mouthing the words that someone else is saying - what's it mean?
October 12, 2015 1:59 PM Subscribe
When I am talking to my husband, he will mouth the words I am saying. Is this some deeper psychological issue, or just an amusing quirk?
Online discussions of this phenomena that I've seen range from "it's echolalia" (which it's not, because he's not vocalizing them, just mouthing them) to "[the person] should get a hearing test" to "everyone I've ever met who did that is schizophrenic".
(His sister does it also.)
Online discussions of this phenomena that I've seen range from "it's echolalia" (which it's not, because he's not vocalizing them, just mouthing them) to "[the person] should get a hearing test" to "everyone I've ever met who did that is schizophrenic".
(His sister does it also.)
My mother does this! Not always, but the more she is paying attention to you, and the more interested she is in what you are saying, the more likely she will do it. She once told me that she discussed it with a doctor (or maybe psychologist, I don't remember) and they said it was just an enhanced version of mirroring.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:15 PM on October 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 2:15 PM on October 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
I work with someone who does this. When I am telling her a lively or dramatic story she will subtly mimic my facial expressions and movements. It's weird and distracting to see although she is otherwise a lovely person. I've known her for about 20 years but have only noticed this behaviour in the past three years or so. I often wonder if anyone has ever said anything to her. I know I'm not about to.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 2:24 PM on October 12, 2015
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 2:24 PM on October 12, 2015
One rule in psychology is that no single random behavior leads to a diagnosis. If there is literally nothing else strange about the way he acts with regard to language and communication, it's just a quirk - possibly a learned behavior (siblings often acquire or reinforce each other's behavioral quirks.)
posted by SMPA at 2:24 PM on October 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by SMPA at 2:24 PM on October 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Have you asked him why he does it / if he is aware of it?
posted by pravit at 2:40 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by pravit at 2:40 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
My mother did that, and so does one of my brothers. My mother was not the most normal person who ever lived but she wasn't mentally ill that I know of. My brother is fine.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:44 PM on October 12, 2015
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:44 PM on October 12, 2015
What are the neural bases of action understanding? Although this capacity could merely involve visual analysis of the action, it has been argued that we actually map this visual information onto its motor representation in our nervous system. Here we discuss evidence for the existence of a system, the ‘mirror system’, that seems to serve this mapping function in primates and humans, and explore its implications for the understanding and imitation of action.Neurophysiological mechanisms underlying the understanding and imitation of action
in short: why make these things separate in your brain? or rather, no-one is going to make them separate. your brain is a hot mess of evolved mish-mash that is under no pressure to be "tidy" or to separate "doing" from "understanding" any more than is necessary to not die. and you do not die when your mouth moves while listening to someone else speak.
you could argue it is evidence of poor hearing, though, since he's focussing on action more than (or in addition to) sound. but
The notion “action understanding” has been generalized in humans to include speech perception (Wilson, Saygin, Sereno, & Iacoboni, 2004; Rizzolatti & Arbib, 1998; Gallese et al., 1996).Eight Problems for the Mirror Neuron Theory of Action Understanding in Monkeys and Humans (which, it should be admitted, is against the whole idea).
i have no idea if this is considered a reasonable theory; i just vaguely remembered it existed and dug articles out of google (not a neurophysicist).
posted by andrewcooke at 2:58 PM on October 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
My mother has taken to doing this in the past couple of years, though she never did it before. She is old (84) but her hearing is and has always been excellent. However, her sight has deteriorated very badly in the past three years or so, and I've often wondered if it might have something to do with that.
posted by Samarium at 3:20 PM on October 12, 2015
posted by Samarium at 3:20 PM on October 12, 2015
I know a few people who do this-- and they also often finishing my sentences with me. It seems to be a form of mirroring, in my experience.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 3:32 PM on October 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by a fiendish thingy at 3:32 PM on October 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hang on, you mean he's a couple of seconds behind you, right? Because if he's mouthing the words along with as you SAY them, that's getting creepy.
If nothing else, you know he's really paying attention to what you're saying!
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:37 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If nothing else, you know he's really paying attention to what you're saying!
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:37 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wonder if he's maybe just so involved in listening to you that at some level, his brain thinks he's the one saying this stuff?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:09 PM on October 12, 2015
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:09 PM on October 12, 2015
It just sounds like a way of processing information. You know how some people can hear directions given out loud and remember them, but other people have to have them written down? Like that.
posted by thetortoise at 6:07 PM on October 12, 2015
posted by thetortoise at 6:07 PM on October 12, 2015
Response by poster: Have you asked him why he does it / if he is aware of it?
He is not aware of it when he does it. I asked him why he does it, and he just kinda shrugged.
posted by Lucinda at 7:24 PM on October 12, 2015
He is not aware of it when he does it. I asked him why he does it, and he just kinda shrugged.
posted by Lucinda at 7:24 PM on October 12, 2015
I have had customers in a retail setting do this, and it's offputting, but you get used to it. I figure it helps them process, so I'm not going to judge.
