Why can't men keep their hands to themselves?

December 9, 2005 7:10 PM

My ex wants me to come over and find out where we're at in our relationship. We were in a long distance relationship that ended a few months ago when I was intimate with another man (no sex, just so you know, but enough to make it cheating). When I told him, we swore we still loved eachother, but decided break up so we could have a chance to grow, and start again when we lived in the same city (likely spring '06). Since then I've found clarity, come to terms with the nearly unbearable guilt and done my best to change the part of me that went wrong. Come to find out he's been busy....very busy...with many women where he lives. I made a mistake, I know that....so it confounds me that he says he loves me but turns around and does all that stuff with all those girls? I'm very in love with this man, and I want to believe in him so badly, but I can't understand how he can hold such a double standard. Is it just too much to ask of a 24 year old, to actually live the lifestyle he expects of his partner? Is it a Man thing, that you have to get action? And, in light of all this, can I believe that he loves me or am I playing the fool.
posted by aquavit to human relations (66 comments total)

Are you saying that he's been active w/ these other women while you were broken up? How can you complain about that?
posted by xmutex at 7:13 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I don't get how you can complain about him sleeping with other girls while you were broken up. Duh.
posted by delmoi at 7:16 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

Do you want to get back together with him? Does he want to get back together with you?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:17 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

Because of the hope we both shared and the "I love you" bit.
posted by aquavit at 7:19 PM on December 9, 2005

ThePink: yes. and yes, only I don't know if I can if this is the kind of person he is. It's a principle conflict.
posted by aquavit at 7:20 PM on December 9, 2005

What principle? You guys were broken up. He didn't do anything wrong so far as I can tell. Are you sure you're not angry at yourself for cheating and projecting a little bit?
posted by Justinian at 7:26 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

What about him dating other girls while you were broken up bothers you?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:30 PM on December 9, 2005 [2 favorites]

What's the meaning of the term 'broken up' if he's not allowed to see other people?
posted by sid at 7:31 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

It's not a double standard if what you did was during the relationship, and what he's up to is after it. It might be showing you that he places a different significance on sex than you do, though.

How long were the two of you together before you broke it off? Is your problem with him having sex with other girls a feeling that he's throwing away intimacy that the two of you achieved, or do you think it's simply morally wrong of him to fool around with many women in the first place, or something else? Do you feel you're being taken adventage of because you're waiting for him during the hiatus while he's not waiting for you?

If it were me, I'd want to get out and explore too... but that's often easier said than done.

Also, if you want to get together with him again, I hope you've already talked about STD protection for you both while you're out having fun. 1/4(females) - 1/5(males) of the adult US population has genital herpes, let alone some of the other things out there.
posted by lorrer at 7:34 PM on December 9, 2005

Also - it's possible to be in love with someone and still have sex with other people. Doing that does not make him a bad person, or one that is unworthy of your love.
posted by sid at 7:37 PM on December 9, 2005

sid: In the phrase "see other people" nowhere does it mention seeing other people naked. Movies, holding hands, kissing even okay....other stuff I always thought was reserved for someone really special. Actually, with these few comments I think I'm getting the help I needed...so keep posting guys.
posted by aquavit at 7:41 PM on December 9, 2005

lorrer: (I didn't say he had sex either) We were together over a year...so yah, the throwing away of intimacy is my main concern...plus the STD's. It's pretty gross and pretty hurtful to me.
posted by aquavit at 7:46 PM on December 9, 2005

here's the issue:

you cheated on him, put him in a powerless position. he regains power by demonstrating that he is capable of doing what you can do, both to you (to prove that he isn't a sissy and a coward for going back with you) and to himself (to prove that the same). perhaps he's overcompensating, but that's that. if he isn't the type of person who would normally do something like that, i swear swear swear swear swear that's what's going on.

also, i can see how you get to say "but he said he loved me!," but i mean come on, you cheated on him. at least he wasn't being deceitful while bonded.
posted by soma lkzx at 7:51 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

In general women and men see sex differently. Women place more long term intimacy on the action while men place more immediate pleasure from it. (This is a generalization and, of course, there are exceptions both ways). There is a trite expression along the lines that "women give sex to get love, and men give love to get sex", I don't agree with it 100%, but I think it points towards something that does happen often.
His actions do not mean that if you where together he would cheat on you, rather that he perceived the situation you where in as a chance to seek sex elsewhere. Unless the two of you where very explicit on the matter of "no sex" with other people I don't see this as a matter of grave concern. I understand how you may feel, but, unfortunately, feelings are not always the best yardstick to measure what you should do.
If both of you want to get back together, go for it. If he (or you) cheat under those circumstances... well that is another bag of fish entirely.
posted by edgeways at 7:52 PM on December 9, 2005

I pretty much have to join the "if you were broken up" chorus.

