How to deal with having a colleague become your boss?
October 29, 2015 1:44 PM Subscribe
My former colleague got promoted to become my boss, and isn't happy with me having discussions with my old boss (who new boss reports to). This is despite old boss saying I will always have access to him, as this situation isn't what I signed up for. What do I do?
I joined a flat organization less than a year ago, where I was working alongside a few people who were much more experienced than I am. As the organization was so flat, we all reported to the same person – let’s call them A. A was reputed to be a very fair, tremendously experienced boss and a great mentor (worked there 15 years), and I loved reporting to them.
One my colleagues, let’s call them B (there for 4 years, but experienced also), I had worked with very briefly before, and was not that impressed with his him, so I was happy to work alongside him but report to A. I’m early in my career and enjoyed that this role allowed me to work with very smart, experienced people.
Nine months later, with our department experiencing a huge workload increase, B got promoted and I, along with a couple new hires, have been assigned to report to B.
At the time, A acknowledged that this wasn’t what I signed up for, but that his door would always be open, and that B is very experienced, has had direct reports before, and is very qualified and smart. I was disappointed, but it’s a great organization with great opportunity, so leaving wasn’t a thought.
Over the last little while, I haven’t been meeting with A as I used to, and in fact haven’t been having the kind of conversations I used to have with him with anyone. B is often not available, does not have the same experience and political savviness as A, and is simply not as good a manager or mentor.
Today, I had a short chat with A, and explained I was a little confused, because I wanted to talk to him a little bit about projects in a broad sense, and also other general things that are happening in our industry. They acknowledged that there could be some confusion, but assured me I could talk to him when I needed, and that we don’t want to have an environment that was too formal. They said that when this all started out, they told me I’d always have access to them, and that hasn’t changed.
I then had a short meeting with B later on, and at the end mentioned that I had a chat with A, and that I would just like let him know. I could tell immediately that he did not like that. I explained I didn’t discuss project details, as of course I report to him (B), but I would chat with B to about broader discussions, industry issues, interactions in meetings I might have attended, etc. I said I wanted to let them know because this time was a little confusing, but I don’t want them to get the wrong impression.
He said he had something similar happen to him before, and his direct report would skip him directly go to above his head, and that it ended up being a very unpleasant situation, and he wants to avoid that. With the couple new people, it would also look bad that I would have conversations with A. He just didn’t seem to think it was appropriate at all of me to discuss issues with A, and I got the impression that he just wanted me to not do that again.
It left me very confused and disappointed. For the first time I’ve been seriously thinking of what is my plan here, and when am I going to leave. B also said that the plan in the organization was for him to replace A when A retires. I can’t imagine working here with A gone and B replacing him.
Does anyone have advice?
I joined a flat organization less than a year ago, where I was working alongside a few people who were much more experienced than I am. As the organization was so flat, we all reported to the same person – let’s call them A. A was reputed to be a very fair, tremendously experienced boss and a great mentor (worked there 15 years), and I loved reporting to them.
One my colleagues, let’s call them B (there for 4 years, but experienced also), I had worked with very briefly before, and was not that impressed with his him, so I was happy to work alongside him but report to A. I’m early in my career and enjoyed that this role allowed me to work with very smart, experienced people.
Nine months later, with our department experiencing a huge workload increase, B got promoted and I, along with a couple new hires, have been assigned to report to B.
At the time, A acknowledged that this wasn’t what I signed up for, but that his door would always be open, and that B is very experienced, has had direct reports before, and is very qualified and smart. I was disappointed, but it’s a great organization with great opportunity, so leaving wasn’t a thought.
Over the last little while, I haven’t been meeting with A as I used to, and in fact haven’t been having the kind of conversations I used to have with him with anyone. B is often not available, does not have the same experience and political savviness as A, and is simply not as good a manager or mentor.
Today, I had a short chat with A, and explained I was a little confused, because I wanted to talk to him a little bit about projects in a broad sense, and also other general things that are happening in our industry. They acknowledged that there could be some confusion, but assured me I could talk to him when I needed, and that we don’t want to have an environment that was too formal. They said that when this all started out, they told me I’d always have access to them, and that hasn’t changed.
