You're half fired!
September 1, 2015 9:31 AM Subscribe
How do I take away half of an employee’s accounts and income without losing him? For now.
This is my first position as a manager and I’ve never had to fire anyone before.
The employee I’m speaking of is a part time retail merchandiser in a big box hardware store. The product we service is a high end barbeque manufacturer. A major part of the job is to inspect returned grills to see if they are truly defective or not. If defective, we issue a return authorization. If not, we reject the return and the grill becomes the stores problem. Most returns are “operator error” with the complaint being that “the grill won’t get hot enough”. This is easily correctable and can be handled in 10 minutes over the phone through our customer service dept.
The problem stems from my predecessor who would let the merchandisers return everything even when the grill “won’t get hot”. He trained the merchandisers to think that all they had to do was call it in and get the return authorization number. He didn’t require the merchandisers to fire up the grill to see if it really did not get hot enough. I have been slowly trying to train the merchandiser in the correct way to inspect the grills and when to reject them. Subtlety is not working and I’m having to get very direct and firm.
Last week he called in 3 grills that did not get hot. I know these were bullshit claims and called him on it. I asked him about this and then he gave me different reasons for the returns. I went out to one store and tested the grill and the problem was not what he said it was. It worked fine so I rejected the claim. I called another store and determined that this claim was not returnable as well. He lied to me and has not been doing the job correctly anyway.
Additionally, he lives two hours away and should have never been given 26 stores with the majority being so far away. He should have only been servicing 12 or so stores anyway. He has been costing us more in mileage than he gets paid. This is the result of my predecessor not wanting to take the time to find a local replacement.
Additionally, the merchandiser does not have a smart phone or computer. My company is going to make us do call reports through an app which he will not be able to do. He will be obsolete in a few month anyway when the app goes live.
I should fire him for lying but due to the circumstances I still need him. Finding two new employees will be a major problem for me at this time. So I still need to keep him on for the stores on the south side of the state where he lives if possible. I’ve already found somebody to take over the stores that are far away from him.
He’s been doing this for us for 13 years. He does every other part of the job extremely well. It’s not his fault that he was “trained” to not reject grills by my predecessor. Not formally trained but by his previous manager’s actions.
He is retired and does not have much money. I feel terrible taking more than half of his income away, but this is business not charity. How do I deliver this news to him?
This is my first position as a manager and I’ve never had to fire anyone before.
The employee I’m speaking of is a part time retail merchandiser in a big box hardware store. The product we service is a high end barbeque manufacturer. A major part of the job is to inspect returned grills to see if they are truly defective or not. If defective, we issue a return authorization. If not, we reject the return and the grill becomes the stores problem. Most returns are “operator error” with the complaint being that “the grill won’t get hot enough”. This is easily correctable and can be handled in 10 minutes over the phone through our customer service dept.
The problem stems from my predecessor who would let the merchandisers return everything even when the grill “won’t get hot”. He trained the merchandisers to think that all they had to do was call it in and get the return authorization number. He didn’t require the merchandisers to fire up the grill to see if it really did not get hot enough. I have been slowly trying to train the merchandiser in the correct way to inspect the grills and when to reject them. Subtlety is not working and I’m having to get very direct and firm.
Last week he called in 3 grills that did not get hot. I know these were bullshit claims and called him on it. I asked him about this and then he gave me different reasons for the returns. I went out to one store and tested the grill and the problem was not what he said it was. It worked fine so I rejected the claim. I called another store and determined that this claim was not returnable as well. He lied to me and has not been doing the job correctly anyway.
Additionally, he lives two hours away and should have never been given 26 stores with the majority being so far away. He should have only been servicing 12 or so stores anyway. He has been costing us more in mileage than he gets paid. This is the result of my predecessor not wanting to take the time to find a local replacement.
Additionally, the merchandiser does not have a smart phone or computer. My company is going to make us do call reports through an app which he will not be able to do. He will be obsolete in a few month anyway when the app goes live.
I should fire him for lying but due to the circumstances I still need him. Finding two new employees will be a major problem for me at this time. So I still need to keep him on for the stores on the south side of the state where he lives if possible. I’ve already found somebody to take over the stores that are far away from him.
He’s been doing this for us for 13 years. He does every other part of the job extremely well. It’s not his fault that he was “trained” to not reject grills by my predecessor. Not formally trained but by his previous manager’s actions.
He is retired and does not have much money. I feel terrible taking more than half of his income away, but this is business not charity. How do I deliver this news to him?
Sounds like you could leave the performance issue out of it (unless you're hoping he will actually stay on after the app goes live?). The company is reorganizing and splitting what used to be one territory in two. He gets to keep the south part and Joe Newguy will be working the northern part.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Since this seems to be a large corporation, what is the process for reprimanding an employee? Follow that process: write him up for lying, come up with a plan for how to resolve the problem (which includes explicitly explaining how he should be handling these problem tickets, thus documenting that he's been told how to do it right). Best case scenario is he takes the writeup seriously and buckles down, doing things right from here on out. Worst case, now it's been documented he's been told how to do it right, and if he doesn't do it there's proof and recourse, and he's aware of what will happen.
As far as having so many locations and technical issues: this is a problem with how things are organized, not necessarily a problem with the employee. Identify the problem and potential solutions to the problem, and discuss with the employee (maybe do all at the reprimand meeting, so it doesn't all feel like 'they're mad at me' and give him an opportunity to show responsibility). Again, document everything, so that if the employee doesn't follow the decisions made, there's further recourse.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:45 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
As far as having so many locations and technical issues: this is a problem with how things are organized, not necessarily a problem with the employee. Identify the problem and potential solutions to the problem, and discuss with the employee (maybe do all at the reprimand meeting, so it doesn't all feel like 'they're mad at me' and give him an opportunity to show responsibility). Again, document everything, so that if the employee doesn't follow the decisions made, there's further recourse.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:45 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Maybe if he has fewer stores, he'll be able to handle learning the app and coming up to speed on being better with the authorizations. That's the "glass half full" explanation you could provide.
However, it sounds like he may be lying to you (which means he might not respect you anyway) and I would not expect a happy ending here if you choose to cut this guy's income. I don't think there is a good way to deliver this news, so you should simply deliver it professionally, without emotion.
After that, I'd come up with a contingency plan to get over the hump if/when this guy chooses to leave.
posted by PsuDab93 at 9:45 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
However, it sounds like he may be lying to you (which means he might not respect you anyway) and I would not expect a happy ending here if you choose to cut this guy's income. I don't think there is a good way to deliver this news, so you should simply deliver it professionally, without emotion.
After that, I'd come up with a contingency plan to get over the hump if/when this guy chooses to leave.
posted by PsuDab93 at 9:45 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is this person compensated fairly? It does not sound like it. If this position was fairly compensated, you would not have any trouble filling the position, would you?
Don't take hie performance personally. After 13 years of shitty pay, you could find a way to get this man a cell phone so he could use the app. Or make some other accommodation. Right?
It's your job to be direct and correct how he does his job. Why are you complaining about this?