But his motivation could've beeen bad, and only he can know that, and only you or people he confides in or makes it otherwise obvious to can know that. We cannot know that. So if it was to hurt you, or to get you out of his mind in some less than kind manner, then that's a whole new issue that needs addressing.

What I think I mean is, the potential for shady motivation is there and if your transgressions are already dealt with then it's a fucked up spot. It's hard not to feel like maybe you deserve some badness that comes your way, etc.

But without any knowledge of him or what's goin on, then yes, you guys were broken up, and as long as what "broken up" or "seeing other people" means wasn't made painfully clear, it was up to him to define it for himself. He cannot be expected to know and abide your definition.
posted by birdie birdington at 7:53 PM on December 9, 2005

aquavit, I'm sorry you're in this fix, and truly sympathize. I do understand the standards argument, and have definitely been in a "We're broken up" situation before where I still had an expectation that the other party would remain true in some fashion. I'm going to try to grab a few quotes from your original post and reply to them from my perspective.

Is it just too much to ask of a 24 year old, to actually live the lifestyle he expects of his partner? Is it a Man thing, that you have to get action?

I'd argue that it's more of a 24-year-old thing in general, rather than a man thing. It's a 24-year-old thing to date around, to tell someone you love them, but not act like you're in love with them, to use a significant other as an excuse to escape a relationship that wasn't quite right.

I don't believe it's possible to be both truly love with someone far away and getting around at home. If it is possible, those capable of doing it may not be the sort of people I'd want to date.

I was with someone in a long distance relationship who -- against my wishes -- dated, all the while telling me how much they loved me, and how they were just doing this and that thing that was unrelated to the strength of love they had for me. I eventually realized that if she truly did love me that much, it was not the sort of love I wanted in my life.

Since then I've found clarity, come to terms with the nearly unbearable guilt and done my best to change the part of me that went wrong.

I don't know you, other than this post, so I'm writing a bit of a story in my head to fill in the blanks. I will say, though, that it sounds like you've put yourself through a lot of punishment in order to make up for cheating. Sometimes cheating is a sign to everyone that things weren't meant to be -- not a sign that there is something wrong with us.

Maybe it means it's the wrong time, the wrong person, the wrong place... but it definitely doesn't point directly to there being something wrong with you -- especially when you're in your early 20's the whole world is open to you.

A lot of people look like soulmates when they're actually just good travel companions.
posted by VulcanMike at 7:59 PM on December 9, 2005

In the phrase "see other people" nowhere does it mention seeing other people naked. Movies, holding hands, kissing even okay....other stuff I always thought was reserved for someone really special.

Is this the absolute, explicit arrangement you stated with the gentleman in question? Because whether I've "broken up" with someone or whether we're "seeing other people," it is assumed that sex with other people is a possibility.

This isn't a "men can't keep their hands to themselves" issue, but a "your relationship had ended" issue.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 8:00 PM on December 9, 2005

to use a significant other cheating as an excuse
posted by VulcanMike at 8:00 PM on December 9, 2005

You're jealous, and your relationship is busted and never going to be fixed. Move on, it'll be better for you both.
posted by cellphone at 8:05 PM on December 9, 2005

Another question you should ask (and he should) is why should he take you back if you cheated on him? His activities were apparently after you two broke up, and to be bluntly honest, none of your business. But if you betrayed him, then he's got to have second and third thoughts about trusting you.
posted by geekhorde at 8:05 PM on December 9, 2005

Perhaps he thinks that if you really meant it when you said you loved him, that you would not have been emotionally unfaithful to him.

Once you break up, all bets are off. Love or not, being broken up is a ticket to find someone else. You can't just hide someone in the wings, waiting for when you feel like you want to love him again.

He could have just been hurt badly enough by what happened that he quit trying to find love, turning to sex instead as a way to numb things. Calling it a "Man thing" won't do any good. There's plenty of women who find partners for sex instead of love. Blaming men will just make you bitter and difficult to recover when you do move on.

Still, you have reason to be hesitant if he's been promiscuous lately. As well, it sounds like both sides have lost a lot of trust. Regardless of how honestly you love him, how guilty you felt, and how true your feelings are, it's up to him to trust that again, just as it's up to you to decide whether you can trust him again.

