How to deal with an unfinished education due to an abusive parent?
November 5, 2015 2:34 PM Subscribe
I am shortly about to be on a job hunt for the first time in over a decade. I have a fair bit of experience as a professional, but the one thing I do not have is a completed degree, for reasons that are perhaps explicable, but how best to explain them?. Details within.
After high school I went straight into college. I was living at home still, as my school was in my home town. My parents were divorced when I was young. The parent I was living with was a moderately high-functioning alcoholic (who has since sought treatment and has been sober for more than a decade), but in those days there was physical abuse, which got worse with passing years. During my final year of school, things became so bad I had to drop out partway through the year; I moved out to avoid the beatings, and had to take a job to support myself. Moving in with the other parent wasn't an option, btw -- other parent was living in a different city in a bungalow with growing family #2.
I was ignorant in the ways of the registrar's office, and didn't actually tell the school I was withdrawing but just stopped going to class, so marks went from honors student to zero. I wrote the year off. For what it's worth I had a well-paying summer job and paid my tuition and books on my own with no help from my parents. I figured once things settled down with me I would repeat the year.
To my chagrin, when I went back to the registrar's office some months later to re-enroll, I was told I could not as I had walked out already. The exact words used were, "Why should we give you another kick at the can when there are other people who have not failed out before trying to get in?" My answers were not convincing enough, it seems.
I went forth into the working world and made my way with mostly satisfactory jobs. Within a few years I found my way into a career. The place I have worked for more than a decade is wrapping up operations and I will shortly be out of a job, and there is no obvious competitor to go across the street to... it is a small industry, dominated by one company in this country. The company is desperately struggling, and by the time I leave it will have laid off 80% of it workforce. One of the people bought out before me reckons it will be gone in two years.
Everything remotely comparable to my job that I have looked at requires a degree. My last (current) job technically did as well, but the guy who hired me had worked with me at another workplace -- which I had started at in an entry-level post -- and thought highly enough of my abilities to waive the requirement. He has now retired and it will be a blank slate wherever I look next.
My resume lists the years I was in university but does not mention a degree. I have considered going back to school, but when last I did the school I applied to said, "Your credits are all from out of state and more than ten years old, so we cannot give you any credit for those."
It is possible my old school would honor my credits completed already and allow me to finish in a year, but that school in in another city, and I am now married with a spouse and child whom I cannot just ask to relocate.
To sum up, I am past 40 and I have nearly ten years' experience as a trained professional in an administrative role with ten years hands-on fieldwork before that, but I am less qualified, it seems, than any 22-year-old looking for an entry-level job.
So what do I tell potential employers? I am not inclined to lie and say I have a completed degree (that said, I do not know what writing a final in third year medieval European history will allow me to offer to employers that I do not now). I really do not want to roll out the psychodrama of being physically abused as a child and as a teenager to every random HR person I sit down with. Is there a way to handle this that I am not seeing?
After high school I went straight into college. I was living at home still, as my school was in my home town. My parents were divorced when I was young. The parent I was living with was a moderately high-functioning alcoholic (who has since sought treatment and has been sober for more than a decade), but in those days there was physical abuse, which got worse with passing years. During my final year of school, things became so bad I had to drop out partway through the year; I moved out to avoid the beatings, and had to take a job to support myself. Moving in with the other parent wasn't an option, btw -- other parent was living in a different city in a bungalow with growing family #2.
I was ignorant in the ways of the registrar's office, and didn't actually tell the school I was withdrawing but just stopped going to class, so marks went from honors student to zero. I wrote the year off. For what it's worth I had a well-paying summer job and paid my tuition and books on my own with no help from my parents. I figured once things settled down with me I would repeat the year.
To my chagrin, when I went back to the registrar's office some months later to re-enroll, I was told I could not as I had walked out already. The exact words used were, "Why should we give you another kick at the can when there are other people who have not failed out before trying to get in?" My answers were not convincing enough, it seems.