I think it is OK to take away the extra stores if he can't service them due to distance. Whatever. If that reduces his compensation, then it gives him a chance to find another gig or make other arrangements.
In general though, it doesn't sound like you should protect the interests of a company that is underpaying folks. I make this assumption based on the fact that for some reason you can not easily find replacements (you term it a major problem to find new employees? really? isn't that your job to find a replacement?? so he doesn't do his job, but you not doing yours is ok?? I don't think the double standard is OK....)
Do whatever is kind. Stop taking this so personally.
posted by jbenben at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2015 [39 favorites]
Don't take hie performance personally. After 13 years of shitty pay, you could find a way to get this man a cell phone so he could use the app. Or make some other accommodation. Right?
It's your job to be direct and correct how he does his job. Why are you complaining about this?
I think it is OK to take away the extra stores if he can't service them due to distance. Whatever. If that reduces his compensation, then it gives him a chance to find another gig or make other arrangements.
In general though, it doesn't sound like you should protect the interests of a company that is underpaying folks. I make this assumption based on the fact that for some reason you can not easily find replacements (you term it a major problem to find new employees? really? isn't that your job to find a replacement?? so he doesn't do his job, but you not doing yours is ok?? I don't think the double standard is OK....)
Do whatever is kind. Stop taking this so personally.
posted by jbenben at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2015 [39 favorites]
Does he accept all these returns because he doesn't want to deal with them, because he doesn't want to change or because he's built up relationships with the managers at the stores where the assumption is that he takes returns on their request without pushback? Does he possibly view taking these returns as "good customer service"? Is there a way to make an announcement to the store managers about this grill situation if it's a recurring operator error problem?
If he does everything else well and has a lot of experience, I wonder if there's more to this than meets the eye. Is he the type of person you could talk to frankly about why he handles stuff this way?
posted by Frowner at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
If he does everything else well and has a lot of experience, I wonder if there's more to this than meets the eye. Is he the type of person you could talk to frankly about why he handles stuff this way?
posted by Frowner at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: To jbeben's point. I was thinking about increasing his pay. He's paid by store visit. I had a simple solution until payroll informed me about the mileage which I know he's basically considering income.
posted by Che boludo! at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by Che boludo! at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2015
Also, if you have interpersonal conflicts with him (which it sounds like you do) does anyone else work well with him? I've definitely been the Challenging-Staff-Member-whisperer in some jobs, where I could get people to do stuff through charm and being an equal rather than a supervisor.
posted by Frowner at 9:50 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by Frowner at 9:50 AM on September 1, 2015
How do I deliver this news to him?
Calmly, directly, and firmly. Document the meeting, what was said, what led up to it, etc.
But...
I should fire him for lying but due to the circumstances I still need him. Finding two new employees will be a major problem for me at this time.
Morbid colorful what-if I like to trot out around all sorts of...less-than-optimal management practices that orbit around viewing anyone as indispensable: what would you do if this guy got ran over by a truck tonight? Or more happily, won the lottery? Basically: if any number of things happened that suddenly made him an ex-employee in ways that were entirely out of your hands?
Replacing people is pretty much always going to be a major problem. Part of management is having to manage those problems; setting the precedent that bad behavior and performance issues are "safe" because the management structure would really rather not go through hassle of replacing people is...less than optimal.
You should also consider one possible outcome of even the best calmest delivery of the duties/scope/pay reduction is him stating "I quit," and walking out, and then that's right into hit-by-truck example again.
Good luck.
posted by Drastic at 9:51 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Calmly, directly, and firmly. Document the meeting, what was said, what led up to it, etc.
But...
I should fire him for lying but due to the circumstances I still need him. Finding two new employees will be a major problem for me at this time.
Morbid colorful what-if I like to trot out around all sorts of...less-than-optimal management practices that orbit around viewing anyone as indispensable: what would you do if this guy got ran over by a truck tonight? Or more happily, won the lottery? Basically: if any number of things happened that suddenly made him an ex-employee in ways that were entirely out of your hands?
Replacing people is pretty much always going to be a major problem. Part of management is having to manage those problems; setting the precedent that bad behavior and performance issues are "safe" because the management structure would really rather not go through hassle of replacing people is...less than optimal.
You should also consider one possible outcome of even the best calmest delivery of the duties/scope/pay reduction is him stating "I quit," and walking out, and then that's right into hit-by-truck example again.
Good luck.
posted by Drastic at 9:51 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: No interpersonal conflicts. I've actually been too nice.
posted by Che boludo! at 9:51 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by Che boludo! at 9:51 AM on September 1, 2015
To me it seems you have two separate problems, and they just happen to be with the same employee.
You might try writing up a policies and procedures for your RMAs, including an inspection checklist that must be ran through fully every time. Deploy this to all of your employees, as it's good business practice to begin with. If anyone is not following it, start whatever discipline procedures your company has. There's many reasons why he could've lied about them, including being overworked, or he may have just been confused about what grills you were talking about. If the behaviour continues, it's definitely a problem though.
The other issue is his territory and more specifically, mileage. You say he's doing a great job with everything but the RMAs, so just explain the mileage/expenses situation. Say it's costing the company too much and needs to be reorganized. Make sure he knows you appreciate the work he's doing and that it's not because he's bad at his job. (On preview it looks like you have the possibility to increase his pay, which would reinforce this idea even more.)
It's really unfortunate for him, but it is what it is.
posted by mayonnaises at 9:56 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
You might try writing up a policies and procedures for your RMAs, including an inspection checklist that must be ran through fully every time. Deploy this to all of your employees, as it's good business practice to begin with. If anyone is not following it, start whatever discipline procedures your company has. There's many reasons why he could've lied about them, including being overworked, or he may have just been confused about what grills you were talking about. If the behaviour continues, it's definitely a problem though.
The other issue is his territory and more specifically, mileage. You say he's doing a great job with everything but the RMAs, so just explain the mileage/expenses situation. Say it's costing the company too much and needs to be reorganized. Make sure he knows you appreciate the work he's doing and that it's not because he's bad at his job. (On preview it looks like you have the possibility to increase his pay, which would reinforce this idea even more.)
It's really unfortunate for him, but it is what it is.
posted by mayonnaises at 9:56 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
If he's using his own car and paying for his own gas, mileage reimbursement is not income.
posted by jaguar at 9:57 AM on September 1, 2015 [56 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 9:57 AM on September 1, 2015 [56 favorites]
Sometimes when you're managing personnel, you have to do things that make you uncomfortable. The best way to go about it is to be as clear and direct as possible about what the problems are, whatever decision you make. Of course, you may also be required to cover some corporate ass, depending on circumstances.
You should, though, probably look up labor laws in your state to see what they say about requiring employees to furnish their own tools, which is certainly what it looks like if you're requiring a computer or smartphone. If your company is large enough, they probably thought of this, but they could be just hoping nobody will notice.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:58 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
You should, though, probably look up labor laws in your state to see what they say about requiring employees to furnish their own tools, which is certainly what it looks like if you're requiring a computer or smartphone. If your company is large enough, they probably thought of this, but they could be just hoping nobody will notice.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:58 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Nth'ing ThePinkSuperhero and mayonnaises -- you have two separate issues here, and conflating them is the cause of your problem.
