Ergo sumbitch

December 6, 2005 3:21 PM

I unwisely coasted through college, and here I sit, one year later, Communication degree and 2.8 GPA, grinding it out from menial job to menial job. I'm not here to make excuses, but rather to make up for past mistakes, as I finally discovered that inner drive that's pushing for me to pursue a career in Law. Other than acing the LSATs and getting some law firm internships under my belt, what other sorts of steps can I take to buffer my standing before applying to Law school?
posted by Mach3avelli to education (16 comments total)

There are a lot of people who talk about this phenomenon, known as "splitting" where you get less than a 3.0 undergrad but do fairly well at the LSAT on this site. They seem to have lots of ideas on how to get into the law school of your choice, but who knows how accurate they are, they're in the same boat as you. Nonetheless, I'd start there.
posted by allen.spaulding at 3:23 PM on December 6, 2005

I ended up grinding away for about ten years (not because it took that long to undo the damage to my undergraduate coasting, just because I was still coasting), then earned a 3.8 in a Legal Administration program at a real, accredited undergraduate institution (not a correspondence school or community college), which provided me with excellent legal contacts who wrote me letters of recommendation. I also worked as a paralegal for a year. Also I did really well on my LSATs.

So you could take some intermediary classes in legal topics to show you have an aptitude and ability to do well. Depending on where you want to go and what you want to do, you could also do a lot of community volunteer work. Law schools like that shit. Or travel abroad. They like that shit, too.
posted by jennyb at 3:37 PM on December 6, 2005

Also, consider what you want to do with your law degree. From talking to friends in law school, it seems like going to a top law school is pretty crucial if you want a position in a fancy law firm (great pay, but years of sixty to eighty hour weeks), but less important if you want to work for the DA or public defender's office (less pay, saner work schedule). I'd guess it's somewhere in the middle if you want to work as, say, a lawyer for a corporation. So consider what your goal is with the law degree, what you need to do to get there, and what kind of loans or other financial aid you need to make that happen.
posted by clarahamster at 3:41 PM on December 6, 2005

You have a common misconception. Law firm internships, or any sort of legal experience for that matter, are largely irrelevant to law school admissions offices. Aside from the LSAT/GPA quals, they want to see evidence of writing ability, uniqueness, and diversity of experience. It's better to have been a professional skydiver than a paralegal.

The only reason to take one of these jobs is to figure out whether you want to go to law school in the first place, but it seems you have already made that step. Good luck and be prepared to explain in your personal statement what led you to that decision and what you have learned since your undergrad experience.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 4:30 PM on December 6, 2005

Time to get masters in communications or perhaps another undergrad degree in a different major. This time ace it. It doesn't really matter so much where you do it, just prove you can. Either that or head to someplace like Thomas M. Cooley Law School, they take anyone and then weed out the unsuitables in the first year. However, due to their less than stellar reputation (although it is improving) you may find yourself toiling away in menial legal jobs unless you do really, really well there. It would be better to get some good grades under your belt and then get into a better law school which will provide more opportunities to you upon graduation.
posted by caddis at 4:45 PM on December 6, 2005

Watch the Masters, though: law schools (most of 'em) don't consider applicants' grad school grades. I'd concentrate on doing well on the LSAT.
posted by electric_counterpoint at 5:21 PM on December 6, 2005

Law firm internships, or any sort of legal experience for that matter, are largely irrelevant to law school admissions offices.

That can't be strictly true; you're going to need letters of recommendation, aren't you? Well, how are you going to get one from a lawyer if you don't spend some time with a lawyer in a working setting?

I think some 'extracurriculars' that showed you'd put some thought into the variety of experiences a lawyer can have would serve you pretty well. Spend time at a law firm, sure; but also check out what you might be able to contribute at a legal aid organization; try to wangle a place in a judge's office to see what a judge's day is like; et cetera. Do something public-service related that requires a substantial commitment of hours; show that your heart is in the right place.

