Why do people constantly think I'm a trans woman?
September 4, 2015 11:07 PM Subscribe
I'm a female, now in my mid-thirties. I'm multi-ethnic and wear glasses. Since my college years people, mostly Caucasian male type people, but sometimes Caucasian females, have trouble perceiving me as female (I was born female and consider myself female).
I often wear make-up and dresses, though I've had short hair since junior year in high school. It started out with confused looks and, "what the hell are you" spoken to my face on my college campus. I would often get called an "f-slur" out the window of passing cars as I walked to campus (never any female related slurs, like the b-word, c-word, d-word, etc).
My ex-husband and I were out for a walk with our infant son, years ago, and a group of teenage boys shouted out their car window, "nice baby, f-slurs". Gay men at parties often assume I'm a trans woman and talk to me about Caitlin Jenner. All this happens while I'm wearing subtle make up, women's clothes (but, granted, not overly feminine like lacy dresses. Just shorts or jeans and a T-shirt or party clothes). I'm only 5 foot 7 and 125 lbs. I honestly don't know where this confusion has constantly come from in my adult life. Even when I'm doing the most hetero-normative things with a male partner, like having coffee with my fiancee, there are snickers and just tonight a group of girls snickered at us and snapped sneaky pictures of me with their cell phones. Can someone explain to me what is going on here? I'm not gender queer, but I don't have any issues with people who are. Why do people constantly think I'm a trans woman? There is enough to discriminate against me for (I'm African-American, female, Catholic, Italian, in an inter-racial relationship) without having to also deal with strangers thinking I'm a gay male or a trans woman as well.
I don't particularly play my femininity up or down. I am slightly unconventional and wacky and gregarious, but the negative response about my percieved gender is simply confounding to me. Can anyone out there shed any light on this?
I often wear make-up and dresses, though I've had short hair since junior year in high school. It started out with confused looks and, "what the hell are you" spoken to my face on my college campus. I would often get called an "f-slur" out the window of passing cars as I walked to campus (never any female related slurs, like the b-word, c-word, d-word, etc).
My ex-husband and I were out for a walk with our infant son, years ago, and a group of teenage boys shouted out their car window, "nice baby, f-slurs". Gay men at parties often assume I'm a trans woman and talk to me about Caitlin Jenner. All this happens while I'm wearing subtle make up, women's clothes (but, granted, not overly feminine like lacy dresses. Just shorts or jeans and a T-shirt or party clothes). I'm only 5 foot 7 and 125 lbs. I honestly don't know where this confusion has constantly come from in my adult life. Even when I'm doing the most hetero-normative things with a male partner, like having coffee with my fiancee, there are snickers and just tonight a group of girls snickered at us and snapped sneaky pictures of me with their cell phones. Can someone explain to me what is going on here? I'm not gender queer, but I don't have any issues with people who are. Why do people constantly think I'm a trans woman? There is enough to discriminate against me for (I'm African-American, female, Catholic, Italian, in an inter-racial relationship) without having to also deal with strangers thinking I'm a gay male or a trans woman as well.
I don't particularly play my femininity up or down. I am slightly unconventional and wacky and gregarious, but the negative response about my percieved gender is simply confounding to me. Can anyone out there shed any light on this?
In the absence of more info, I'd guess something like this: people form first impressions in as little as a tenth of a second and suffer from things like confirmation bias thereafter. So on the occasions when this has happened, it could be something very subtle at first, including extrinsic factors like lighting and distance, and then as much of a problem with human psychology as anything else when the error continued. You described this as constant, but I don't know if that was just an expression or if it was based on really evaluating how much more often people don't make the mistake.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 11:29 PM on September 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Monsieur Caution at 11:29 PM on September 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
The simple answer is that you present with some markers that some folks read as male. This can be really anything: body shape, face shape, hair style, fashion, gait, the sound of your voice, mannerisms. Humans have pretty finely developed sensitivities to all these things, created and reinforced by our extremely gendered socialization.
Without more specific information about you I don't know that we can figure out what specifically is causing this confusion.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:44 PM on September 4, 2015 [18 favorites]
Without more specific information about you I don't know that we can figure out what specifically is causing this confusion.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:44 PM on September 4, 2015 [18 favorites]
I would guess that you have a more angular body and face shape than the average woman. There are pattern and distinct ways that "average" men and women typically hold body fat, and if your body falls outside of the typical female shape range that's the only thing I can think of that would signal you being male to so many people.
Of course there are all sorts of completely normal body types all across the shape spectrum no matter what your gender and sex and most people know this, but unfortunately being ignorant is also highly correlated with being rude and those are the people you're encountering.
posted by phunniemee at 11:49 PM on September 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Of course there are all sorts of completely normal body types all across the shape spectrum no matter what your gender and sex and most people know this, but unfortunately being ignorant is also highly correlated with being rude and those are the people you're encountering.
posted by phunniemee at 11:49 PM on September 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Broad / pointy shoulders? Strong jaw? Big nose? Heavy brow line? Who knows, we'd really need a picture to tell.
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 12:40 AM on September 5, 2015
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 12:40 AM on September 5, 2015
I used to frequently be mistaken for female, and I am a cis gay male not making any attempt to present in a feminine style. As the above posters have said, this mis-gendering is almost certainly due to physical aspects of our bodies and faces that are difficult to identify or control. I completely understand your frustration, no one should have to put up with being insulted and intimidated by strangers in public.
