Which European city should I move to?
August 13, 2015 12:48 PM Subscribe
I can work remotely pretty much anywhere in Europe, except the UK - where should I move to?
Hello!
I live on an island taxhaven 70 miles south of England with a population of about 60,000. I moved here with my former fiancee in 2009 but that engagement ended at the beginning of 2013, and while I do have good friends here and enjoy the lifestyle (e.g. a 5 minute walk to work), being a single chap on a small, isolated and underpopulated island is less than ideal. I'm 37 and would like to settle down and start a family sooner rather than later.
I'm English and moving back to the UK is appealing as I have close friends and family in Bristol and Oxford, but there is a possibility that my current employers will allow me to work remotely from one of my company's European offices (pretty much any city with a population of more than half a million) and commute back to the taxhaven to attend board meetings.
This seems like a great opportunity as my (admittedly soulless corporate) job is reasonably well paid, I know what I'm doing and there is an opportunity to progress within it and/or save to retrain and do something less soul destroying. That said I'm not sure whether my salary would be tailored i.e. reduced or increased to reflect the living costs of the country I might move to, and this is something I'm in the process of establishing, so I appreciate this question may seem somewhat half-baked.
Notwithstanding that ambiguity, I can't settle on a city to move to, and that is where I was hoping the discerning hivemind might be so kind as to help out.
The opportunity to learn a useful European language is appealing - and by useful I suppose I mean Spanish or German, so Barcelona, Valencia, Madrid, Hamburg and Vienna would be my first choices in that regard. That said, Prague, Amsterdam, Stockholm and Budapest appeal - not that I've been to any of those cities! The obvious suggestion is a whistlestop tour of potential bases, but I have 8 days of holiday left this year, so I thought I would turn to the Asmkmefi community for its views.
Anywhere within a 2.5 hour flight from London is viable. Ideally somewhere cosmopolitan and receptive to expats/immigrants, with good nightlife, interesting architecture, good cuisine and not ridiculously expensive (which probably rules out Paris, Munich, Stockholm, Dublin and Amsterdam).
I'm not terribly well travelled, which is one of the main reasons I'm posing this question - I've been to Berlin (dreary thought doubtlessly "cool/sexy"), Seville (simply stunning but too hot even in early May), Helsinki (a long time ago and too far away), Munich (a long time ago, no especially vivid memories positive or negative), and Rennes (amazing food market but possibly a little too small, studenty and twee, and - stereotype alert - the French aren't terribly fond of the English).
Where would you go?
Hello!
I live on an island taxhaven 70 miles south of England with a population of about 60,000. I moved here with my former fiancee in 2009 but that engagement ended at the beginning of 2013, and while I do have good friends here and enjoy the lifestyle (e.g. a 5 minute walk to work), being a single chap on a small, isolated and underpopulated island is less than ideal. I'm 37 and would like to settle down and start a family sooner rather than later.
I'm English and moving back to the UK is appealing as I have close friends and family in Bristol and Oxford, but there is a possibility that my current employers will allow me to work remotely from one of my company's European offices (pretty much any city with a population of more than half a million) and commute back to the taxhaven to attend board meetings.
This seems like a great opportunity as my (admittedly soulless corporate) job is reasonably well paid, I know what I'm doing and there is an opportunity to progress within it and/or save to retrain and do something less soul destroying. That said I'm not sure whether my salary would be tailored i.e. reduced or increased to reflect the living costs of the country I might move to, and this is something I'm in the process of establishing, so I appreciate this question may seem somewhat half-baked.
Notwithstanding that ambiguity, I can't settle on a city to move to, and that is where I was hoping the discerning hivemind might be so kind as to help out.
The opportunity to learn a useful European language is appealing - and by useful I suppose I mean Spanish or German, so Barcelona, Valencia, Madrid, Hamburg and Vienna would be my first choices in that regard. That said, Prague, Amsterdam, Stockholm and Budapest appeal - not that I've been to any of those cities! The obvious suggestion is a whistlestop tour of potential bases, but I have 8 days of holiday left this year, so I thought I would turn to the Asmkmefi community for its views.
