as dysfunctional as she is, you're better off without them.
I'm sorry, this sucks. I wish you had a mom who doesn't hurt you.
posted by tel3path at 9:44 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm sorry, I misread: it was your aunt who called your employer? Definitely cut off contact with your aunt, too. For your own safety. Forgiveness is a distraction from this issue. It's a matter of personal safety.
posted by tel3path at 9:46 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 9:46 AM on November 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
She said that "If you knew how much I love you, you wouldn't need boundaries"
This is a terrifying thing for someone to say to you, no matter who they are. I would stick to the no-contact thing and also throw away without reading any notes passed on by dad, as they will contain nothing but further pain. Block her phone number from calling you, and otherwise just delete her messages without listening.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:49 AM on November 9, 2015 [12 favorites]
This is a terrifying thing for someone to say to you, no matter who they are. I would stick to the no-contact thing and also throw away without reading any notes passed on by dad, as they will contain nothing but further pain. Block her phone number from calling you, and otherwise just delete her messages without listening.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:49 AM on November 9, 2015 [12 favorites]
And if anyone you know questions your decision, say "It's a matter of personal safety" and refuse to discuss it any further. The more they pry at you, the more you should be questioning how much they respect you. But if they do keep prying, say "Cut it out!" No need to discuss at length.
posted by tel3path at 9:59 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by tel3path at 9:59 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Your mom isn't in pain. She is using her "emotions" to get what she wants from you. In fact, I bet she doesn't even give a care about the actual relationship between you and her - she cares more about those other people who know that you are estranged and how it looks to them. As soon as you said the thing about the DVDs, I knew it was all about appearances.
Check out this book and see what rings true for you about her.
Also this book on Emotional Blackmail might be really good as well.
I didn't talk to my mom for about 3 years when I was in college and just after. During that time, she attended rehab and stopped drinking so I began seeing her again but, also during that time, I gave up any notion that I had a "mother" in the traditional sense of the word. I mourned the relationship and understood that I would never have a nurturing, fulfilling or meaningful relationship with her because she's not capable of it. It has saved me so much suffering and, as sad as it is that I had to do that, I'm so glad I did. My brother keeps trying to get something from her that he'll never get and it's heartbreaking to see him get hurt over and over again. So my advice is to keep on your path and don't resume contact with her until you know you are doing it only because you want to and not as a reaction to her blackmail.
Feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk about it more.
posted by dawkins_7 at 10:08 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Check out this book and see what rings true for you about her.
Also this book on Emotional Blackmail might be really good as well.
I didn't talk to my mom for about 3 years when I was in college and just after. During that time, she attended rehab and stopped drinking so I began seeing her again but, also during that time, I gave up any notion that I had a "mother" in the traditional sense of the word. I mourned the relationship and understood that I would never have a nurturing, fulfilling or meaningful relationship with her because she's not capable of it. It has saved me so much suffering and, as sad as it is that I had to do that, I'm so glad I did. My brother keeps trying to get something from her that he'll never get and it's heartbreaking to see him get hurt over and over again. So my advice is to keep on your path and don't resume contact with her until you know you are doing it only because you want to and not as a reaction to her blackmail.
Feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk about it more.
posted by dawkins_7 at 10:08 AM on November 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
TL;DR: 100% no contact with your mother, none. Block everything, even your other family and friends if they try to make contact on behalf of your mother.
Your mother is physically and mentally abusive. She will never, ever stop. A healthy, loving, caring parent doesn't physically attack or emotionally abuse their child, not even once, not ever. She has done this to you multiple times now and it's not acceptable. You know this, despite her attempts to manipulate you, and you've rightly and correctly cut off contact after these episodes.
While we obviously can't diagnose your mother from a distance, her patterns of behavior are similar to someone with BPD or NPD. These kinds of people don't actually care about their children as individuals, only as a subset of themselves. They see their children as property, to be controlled, manipulated or abused at their whim. BPD/NPD parents will always deny the abuse and their imaginary world is the only one that exists. Reality means nothing to them and they're often so good at projecting this image that other people don't see them for who they really are. The BPD/NPD parent cares far more for their reputation and image than about their own child's welfare. Family and friends become enablers and refuse to understand the abuse that the parent is perpetrating against the child.