You two really just need to listen to yourselves and decide what's best. Oh, and have him take an STD test. It's not an anger thing, just for your own safety. I'd expect anyone worth your time to understand.
posted by Saydur at 8:12 PM on December 9, 2005

I think the issue here is how you each view sex. You see it as a deeply meaningful act that expresses emotional intimacy between two people who are in love. His view of healthy sex might be more expansive than yours. I think both are perfectly valid viewpoints. For the record, I would probably lean more towards your point of view than his, but I don't expect the same from my partners.

Or maybe he's not in love with you. But you need to recognize the possibility that he is still very much in love with you, but capable of having sex with other people at the same time - you are, after all, broken up.

I think you either need to figure out how he feels about you, by talking to him, and, ideally, spending some time with him. Then you need to figure out if the fundamental difference between your two points of view is an insurmountable obstacle. I get the feeling you're inexperienced in love. Maybe now is a good time to see other people yourself.

And yeah, STDs are definitely an issue, it is imperative that he gets tested before you do anything intimate with him again.
posted by sid at 8:14 PM on December 9, 2005

This sounds like the running story in Friends. "But we were on a break!"

In that show, Ross did share some blame - though not total - because they were supposed to be on a break - a vague status between dating and not.

From what has been written here, you two were/are actually broken up. Any discussion you have about love and the potential to get back together doesn't actually mean that you ARE back together. it means that at some time in the future, you both have expressed the desire to be exclusive. That says nothing about the moment, and if you are judging his behaviour based on an unspoken hope (that he'd start acting as if you were together when in fact you're not, then I think that's a really shitty thing to do.

If you want him to be your boyfriend again, then do that. And at that time, you will both presumably (based on the posts above, not what I suppose is necessarily best) be monogamous with each other at long distance. If you can't trust yourself to do that again, then don't, and don't judge him for not acting as if you're together when you're really NOT together.
posted by mikel at 8:20 PM on December 9, 2005

I guess I'm a little unclear on the meaning of "broken up" in this context. I thought "broken up" meant that former significant others no longer had any say in each other's love life? If there is still an expectation of monogamy how is that being "broken up"?

Or do the words broken up mean something different these days?

If it helps... and I suppose I wasn't explicit in my first response... for many people, particularly but by no means exclusively mean, sex and love can be quite easily seperated and there is nothing immoral about that. It also doesn't imply that such a person is any more likely to cheat.

(on preview: I see that "just break up, its over" brigade is arriving. Has there ever been a single relationship question that didn't involve cries of "give up"?)
posted by Justinian at 8:32 PM on December 9, 2005

I think "broken up" in this context means "he's really upset with me and I feel guilty and this is big problem and we're fighting and maybe our relationship is over so instead of screaming at each and someone storming out, we'll agree to sort of break up so that it doesn't hurt as bad and maybe we'll get right back together".

That's what I think, anyway. And that he slept with other women doesn't necessarily indicate he's not very interested in getting back together and being in love with you because, given the circumstances, he'd have a lot of emotional incentive to sort of feel out what he wants by dating and sleeping with some other women. And maybe he wants to be with you.

But maybe he doesn't. Not really. The problem as I see it is that you were obviously more committed to the non-breakup breakup than he was. And that should tell you something. However, nothing is predestined and if you're honest with each other about your real feelings, you might be able to work it out.

Finally, since we're generalizing a bit about men and women, I'd take your getting intimate with another man as a sign that you were seriously unhappy with the relationship. As a generalization, women will often cheat when they're unhappy in a relationship and feel neglected where, in contrast, men will cheat because they have a really strong desire to get laid by someone different. And from a comment you made in this thread, it sounds to me like you're looking for reasons to be permanently out of this relationship. Is it possible that the pain of seperation and the fear of lonliness may have caused you to "forget" the reasons that you were (proabably) unhappy and were intimate with another man?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:50 PM on December 9, 2005

Aquavit--Your emotions are confusing you into the error of false equivalence. He's got every right to see who he wants once you are broken up. That's what broken up means, unless there is a more detailed agreement. I'm guessing there wasn't because you didn't detail the rules of the breakup.

You have to understand that for him, what you did ended the relationship. He has to get on with his life.

That's not to say that what you had is gone, but that if you argue with him and blame him for something which, on first blush, seems to be exactly what I would do in his place, you aren't going to get him back. You have to not only apologize for your behavior, but accept that what he was doing was allowed because you were broken up. If you can't deal with that, you have to look into yourself and ask yourself why you can't handle it.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:58 PM on December 9, 2005

If you're in the relationship circle, you can complain.

If you're out of the relationship circle, he can have wild orgies and you don't have much ground to stand on.