I think you are really asking two questions though. The first is why is are you being misperceived in the first place, which many people here with greater observational skills than mine may be able to help you with if you feel comfortable sharing a picture (in public or privately via direct MeFi mail message), but I think the second and seemingly more important question to you is why are people being so hostile about it. And of course there are many reasons why people are terrible, but I think what you should hold on to is that it's because you are happy and enjoying your life and they're petty small jealous people.
Look at the examples you gave, this happens while you're out walking with your infant or enjoying coffee with a lover. These are people who are ignorant and mean and almost certainly covetous of the happiness and joy you're having in the moment so they try to tear you down. That this is how they interact with the world is pitiable, though it doesn't excuse their actions. Appreciate that your joy shines so brightly that even they with their cramped and narrow views were able to perceive it, and don't let their negativity into your life.
posted by books for weapons at 1:01 AM on September 5, 2015 [78 favorites]
I think you are really asking two questions though. The first is why is are you being misperceived in the first place, which many people here with greater observational skills than mine may be able to help you with if you feel comfortable sharing a picture (in public or privately via direct MeFi mail message), but I think the second and seemingly more important question to you is why are people being so hostile about it. And of course there are many reasons why people are terrible, but I think what you should hold on to is that it's because you are happy and enjoying your life and they're petty small jealous people.
Look at the examples you gave, this happens while you're out walking with your infant or enjoying coffee with a lover. These are people who are ignorant and mean and almost certainly covetous of the happiness and joy you're having in the moment so they try to tear you down. That this is how they interact with the world is pitiable, though it doesn't excuse their actions. Appreciate that your joy shines so brightly that even they with their cramped and narrow views were able to perceive it, and don't let their negativity into your life.
posted by books for weapons at 1:01 AM on September 5, 2015 [78 favorites]
Without pictures or anything to go on than your descriptions of other people's reactions, the only answer we can really give is that you look manly. Do you have a prominent adam's apple for example? Some women do but people associate that will maleness.
Also if you have a boyish figure (narrow hips and small breasts) and are wearing jeans/shorts and a t-shirt, that's not going to come off as particularly female from a distance. If you're 5' 7 and 125lbs, that sounds very slim to me
posted by missmagenta at 1:07 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also if you have a boyish figure (narrow hips and small breasts) and are wearing jeans/shorts and a t-shirt, that's not going to come off as particularly female from a distance. If you're 5' 7 and 125lbs, that sounds very slim to me
posted by missmagenta at 1:07 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
This article* suggests that one of the strongest cues people use to identify a face as belonging to a male or female is the jaw, followed by the brow-and-eye region. So without having a photograph, maybe you have a "strong" jaw and brow? [Combined with the short hair-cut, which is another cue people will perceive as "masculine", unless you have very small, fine features, a la a pixie.]
*Abstract only, but maybe you can find the whole paper.
posted by Halo in reverse at 1:22 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
*Abstract only, but maybe you can find the whole paper.
posted by Halo in reverse at 1:22 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Add my name to the chorus of people asking for a photo. Without being able to see you, it will be very difficult to offer real help.
If people are reading you as trans from some distance, I'm guessing you have rather broad shoulders and/or narrow hips for a woman. The good news is that if this bothers you, there are things you can do with clothes to emphasize your hips and de-emphasize your shoulders. There are plenty of trans women who look much more conventionally masculine than you do, and they learn ways to make themselves look genetically feminine.
I'm also wondering if your voice may be deeper than you realize. The voice makes a huge, huge difference. Check out this clip of a guy with a beard talking with a "girl voice". He looks pretty masculine, but if he shaved that beard and talked with that voice, you'd probably be really confused for a minute about whether he was a man with a really unusual voice or if this person was a woman with a very, very masculine look. If people are shouting homophobic slurs at you as they pass it would seem less likely that your voice has something to do with it, but it may be that you have a voice that really carries and people passing by hear you and read you as a man.
Again, without pictures this is all total conjecture. If you are bothered by the situation, I'd strongly suggest growing your hair and experimenting with some different wardrobe choices. Take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you have narrow hips or wide shoulders or what could be going on figure-wise that's throwing people off. Don't be cruel to yourself, but be honest with yourself. You can't address this if you can't see it first. Give your voice a listen too, maybe record something and play it back. Does it sound particularly deep for a genetic female, or is there something else conventionally masculine about it?
For what it's worth, it sounds like people aren't saying you look bad, just that you look androgynous. Androgynous people can be very sexy indeed. Grace Jones is a super androgynous woman and she's glamorous as hell. Laverne Cox actually is a trans woman, and she's on magazine covers. If you want to look more conventionally feminine there are things you can do to make that happen. But maybe you look like a super hot person of ambiguous gender, and maybe that's awesome too.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:48 AM on September 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
If people are reading you as trans from some distance, I'm guessing you have rather broad shoulders and/or narrow hips for a woman. The good news is that if this bothers you, there are things you can do with clothes to emphasize your hips and de-emphasize your shoulders. There are plenty of trans women who look much more conventionally masculine than you do, and they learn ways to make themselves look genetically feminine.
I'm also wondering if your voice may be deeper than you realize. The voice makes a huge, huge difference. Check out this clip of a guy with a beard talking with a "girl voice". He looks pretty masculine, but if he shaved that beard and talked with that voice, you'd probably be really confused for a minute about whether he was a man with a really unusual voice or if this person was a woman with a very, very masculine look. If people are shouting homophobic slurs at you as they pass it would seem less likely that your voice has something to do with it, but it may be that you have a voice that really carries and people passing by hear you and read you as a man.
