Dog and Homeowner's Insurance
August 16, 2015 11:03 AM Subscribe
We'd like to adopt a dog, but are confused about the possible effect on our homeowner's insurance, and would love some input. When we selected our policy, our insurer let us know that there were certain breeds of dogs that "could change our rates or coverage" but that the details would vary depending on the dog. Obviously, we will talk to our insurer, but we'd like to get a feel for the options and experiences of other people first.
We're hoping to adopt a large or medium sized adult dog sometime soon, but the majority of the dogs in local rescues are listed as mixes of the breeds that our insurance provider highlighted as 'dangerous' breeds (pit, shepherd, husky, boxer, etc.) All of the rescues state that the breeds are just best guesses based on visual identification, and really, we're interested in temperament and lifestyle fit, not breed. Googling so far has provided us with a variety of vague answers, so we would love it if you could provide us with some guidance.
1) Do you own a dog that is a 'dangerous' breed mix? What effect, if any, did / does it have on your homeowner's insurance? If there was an effect, was it a large rate increase, or a relatively small one? Do you have a separate policy to cover the dog or is it covered under your main policy?
2) Is the visual breed identification provided by the shelter enough to classify a dog as one breed or another for insurance purposes? That is, if the shelter says the dog is probably a pit-mix, is that 'official' even if the dog could potentially be some other mix?
3) Do you have any recommendations about how to frame this conversation with our insurer? Our specific agent seems a bit old fashioned, and may have some misapprehensions about certain breeds. We'd like to keep our current insurance, as it is a good deal, but should we be thinking about shopping for more dog friendly policies?
4) Are there issues we should be considering that I haven't thought of here?
We're hoping to adopt a large or medium sized adult dog sometime soon, but the majority of the dogs in local rescues are listed as mixes of the breeds that our insurance provider highlighted as 'dangerous' breeds (pit, shepherd, husky, boxer, etc.) All of the rescues state that the breeds are just best guesses based on visual identification, and really, we're interested in temperament and lifestyle fit, not breed. Googling so far has provided us with a variety of vague answers, so we would love it if you could provide us with some guidance.
1) Do you own a dog that is a 'dangerous' breed mix? What effect, if any, did / does it have on your homeowner's insurance? If there was an effect, was it a large rate increase, or a relatively small one? Do you have a separate policy to cover the dog or is it covered under your main policy?
2) Is the visual breed identification provided by the shelter enough to classify a dog as one breed or another for insurance purposes? That is, if the shelter says the dog is probably a pit-mix, is that 'official' even if the dog could potentially be some other mix?
3) Do you have any recommendations about how to frame this conversation with our insurer? Our specific agent seems a bit old fashioned, and may have some misapprehensions about certain breeds. We'd like to keep our current insurance, as it is a good deal, but should we be thinking about shopping for more dog friendly policies?
4) Are there issues we should be considering that I haven't thought of here?
"American Staffordshire Terrier" mix. Never say pitbull to anyone.
posted by phunniemee at 11:27 AM on August 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 11:27 AM on August 16, 2015 [9 favorites]
In a biological sense, the visual identification of a mix made by shelter staff or even veterinarians is likely not particularly accurate when it comes to the heritage of a particular dog. I like the "Pick the Pit" game to illustrate that many pure-bred breeds have pitbull-like features, which would be exacerbated in a mutt.
Now, whether or not your insurance company will accept your identification of a mutt for bully-breed purposes is a question for your agent. To me, your identification would be as authoritative as anyone in the shelter unless they know that a particular mutt's parents have breed papers.
posted by muddgirl at 11:39 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Now, whether or not your insurance company will accept your identification of a mutt for bully-breed purposes is a question for your agent. To me, your identification would be as authoritative as anyone in the shelter unless they know that a particular mutt's parents have breed papers.
posted by muddgirl at 11:39 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
(And yes, if they will accept your identification, call any dog a "terrier mix")
posted by muddgirl at 11:40 AM on August 16, 2015
posted by muddgirl at 11:40 AM on August 16, 2015
We have a German Sheppard/Border collie mix that we adopted and when they came to take pictures of our house for our home owners insurance they asked if we had a dog and if they could pet her. We said yes and the fellow told us since she was friendly* it wouldn't effect our rates but had she been aggressive it would have. We have USAA.