Whatever you do, don't refuse an offer from a law school on the grounds that you'd rather wait for a better offer next year. You're already not an attractive candidate, because your academic record calls your ability to buckle down and focus during the long hours of law school book work into question. If you give off the reek of "doing this for the wrong reasons" also, you're sunk.

I speak as someone who occasionally interviews applicants to med school, which is a similar process.
posted by ikkyu2 at 6:14 PM on December 6, 2005

That can't be strictly true; you're going to need letters of recommendation, aren't you? Well, how are you going to get one from a lawyer if you don't spend some time with a lawyer in a working setting?

Most law schools prefer (and some require) letters from undergraduate professors. For those who had been out of school for a few years, as I had been, a letter from my boss replaced one of the professor letters. Nobody requires, or prefers, that you get one from a lawyer.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 6:18 PM on December 6, 2005

Also, law school applicants do not interview for admission. The process is not similar.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 6:19 PM on December 6, 2005

I took your exact route, but my grades were worse. I then took more undergrad courses and got a series of A's for two semesters. I got into grad school and got a masters. After working for three years, I applied to 11 law schools and got into 1. I'm a working lawyer, partner track, at a boutique firm based on a good job I did as a law clerk. Kick ass at law school grades and you'll do fine. Working in a law office probably won't help.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:01 PM on December 6, 2005

How did you perform on the LSAT?
posted by Mach3avelli at 9:37 PM on December 6, 2005

Additional courses, even at a community college, can raise your GPA, demonstrate your motivation, bag an instructor or two who can give you a good recommendation, and possibly even help a bit with law school (history or political science courses might be best). Plus they'll give you some specifics to put into your application essay.

Also, keep in mind that law schools come in all flavors, and excellent LSATs plus a 2.8 GPA will certainly get you into one (middle of the pack, I'd guess). From there, it's up to you to get good grades and finish near the top of the class.

[You don't mention looking on Amazon or elsewhere for books relevant to getting into law school; there definitely are some.]
posted by WestCoaster at 9:39 PM on December 6, 2005

All of this conjecture really depends on the law school you're applying to...find a few you're interested in and check there admission standards. Some might require letters of reference, but most of the ones I looked at didn't and if they did, it was nominal (I'm in Canada, but I got into a few American law schools, as well). One important factor to look at is the ratio of GPA to LSAT scores...I've seen a few schools that weighted LSAT over GPA and the reverse. Also, some schools average your LSAT scores while others will only take your top score (a nice perk if you don't do so well the first time). Anyways, the moral of the story is that every law school is different...take a look at their websites to find out what they're looking for.

Taking some extra course might help to bolster your GPA...I think a lot of the time, law schools will look at your last X number of credits. If you do better on some of these new courses, those marks might displace some of the earlier, lower marks.

Good luck, by the way.
posted by johnsmith415 at 10:24 PM on December 6, 2005

Paradoxically, you'll need to first get yourself out of the menial job. This is because the formula for overcoming a really bad undergraduate GPA is "high LSAT + post-college accomplishment."

While a master's degree could count as that accomplishment, it probably won't, because most master's degrees are easy to get. Working as a paralegal certainly doesn't get you there, either, for the same reason.

Figure out something you're good at, or passionate about, and which, if you did it for a couple of years with zeal you could amass a demonstrated record of achievement. Do it, and after a year of doing it, sit down and take Princeton or Kaplan and get a high LSAT. Then you're ready to apply.
posted by MattD at 11:00 PM on December 6, 2005

Oh yeah, I should also mention that a lot of law schools give spots to "mature" students. This generally applies to people who aren't straight out of college and have a bit of work experience. As I understand it, GPAs aren't really a big factor for these types of students...depending on how long you've been out of college, this might be something to look into.
posted by johnsmith415 at 11:30 PM on December 6, 2005

Note: All of my letters of rec were from either bosses or professors in the Legal Admin program. My undergraduate professors wouldn't know me if they sat on me.
posted by jennyb at 8:31 PM on December 7, 2005