Help me clean up this oral sex misunderstanding
October 2, 2015 11:02 PM Subscribe
I didn't go down on her. How do I tell her why?
A woman that I'm dating thinks that I treated her like a sex object because I didn't see to her needs the first time we had sex.
How do I tell her the only reason I didn't go down on her was because of her hygiene, and do so in a way that doesn't make the situation worse?
I am at a complete loss on how to handle this situation that won't result in her being self-conscious and/or embarrassed and/or hurt, maybe to the point of not seeing me again.
A woman that I'm dating thinks that I treated her like a sex object because I didn't see to her needs the first time we had sex.
How do I tell her the only reason I didn't go down on her was because of her hygiene, and do so in a way that doesn't make the situation worse?
I am at a complete loss on how to handle this situation that won't result in her being self-conscious and/or embarrassed and/or hurt, maybe to the point of not seeing me again.
I'm a little confused too, on both sides. I can't say I've ever reacted this way if a guy hasn't happened to go down on me; were you attentive to her otherwise? It seems like a strange reaction.
How do you know she was unclean if you didn't get down in that area? Or did you, and then retreat (in which case, you'd think she'd have a clue)? Or are you talking about hair? There have been plenty of times when I've gone down on a dude and he didn't smell like roses, but I got over it. I've also occasionally suggested a shower for both of us. (Also, why didn't you just use your hands, if you didn't want to use your tongue?) If you're talking about a yeast infection or something, that's different...
But bottom line, I don't think this is something you can easily bring up without offending her. And if it was a problem before, it likely will be again...maybe it's not the right relationship for you.
posted by three_red_balloons at 11:27 PM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
How do you know she was unclean if you didn't get down in that area? Or did you, and then retreat (in which case, you'd think she'd have a clue)? Or are you talking about hair? There have been plenty of times when I've gone down on a dude and he didn't smell like roses, but I got over it. I've also occasionally suggested a shower for both of us. (Also, why didn't you just use your hands, if you didn't want to use your tongue?) If you're talking about a yeast infection or something, that's different...
But bottom line, I don't think this is something you can easily bring up without offending her. And if it was a problem before, it likely will be again...maybe it's not the right relationship for you.
posted by three_red_balloons at 11:27 PM on October 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Well, you can't go back in time and remedy the first encounter but you can listen to what the subtext is - maybe that you need to pay more attention to her needs, and assure her that she is a beautiful person to you, not just an object. Think about how you could show her this.
Perhaps: Invite her, in some romantic or intentional way, to allow you to tend to her body in a thoughtfully set up space in which all your attention is on her needs. Set aside several hours and experiment with, maybe, tantra techniques. Eg: How to give a real pussy massage If you are not comfortable with her hygiene, the set up for the intentional touching for her pleasure could involve a preparatory shower, and a fragrant natural oil for her whole body massage before you get to her pussy. Lots of compliments, lots of attention on her needs. Listen to her deeper need which is to take her bodily pleasure seriously and attend to it. ie, show, not tell.
posted by honey-barbara at 11:51 PM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
Perhaps: Invite her, in some romantic or intentional way, to allow you to tend to her body in a thoughtfully set up space in which all your attention is on her needs. Set aside several hours and experiment with, maybe, tantra techniques. Eg: How to give a real pussy massage If you are not comfortable with her hygiene, the set up for the intentional touching for her pleasure could involve a preparatory shower, and a fragrant natural oil for her whole body massage before you get to her pussy. Lots of compliments, lots of attention on her needs. Listen to her deeper need which is to take her bodily pleasure seriously and attend to it. ie, show, not tell.
posted by honey-barbara at 11:51 PM on October 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'd say this is an argument you shouldn't try to "win" I guess. Either you two will continue to see each other, and the suspicion will be dispelled by further experience, or you won't and it's not the worst thing that could happen since maybe there's not actually a great physical intimacy connection there anyway.
Nobody needs to do a sex act they don't want to in the moment, even if they might be happy to do it at another time, so I think browbeating you about it (if that's what's happening), is wrong, but if it's more like hurt feelings, you are not going to remedy that by saying "well, you weren't clean enough for oral sex," however you try to phrase it. I do agree the hygiene issue is a little unclear, since it could be anything from "hadn't bathed for several days" to "totally clean but just has a personal scent that you don't like," or "has pubic hair," and a ton of possibilities in between. For some of these items, I'd say that the relationship is probably just a non-starter mismatch that isn't going to work out, while others might be just temporary / situational.