* Our dog isn't super friendly but she's well trained so to most people that's the same thing. She tends to ignore strangers unless they're near our kids and then she stands between them and the kiddos until we tell her to lay down. She doesn't stand between our kids and other kids so we think she might have seen an adult hit a child and that's why she's protective, sad and sweet at the same time.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 12:11 PM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
* Our dog isn't super friendly but she's well trained so to most people that's the same thing. She tends to ignore strangers unless they're near our kids and then she stands between them and the kiddos until we tell her to lay down. She doesn't stand between our kids and other kids so we think she might have seen an adult hit a child and that's why she's protective, sad and sweet at the same time.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 12:11 PM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
We have a tiny dog, but he's a jerk and I was worried about similar issues. We ended up getting an umbrella policy which covers a ton. It's about $200 a year.
posted by barnone at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2015
posted by barnone at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2015
As far as your insurance rep, just ask what their definition of a breed is, since you're planning on getting a shelter dog, and who knows what's in shelter dogs amirite?
We always called our pittiest dog a terrier mix or Staffordshire or cowdog (he's black and white, so it's as good a guess as any) to keep him on the down-low but assumed he was a pit-mix. Eventual DNA test said Malamute+Dogo Argentino (which sounds like one hell of a star-crossed romance), which I'm not terribly worried about ending up on a list, but we were worried that having documented results that said pit bull might be a problem when we first decided about testing him at all.
Breed restriction clauses are one of those things that haven't faired terribly well when taken to court, so you might also want to take the opportunity to shop around for a policy that doesn't include them.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:20 PM on August 16, 2015
We always called our pittiest dog a terrier mix or Staffordshire or cowdog (he's black and white, so it's as good a guess as any) to keep him on the down-low but assumed he was a pit-mix. Eventual DNA test said Malamute+Dogo Argentino (which sounds like one hell of a star-crossed romance), which I'm not terribly worried about ending up on a list, but we were worried that having documented results that said pit bull might be a problem when we first decided about testing him at all.
Breed restriction clauses are one of those things that haven't faired terribly well when taken to court, so you might also want to take the opportunity to shop around for a policy that doesn't include them.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:20 PM on August 16, 2015
One of our dogs was cause for an insurance carrier to deny us coverage renewal. Our new carrier required a rider on our home insurance excluding Odie from coverage, but he is still covered under our umbrella liability.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:40 PM on August 16, 2015
posted by infinitewindow at 12:40 PM on August 16, 2015
I am too lazy to look up the specifics right now, but I have two dogs and homeowners' insurance, and it's not that big a deal.
However, although my dogs could arguably both be classified as pit mixes, they are not officially IDed as such. There is no such thing, objectively, as a "pit bull," and visual identification is really inaccurate. It means just about nothing, and is really only useful to describe what a dog looks like.
The dog who looks the most pit bull like according to most is classified as a pointer mix, and the other, IIRC, a boxer mix. We got the 'pointer mix' description from the shelter for the one dog (I think they IDed her as something else to make her more adoptable), and our vet helped us pick out a description for the other one. Either one could probably be described just as easily as a retriever or hound mix or something, too.
When people ask me what breeds they are, I just ID them both as 'mutts,' which is the most accurate description I have, really. They're great, charming, friendly dogs, so I do sometimes tell people that yeah, these are the kinds of dogs people mean when they talk about pit bulls. I don't write it down on any official paperwork is all.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2015
However, although my dogs could arguably both be classified as pit mixes, they are not officially IDed as such. There is no such thing, objectively, as a "pit bull," and visual identification is really inaccurate. It means just about nothing, and is really only useful to describe what a dog looks like.
The dog who looks the most pit bull like according to most is classified as a pointer mix, and the other, IIRC, a boxer mix. We got the 'pointer mix' description from the shelter for the one dog (I think they IDed her as something else to make her more adoptable), and our vet helped us pick out a description for the other one. Either one could probably be described just as easily as a retriever or hound mix or something, too.
When people ask me what breeds they are, I just ID them both as 'mutts,' which is the most accurate description I have, really. They're great, charming, friendly dogs, so I do sometimes tell people that yeah, these are the kinds of dogs people mean when they talk about pit bulls. I don't write it down on any official paperwork is all.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:41 PM on August 16, 2015
Best answer: [Standard disclaimer: I worked for an insurance company for a few (long, grueling) years, but I am not an insurance agent.]
This is a pretty standard restriction across carriers and states, mainly aimed to reduce the risk dog bites for dog breeds that have a history of aggression (regardless of whether or not the dog in question is actually bad-tempered).
Unless your carrier is weird, they're just going to take your word for it on a form (or maybe ask for a photo). In the case of an actual dog bite claim, they will use that information against you if the breed doesn't match what you self-identified on the form. So if they could use that against you to either deny the claim or cancel your policy after paying it out.