I read once that if you go to an exhibit of Chinese calligraphy, you will sometimes see people moving their hands in the same motion used to do the characters-- it's probably the same idea.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:19 PM on October 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
I read once that if you go to an exhibit of Chinese calligraphy, you will sometimes see people moving their hands in the same motion used to do the characters-- it's probably the same idea.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:19 PM on October 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Because if he's mouthing the words along with as you SAY them
If I'm saying something where it's obvious what the ending is going to be, he'll mouth it along with me. Sometimes I say something completely random just to throw him off.
posted by Lucinda at 7:27 AM on October 13, 2015
If I'm saying something where it's obvious what the ending is going to be, he'll mouth it along with me. Sometimes I say something completely random just to throw him off.
posted by Lucinda at 7:27 AM on October 13, 2015
I do this. In my case, it's because I have a habit of finishing people's sentences for them. Which is rude. But I don't mean it in a rude way: in my head I'm just affirming that I'm listening enthusiastically and trying to participate in the conversation. But, you know, still rude. So I bite my tongue, and often find myself silently mouthing the words I wish I were saying out loud. Which, now that you mention it, probably looks weird. Maybe that's what he's up to?
posted by libraritarian at 9:04 AM on October 13, 2015
posted by libraritarian at 9:04 AM on October 13, 2015
If this has just started recently, then it might be a good idea to consult with a neurologist; a sudden change like that could be an early sign of something wrong. But if it's been going on his whole life, I think this is firmly in "amusing quirk" territory. I've known a few people that do it, and I don't think it's particularly abnormal.
andrewcooke above mentioned mirror neuron theory. Broadly speaking, the idea is that there are parts of your brain (in the frontal lobe) which have similar or identical activity when a) you perform an action like moving your mouth, b) you imagine performing that action, and c) you watch someone else performing that action; this is called the "mirror neuron" system. The theory is that our brains have systems that represent possible actions that we might perform ("premotor" activity), and that since evolution works with what's already present, we evolved to use these same systems to represent the actions of others that we see being performed, "mirroring" their actions in our own movement repertoire. The specific details of the mirror neuron theory are somewhat contentious in neuroscience, but the broad picture I just described seems reasonably consistent with what we know.
A corollary of the theory is that this system in our brains is constantly generating potential actions (not to be confused with action potentials -- sorry, a little bad neuroscience humor), while a second system inhibits most of these actions from actually being performed. The un-performed "potential actions" are used for other cognitive tasks, like understanding what another person is doing. Under this theory, then, a possible explanation of why your husband does this is that either his representation of your speech is unusually strong, or his system for inhibiting the translation of that representation into his own action is somewhat weak.
A somewhat related phenomenon I recall reading about is "subvocalization," which is the subtle movement of the mouth while reading. In most people, visible subvocalization goes away as reading fluency improves, but if you measure the activity of a reader's facial muscles with an electromyogram, it turns out that even skilled readers still produce tiny muscle twitches as they read. These tiny muscle twitches are what "get through" from the suppressed "potential speech" we produce during reading. I remember hearing about some studies that showed that this is true not only for reading but also just for listening to other people talk, though I can't seem to confirm that right now. But, if this is true, that it would imply that all of us are constantly echoing each others' speech movements, just like your husband -- most of us just do it non-visibly.
posted by biogeo at 9:33 AM on October 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
andrewcooke above mentioned mirror neuron theory. Broadly speaking, the idea is that there are parts of your brain (in the frontal lobe) which have similar or identical activity when a) you perform an action like moving your mouth, b) you imagine performing that action, and c) you watch someone else performing that action; this is called the "mirror neuron" system. The theory is that our brains have systems that represent possible actions that we might perform ("premotor" activity), and that since evolution works with what's already present, we evolved to use these same systems to represent the actions of others that we see being performed, "mirroring" their actions in our own movement repertoire. The specific details of the mirror neuron theory are somewhat contentious in neuroscience, but the broad picture I just described seems reasonably consistent with what we know.
A corollary of the theory is that this system in our brains is constantly generating potential actions (not to be confused with action potentials -- sorry, a little bad neuroscience humor), while a second system inhibits most of these actions from actually being performed. The un-performed "potential actions" are used for other cognitive tasks, like understanding what another person is doing. Under this theory, then, a possible explanation of why your husband does this is that either his representation of your speech is unusually strong, or his system for inhibiting the translation of that representation into his own action is somewhat weak.
A somewhat related phenomenon I recall reading about is "subvocalization," which is the subtle movement of the mouth while reading. In most people, visible subvocalization goes away as reading fluency improves, but if you measure the activity of a reader's facial muscles with an electromyogram, it turns out that even skilled readers still produce tiny muscle twitches as they read. These tiny muscle twitches are what "get through" from the suppressed "potential speech" we produce during reading. I remember hearing about some studies that showed that this is true not only for reading but also just for listening to other people talk, though I can't seem to confirm that right now. But, if this is true, that it would imply that all of us are constantly echoing each others' speech movements, just like your husband -- most of us just do it non-visibly.
posted by biogeo at 9:33 AM on October 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
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I think she just processes things that way during conversations, the way some people have to look right at you, some people look to a fixed point, some people lean closer or tilt their head to one side, some people nod along, some people vocalize, etc. (I obviously have zero expertise in this area but it's never worried me.)
posted by kapers at 2:15 PM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]