1 -- Employee's route is too big and is costing the company money.
2 -- Employee is not performing a particular duty to standard.
Look at #1 as a policy issue -- How big a route should one employee have? How many stores, how many miles, how much time... There are a lot of factors at play, and there should be a fairly consistent formula you can use (even if you have to devise it yourself) for 90 percent of such questions.
But #2 is an issue with a particular employee. Impress upon the employee the importance of performing that duty to your standard and the consequences of failure (both for the employee and the company).
And do these things entirely separate from each other. Divorce them in your mind. Do #1 now, shake out all its ramifications, and maybe in a month or so, you call in the employee and ask how the new route is going and give them a (formal or informal) performance review, and point out, "Hey, remember that thing about that grill that 'doesn't get hot enough'? Yeah, I really need you to be making sure it's not operator error," as one part of the overall review.
posted by Etrigan at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
1 -- Employee's route is too big and is costing the company money.
2 -- Employee is not performing a particular duty to standard.
Look at #1 as a policy issue -- How big a route should one employee have? How many stores, how many miles, how much time... There are a lot of factors at play, and there should be a fairly consistent formula you can use (even if you have to devise it yourself) for 90 percent of such questions.
But #2 is an issue with a particular employee. Impress upon the employee the importance of performing that duty to your standard and the consequences of failure (both for the employee and the company).
And do these things entirely separate from each other. Divorce them in your mind. Do #1 now, shake out all its ramifications, and maybe in a month or so, you call in the employee and ask how the new route is going and give them a (formal or informal) performance review, and point out, "Hey, remember that thing about that grill that 'doesn't get hot enough'? Yeah, I really need you to be making sure it's not operator error," as one part of the overall review.
posted by Etrigan at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Treat him like and adult and tell him the truth: that you are taking half his portfolio of stores away fr him because you don't think he is performing well enough to handle all that workload.
However, if your intention is to fire him ultimately, I think you should do it now and tell him why, even if it's painful. There's nothing worse than a scheming manager who uses people only because it's convenient for him or her.
posted by Kwadeng at 10:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
However, if your intention is to fire him ultimately, I think you should do it now and tell him why, even if it's painful. There's nothing worse than a scheming manager who uses people only because it's convenient for him or her.
posted by Kwadeng at 10:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
Phrases like "subtlety is not working" and " I've actually been too nice" make it really difficult to tell if you've been clear and direct with your expectations. As a manager I don't think relying on subtlety should come into play; you'll do yourself and your employees a disservice if you don't explicitly state your requirements for their performance.
I think ThePinkSuperhero's advice to label it a reorganization or maybe a restructuring is both true and neutral. You will need to continue to address the performance issue and especially the lying if that is truly what he was doing (pretty unacceptable). But if he will be obsolete without the app in a few months, that seems the larger issue to solve. Are there company issued phones?
posted by JenMarie at 10:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think ThePinkSuperhero's advice to label it a reorganization or maybe a restructuring is both true and neutral. You will need to continue to address the performance issue and especially the lying if that is truly what he was doing (pretty unacceptable). But if he will be obsolete without the app in a few months, that seems the larger issue to solve. Are there company issued phones?
posted by JenMarie at 10:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
DO NOT accuse this worker of "lying." I can't imagine hearing such an accusation in the workplace. That sort of thing leads to slashed tires in the company parking lot.
You need this worker, so he's obviously providing a valuable service to you. Cut down his service area to a manageable level for him.
posted by BostonTerrier at 10:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
You need this worker, so he's obviously providing a valuable service to you. Cut down his service area to a manageable level for him.
posted by BostonTerrier at 10:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Picking up on Etrigan and jbenben's points here: you don't have an employee problem so much as you have a process and policy problem that right now is mapped to a particular employee, and will only get fixed by addressing the policies and the processes. Welcome to management.
posted by holgate at 10:23 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by holgate at 10:23 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
I agree with others that this sounds like a problem with your company more so than a problem with the employee.
The employee doesn't have a mobile phone or computer, yet he needs one for work. Why is this his problem and not yours? Every job I've had has provided the tools I need to do my job.
The employee accrues a lot of miles visiting stores and you compensate him a lot for these miles. Why not shorten his route? Or give him a company car solely for driving his routes?
The employee has been accepting returns for something that's not really a problem because nobody ever trained him to not do that. Um, train him!
As an employer, you need to do your due diligence to give your employees the tools and training they need to get their job done. Sure, you could just fire them for not magically being able to read your mind and procure everything they need on their own, but I'm guessing you're not compensating enough to entice independently wealthy brilliant people to take this job.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:31 AM on September 1, 2015 [41 favorites]
The employee doesn't have a mobile phone or computer, yet he needs one for work. Why is this his problem and not yours? Every job I've had has provided the tools I need to do my job.
The employee accrues a lot of miles visiting stores and you compensate him a lot for these miles. Why not shorten his route? Or give him a company car solely for driving his routes?
The employee has been accepting returns for something that's not really a problem because nobody ever trained him to not do that. Um, train him!
As an employer, you need to do your due diligence to give your employees the tools and training they need to get their job done. Sure, you could just fire them for not magically being able to read your mind and procure everything they need on their own, but I'm guessing you're not compensating enough to entice independently wealthy brilliant people to take this job.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:31 AM on September 1, 2015 [41 favorites]
until payroll informed me about the mileage which I know he's basically considering income.
well, in all fairness to him it IS and SHOULD BE income because it's compensating him for the use, wear and tear on his personal vehicle. surely you don't expect him to use his personal vehicle for company business at no charge to the company, do you?
I know your question is how to "break the news" to him, but your account of all the problems makes your company sound very dysfunctional and you don't sound sure at all whether you're doing the right thing. My take on it is that you're being VERY unfair to him, basically scapegoating him for problems caused by dysfunction. The lying .. I don't see that as a HUGE problem, but rather one that can be corrected by very firm management. He is naturally resisting a change in management after years of dysfunction. If you make clear to him that you will be checking up on him, this is a last chance, etc., it may get through to him.
But after 13 years, and this is an old guy? you owe him more than this. the whole thing you're planning stinks ... wanting to fire him, still needing him, wanting to cut his accounts by half, begrudging him his mileage, not to mention all the uncertainty and amateurism you're showing in having to consult anonymous people on the internet for guidance about an important corporate decision with possibly legal ramifications ...
please be more fair and compassionate than this plan you've shared with us.
posted by jayder at 10:33 AM on September 1, 2015 [44 favorites]
well, in all fairness to him it IS and SHOULD BE income because it's compensating him for the use, wear and tear on his personal vehicle. surely you don't expect him to use his personal vehicle for company business at no charge to the company, do you?
I know your question is how to "break the news" to him, but your account of all the problems makes your company sound very dysfunctional and you don't sound sure at all whether you're doing the right thing. My take on it is that you're being VERY unfair to him, basically scapegoating him for problems caused by dysfunction. The lying .. I don't see that as a HUGE problem, but rather one that can be corrected by very firm management. He is naturally resisting a change in management after years of dysfunction. If you make clear to him that you will be checking up on him, this is a last chance, etc., it may get through to him.
