My dog bites
October 11, 2015 5:20 PM   Subscribe

I adopted Hillary in May. She's a seven or eight year old, ten pound chihuahua-mix. Her former owner died. She was at the shelter for about seven months and was the office dog. She has been to the vet and had bloodwork and x-rays. She has degenerative disc disease and is on Tramadol and Carprofen. Ever since I got her she has had a problem with fear biting.

She is very active and loves to walk and jump up on the backs of the furniture and the bed. At one point she hurt herself jumping on the rocks while hiking. She couldn't jump then and the vet said she might never recover completely at her age but she has fully resumed her former activity. I've seen her in pain and normal, and she's not in pain now. She seems like a pretty happy dog most of the time.

The problem is that once in a while, for no apparent reason, she will snap at you while you're petting her. She also bites hard when you try to handle her. The shelter had her on a drag leash but I don't. I put a carabiner on her collar and she lets me touch that. She still doesn't like having her collar touched. If I put my hands near her mouth to correct her she bites me. I'm using shunning as punishment for biting. Will she get the point?

I know there's a tendency to think that small dogs just bite but that can't be true. Is it still early days for this old dog and I? Will this pass after a while? Please help this first-time dog owner have a non-biting dog.
posted by irisclara to Pets & Animals (16 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
How's your dog budget? If there's room in it, and the service is available where you live, I'd consider private training classes for the two of you. Biting is a tricky business - sounds like you're off to the right start with shunning, but a proper trainer might be able to help her and coach you to do so as well.

The obvious questions: Is she getting enough exercise? Does she have a consistent routine each day so she knows what to expect? Is she getting regular training sessions (basic behavior review, tricks if you think she can do it) with you? All three of those will usually help dogs that are anxious to be less anxious... but if you're already doing all that and it's not helping, some sessions with a trainer might be the way to go.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 5:27 PM on October 11, 2015


No, a dog doesn't know what shunning is, only that you are an unpredictable person with weird energy who may not be safe or trustable.

She's head-shy, you need to look into methodologies for dealing with that. You may be dealing additionally with overstimulation, the cure for which is learn to read the signs and stop before you get there. Maybe stop using a collar (they're dangerous and not a great idea anyway) and switch to a harness if it doesn't trigger either pain or anxiety-about-pain.

Is the biting or is she nipping? Because nipping is dogese for "don't do that" and sometimes the solution is just to not do that. This is something you have to be careful about with a dog with a compromised spine, because there's a lot of anxiety that hurt will happen even when they aren't in pain in the moment, and you kind of have to respect that.

I agree, you should have a trainer come to your home. You probably won't need more than an hour (and they're often very reasonable even for a home visit, and a good trainer knows that the environment is a huge deal and wants to see the dog in it), let them show you some ways to manage these situations that meet the dog where the dog is.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:31 PM on October 11, 2015 [8 favorites]


What? No. We are devotees of positive training but when a dog BITES you bark a deep, firm, emphatic NO.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:36 PM on October 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


I think a trainer or behaviorist is a great idea, and I'd add to do it early rather than waiting to see if you can solve it on your own. You don't want to accidentally introduce bad habits that will make your dog less safe to be around.
posted by instamatic at 5:38 PM on October 11, 2015


Response by poster: She cannot be handled for nail trimming or bathing. The shelter said they had bathed her before I got her but I don't know how. She doesn't like any harness I've tried on her. I can muzzle her but she pulls it off. I live in a small town in West Virginia. There's probably trainers around though. I'll look into it.

She nips when being petted on her head sometimes, but only after a bit of petting in that area. She bites hard if I try to pill her or lift her feet.

Thanks for the suggestions! Please continue!
posted by irisclara at 5:42 PM on October 11, 2015


I can muzzle her but she pulls it off. = if she can pull it off, it's not the right size. My chihuahua needed to be muzzled at the vet, and they had one that she couldn't take off.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:14 PM on October 11, 2015


Dogs really don't get punishment, especially if that punishment means getting ignored. It's just... not going to register. I don't know what you mean by "correcting" her, but she's likely not getting that, either. It tends to just create a fear cycle without ever showing them the desirable behavior.

You need to figure out if this is fear or a response to physical pain. Really, really try to rule out a physical cause. Just because it doesn't show up on a scan doesn't mean it's not there. She could have arthritis, in which case a daily Glucosamine may do the trick. Certain exercises (especially water exercises) may also help relieve the pain. If she's responding negatively to you petting her it seems likely that pain could be a factor here.