If you actually really do feel like there's a strong connection there that's worth pursuing, I like honey-barbara's idea a lot. In no case do I think you would actually win anything by saying she has bad hygiene, but making sensuous bubble baths, sexy showers, body pampering stuff a part of your approach might be a win for both of you, if it's meant to be.
posted by taz at 12:34 AM on October 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nobody needs to do a sex act they don't want to in the moment, even if they might be happy to do it at another time, so I think browbeating you about it (if that's what's happening), is wrong, but if it's more like hurt feelings, you are not going to remedy that by saying "well, you weren't clean enough for oral sex," however you try to phrase it. I do agree the hygiene issue is a little unclear, since it could be anything from "hadn't bathed for several days" to "totally clean but just has a personal scent that you don't like," or "has pubic hair," and a ton of possibilities in between. For some of these items, I'd say that the relationship is probably just a non-starter mismatch that isn't going to work out, while others might be just temporary / situational.
If you actually really do feel like there's a strong connection there that's worth pursuing, I like honey-barbara's idea a lot. In no case do I think you would actually win anything by saying she has bad hygiene, but making sensuous bubble baths, sexy showers, body pampering stuff a part of your approach might be a win for both of you, if it's meant to be.
posted by taz at 12:34 AM on October 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Imma guess this is a Grooming issue vs a Hygiene issue - grooming is a lot of hair, which can be a bummer if you are not into that. Hygiene is smelly and unclean, something (gosh, I hope) would stop sex altogether.
Do I have it?
I think it's OK to request a partner trim up a bit if they want you to enjoy oral, too. It's logical.
I don't know why on earth you would date someone unclean, so we'll bypass that altogether!
If they are clean, but you just don't dig on the smell anyway... You are not romantically compatible with each other. This is a real thing, so please don't force it if you are compatible otherwise - it never ever works out longterm. Ever.
Google "pheromones." This person may not be for you.
There's also a deeper demeanor thing that one or both of you may be responding to. I'll tell you a small story....
Back in the day I was dating someone who on paper and up to full sexual intimacy seemed great. Then we had sex. I've never felt such visceral selfishness or maybe detachment during sex before. It was entirely out of joint with this person I was dating and "going slowly" with. We broke up, got back together, broke up almost immediately. I saw on FB he got married a few years later, and honestly, I wondered how she did not notice there was something off-tune about him in the bedroom. Honestly.
I also got married. We were instantly compatible physically, deep connection, and he touched my face the first time we kissed so tenderly... It's always like that, still. We have a child now, and a business together, huge stress! We get so frustrated! Every time he just reaches for my hand or hugs me, it feels cozy. If the child isn't around, sexy, too!
I guess what I'm expressing here is that for whatever reason, if you both are not feeling IT -- that's that.
If this is a grooming/hair thing - that's negotiable. There's always some little sexual incompatibility to negotiate or get beyond. If this is deeper (sounds like it in your case) then let it go.
Sometimes two nice people can't make it work. That happens. There is someone else for both of you :))
posted by jbenben at 1:04 AM on October 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
Do I have it?
I think it's OK to request a partner trim up a bit if they want you to enjoy oral, too. It's logical.
I don't know why on earth you would date someone unclean, so we'll bypass that altogether!
If they are clean, but you just don't dig on the smell anyway... You are not romantically compatible with each other. This is a real thing, so please don't force it if you are compatible otherwise - it never ever works out longterm. Ever.
Google "pheromones." This person may not be for you.
There's also a deeper demeanor thing that one or both of you may be responding to. I'll tell you a small story....
Back in the day I was dating someone who on paper and up to full sexual intimacy seemed great. Then we had sex. I've never felt such visceral selfishness or maybe detachment during sex before. It was entirely out of joint with this person I was dating and "going slowly" with. We broke up, got back together, broke up almost immediately. I saw on FB he got married a few years later, and honestly, I wondered how she did not notice there was something off-tune about him in the bedroom. Honestly.
I also got married. We were instantly compatible physically, deep connection, and he touched my face the first time we kissed so tenderly... It's always like that, still. We have a child now, and a business together, huge stress! We get so frustrated! Every time he just reaches for my hand or hugs me, it feels cozy. If the child isn't around, sexy, too!
I guess what I'm expressing here is that for whatever reason, if you both are not feeling IT -- that's that.
If this is a grooming/hair thing - that's negotiable. There's always some little sexual incompatibility to negotiate or get beyond. If this is deeper (sounds like it in your case) then let it go.