But after 13 years, and this is an old guy? you owe him more than this. the whole thing you're planning stinks ... wanting to fire him, still needing him, wanting to cut his accounts by half, begrudging him his mileage, not to mention all the uncertainty and amateurism you're showing in having to consult anonymous people on the internet for guidance about an important corporate decision with possibly legal ramifications ...
please be more fair and compassionate than this plan you've shared with us.
posted by jayder at 10:33 AM on September 1, 2015 [44 favorites]
Have you talked to HR about what the process here needs to be and how you are supposed to document things? You need guidance here.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:13 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:13 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Your statement that he's using the mileage as income is inappropriate given gas prices + wear and tear to his car, as pointed out by others.
Your statement that he's using the mileage as income highlights that you haven't thought this through entirely. Also, it proves my premise that this person is grossly underpaid.
Similarly, I kinda wondered who this other person was who is willing to take over part of his (underpaid) job. A friend of yours or similar? IDK, this part seems weird.
Nthing that your company is dysfunctional if you're here asking this, but boy am I GLAD you are here asking this!!
Nthing he might be taking these returns occassionally to protect the overall account relationship, not to sass you or go against your directions (although, you admit you've been mostly less than direct with him, adding to the confusion...)
Please please back off this terrible idea you have. Get him a raise and resolve the mileage issue fairly. Maybe you can pursue additional sales accounts in his zone where your grills are sold? Then the company gets more sales and everybody wins??
posted by jbenben at 11:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Your statement that he's using the mileage as income highlights that you haven't thought this through entirely. Also, it proves my premise that this person is grossly underpaid.
Similarly, I kinda wondered who this other person was who is willing to take over part of his (underpaid) job. A friend of yours or similar? IDK, this part seems weird.
Nthing that your company is dysfunctional if you're here asking this, but boy am I GLAD you are here asking this!!
Nthing he might be taking these returns occassionally to protect the overall account relationship, not to sass you or go against your directions (although, you admit you've been mostly less than direct with him, adding to the confusion...)
Please please back off this terrible idea you have. Get him a raise and resolve the mileage issue fairly. Maybe you can pursue additional sales accounts in his zone where your grills are sold? Then the company gets more sales and everybody wins??
posted by jbenben at 11:22 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Also, if the company intends to require employees to use smartphones, the company should furnish them.
posted by Altomentis at 11:25 AM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by Altomentis at 11:25 AM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
He lied to me and has not been doing the job correctly anyway.
Yeah, you don't take away half of his responsibilities here, you take away all of them.
posted by mhoye at 11:27 AM on September 1, 2015
Yeah, you don't take away half of his responsibilities here, you take away all of them.
posted by mhoye at 11:27 AM on September 1, 2015
Most returns are “operator error” with the complaint being that “the grill won’t get hot enough”. This is easily correctable
All other issues aside, it seems like many returns could be prevented and much money saved (not to mention angst like this situation) with better documentation to the end user. Like a permanently affixed sticker with instructions to fix said problem.
Win-win: Consumer doesn't have to drag a huge item back to the store; manufacturer/supplier/retailer doesn't have to deal with unwarranted returns.
posted by sageleaf at 11:46 AM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
All other issues aside, it seems like many returns could be prevented and much money saved (not to mention angst like this situation) with better documentation to the end user. Like a permanently affixed sticker with instructions to fix said problem.
Win-win: Consumer doesn't have to drag a huge item back to the store; manufacturer/supplier/retailer doesn't have to deal with unwarranted returns.
posted by sageleaf at 11:46 AM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
Your predecessor explicitly trained him to do something different. Being "subtle" about changing the policy just makes you look passive-aggressive and makes your new requirements hard to follow. Sometimes policies change! You might find he has markedly less trouble adhering to company policy if he actually knows what it is.
Your predecessor couldn't be bothered to find a local replacement, and now you can't either. This isn't a good excuse to string this employee along. If a merchandising position is this hard to staff, the company is a bad employer. Your begrudging the employee mileage for driving routes I'm sure he didn't invent himself and evidently planning to fire him eventually because he doesn't have a personal cell phone makes it sound like your company has its priorities all out of whack and you're blaming him for the breakdown.
Maybe you should be firing this guy, but a lot of the problems here sound like the company's fault, not his. He's doing more than two people's work for I doubt double pay; why are you surprised he's dropping the ball on some stuff?
If you can get a good policy in place for the RMA, it sounds like he's a decent enough employee who's seriously overworked. There should at least be some reimbursement if you expect an employee to use his personal phone for the job. Why not split up his territory and pay him a decent wage for one person doing one job? If you're not actually paying a real wage for one person's share of stores, you're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
posted by hollyholly at 11:57 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Your predecessor couldn't be bothered to find a local replacement, and now you can't either. This isn't a good excuse to string this employee along. If a merchandising position is this hard to staff, the company is a bad employer. Your begrudging the employee mileage for driving routes I'm sure he didn't invent himself and evidently planning to fire him eventually because he doesn't have a personal cell phone makes it sound like your company has its priorities all out of whack and you're blaming him for the breakdown.
Maybe you should be firing this guy, but a lot of the problems here sound like the company's fault, not his. He's doing more than two people's work for I doubt double pay; why are you surprised he's dropping the ball on some stuff?
If you can get a good policy in place for the RMA, it sounds like he's a decent enough employee who's seriously overworked. There should at least be some reimbursement if you expect an employee to use his personal phone for the job. Why not split up his territory and pay him a decent wage for one person doing one job? If you're not actually paying a real wage for one person's share of stores, you're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
posted by hollyholly at 11:57 AM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Our company, dysfunctional? You have no idea. ;) I'm trying to clean things up here.
Regarding the mileage, we should not be paying somebody to drive 2 hours. This is the problem. He lives in Pueblo, CO and he drives two hours to Denver where we should have 2 to 3 local people. Often there is a need to be in the store within a couple of days and driving from Pueblo to Denver complicates that. Additionally, each 2 hour drive back and forth costs around $100 each time.
He started out just servicing Pueblo and CO. Springs and was later given stores in Denver. Somebody in Denver should have been hired to service those stores when we lost the previous merchandiser.
posted by Che boludo! at 12:01 PM on September 1, 2015
Regarding the mileage, we should not be paying somebody to drive 2 hours. This is the problem. He lives in Pueblo, CO and he drives two hours to Denver where we should have 2 to 3 local people. Often there is a need to be in the store within a couple of days and driving from Pueblo to Denver complicates that. Additionally, each 2 hour drive back and forth costs around $100 each time.
He started out just servicing Pueblo and CO. Springs and was later given stores in Denver. Somebody in Denver should have been hired to service those stores when we lost the previous merchandiser.
posted by Che boludo! at 12:01 PM on September 1, 2015
Response by poster: Also, he doesn't know how to use a computer so a smartphone is out.
posted by Che boludo! at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2015
posted by Che boludo! at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2015
There are three issues here:
1) You're not communicating clearly. You need to clearly set expectations, and be sure he fully understands them. Then if there's a gap between performance and those expectations, work together to decide how to address it (so that he'll have more buy-in into the solution). If the gap persists at that point, put him on an official PIP.