I went forth into the working world and made my way with mostly satisfactory jobs. Within a few years I found my way into a career. The place I have worked for more than a decade is wrapping up operations and I will shortly be out of a job, and there is no obvious competitor to go across the street to... it is a small industry, dominated by one company in this country. The company is desperately struggling, and by the time I leave it will have laid off 80% of it workforce. One of the people bought out before me reckons it will be gone in two years.
Everything remotely comparable to my job that I have looked at requires a degree. My last (current) job technically did as well, but the guy who hired me had worked with me at another workplace -- which I had started at in an entry-level post -- and thought highly enough of my abilities to waive the requirement. He has now retired and it will be a blank slate wherever I look next.
My resume lists the years I was in university but does not mention a degree. I have considered going back to school, but when last I did the school I applied to said, "Your credits are all from out of state and more than ten years old, so we cannot give you any credit for those."
It is possible my old school would honor my credits completed already and allow me to finish in a year, but that school in in another city, and I am now married with a spouse and child whom I cannot just ask to relocate.
To sum up, I am past 40 and I have nearly ten years' experience as a trained professional in an administrative role with ten years hands-on fieldwork before that, but I am less qualified, it seems, than any 22-year-old looking for an entry-level job.
So what do I tell potential employers? I am not inclined to lie and say I have a completed degree (that said, I do not know what writing a final in third year medieval European history will allow me to offer to employers that I do not now). I really do not want to roll out the psychodrama of being physically abused as a child and as a teenager to every random HR person I sit down with. Is there a way to handle this that I am not seeing?
You don't have to explain the entire story. You're not under oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You just need a good, quick answer that you can calmly deliver. You should be honest, but reserved. Something like:
- I left college for financial reasons, and the longer I worked the more I preferred the professional world over school.
- I wanted to gain real-world experience and then after working on ABC exciting project it didn't seem so important to finish my degree.
- College wasn't for me. I have extensive professional experience in XYZ that is more important than a piece of paper.
Then change the subject to your professional qualifications.
posted by medusa at 2:52 PM on November 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
- I left college for financial reasons, and the longer I worked the more I preferred the professional world over school.
- I wanted to gain real-world experience and then after working on ABC exciting project it didn't seem so important to finish my degree.
- College wasn't for me. I have extensive professional experience in XYZ that is more important than a piece of paper.
Then change the subject to your professional qualifications.
posted by medusa at 2:52 PM on November 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
I wouldn't lie about it, but you can say any number of vague things to an interviewer to indicate that you wanted to continue your studies but couldn't due to forces beyond your control:
-It was no longer financially feasible for me to continue my studies
-I had to leave school to help with a family health issue
-I had to leave school and get a job to help support my family ("your family" in this case being yourself)
-There was a family health crisis and I had to take some time off to deal/help with that
-My parent developed a health problem so I left school and took a job to help with expenses
You can spin this further to support your hireability - it shows you're a team player, who is willing to make hard decisions to get things done for the good of the team even if it's not the absolute best thing for you personally.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:53 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
-It was no longer financially feasible for me to continue my studies
-I had to leave school to help with a family health issue
-I had to leave school and get a job to help support my family ("your family" in this case being yourself)
-There was a family health crisis and I had to take some time off to deal/help with that
-My parent developed a health problem so I left school and took a job to help with expenses
You can spin this further to support your hireability - it shows you're a team player, who is willing to make hard decisions to get things done for the good of the team even if it's not the absolute best thing for you personally.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:53 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have considered going back to school, but when last I did the school I applied to said, "Your credits are all from out of state and more than ten years old, so we cannot give you any credit for those."
Thomas Edison State College is a real NJ state college. They make no distinction between degrees earned on campus and degrees earned online. They will take your old credits and may also give you professional experience credit towards a related degree.
Having said that, almost all job vacancy qualification descriptions are wish lists. You absolutely should apply for jobs where you have the skills and experience, and not be put off by lacking a degree.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:22 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Thomas Edison State College is a real NJ state college. They make no distinction between degrees earned on campus and degrees earned online. They will take your old credits and may also give you professional experience credit towards a related degree.