That being said, you're going for a shelter dog, so this situation is pretty common. You can talk to the shelter to get a form certifying that the dog doesn't have a history of aggression, and that should usually take care of it. Talk to your agent for the details for your specific carrier, but you should be fine as long as you're not intentionally deceitful.
posted by Maya Cecile at 3:22 PM on August 16, 2015
This is a pretty standard restriction across carriers and states, mainly aimed to reduce the risk dog bites for dog breeds that have a history of aggression (regardless of whether or not the dog in question is actually bad-tempered).
Unless your carrier is weird, they're just going to take your word for it on a form (or maybe ask for a photo). In the case of an actual dog bite claim, they will use that information against you if the breed doesn't match what you self-identified on the form. So if they could use that against you to either deny the claim or cancel your policy after paying it out.
That being said, you're going for a shelter dog, so this situation is pretty common. You can talk to the shelter to get a form certifying that the dog doesn't have a history of aggression, and that should usually take care of it. Talk to your agent for the details for your specific carrier, but you should be fine as long as you're not intentionally deceitful.
posted by Maya Cecile at 3:22 PM on August 16, 2015
It depends totally on your specific carrier, and the rules they publish with your department of insurance.
Your agent should be able to get you the info (much like how much would it be to insure a Ferrari versus a Toyota?) if (s)he can't or won't tell you--time to get a new agent or carrier.
posted by prk60091 at 3:24 PM on August 16, 2015
Your agent should be able to get you the info (much like how much would it be to insure a Ferrari versus a Toyota?) if (s)he can't or won't tell you--time to get a new agent or carrier.
posted by prk60091 at 3:24 PM on August 16, 2015
Best answer: "American Staffordshire Terrier" mix. Never say pitbull to anyone.
My experience with landlords/insurance companies is that most of the people writing these clauses are wise to this and will often clarify "do you mean Staffordshire Terrier?" or deliberately list AmStaffs, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, any mix thereof, etc. on "banned breed" or insurance issue lists. I haven't seen American Bullies on those lists yet but it's probably just a matter of time.
I have a shelter dog who looks like she could be a pit mix or maybe a tiny boxer mix or any of a variety of things. I personally think she's probably a Boston Terrier cross, but the important thing is that she's 30 pounds, short-haired, brindle, muscly, and has a short-ish face as well as enormous pointy ears and large eyes--in "plausible deniability" land, but enough that she routinely gets pegged as a pit cross.
I have taken care to get all her vet paperwork, dog training class records, etc. down as a Boston Terrier cross, and that's generally been enough for landlords and insurance. Sometimes they ask for a photo as well, and I usually use one that emphasizes her large eyes and ears and minimizes her more bully-like features, which works well. See how I'm choosing photos where she's not squinting in the sun, where her muscles aren't tensed up, and where her eyes are open wide? Photos that show your dog performing tricks or being visibly friendly can also be helpful to have on hand.
It's a damned stupid thing to worry about, but shelter workers and vets will usually work with you to help you keep your dog safe and legal if the dog is actually a friendly dog. Keeping all the paperwork on the dog "in the clear" usually helps. So does getting a Canine Good Citizen on your dog, or your local equivalent if you're not American--that gives you some basic paperwork certifying that your dog is easily handleable and not a threat to other people or in any way a problem in public spaces. Plus they require registration with your local national kennel club, which you can do on a spayed/neutered mixed breed now and which will give you another bit of paperwork upon which you can often say "no sirreee, no pit mix here!"
posted by sciatrix at 4:41 PM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
My experience with landlords/insurance companies is that most of the people writing these clauses are wise to this and will often clarify "do you mean Staffordshire Terrier?" or deliberately list AmStaffs, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, any mix thereof, etc. on "banned breed" or insurance issue lists. I haven't seen American Bullies on those lists yet but it's probably just a matter of time.
I have a shelter dog who looks like she could be a pit mix or maybe a tiny boxer mix or any of a variety of things. I personally think she's probably a Boston Terrier cross, but the important thing is that she's 30 pounds, short-haired, brindle, muscly, and has a short-ish face as well as enormous pointy ears and large eyes--in "plausible deniability" land, but enough that she routinely gets pegged as a pit cross.