Again, without pictures this is all total conjecture. If you are bothered by the situation, I'd strongly suggest growing your hair and experimenting with some different wardrobe choices. Take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you have narrow hips or wide shoulders or what could be going on figure-wise that's throwing people off. Don't be cruel to yourself, but be honest with yourself. You can't address this if you can't see it first. Give your voice a listen too, maybe record something and play it back. Does it sound particularly deep for a genetic female, or is there something else conventionally masculine about it?
For what it's worth, it sounds like people aren't saying you look bad, just that you look androgynous. Androgynous people can be very sexy indeed. Grace Jones is a super androgynous woman and she's glamorous as hell. Laverne Cox actually is a trans woman, and she's on magazine covers. If you want to look more conventionally feminine there are things you can do to make that happen. But maybe you look like a super hot person of ambiguous gender, and maybe that's awesome too.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:48 AM on September 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
You probably have some masculine features. There are classically male features on the face that most people immediately recognize as belonging to a male. I'm mostly German, and I have a sharp jaw line and a Roman profile and I've had people tell me that I present androgynously from the side (my profile). The first time it happened it made me very uncomfortable being that I identify so strongly with being female and feminine, and was born biologically female, but the second time it happened the person told me how unique and beautiful said features were and that they made me strikingly beautiful. I started thinking of it differently then. I don't mean to minimize your frustrations by telling you about my situation; it sounds like you get this all the time and that you find it very offensive, but I can at least empathize a little. Something that's noteworthy- I can think of a handful of supermodels and female actors who have androgynous features, and who are touted as the world's most beautiful women. Gisele Bundchen, Angelina Jolie, I could go on. From certain angles these women look androgynous. I don't think it's a bad thing to have fierce features, and I think that with the right makeup and hair, fierce features are the most beautiful.
If you don't learn to live comfortably with it and to work with it in terms of your dress and presentation, it will probably eat away at you. Aside from plastic surgery to create more feminine features, there's really only the acceptance angle. Whatever you do, don't let it ruin your self-esteem.
posted by Avosunspin at 2:45 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you don't learn to live comfortably with it and to work with it in terms of your dress and presentation, it will probably eat away at you. Aside from plastic surgery to create more feminine features, there's really only the acceptance angle. Whatever you do, don't let it ruin your self-esteem.
posted by Avosunspin at 2:45 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
i have to say, the obvious bigger question is why on earth other people (1) care and (2) feel the need to be aggressive about it.
as everyone else is saying, it seems like there must be something about you that triggers this - my own uninformed guess is that it might be gait or posture, since as a straight , cis male i can usually tell whether it's a man or woman from, well, miles away, unconsciously - and i always assumed women could do the same. this paper claims people can do this from "small point-lights [attached] to the main joints of human body", for example.
so if you want to change this, maybe you can find someone who can analyse your gait and perhaps train you to change it?
but frankly, as i said above, and as i suspect everyone else here feels - why the heck should you? if it were me, i'd be aggressive right back, but while that's cathartic i guess it's neither safe not "feminine", which may be what you would prefer.
so if you're looking for "solutions" all i can suggest, and what helps somewhat for me in (sorry for mentioning the same things again and again in askme) living in a foreign culture, is understanding "them". which means answering question (2) above. there must be piles of work on this - i guess they feel threatened in their sexuality, blah blah. if you can explore this, you may find some way to twist it round in your favour. although god knows how. in my case, as a "gringo" there are certain "roles" i can play. but i have no idea what those might be in your case, as a perceived trans person. good luck
ps if it is gait, you'd need to post a video, not a photo..
pps obviosu search for loads more on gait analysis - https://www.google.com/search?q=gait+posture+identifying+sex+from+distance&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=gait++identifying+sex+from+distance
posted by andrewcooke at 3:15 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
as everyone else is saying, it seems like there must be something about you that triggers this - my own uninformed guess is that it might be gait or posture, since as a straight , cis male i can usually tell whether it's a man or woman from, well, miles away, unconsciously - and i always assumed women could do the same. this paper claims people can do this from "small point-lights [attached] to the main joints of human body", for example.
so if you want to change this, maybe you can find someone who can analyse your gait and perhaps train you to change it?
but frankly, as i said above, and as i suspect everyone else here feels - why the heck should you? if it were me, i'd be aggressive right back, but while that's cathartic i guess it's neither safe not "feminine", which may be what you would prefer.
so if you're looking for "solutions" all i can suggest, and what helps somewhat for me in (sorry for mentioning the same things again and again in askme) living in a foreign culture, is understanding "them". which means answering question (2) above. there must be piles of work on this - i guess they feel threatened in their sexuality, blah blah. if you can explore this, you may find some way to twist it round in your favour. although god knows how. in my case, as a "gringo" there are certain "roles" i can play. but i have no idea what those might be in your case, as a perceived trans person. good luck
ps if it is gait, you'd need to post a video, not a photo..
pps obviosu search for loads more on gait analysis - https://www.google.com/search?q=gait+posture+identifying+sex+from+distance&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=gait++identifying+sex+from+distance
posted by andrewcooke at 3:15 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
another obvious thought: this must be a problem trans people face too. you'd hope there was training for them. maybe you were hoping for answers from someone trans rather clueless speculation from people like me. sorry.
posted by andrewcooke at 3:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by andrewcooke at 3:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am so sorry people are being so shitty. I would say it is nothing about how you present, and everything about having the bad luck to come across crappy immature people, with a side order of raciscm thrown in.
