Music with silence
December 5, 2005 5:45 PM Subscribe
Looking for music with interesting or creative uses of silence. Please no John Cage.
I know it's not completely what you're thinking of, but what about Richard Hell and the Voidoids 1977 NY punk anthem "Blank Generation"?
If my memory is correct, a musician named Edgar Verse, wrote "Ionisation" in 1931 that might work.
posted by carabiner at 6:01 PM on December 5, 2005
If my memory is correct, a musician named Edgar Verse, wrote "Ionisation" in 1931 that might work.
posted by carabiner at 6:01 PM on December 5, 2005
The song that springs to mind is All I Really Want by Alanis Morissette.
posted by amro at 6:08 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by amro at 6:08 PM on December 5, 2005
Best answer: Anouar Brahem: A Tunisian oud player whose music is filled with beautiful space. He has a handful of albums out on ECM Records, of which I'd most recommend the latest, Le Pas du Chat Noir.
posted by mykescipark at 6:14 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by mykescipark at 6:14 PM on December 5, 2005
Check out this "Mocumentary" about silent music.
http://www.archive.org/details/JohnHidalgoBarnesThesoundofsilence
posted by Infernarl at 6:18 PM on December 5, 2005
http://www.archive.org/details/JohnHidalgoBarnesThesoundofsilence
posted by Infernarl at 6:18 PM on December 5, 2005
Moody Blues' Procession is one random song that comes to mind.
posted by rolypolyman at 6:25 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by rolypolyman at 6:25 PM on December 5, 2005
Beastie Boys known to let the beat....
drrrrooopp.
posted by stovenator at 6:26 PM on December 5, 2005
drrrrooopp.
posted by stovenator at 6:26 PM on December 5, 2005
Popular music will occasionally use a sudden pause in the music, sometimes immediately following a lyrical suggestion (see X-Press 2 with David Byrne - Lazy). Just by Radiohead has one. It'd probably be inappropriate to mention hidden tracks that use a pause at the end of the album since it's kind of a spoiler (though critics always do it).
posted by abcde at 6:27 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by abcde at 6:27 PM on December 5, 2005
Response by poster: I'm sorry, I should have specified that I'm not interested in "dropouts" like you'd find in some hiphop tracks.
Also, I'm much more interested in music that isn't based so much on melody or rythm; I'm more interested in modern music, creative music, old traditional music, world music, improvised music, & areas like that.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:38 PM on December 5, 2005
Also, I'm much more interested in music that isn't based so much on melody or rythm; I'm more interested in modern music, creative music, old traditional music, world music, improvised music, & areas like that.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:38 PM on December 5, 2005
traditional, world, and improvised music aren't based so much on melody or rhythm?
posted by rxrfrx at 6:56 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by rxrfrx at 6:56 PM on December 5, 2005
"The Little Girl I Once Knew" was a mid-60s (1965?) single the Beach Boys put out that didn't get much radio play because it had silent gaps that made the DJs uncomfortable.
posted by clarahamster at 6:59 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by clarahamster at 6:59 PM on December 5, 2005
Bodysong is a soundtrack created by Jonny Greenwood (of Radiohead) that utilizes many different forms of silence. Although I would not say it "isn't based so much on melody or rythm [sic]", I would call it modern and creative and very much influenced by world music.
posted by muddgirl at 7:02 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by muddgirl at 7:02 PM on December 5, 2005
Response by poster: rxrfrx - Sorry, I meant those ideas to be separate. Bad writing. I meant I consider a single dropout in a beat to not be an "interesting or creative use of silence". My bad.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:06 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:06 PM on December 5, 2005
Response by poster: And some of my interest in this area is being spurred by recent music from Taku Sugimoto and Radu Malfatti, who have been doing stuff like 30-60 minute pieces with 5-10 notes (total) in the entire stretch.