I then had a short meeting with B later on, and at the end mentioned that I had a chat with A, and that I would just like let him know. I could tell immediately that he did not like that. I explained I didn’t discuss project details, as of course I report to him (B), but I would chat with B to about broader discussions, industry issues, interactions in meetings I might have attended, etc. I said I wanted to let them know because this time was a little confusing, but I don’t want them to get the wrong impression.
He said he had something similar happen to him before, and his direct report would skip him directly go to above his head, and that it ended up being a very unpleasant situation, and he wants to avoid that. With the couple new people, it would also look bad that I would have conversations with A. He just didn’t seem to think it was appropriate at all of me to discuss issues with A, and I got the impression that he just wanted me to not do that again.
It left me very confused and disappointed. For the first time I’ve been seriously thinking of what is my plan here, and when am I going to leave. B also said that the plan in the organization was for him to replace A when A retires. I can’t imagine working here with A gone and B replacing him.
Does anyone have advice?
I'm trying to figure out where this is coming from.
It sounds like you are going to A because you preferred reporting to A. If that's the case I get why B would be uncomfortable with your meeting with A, I think actually voicing displeasure at the meetings isn't the best way of addressing that but that's not really here or there.
And it really sounds like you just aren't comfortable reporting to B. Which is fine, but the facts are you now report to B and there isn't really going to be a way to change that without changing your job in some way. Whether or not A retires, that doesn't change that you now work with B and B is now who you deal with.
You seem really out of sorts at this reorg, but that's what happens, especially as companies grow. B may seem like a less good leader or whatever, but that's something you need to work out with B. And maybe I would focus on growing that relationship instead of going to A, especially if it really seems to bother B.
posted by KernalM at 1:59 PM on October 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
It sounds like you are going to A because you preferred reporting to A. If that's the case I get why B would be uncomfortable with your meeting with A, I think actually voicing displeasure at the meetings isn't the best way of addressing that but that's not really here or there.
And it really sounds like you just aren't comfortable reporting to B. Which is fine, but the facts are you now report to B and there isn't really going to be a way to change that without changing your job in some way. Whether or not A retires, that doesn't change that you now work with B and B is now who you deal with.
You seem really out of sorts at this reorg, but that's what happens, especially as companies grow. B may seem like a less good leader or whatever, but that's something you need to work out with B. And maybe I would focus on growing that relationship instead of going to A, especially if it really seems to bother B.
posted by KernalM at 1:59 PM on October 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
I give B a lot of credit for being honest and direct with you. The truth is, you do not respect B and what you are doing illustrates that. Given that B is being groomed for A's spot, I'd get on B's bandwagon or look for another job. If you keep going around B to discuss business with A- you will look bad.
posted by TenaciousB at 2:03 PM on October 29, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by TenaciousB at 2:03 PM on October 29, 2015 [18 favorites]
I've been in this situation before, as have many people (I presume). I've left positions because of similar situations, but I've also (gradually) learned to respect and appreciate B in my current work.
Since A has maintained an open door policy, you may be well served by simply passing on word to A one last time about the state of affairs--B doesn't want me talking to you despite the terms of my hire--and it would be great if A could write a recommendation for you (and maybe serve as a point of contact in the future, either when A has retired or when you've left the organization).
In any case, even if you find a new job in the same field, you don't want B having a misconception about you that he can spread through your industry. You really do need to abide by your boss' stated needs while he's your boss.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:12 PM on October 29, 2015
Since A has maintained an open door policy, you may be well served by simply passing on word to A one last time about the state of affairs--B doesn't want me talking to you despite the terms of my hire--and it would be great if A could write a recommendation for you (and maybe serve as a point of contact in the future, either when A has retired or when you've left the organization).