Fuck 'em. You do not need to prove a thing.
posted by arha at 3:45 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Fuck 'em. You do not need to prove a thing.
posted by arha at 3:45 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also: coming to this from the perspective of a petite, Caucasian, cis-gendered female who had all sorts of crap yelled at me when I had the temerity to shave my head. The short hair alone is enough to set some idiots off.
Again. Fuck 'em.
posted by arha at 3:58 AM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
Again. Fuck 'em.
posted by arha at 3:58 AM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
Wow, I'm shocked no one's mentioned it:
Racism.
I'm frankly rather appalled that people are demanding photos and telling you that "you must look manly" (are you kidding me?) while not acknowledging that African-American women are subjected to much higher scrutiny of their femininity and accusations of hyper-masculinity than white women are.
I'm not surprised, though. Read the comments in any Metafilter thread about Serena Williams. On second thought...don't.
Check this study on gender and race out.
Googling "black women" and "masculinity," this is something I see A LOT of women of color speaking up about (as well as a bunch of racist, misogynoirist bigots). This is not just you; it's not about your adam's apple (seriously?) or something you're doing wrong.
This is the intersection of racism, gender policing, misogyny that specifically targets black women, and the transphobia that specifically targets trans women of color (which should never affect ANYONE, but is being incorrectly applied to you). I'm so sorry that this keeps happening to you. I completely agree that there's enough on your plate without strangers being so ugly to you.
Again, I just want to repeat that this isn't about what you're doing wrong. Please don't listen to the voice that says maybe it's my fault because of [this] or [this].
posted by Juliet Banana at 4:18 AM on September 5, 2015 [176 favorites]
Racism.
I'm frankly rather appalled that people are demanding photos and telling you that "you must look manly" (are you kidding me?) while not acknowledging that African-American women are subjected to much higher scrutiny of their femininity and accusations of hyper-masculinity than white women are.
I'm not surprised, though. Read the comments in any Metafilter thread about Serena Williams. On second thought...don't.
Check this study on gender and race out.
Googling "black women" and "masculinity," this is something I see A LOT of women of color speaking up about (as well as a bunch of racist, misogynoirist bigots). This is not just you; it's not about your adam's apple (seriously?) or something you're doing wrong.
This is the intersection of racism, gender policing, misogyny that specifically targets black women, and the transphobia that specifically targets trans women of color (which should never affect ANYONE, but is being incorrectly applied to you). I'm so sorry that this keeps happening to you. I completely agree that there's enough on your plate without strangers being so ugly to you.
Again, I just want to repeat that this isn't about what you're doing wrong. Please don't listen to the voice that says maybe it's my fault because of [this] or [this].
posted by Juliet Banana at 4:18 AM on September 5, 2015 [176 favorites]
This really sucks and I'm so sorry that you experience it so frequently. I think that it's probably a combination of factors. I agree with Juliet Banana that a lot of it is probably because of racism. But I also agree with arha about the short hair. The kind of street harassment that I received when I had short hair is really different to the kind of street harassment that I get now that my hair is longer again.
Have you asked any of these gay men at parties why they read you as trans?
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:05 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have you asked any of these gay men at parties why they read you as trans?
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:05 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
After I almost died in childbirth the hospital did a CAT scan of my pelvis. They told me I have what is called an 'androidal' pelvis. It is narrower than most women's. In other respects I have quite a high-oestrogen body type, with a small face and features. However from behind - when I am wearing trousers - I am sometimes mistaken for a man. I put it down to that pelvis.
posted by communicator at 5:08 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by communicator at 5:08 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
2nding Juliet Banana that this is almost certainly a manifestation of racism and the ubiquity of transmisogyny directed against African-American women (even when the woman receiving the abuse happens to be cis), not a reaction to some specific visual cue. You could talk to one of the friendly gay men who assumed you were trans if you want, but personally if it were me in this situation, I'd rather just read empowering works by trans women of color (Redefining Realness by Janet Mock!) instead. I think that will give you more satisfaction than tinkering with your appearance. Feel free to do that if it makes you happy, but realize the abuse may have little to do with anything about you specifically.
I look kind of in-between genderwise (assigned female at birth, stereotypically feminine features, short hair and men's clothes) and have found that people reading me as male/female/trans/cis has everything to do with them, their knowledge of gender, and the level of control they want to exert over others, and almost nothing to do with what I look like that day.
posted by thetortoise at 5:35 AM on September 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
I look kind of in-between genderwise (assigned female at birth, stereotypically feminine features, short hair and men's clothes) and have found that people reading me as male/female/trans/cis has everything to do with them, their knowledge of gender, and the level of control they want to exert over others, and almost nothing to do with what I look like that day.
posted by thetortoise at 5:35 AM on September 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think Juliet Banana has nailed it.
Do you know gay men who know a lot of trans people or gay men whose interaction with queer people is limited to other (virtually all cis) gay men? I had a friend who was regularly assumed to be trans in spaces with lots of trans people (something about his body type plus knowing trans people), so that's a thing that happens to some people.
posted by hoyland at 5:50 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do you know gay men who know a lot of trans people or gay men whose interaction with queer people is limited to other (virtually all cis) gay men? I had a friend who was regularly assumed to be trans in spaces with lots of trans people (something about his body type plus knowing trans people), so that's a thing that happens to some people.
posted by hoyland at 5:50 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
When my sister graduated from NYU she cut her hair really short and died it yellow to match her dress so we'd be able to see her from the heights of the bleachers. I thought she looked great.