I'm not just looking for stuff that extreme, though, gagaku & pansori (japanese & corean trad musics) are also very interesting to me.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:08 PM on December 5, 2005
I'm not just looking for stuff that extreme, though, gagaku & pansori (japanese & corean trad musics) are also very interesting to me.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:08 PM on December 5, 2005
Best answer: It's a bit of a cliché to recommend his work, but some of Erik Satie's more well-known piano music has quite a stately quality to it, depending on whose performance you listen to. Thinking particularly of the Gnossiennes here.
Also, try the Silent Songs of Valentin Silvestrov - Russian vocal and piano music, somber and stately in its own way, quite a lot of gravitas.
There's an astonishing Bulgarian vocal quartet, Eva Quartet, whose album Harmonies is recorded in a manner most atypical of Bulgarian vocal music, with a very dry, clean sound. The arrangements' use of silence and very deliberate pacing is quite disarming in such a raw, unprocessed setting. To say nothing of how gorgeous the music itself is. I don't believe their album is too widely available, but Radio Bulgaria's daily Windows Media "summary broadcast" had a nice feature on them yesterday.
posted by mykescipark at 7:20 PM on December 5, 2005
Also, try the Silent Songs of Valentin Silvestrov - Russian vocal and piano music, somber and stately in its own way, quite a lot of gravitas.
There's an astonishing Bulgarian vocal quartet, Eva Quartet, whose album Harmonies is recorded in a manner most atypical of Bulgarian vocal music, with a very dry, clean sound. The arrangements' use of silence and very deliberate pacing is quite disarming in such a raw, unprocessed setting. To say nothing of how gorgeous the music itself is. I don't believe their album is too widely available, but Radio Bulgaria's daily Windows Media "summary broadcast" had a nice feature on them yesterday.
posted by mykescipark at 7:20 PM on December 5, 2005
Gerard Grisey's Vortex Temporum has an amazing, virtuosic piano solo in it full of startling and evocative silences.
In fact, much of the music of the spectralists (Grisey, Tristan Murail, Claude Vivier, Hugues Dufourt, and others) might interest you; while they don't all deal with silence, they're preoccupied with slowing time down and letting you hear the individual components of a sound.
Would you consider very quiet music that is highly textured? Then you might be interested in the lowercase movement in jazz.
(Sorry about the crappy links; the internet is still surprisingly and disturbingly bad at having good information on avant-garde music.)
posted by speicus at 8:11 PM on December 5, 2005
In fact, much of the music of the spectralists (Grisey, Tristan Murail, Claude Vivier, Hugues Dufourt, and others) might interest you; while they don't all deal with silence, they're preoccupied with slowing time down and letting you hear the individual components of a sound.
Would you consider very quiet music that is highly textured? Then you might be interested in the lowercase movement in jazz.
(Sorry about the crappy links; the internet is still surprisingly and disturbingly bad at having good information on avant-garde music.)
posted by speicus at 8:11 PM on December 5, 2005
Oh! And you must hear Alvin Lucier's I am sitting in a room.
posted by speicus at 8:13 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by speicus at 8:13 PM on December 5, 2005
I'm shocked and amazed that no one has mentioned "Enjoy the Silence" by Depeche Mode.
posted by JMOZ at 8:16 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by JMOZ at 8:16 PM on December 5, 2005
Response by poster: of the lowercase stuff, the nmperign is my favorite, along with James Coleman's "Zuihitsu."
I am looking for actual silence, though, not just very quiet.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:19 PM on December 5, 2005
I am looking for actual silence, though, not just very quiet.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:19 PM on December 5, 2005
Response by poster: I know the Lucier you mention. Are there other Lucier pieces that make significant use of silence?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:20 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:20 PM on December 5, 2005
I'm shocked and amazed that no one has mentioned "antici . . . pation."
posted by booksandlibretti at 9:12 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by booksandlibretti at 9:12 PM on December 5, 2005
Lick, by composer Julia Wolfe (who is part of Bang On A Can). Very interesting use of silence... there will be a sharp attack, then several beats of rest, then another attack and so forth.
posted by the_bone at 9:35 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by the_bone at 9:35 PM on December 5, 2005
Count Basie is known for, among other things, his wonderfully artful use of silence in his solos. Try the stuff he recorded for Decca during 1937-39 to hear a master using space and simplicity to great effect on some amazing big-band grooves. A quick search pulls up this from Britannica:
Whereas other pianists were noted for technical flash and dazzling dexterity, Basie was known for his use of silence and for reducing his solo passages to the minimum amount of notes required for maximum emotional and rhythmic effect. As one Basie band member put it, “Count don't do nothin'. But it sure sounds good.”