2) He lied. It's worth understanding why he felt he should lie, and then very clearly set an expectation that it won't be tolerated if it repeats. I'd write this up and put him on a PIP for this.
3) The territory may be poorly designed. If this is the case, fix the territory no matter how he performs.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 12:08 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
1) You're not communicating clearly. You need to clearly set expectations, and be sure he fully understands them. Then if there's a gap between performance and those expectations, work together to decide how to address it (so that he'll have more buy-in into the solution). If the gap persists at that point, put him on an official PIP.
2) He lied. It's worth understanding why he felt he should lie, and then very clearly set an expectation that it won't be tolerated if it repeats. I'd write this up and put him on a PIP for this.
3) The territory may be poorly designed. If this is the case, fix the territory no matter how he performs.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 12:08 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Train him on using a smartphone
Hire someone in Denver
Tell him exactly that old boss steered him wrong, that bad returns are expensive for the company, and that things need to be done a certain way, preferably with documentation of troubleshooting steps to be taken.
Add relevant info to end user documentation so that the call doesn't happen in the first place.
posted by rhizome at 12:11 PM on September 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
Hire someone in Denver
Tell him exactly that old boss steered him wrong, that bad returns are expensive for the company, and that things need to be done a certain way, preferably with documentation of troubleshooting steps to be taken.
Add relevant info to end user documentation so that the call doesn't happen in the first place.
posted by rhizome at 12:11 PM on September 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
It sounds like the job expectations he has been given and your expectations for his work do not line up. You really have multiple issues here: the fulfillment of job requirements, the disproportionate business expenses-to-salary ratio, and new job skills that he may need.
Why not clearly communicate expectations regarding evaluating the condition of products, eliminate excessive travel, and compensate him commensurate with his increased duties, which includes learning how to do minor data entry on a computer? I understand the hesitation in pushing him, but it's 2015 and you can't expect people in this line of employment to not be able to pick up minor computer skills. It's possible he'd be willing to do that, but you didn't make it clear whether he's expressed any opinion on it either way.
posted by mikeh at 12:15 PM on September 1, 2015
Why not clearly communicate expectations regarding evaluating the condition of products, eliminate excessive travel, and compensate him commensurate with his increased duties, which includes learning how to do minor data entry on a computer? I understand the hesitation in pushing him, but it's 2015 and you can't expect people in this line of employment to not be able to pick up minor computer skills. It's possible he'd be willing to do that, but you didn't make it clear whether he's expressed any opinion on it either way.
posted by mikeh at 12:15 PM on September 1, 2015
Okay, so I just saw that you're the guy with the "Dad's family business is a huge mess and he doesn't care" question from the other week. So yeah, you have to fix this, and you can't blame this guy because it's falling apart.
How is this guy being paid (apart from mileage, which is *not* income)? Why are you afraid of how he'd react if you saved him the hell of being a four-hour round trip from some of his accounts for only $25/hour - vehicle costs?
Why is he so irreplaceable right now, but won't be when the app drops? How the heck is your company completely incapable of training someone how to use a smartphone app? Can you imagine the meeting when you fire him after thirteen years because you didn't want to even *try* to train him on this new procedure?
posted by hollyholly at 12:15 PM on September 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
How is this guy being paid (apart from mileage, which is *not* income)? Why are you afraid of how he'd react if you saved him the hell of being a four-hour round trip from some of his accounts for only $25/hour - vehicle costs?
Why is he so irreplaceable right now, but won't be when the app drops? How the heck is your company completely incapable of training someone how to use a smartphone app? Can you imagine the meeting when you fire him after thirteen years because you didn't want to even *try* to train him on this new procedure?
posted by hollyholly at 12:15 PM on September 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
"Also, he doesn't know how to use a computer so a smartphone is out."
Smartphones are much easier than computers, I know you know this. It's weird that you've decided a smartphone is out of the question for him. Based on what? If his job depended on it, would he learn the app? PROBABLY.
it's 2015. He knows how to use a computer on some level. If he uses a card to get money from an ATM, groceries, or gas at the pump - he's using a computer. And that's just off the top of my head daily interactions he is having with computer technology.
Getting rid of the guy will not solve the dysfunctionality issues at this company. Why this employee is being punished because someone long ago decided his route included a city that is not cost effective.... I don't know. This employee is not the problem from the sounds of it. Firing him is not going to solve stuff. Altering his service area and fixing his compensation might help straighten stuff out.
After 13 years, I bet he knows a lot more than you do about the gig. Maybe you can work with him and use his knowledge. Even if you don't agree or take his perspective, he's probably has a lot to offer you.
This man is a human being with 13 years on the job. It's not his fault he has a route which is not cost effective. Surely you can make this work somehow?
posted by jbenben at 12:16 PM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
Smartphones are much easier than computers, I know you know this. It's weird that you've decided a smartphone is out of the question for him. Based on what? If his job depended on it, would he learn the app? PROBABLY.
it's 2015. He knows how to use a computer on some level. If he uses a card to get money from an ATM, groceries, or gas at the pump - he's using a computer. And that's just off the top of my head daily interactions he is having with computer technology.
Getting rid of the guy will not solve the dysfunctionality issues at this company. Why this employee is being punished because someone long ago decided his route included a city that is not cost effective.... I don't know. This employee is not the problem from the sounds of it. Firing him is not going to solve stuff. Altering his service area and fixing his compensation might help straighten stuff out.
After 13 years, I bet he knows a lot more than you do about the gig. Maybe you can work with him and use his knowledge. Even if you don't agree or take his perspective, he's probably has a lot to offer you.
This man is a human being with 13 years on the job. It's not his fault he has a route which is not cost effective. Surely you can make this work somehow?
posted by jbenben at 12:16 PM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
It's not his fault that he was “trained” to not reject grills by my predecessor
he doesn't know how to use a computer so a smartphone is out.
I'm seeing a lot of ways that the problem here is you not training the guy appropriately or communicating with him clearly and directly.
It sounds like he's very old and you're very young. This makes it hard for you to feel comfortable managing him, I bet, but you've got to step up and do that. It's not fair to fire him because you're uncomfortable. If you don't know how to effectively be a manager to this guy, can you ask for help from a trusted and more experienced person in your company?
posted by fritley at 12:19 PM on September 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
he doesn't know how to use a computer so a smartphone is out.
I'm seeing a lot of ways that the problem here is you not training the guy appropriately or communicating with him clearly and directly.
It sounds like he's very old and you're very young. This makes it hard for you to feel comfortable managing him, I bet, but you've got to step up and do that. It's not fair to fire him because you're uncomfortable. If you don't know how to effectively be a manager to this guy, can you ask for help from a trusted and more experienced person in your company?
posted by fritley at 12:19 PM on September 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
You're the manager and the owner's son? Hey! I'm a small family business owner, too.
First of all, managing includes teaching, communication and clarity. No more hinting. You lead by example. Take responsibility for your responsibilities.