After the ceremony we were walking to a restaurant and rude and unsolicited comments were everywhere. She has a very square jaw and people have mistaken us for brothers. I had to pull our mom off one screaming asshole.
It was so weird. We could walk through alphabet city (late 80's) on her way home and people would say "Hey yellow!" and that was it. Manhattan was much ruder than the boys on the street.
She has kept the short hair into her forties and thinks it makes men at work take her seriously. And she could give two somethings about whether anyone is bothered by her appearance.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 6:06 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
After the ceremony we were walking to a restaurant and rude and unsolicited comments were everywhere. She has a very square jaw and people have mistaken us for brothers. I had to pull our mom off one screaming asshole.
It was so weird. We could walk through alphabet city (late 80's) on her way home and people would say "Hey yellow!" and that was it. Manhattan was much ruder than the boys on the street.
She has kept the short hair into her forties and thinks it makes men at work take her seriously. And she could give two somethings about whether anyone is bothered by her appearance.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 6:06 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Juliet Banana is not wrong. And I'm with her in not being interested in looking at you and evaluating your body for its femaleness because ewww. My trans friends get that crap all the time, and I would not do it to somebody.
Here is a thing I know from my days as a women's studies major: because the default "male" is so strongly encoded, it takes fewer cues to read a person as male than to read a person as female. For instance, no matter what a woman's body type, if her hair is short enough she will get called Sir. When I have my hair buzzed, I get called "sir" sometimes even when I am wearing a dress. I also have enormous breasts. But the buzz cut seems to override everything, at least at first glance.
The point is that it can take surprisingly little for a person to be read as male, and anyone who isn't actively throwing up obvious multiple "I am female" cues can be seen as male. As folks up-thread have commented, something as minor as the shape of a jaw seen from certain angles can do it.
It is also my experience that, having become familiar with trans people and having my life full of them now, I see faux-trans people everywhere. My partner, who is trans, and I have often commented on this. It attunes you to awareness of how many people aren't firmly on one side or the other of the line.
The hostility you get, and the weird, "So, let's talk about Caitlyn Jenner because I perceive you as trans" stuff is the product of homophobia, ignorance, and insensitivity. Plus, as Juliet Banana said, racism.
posted by not that girl at 7:08 AM on September 5, 2015 [38 favorites]
Here is a thing I know from my days as a women's studies major: because the default "male" is so strongly encoded, it takes fewer cues to read a person as male than to read a person as female. For instance, no matter what a woman's body type, if her hair is short enough she will get called Sir. When I have my hair buzzed, I get called "sir" sometimes even when I am wearing a dress. I also have enormous breasts. But the buzz cut seems to override everything, at least at first glance.
The point is that it can take surprisingly little for a person to be read as male, and anyone who isn't actively throwing up obvious multiple "I am female" cues can be seen as male. As folks up-thread have commented, something as minor as the shape of a jaw seen from certain angles can do it.
It is also my experience that, having become familiar with trans people and having my life full of them now, I see faux-trans people everywhere. My partner, who is trans, and I have often commented on this. It attunes you to awareness of how many people aren't firmly on one side or the other of the line.
The hostility you get, and the weird, "So, let's talk about Caitlyn Jenner because I perceive you as trans" stuff is the product of homophobia, ignorance, and insensitivity. Plus, as Juliet Banana said, racism.
posted by not that girl at 7:08 AM on September 5, 2015 [38 favorites]
> The simple answer is that you present with some markers that some folks read as male.
This. With one of those markers, as Juliet Banana points out, being race.
There is not one sole thing - hair length, or breadth of shoulders compared to your body size, or whether or not you wear makeup. I'm often read as male and have been since forever, even when I had hair down to my ass, even though I don't have A-cup boobs. I have had people call me "sir" and "he" even after talking with me for many minutes, and not because they're trying to be polite to the trans man.
"Male" is on some level the default category, and (on preview!) what not that girl points out is true - it just takes less to get there, so to speak.
posted by rtha at 7:12 AM on September 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
This. With one of those markers, as Juliet Banana points out, being race.
There is not one sole thing - hair length, or breadth of shoulders compared to your body size, or whether or not you wear makeup. I'm often read as male and have been since forever, even when I had hair down to my ass, even though I don't have A-cup boobs. I have had people call me "sir" and "he" even after talking with me for many minutes, and not because they're trying to be polite to the trans man.
"Male" is on some level the default category, and (on preview!) what not that girl points out is true - it just takes less to get there, so to speak.
posted by rtha at 7:12 AM on September 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
It might be something in the shape of your hips or your shoulders, the way you walk, the shape or size of your nose or jaw. Whatever it is, it is most certainly mainly something in the heads of these men.
They can't deal with what they perceive as conflicting information, and it makes some of them angry, and they take it out on you. I dressed up as a man once, in the context of a workshop, and one of the men present apparently thought that I was enjoying myself too much, so he went and pinched my breast to show me that I was 'really a girl'. Some men really can't deal with gender ambivalence even if it's just inside their own heads!
I think you have two choices: either play up the visible aspects of your femininity, or make like a duck and let it roll off your back. Personally I'd go with the latter option, but we're all different.
People with an androgynous image are often gorgeous. I bet you are gorgeous too. If you can, maybe think 'they just can't deal with how fabulous I am and they can all piss right off' and leave it at that.
And if a friendly person assumes that you're a trans woman, or asks whether you are, you could ask 'That's interesting, what makes you think so?' But only if you're on the mood and it's something you want to talk about with them.
Also I think not_that_girl is spot on.
