Pre- and Post-Op Bunny Care
October 27, 2015 2:29 PM Subscribe
A rabbit in my care is having surgery to remove a face tumor tomorrow morning. She'll be going under anesthesia. How should I care for her before and after surgery? The veterinarian told me to fast her starting this afternoon, all the way up to her 7:30 AM surgery appointment. I've read online that fasting rabbits is a bad idea...I'm also worried her hutch-mate will rip her stitches out. What should I do? (YNMVet)
I care for animals as a part my newish job at a nature center. We have 2 rabbits. I am new to rabbits and want them to be happy, healthy, and at ease. I've only been taking care of the animals for about a month, although I have taken care of animals as a pet-owner and an intern several other places.
One of our bunnies, Phoebe, started growing a lump on her face, and I took her to the vet to get it assessed.
The vet poked the lump with a thin scalpel (no numbing or anything! I would be so mad if someone did that to me :(), and since nothing drained out of it [and maybe other things] she/he decided that it was a Tumor. Even though she/he noted that rabbits do poorly under anesthesia and tend to rip out stitches, she/he made an appointment to remove the tumor tomorrow.
Two things
1) Vet instructed me to fast Phoebe from food and water from this afternoon (~2pm) until the the surgery tomorrow morning at 7:30 AM. From what I've read all over the internet, fasting rabbits is a bad idea because of the nature of their GI tract. They can't vomit anyway, which is why cats and dogs should fast prior to anesthesia. I don't want to hurt the bunny's GI tract bacteria or bowel movements from fasting her.
Vet has been closed since noon today, and won't re-open until tomorrow. Since Vet is kind enough to donate her/his services to us free of charge, I can't take our rabbit somewhere else that might be a bit more rabbit-aware.
Short version: Should I go take my rabbit's hay and water away until morning based on Veterinarian's recommendation? I don't want to slow her GI tract or hurt her liver.
2) Phoebe has a pair-bonded hutch mate bunny, Luna, ...who non-stop licks her tumorface. When Phoebe came back from the vet, tumor shaved and slightly bloody, Luna would not stop licking Phoebe's facelump. I finally separated them by giving them both leafy greens in opposite corners of their hutch. I'm worried about when she comes back from surgery tomorrow, Luna will rip Phoebe's stitches out with love licks [or cannibalism].
Vet told me to consider a cone. I am against a cone, since I thought that would make it hard for Phoebe to eat her cecotropes, and result in a poopy cone of shame. I can't be there for 24 hours at a time to hand-feed Phoebe her half-done poop morsels.
How can I going to protect Phoebe's face stitches, let her eat her poop as nature intended, and let her stay with Luna? [whey they are separated, they are so anxious and non-stop thump and chew until they are together again.]
Thank you so much, rabbit-wise MeFites. :)
I care for animals as a part my newish job at a nature center. We have 2 rabbits. I am new to rabbits and want them to be happy, healthy, and at ease. I've only been taking care of the animals for about a month, although I have taken care of animals as a pet-owner and an intern several other places.
One of our bunnies, Phoebe, started growing a lump on her face, and I took her to the vet to get it assessed.
The vet poked the lump with a thin scalpel (no numbing or anything! I would be so mad if someone did that to me :(), and since nothing drained out of it [and maybe other things] she/he decided that it was a Tumor. Even though she/he noted that rabbits do poorly under anesthesia and tend to rip out stitches, she/he made an appointment to remove the tumor tomorrow.
Two things
1) Vet instructed me to fast Phoebe from food and water from this afternoon (~2pm) until the the surgery tomorrow morning at 7:30 AM. From what I've read all over the internet, fasting rabbits is a bad idea because of the nature of their GI tract. They can't vomit anyway, which is why cats and dogs should fast prior to anesthesia. I don't want to hurt the bunny's GI tract bacteria or bowel movements from fasting her.