If he's kind enough to forgive you for lying and cheating on him, while you were in the circle, you can manage to forgive him when you had no intimate relationship.
posted by filmgeek at 9:03 PM on December 9, 2005

but I can't understand how he can hold such a double standard

The funny thing is that you consider it a double standard at all, like you're now the victim. Please. You cheated on him. That puts you in the wrong. He screwed around after you "went on a break." That puts him in the clear.

So even after all of this, you're still the one who fucked up, not him. Accept this, and maybe you can grow a little. It's called reaping what you sow.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:01 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

I clicked in here because I am that guy that stops for train wrecks. I have not read any of the other posts. I went straight here. So with that out of the way... move on. it was only a couple of years out of your life.

Don't make it forever

'Till death do us part' still means something to me, and so should it you
posted by Botunda at 10:06 PM on December 9, 2005

Syd: Okay, so, if you're falling in love with me, then why are you with all these other women?
Dex: Oh, come on. Am I supposed to remain celibate while I bask in like the warm glow of your annihilating contempt?
- From 'The Tao of Steve'

***

You were broken up. You cheated on him (even with love, an act which could be considered 'annihilating contempt' by many). He's entitled to his flings, and you likely still have a ways to go to earn his trust back beyond forgiving him for his dalliances. It's not a double standard, it's a reality of the situation.
posted by evadery at 10:06 PM on December 9, 2005 [1 favorite]

One more guy here saying, he's allowed to do whatever he wants to do if the two of you aren't together. Even if you swore you loved each other. Even if your idea of "break up" means "not see each other for a while but get back together again in six months".

Is it just too much to ask of a 24 year old, to actually live the lifestyle he expects of his partner?

Not at all. But you're not his partner now, and he's not yours.

Two questions -- how did you come to find out that he'd been intimate with other women? And what makes you think STDs are an issue?

It sounds very much as if he's told you "I've slept with five women since we broke up" and you can't figure out why he'd say something that hurtful.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 10:16 PM on December 9, 2005

I hope your post title is a joke, since you were the one that couldn't keep their hands to themselves.
posted by puke & cry at 10:46 PM on December 9, 2005

As countless other people have said: you were broken up. It's not a double standard. He's not a hypocrite. The lifestyle he expects of his partner is that they don't cheat on him while they're together. He lived up to that, you didn't. He's not a mind reader. To say you've 'broken up' by default implies that he and you can do whatever you want with other people. You had a different definition of the term, but I think that most reasonable people would have sided with his definition. If you wanted your 'break' to have had different conditions, you should have brought them up at the time. For all of these reasons, it isn't fair of you to be angry at him

He hooked up with other girls. Is it possible for him to still love you? The answer is yes, it's possible. Not in a slim-chance "anything's possible" way either. I would even go so far as to say that it's likely he loves you. He apparently has no problem meeting people and hooking up with people, yet he says that as soon as you're back in town he wants to settle down and be with you and never be with another girl. He doesn't have to say that. So even if you find it abhorrent, he can still love you while being with other girls.

It seems like in general you've kept your own opinions and ideas about relationships (including how important they are to you... ie which ones are dealbreakers) hidden and yet expected him to live up to them.

Maybe you're in the camp that says "This is what I think about sex and relationships, I believe these are fundamental and self-evident views, and if he needs to be told then he's not someone I want to be in a relationship with". I won't judge that. If you are in that camp though, he's obviously failed the test and you should call it quits.

The other extreme is that your opinions don't matter, and he can do whatever he wants. Probably not all that healthy.

A pretty reasonable middle-ground is one where you make him aware of your views, so he can know what's important to you and then choose to act accordingly. Tell him "what you've been doing really bothers me. I didn't make it clear before, but this experience has taught me that I don't want to be completely broken up from you. I want us to have some time apart and grow, without bringing other people into the picture. I love you too much to bear the thought of you being with other people. This is really important to me, and I can't help but feel that it is essential to my idea of a healthy relationship, the kind of relationship I want for us." Find out what he thinks, what is important to him. If you feel comfortable, compromise in areas. But always ask yourself "can I be in a relationship where this is the standard?" If the answer is no, and neither of you will budge, you will have to face the extremely depressing fact that maybe the relationship is doomed.

Oh and by the way, it's important that he gets tested for STD's if he's exposed himself to any risk, but you're kidding yourself if you say that's the issue here.
posted by teem at 11:02 PM on December 9, 2005

You're pretty fucking lucky he even deigns to talk to you; I wouldn't have given you the time of day. You cheated on him. You were the one who opened the door to those other women he's been with. Once you cheat on someone, all future declarations of "we're on a break" don't hold, because he has no reason to trust you at all.

