Should I charge separately for a beer promotion?
August 10, 2015 12:36 PM Subscribe
I've designed a logo for a client, but our agreement doesn't cover beer.
I'm an artist/illustrator, and I've recently designed a logo for a client. The images I've put together for them include a pretty detailed standard logo, along with a text-only version, some Facebook and Twitter banners and profile pics, and an event poster.
Our agreement states that they can use these images for any usual promotional purpose, including reproduction on mugs, tee shirts, and other kinds of products. So far so good.
Recently the client has been talking about having a local brewery create a custom beer for them as a promotion. This was a bit of a lucky coincidence, since I've been trying to interest beer and wine companies in using my label art. But my original agreement to create the client's logo says nothing about terms for use on beverage labels.
As I understand it, the custom beer is a promotional product - it'll be made available at events for clients of the business, but it won't be stocked in stores. So it doesn't make sense for me to charge a percentage of sales.
Question: shall I create a separate agreement for the beer label project, and charge my client for it? Or shall I charge the brewery for the use of my art? If there are any artists out there who've done a project like this, I would love to know what type of fee model you used.
I'm an artist/illustrator, and I've recently designed a logo for a client. The images I've put together for them include a pretty detailed standard logo, along with a text-only version, some Facebook and Twitter banners and profile pics, and an event poster.
Our agreement states that they can use these images for any usual promotional purpose, including reproduction on mugs, tee shirts, and other kinds of products. So far so good.
Recently the client has been talking about having a local brewery create a custom beer for them as a promotion. This was a bit of a lucky coincidence, since I've been trying to interest beer and wine companies in using my label art. But my original agreement to create the client's logo says nothing about terms for use on beverage labels.
As I understand it, the custom beer is a promotional product - it'll be made available at events for clients of the business, but it won't be stocked in stores. So it doesn't make sense for me to charge a percentage of sales.
Question: shall I create a separate agreement for the beer label project, and charge my client for it? Or shall I charge the brewery for the use of my art? If there are any artists out there who've done a project like this, I would love to know what type of fee model you used.
I am not a graphic designer, but like rainbowbrite, I'm not sure how this differs from other promotional products. Aside from the "expected" promos (t-shirts, keychains, flash drives), you wouldn't charge for unusual (but still promotional) products like, say, marbles with the logo embedded, right? How is the beer different, if they aren't selling it?
In your last paragraph, you refer to the "beer label project" and then "use of my art", so I'm not sure if you'll be designing the label or if someone else will be using your existing logo art to design it. If you're designing an entire label or doing any other additional work for this, then of course disregard my advice and create a new contract for that project.
To be honest, if you really want to build goodwill with the brewery, I think that opportunity supercedes getting additional income from the logo you already created for promotional use.
posted by R a c h e l at 12:48 PM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
In your last paragraph, you refer to the "beer label project" and then "use of my art", so I'm not sure if you'll be designing the label or if someone else will be using your existing logo art to design it. If you're designing an entire label or doing any other additional work for this, then of course disregard my advice and create a new contract for that project.
To be honest, if you really want to build goodwill with the brewery, I think that opportunity supercedes getting additional income from the logo you already created for promotional use.
posted by R a c h e l at 12:48 PM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've designed many logos and never considered it my business what the client did with the logo after I delivered it. Is this standard for you? If an old client moved into a new field (selling beer, say), would you lawyer up and go after them? This seems very strange to me.
Perhaps it's a distinction between art (illustration, photography) and logo design. To me a logo is created with the understanding that the company now owns it and can do whatever they want with it. Illustrations and photography may have more specific rights negotiated, but I've never heard of this for logos.
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:10 PM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Perhaps it's a distinction between art (illustration, photography) and logo design. To me a logo is created with the understanding that the company now owns it and can do whatever they want with it. Illustrations and photography may have more specific rights negotiated, but I've never heard of this for logos.
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:10 PM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I admit to being totally confused here. You created a logo for a client and provided it on some collateral. Are they coming to you to ask you to design a beer label? Because then you would obviously just charge them for your design time the same way you would for a new poster or whatever. If you've provided EPS or AI or whatever files and they want to use them without your input, I have no idea what you would be charging them for with regard to this beer.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:11 PM on August 10, 2015
posted by DarlingBri at 1:11 PM on August 10, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks for your input, guys.
I think R a c h e l is hitting it on the head - there are two pieces to this, the original logo art and the label design.
For the project I'm talking about, my client can just email the brew company the logo file, and the brew company would design the packaging in-house, or send it out to the designer/s they usually use. I wouldn't be further involved in that.
But in this case, I want to get the attention of the brew company because I'd like to do some work for them directly. R a c h e l is saying that I can build good will with them by using this opportunity as a kind of audition. It doesn't make sense, though, to ask for payment from the brewery for this project. And they'll probably use their own people to design the label anyway.
If I'm feeling you guys, what you're saying is: The logo art was paid for by my client, and they're free to use it on beer labels, even if that use wasn't specifically mentioned in our agreement. Also, the label design is something I would charge the brew company for, not the client - but only if the brew company were also my client.
That clears it up a bit - thank you!
posted by cartoonella at 1:40 PM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think R a c h e l is hitting it on the head - there are two pieces to this, the original logo art and the label design.
For the project I'm talking about, my client can just email the brew company the logo file, and the brew company would design the packaging in-house, or send it out to the designer/s they usually use. I wouldn't be further involved in that.
But in this case, I want to get the attention of the brew company because I'd like to do some work for them directly. R a c h e l is saying that I can build good will with them by using this opportunity as a kind of audition. It doesn't make sense, though, to ask for payment from the brewery for this project. And they'll probably use their own people to design the label anyway.
If I'm feeling you guys, what you're saying is: The logo art was paid for by my client, and they're free to use it on beer labels, even if that use wasn't specifically mentioned in our agreement. Also, the label design is something I would charge the brew company for, not the client - but only if the brew company were also my client.
That clears it up a bit - thank you!
posted by cartoonella at 1:40 PM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If it were me, I would contact the company, thank them for getting your art into the beer label world and tell them in a nice joking way that your fee is a case of the promotional beer.
posted by AugustWest at 6:02 PM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by AugustWest at 6:02 PM on August 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Given your update, I certainly don't think it hurts to reach out to the company and let them know that you'd be interested in working with the beer company on the label design if they are looking for someone to do that. Obviously the beer folks may have a pre-existing arrangement with a designer, but it's worth a shot!
posted by rainbowbrite at 5:19 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rainbowbrite at 5:19 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you want to use this as an opportunity to work with the beer company, perhaps you could ask your client to say to the beer company 'This is our logo, and we'd like the designer who did the work to also design the beer packaging. Can you work with her to ensure she has any templates or specifications she needs to work with your process?'
Whether you could both get that introduction and charge either the beer company or your client for the work, I don't know. But that's how I'd try to get the introduction.
Then once you've done work with the beer company, you can use that as an opportunity to pitch them on using you as an outside designer in the future.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:31 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Whether you could both get that introduction and charge either the beer company or your client for the work, I don't know. But that's how I'd try to get the introduction.
Then once you've done work with the beer company, you can use that as an opportunity to pitch them on using you as an outside designer in the future.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:31 AM on August 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
« Older Know what the cape that Joanna Newsom is wearing... | 1980's Japanese movies set in Tokyo about the life... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
And, definitely drop by the brewery with a business card and perhaps a sample of your broader work and let them know you're available for/interested in beer label design.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:43 PM on August 10, 2015 [2 favorites]