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:14 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
They can't deal with what they perceive as conflicting information, and it makes some of them angry, and they take it out on you. I dressed up as a man once, in the context of a workshop, and one of the men present apparently thought that I was enjoying myself too much, so he went and pinched my breast to show me that I was 'really a girl'. Some men really can't deal with gender ambivalence even if it's just inside their own heads!
I think you have two choices: either play up the visible aspects of your femininity, or make like a duck and let it roll off your back. Personally I'd go with the latter option, but we're all different.
People with an androgynous image are often gorgeous. I bet you are gorgeous too. If you can, maybe think 'they just can't deal with how fabulous I am and they can all piss right off' and leave it at that.
And if a friendly person assumes that you're a trans woman, or asks whether you are, you could ask 'That's interesting, what makes you think so?' But only if you're on the mood and it's something you want to talk about with them.
Also I think not_that_girl is spot on.
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:14 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's not wildly off the mark to talk about physical traits other than race that these shitwads are reacting to, honestly. Yes, racism and transphobia have a terrible intersection. But not every woman in an interracial relationship is misgendered like this.
One tiny data point - this happened to me (whitey white) constantly while I had short hair and never ever after.
My personal suspicion is that it's the intersection of race, hair and our cultural moment of trans awareness so these morons are on the lookout.
Here's a question to consider - in hindsight, can you see a shift in being called a [gay man] before Republican Jenner hit the news, and a [trans woman] afterwards?
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 8:19 AM on September 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
One tiny data point - this happened to me (whitey white) constantly while I had short hair and never ever after.
My personal suspicion is that it's the intersection of race, hair and our cultural moment of trans awareness so these morons are on the lookout.
Here's a question to consider - in hindsight, can you see a shift in being called a [gay man] before Republican Jenner hit the news, and a [trans woman] afterwards?
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 8:19 AM on September 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
+1 for Juliet Banana and not that girl's answers. This is something wrong with other people, not you, and it's entrenched in cultural baggage. The fact that people burden you with it is grossly unfair.
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:22 AM on September 5, 2015
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:22 AM on September 5, 2015
Because you live somewhere sucky. Seriously. Even if you were trans*, they shouldn't be yelling at you or otherwise harassing you. I used to be treated like this even as a child/teenager when I lived in rural Midwestern towns, but in where I live now, I've been called a faggot exactly once and nobody has ever asked "what" I am. Ironically in my case, their acceptance is so broad as to be somewhat excessive, in that I really wouldn't mind not being taken as a woman (cis or trans), so I don't think it's just that they're more polite.
posted by teremala at 8:39 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by teremala at 8:39 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Because you live somewhere sucky. Seriously. That's it.
I would strongly disagree with that. I live somewhere awesome (Upper West Side, Manhattan) and have insults shouted at me while I was running or whatever. People are gross everywhere.
I agree with those who say racism or just what people perceive to be masculine facial features. People are stupid.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:46 AM on September 5, 2015
I would strongly disagree with that. I live somewhere awesome (Upper West Side, Manhattan) and have insults shouted at me while I was running or whatever. People are gross everywhere.
I agree with those who say racism or just what people perceive to be masculine facial features. People are stupid.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:46 AM on September 5, 2015
I'm frankly rather appalled that people are demanding photos
Me too. I'm sorry we didn't do better here at the start of this thread.
When I wore my hair short I was often mistaken for a young boy. My therapist helped me to learn how to handle it so much better than my hair stylist ever did. Makeup and dresses and hairbrushes are not my bag but loving myself sure is. You've got lots of good advice from kind smart people here. Take care. And fuck the haters. Your happiness and comfort make them so upset they feel like taking you down a peg. Fuck em.
posted by sockermom at 9:12 AM on September 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
Me too. I'm sorry we didn't do better here at the start of this thread.
When I wore my hair short I was often mistaken for a young boy. My therapist helped me to learn how to handle it so much better than my hair stylist ever did. Makeup and dresses and hairbrushes are not my bag but loving myself sure is. You've got lots of good advice from kind smart people here. Take care. And fuck the haters. Your happiness and comfort make them so upset they feel like taking you down a peg. Fuck em.
posted by sockermom at 9:12 AM on September 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
I'm a transwoman who's had to scrutinize her body very carefully to figure out ways to downplay the masculine parts of her features; there are a lot of subtle cues you really only know about if you start looking for them. My first reaction was also "show us a photo or two, we can list all things that read as manly and suggest ways to downplay them if you want to".
My experience of constructing a feminine presentation is that it's often not so much that one feature reads as MASCULINE! or FEMININE!; rather it's that just enough features read as masculine or feminine that the overall presentation adds up one way or another.
For instance: where do your eyebrows sit on the browbone? Are they low, maybe even curving around to where it overhangs the eye socket? Manly. Are they high, with some naked flesh between them and the eye socket? Femmy. What's your jaw shaped like? Prominent corners? Manly. How do you style your hair? There are unambiguously feminine short styles out there.
Some of these kinds of things can be changed simply - I send a pretty unambiguously female message by plucking the lower side of my eyebrows and having long, brightly-colored hair, for instance, despite almost never bothering to use makeup to shade my somewhat angular jaw and soften its curve. I'll never be able to change the fact that my shoulders are kinda wide for a lady and my hips are kinda narrow unless I can scoop my brain out and stick it in another body.
Attitude plays a lot in it too. Confidence is sexy; a confident posture generally increases people's tendency to not look for weirdnesses and flaws. Seriously.