Vet has been closed since noon today, and won't re-open until tomorrow. Since Vet is kind enough to donate her/his services to us free of charge, I can't take our rabbit somewhere else that might be a bit more rabbit-aware.
Short version: Should I go take my rabbit's hay and water away until morning based on Veterinarian's recommendation? I don't want to slow her GI tract or hurt her liver.
2) Phoebe has a pair-bonded hutch mate bunny, Luna, ...who non-stop licks her tumorface. When Phoebe came back from the vet, tumor shaved and slightly bloody, Luna would not stop licking Phoebe's facelump. I finally separated them by giving them both leafy greens in opposite corners of their hutch. I'm worried about when she comes back from surgery tomorrow, Luna will rip Phoebe's stitches out with love licks [or cannibalism].
Vet told me to consider a cone. I am against a cone, since I thought that would make it hard for Phoebe to eat her cecotropes, and result in a poopy cone of shame. I can't be there for 24 hours at a time to hand-feed Phoebe her half-done poop morsels.
How can I going to protect Phoebe's face stitches, let her eat her poop as nature intended, and let her stay with Luna? [whey they are separated, they are so anxious and non-stop thump and chew until they are together again.]
Thank you so much, rabbit-wise MeFites. :)
I can't speak to the fasting, but is it at all possible to set them up in two separate enclosures very close to each other? Knowing bunnies, I can't imagine that there's going to be a way to keep the other one from messing with and possibly pulling out the stitches.
Maybe some well-placed vetrap will allow Phoebe to still feed normally?
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:44 PM on October 27, 2015
Maybe some well-placed vetrap will allow Phoebe to still feed normally?
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:44 PM on October 27, 2015
At least for dogs and cats, they have a variety of 'cones ' now and not just the hard plastic lampshade. Soft ones or ones that are inflatable life preserver things that don't get in the way of eating and drinking as much might be a good compromise.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 3:03 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 3:03 PM on October 27, 2015
Is the veterinarian who will be performing the surgery very experienced and knowledgeable when it comes to rabbit surgery? Are they a diplomat of the American Board of Veterinary Practioners?
posted by slime at 3:16 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by slime at 3:16 PM on October 27, 2015
Like, is this a vet who mosty sees dogs and cats or do they regularly treat rabbits and other small mammals?
posted by slime at 3:18 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by slime at 3:18 PM on October 27, 2015
Best answer: Do not fast her. Do separate them but keep them close so they can see and smell through a gate. Do make VERY SURE the vet offers pain medication (metacam or similar) because pain can put a rabbit off feeding which can lead to stasis. Do have her favourite treats available to tempt her to continue feeding afterwards. Maybe ask about getting prophylactic reglan to make sure her gut stays going (sometimes they use this post-spay). If antibiotics are offered, research the rabbit-safe ones first.
You're right about the cones and cecotrophs. If it comes to it, a Comfy Cone is better than hard plastic.
Look up rabbit spay surgery tips as well, as it is the most common surgery for bunnies.
posted by Nyx at 3:19 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
You're right about the cones and cecotrophs. If it comes to it, a Comfy Cone is better than hard plastic.
Look up rabbit spay surgery tips as well, as it is the most common surgery for bunnies.
posted by Nyx at 3:19 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have no expertise of my own, but a quick google search brought up this U Miami site that is adamant that you should not fast your rabbit.
posted by merejane at 3:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by merejane at 3:39 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Sorry, I just saw on a re-read of your question that your wrote "Since Vet is kind enough to donate her/his services to us free of charge, I can't take our rabbit somewhere else that might be a bit more rabbit-aware."