In any case, even if you find a new job in the same field, you don't want B having a misconception about you that he can spread through your industry. You really do need to abide by your boss' stated needs while he's your boss.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:12 PM on October 29, 2015
He said he had something similar happen to him before, and his direct report would skip him directly go to above his head, and that it ended up being a very unpleasant situation, and he wants to avoid that.
B isn't wrong about this. This causes organizational chaos in many situations, and it can really undermine B if you start to play A off against them. Not to say you would, but that's a huge risk for B (and A ultimately).
I'd fully commit to working for B, who doesn't seem that bad, really. Props for being open with you, for example. B is your boss now. You only other option is to vote with your feet. Not suggesting that, just laying out your options here.
But that doesn't mean you can never talk to A again. A standard organizational way to still get access to A is to ask about a mentoring relationship. That gives B a formal out and makes reporting clear. A less formal option is to ask A if they would be up for an occasional working lunch, or a group staff meeting to chat and give perspectives to the whole team. The point is to make it part of the organization culture, not to appear that you're sneaking around B's back---that's corrosive, even if it's well intentioned.
posted by bonehead at 2:14 PM on October 29, 2015 [19 favorites]
B isn't wrong about this. This causes organizational chaos in many situations, and it can really undermine B if you start to play A off against them. Not to say you would, but that's a huge risk for B (and A ultimately).
I'd fully commit to working for B, who doesn't seem that bad, really. Props for being open with you, for example. B is your boss now. You only other option is to vote with your feet. Not suggesting that, just laying out your options here.
But that doesn't mean you can never talk to A again. A standard organizational way to still get access to A is to ask about a mentoring relationship. That gives B a formal out and makes reporting clear. A less formal option is to ask A if they would be up for an occasional working lunch, or a group staff meeting to chat and give perspectives to the whole team. The point is to make it part of the organization culture, not to appear that you're sneaking around B's back---that's corrosive, even if it's well intentioned.
posted by bonehead at 2:14 PM on October 29, 2015 [19 favorites]
From experience, this is a bad situation and you're exacerbating it by giving the impression that you're going around B to get to A. If you want to make this position work, you need to fully commit to reporting to B and to finding ways to improve communication between the two of you. Otherwise, you should look elsewhere.
posted by Lexica at 2:19 PM on October 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 2:19 PM on October 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you have some confusion about the roles that B and A could and should have in your life.
B is your manager now and you have to respect that relationship. One important thing you can do to ensure that you have a healthy relationship with your manager is to schedule regular, one-on-one check-ins with your manager. That doesn't sound like it's happening now, but it should. Here's where you need to manage up and request that time. It could be weekly, bi-weekly, or even monthly, whatever works. That check-in time should be used to discuss progress towards goals, troubleshoot projects, address any issues that are coming up, answer questions, and make sure you are all on the same page. Many of the things you want to talk to A about are really topics you should discuss first with your manager, B - what you're learning in meetings, project related information.
If you have these regular meetings with B, then I think it would be perfectly appropriate for you to occasionally meet up with A for coffee or lunch to talk about career advice, solicit input on a project, or the latest episode of The Leftovers. But A is not the person who should be directing your work; that's now B's job.
Honestly, your behavior (from what you've shared) comes across as potentially disrespectful and undermining of B.
It's also not clear if your organization has regular staff meetings. That would be another forum to bring up some of your questions and get feedback from A, B, and your other colleagues. If you aren't currently having regular staff or team meetings, then you should suggest that. Or if you are having those meetings, but the agenda isn't relevant, then you could suggest changes to the agenda.
posted by brookeb at 2:20 PM on October 29, 2015 [14 favorites]
B is your manager now and you have to respect that relationship. One important thing you can do to ensure that you have a healthy relationship with your manager is to schedule regular, one-on-one check-ins with your manager. That doesn't sound like it's happening now, but it should. Here's where you need to manage up and request that time. It could be weekly, bi-weekly, or even monthly, whatever works. That check-in time should be used to discuss progress towards goals, troubleshoot projects, address any issues that are coming up, answer questions, and make sure you are all on the same page. Many of the things you want to talk to A about are really topics you should discuss first with your manager, B - what you're learning in meetings, project related information.