That's the situation you're in right now. You have a parent who should be kind and loving, but who is so self-obsessed that she only cares about how she can control and manipulate you to satisfy her own emotional needs. Your mother isn't interested in even acknowledging that there's a problem, which means that her behavior will never, ever change. She has no regard for your well-being and she will never stop this cycle of abuse. She is manipulative and violent and cannot be trusted. She's even gone so far as to enlist other people (father, aunt, friends) into her cause in order to continue her abusive behavior through indirect means.
This is not a person you can continue to allow into your life. You'll cut her off for a while, she'll realize that she has to play nice until she can worm her way back into your good graces and then she'll abuse you again. Wash, rinse, repeat. You deserve better, you deserve to live life without someone assaulting you, abusing you or manipulating you. You need to cut your mother off completely. Stop taking her calls. Block her number. Make sure you don't give your family or friends any information that you don't want passed on to your mother, because you can't trust them to understand how destructive and dangerous she is. If your father doesn't stop delivering her messages, tell him to stop and cut him off if he doesn't. Same with the aunt who keeps trying to reconcile the two of you. Enabling your mother's abusive behavior is not okay, providing direct and indirect support for her abusive behavior is not okay.
It's okay to take a break from family who are helping her hurt you. It's okay to cut her off and never look back. You'll be so much happier when you don't have to deal with her selfishness and her bizarre attempts to manipulate and damage you. Think of the relief you'll feel when you don't have to constantly worry about what terrible thing she's going to do next. You deserve happiness, you deserve to not be treated this way. Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.
posted by i feel possessed at 10:50 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Your mother is physically and mentally abusive. She will never, ever stop. A healthy, loving, caring parent doesn't physically attack or emotionally abuse their child, not even once, not ever. She has done this to you multiple times now and it's not acceptable. You know this, despite her attempts to manipulate you, and you've rightly and correctly cut off contact after these episodes.
While we obviously can't diagnose your mother from a distance, her patterns of behavior are similar to someone with BPD or NPD. These kinds of people don't actually care about their children as individuals, only as a subset of themselves. They see their children as property, to be controlled, manipulated or abused at their whim. BPD/NPD parents will always deny the abuse and their imaginary world is the only one that exists. Reality means nothing to them and they're often so good at projecting this image that other people don't see them for who they really are. The BPD/NPD parent cares far more for their reputation and image than about their own child's welfare. Family and friends become enablers and refuse to understand the abuse that the parent is perpetrating against the child.
That's the situation you're in right now. You have a parent who should be kind and loving, but who is so self-obsessed that she only cares about how she can control and manipulate you to satisfy her own emotional needs. Your mother isn't interested in even acknowledging that there's a problem, which means that her behavior will never, ever change. She has no regard for your well-being and she will never stop this cycle of abuse. She is manipulative and violent and cannot be trusted. She's even gone so far as to enlist other people (father, aunt, friends) into her cause in order to continue her abusive behavior through indirect means.
This is not a person you can continue to allow into your life. You'll cut her off for a while, she'll realize that she has to play nice until she can worm her way back into your good graces and then she'll abuse you again. Wash, rinse, repeat. You deserve better, you deserve to live life without someone assaulting you, abusing you or manipulating you. You need to cut your mother off completely. Stop taking her calls. Block her number. Make sure you don't give your family or friends any information that you don't want passed on to your mother, because you can't trust them to understand how destructive and dangerous she is. If your father doesn't stop delivering her messages, tell him to stop and cut him off if he doesn't. Same with the aunt who keeps trying to reconcile the two of you. Enabling your mother's abusive behavior is not okay, providing direct and indirect support for her abusive behavior is not okay.
It's okay to take a break from family who are helping her hurt you. It's okay to cut her off and never look back. You'll be so much happier when you don't have to deal with her selfishness and her bizarre attempts to manipulate and damage you. Think of the relief you'll feel when you don't have to constantly worry about what terrible thing she's going to do next. You deserve happiness, you deserve to not be treated this way. Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.
posted by i feel possessed at 10:50 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you loved me you wouldn't need boundaries? That's purely abusive behaviour.
You owe your mother exactly nothing. She decided to bring you into this world, she owes you love and respect and support.