I am a veterinary technician who primarily works with dogs and cats. A few years back I briefly worked with an exotics vets who did a lot of rabbit surgery. Rabbit surgery and anesthesia IS A VERY DELICATE THING, and rabbits can be very delicate creatures. Would it at all be an option for you to try to find a veterinarian who has a lot of experience treating rabbits and who will offer you discounted services? The vet I worked with offered discounted medical services to 501(c)(3)s and other rescue/educational type groups. I strongly suggest you try that avenue you first. You try a search through the American Board of Veterinary Practitioners for a qualified vet who might be able to help you out or may be willing to work with the vet offering to do your rabbit's surgery for free to make sure that they are practicing modern/safe rabbit medicine.
posted by slime at 3:46 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
I am a veterinary technician who primarily works with dogs and cats. A few years back I briefly worked with an exotics vets who did a lot of rabbit surgery. Rabbit surgery and anesthesia IS A VERY DELICATE THING, and rabbits can be very delicate creatures. Would it at all be an option for you to try to find a veterinarian who has a lot of experience treating rabbits and who will offer you discounted services? The vet I worked with offered discounted medical services to 501(c)(3)s and other rescue/educational type groups. I strongly suggest you try that avenue you first. You try a search through the American Board of Veterinary Practitioners for a qualified vet who might be able to help you out or may be willing to work with the vet offering to do your rabbit's surgery for free to make sure that they are practicing modern/safe rabbit medicine.
posted by slime at 3:46 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Do you have a local House Rabbit Society? They're a non-profit specializing in domestic rabbits, and many if not all chapters have contact information where they will answer questions just like yours, provide referrals, and some sell specialty rabbit supplies.
That said, I don't want to touch your question because I don't know the answer and don't want to speculate, but I have seen a lot of post op bunnies, and I have never seen one with a cone on, which makes me think there may be a reason for that.
posted by ernielundquist at 4:00 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
That said, I don't want to touch your question because I don't know the answer and don't want to speculate, but I have seen a lot of post op bunnies, and I have never seen one with a cone on, which makes me think there may be a reason for that.
posted by ernielundquist at 4:00 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
@builderofscience, rabbits are extremely unlikely to vomit (they used to say it was impossible for them to do so) - fasting them for surgery will have no effect in that regard, but it may very well kill the rabbit when it goes into GI stasis (rabbits, like many herbivores, must eat constantly to keep the tract going). From where are you getting this advice?
posted by Nyx at 4:18 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Nyx at 4:18 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Since Vet is kind enough to donate her/his services to us free of charge, I can't take our rabbit somewhere else that might be a bit more rabbit-aware.
I'm getting to this late, but in this situation, I might "accidentally" forget to fast the rabbit, then cancel the surgery (and give a large apology gift to the vet of something delicious and way better than doughnuts - maybe some expensive chocolates or homemade muffins or something from my imaginary art salad delivery company). Then talk discreetly to your board, your supervisor, someone who can advise you on this -- both the veterinary aspects and the political/feelings aspects need to be handled delicately.
If you can finesse this, you'll have learned a _lot_ about how to be a master at your new job.
Otherwise -- if it doesn't turn out well, please don't beat yourself up. Just do your best, so you can know later that you did your best given the circumstances.
Good luck. Comfort.
posted by amtho at 4:56 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm getting to this late, but in this situation, I might "accidentally" forget to fast the rabbit, then cancel the surgery (and give a large apology gift to the vet of something delicious and way better than doughnuts - maybe some expensive chocolates or homemade muffins or something from my imaginary art salad delivery company). Then talk discreetly to your board, your supervisor, someone who can advise you on this -- both the veterinary aspects and the political/feelings aspects need to be handled delicately.
If you can finesse this, you'll have learned a _lot_ about how to be a master at your new job.
Otherwise -- if it doesn't turn out well, please don't beat yourself up. Just do your best, so you can know later that you did your best given the circumstances.