- I still don't see why increasing the number of accounts in the area he can affordably service is not at the top of your list in resolving this issue fairly. I assume more sales accounts are in your best interest, no?
- Prove your authority by improving your leadership skills. Please don't make an example of this fellow to prove your authority.
- I think your dad and this employee might be the same age? Maybe he is a friend of your dad's? Don't fire this guy because you are mad at your father. This really seems to be the case. Your ire at this man seems disproportional to his culpability in the larger issue of how your family business was poorly run.
I'm going to try very hard to be kind and hope you can hear what I will impart next, even though I am truly frustrated you were willing to throw this guy under a bus for a bunch of stuff you admit is the fault of previous policies and managers.....
Your misplaced frustration and resulting antics will topple your family business quicker than overpaying mileage, or having to sell a few refurbished grills at reduced price. Seriously.
Get therapy and take some business courses if you need to get some perspective. Meditation apps will help you, believe it or not. If your business is in trouble, it's an open secret that "consultants" are often the vultures who show up to pick over the remains and strip you bare financially - high price & low return. Avoid them. You would do better to read management books and blogs + work with a really really great accountant.
I haven't read your previous question so I don't know how bad things are. I do know you are conflating some issues here.
posted by jbenben at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
First of all, managing includes teaching, communication and clarity. No more hinting. You lead by example. Take responsibility for your responsibilities.
- I still don't see why increasing the number of accounts in the area he can affordably service is not at the top of your list in resolving this issue fairly. I assume more sales accounts are in your best interest, no?
- Prove your authority by improving your leadership skills. Please don't make an example of this fellow to prove your authority.
- I think your dad and this employee might be the same age? Maybe he is a friend of your dad's? Don't fire this guy because you are mad at your father. This really seems to be the case. Your ire at this man seems disproportional to his culpability in the larger issue of how your family business was poorly run.
I'm going to try very hard to be kind and hope you can hear what I will impart next, even though I am truly frustrated you were willing to throw this guy under a bus for a bunch of stuff you admit is the fault of previous policies and managers.....
Your misplaced frustration and resulting antics will topple your family business quicker than overpaying mileage, or having to sell a few refurbished grills at reduced price. Seriously.
Get therapy and take some business courses if you need to get some perspective. Meditation apps will help you, believe it or not. If your business is in trouble, it's an open secret that "consultants" are often the vultures who show up to pick over the remains and strip you bare financially - high price & low return. Avoid them. You would do better to read management books and blogs + work with a really really great accountant.
I haven't read your previous question so I don't know how bad things are. I do know you are conflating some issues here.
posted by jbenben at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
As others have said, you have several issues here, and to me it sounds like none of them are the employee's fault. You say you are new to managing. Here's a tip: the best managers are ones who set their employees up to succeed, supporting them as needed. You need to communicate directly, face-to-face, with this man. Go on his route with him and observe his interactions with the stores. Get him a smartphone, train him on the app. Ask him how he thinks the problems that you have can be solved -- I bet he has a lot of ideas. Allow his experience to work for both of you, instead of these bad procedures to work against everyone. Please don't use him poorly and then discard him. Be the boss you'd like to have.
posted by clone boulevard at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by clone boulevard at 12:39 PM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
You don't have to distinguish yourself from your predecessor by doing stuff like this. You have their job, remember?
Solid, long-term employees like this guy, who are actually in the field, working directly with the stores who sell your - and, presumably, your competitors' - products are worth their weight in gold.
Don't fire him. Re-train him and offer him support. Ask him his salary requirements, offer him a smartphone and a company car. Work with him to make him better at his job. He knows your product and your vendors; he knows stuff you don't know.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 12:49 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Solid, long-term employees like this guy, who are actually in the field, working directly with the stores who sell your - and, presumably, your competitors' - products are worth their weight in gold.
Don't fire him. Re-train him and offer him support. Ask him his salary requirements, offer him a smartphone and a company car. Work with him to make him better at his job. He knows your product and your vendors; he knows stuff you don't know.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 12:49 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Another thing worth mentioning.
Do you know how hard it is to find someone who will stay on with a business for 13 years? That is an eternity these days. And according to you, this man stuck it out through some very dysfunctional, troubled times at the company. Employees like that are really hard to find and the loyalty that he has shown to your company is deserving of some reciprocal loyalty from the company toward him.
It's penny wise and pound foolish, not to mention grossly unfair, to ditch such a loyal employee because of complaints like the ones you've voiced here.
posted by jayder at 1:02 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Do you know how hard it is to find someone who will stay on with a business for 13 years? That is an eternity these days. And according to you, this man stuck it out through some very dysfunctional, troubled times at the company. Employees like that are really hard to find and the loyalty that he has shown to your company is deserving of some reciprocal loyalty from the company toward him.
It's penny wise and pound foolish, not to mention grossly unfair, to ditch such a loyal employee because of complaints like the ones you've voiced here.
posted by jayder at 1:02 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
I am not in the retail field, but I just finished Chess Not Checkers: Elevate Your Leadership Game, which is a easy-to-read basic management book. It offers some solid advice about how to view employees as valuable assets rather than problems, and it could be a help to you at this stage. Best of luck.
posted by amicamentis at 1:04 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by amicamentis at 1:04 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One comment deleted. Folks, please stick to the "how to handle this employee situation" question. OP is not anon, other advice on other subjects you can just mail them. And if you've already commented in here several times, please leave it there rather than coming back to repeat. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:53 PM on September 1, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:53 PM on September 1, 2015
I'm mostly ignoring all the discussion about whether or not you should be taking this action and assuming that your analysis of the business case for making this decision is trustworthy. If you are open to the idea, you might be able to use your position of authority to improve his performance, particularly if your concern is mostly limited to just the question of return authorization.
I'm afraid that the central answer to your question "How do I cut someone's income in half without causing him to quit" is that there may well be no way to accomplish that. If your employee has been there for 13 years and generally performs many of his duties "extremely well" it is likely that he will be surprised and angry about what it is clearly a significant paycut and demotion from his perspective. The only two scenarios that seem likely to me are that he will either quit on the spot or that he will immediately begin considering his other options with an eye towards quitting in the near future. You are probably best situated to decide which is more likely. Your best case scenario is that he will be unable to complete his move to another job before your plan to replace him is ready, but it is quite possible that he either reacts emotionally immediately or is able to find a suitable replacement job that provides half his current income relatively easily. Under the circumstances, he is likely to find alternate employment that pays even a bit less than what you propose to be a superior solution to continued employment with you.
It sounds like you have the Denver area route potentially covered, so you need to decide how serious of a problem the southern route will be for you if he reacts by quitting in the next week or so. If you believe you can handle the consequences, proceed apace. If you cannot, start making preparations to replace him now and don't take action until you are prepared to deal with it.
The only way to get employees to take a pay cut and remain loyal I've ever seen is in reaction to some kind of shared suffering, like the loss of a major client that forces layoffs and salary reductions, and even then some people will (quite understandably) react very badly to the idea. Even then, you would need a plan for recovery that the employees will share in down the road. In this case, your plan is to give him a 50%+ paycut and then terminate him later. A salary cut that is partially or completely motivated by poor performance is never going to be received well.