And you accuse him of having a double standard? Good lord. Do this guy a big favor and stay away from him.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:08 PM on December 9, 2005

There's several odd statements in here:

My ex wants me to come over and find out where we're at in our relationship.

What the hell does that mean? It implies that you two have kept in touch somehow, or that you're near him in some way and that getting back together is a possibility.

Or he's looking for a booty call.

Is it just too much to ask of a 24 year old, to actually live the lifestyle he expects of his partner?

What kind of lifestyle did he actually expect you to live up to?


But anyway, yes, it's understandable for ANYONE to get on dating/fucking spree after being cheated on by someone who loved them. Life is short, why spend in it moping, especially when you're young?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:33 PM on December 9, 2005

As much as I agree with the "what did you expect, you were broken up!" responses, I also know what you're going through, and it's no fun, and regardless of the rationality of each of your decisions, love binds you to irrational emotion.

I was in a 5yr relationship, and cheated on my partner at the two year mark (fwiw, the cheating was only one evening of makeout, but the emotional componant was significant). I don't think we ever regained the lost trust, and my emotional betrayal of him caused a lot of bitterness that manifested itself as bickering and a general lack of respect for me over the next three years. That's not to say it was all bad, or that all the badness came from my cheating alone, but that we were both young and emotionally wounded (I, irrationally, by his spiteful misery at what I'd done), and it made us push each other's buttons in cruel ways. If I'd had the emotional strength & self-confidence to realize this person wasn't perfect for me, or that our faults weren't my faults, or that he wasn't my life partner afterall, and left sooner, those three years would've been a lot more productive in terms of my emotional maturation.. When we finally did break up, it took both of us months to realize it wasn't just a "break," and even longer for me to stop thinking of him as my ideal companion, my sexual fantasy-material, that we'd eventually end up together again, etc. (Now, two years after the breakup & a year after finally realizing we weren't good for each other, I'm in a good, strong relationship, & continually surprised at how good this one seems in comparison.)

The caveat: that was also my first "serious" relationship (age 18-23), so I was approaching it from a much different standpoint than I would be now--in part my 'roving eye' was a lot stronger because I acutely felt in making that initial commitment I was giving up the freedom to experience dating other people (which I hadn't done much of in adolescence). Now, I'm wise enough (& have dated enough) to quell those thoughts & savor the relationship I'm in.

Apologies for the meandering rant! I hope whatever you decide is the best decision for your longterm happiness.
posted by soviet sleepover at 12:03 AM on December 10, 2005

Movies, holding hands, kissing even okay....other stuff I always thought was reserved for someone really special.

If people waited for "someone really special" they'd spend most of their lives not having sex, because most people aren't "really special" (yes, everyone is special in their own way, but not in that specific way).

But people do not spend most of their lives not having sex. Draw your own conclusions...
posted by kindall at 12:07 AM on December 10, 2005

Woman chiming in here. You guys were broken up. Unless you guys made an explicit, mutual promise not to sleep with anyone else in the interim, he didn't do anything wrong. Sure, you may be jealous, or threatened, or worried that he doesn't love you -- fine, you can own those feelings and deal with them, but he's not a hypocrite for having sex with other women, and you're not a victim.

And no, as someone said upthread, his actions aren't indicative of "a man thing" -- for plenty of men and women, it's a "being 24 thing."
posted by scody at 12:07 AM on December 10, 2005

Ha. She cheated on him and she uses the title "Why can't men keep their hands to themselves?"

Wonderful.
posted by xmutex at 12:32 AM on December 10, 2005

Another woman here, who is going to agree with scody that this is a "being 24 thing."

You're young yourself, you should get out there and enjoy the dating scene while you can -don't let yourself get hung up on this one guy. Love is great while it lasts, but don't let this become one big cycle of hurt because that will just end up destroying whatever lingering good feelings you two have for each other. Walk away and you might be able to get something good out of this.

[Though I myself am 24 and married, if my husband cheated on me and we split, chances are pretty good that I'd seek some comfort in a fling or two... or five... That is, once I got myself out of my wallowing depression and lifted my head away from the trough of Ben and Jerry's.]
posted by grapefruitmoon at 12:42 AM on December 10, 2005

Regardless of any and all factors that lead us to the point you are at right now, why would you want to be with someone who by your standards is a big ol' manwhore? If you think what's he's doing ain't cool, then don't get back together with him.
posted by 23skidoo at 1:09 AM on December 10, 2005

Did you love him when you went with the other guy?