I have taken care to get all her vet paperwork, dog training class records, etc. down as a Boston Terrier cross, and that's generally been enough for landlords and insurance. Sometimes they ask for a photo as well, and I usually use one that emphasizes her large eyes and ears and minimizes her more bully-like features, which works well. See how I'm choosing photos where she's not squinting in the sun, where her muscles aren't tensed up, and where her eyes are open wide? Photos that show your dog performing tricks or being visibly friendly can also be helpful to have on hand.
It's a damned stupid thing to worry about, but shelter workers and vets will usually work with you to help you keep your dog safe and legal if the dog is actually a friendly dog. Keeping all the paperwork on the dog "in the clear" usually helps. So does getting a Canine Good Citizen on your dog, or your local equivalent if you're not American--that gives you some basic paperwork certifying that your dog is easily handleable and not a threat to other people or in any way a problem in public spaces. Plus they require registration with your local national kennel club, which you can do on a spayed/neutered mixed breed now and which will give you another bit of paperwork upon which you can often say "no sirreee, no pit mix here!"
posted by sciatrix at 4:41 PM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you live in an area where many/most of the dogs at the local rescue are pit mixes, it's likely you live in an area with a dogfighting problem, which means your insurer is likely to be hyperalert to being able to deny your dog bite claim because you had a "dangerous" dog and didn't forewarn them.
IMO (aunt is a vet who rescues "unadoptable" pits) you are always better off paying the insurer's premium if your dog arguably fits their definition of "dangerous."
A couple of years ago a woman near us lost her homeowners' insurance over a DANGEROUS CAT who attacked (and seriously injured) an elderly woman, because the cat had already bitten two people and the owner was failing to comply with local cat leash laws and did not report the cat as dangerous to the insurer. The elderly woman needed EXTENSIVE medical care, which the homeowner has to pay out of pocket, and the cat was put down. And the owner got a massive criminal ticket over the whole thing and is now forbidden from owning pets. It was all really sad and stupid, but the point is, your insurer will go out of their way to not pay.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:44 PM on August 16, 2015
IMO (aunt is a vet who rescues "unadoptable" pits) you are always better off paying the insurer's premium if your dog arguably fits their definition of "dangerous."
A couple of years ago a woman near us lost her homeowners' insurance over a DANGEROUS CAT who attacked (and seriously injured) an elderly woman, because the cat had already bitten two people and the owner was failing to comply with local cat leash laws and did not report the cat as dangerous to the insurer. The elderly woman needed EXTENSIVE medical care, which the homeowner has to pay out of pocket, and the cat was put down. And the owner got a massive criminal ticket over the whole thing and is now forbidden from owning pets. It was all really sad and stupid, but the point is, your insurer will go out of their way to not pay.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:44 PM on August 16, 2015
I have a pit bull (an incredibly friendly and harmless shelter mutt, definitely part pit). I had to switch my homeowner insurance carrier when I first got him because they wouldn't cover it. I just went with a company that doesn't discriminate based on breeds, and they continue to get my business for the condo I just bought. It hasn't been an issue since.
posted by halogen at 7:23 PM on August 16, 2015
posted by halogen at 7:23 PM on August 16, 2015
In my experience, shelters are next to useless for identifying dog breeds of mutts. I would never go with a shelter evaluation for dog breed for insurance purposes.
The rescue I work with gets the dog breed set by veterinarians who understand the prejudices against certain breeds.
For my area of the US at least, the idea that mixes are the easily defined product of two full-breed parents is way off. We have a reservation dog who I am sure is the product of many generations of mutts. The pound listed her as a shepherd mix, based on the saddle coloring I'm sure, but it's not like shepherds are not the only dogs with that coloring.
Anyway, if you do adopt a mixed-breed dog, do not accept the shelter's breed evaluation and get a sympathetic vet to determine it instead.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:06 AM on August 17, 2015
The rescue I work with gets the dog breed set by veterinarians who understand the prejudices against certain breeds.
For my area of the US at least, the idea that mixes are the easily defined product of two full-breed parents is way off. We have a reservation dog who I am sure is the product of many generations of mutts. The pound listed her as a shepherd mix, based on the saddle coloring I'm sure, but it's not like shepherds are not the only dogs with that coloring.
Anyway, if you do adopt a mixed-breed dog, do not accept the shelter's breed evaluation and get a sympathetic vet to determine it instead.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:06 AM on August 17, 2015
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Our dog accidentally pulled over a table outside a coffee shop when a girl asked his attention. Table fell on her foot. Needed stitches so she could not wear flip-flops during the summer.. Her uncle is a lawyer. Our insurance company settled for $80.000....
posted by Mac-Expert at 11:20 AM on August 16, 2015 [1 favorite]