If you have these regular meetings with B, then I think it would be perfectly appropriate for you to occasionally meet up with A for coffee or lunch to talk about career advice, solicit input on a project, or the latest episode of The Leftovers. But A is not the person who should be directing your work; that's now B's job.
Honestly, your behavior (from what you've shared) comes across as potentially disrespectful and undermining of B.
It's also not clear if your organization has regular staff meetings. That would be another forum to bring up some of your questions and get feedback from A, B, and your other colleagues. If you aren't currently having regular staff or team meetings, then you should suggest that. Or if you are having those meetings, but the agenda isn't relevant, then you could suggest changes to the agenda.
posted by brookeb at 2:20 PM on October 29, 2015 [14 favorites]
Another way to think of this is organizationally. A has specifically assigned B to be your manager, because A has other priorities. That doesn't mean you can't occasionally access A in a mentoring role but this move is specifically about you going to B for managerial support.
I know it's hard but I would drop the idea that you are entitled to "what you signed up for" when it comes to staffing. People come and go and switch roles all the time. Your job is to get your work done and build a career.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:46 PM on October 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
I know it's hard but I would drop the idea that you are entitled to "what you signed up for" when it comes to staffing. People come and go and switch roles all the time. Your job is to get your work done and build a career.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:46 PM on October 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
yet another way to think of this is that it's in your interest to train B to be a better boss. this means tactfully guiding them to better meet your needs.
posted by andrewcooke at 2:49 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by andrewcooke at 2:49 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
And yet another way of looking at it is from the perspective of A. If B is being groomed to fill A's spot, then obviously A sees something in B that makes B worth that kind of mentoring as well as the promotion, which had to occur with A's recommendation. If A truly has the great experience, political savvy, and great mentorship capabilities that you've given them, then B's promotion should reflect that. Not only are you being disrespectful to B here, you're also being disrespectful towards A and their management decisions.
Your dislike of B and B's promotion is "poisoning the well" before you've even had a chance to drink the water. You're also being negative about the growth in your company causing increased work loads, promotions, and new hires for that growth - which in most places is considered a great thing. I would gently suggest an attitude change before you try anything else. Business atmospheres change frequently. Being adaptable and practicing some flexibility is a great tool to have in your personal toolbox, career wise - this is a great opportunity for you to practice that by changing your attitude towards B and the situation by attempting to give B a chance and look for what A sees in B. Also remember that of course B is not going to be the mentor and manager A is right out of the gate - but A probably wasn't either. Making a focused effort to observe what A sees in B and how B changes through mentorship is also a good opportunity for you to have control of your own education, which can be invaluable.
posted by barchan at 3:14 PM on October 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
Your dislike of B and B's promotion is "poisoning the well" before you've even had a chance to drink the water. You're also being negative about the growth in your company causing increased work loads, promotions, and new hires for that growth - which in most places is considered a great thing. I would gently suggest an attitude change before you try anything else. Business atmospheres change frequently. Being adaptable and practicing some flexibility is a great tool to have in your personal toolbox, career wise - this is a great opportunity for you to practice that by changing your attitude towards B and the situation by attempting to give B a chance and look for what A sees in B. Also remember that of course B is not going to be the mentor and manager A is right out of the gate - but A probably wasn't either. Making a focused effort to observe what A sees in B and how B changes through mentorship is also a good opportunity for you to have control of your own education, which can be invaluable.
posted by barchan at 3:14 PM on October 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
You signed up for a job with a company that has a power structure which has changed.