But mostly, if you want to make people stop misgendering you, then play around with your presentation and find ways to femme it up. You don't have to try to make yourself look hyperfeminine; you just need to push enough ambiguous cues to just far enough over the line that a bunch of "that feature is like 60% female" cues add up to "totally a lady". If you don't want to share a photo here then ask your RL friends what bits of your presentation read as male, then decide which ones you're willing to play with and which ones are not gonna change for whatever reason. (personal style, too much hassle, too expensive, etc)
Or you could learn to project such an intense aura of AWESOME that you know in the deepest, darkest corner of your soul that all these people cow before your vastly superior savoir-faire. This is a hard path that has the risk of completely crumbling and leaving you feeling like utter shit - I know, I've been there. I wouldn't recommend relying on it entirely though some of it could certainly help.
posted by egypturnash at 11:28 AM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
My experience of constructing a feminine presentation is that it's often not so much that one feature reads as MASCULINE! or FEMININE!; rather it's that just enough features read as masculine or feminine that the overall presentation adds up one way or another.
For instance: where do your eyebrows sit on the browbone? Are they low, maybe even curving around to where it overhangs the eye socket? Manly. Are they high, with some naked flesh between them and the eye socket? Femmy. What's your jaw shaped like? Prominent corners? Manly. How do you style your hair? There are unambiguously feminine short styles out there.
Some of these kinds of things can be changed simply - I send a pretty unambiguously female message by plucking the lower side of my eyebrows and having long, brightly-colored hair, for instance, despite almost never bothering to use makeup to shade my somewhat angular jaw and soften its curve. I'll never be able to change the fact that my shoulders are kinda wide for a lady and my hips are kinda narrow unless I can scoop my brain out and stick it in another body.
Attitude plays a lot in it too. Confidence is sexy; a confident posture generally increases people's tendency to not look for weirdnesses and flaws. Seriously.
But mostly, if you want to make people stop misgendering you, then play around with your presentation and find ways to femme it up. You don't have to try to make yourself look hyperfeminine; you just need to push enough ambiguous cues to just far enough over the line that a bunch of "that feature is like 60% female" cues add up to "totally a lady". If you don't want to share a photo here then ask your RL friends what bits of your presentation read as male, then decide which ones you're willing to play with and which ones are not gonna change for whatever reason. (personal style, too much hassle, too expensive, etc)
Or you could learn to project such an intense aura of AWESOME that you know in the deepest, darkest corner of your soul that all these people cow before your vastly superior savoir-faire. This is a hard path that has the risk of completely crumbling and leaving you feeling like utter shit - I know, I've been there. I wouldn't recommend relying on it entirely though some of it could certainly help.
posted by egypturnash at 11:28 AM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
I posted a comment and it got deleted. I didn't think I was being rude, but now I'll go back and try to be super duper polite.
To those saying it's offensive that people were asking for photos: the OP was asking why people constantly assume she is trans, and those of us asking for photos didn't feel like we could guess what the situation was without seeing her. Some of you are assuming it's because she is a POC and it may actually have nothing to do with that. Until you see her, it's all conjecture.
I'm not denying that some female POC, trans and otherwise, have to deal with these issues. But I don't think we can assume that just because she is a POC, that explains it.
I'm trans myself, and I'm not ashamed of being trans and I'm not making any excuses for people who are being insulting to this woman. But I can understand why it would bother her to be mistaken for something she's not and insulted for it.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:54 PM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
To those saying it's offensive that people were asking for photos: the OP was asking why people constantly assume she is trans, and those of us asking for photos didn't feel like we could guess what the situation was without seeing her. Some of you are assuming it's because she is a POC and it may actually have nothing to do with that. Until you see her, it's all conjecture.
I'm not denying that some female POC, trans and otherwise, have to deal with these issues. But I don't think we can assume that just because she is a POC, that explains it.
I'm trans myself, and I'm not ashamed of being trans and I'm not making any excuses for people who are being insulting to this woman. But I can understand why it would bother her to be mistaken for something she's not and insulted for it.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:54 PM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think the reason that people might feel emboldened to be so rude may have to do with being a POC. It's bullying "punching down" behavior.
I found myself really fascinated by a person walking down the street the other day. They could have been a girl or a boy, trans woman or trans man and I found myself turning it over for blocks before I was like, "hey brain, let it go!" I surprised myself and embarrassed myself in my own head. It's weird how quickly we try to categorize.
posted by amanda at 5:07 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I found myself really fascinated by a person walking down the street the other day. They could have been a girl or a boy, trans woman or trans man and I found myself turning it over for blocks before I was like, "hey brain, let it go!" I surprised myself and embarrassed myself in my own head. It's weird how quickly we try to categorize.
posted by amanda at 5:07 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I get misgendered a lot in the States despite being an extremely feminine cis woman (petite, hourglass figure, high-pitched voice). I've never been misgendered in any other country, including never in Canada, but it happens reliably in the States. It is usually customer service people who have every reason not to insult me, and I am read as a teenage boy despite being in my mid-30s and usually wearing a dress and makeup.
In my case it is that I am not wearing stereotypical corporate US women's makeup (UK makeup is applied slightly differently), and that I am dressed in a UK style not a US style. I therefore do not get read as 'female', so people think "short, high voice, not female... Teenage boy!" I tell people about this in the UK and they don't believe me that it happens, so I am really not fooling myself about whether I look feminine or not.