You also might want to consult with an employment attorney, because an assumption that an older worker will not be able to use a smart phone without any direct communication from the worker agreeing with that conclusion or an objective test measuring his competance might well be unlawful discrimination based on age. Your exposure to litigation based on this claim may depend on the size of your firm and the employment laws in your state, but I think it is potentially a serious concern. Terminating him for a different reason after you have expressed the view that you will inevitably terminate him for this reason in public will raise concerns that your new reason is merely pretext to conceal discriminatory intent.
posted by Lame_username at 2:13 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm afraid that the central answer to your question "How do I cut someone's income in half without causing him to quit" is that there may well be no way to accomplish that. If your employee has been there for 13 years and generally performs many of his duties "extremely well" it is likely that he will be surprised and angry about what it is clearly a significant paycut and demotion from his perspective. The only two scenarios that seem likely to me are that he will either quit on the spot or that he will immediately begin considering his other options with an eye towards quitting in the near future. You are probably best situated to decide which is more likely. Your best case scenario is that he will be unable to complete his move to another job before your plan to replace him is ready, but it is quite possible that he either reacts emotionally immediately or is able to find a suitable replacement job that provides half his current income relatively easily. Under the circumstances, he is likely to find alternate employment that pays even a bit less than what you propose to be a superior solution to continued employment with you.
It sounds like you have the Denver area route potentially covered, so you need to decide how serious of a problem the southern route will be for you if he reacts by quitting in the next week or so. If you believe you can handle the consequences, proceed apace. If you cannot, start making preparations to replace him now and don't take action until you are prepared to deal with it.
The only way to get employees to take a pay cut and remain loyal I've ever seen is in reaction to some kind of shared suffering, like the loss of a major client that forces layoffs and salary reductions, and even then some people will (quite understandably) react very badly to the idea. Even then, you would need a plan for recovery that the employees will share in down the road. In this case, your plan is to give him a 50%+ paycut and then terminate him later. A salary cut that is partially or completely motivated by poor performance is never going to be received well.
You also might want to consult with an employment attorney, because an assumption that an older worker will not be able to use a smart phone without any direct communication from the worker agreeing with that conclusion or an objective test measuring his competance might well be unlawful discrimination based on age. Your exposure to litigation based on this claim may depend on the size of your firm and the employment laws in your state, but I think it is potentially a serious concern. Terminating him for a different reason after you have expressed the view that you will inevitably terminate him for this reason in public will raise concerns that your new reason is merely pretext to conceal discriminatory intent.
posted by Lame_username at 2:13 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
You need to boil this hot mess down to something actionable. Right now this is far too convoluted to take to an employee. Let knock out some of the fluff.
- You've got stuff about your predecessor and route size - this has nothing to do with your employee. He didn't make the decision and you perpetuated it. This is not his performance issue; it's yours.
- He doesn't own a smart phone. If he needs a piece of equipment to do the job, then the company should procure one for him. This is not his performance issue.
- He was not correctly trained. This is your problem as his manager. Fix it.
- You say he lied. I would say you disagree about the reason for the return. You need to have much, much better evidence than you've laid out here to accuse a long-time employee of lying.
You have an employee who is servicing a route which is too large. He does most of his work correctly and has an area of performance deficiency. This is what Performance Improvement Plans are meant to address. He should be on a PIP and your HR contact should help you.
I'll be honest with you. The fact that you hop immediately to firing someone who you know is incorrectly trained but who generally does a solid job with a big route, does not bode well for your readiness as a manager of staff. You are also blaming him for stuff YOU need to fix as his manager. You give people feedback and PIP, then move on termination.
posted by 26.2 at 3:19 PM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
- You've got stuff about your predecessor and route size - this has nothing to do with your employee. He didn't make the decision and you perpetuated it. This is not his performance issue; it's yours.
- He doesn't own a smart phone. If he needs a piece of equipment to do the job, then the company should procure one for him. This is not his performance issue.
- He was not correctly trained. This is your problem as his manager. Fix it.
- You say he lied. I would say you disagree about the reason for the return. You need to have much, much better evidence than you've laid out here to accuse a long-time employee of lying.
You have an employee who is servicing a route which is too large. He does most of his work correctly and has an area of performance deficiency. This is what Performance Improvement Plans are meant to address. He should be on a PIP and your HR contact should help you.
I'll be honest with you. The fact that you hop immediately to firing someone who you know is incorrectly trained but who generally does a solid job with a big route, does not bode well for your readiness as a manager of staff. You are also blaming him for stuff YOU need to fix as his manager. You give people feedback and PIP, then move on termination.
posted by 26.2 at 3:19 PM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
I'm doing horrible layoffs due to budget restructuring and getting massive pushback from staff who are staying and going. So here's another note to add: if you cut the pay or fire this 13-year serving generally good performing staff, you are going to lose other good staff.
They might not quit outright, but they won't give you their best anymore or help you. They will see you as a manager who didn't try to help a loyal committed staff member struggling, and you will lose their goodwill.
I am very lucky to have budget cuts to blame for the restructuring but when I've had to lay off or fire people previously, it's been better overall for the company to do a PIP first, find an alternative role for the person or negotiate a generous severance package with a mutually happy story about early retirement than firing. I've only fired outright for gross errors like financial fraud, same day dismissal. Everything else - your staff aren't robots. They'll talk to each other and their sympathies and knowledge is with each other. You can't tell them your side of the story without breaking HR confidentiality and looking incredibly petty and mean. Even if this one employee is a dud, treating him with respect and good management will help get you co-operation and alliances from your other employees. Also you will sleep better at night.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 3:51 PM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
They might not quit outright, but they won't give you their best anymore or help you. They will see you as a manager who didn't try to help a loyal committed staff member struggling, and you will lose their goodwill.
I am very lucky to have budget cuts to blame for the restructuring but when I've had to lay off or fire people previously, it's been better overall for the company to do a PIP first, find an alternative role for the person or negotiate a generous severance package with a mutually happy story about early retirement than firing. I've only fired outright for gross errors like financial fraud, same day dismissal. Everything else - your staff aren't robots. They'll talk to each other and their sympathies and knowledge is with each other. You can't tell them your side of the story without breaking HR confidentiality and looking incredibly petty and mean. Even if this one employee is a dud, treating him with respect and good management will help get you co-operation and alliances from your other employees. Also you will sleep better at night.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 3:51 PM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
No matter how dysfunctional the organization is there is someone somewhere having a heart attack at the thought of a new manager posting to AskMetafilter for guidance instead of reaching out to them. There is someone you should be calling in HR for guidance and you should do that. Not least of all, it sounds like this man is over 40 and one of the problems you have is that he is not tech savvy. That does not look super awesome to anyone but his potential lawyers. Especially if you are a new manager and especially if you have never fired someone before (or, it sounds like, performance-managed) you need to reach out to HR.
posted by good lorneing at 5:37 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by good lorneing at 5:37 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the level of information you're sharing here makes this guy identifiable to anyone who knows his line of work and a few additional details, and may also make you identifiable - assuming that you haven't altered any location / industry details.