Stay in touch with A off channel because life is long, figure out what B wants and meet those expectations well while looking for another job. Seconding Oyéah's advice to never mention A to B again. If you get confused, remember who will conduct your performance reviews. I ended up working for a colleague who became my manager at my previous job - it's really hard, I feel your pain, but play it close to the chest until you're ready to jump.
posted by OrderOctopoda at 4:44 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Stay in touch with A off channel because life is long, figure out what B wants and meet those expectations well while looking for another job. Seconding Oyéah's advice to never mention A to B again. If you get confused, remember who will conduct your performance reviews. I ended up working for a colleague who became my manager at my previous job - it's really hard, I feel your pain, but play it close to the chest until you're ready to jump.
posted by OrderOctopoda at 4:44 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have 1:1 meetings with B, preferably weekly. Have skip 1:1 meetings with A, maybe monthly or quarterly. Putting it on the calendar and making it routine should make it less scary. The frequency is important: you must talk with B far more often than you talk with A.
posted by crazycanuck at 6:28 PM on October 29, 2015
posted by crazycanuck at 6:28 PM on October 29, 2015
I'm not sure why talking to A is such a big deal. Don't bring it up randomly to B. I've had a relationship with my boss's boss at every job I've had. Did you paint it to B as you going around B to deal with A? Otherwise I think it's great to maintain healthy chatter with A and do team and weekly meetings with B. Try to be respectful to B. B is your boss. If you determine later you hate working for B, reassess. It sucks you miss A. Everything seems fine to me....
posted by Kalmya at 1:40 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by Kalmya at 1:40 PM on October 30, 2015
Also, having a great mentor is industry is very, very rare in my experience. Having a boss that isn't driving you nuts, is good. The grass is not always greener at another job. Many bosses are horrible.
posted by Kalmya at 1:50 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by Kalmya at 1:50 PM on October 30, 2015
Talking to him socially isn't, but taking direction from him, or even the appearance of taking direction from him (e.g., discussing projects with him) is a big deal.
Honestly, the problem isn't taking directions from a director. If A seeks you out and tells you do to something without B in the loop, B shouldn't take issue with you about it. B may feel a bit upset with A for trumping them without consultation, but thats between the two of them.
What is a problem is when you approach A. B is concerned about several possible things:
1. Their lack of mentorship and management. Technically, A should be able to figure out that B is not setting up 1-on-1s and is still doing their old job post promotion, but messengers will be shot. Don't be that messenger.
2. Your relationship with A undermines their role power. If B makes a decision you disagree with, appealing your case to A is going to sour B's relationship with A, and consequently your relationship with B. If it turns out B has information they're prohibited from sharing with you, then this behavior can also sour your relationship with A. It's likely this is the form in which B was previously burned.
3. B was promoted to take over some duties and functions of A. Dealing with you is one of those functions that was delegated to B, and if you consume a lot of A's time, it reflects poorly on B's ability to receive that delegation.
4. Related to 1, it demonstrates B may not be able to retain you if A leaves.
So I advice you to limit your meetings with A to once a month or quarter, and try to get some recurring meetings with B set up. When you do talk to A, be discreet.
posted by pwnguin at 2:07 AM on October 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Honestly, the problem isn't taking directions from a director. If A seeks you out and tells you do to something without B in the loop, B shouldn't take issue with you about it. B may feel a bit upset with A for trumping them without consultation, but thats between the two of them.
What is a problem is when you approach A. B is concerned about several possible things:
1. Their lack of mentorship and management. Technically, A should be able to figure out that B is not setting up 1-on-1s and is still doing their old job post promotion, but messengers will be shot. Don't be that messenger.
2. Your relationship with A undermines their role power. If B makes a decision you disagree with, appealing your case to A is going to sour B's relationship with A, and consequently your relationship with B. If it turns out B has information they're prohibited from sharing with you, then this behavior can also sour your relationship with A. It's likely this is the form in which B was previously burned.
3. B was promoted to take over some duties and functions of A. Dealing with you is one of those functions that was delegated to B, and if you consume a lot of A's time, it reflects poorly on B's ability to receive that delegation.
4. Related to 1, it demonstrates B may not be able to retain you if A leaves.
So I advice you to limit your meetings with A to once a month or quarter, and try to get some recurring meetings with B set up. When you do talk to A, be discreet.
posted by pwnguin at 2:07 AM on October 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by Oyéah at 1:49 PM on October 29, 2015 [5 favorites]