The style was so recognizable Slim Gaillard could parody it in "Opera in Vout (Groove Juice Symphony)" during the late 40s. Once you know to listen for it, you'll never hear Basie the same way again.
posted by mediareport at 9:36 PM on December 5, 2005
Whereas other pianists were noted for technical flash and dazzling dexterity, Basie was known for his use of silence and for reducing his solo passages to the minimum amount of notes required for maximum emotional and rhythmic effect. As one Basie band member put it, “Count don't do nothin'. But it sure sounds good.”
The style was so recognizable Slim Gaillard could parody it in "Opera in Vout (Groove Juice Symphony)" during the late 40s. Once you know to listen for it, you'll never hear Basie the same way again.
posted by mediareport at 9:36 PM on December 5, 2005
Best answer: i believe tom johnson's "failing: a very difficult piece for solo string bass" contains some silences, though they may be optional, as much is left to the performer's discretion and/or abilities.
posted by judith at 9:52 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by judith at 9:52 PM on December 5, 2005
The entire onkyo improv scene from Japan (though I think it might be called something else now). Think small, brittle sounds improvised around vast silences, and you'll have a good idea what some of this sounds like.
Ami Yoshida, Sachiko M, Taku Sugimoto, Toshimaru Nakamura, Yumiko Tanaka, and Otomo Yoshihide are some big examples. A lot of this is documented at Improvised Music from Japan. Keiji Haino isn't on that page, but a good deal of his, say, less maximalist work is like this, too.
A similar aesthetic is found in some of the work by European improvisers and groups like AMM, Keith Rowe (occasionally a part of AMM), Philip Samartzis, Rhodri Davies, Sean Meechan, Günter Müller, and bunches more I can't think of off the top of my head. nmperign fits in here really well, though I've never heard any call it "lowercase" anything (non-idiomatic free improv, sure...).
Also, I don't know how familiar you are with John Cage and silence, but if all you know is 4'33", then look again--there's a lot more to it.
Last one: in the same vein as Anouar Brahem, check out Munir Bashir, another oud player...
posted by hototogisu at 11:03 PM on December 5, 2005
Ami Yoshida, Sachiko M, Taku Sugimoto, Toshimaru Nakamura, Yumiko Tanaka, and Otomo Yoshihide are some big examples. A lot of this is documented at Improvised Music from Japan. Keiji Haino isn't on that page, but a good deal of his, say, less maximalist work is like this, too.
A similar aesthetic is found in some of the work by European improvisers and groups like AMM, Keith Rowe (occasionally a part of AMM), Philip Samartzis, Rhodri Davies, Sean Meechan, Günter Müller, and bunches more I can't think of off the top of my head. nmperign fits in here really well, though I've never heard any call it "lowercase" anything (non-idiomatic free improv, sure...).
Also, I don't know how familiar you are with John Cage and silence, but if all you know is 4'33", then look again--there's a lot more to it.
Last one: in the same vein as Anouar Brahem, check out Munir Bashir, another oud player...
posted by hototogisu at 11:03 PM on December 5, 2005
Actually, I added a c there. Should be Sean Meehan. If you know someone as obscure as know Lucier, so surely you know Arvo Pärt?
posted by hototogisu at 11:33 PM on December 5, 2005
posted by hototogisu at 11:33 PM on December 5, 2005
Hmm. Brian Eno may fit...my first thought was "Needles In The Camel's Eye", but "1/1" from Music For Airports seems much closer to what you had in mind.
posted by Vervain at 12:01 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by Vervain at 12:01 AM on December 6, 2005
Einstürzende Neubauten are excellent manipulators of silence, and I'm not talking about that "Silence is Sexy" stuff.