You're confused that he's sleeping around while you're not an item, when, you were intimate with another guy while you were an item. To be blunt, I don't think you need to worry about double standards at his end.
posted by armoured-ant at 2:55 AM on December 10, 2005

I have to agree with the others about being 24. You’re the one who broke the trust here and while you would like to undo the damage that you have wrought and return to a state of innocence (namely your own) he has no such ability. The wronged party in these situations cannot dust themselves off and say ‘I will do better next time.’ So the wronged party has to adjust their world view and reconcile this new reality with their romantic hopes and aspirations. This could go in your favor – he might decide he still loves you and even though your irresponsible in a number of ways, he may think that the emotional risks can be balanced with the joys and the pleasures. On the other hand, I would suspect that as long as you hang on to some fantasy about relationships that you are not capable of practicing yourself – there is a potential for significant conflict. You are already two different people. He is, whether he wants to be or not, a little less naïve about the world and you are, presently, more of a hypocrite then you were before all of this. I suspect you are the one who needs more time here. You need to find some way of recognizing your emotional responsibility and not displacing it onto an entirely different discussion about male heterosexuality. I would say that his sleeping around is one very effective strategy for readjusting perspective. Try it. Use condoms and make responsible decisions. See where you are in 6 months.
posted by anglophiliated at 3:12 AM on December 10, 2005

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with those who have pointed out the irony between you being the cheater, and the name of your post.

I can see that this situation is very hurtful for you, but (as with 90% of the other posters here) I say that you're not together at the moment so he can do what he wants. He can't wait for you, and if you expect him to then you're expecting him to put his life on hold indefinately for you. You also can't expect him to live by your moral standard while you're not together, and if you love and trust him as you say you do, then you'll also trust his actions, and (more importantly) the intention of those actions.

Oh, and if you seriously love him and want to make something of your future with this guy, don't make a big deal of this, for your own sake. You'll only end up bitter, and then the relationship is 100% guaranteed to fail.

Good luck, I hope you find happiness, whatever happens for you.
posted by ancamp at 3:40 AM on December 10, 2005

To put a slightly different perspective on things: Why did you tell him that you "cheated" on him in the first place, aquavit? Many hurt feelings could have been saved on both sides if you had just kept quiet about it.
posted by Herr Fahrstuhl at 4:28 AM on December 10, 2005

Is it just too much to ask of a 24 year old, to actually live the lifestyle he expects of his partner?

You've got it exactly backwards. Without any explicit pre-agreement from both sides: yes, it's just too much to ask of a [number]-year-old to actually live the lifestyle that his former partner expects of him.

A "no sex after breakup clause" can't be arbitrarily imposed and enforced by one party, especially ex post facto.

That the two of you have such divergent interpretations of "break up [...] and start again" is one of many expectation differences that you both need to iron out together if you're truly interested in salvaging the relationship. Best of luck either way.
posted by DaShiv at 4:30 AM on December 10, 2005

One more vote for the "broken up" / "chance to grow" being a clear statement of being able to persue one's own interests. But only you can come to a conclusion on what his activities during that time mean to you.
posted by furtive at 6:32 AM on December 10, 2005

We were in a long distance relationship that ended a few months ago when I was intimate with another man ... it confounds me that he says he loves me but turns around and does all that stuff with all those girls

Emphasis added for clarity of absurdity. And a supporting bit of absurdity:

have definitely been in a "We're broken up" situation before where I still had an expectation that the other party would remain true in some fashion

This is truly bizarre to me. If you're broken up, you're broken up. I can understand the emotional confusion that lies behind this post, but (and I mean this in a kindly way) you need to grow up.
posted by languagehat at 6:35 AM on December 10, 2005

What Ironmouth said.
posted by mhuckaba at 6:48 AM on December 10, 2005

Once you call someone your ex, you really have no right to complain when they find other people to sleep with. You are not the center of the universe, and the sooner you figure that out, the better your life will be.
posted by MegoSteve at 7:48 AM on December 10, 2005 [1 favorite]

It's perfectly understandable to be upset, but you don't have a right to take it out on him in any way. It sounds like you two had a different understanding of what this "break" meant.

You both betrayed each other on an emotional level--in different ways. Most others are relishing in pointing out your hypocrisy here--you are being hypocritical, but that doesn't change how much pain you're feeling.

If you can't get past this--no matter what the reason is or whether you're justified in it--he's just not the guy for you. If it were me, I hope I'd cut my losses and move on, for the sake of both parties.
posted by lampoil at 8:18 AM on December 10, 2005

Your dude can apparently have sex with someone that he doesn't love. He's hardly unique in this respect but if his attitude towards sex is incompatible with yours it could pose a problem. I'm curious what you expected to happen when you break up with someone. I mean you stated that you expect him not to have sex, so I'm curious why you expected this. "See other people" generally does mean see other people naked. There is no double standard there are two different situations with different rules.