In the absence of a physical cause, you need to try and get her trust back. It's likely that she has some trauma surrounding her head/neck and being picked up. One way to address this issue is to slowly help her adjust to having you handle those parts of her body. So, if she fears you touching her neck, place your hand on her shoulder blades, for example, and if she doesn't respond negatively quickly click and treat. Repeat. Move your hand forward after a few tries. You can also try hovering your hand NEAR her neck, then clicking and treating. Right now the association is negative. You need to turn it into a positive one. Since she doesn't like being picked up, you can try putting your hands on her as if you were going to pick her up, then click and treat. Repeat.

It takes time, and I give you credit for wanting to work with her. Biting is a tough one. I nth the idea of hiring a trainer. If I had to guess I would say it's a combination of pain and fear. She could have SOME aches and pains, and she could be so used to people being too rough that she's reacting to a gentle touch with fear.

You may also look into treating her for anxiety. If fear is a factor it could really, really help. Prozac has worked very well for my very anxious lab. It's affordable, and she likely doesn't need to be on it forever, or even for a super long time.

Good luck. My dog was a feral, growling, fearful mess who destroyed absolutely everything when we first brought him home. It took about a year for him to really turn around. It's been three years now since I got him and he's JUST starting to really trust other people. For the worst of it, however, it took a year. It can be done! This is a rough time for her, too. It just takes work.
posted by Amy93 at 6:25 PM on October 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Sorry, so, on re-read, I see she has a degenerative disk disease. Pain is likely a factor, then, but that doesn't mean this is inevitable. Have you talked to your vet about, say, water exercises? They will likely relieve some of her discomfort, and if you combine that with addressing her anxieties the behavior will (likely, hopefully) improve.

Good luck!
posted by Amy93 at 6:30 PM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


My super sweet elderly dog has osteoarthritis. The only 2 times he's ever growled at my (at the time) toddlers was when I gave him tramadol. I can't prove anything from that, but I told my vet who switched it out for gabapentin and there's been no further incidents, so you may want to ask your vet. Good luck.
posted by cestmoi15 at 6:41 PM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Good for you for adopting an older dog. I would stop doing the things that precede her biting.

My dog does not like people reaching out to pet his head over his muzzle. He prefers that people let him sniff their hand and scratch under his chin. I ask people to respect that. Your dog sounds like she has preferences as well and possibly an unknown past. If she was my dog I would take the collar off and only put it on her if something really great was going to happen and start very very slowly. She looks at collar she gets a treat. Over and over again. She goes near the collar. Treat, treat, treat. Let's you put on collar, treat. You get the picture.

As far as grooming goes my dog has one nail bed that is much longer than his other ones. It has been cut and caused him pain and he has bitten a groomer. I had the Vet look at his nails and that is how I found out about the one nail bed. He hates having his nails done and if not restrained correctly will bite. His current groomer has the info, she does his nails and I leave. He cries if I am around and carries on like he is being tortured. If I leave he acts like it is nothing. Why he does that is a mystery to me.

I agree with others that a visit from a dog behaviorist might really help. It sounds like she has some negative associations going on and I think you could turn them around with positive reinforcement rather than shunning. She doesn't know what that is. I would stop with whatever you are doing with your hand near her mouth and the other things that precede her biting. She is only doing it in certain situations so she doesn't sound like an out of control maniac.

Good luck... She is very cute.
posted by cairnoflore at 6:57 PM on October 11, 2015


Still think she may be having some pain. Dogs prefer to hide pain and at 7 months, you may indeed be in early days of detecting it. Has she bitten at you the whole time (though occasionally) or more in recent time? All the things you mention have to do with handling and not other situations which provoke some sort of fear.

I only had one vet I trusted (across two dogs) to truly assess for pain, especially arthritis pain. Also agree that switching the med may show a change, though you didn't say if the biting arose with the meds.

It sounds like her response is specific to touching, and therefore likely physical. I think you'll have a non-biting dog if you keep exploring. Good luck.
posted by Riverine at 7:00 PM on October 11, 2015


Response by poster: She's on Carprofen 2x daily and Tramadol 2x daily as a topical in her ear. She takes it well with a bit of dried chicken before and after. She eats from my hand when I give her the Carprofen in food. Her vet thinks everything is stable now. We walked four miles the other day and she was still lively and jumped in the car to go home.

As far as handling, she will push her nose and head under my hands and encourage me to scratch her jaw. She did startle at first if you reached for the top of her head but I showed her my hand or touched her somewhere else first. Now she doesn't flinch, and immediately pushes her head into my hand. Every so often she will snarl and snap at my hand. Often she doesn't even get up and move away like she sometimes does when she doesn't want to be touched. Just normal doggie scritchies and then, snap, then once she calms back down, more scritchies. Seriously, she puts her head back under my hands like she doesn't know what happened.
posted by irisclara at 7:37 PM on October 11, 2015


Have you considered calling the shelter and asking them if they had any similar experiences with Hilary (she's a beauty, btw!). They may also have a behaviorist on staff or offer discounted consulting for people who have adopted from them. I know the SPCA in my town does this.

