[Photo filter] Getting paid for work.
October 10, 2015 8:22 AM   Subscribe

Friend of mine (and her co-editor) want 20-30 of my photos for their book, but since the grants are still pending, do not know how much they can pay yet. Is this a terrible idea to give them photos? Do I just ask for a minimum either per photo or as a package? I'm a newbie, having lucked into one book cover...so. She's a genuine friend, if it matters.
posted by intrepid_simpleton to Work & Money (9 answers total)
 
Let's look at this another way.

Could you quote a reasonable market price and get a contract for the sale with your personal assurance to her that you won't try to collect on the invoice unless they get their grants together? Would that be an assurance she'd and her co-editor would find sufficient?

I ask this because I think there's a chance the answer is no. I don't think it's unreasonable for the answer to be no, since written agreements are worth more than verbal promises. But I point it out because it's functionally identical to you handing over photo use with only a hand-wavey promise to maybe pay later.

Well, it's identical in the sense of someone has a possible downside hanging over them. I bet it's not that identitial in reality, no matter how good a friend this person is, because the reality is that when someone should get paid it's easier to not come through than when someone has to get paid. Making money in publishing a book is hard and you don't want to make it too easy to shaft you. They might never think of it as shafting you; it might just amount up to them not making one or ten more hail-mary shots at an additional grant because they'd like to actually sleep or see their family. But the result could be you ending up not paid because everyone else actually had a signed agreement.

So if you want to help a friend and risk no payment maybe you can ink a contract that distinguishes between helping a charity venture and selling to a successful book. A $50 payment for use of the photos in layout and a print run of up to 50, say - something that allows them to do proofs and get on with their work. A more industry standard rate for a larger print run. (Not knowing what we're talking about here who knows what that is? Google, probably, but not us)

I think for the amount larger than that, if they can pay for a good print run, you should ask her to trust you that you'll adjust the rate later. I would just present it as a "this is what my research says you'll probably be paying someone else" and take it as a sign if she wants closer to $0, since that probably indicates how they'd be mentally processing finding you money after the fact.

This sounds more cynical than I mean it, but having dealt with this sort of problem collecting on even simple "I'll get you some tickets next time I'm in town" (looking at you, Victor Krauss) I have seen first-hand that people let stuff go when it falls outside their standard business process. When you ask them to pay they mentally slot you differently.
posted by phearlez at 8:44 AM on October 10, 2015 [8 favorites]


It is not a terrible idea to give them the photos, no, especially if you were let her use them if there was no chance of payment.


She's a friend and while I am the last person to endorse the whole "do it for the exposure!" you can do this so that there if there is money, you get some. You're going to need to do a license agreement anyway.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:02 AM on October 10, 2015


You never get shafted, showing your work. Make the agreement you get credit and the work only goes in the book, film, etc, and is not used for profit otherwise. Only PR for the piece, no printing or sale of images. It is free publicity.

I once gave a documentary film maker thirty images. Other photogs tried to sell a couple. The result is in the opening sequence and credits.
posted by Oyéah at 9:04 AM on October 10, 2015


Work out a price, but don't impede production of your earning potential.
posted by Oyéah at 9:06 AM on October 10, 2015


Movie production people sometimes sign contracts for deferred payment based on the eventual grant money and/or takings of the film. You could dig up such a contract and see how it's phrased.
posted by zadcat at 9:13 AM on October 10, 2015


I'm not intimately familiar with grants, but you might want them to verify that the terms of the grant will not be violated by such prior commitment. As a guy who has been paid both to play music (often), write (seldom) and do photography (once), I'm of the opinion that if someone is REALLY a pre-existing friend, there's nothing wrong with working out a $1 deal or the like. I mean, as I think phearlez has alluded to, I'd rather give it away than get shafted.

(and yeah, I'm still waiting on a courtesy copy of a book I agreed to proofread)
posted by randomkeystrike at 9:40 AM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


Not sure of the context of "the grants are still pending," but can they not come back and talk to you when the grants are through pending?

It's pretty standard in most industries to sort out your budget before you start negotiating to pay people.
posted by drjimmy11 at 2:27 PM on October 10, 2015


What kind of book is this? A photography book? A fiction book? An academic publication? Do they have an established/institutional publisher, or is this like a small independent press?
posted by suedehead at 3:14 PM on October 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


Do a deal for a stated percentage of the grant, or a minimum of $___ per photo, whichever is greater.
posted by JimN2TAW at 12:08 PM on October 29, 2015


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