Do what is healthiest for you. For me, healthy includes not allowing abusive jerks to abuse me. Sometimes they can be reasoned with, mostly they just need to be excised from my life like a tumour. So I'd say don't bother, and maybe seek therapy to deal with any leftover feelings you have.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:28 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
You owe your mother exactly nothing. She decided to bring you into this world, she owes you love and respect and support.
Do what is healthiest for you. For me, healthy includes not allowing abusive jerks to abuse me. Sometimes they can be reasoned with, mostly they just need to be excised from my life like a tumour. So I'd say don't bother, and maybe seek therapy to deal with any leftover feelings you have.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:28 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Like jbenben, I have your mother, too. I'm no contact now for two years and some change. Best decision I ever made, though I do have occasional pangs of "Should I contact her?" that are borne solely from feelings of obligation. But I stay strong. When I feel weak, I turn to trusted friends who bolster me. You should do that too.
Every single time you've reconciled with your mom, it has gone south. What makes you think the next time would be any different? By inviting contact, you're letting her control you and you open yourself to that abuse again. Don't do it.
Your mom is abusive and ill, you cannot change her, and she is incapable of changing. You seem to know you can't be around her because she's physically and emotionally dangerous to you. Just keep trusting that instinct. Treat her like fire: HOT HOT, DO NOT TOUCH.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 12:20 PM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Every single time you've reconciled with your mom, it has gone south. What makes you think the next time would be any different? By inviting contact, you're letting her control you and you open yourself to that abuse again. Don't do it.
Your mom is abusive and ill, you cannot change her, and she is incapable of changing. You seem to know you can't be around her because she's physically and emotionally dangerous to you. Just keep trusting that instinct. Treat her like fire: HOT HOT, DO NOT TOUCH.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 12:20 PM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
She is in pain.
She wil ALWAYS be in pain... until she treats her mental illness. Being in contact with you won't take away the pain, it will only give her another target.
I cut contact with my mother about 8 years ago, for far less than what yours did to you. No regrets.
posted by clearlydemon at 12:43 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
She wil ALWAYS be in pain... until she treats her mental illness. Being in contact with you won't take away the pain, it will only give her another target.
I cut contact with my mother about 8 years ago, for far less than what yours did to you. No regrets.
posted by clearlydemon at 12:43 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
She said that "If you knew how much I love you, you wouldn't need boundaries".
Imagine someone telling you that a person in their life said those exact words. You'd instantly see it for the textbook abuse and manipulation that it is.
Your mother has physically attacked you and tried to ruin your life via attempts to get you fired (or was this your aunt? either way, cut off mom AND the aunt if she was the one who called).
You have my permission to never speak to her again.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:54 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Imagine someone telling you that a person in their life said those exact words. You'd instantly see it for the textbook abuse and manipulation that it is.
Your mother has physically attacked you and tried to ruin your life via attempts to get you fired (or was this your aunt? either way, cut off mom AND the aunt if she was the one who called).
You have my permission to never speak to her again.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:54 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't know what you should do, but it should be based on your feelings, not hers. Barring extraordinarily unlikely personality changes, she is never going to be safe for you, and she is never going to be content with what you can give her. She will be less sad, but she will probably always be sad, and she will certainly always be angry to some degree (and possibly I'm projecting from my own life here, but I suspect she will become more angry as she gets more of what she wants, because she will feel more entitled.) So this is and has to be about what you can live with, because you can't achieve what you want for her (her happiness), no matter what involved third parties may claim, even if you sacrifice your own well-being to get there.
I am so, so sorry. You sound so wistful - like you know you are doing the right thing for yourself but are hoping against hope we will see a good option you couldn't.
posted by gingerest at 1:26 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am so, so sorry. You sound so wistful - like you know you are doing the right thing for yourself but are hoping against hope we will see a good option you couldn't.
posted by gingerest at 1:26 PM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
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If that's what happened, it's a hell of a story and a hell of a distillation of a theme. You don't make manicotti for someone unless you do love them and have the intention of nurturing them somehow. And you don't attack them with it unless you are seriously unhinged and unable to adhere to decent norms of behavior, despite your love.
As I read it, your mother suffers from mental illness. Doesn't mean you need to expose yourself to it, though, by a long shot. Your emotional and physical safety comes first.
If you really want to be kind, I suppose you could send some sort of message back through your dad. But I wouldn't do it in person.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:35 PM on November 8, 2015 [48 favorites]