You say "once in awhile" this happens. How often is that? I wonder if it's happening when her pain meds are wearing off, or maybe she's had a lot of activity that day so her disc troubles are exacerbated. If it only happens once a month or so, I think I'd try to look for similarities in her routine on the days it happens to try to get at root cause.

Best of luck - She's a lucky girl to have such a caring owner!
posted by mulcahy at 7:42 PM on October 11, 2015


Owner of a reactive & fear biting dog. You don't mention how long you've had the dog, it took me over 18 months to get my dog to stop fear biting, he didn't have the added stress of being in pain from time to time.

The thing that worked best for me was gaining my dogs trust, he had to trust me as his "owner" before I was really in a position where he'd listen to me about other things, and also I had to build his confidence so he wouldn't feel that he had no control & wasn't being listened to. A lot of can build in time as the dog gets to know you but I really found agility training helped us immensely build that bond quickly & start to trust each other. Obviously with your dogs health issues agility is out, but could she do a gentle training class? learning even a few simple tricks can work a world of difference.

I would avoid the Petsmart kind & look to a private dog trainer, classes, even private ones, are not as expensive as you might think. I'd look to learning clicker training if possible. If you can't afford classes there are a lot of good YouTube videos.

You want to reinforce positive interactions. She lets you pat her head & doesn't freak out, she gets a click and a treat. She lets you just touch her foot in passing, click and a treat, build up to letting you hold her feet but do nothing click & a treat. Slowly slowly build on positive outcomes.

Also remember that sometimes it's easier to just find a work around, pick your battles. My dog hated the harness at first & we had to fight to get him in it, he slowly came to suffer it when he realized oh the harness means I'm going for a walk & I love walks, fine you may put it on me but I am going to roll to try & get it off until we get out the door, & don't even think of putting a coat on me. I ended up going with an easy slip on martingale collar for walks as I couldn't take his drama queen antics. On that note look into a professional dog groomer to do the nails (some vets will do them too) for some reason dogs are better with strangers trimming their nails.

The head scratch thing is weird, but I am wondering if she is accidentally being caused pain some how while you are patting her, does she have any teeth or ear troubles? Is she having pain in her neck? How is her eyesight?

If it makes you feel better, my dog went from a scared dog that hid under a blanket in his dog bed, for the first 6 months unless we encouraged him out. He would let you pat him, but only on his back & only for a certain length of time, & don't make eye contact or put your head too near while doing it, to a dog that woke my husband and I up this morning with kisses & then threw himself on his back in my arms for his morning belly rubs. It has taken us several years to get to this point though.

Think slow & steady steps, build confidence in both you & the dog with some professional training & routine. Dogs love routine & that really builds their confidence.
posted by wwax at 8:16 PM on October 11, 2015


Good on you for adopting an older dog! I think they're the best. You mention that you are a first time dog owner. The learning curve can be steep but rewarding. I work in the animal medical field and I find that people have all sorts of misconceptions about how dogs think and how they learn. I think finding an animal behavior professional is a great idea. But I'd also recommend you do some reading to get a better idea about how dogs think and how they process the world. I grew up with dogs, work with them, and have owned them as an adult, but I've found the following resources really helpful in helping me understand how they work.

How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves by Dr. Sophia Yin
Animals in Translation by Temple Grandin
Don't Shoot the Dog! by Karen Pryor
The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs by Patricia B. McConnell

In general, positive reinforcement only. Punishment and "shunning" don't work.
posted by slime at 5:57 AM on October 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


Nth seek advice from a local trainer who can see her in a familiar environment. Nth positive training tactics, not shunning.

I'm pretty sure dogs don't think of us as their owners. Dogs don't really speak English (or any other human language), but rather we work out ways to communicate with one another. She and her former owner had worked up a vocabulary of poses, voice tones, routines, and gestures with which to communicate. She is a complex animal with a wide range of emotions combined in subtle and unique ways.

I suspect that Hillary and her former companion shared a strong emotional bond. Now her former companion is dead, and she has to learn a new language from a person with whom she does not share all the links she and her former companion created--the ones comprising her universe. She has no way to communicate to you what her world is supposed to be like. She has to learn your ways. She has to learn how your pack works, and where she fits into it.

All that, and she's dealing with medical issues. She's lucky to have found in you a caring companion.
posted by mule98J at 12:02 PM on October 12, 2015


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