Good luck. Comfort.
posted by amtho at 4:56 PM on October 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
The House Rabbit Society that ernielundquist mentioned says do not fast. I suggest you do not fast, contact the vet in the morning with your questions and concerns. The rabbit will be fine waiting another day for surgery. And yes, look around for a rabbit-savvy vet that your organization could make arrangements with for the future.
posted by Bunny Boneyology at 5:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Bunny Boneyology at 5:30 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I would not be comfortable moving forward with surgery based on what you have outlined here. Standard diagnostic practice for a growth of unknown origin is aspiration cytology at a minimum, if not a biopsy. If it is a malignant tumor, it should be staged with blood tests and imaging to determine if the cancer has spread. If it's not possible to do this level of diagnostic work (which I totally understand, given the economic realities involved) then I wonder if it is worth putting this rabbit through a traumatic surgery that may not provide a lasting remission. Is the growth currently bothering the rabbit, or is it strictly cosmetic at this point?
I work at a veterinary teaching hospital, and our board-certified clinicians perform telephone or email consultations with area veterinarians at no charge. Perhaps you could suggest to your vet that they consult with an exotics vet at a college of veterinary medicine near you?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I work at a veterinary teaching hospital, and our board-certified clinicians perform telephone or email consultations with area veterinarians at no charge. Perhaps you could suggest to your vet that they consult with an exotics vet at a college of veterinary medicine near you?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I have had more than a dozen rabbits over the years. Do not fast your bunny. Be aware that separating rabbits for surgery can break their bond. A rabbit vet would consider bringing the friend to stay in the next cage during the vet stay. Consider finding a more rabbit-savvy vet. Good luck.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:23 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I would not take the rabbit back to this vet. First of all, if they're not trained to treat rabbits, they may very well kill the rabbit due to insufficient knowledge.
As you read, no rabbit should ever be fasted. This is because interruption in the continual processing of material through their GI tract can cause a slowdown that leads to stasis, a condition that can easily kill a rabbit in very short amount of time. GI motility is essential for maintaining rabbit health, it's why they need unlimited access to hay.
Next, a lump on the face could be cancerous, but it's more likely to be an abscess, especially in a younger rabbit. The vet should have done blood work to check for infection first instead of stabbing the rabbit's face without using anesthesia (that seems unnecessarily cruel, imo, I've had four rabbits and no vet I ever took them to would have done such a thing). Abscesses in rabbits can be caused by many things and it's very important to determine and treat the root cause or it can become a chronic problem. That may require x-rays or ultrasound as well as blood tests.
Also, the absence of fluid when lancing the abscess means nothing, as the material in a rabbit's abscess is more of a toothpaste consistency because they lack an enzyme that other animals possess. No liquid would have come out because there's no liquid there. So your vet is wrong that it must be a tumor. While some abscesses do have to be removed surgically, I'm not sure this vet should be doing the procedure if they're not familiar with rabbit care, at least not without consulting with more knowledgeable peers as was suggested.
I would advise you to postpone the procedure until either a different vet can be found who will donate their services or tests can be run to figure out what the problem actually is. I'd also worry that this vet may not understand or care about proper pain management during the surgery or the aftercare. There are particular drugs, especially antibiotics, that are lethal to rabbits (no -cillins, not ever).
Good luck, and I hope Phoebe feels better soon.
posted by i feel possessed at 2:28 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
As you read, no rabbit should ever be fasted. This is because interruption in the continual processing of material through their GI tract can cause a slowdown that leads to stasis, a condition that can easily kill a rabbit in very short amount of time. GI motility is essential for maintaining rabbit health, it's why they need unlimited access to hay.
Next, a lump on the face could be cancerous, but it's more likely to be an abscess, especially in a younger rabbit. The vet should have done blood work to check for infection first instead of stabbing the rabbit's face without using anesthesia (that seems unnecessarily cruel, imo, I've had four rabbits and no vet I ever took them to would have done such a thing). Abscesses in rabbits can be caused by many things and it's very important to determine and treat the root cause or it can become a chronic problem. That may require x-rays or ultrasound as well as blood tests.
Also, the absence of fluid when lancing the abscess means nothing, as the material in a rabbit's abscess is more of a toothpaste consistency because they lack an enzyme that other animals possess. No liquid would have come out because there's no liquid there. So your vet is wrong that it must be a tumor. While some abscesses do have to be removed surgically, I'm not sure this vet should be doing the procedure if they're not familiar with rabbit care, at least not without consulting with more knowledgeable peers as was suggested.