Sometimes two nice people can't make it work. That happens. There is someone else for both of you :))
posted by jbenben at 1:04 AM on October 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
You didn't go down on her, but did you "see to her needs" in other ways? Did you at least manually attend to her, if not orally?
I agree with those who have expressed surprise that you would shtup someone who had legitimately bad hygiene--I mean, why would you stick your dick in an area that was dirty and smelly??
If you expected her to be shaved and she wasn't, please disabuse yourself of the notion that that has anything to do with hygiene. This preference (and that's all it is, a preference!) is relatively new in the culture, was manufactured by porn, has nothing to do with hygiene and very often is a double standard. If you ask her to shave, I certainly hope you do so yourself if you expect her to go down on you.
But honestly, I just don't think this will work. You fundamentally dislike her smell and/or hair, and that's a deep, deep insult. I wouldn't so much as remain casual acquaintances with someone if they expressed such a thing to me. If she told you your wang wasn't really big enough for her, and could you please improve it before having sex again, how would you feel?
Best let this one go, let her find someone who appreciates her the way she is rather than getting off inside her body while disdaining her.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 2:07 AM on October 3, 2015 [18 favorites]
I agree with those who have expressed surprise that you would shtup someone who had legitimately bad hygiene--I mean, why would you stick your dick in an area that was dirty and smelly??
If you expected her to be shaved and she wasn't, please disabuse yourself of the notion that that has anything to do with hygiene. This preference (and that's all it is, a preference!) is relatively new in the culture, was manufactured by porn, has nothing to do with hygiene and very often is a double standard. If you ask her to shave, I certainly hope you do so yourself if you expect her to go down on you.
But honestly, I just don't think this will work. You fundamentally dislike her smell and/or hair, and that's a deep, deep insult. I wouldn't so much as remain casual acquaintances with someone if they expressed such a thing to me. If she told you your wang wasn't really big enough for her, and could you please improve it before having sex again, how would you feel?
Best let this one go, let her find someone who appreciates her the way she is rather than getting off inside her body while disdaining her.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 2:07 AM on October 3, 2015 [18 favorites]
Did she specifically say the issue was that you didn't go down on her or that you didn't attend to her needs? Because the 2 are not the same thing. Oral is not compulsory, making sure she gets off too, should be.
If you came before her, there are other ways to finish her off than going down on her but there is no good way to tell someone so early in the relationship that you wont go down on her because of her hygiene. And that's even if her hygiene is actually a problem and its not just that you don't like her personal fragrance or grooming (I find it hard to believe any woman would let a man into her bed if she hadn't showered before the date)
posted by missmagenta at 2:39 AM on October 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
If you came before her, there are other ways to finish her off than going down on her but there is no good way to tell someone so early in the relationship that you wont go down on her because of her hygiene. And that's even if her hygiene is actually a problem and its not just that you don't like her personal fragrance or grooming (I find it hard to believe any woman would let a man into her bed if she hadn't showered before the date)
posted by missmagenta at 2:39 AM on October 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
Ask her what she likes. Ask her to show you what she likes. If you didn't see to her needs then that can be more than just going down on her. Assuming that she isn't nasty and she just had a slightly stronger smell than you were ready for, communication can easily fix this.
A good way to get out of oral is to plead a stuffy nose. You can't use your mouth if your nose isn't working. You have to be able to breath. But, you have to do other things or you aren't doing your job as a lover. You can also tell her that you have shower/bath fantasies and take care of things in water.
posted by myselfasme at 8:40 AM on October 3, 2015
A good way to get out of oral is to plead a stuffy nose. You can't use your mouth if your nose isn't working. You have to be able to breath. But, you have to do other things or you aren't doing your job as a lover. You can also tell her that you have shower/bath fantasies and take care of things in water.
posted by myselfasme at 8:40 AM on October 3, 2015
I think instead of cleverly "tricking" her into cleanliness, you should be forward with her and tell her. Even if she is offended or embarassed and never wants to see you again, you will have done her a favor.
If the tables were turned, wouldn't you want to know?
posted by atinna at 9:05 AM on October 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
If the tables were turned, wouldn't you want to know?
posted by atinna at 9:05 AM on October 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Scent can be extremely variable day to day, and can be dependent on many factors including hydration, diet, hormones, medications, etc. It's entirely possible to be clean yet still have an odor that some may find off-putting.
But I love how some commenters jump to "too dirty to fuck."
posted by sageleaf at 9:28 AM on October 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
But I love how some commenters jump to "too dirty to fuck."
posted by sageleaf at 9:28 AM on October 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Vaginal hygiene is actually fairly simple: the vagina cleans itself and maintains its own pH balance.