Anywhere within a 2.5 hour flight from London is viable. Ideally somewhere cosmopolitan and receptive to expats/immigrants, with good nightlife, interesting architecture, good cuisine and not ridiculously expensive (which probably rules out Paris, Munich, Stockholm, Dublin and Amsterdam).
I'm not terribly well travelled, which is one of the main reasons I'm posing this question - I've been to Berlin (dreary thought doubtlessly "cool/sexy"), Seville (simply stunning but too hot even in early May), Helsinki (a long time ago and too far away), Munich (a long time ago, no especially vivid memories positive or negative), and Rennes (amazing food market but possibly a little too small, studenty and twee, and - stereotype alert - the French aren't terribly fond of the English).
Where would you go?
I think Madrid and Vienna are both stuffy staid cities, but Barcelona, Prague and Budapest would all be fun. My own list would focus on Paris first if at all possible, and if not I'd be thinking about northern Italy, e.g. Milan or Verona.
posted by bearwife at 1:10 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by bearwife at 1:10 PM on August 13, 2015
Northern Italy would have a lot of appeal to me. It's got one of the nicest climates in Europe. There are a half-dozen or more major cities to chose from, though none of which are so enormous as to have the big city problems of Paris, London or Berlin, yet Rome (or Munich) are within a day's train ride if you feel the need. Northern Italian culture seems to mesh well with the English one in terms of cultural expectations, and being a UK-worker there won't exactly be unusual. It's a pretty central European location, giving lots of opportunity for relatively cheap travel. Italian is one of the lower bars to learn as an English speaker.
posted by bonehead at 1:25 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 1:25 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Personally I would go with Berlin, which I didn't find dreary at all. Vienna is, from what I've heard, far drearier.
posted by kenko at 1:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by kenko at 1:29 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would go for Vienna - there is definitely nightlife and living expenses are considerably less than most western European cities of comparable size. The food is outstanding, with great focus on local, seasonal ingredients. Incomparable classical music, of course.
Do you have to choose one place for good, though? You might think about airbnb'ing it in one city per month (say you end up with a short list of three and take three months to make your final decision). I would.
posted by Atrahasis at 1:35 PM on August 13, 2015
Do you have to choose one place for good, though? You might think about airbnb'ing it in one city per month (say you end up with a short list of three and take three months to make your final decision). I would.
posted by Atrahasis at 1:35 PM on August 13, 2015
Toulouse! It's big, lots of markets, good weather, close to spain for trips, people are nice
posted by Sijeka at 2:18 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Sijeka at 2:18 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do you have holidays? I mean, it's Europe; it's really small. Why not take two weeks and do a whistle stop tour of six or seven cities? Since you mention the weather in Spain in May, I would use average temperature as a filtering criteria.
And if you want to never be hot, there's always Dublin!
posted by DarlingBri at 2:26 PM on August 13, 2015
And if you want to never be hot, there's always Dublin!
posted by DarlingBri at 2:26 PM on August 13, 2015
Ljubljana? Fun city, some nightlife, on the Euro, but cheap.
On the other hand, Slovenian isn't super useful. But looks of folks speak English.
posted by leahwrenn at 2:52 PM on August 13, 2015
On the other hand, Slovenian isn't super useful. But looks of folks speak English.
posted by leahwrenn at 2:52 PM on August 13, 2015
Bear in mind that Catalan is more prevalent in Barcelona than Spanish, though someone who knows it better than me might be able to weigh in on just how much.
posted by penguin pie at 3:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by penguin pie at 3:06 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd say Berlin. Cost of living is low, you will have no trouble getting around with English while you're still learning German, there's always something to do. My only complaint would be that so many people in Berlin are ex-pats and tourists who don't speak any German, so it's pretty common for locals to assume that anyone with a foreign accent wants to be spoken to in English. That means that it's not really the best city to learn German in.