I would advise you to postpone the procedure until either a different vet can be found who will donate their services or tests can be run to figure out what the problem actually is. I'd also worry that this vet may not understand or care about proper pain management during the surgery or the aftercare. There are particular drugs, especially antibiotics, that are lethal to rabbits (no -cillins, not ever).
Good luck, and I hope Phoebe feels better soon.
posted by i feel possessed at 2:28 AM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Dana Krempels, Ph.D., who's a rabbit expert at the University of Miami, actually has a page called Pre- and Post-operative care of Rabbits that you might find helpful.
posted by i feel possessed at 2:42 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by i feel possessed at 2:42 AM on October 28, 2015
(Sorry, for the multiples, forgot to add this to the last comment.) I wanted to mention that if you have a House Rabbit Society chapter near you, or another group who does rabbit advocacy, it might be worth checking with them for help with finding a low cost/no cost vet who knows more about rabbits. If not, the local Humane Society may be worth contacting.
posted by i feel possessed at 2:47 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by i feel possessed at 2:47 AM on October 28, 2015
Response by poster: Thank you, everyone. I appreciate your support, advice, and links to Credible Things, you are wonderful.
My ultimate decision was to put the pre-op rabbit on a hay and water only [no pellets, no veggies] fast prior to her surgery.
Fast-forward to this morning: our veterinarian was furious, and wouldn't operate. S/he rescheduled the operation for sometime next week, fast and all.
Veterinarian said that even though rabbits lack a vomiting reflex, their relaxed anesthetized esophagus can let food into their trachea, therefore they Have To Fast. [How can there be so much literature on how fasting negatively impacts rabbit digestion then?!]
I don't...ja;sdlkfjasd....I feel so sad and powerless about this [silly, lumpy, stubborn, adorable] rabbit [and other aspects of my job, though that's a whole other question...].I thought I was being a responsible new animal guardian by researching things before committing to have chunks cut out of her face. I would turn to my supervisor, but she/he is upset with my decision as well. I have been told that we can't change vets because of Reasons, mostly political and institutional memory related.
I'm currently in this uncomfortable position where I am being strongly encouraged to deliver an apology for second-guessing a professional's 30+ years of work (slightly longer than I've been alive...) when I thought I made an ethical decision.
Wish our bunny well, she's going to need it. Thanks again. :)
posted by Guess What at 5:32 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
My ultimate decision was to put the pre-op rabbit on a hay and water only [no pellets, no veggies] fast prior to her surgery.
Fast-forward to this morning: our veterinarian was furious, and wouldn't operate. S/he rescheduled the operation for sometime next week, fast and all.
Veterinarian said that even though rabbits lack a vomiting reflex, their relaxed anesthetized esophagus can let food into their trachea, therefore they Have To Fast. [How can there be so much literature on how fasting negatively impacts rabbit digestion then?!]
I don't...ja;sdlkfjasd....I feel so sad and powerless about this [silly, lumpy, stubborn, adorable] rabbit [and other aspects of my job, though that's a whole other question...].I thought I was being a responsible new animal guardian by researching things before committing to have chunks cut out of her face. I would turn to my supervisor, but she/he is upset with my decision as well. I have been told that we can't change vets because of Reasons, mostly political and institutional memory related.
I'm currently in this uncomfortable position where I am being strongly encouraged to deliver an apology for second-guessing a professional's 30+ years of work (slightly longer than I've been alive...) when I thought I made an ethical decision.