"Jam Session of Tsugaru-Shamisen" has some nice use of silence in it, as does Japanese Koto music.
Total cliché, but since no one's mentioned it yet, Eno's "Music for Airports" sticks out in my mind as an obvious champion of negative space.
If I had to narrow it down to geographic regions, I'd say look to the Germans and Japanese.
Just for the hell of it - I still remember the first time I heard the dead air at the end of the Pointer Sisters' version of "Fire".
posted by hellbient at 12:07 AM on December 6, 2005
"Jam Session of Tsugaru-Shamisen" has some nice use of silence in it, as does Japanese Koto music.
Total cliché, but since no one's mentioned it yet, Eno's "Music for Airports" sticks out in my mind as an obvious champion of negative space.
If I had to narrow it down to geographic regions, I'd say look to the Germans and Japanese.
Just for the hell of it - I still remember the first time I heard the dead air at the end of the Pointer Sisters' version of "Fire".
posted by hellbient at 12:07 AM on December 6, 2005
I thought of another one -- the opera De Stijl by Louis Andriessen. Specifically the beginning, which has big block chords bracketed by ever-diminishing silences. Powerful stuff.
posted by speicus at 12:55 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by speicus at 12:55 AM on December 6, 2005
Xiu Xiu's "Crank Heart" has some perplexing silent moments in it too. Just postin' em as I'm thinkin' of em.
posted by speicus at 12:57 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by speicus at 12:57 AM on December 6, 2005
Response by poster: hototogisu: those are people I play with (and taku sugimoto, who I mentioned, is surely a [radical fringe at this point] part of that loose network).
Part doesn't do it for me much, I like Morton Feldman a whole lot though, if that helps with the recs.
Anyway, you guys have been great iwth the goodies so far, feel free to keep them coming, I won't stop checking this thread for a while.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:58 AM on December 6, 2005
Part doesn't do it for me much, I like Morton Feldman a whole lot though, if that helps with the recs.
Anyway, you guys have been great iwth the goodies so far, feel free to keep them coming, I won't stop checking this thread for a while.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:58 AM on December 6, 2005
I think it was Stravinsky who told his composition students: "rests always sound good."
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:04 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:04 AM on December 6, 2005
Response by poster: hototogisu (again, sorry), I haven't played with those Europeans actually, I just meant the tokyo crew.
Nmperign were one of the original groups udner the "lowercase" mantle (self-chosen or not), which began as a Boston-area email list for musicians interested in music like Feldman's to discuss possible directions to take it.
As for Rowe, there was a very celebrated AMM split a year or two ago, building (apparently) for a long time, but brought to a head by Eddie Prevost's recent book that slams Rowe & his ilk. Before that he was pretty much always in AMM; after that, not at all.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:04 AM on December 6, 2005
Nmperign were one of the original groups udner the "lowercase" mantle (self-chosen or not), which began as a Boston-area email list for musicians interested in music like Feldman's to discuss possible directions to take it.
As for Rowe, there was a very celebrated AMM split a year or two ago, building (apparently) for a long time, but brought to a head by Eddie Prevost's recent book that slams Rowe & his ilk. Before that he was pretty much always in AMM; after that, not at all.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:04 AM on December 6, 2005
hototogisu beat me to it (btw, are you a Matthew Bower fan, or a fan of Japanese cuckoos? Or both?) with mentions of Sachiko M et al, but I must reinforce how relevant Taku Sugimoto is - during the course of a 5 minute piece, he might actually play three notes, and they won't even be sustained notes.
Of Keiji Haino's output, his latest solo album (kono kehai fujirareteru hajimarini - Global Ancient Atmosphere) is the most relevant, even though it's my least favourite. It's one extended drum solo, but he plays the kit very idiosyncratically and very sparingly.