What did you find so dreary about it? The winter is not the best, sure, and there are some suburbs that I would avoid, but for the most part Berlin is a very liveable city and it satisfies this list: cosmopolitan and receptive to expats/immigrants, with good nightlife, interesting architecture, good cuisine and not ridiculously expensive
posted by kinddieserzeit at 3:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
What did you find so dreary about it? The winter is not the best, sure, and there are some suburbs that I would avoid, but for the most part Berlin is a very liveable city and it satisfies this list: cosmopolitan and receptive to expats/immigrants, with good nightlife, interesting architecture, good cuisine and not ridiculously expensive
posted by kinddieserzeit at 3:07 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
For somewhere with a useful language, I think Vienna is great - super lively in the summer, good food, and relatively inexpensive - and yeah, actually, seconding Lyon, though it's obviously a smaller city.
Budapest is hands-down my favorite city in Europe - young and vibrant and cheap, and the food is amaaaazing - but Hungarian is...less useful. I feel like it's still worth it. In all seriousness it'd be worth it to learn Hungarian just for Budapest. As a person who is obsessed, I've read a bunch of expat blogs from Budapest, and it seems like you'd get by OK socially just with English, at least at first.
I also like Barcelona, although as others have pointed out, it's a mixed bag on the language front.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 3:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Budapest is hands-down my favorite city in Europe - young and vibrant and cheap, and the food is amaaaazing - but Hungarian is...less useful. I feel like it's still worth it. In all seriousness it'd be worth it to learn Hungarian just for Budapest. As a person who is obsessed, I've read a bunch of expat blogs from Budapest, and it seems like you'd get by OK socially just with English, at least at first.
I also like Barcelona, although as others have pointed out, it's a mixed bag on the language front.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 3:35 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I notice that of the Scandinavian option(s), you don't mention Copenhagen. Which is a shame.
Then about Hamburg and North Germany. I should mention that Bremen is a huge deal less hectic and less stinky than Hamburg and has more parks, a nice inner city and a lot of green spaces. Plus it's an hour away from both Hannover and Hamburg (also, I grew up in Bremen and never regretted it...).
posted by Namlit at 3:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Then about Hamburg and North Germany. I should mention that Bremen is a huge deal less hectic and less stinky than Hamburg and has more parks, a nice inner city and a lot of green spaces. Plus it's an hour away from both Hannover and Hamburg (also, I grew up in Bremen and never regretted it...).
posted by Namlit at 3:42 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is it the food which makes you eliminate Amsterdam? The basic Dutch cuisine is pretty bad in the north, but Amsterdam has a very active restaurant scene with nice popups, small restaurants and markets. If you like live music, it's hard to beat Amsterdam-- one of the things I miss most about living there is the steady stream of great artists playing in small-ish clubs. Dutch is not terribly practical, I'll admit, so there's that. The other big plus about Amsterdam is Schiphol-- flights and trains to everywhere are plentiful, cheap-ish, and easy to access.
Otherwise, I would second Berlin, although the airport is kind of a pain. I also love Stockholm, but you've eliminated that as well for food? Or for cost? Copenhagen, as mentioned, is also a great city but it is definitely not cheap.
posted by frumiousb at 4:42 PM on August 13, 2015
Otherwise, I would second Berlin, although the airport is kind of a pain. I also love Stockholm, but you've eliminated that as well for food? Or for cost? Copenhagen, as mentioned, is also a great city but it is definitely not cheap.
posted by frumiousb at 4:42 PM on August 13, 2015
If you can negotiate on language, what about Lisbon? It's cheaper to live in than almost any other western European capital, gorgeous, delicious, and well connected to Gatwick as well as Heathrow, making it relatively easy to get back to the Channel Islands.