So, I'm not sure what you mean by hygiene issue. There really isn't much to do to keep a vagina clean aside from respect it by letting it do is thing, wipe front to back and pay attention if something gets out of wack.
So, if it smells like feces, she has an issue then don't put your dick in it or your mouth on it.
Discharge from vaginas is completely normal and can smell strange and still be completely healthy. In fact during sex there should be discharge because that's lube and yay. But some discharge is bad, and even women sometimes can't tell the difference. Many women are uncomfortable with their smells. You probobly can't tell if it is bad hygiene unless you have some serious experience in the area.
If you fear she has some sort of STD you need to be able to have a blunt conversation for your safety.
You can also purchase dental dams that come in flavors for your enjoyment and protection.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:16 PM on October 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
So, I'm not sure what you mean by hygiene issue. There really isn't much to do to keep a vagina clean aside from respect it by letting it do is thing, wipe front to back and pay attention if something gets out of wack.
So, if it smells like feces, she has an issue then don't put your dick in it or your mouth on it.
Discharge from vaginas is completely normal and can smell strange and still be completely healthy. In fact during sex there should be discharge because that's lube and yay. But some discharge is bad, and even women sometimes can't tell the difference. Many women are uncomfortable with their smells. You probobly can't tell if it is bad hygiene unless you have some serious experience in the area.
If you fear she has some sort of STD you need to be able to have a blunt conversation for your safety.
You can also purchase dental dams that come in flavors for your enjoyment and protection.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:16 PM on October 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I don't know why on earth you would date someone unclean, so we'll bypass that altogether!
Yeah, because if someone has body odor issues on one particular day, they are undateable... not. What a bizarre overreaction.
Pussies vary A LOT in odor level and odor pleasantness, from woman to woman and throughout the month. Add in extra funk from a hot, sweat-filled day, and, well, sometimes going face-to-face with Madamoiselle Vagina isn't always a great thing. And there's NEVER a good way to say to your date or longtime SO, "Honey, I'd totes go down on you if you'd wash that funk away first."
Hell, after a long, hot day I've gotten self-conscious when a girl has decided to go down on me. Genitals can stink, and not because they're "dirty" or bad or diseased, but because moisture + nutrients* + heat + time = fungal growth. (* Genital sweat contains lots of oil.)
I don't think that moment can be easily addressed, but going forward you can prove yourself a caring lover... or leave her behind if she wants to judge you on one single lovemaking session.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:57 PM on October 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, because if someone has body odor issues on one particular day, they are undateable... not. What a bizarre overreaction.
Pussies vary A LOT in odor level and odor pleasantness, from woman to woman and throughout the month. Add in extra funk from a hot, sweat-filled day, and, well, sometimes going face-to-face with Madamoiselle Vagina isn't always a great thing. And there's NEVER a good way to say to your date or longtime SO, "Honey, I'd totes go down on you if you'd wash that funk away first."
Hell, after a long, hot day I've gotten self-conscious when a girl has decided to go down on me. Genitals can stink, and not because they're "dirty" or bad or diseased, but because moisture + nutrients* + heat + time = fungal growth. (* Genital sweat contains lots of oil.)
I don't think that moment can be easily addressed, but going forward you can prove yourself a caring lover... or leave her behind if she wants to judge you on one single lovemaking session.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:57 PM on October 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: What IAmBroom said exactly. I've had it vary day by day and I'm (and I hate this about myself) entirely too sensitive to some smells. I was early in my last relationship when like the third time doing this (so the first two times were great, no problems!), I had to shortly stop and just say I'm sorry I can't right now. I wish I'd talked about it more with her at the time because I actually felt incredibly awkward from then on for months afterward.
She was definitely not unclean, but something was off as far as my internal unconscious radar/control was concerned.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:54 PM on October 3, 2015
She was definitely not unclean, but something was off as far as my internal unconscious radar/control was concerned.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:54 PM on October 3, 2015
Best answer: Please clarify. What exactly was distasteful to you? Was it her body scent, hair, sweat, toilet paper crumbs, feces, a smelly body perfume, a tampon string? Did she smell sick?
Major possibilities:
+ You don't like her pheromones. Break up — you're incompatible.
+ You are sensitive to odors and she has a strong scent. Or maybe she really doesn't bathe often, or wipes "the wrong way." Customs vary. Explain this gently, posing it as your problem, and start taking showers together.