Having said that, almost all job vacancy qualification descriptions are wish lists. You absolutely should apply for jobs where you have the skills and experience, and not be put off by lacking a degree.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:22 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would just say that you had to drop out for reasons of personal safety and leave it at that. The parent and registrar behavior was abhorrent, but for better or worse they're not relevant for a job application this far down the road.
Definitely do not be dissuaded if job listings say they require a degree; mostly they are trying to filter. And you are mainly using your network, rather than filing random listings, right? Because most jobs come from contacts, and it's through contacts that you will find people willing to overlook your unfortunate, and involuntary withdrawal from school. I, personally, wouldn't find it unethical to just list the dates that you completed and the GPA for that period, if it's really honors level, but my guess is opinions will vary and this far out you probably don't want to list GPA anyway.
posted by wnissen at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2015
Definitely do not be dissuaded if job listings say they require a degree; mostly they are trying to filter. And you are mainly using your network, rather than filing random listings, right? Because most jobs come from contacts, and it's through contacts that you will find people willing to overlook your unfortunate, and involuntary withdrawal from school. I, personally, wouldn't find it unethical to just list the dates that you completed and the GPA for that period, if it's really honors level, but my guess is opinions will vary and this far out you probably don't want to list GPA anyway.
posted by wnissen at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2015
To sum up, I am past 40 and I have nearly ten years' experience as a trained professional in an administrative role with ten years hands-on fieldwork before that, but I am less qualified, it seems, than any 22-year-old looking for an entry-level job.
Large employers, I think, you're kind of out of luck as far as making a good explanation of this. Small businesses, though, in my experience? When you're not a kid, and you're talking to someone about a job who is him- or herself over 40? Well, in this day and age, people are getting more and more familiar with the idea that family obligations are a thing. Where possible, look for jobs with places that don't have HR, look for jobs where you're going to sit down with a real human being who doesn't have a pat script for all this stuff and tell them, "I wasn't able to complete my degree because of a parent's health issues in my final year, which I regret, but here's all the great things I've done since then" and then re-focus onto your real accomplishments. A parent developed health problems. Virtually everybody past 40 these days is well aware that this is a thing that happens with parents, and to some people's parents younger than others, and that this can be incredibly disruptive. They are also aware that there isn't much difference between "some college and 10+ years of experience" and "finished college and 10+ years of experience", though there is a difference between either of those and no college at all. You don't need to tell them all the gory details.
If you're in the US, state universities tend to have some of the most liberal standards for admitting credits from elsewhere, and you might find that you could finish with less trouble than you think. But at this stage, good references will go further, so take a few deep breaths and then apply for all the things that say they need a degree. It probably couldn't hurt to say that you're looking into completing it now, which is the truth, even if you don't end up doing so. But avoid big corporations that are just trying to check boxes. You aren't a good fit for those jobs and you can't convince them you are because they don't care.
posted by Sequence at 3:33 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Large employers, I think, you're kind of out of luck as far as making a good explanation of this. Small businesses, though, in my experience? When you're not a kid, and you're talking to someone about a job who is him- or herself over 40? Well, in this day and age, people are getting more and more familiar with the idea that family obligations are a thing. Where possible, look for jobs with places that don't have HR, look for jobs where you're going to sit down with a real human being who doesn't have a pat script for all this stuff and tell them, "I wasn't able to complete my degree because of a parent's health issues in my final year, which I regret, but here's all the great things I've done since then" and then re-focus onto your real accomplishments. A parent developed health problems. Virtually everybody past 40 these days is well aware that this is a thing that happens with parents, and to some people's parents younger than others, and that this can be incredibly disruptive. They are also aware that there isn't much difference between "some college and 10+ years of experience" and "finished college and 10+ years of experience", though there is a difference between either of those and no college at all. You don't need to tell them all the gory details.