If you were receiving even a vaguely northern European professional salary, you would have an exceedingly comfortable lifestyle and the summer heat would not be as molten as, say, Barcelona, as the Portuguese climate is affected by the Atlantic more than the Mediterranean.
posted by mdonley at 5:04 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you were receiving even a vaguely northern European professional salary, you would have an exceedingly comfortable lifestyle and the summer heat would not be as molten as, say, Barcelona, as the Portuguese climate is affected by the Atlantic more than the Mediterranean.
posted by mdonley at 5:04 PM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I chose Madrid over Barcelona for these reasons:
- One language rather than two, and without the prickly politics
- Friendlier people
- More trees
- Fewer tourists, or maybe they're just more concentrated and easier to avoid
First impressions of Madrid might not be good. Mine weren't. But within about 10 days I realized how very livable the city is and how open madrileños are to foreigners. There are tons of meetups, lots of opportunities to mix with expats and locals, and a good metro, and the city has a compact footprint but with lots of variety in neighborhoods.
posted by ceiba at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
- One language rather than two, and without the prickly politics
- Friendlier people
- More trees
- Fewer tourists, or maybe they're just more concentrated and easier to avoid
First impressions of Madrid might not be good. Mine weren't. But within about 10 days I realized how very livable the city is and how open madrileños are to foreigners. There are tons of meetups, lots of opportunities to mix with expats and locals, and a good metro, and the city has a compact footprint but with lots of variety in neighborhoods.
posted by ceiba at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is cost of living an issue? If so you should be able to narrow down your shortlist by looking at relative cost of living.
For example I'd love to live in Prague, but the cost of housing might put me off. 2nd choice would be Budapest - goodbyewaffles is right about the food.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 8:46 PM on August 13, 2015
For example I'd love to live in Prague, but the cost of housing might put me off. 2nd choice would be Budapest - goodbyewaffles is right about the food.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 8:46 PM on August 13, 2015
Re: Barcelona and Catalan. This year, on my first visit to Spain, the vast majority of Spaniards were helpful and patient with my 500 words of Spanish and a good (but not their) accent. In Barcelona, when I got stuck and asked for a word, they gave the Catalan one. As much as I liked Barcelona, it wouldn't choose it for my first 6 months to a year of living with learning Spanish.
posted by Homer42 at 10:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Homer42 at 10:15 PM on August 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree that the Netherlands probably isn't right for you; cost of living is high and rent in the major cities has risen a lot lately, plus Dutch isn't a very useful language. Personally, I'd consider Berlin: great nightlife, friendly to expats, not too expensive.
posted by neushoorn at 10:26 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by neushoorn at 10:26 PM on August 13, 2015
What did you find dreary about Berlin? It's hard to recommend without knowing that. I found Paris and Tokyo way drearier, but I'm a born Berliner.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 11:15 PM on August 13, 2015
posted by LoonyLovegood at 11:15 PM on August 13, 2015
Prague is cheap and fun -- and also excellent to travel from, and easy enough for expats. Berlin, though, would be amazing.
posted by aaanastasia at 3:27 AM on August 14, 2015
posted by aaanastasia at 3:27 AM on August 14, 2015
beautiful bordeaux. considering moving there myself :)
posted by mrmulliner at 4:55 AM on August 14, 2015
posted by mrmulliner at 4:55 AM on August 14, 2015
Team Budapest. None of the other cities tick as many of your boxes as Budapest.
posted by travellingincognito at 5:42 AM on August 14, 2015
posted by travellingincognito at 5:42 AM on August 14, 2015
Munich has become a lot more cosmopolitan than it was, and it is perfectly situated. Great food and nightlife, too.
Northern Italy is really a nice place to be as well, but I haven't lived there for more than a month. I've lived in Rome, and it was great.
I am in Copenhagen now, and prices are not that bad if you have a Danish salary. I know tons of Brits who have settled here permanently.
posted by mumimor at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2015
Northern Italy is really a nice place to be as well, but I haven't lived there for more than a month. I've lived in Rome, and it was great.
I am in Copenhagen now, and prices are not that bad if you have a Danish salary. I know tons of Brits who have settled here permanently.
posted by mumimor at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Mac-Expert at 12:59 PM on August 13, 2015