+ You expect unrealistic looks and smells. You are squeamish about the animal rawness of bodies. Educate yourself.
+ She is unwell. Yeast infection or bacterial vaginosis? STD maybe, but unlikely. Suggest a doctor, tell her she's sexy as fuck, and say you're ready to soup her, snug her and fingerfuck her until she's all healed up (hey, gloves!) Lick lick lick.
+ Your definitions of "her needs" and "mutually satisfying sex" are different. Time to use your words! Try a new tact. Consider that "seeing to her needs" is a rather unenthusiastic phrase.
+ You think oral sex is boring, you're not very good at it, or you're a selfish lover using "hygiene" as an excuse. Buck up, buddy. You know it's worth a lot to your partner, so if you take it off the table you should offer a substitute of equal emotional value. Ask HER what that might be. Pro tip: Fingers, toys, creativity. Don't expect oral sex back.
Here's a script.
"Hon, can we have a small talk? I was thinking about our sexual encounter the other day, and I realized we may have some misunderstandings. I hear you saying that you don't feel satisfied... and I hate that! You're a total babe and I love spending time with you. I want you to feel attended to and cared for in ways that make *you* feel good. It seems like a big part of that is oral sex, is that right?"
(LISTEN)
"Well, I really wanted to go down on you last time. I'm nervous to tell you this, but (REASON YOU DIDN'T). I'm so sorry you felt neglected and I want to reassure you next time we have sex, I'm going to put your needs first and (OFFER SOLUTION)."
(KEEP LISTENING. AFFIRM THAT YOU FIND HER WILDLY ATTRACTIVE. SOLVE IT TOGETHER.)
posted by fritillary at 5:57 PM on October 4, 2015
Major possibilities:
+ You don't like her pheromones. Break up — you're incompatible.
+ You are sensitive to odors and she has a strong scent. Or maybe she really doesn't bathe often, or wipes "the wrong way." Customs vary. Explain this gently, posing it as your problem, and start taking showers together.
+ You expect unrealistic looks and smells. You are squeamish about the animal rawness of bodies. Educate yourself.
+ She is unwell. Yeast infection or bacterial vaginosis? STD maybe, but unlikely. Suggest a doctor, tell her she's sexy as fuck, and say you're ready to soup her, snug her and fingerfuck her until she's all healed up (hey, gloves!) Lick lick lick.
+ Your definitions of "her needs" and "mutually satisfying sex" are different. Time to use your words! Try a new tact. Consider that "seeing to her needs" is a rather unenthusiastic phrase.
+ You think oral sex is boring, you're not very good at it, or you're a selfish lover using "hygiene" as an excuse. Buck up, buddy. You know it's worth a lot to your partner, so if you take it off the table you should offer a substitute of equal emotional value. Ask HER what that might be. Pro tip: Fingers, toys, creativity. Don't expect oral sex back.
Here's a script.
"Hon, can we have a small talk? I was thinking about our sexual encounter the other day, and I realized we may have some misunderstandings. I hear you saying that you don't feel satisfied... and I hate that! You're a total babe and I love spending time with you. I want you to feel attended to and cared for in ways that make *you* feel good. It seems like a big part of that is oral sex, is that right?"
(LISTEN)
"Well, I really wanted to go down on you last time. I'm nervous to tell you this, but (REASON YOU DIDN'T). I'm so sorry you felt neglected and I want to reassure you next time we have sex, I'm going to put your needs first and (OFFER SOLUTION)."
(KEEP LISTENING. AFFIRM THAT YOU FIND HER WILDLY ATTRACTIVE. SOLVE IT TOGETHER.)
posted by fritillary at 5:57 PM on October 4, 2015
Best answer: Please clarify. What exactly was distasteful to you?
FFS, why SHOULD the OP reveal to us precisely what was distasteful? This is starting to sound like some rubbernecking adventure in gross-out stories.
You mentioned several things that could be wrong. All of them basically boil down to: not the best day for the date's genital perfumery. Nuff said.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:58 PM on October 6, 2015
FFS, why SHOULD the OP reveal to us precisely what was distasteful? This is starting to sound like some rubbernecking adventure in gross-out stories.
You mentioned several things that could be wrong. All of them basically boil down to: not the best day for the date's genital perfumery. Nuff said.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:58 PM on October 6, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
Does she really have a hygiene issue, that is, do you have realistic expectations of what a woman's vagina should look/smell like?
posted by NatalieWood at 11:22 PM on October 2, 2015 [27 favorites]