You mention that you look "unconventional" and I suspect that that is enough to make people think "not ticking arbitrary female box, not a man, hmmm.... Transwoman!" I doubt posting a picture would help - it's probably some weird hyper-local thing. Maybe all the women locally do something with their eyebrows, or their hair, or wear a brooch. If it really bothers you, you could try to mimic women around you, but personally I'd try to move somewhere with less rigid gender signifiers if that's an option for you.
posted by tinkletown at 5:40 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
In my case it is that I am not wearing stereotypical corporate US women's makeup (UK makeup is applied slightly differently), and that I am dressed in a UK style not a US style. I therefore do not get read as 'female', so people think "short, high voice, not female... Teenage boy!" I tell people about this in the UK and they don't believe me that it happens, so I am really not fooling myself about whether I look feminine or not.
You mention that you look "unconventional" and I suspect that that is enough to make people think "not ticking arbitrary female box, not a man, hmmm.... Transwoman!" I doubt posting a picture would help - it's probably some weird hyper-local thing. Maybe all the women locally do something with their eyebrows, or their hair, or wear a brooch. If it really bothers you, you could try to mimic women around you, but personally I'd try to move somewhere with less rigid gender signifiers if that's an option for you.
posted by tinkletown at 5:40 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
As a cis woman with fairly wide shoulders, wide enough it is inevitably difficult to get fitted shirts, I find that can read as masculine to some folks, even when wearing a dress. There have been occasional homophobic slurs and thrown objects.
Since some of the situations you mention don't involve people looking at you for very long, I'm making a wild guess that shoulder width might be one trait people are picking up on.
A tip for the wide shouldered -- halter tops and dresses tend to emphasize shoulder width. It's because the straps are so close to the neck, and when people see a wide expanse of skin between strap and shoulder they don't take into account where the straps hit. If you want to de-emphasize the shoulder width, straps that are more widely placed, and wide straps instead of spaghetti straps, will be helpful. Or cute little shrug type jackets can go over a halter dress.
If you want to delve into specific traits people might be reading wrong, there is material out there for people transitioning to female about how to pass that discusses how gender is perceived by others in detail.
I'm sorry that you have had to deal with these attitudes from people.
posted by yohko at 11:28 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Since some of the situations you mention don't involve people looking at you for very long, I'm making a wild guess that shoulder width might be one trait people are picking up on.
A tip for the wide shouldered -- halter tops and dresses tend to emphasize shoulder width. It's because the straps are so close to the neck, and when people see a wide expanse of skin between strap and shoulder they don't take into account where the straps hit. If you want to de-emphasize the shoulder width, straps that are more widely placed, and wide straps instead of spaghetti straps, will be helpful. Or cute little shrug type jackets can go over a halter dress.
If you want to delve into specific traits people might be reading wrong, there is material out there for people transitioning to female about how to pass that discusses how gender is perceived by others in detail.
I'm sorry that you have had to deal with these attitudes from people.
posted by yohko at 11:28 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hey this happens to me too! (I'm a bit gender-quirky but present as a cis woman, and people have thought I was a man: at a bra store, in a dress, with long hair, or while pregnant.)
I read about a study where researchers took a prototypical face and body of one sex and selectively added features of the other, and asked people the sex of the person. Turns out the ratio is ridiculous; people will guess male with a *very* small number of male features. It might be a color thing, or a height/build thing, or a dark facial hair thing (I'm Italian and have that going on), the way you take up space, or that your short hair is of a more masculine cut.
None of us can say for sure what is happening, but one thing I know from experience is that there don't need to be very many masculine details to fail The Test. It sucks, and if it is something about you it doesn't mean it's your fault of course! I've read interesting articles on how to "pass" effectively. They're written for a trans audience but I've found them to be less "you fail at gender" shameful than articles written by and for cis audiences, and while details about, say, tucking don't apply, they've been helpful when I feel the need to code shift.
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:20 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
I read about a study where researchers took a prototypical face and body of one sex and selectively added features of the other, and asked people the sex of the person. Turns out the ratio is ridiculous; people will guess male with a *very* small number of male features. It might be a color thing, or a height/build thing, or a dark facial hair thing (I'm Italian and have that going on), the way you take up space, or that your short hair is of a more masculine cut.
None of us can say for sure what is happening, but one thing I know from experience is that there don't need to be very many masculine details to fail The Test. It sucks, and if it is something about you it doesn't mean it's your fault of course! I've read interesting articles on how to "pass" effectively. They're written for a trans audience but I've found them to be less "you fail at gender" shameful than articles written by and for cis audiences, and while details about, say, tucking don't apply, they've been helpful when I feel the need to code shift.
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:20 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Just want to add one more thing that I don't think anyone mentioned specifically: body language and posture. How someone moves isn't just about gait; it's about how they relate to their environment, how they stand, and how they interact spatially with other people.
I suspect that that why people are misidentifying has to do with some of the cues mentioned here somewhere, whether it be physical features, voice, gait, or movement. Why you have a high rate of not-friendly encounters may well have to do with race, but I really doubt that explains the entirety of the issue.
posted by stormyteal at 6:31 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
I suspect that that why people are misidentifying has to do with some of the cues mentioned here somewhere, whether it be physical features, voice, gait, or movement. Why you have a high rate of not-friendly encounters may well have to do with race, but I really doubt that explains the entirety of the issue.
posted by stormyteal at 6:31 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do you have short hair? I'm a cis female and since I've gotten my hair cut short, I've been mistaken as male usually multiple times a week. It never happened until I had short hair, and I do not have any features that are stereotypically male (in fact the opposite is true) - a stupid number of people see the hair and stop thinking.
posted by zug at 5:21 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by zug at 5:21 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
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