That could potentially make things pretty awkward for you both.
posted by bunderful at 6:17 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
That could potentially make things pretty awkward for you both.
posted by bunderful at 6:17 PM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Okay old mate, I understand that things used to be done a certain way around here and from all reports you've always done a great job. However things are being done differently now and you need to keep up, because it's a doggy-dog world out there. Here is a mobile phone and you will get training in the new app. I expect you to be across this quickly, and we will be reviewing your improved performance in a fortnight's time. Let me know if you have any questions and we'll do what we can to help."
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:24 PM on September 1, 2015
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:24 PM on September 1, 2015
I would bristle visibly at that phrasing.
posted by rhizome at 6:32 PM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 6:32 PM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
So would I if it was coming from my friend and not my boss.
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:38 PM on September 1, 2015
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:38 PM on September 1, 2015
Nothing you should be providing this person with a smartphone AND the five minutes of training in how to open an ap and use it. This is not a deal breaker. This is a less then twenty minute hurdle at most.
posted by Kalmya at 7:43 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Kalmya at 7:43 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
You have two problems.
1) Employee is inadequately trained. Both the new app and the new procedure (don't accept returns for user error) can be taught, so teach them.
2) The employee's route isn't cost effective. Reducing the route he services will reduce his pay. He does have 13 years of experience; is there another task that he could do, making use of his experience, so his pay isn't cut in half? It would be easiest if you could grow the southern route; maybe he can help with that? Or maybe he can help train new people, or write materials to do so. Maybe he knows of retailer or end-user problems that don't always make it back to the head office.
Can you ask him to suggest a way to propogate the info customers need so they don't return the grill for user error reasons? Or even to suggest a way that the object itself can be changed so people don't keep making the same error?
posted by nat at 11:41 PM on September 1, 2015
1) Employee is inadequately trained. Both the new app and the new procedure (don't accept returns for user error) can be taught, so teach them.
2) The employee's route isn't cost effective. Reducing the route he services will reduce his pay. He does have 13 years of experience; is there another task that he could do, making use of his experience, so his pay isn't cut in half? It would be easiest if you could grow the southern route; maybe he can help with that? Or maybe he can help train new people, or write materials to do so. Maybe he knows of retailer or end-user problems that don't always make it back to the head office.
Can you ask him to suggest a way to propogate the info customers need so they don't return the grill for user error reasons? Or even to suggest a way that the object itself can be changed so people don't keep making the same error?
posted by nat at 11:41 PM on September 1, 2015
Response by poster: Hi everybody and thanks for your advice and input. If anybody is still reading this I kept a few details out to try and keep things simple.
My company is not the grill manufacturer but a contracted group.
This gentleman is a contracted worker and not an employee.
He’s not really an employee but a contracted merchandiser and he gets paid by store visit. People doing this job usually work for several companies and don’t get mileage because the different companies don’t want to have the person collect mileage from several companies.
Equipment like phones and service are the responsibility of the merchandiser, not us. His current phone is an old flip phone and he can’t even receive text message because he has the service turned off.
It’s not that I don’t want to train him on the app but it’s that I don’t have confidence in his ability to use a smart phone. Just the other day he told me, “I don’t know how you use computers.” He is 100% analog and very resistant to change.
I have told him how to inspect the product and provided him the tools a year ago and he just hasn’t been doing it. I have told him explicitly several times that this is a requirement of the job. All it takes is connecting a small 1 lb. bottle of tank to the grill and waiting to see if it gets to the proper temperature. It is a very simple procedure.
He also told me the other day that, “I just can’t wrap his mind around telling the store no when the grill has already been returned.” Our policy at the corporate level says we will not credit stores for grills taken back if not defective. This is why we inspect the grills.
I calculate that this is costing the BBQ company about $20,000 a year at a minimum. If we get audited we are done and several people lose their job.
The mileage costs us over $5000 annually. He should have never been given anything in Denver. A person should be working close to the stores to avoid excessive mileage costs and to be able to run out and do an inspection in a few days and not have to wait for somebody two hours away to find the time to make the trip.
We are a very small company and the only people in our office are myself, my assistant who points out inspection problems, our bookkeeper who is concerned about the mileage costs and the boss who doesn’t want to pay extra costs. There will be no morale problems with the employees.
What I think I am going to do is give him a raise but cut back his stores to a reasonable amount and to minimize any lost income on the condition that he meets job requirements. I will also ask how he feels about using a smart phone and see how his reaction is.
posted by Che boludo! at 8:37 AM on September 2, 2015
My company is not the grill manufacturer but a contracted group.
This gentleman is a contracted worker and not an employee.
He’s not really an employee but a contracted merchandiser and he gets paid by store visit. People doing this job usually work for several companies and don’t get mileage because the different companies don’t want to have the person collect mileage from several companies.
Equipment like phones and service are the responsibility of the merchandiser, not us. His current phone is an old flip phone and he can’t even receive text message because he has the service turned off.
It’s not that I don’t want to train him on the app but it’s that I don’t have confidence in his ability to use a smart phone. Just the other day he told me, “I don’t know how you use computers.” He is 100% analog and very resistant to change.
I have told him how to inspect the product and provided him the tools a year ago and he just hasn’t been doing it. I have told him explicitly several times that this is a requirement of the job. All it takes is connecting a small 1 lb. bottle of tank to the grill and waiting to see if it gets to the proper temperature. It is a very simple procedure.
He also told me the other day that, “I just can’t wrap his mind around telling the store no when the grill has already been returned.” Our policy at the corporate level says we will not credit stores for grills taken back if not defective. This is why we inspect the grills.
I calculate that this is costing the BBQ company about $20,000 a year at a minimum. If we get audited we are done and several people lose their job.
The mileage costs us over $5000 annually. He should have never been given anything in Denver. A person should be working close to the stores to avoid excessive mileage costs and to be able to run out and do an inspection in a few days and not have to wait for somebody two hours away to find the time to make the trip.
We are a very small company and the only people in our office are myself, my assistant who points out inspection problems, our bookkeeper who is concerned about the mileage costs and the boss who doesn’t want to pay extra costs. There will be no morale problems with the employees.
What I think I am going to do is give him a raise but cut back his stores to a reasonable amount and to minimize any lost income on the condition that he meets job requirements. I will also ask how he feels about using a smart phone and see how his reaction is.
posted by Che boludo! at 8:37 AM on September 2, 2015
Maybe show him the smart phone - don't just ask. I have noticed (as a late adapter!) that seeing someone go through a process slowly really makes me feel more like I can use a thing. Also, I would get the guy a smart phone - he's far more likely to be comfortable using it if you take it out of the box together, get it set up and go over using the ap a couple of times. If he has to order it, set it up, etc, he may feel overwhelmed.
Lots of people go from "never used a computer" to "using smart phone" with no intermediate step - consider all those people in the developing world, where smart phones are coming in.
posted by Frowner at 8:51 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Lots of people go from "never used a computer" to "using smart phone" with no intermediate step - consider all those people in the developing world, where smart phones are coming in.
posted by Frowner at 8:51 AM on September 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
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