Why do Tom Petty songs seem not to go anywhere?
September 28, 2015 11:06 AM Subscribe
Listening to Tom Petty's songs, I've always gotten the sensation that they don't go anywhere -- almost as if an engine is turned on, but the car isn't put into gear and therefore doesn't move. What is it about the tunes that's causing this sensation?
The music is inoffensive pop rock, but even his songs that are nominally going places (e.g. "Running Down A Dream") feel to me like they're running in place. Makes it difficult to listen to, for me at least, though that is probably as much to do with how badly overplayed classic rock is.
I hasten to add that Tom Petty seems like a nice guy, and I've nothing against him or his band personally. :) And also, this is not a sensation I get from classic rock as a genre -- just him.
The music is inoffensive pop rock, but even his songs that are nominally going places (e.g. "Running Down A Dream") feel to me like they're running in place. Makes it difficult to listen to, for me at least, though that is probably as much to do with how badly overplayed classic rock is.
I hasten to add that Tom Petty seems like a nice guy, and I've nothing against him or his band personally. :) And also, this is not a sensation I get from classic rock as a genre -- just him.
Best answer: Could be the key he's using, or the lack of many key changes/modulation - although "Into the Great Wide Open" has a really obvious one, for the last time the chorus is sung.
His little stories are pretty beginning/middle/end though, fit into one verse - ala Free Falling.
His tempo is sometimes suuuuuper sloooooooow, if you think about it. He's almost talk singing on some of these songs. Running Down a Dream is maybe 120 bpm? Which is high for him. Is it also in 4x4?
Seems like Petty is a no-nonsense kinda guy. Straight up storyteller. No fancy stuff. Just the facts, ma'am.
Maybe for a comparison of another simple arrangement is, "X"'s, Johnny Ht and Run Pauline, which doesn't tell you what's happening via step 1, step 2, but is severely explicit, with still being, I dunno, poetic. Could you imagine Tom Petty doing a version of the same event? Guuuugh.
posted by alex_skazat at 11:19 AM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
His little stories are pretty beginning/middle/end though, fit into one verse - ala Free Falling.
His tempo is sometimes suuuuuper sloooooooow, if you think about it. He's almost talk singing on some of these songs. Running Down a Dream is maybe 120 bpm? Which is high for him. Is it also in 4x4?
Seems like Petty is a no-nonsense kinda guy. Straight up storyteller. No fancy stuff. Just the facts, ma'am.
Maybe for a comparison of another simple arrangement is, "X"'s, Johnny Ht and Run Pauline, which doesn't tell you what's happening via step 1, step 2, but is severely explicit, with still being, I dunno, poetic. Could you imagine Tom Petty doing a version of the same event? Guuuugh.
posted by alex_skazat at 11:19 AM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
A number of Tom Petty songs lack a proper bridge, and barely go beyond one verse + chorus. This might contribute to your "running in place" feeling.
I don't remember if "Running Down a Dream" is one of these, but another Petty example is "Breakdown."
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:21 AM on September 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
I don't remember if "Running Down a Dream" is one of these, but another Petty example is "Breakdown."
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:21 AM on September 28, 2015 [9 favorites]
Best answer: There's a lot of what I think of as "motoring" to the Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers songs I know, that I think may be part of the aesthetic you're keying in on though it's something I more or less like about them. Things that make them feel a little more static and staying-in-one-place:
- Not a ton of dynamics in the song structure. They don't tend to go quiet LOUD quiet LOUD the way e.g. the Pixies' songs do; you tend to get a pretty steady level of intensity and volume across a lot of these songs, where the dynamic changes are more on the level of "let's have a bit more guitar and hit the crash cymbals during the chorus" or the occasional breakdown as a relatively quiet moment two thirds of the way through. Sometimes a bit of an incremental build intro (American Girl eases in) but not usually big shocker intros or outros, and a lot of fadeouts instead of big finishes on tracks.
- Very steady rhythm section in general. A lot of meat-and-potatoes kick-and-snare backbeat rock rhythms that stay pretty steady in Heartbreakers songs.
- Not a lot of big harmonically different bridges. And not always a big harmonic difference even between the verses an the choruses. So you don't get jarred out of one groove and into another too often; you can sort of settle into a song and just ride along with it.
Beyond that, the Heartbreakers also just had a really consistent sound in general, which means the accretion of these qualities across their whole set of work probably emphasizes this feeling about any given song more than if we were talking about a one-off from a band with a more varied aesthetic.
I think it's interesting to compare this actually to Petty's solo Wildflowers album, which I think bucked some of these things considerably at times—more harmonically shifting bridges, a little more dynamics (mostly because a lot of the album was willing to be quieter than typical Heartbreakers tracks and so the quiet vs. loud distinction could come out), a little more of a doting/careful intro and outro arrangement vs. the steady rock and roll approach of the band.
posted by cortex at 11:26 AM on September 28, 2015 [11 favorites]
- Not a ton of dynamics in the song structure. They don't tend to go quiet LOUD quiet LOUD the way e.g. the Pixies' songs do; you tend to get a pretty steady level of intensity and volume across a lot of these songs, where the dynamic changes are more on the level of "let's have a bit more guitar and hit the crash cymbals during the chorus" or the occasional breakdown as a relatively quiet moment two thirds of the way through. Sometimes a bit of an incremental build intro (American Girl eases in) but not usually big shocker intros or outros, and a lot of fadeouts instead of big finishes on tracks.