Not mentioned yet: Bernhard Günter and the whole output of his label, Trente Oiseaux; Richard Chartier; most stuff on the L_NE label, a sub-division of 12k.
posted by nylon at 6:08 AM on December 6, 2005
Of Keiji Haino's output, his latest solo album (kono kehai fujirareteru hajimarini - Global Ancient Atmosphere) is the most relevant, even though it's my least favourite. It's one extended drum solo, but he plays the kit very idiosyncratically and very sparingly.
Not mentioned yet: Bernhard Günter and the whole output of his label, Trente Oiseaux; Richard Chartier; most stuff on the L_NE label, a sub-division of 12k.
posted by nylon at 6:08 AM on December 6, 2005
Oops - my reading comprehension is poor today - I see you've already mentioned Taku upthread. Sorry.
posted by nylon at 6:12 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by nylon at 6:12 AM on December 6, 2005
Response by poster: yes, now we're talking about the genre of music in which I participate. I'm hoping for more stuff I might not know about, for various reasons. Also, btw, the more recent Sugimoto is more like 3 notes every 50 minutes. Last time I played iwth him (in a big group), I don't think he played at all.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:07 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:07 AM on December 6, 2005
The great Don Cherryvery much hip to the space between notes.
posted by hortense at 10:23 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by hortense at 10:23 AM on December 6, 2005
I'd have a hard time characterizing Sugimoto as a radical fringe of that scene--Sachiko M's got a few albums with just as few bleeps as any of his work. How about Toshiya Tsunoda, Akio Suzuki, Masayoshi Urabe, or Kousokuya?
Rowe's split from AMM before, this being the second time, right?. A great big "oh well" on that front--have you heard Den, the album he made with Sugimoto? I haven't listened to it for about a year, but I remember liking it quite a bit.
As long as we're talking about Japan, all sorts of traditional music has been built with well integrated silence (except for gagaku, I suppose). You've listed koto music, what else do you know?
re: nmperign: how about Axel Dörner and Bukhard Beins? They've done an album with Kelley and Rainey, and share a lot of the same ideas. Franz Hautzinger, sometimes, too.
How about Peter Brötzmann and Han Bennink? The recent reissue of Schwarzwaldfahrt seems chock full of silences (as they're wandering around the forest)? I've only given it a cursory listen or so, so I can't say for sure. How much of the rest of the European improv scene do you know? Do you read the Wire at all?
more more more...David Sylvian's album Blemish has some good silence in it; Fennesz worked on a track, and Derek Bailey does a couple others (yes, Bailey on a "pop" album).
nylon: both! :) And the literary journal!
also, Joseph Gurl: may we ask who you are?
Also, it might have helped to tell us some of what you knew before hand, as you seem to know some incredibly obscure things already, and some not-so-obscure things not at all...
posted by hototogisu at 10:28 AM on December 6, 2005
Rowe's split from AMM before, this being the second time, right?. A great big "oh well" on that front--have you heard Den, the album he made with Sugimoto? I haven't listened to it for about a year, but I remember liking it quite a bit.
As long as we're talking about Japan, all sorts of traditional music has been built with well integrated silence (except for gagaku, I suppose). You've listed koto music, what else do you know?
re: nmperign: how about Axel Dörner and Bukhard Beins? They've done an album with Kelley and Rainey, and share a lot of the same ideas. Franz Hautzinger, sometimes, too.
How about Peter Brötzmann and Han Bennink? The recent reissue of Schwarzwaldfahrt seems chock full of silences (as they're wandering around the forest)? I've only given it a cursory listen or so, so I can't say for sure. How much of the rest of the European improv scene do you know? Do you read the Wire at all?
more more more...David Sylvian's album Blemish has some good silence in it; Fennesz worked on a track, and Derek Bailey does a couple others (yes, Bailey on a "pop" album).
nylon: both! :) And the literary journal!
also, Joseph Gurl: may we ask who you are?