If you're in the US, state universities tend to have some of the most liberal standards for admitting credits from elsewhere, and you might find that you could finish with less trouble than you think. But at this stage, good references will go further, so take a few deep breaths and then apply for all the things that say they need a degree. It probably couldn't hurt to say that you're looking into completing it now, which is the truth, even if you don't end up doing so. But avoid big corporations that are just trying to check boxes. You aren't a good fit for those jobs and you can't convince them you are because they don't care.
posted by Sequence at 3:33 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
"I wasn't able to finish my degrees due to some family priorities. When the time finally came to return to school, I found I enjoyed the working world more and wasn't sure what one more year of studies would really add."
FWIW, I work for a large global brand and we explicitly do not require degrees for candidates and would rather see real world experience than a piece of paper. My industry is not your industry, but employers like us do exist. So don't give up hope!
posted by frumiousb at 3:41 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
FWIW, I work for a large global brand and we explicitly do not require degrees for candidates and would rather see real world experience than a piece of paper. My industry is not your industry, but employers like us do exist. So don't give up hope!
posted by frumiousb at 3:41 PM on November 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
If you are a woman, avoid explanations that use the words family or safety. "I was unable to finish my degree due to finances" is fine if you are asked to give a reason but do not volunteer one.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:55 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 3:55 PM on November 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Good advice about deflection, but (not to argue with another answerer), don't talk about how unimportant a degree is. Odds are that the person you're interviewing with has one and thinks it's at least slightly relevant. Just emphasize your experience.
posted by Etrigan at 4:25 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:25 PM on November 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Seconding what Sequence said... many large employers have a 4-year-degree as an unavoidable requirement for many job titles, but applying to places with more flexibility helps.
(That said, two good friends of mine ended up going back to school, at age 37 and 45 respectively, because they couldn't get the work they wanted despite great experience. Credentialism is dumb but sometimes inescapable. Look into other credit transferring possibilities. My 37-year-old friend ended up being able to transfer nearly all of his 2-year engineering degree credits to a 4-year business degree.)
posted by metasarah at 4:55 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
(That said, two good friends of mine ended up going back to school, at age 37 and 45 respectively, because they couldn't get the work they wanted despite great experience. Credentialism is dumb but sometimes inescapable. Look into other credit transferring possibilities. My 37-year-old friend ended up being able to transfer nearly all of his 2-year engineering degree credits to a 4-year business degree.)
posted by metasarah at 4:55 PM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
The answers you have gotten about how to deal with questions about your incomplete degree are good, but also, I don't think you need to worry about HR questions too much--There are WAY more people out there with "nearly complete" degrees than you would expect, for all sorts of reasons. (In Wisconsin we elected one as governor, and for a while he even thought he might be the president). You won't be the first person most HR departments have run into in this situation.
Also, if you do decide you want to pursue finishing the degree, here is how students I have worked with have found the most success: Start with your original college (if they have a non-traditional or adult education office, that's where I would start, but otherwise start with academic advising in the school or department your degree was in) tell them your situation and ask them what requirements you would need to fulfill to graduate. Then work with them to find either online courses or courses at a school closer to you that you can take and transfer in to your original school. Once all of your credits are transferred in, your original college can "graduate" you. The first call to your original college will likely be a pain since someone will probably have to do some digging to figure out what requirements you need to graduate after all this time, but lots of colleges are SUPER eager to work with people in your situation-you finishing is good for their graduation statistics.
posted by mjcon at 9:13 PM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, if you do decide you want to pursue finishing the degree, here is how students I have worked with have found the most success: Start with your original college (if they have a non-traditional or adult education office, that's where I would start, but otherwise start with academic advising in the school or department your degree was in) tell them your situation and ask them what requirements you would need to fulfill to graduate. Then work with them to find either online courses or courses at a school closer to you that you can take and transfer in to your original school. Once all of your credits are transferred in, your original college can "graduate" you. The first call to your original college will likely be a pain since someone will probably have to do some digging to figure out what requirements you need to graduate after all this time, but lots of colleges are SUPER eager to work with people in your situation-you finishing is good for their graduation statistics.
posted by mjcon at 9:13 PM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Don't explain. Keep your resume as it is. Only mention that you didn't finish the degree if asked directly. Don't mention abuse, health problems, or anything, there's no point. At some jobs it will be a dealbreaker... But there are many fish in the sea, it will be fine.
posted by miyabo at 10:24 PM on November 5, 2015
posted by miyabo at 10:24 PM on November 5, 2015
I really do not want to roll out the psychodrama of being physically abused as a child and as a teenager to every random HR person I sit down with.
