Moorcock's Eternal Champion: 2 brothers (Gods?) freed from captivity
September 27, 2015 2:57 PM Subscribe
In one of Michael Moorcock's books dealing with some aspect of the Eternal Champion, 2 other-wordly beings - Gods? Demigods? Demons? - are freed from captivity after thousands of years or longer. One of the book's heroes tells them that unless they help the heroes, the next time these beings need help, everyone will know that they have a habit of not showing gratitude to those who have helped them in the past. Which book was this in, around what page, and what was the name of the brothers?
I'm trying to figure out which series and book this happened in - I read most of Moorcock's Eternal Champion series, but it was decades ago. As I remember it, the main hero and a companion helped two brothers who were trapped in something - maybe a jewel or a cave? - escape, and these two brothers started cavorting across the universe, happy to be free, and feeling no desire to do some small favor that the heroes were hoping for in return. Then the hero's companion, probably a mystic or magician of some kind, told the brothers that if they didn't do the small favor, then someday - maybe 50,000 years from now - when the brothers needed help again, nobody would come to their aid, due to their actions now, and possibly due to the companion spreading word of those actions. The brothers then did the favor, though they claimed it was not because of the threat, but just on a whim.
I think that this happened around the time of "The Conjunction of a Million Spheres". I think it was a very quick scene, maybe a few pages, but the concept of the brothers' actions possibly having repercussions 50,000 years later really struck me and is something I've been thinking about lately.
An online link would be great, but enough info so I can find the passages in the correct book would be great too. Note, I may be wrong about the two being brothers.
I'm trying to figure out which series and book this happened in - I read most of Moorcock's Eternal Champion series, but it was decades ago. As I remember it, the main hero and a companion helped two brothers who were trapped in something - maybe a jewel or a cave? - escape, and these two brothers started cavorting across the universe, happy to be free, and feeling no desire to do some small favor that the heroes were hoping for in return. Then the hero's companion, probably a mystic or magician of some kind, told the brothers that if they didn't do the small favor, then someday - maybe 50,000 years from now - when the brothers needed help again, nobody would come to their aid, due to their actions now, and possibly due to the companion spreading word of those actions. The brothers then did the favor, though they claimed it was not because of the threat, but just on a whim.
I think that this happened around the time of "The Conjunction of a Million Spheres". I think it was a very quick scene, maybe a few pages, but the concept of the brothers' actions possibly having repercussions 50,000 years later really struck me and is something I've been thinking about lately.
An online link would be great, but enough info so I can find the passages in the correct book would be great too. Note, I may be wrong about the two being brothers.
Best answer: It would be just before the climax of the third book in the first Corum trilogy, The King of Swords. Sorry, my Moorcock bibliography skills aren't what my teenage self would wish....
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:27 PM on September 27, 2015
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:27 PM on September 27, 2015
It's not Kwll and Rhynn, and it's not Gog and Magog from Sailor on the Seas of Fate. The line does sound like something Rackhir the Red Archer might have said in "To Rescue Tanelorn."
posted by infinitewindow at 3:34 PM on September 27, 2015
posted by infinitewindow at 3:34 PM on September 27, 2015
Have you looked at the multiverse.org/wiki?
posted by infinitewindow at 3:42 PM on September 27, 2015
posted by infinitewindow at 3:42 PM on September 27, 2015
Response by poster: I think GenjiandProust may be right - Kwll and Rhynn. From Wikipedia:
"Corum discovers one of the 'Lost Gods', the being Kwll, who is imprisoned and cannot be freed until whole. Corum offers Kwll his hand, on the condition that he aid them against Mabelode. Kwll accepts the terms, but reneges on the bargain until persuaded to assist. Corum is also stripped of his artificial eye, which belongs to Rhynn..."
posted by mistersix at 3:43 PM on September 27, 2015
"Corum discovers one of the 'Lost Gods', the being Kwll, who is imprisoned and cannot be freed until whole. Corum offers Kwll his hand, on the condition that he aid them against Mabelode. Kwll accepts the terms, but reneges on the bargain until persuaded to assist. Corum is also stripped of his artificial eye, which belongs to Rhynn..."
posted by mistersix at 3:43 PM on September 27, 2015
Yeah, but Kwll and Rhynn were never seen reunited. Kwll takes the hand, says " I made no bargain," then magicks Corum & Co back to Corum's castle. He has his final encounter with the Nhadragh sorcerer and Glandyth-a-Krae, and the Wading God aka Rhynn cleans up the Mabden stragglers. Kwll reappears and says "We killed all the gods of Law and Chaos for you. Worship their qualities in yourself if that's what you like. We don't care."
That last part makes me think they would not give a shit about their reputations 50K years in the future.
Edit to comment above: Agak and Gagak, not Gog and Magog.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:52 PM on September 27, 2015
That last part makes me think they would not give a shit about their reputations 50K years in the future.
Edit to comment above: Agak and Gagak, not Gog and Magog.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:52 PM on September 27, 2015
My initial (probably wrong) thought was something with Elric and Moonglum. iirc Moonglum could be very persuasive . But I can't remember this specific story.
posted by Glinn at 5:44 PM on September 27, 2015
posted by Glinn at 5:44 PM on September 27, 2015
Response by poster: I may have misremembered a bit and described things wrong, so I won't know what the correct answer is until I find the scenes with Kwll and Rhynn and see if they jog my memory. But thanks for the pointers, I'll update this question if it's still open when I find my copy of King of Swords and read the relevant parts.
posted by mistersix at 1:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mistersix at 1:56 AM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
If it does close, and you think of it, I'd like a me ail, just for curiosity....
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:00 AM on October 2, 2015
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:00 AM on October 2, 2015
Best answer: Here's a relevant passage from The King of the Swords.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:41 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
“And I am whole." Kwll's strange voice had not changed in tone, but his jeweled body glowed the brighter and he stretched his four legs and all his four arms and he sighed with pleasure. "Whole."Good call GenjiandProust!
In one of his hands the Lost God held his brother's eye and he held it so that it shone in the blue light from the city.
"And free," he said. "Soon, brother, we shall range again the Million Spheres as we always ranged before our fight—in joy and in delight at all the variety of things. We two are the only beings who really know pleasure! I must find you brother!"
"The bargain," said Corum insistently, ignoring Jhary. "You told me you would help me, Kwll."
"Mortal, I make no bargains, I obey no laws save the one of which you have already learned.”
[...]
"You are unjust, Kwll!"
"Justice?" Kwll shook with laughter. "What is that?"
Corum poised himself to spring at the Lost God, but Jhary held him back. The dandy said, "If you train a dog to fetch your quarry for you, Kwll, you reward it, do you not? Then, if you need it, it will fetch for you again."
Kwll spun round on his four legs, his faceted eyes glittering. "But if it will not, then one trains a new dog."
"I am immortal," Jhary said. "And I will make it my business to warn all the other dogs that there is nought to be gained from running the Lost Gods' errands ..."
"I have no further need of dogs."
"Have you not? Even you cannot anticipate what will come about after the Conjunction of the Million Spheres.”
[...]
“Then I will help you." Kwll flung back his jeweled head and laughed so that even Tanelorn seemed to shake with his mirth. "It will save me time, I think.”
posted by infinitewindow at 5:41 PM on October 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by GenjiandProust at 3:18 PM on September 27, 2015