Also, it might have helped to tell us some of what you knew before hand, as you seem to know some incredibly obscure things already, and some not-so-obscure things not at all...
posted by hototogisu at 10:28 AM on December 6, 2005
damnit, I keep missing letters. Should be Burkhard Beins. Here's one more, but it's really obvious: Anton Webern?
posted by hototogisu at 10:46 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by hototogisu at 10:46 AM on December 6, 2005
He's already been mentioned, but I thought I'd expand on him - Rhodri Davies' solo harp work is stunning, and contains lots of silence. His one solo album Trem is definitely worth investigating. He's also done lots of collaborative work with others in a similar vein: John Butcher, Mark Wastell (check out Mark's label, Confront), Rhodri's sister Angharad Davies, Lee Patterson, Nikos Veliotis. The John Butcher/Derek Bailey/Rhodri Davies album on Emanem, Angels and Vortices, is fantastic.
posted by nylon at 11:33 AM on December 6, 2005
posted by nylon at 11:33 AM on December 6, 2005
Response by poster: You don't know who I am, I'm more "obscure" than any of those people haha.
Tsunoda is amazing, good rec. I should find more of his work (only have Decalcomania, which is jaw-dropping every time).
Sugimoto is definitely the radical fringe now - his recent recordings are less than 2% sound, 98% silence. Sachiko (who I know pretty well) hasn't released anything that features silence like that. The closest would be "Bar Sachiko" which has almost no silence, but almost no variation, either, just a continuous sinewave (actually I think a second sinewave comes in near the end, not sure though since I don't own the disc anymore). In musician circles, Sugimoto is a polarizing figure at the moment, although I wish it weren't the case.
The Webern is a good rec fo rme too, I've heard little of his work & always know I should know more.
Perhaps I should've given some background, sorry. This thread has been very useful to me anyway, so hope nobody's chafed.
ps: I don't read The Wire. Yucky :)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:04 PM on December 6, 2005
Tsunoda is amazing, good rec. I should find more of his work (only have Decalcomania, which is jaw-dropping every time).
Sugimoto is definitely the radical fringe now - his recent recordings are less than 2% sound, 98% silence. Sachiko (who I know pretty well) hasn't released anything that features silence like that. The closest would be "Bar Sachiko" which has almost no silence, but almost no variation, either, just a continuous sinewave (actually I think a second sinewave comes in near the end, not sure though since I don't own the disc anymore). In musician circles, Sugimoto is a polarizing figure at the moment, although I wish it weren't the case.
The Webern is a good rec fo rme too, I've heard little of his work & always know I should know more.
Perhaps I should've given some background, sorry. This thread has been very useful to me anyway, so hope nobody's chafed.
ps: I don't read The Wire. Yucky :)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:04 PM on December 6, 2005
She *does* have albums that feature silence like that (as long as you aren't talking about Sugimoto's utterly extreme version of it [which has been getting boring for some time--I hope he does something else soon])--Like, say, the eponymous release from her and Meehan. Which you know about, because you know her very well. Right? (appeals to authority are cute). Certainly as sparse as some of the stuff he was doing not so long ago, though.
Yes, we know we don't know who you are. That's why I asked. It's not like I'd be interested in your music or anything. Why on earth would I have any motivation in asking?
*sigh*
posted by hototogisu at 6:28 PM on December 6, 2005
Yes, we know we don't know who you are. That's why I asked. It's not like I'd be interested in your music or anything. Why on earth would I have any motivation in asking?
*sigh*
posted by hototogisu at 6:28 PM on December 6, 2005
I gather you're not really looking for popular music, but FWIW, Billy Joel's "River of Dreams" has a longer pause than I've heard in just about any other pop or rock song. I saw a clip of Joel performing it once (maybe on Saturday Night Live?) and you could tell he was enjoying holding the pause long enugh to make the audience wonder what was going on.
posted by yankeefog at 5:43 AM on December 8, 2005
posted by yankeefog at 5:43 AM on December 8, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Rothko at 5:48 PM on December 5, 2005