Wish our bunny well, she's going to need it. Thanks again. :)
posted by Guess What at 5:32 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You ARE being a responsible animal guardian! Your supervisor (and this vet) are the ones being cavalier about this. Ugh, I feel for you (and Phoebe), this is such a tough position to be in. I would encourage you to speak up as much as you are able/comfortable with, both in terms of asking questions of the vet and pushing your organization to work with another vet. Your organization doesn't even need to cut ties with this vet, but maybe you could add another vet to the network? Vet A sees dogs and cats, New Vet sees exotics/tough cases.
posted by Bunny Boneyology at 5:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Bunny Boneyology at 5:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There's nothing wrong with you and I'm very proud of you. Veterinarians who specialize in treating exotic animals have to go out of their way to pursue extra training that general veterinarians don't receive. Your vet, as experienced as they may be with non-exotic animals, does not seem qualified to treat rabbits.
I'm furious on your behalf that you're being put in this situation. A rabbit who doesn't eat for more than 12 hours is considered to be entering into a state of veterinary emergency and requires immediate treatment. Fasting Phoebe will make her sick and possibly kill her faster than any tumor or abscess could, it's that simple. If you include the time it takes to fast, perform the surgery, recovery (when she will be in pain and even less likely to want to eat), and travel, it's entirely possible she wouldn't have eaten for 24 hours or longer. That's unconscionable and irresponsible on your vet's part. The fact that your vet doesn't understand this means they shouldn't be allowed to continue treating her.
What I would suggest is that you start calling rabbit-savvy vets in your area and ask them to talk to your supervisor and your vet if you end up having no other choice. This vet telling you to do something that could literally kill Phoebe because they're too ignorant of rabbit biology. You sound like the best bunny carer Phoebe could have and I'm really glad you're there to advocate for her.
posted by i feel possessed at 7:00 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm furious on your behalf that you're being put in this situation. A rabbit who doesn't eat for more than 12 hours is considered to be entering into a state of veterinary emergency and requires immediate treatment. Fasting Phoebe will make her sick and possibly kill her faster than any tumor or abscess could, it's that simple. If you include the time it takes to fast, perform the surgery, recovery (when she will be in pain and even less likely to want to eat), and travel, it's entirely possible she wouldn't have eaten for 24 hours or longer. That's unconscionable and irresponsible on your vet's part. The fact that your vet doesn't understand this means they shouldn't be allowed to continue treating her.
What I would suggest is that you start calling rabbit-savvy vets in your area and ask them to talk to your supervisor and your vet if you end up having no other choice. This vet telling you to do something that could literally kill Phoebe because they're too ignorant of rabbit biology. You sound like the best bunny carer Phoebe could have and I'm really glad you're there to advocate for her.
posted by i feel possessed at 7:00 AM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's entirely possible that The Internet (us) is wrong here, and that the vet is right. It's also possible that the vet is not the best possible vet for this rabbit -- we don't know, and you don't know. You should apologize for sure, but maybe give some thought about exactly what you are apologizing for. The vet's inconvenience, time, maybe underestimating her expertise. Your supervisor probably also deserves an apology, definitely for your putting her in this position.
However, please don't feel bad about doing the best job you know how. Your supervisor will probably come to appreciate it, and the vet might even come to appreciate it (eventually). You are all on the same side, just with imperfect communication. Maybe you could request further reading from the vet, for example, after this has cooled down.
The politics of this situation are difficult; this is part of your job, so just take a breath and handle it.
This is not happening because you were careless or lazy, or angry, or upset, or impaired, or prejudiced; this is happening because you didn't have the information you needed and you set out to get it the best way you knew how. That you would take this initiative is a _good_ thing. Please don't let others' being upset prevent you from doing your best in the future.
Maybe you can find another way of getting information. Suggestions above to establish connections with veterinary teaching institutions look promising, for example.
Even if it turns out that the Phoebe does need to be fasted, and does fine, you should feel good knowing that you are doing the absolute best that you can. If you're going to make mistakes (and you are), this is the way to do it - while trying sincerely to do the absolute best that you can, and learning more and more.