That said, being upset by this is normal, finding out that someone you care about has had sex with someone else sucks. Hell finding out that someone you used to care about had sex kinda sucks. It can feel like a lot of things, it can feel like betrayal. But, do you think it was reasonable to expect him to go without sex for a year or more? Most people his age regardless of gender would probably not think that that's reasonable. If you had clearly stated that this was what you expected from him do you think he would have accepted? Would you be willing to actually ask this of him?

You should read Love in the Time of Cholera.
posted by I Foody at 9:49 AM on December 10, 2005

As so many have said, here's why this guy hasn't done anything you can reasonably complain about:

...but decided break up so we could have a chance to grow, and start again when we lived in the same city

See that "break up" phrase there? There you go. He saw other women after a break up. You saw another man before one. Subtle, but crucial difference. If you have a break up, here's how much right you have to expect any say in the future behaviour of your ex-partner: none whatsoever.
posted by Decani at 10:10 AM on December 10, 2005

Honestly, I think you should let it go. You're young and there will be many opportunities for true love (that's what I like to tell myself anyway). Move on with your life.

In the interim, put back a few shots of your namesake (there's little better on a cold night) to drown your sorrows.
posted by aladfar at 11:04 AM on December 10, 2005

if he still wants to get back with you then do it and forget the past...if u can...if u can't, don't get back with him....and if u do don't use his dating lots of other people as a tool against him....let the past be the past....
posted by jamie939 at 12:12 PM on December 10, 2005

You don't have to be a 24-year-old man to enjoy 'action.' Esp. when you've just been cheated on by someone you love and are 'broken up.'

Otherwise they'd all be screwing each other. Wait - are they?
posted by Marnie at 12:58 PM on December 10, 2005

being in a similar position. cheating on him is a total mindfuck. not sure how he responds, but for me being wanted again and remembering that I'm sexy and worth being around was a deep desire i had. I've done stupid things, gotten into relationships I shouldn't and didn't want to be in, and fuck my head up. maybe he's doing the same. maybe he's better adjusted and just having fun. if he's hooking up all over the place it sounds like he's running from himself. there's nothing you can do. it will hurt if you love him. you just need to deal with what you did, what you want to do with your life, and grow seperately from him. if you all can get back together it will come from mutual independent strength. who knows he could be doing that shit because he knows it will hurt you. bad scene i'm sorry.
posted by aussicht at 3:49 PM on December 10, 2005

Seems to me that this is the kind of thing you go through during the courtship phase of your life. What both of you did was human nature. Another guy might respond differently, but I doubt he'd hold your attention so raptly.

My advice, just play it out as it comes, learn from the experience, and decide if you like to play it so risky or if you can emotionally handle someone else who plays the field when free.

Admit it, it's exciting. What's the Kvetching? You'll decide what you can handle, and when it's worth risking something good for a little excitement. Stringing one's self out with soap-opera dynamics is just a life-style for some. You have to decide if that's what you want in your choices and your choice of men.

Not Professional Advice!
posted by INFOHAZARD at 4:10 PM on December 10, 2005

I think the title of this piece, while it's very descriptive of your anger and hurt, is insulting (and I'm a woman, btw). You may as well ask 'why can't women not slut around?' It depends on the woman, just as it depends on the man. It seems you're making this sweeping generalisation about men so as to deflect attention from your own culpability. You seem to be fixated on what your ex-partner is doing, yet you just sweep over your own unfaithfulness with vague mentions of your guilt and "huge mistake".

You say it confounds me that he says he loves me but turns around and does all that stuff with all those girls? I think it pretty likely that wonder if he wasn't asking himself "she says she loves me but then turns around and does all that stuff with another guy?"

Remember, people aren't logical. You weren't logical when you cheated; why expect better of him than of yourself? You expected to have a loyal, loving person waiting for you when you'd finished sorting yourself out, who would remain faithful during that time. Now try to turn it around and see it from his point of view. He expected to have a loyal, loving partner during the relationship, who would remain faithful during that time. The way you're feeling now is probably the way he felt when he found out you had cheated on him. Turn the same compassion and understanding on him that you've turned on yourself.

I think if the two of you really want to sort this out, you need to talk really honestly. You also, as other posters have said, have to work out why it was you cheated in the first place. Was it a moment of insecurity? Were you drunk? Did you fancy this other man for ages and give in to the little voice that said just this once, and if we don't have sex it's not really cheating? Or was there something fundamentally uneasy in your relationship in the first place that made you go out and seek solace elsewhere?