The fact that you're even thinking of doing that is worrisome. In a million years, you would never discuss information that personal to HR people or in any type of interview situation. Not only does it have absolutely no relevance to your ability to do the job, but it's an extreme overshare that would have HR people scratch you off their candidate list.
posted by kinetic at 5:00 AM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
The fact that you're even thinking of doing that is worrisome. In a million years, you would never discuss information that personal to HR people or in any type of interview situation. Not only does it have absolutely no relevance to your ability to do the job, but it's an extreme overshare that would have HR people scratch you off their candidate list.
posted by kinetic at 5:00 AM on November 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
In similar circumstance, a relative applied to a (less competitive) school than his original credits came from; he was able to transfer all the credits above a certain grade. iirc the A-C transferred. At that time he obtained an engineering degree with a high GPA. He did this while working at a relatively well paying part-time job.
I don't know if the less competitive vs. more had anything to do with it; iirc it was simply the 2nd university's policy. Worth looking into. Best of luck!
posted by Twist at 5:20 AM on November 6, 2015
I don't know if the less competitive vs. more had anything to do with it; iirc it was simply the 2nd university's policy. Worth looking into. Best of luck!
posted by Twist at 5:20 AM on November 6, 2015
So what do I tell potential employers?
"I do not have a college degree." You get basically one more sentence after that, if someone asks you to explain. "I went to work instead," or "I had family obligations," or something short that has nothing to do with any of the things you mentioned above.
I also do not have a college degree and I'm technically a college professor now, so I'm here to tell you that things will be fine, and that you should not let this be a chip on your shoulder or a thing you wallow in or a thing you discuss in professional settings.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 7:27 AM on November 6, 2015
"I do not have a college degree." You get basically one more sentence after that, if someone asks you to explain. "I went to work instead," or "I had family obligations," or something short that has nothing to do with any of the things you mentioned above.
I also do not have a college degree and I'm technically a college professor now, so I'm here to tell you that things will be fine, and that you should not let this be a chip on your shoulder or a thing you wallow in or a thing you discuss in professional settings.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 7:27 AM on November 6, 2015
There is no reason you would ever, ever, in a million years, in any situation, ever share the story you've told here in the context of a job interview.
You can either not mention college on your resume, or put something like "attended U of X 1995-1997." I'd probably do the latter. If it ever comes up in an interview you just say "I did the first three years, loved it, did really well, but then I had to get a job to support my family, and I've been in the workforce since then."
They don't really care about your college degree except as a fulfillment of a minimum job requirement that someone drafted and they're looking for a reason to find an exception to. If they ask, it is because they think you're a good enough candidate that they would like to waive the degree requirement, but they want to be sure you didn't, like, flunk out because you hate reading or something.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:17 PM on November 7, 2015
You can either not mention college on your resume, or put something like "attended U of X 1995-1997." I'd probably do the latter. If it ever comes up in an interview you just say "I did the first three years, loved it, did really well, but then I had to get a job to support my family, and I've been in the workforce since then."
They don't really care about your college degree except as a fulfillment of a minimum job requirement that someone drafted and they're looking for a reason to find an exception to. If they ask, it is because they think you're a good enough candidate that they would like to waive the degree requirement, but they want to be sure you didn't, like, flunk out because you hate reading or something.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:17 PM on November 7, 2015
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One thought about this: every college & university has its own policy concerning transfer credits, and just because University of A didn't allow the transfer credits doesn't necessarily mean that B College won't allow them either. It's probably worth asking around at multiple nearby institutions and seeing what they say about your situation. Look in particular for places that try to serve "non-traditional students", which is the category you would fall into.
posted by Johnny Assay at 2:47 PM on November 5, 2015 [11 favorites]