If your course was actually correct, the situation would in fact be a lot harder to handle (the vet would be embarrassed and defensive, and harder to maintain a relationship with), but still not impossible.
posted by amtho at 8:52 AM on October 28, 2015
However, please don't feel bad about doing the best job you know how. Your supervisor will probably come to appreciate it, and the vet might even come to appreciate it (eventually). You are all on the same side, just with imperfect communication. Maybe you could request further reading from the vet, for example, after this has cooled down.
The politics of this situation are difficult; this is part of your job, so just take a breath and handle it.
This is not happening because you were careless or lazy, or angry, or upset, or impaired, or prejudiced; this is happening because you didn't have the information you needed and you set out to get it the best way you knew how. That you would take this initiative is a _good_ thing. Please don't let others' being upset prevent you from doing your best in the future.
Maybe you can find another way of getting information. Suggestions above to establish connections with veterinary teaching institutions look promising, for example.
Even if it turns out that the Phoebe does need to be fasted, and does fine, you should feel good knowing that you are doing the absolute best that you can. If you're going to make mistakes (and you are), this is the way to do it - while trying sincerely to do the absolute best that you can, and learning more and more.
If your course was actually correct, the situation would in fact be a lot harder to handle (the vet would be embarrassed and defensive, and harder to maintain a relationship with), but still not impossible.
posted by amtho at 8:52 AM on October 28, 2015
That follow-up. Ow.
I know you can't bring the rabbit to another vet, but can you get a telephone second opinion from another vet (or two, or three), preferably a rabbit specialist? Talk to them, explain the case and present the information and let them know you're really, really concerned about the fasting advice. The vet is not being very professional, and is definitely risking the health of the animal; I have seen multiple rabbit specialist vets (owned three house rabbits, all deceased now - two from GI stasis) over the past decade and all four of them confirmed what I mentioned: rabbits should not be fasted.
Now, it's possible that the prevailing opinion has changed. That's fine. A vet who specializes in small exotics should be able to tell you how they're going to deal with the problem of fasting an animal who cannot be fasted, as well as providing their reasoning, rather than throwing a hissyfit.
I know we only see one side, but what you're telling me is sounding alarm bells. I've been an animal nut for years and have a pretty good relationship with our current (feline) vet, and if they decided to get mad at me for second-guessing them, the relationship would end. They may be the vet's patient, but they're my companions - if they die, I stand to lose a lot more than the vet does.
All that being said... because it is a professional issue, your hands may be more tied than otherwise. Could you present the information to your supervisor to demonstrate why the decision was made and why it's a good one?
posted by Nyx at 9:15 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know you can't bring the rabbit to another vet, but can you get a telephone second opinion from another vet (or two, or three), preferably a rabbit specialist? Talk to them, explain the case and present the information and let them know you're really, really concerned about the fasting advice. The vet is not being very professional, and is definitely risking the health of the animal; I have seen multiple rabbit specialist vets (owned three house rabbits, all deceased now - two from GI stasis) over the past decade and all four of them confirmed what I mentioned: rabbits should not be fasted.
Now, it's possible that the prevailing opinion has changed. That's fine. A vet who specializes in small exotics should be able to tell you how they're going to deal with the problem of fasting an animal who cannot be fasted, as well as providing their reasoning, rather than throwing a hissyfit.
I know we only see one side, but what you're telling me is sounding alarm bells. I've been an animal nut for years and have a pretty good relationship with our current (feline) vet, and if they decided to get mad at me for second-guessing them, the relationship would end. They may be the vet's patient, but they're my companions - if they die, I stand to lose a lot more than the vet does.
All that being said... because it is a professional issue, your hands may be more tied than otherwise. Could you present the information to your supervisor to demonstrate why the decision was made and why it's a good one?
posted by Nyx at 9:15 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry that you're in this position. I think its admirable of you to be an advocate for this rabbit. This seems like an especially tricky situation because this is your employer. Good luck!
posted by slime at 9:25 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by slime at 9:25 AM on October 28, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by TenaciousB at 2:43 PM on October 27, 2015