This is really early on in the piece for both of you. Your feelings are still raw. But this is the time you have to begin talking, if you're serious about each other. Admit your culpability and don't turn it into some Mars versus Venus cliche-fest. Lay out some ground rules between you for the future, if you do decide to get back together, and then stick to them.
posted by andraste at 4:24 PM on December 10, 2005

I'll just speak up as a chronically monogamous man. It is completely unfair of you to expect your partner to read your mind in regards to what kinds of commitments and needs you have in the relationship. From what I can tell, you need to make a choice:

A: Remain "broken up," in which case you have no commitments to each other beyond polite friendship.

B: Renew the relationship, in which case you two can negotiate whatever commitments you wish.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 5:36 PM on December 10, 2005

You cheated on him while you were together. He slept with other women while you were broken up. The "double standard", aquavit, is yours, despite your wishful thinking regarding what breaking up was supposed to have meant.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 6:17 PM on December 10, 2005 [1 favorite]

Perhaps he was so busy because he wanted to get it all out of his system before coming back to. Really. He might have wanted to "sow his wild oats" so to speak. I have heard of men breaking off engagements because they feel like they haven't "lived" enough, which I think translates into slept with enough different people in different situations. So I would maybe interpret his actions as a good sign. Maybe.
posted by alms at 7:13 PM on December 10, 2005

Oh yeah, and if you want to be sure to doom all chance of getting back together with him, be sure to keep on claiming the moral high ground (hint: you don't have it) and playing the injured party.

If you want to actually have a chance, wrap your head around the fact that HE DID NOTHING WRONG, regardless of how it's made you feel. Your feelings weren't, and shouldn't have been his priority. Let it go. If you keep on insisting he's done something wrong, if you keep resenting him for it, everything's poisoned from the start.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 2:17 AM on December 11, 2005

This is a hard question to answer properly, because you're clearly feeling upset about all the things you're writing about. Some people have answered improperly: trampling on your feelings, insulting you, or calling you out. I'm giving you permission here to ignore those morons.

There are a few questions here. Some of them are about the past. Some of them are about the future.

If you want a future with this man, you need to come to peace in your own mind with everything he's done in the past, and all the bad feelings in your relationship - the bad feelings he's generated, the bad feelings you've generated too. I doubt you've done this, because you're still feeling so unhappy. If I were you, I would consider the option of a blanket amnesty - "Can I now forgive everything that's happened in our relationship up to now; can I forgive him, and can I forgive myself, and really mean it, without looking back, forever?"

If the answer's not a resoundingly clear "yes," you should probably part ways and not see him again. Constantly flagellating him, or yourself, is not going to create the relationship of love you want to be in.

The questions about the past have been answered above. Everyone's right; Saydur, who pointed out that other people are not to be kept waiting in the wings until you're ready to love them again, was certainly closest to the mark.

If you do see him again, be ready to face the possibility that he's changed. You broke up with him to give him room to grow; it sounds like he might have taken you at your word, even to the point of outgrowing you.
posted by ikkyu2 at 4:34 PM on December 11, 2005

Well, you knew before that he is someone that would consider coming back to you despite your cheating. That was (one of) the signs you had showing his attitude toward relationships and his boundaries. That one was probably in your favor.

Now, you've found out that he's someone who is able to sleep around. But he still wants to get back together. If you can't be with someone who's ever been cool with sleeping around a lot, you're stuck. Don't play the "well, he forgave me so I can let this slide" game. If you didn't think you were dating a manwhore, you now know. If it was truly a break from each other, you can now evaluate him again and this is definitely food for thought.

I don't see how this is a double standard since it's two different situations and it's more about comfort level than anything.
posted by mikeh at 8:47 AM on December 12, 2005

You are confusing seperate issues into one.

Your Bad Thing was not making out/groping/whatever some other boy. It was violating your partner's trust by doing something you had agreed not to do. Yes, it was something that had additional emotional import so that makes it worse. But first and foremost is that you broke your word.

Your issue with your ex's actions now have nothing to do with trust and promises since you didn't have any to each other. You want him to have the same unspoken and unobligated constraints you do and/or to view those physical acts with the same significance you do. This is an issue with what you want him to be and he isn't.

Interestingly, both are your problems, not his.

You need to view what is salvagable in this relationship with an eye towards what you want and your decisions and feelings, not his. If he's not the man you want you shouldn't be with him. That's on you, not him.
posted by phearlez at 12:36 PM on December 12, 2005