- Very steady rhythm section in general. A lot of meat-and-potatoes kick-and-snare backbeat rock rhythms that stay pretty steady in Heartbreakers songs.
- Not a lot of big harmonically different bridges. And not always a big harmonic difference even between the verses an the choruses. So you don't get jarred out of one groove and into another too often; you can sort of settle into a song and just ride along with it.
Beyond that, the Heartbreakers also just had a really consistent sound in general, which means the accretion of these qualities across their whole set of work probably emphasizes this feeling about any given song more than if we were talking about a one-off from a band with a more varied aesthetic.
I think it's interesting to compare this actually to Petty's solo Wildflowers album, which I think bucked some of these things considerably at times—more harmonically shifting bridges, a little more dynamics (mostly because a lot of the album was willing to be quieter than typical Heartbreakers tracks and so the quiet vs. loud distinction could come out), a little more of a doting/careful intro and outro arrangement vs. the steady rock and roll approach of the band.
posted by cortex at 11:26 AM on September 28, 2015 [11 favorites]
I was wondering if it's the lack of a bridge, too. OP, does Petty's breakout hit Refugee give you this impression, too? It has a conventional bridge.......
posted by thelonius at 11:27 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 11:27 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I kinda know what you mean, but in my case it's a plus - too many songs have rather predictable "endings" to an oversimplified "storyline".
Petty is more of a paint-a-picture artist, in some ways. He's not afraid to make a song about feelings, instead of events emblematic of feelings.
Example: "Good Enough". There's no storyline at all, simply an image of a girl, and the vague thing about her that he likes. His SO? Crush? Is he justifying her to his mother who hates her, or losing her to another guy? Dunno.
She was hell on her mama
Impossible to please
She wore out her daddy
Got the best of me
And there's somethin' about her
That only I can see
And that's good enough
You're barefoot in the grass
And you're chewin' sugarcane
You got a little buzz on
You're kissin' in the rain
Edit: obligatory Youtube link.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:31 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Petty is more of a paint-a-picture artist, in some ways. He's not afraid to make a song about feelings, instead of events emblematic of feelings.
Example: "Good Enough". There's no storyline at all, simply an image of a girl, and the vague thing about her that he likes. His SO? Crush? Is he justifying her to his mother who hates her, or losing her to another guy? Dunno.
She was hell on her mama
Impossible to please
She wore out her daddy
Got the best of me
And there's somethin' about her
That only I can see
And that's good enough
You're barefoot in the grass
And you're chewin' sugarcane
You got a little buzz on
You're kissin' in the rain
Edit: obligatory Youtube link.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:31 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I find this a more recent phenomenon. 70's Tom Petty is more straight-up, Chuck Berry style rock and roll. Wildflowers was really drifty imo.
posted by irisclara at 11:43 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by irisclara at 11:43 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yep, Wildflowers demonstrates a bit more (or different) sonic range, in my opinion. Worth listening to before writing Petty off altogether.
posted by chicainthecity at 11:44 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by chicainthecity at 11:44 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got turned on to Petty from his Sirius/XM radio show in the early Oughts - as you say, early Petty (from my HS days) is a more straightforward rocknroller. But his show proved to me his depth, and I gave his more recent stuff a listen... becomign a fan.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:39 PM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by IAmBroom at 12:39 PM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, all -- you've given me some good lines of inquiry, which I was hoping for.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:41 PM on September 28, 2015
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:41 PM on September 28, 2015
Because many of them are chant songs. A chant song is a song with one repeating sequence of chords, rather than having the differentiation of a chorus and/or a bridge.
Running Down a Dream is a chant song. Free Fallin is a chant song. Into the Great Wide Open is too.
Other chant songs you may know:
Losing My Religion-REM
Brick-Ben Folds Five
Hey Ya!-Outkast
Chant songs are EVERYWHERE if you look for them.
posted by laconic titan at 3:40 PM on September 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Running Down a Dream is a chant song. Free Fallin is a chant song. Into the Great Wide Open is too.
Other chant songs you may know:
Losing My Religion-REM
Brick-Ben Folds Five
Hey Ya!-Outkast
Chant songs are EVERYWHERE if you look for them.
posted by laconic titan at 3:40 PM on September 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Tiny clarification - "Brick" wouldn't count as a chart song, having different chord sequences for verse, chorus and middle eight. The other two do for sure though.
posted by ominous_paws at 11:06 PM on September 28, 2015
posted by ominous_paws at 11:06 PM on September 28, 2015
I just read his biography that's coming out soon. A lot of his song writing is based on a fairly aimless, unsettled Florida upbringing, and tracks like "Don't Come Around Here No More" [SLYT] reflect that. So I would agree that they don't really go anywhere, but neither did a lot of the people that Petty grew up with.
Also, cortex wrote "Beyond that, the Heartbreakers also just had a really consistent sound in general…"which I think is a good point. The band roster didn't have that many changes over the years, and the music and lyrics were written by the same guys for decades.
(Disclosure: I really like Petty & the Heartbreakers.)
posted by wenestvedt at 6:09 AM on September 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, cortex wrote "Beyond that, the Heartbreakers also just had a really consistent sound in general…"which I think is a good point. The band roster didn't have that many changes over the years, and the music and lyrics were written by the same guys for decades.
(Disclosure: I really like Petty & the Heartbreakers.)
posted by wenestvedt at 6:09 AM on September 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
What are some examples of songs that "go", by your definition?
Maybe it's big dramatic hooks you're looking for?
posted by justcorbly at 11:15 AM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]