Help me buy a car

December 2, 2005 3:20 PM

CarFilter: the lease is up on my 2002 Jetta 1.8T in just under 2 months, and I'm looking to lease a new car. Help me make sure I consider all of the models I should!

My first instinct was just to buy another Jetta (this time the 2.0T) - it's a good size for me and my family, I love the feel on the road, it's great in the winter (with appropriate tires), and it's relatively inexpensive.

I adore the look of the Audi A3 and I could probably swing it if there was something that clearly recommended it over the Jetta. I had a Subaru at one point and liked it, but i find it silly that a top-end Forester is more expensive than an Audi A4 wagon and so I wonder if the whole Subaru pricing system is out of whack.

What other options would MeFi-ites recommend I consider? I know nothing about current Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or Mazdas but I'm curious about quality/price of those and the driving feel compared to a Volks. I am curious about how the new Ford-designed Volvos stack up (in particular the S40) with their predecessors.

posted by mikel to travel & transportation (20 comments total)

Is it wrong to ask why you're leasing instead of buying?
posted by SeizeTheDay at 3:30 PM on December 2, 2005

So, I don't mean to be rude, but this is something (at least wrt. quality and price) that Consumer Reports could help with. As far as recommendations, you will need to give us WAY more information about what's important to you.

I personally think all the Audi/VW offerings are way overpriced currently and the quality isn't there - and hasn't been for awhle.

Take a weekend or a few weekdays and drive all the cars you are considering or that catch your eye. Go to a CarMax if there's one near you, since you can potentially drive all of them (albeit slightly-to-fairly used) in one place.

I'd recommend an Acura TSX or TL depending on your price range and as a family car (as opposed to an IS250 or 3-series), as far as my preferences go. The Accord EX V6 is a *steal* if you'd rather the next tier down - no automanual or Xenon, etc. Highly highly recommended although the styling is a little more blah for '06. Honda is not a car to buy to impress, but then again, a Jetta is worse for that IMHO anyway. :)
posted by kcm at 3:33 PM on December 2, 2005

It's not wrong to ask, but it is definitely my preference and there's not much chance that I change that. I use my car for business as a consultant as well as other personal use, so a lease is preferable. I would hope this discussion doesn't get bogged down with that question.
posted by mikel at 3:35 PM on December 2, 2005

Lease vs. buy is certainly relevant. For a car like the TSX or 3-series, significant improvements are made in '06 worth taking a look at getting a new car, where leasing makes more sense than in the case of a car which has not changed much, where buying a 1-2 year old model makes a lot more sense for most people. Just an interjection.
posted by kcm at 3:38 PM on December 2, 2005

You'll find a lot of information, including reviews, on Edmunds.com.
posted by amro at 3:48 PM on December 2, 2005

It sounded strange to me - so I went to each site and did some pricing. A Forester with the premium package is 24,7 a base model A4 avant (the wagon) is 31,4. The WRX wagon with every available sporty option you can find is in the high 20's and has about equivalent room to your Jetta.

The A3 2.0 is in the low 20's but if you want the sportier model or quattro it's the high 30's. I'm having a hard time with the price for what is essentially a sporty hatch back but everyone who owns them raves. Spend some time in the Audis - the seats are significantly "sportier" and thus more stiff than the Jetta seats are going to be. I know a woman who has to bring a pillow when she rides in her husbands A4.

Our friend just leased a 3 series with their 4 wheel drive for almost nothing a month. Could be worth investigating.

I'm not a fan of the new Jetta- but if you like the one you have and you like the new one - seems like a good idea to stick with what works. I would guess a Jetta lease would be pretty cheap these days.

Good luck.
posted by Wolfie at 3:58 PM on December 2, 2005

The sticker on Subaru's is higher than many cars in the same class, true. But, Subaru's come with so much standard that by the time you improve the other cars to match he Subaru's features they end up costing well over the Subaru sticker. This became clear to me as I compared the Forester to Honda and Toyota.

I now love my Forester. Then engineering and attention to detail is amazing. For example, the driver side floor pan has a little unobtrusive hook that keeps the carpet from sliding around and interfering with your feet as you accelerate or brake. It makes me giddy just thinking about it.
posted by oddman at 4:04 PM on December 2, 2005

(my '01 Honda Civic had that floormat retention feature, as a further sidebar.. just FYI :) )
posted by kcm at 4:14 PM on December 2, 2005

kcm - I am a member at the Consumer Reports website and have been looking extensively over there.

I'm not sold on the looks of the new Jetta at all. But the price - I keep coming back to the price.

In Canadian $ you're right Wolfie the Forrester is a bit below the Audi avant, but the Subaru runs 38500 and the Audi 43K. Both are high for me, and I having owned a Subaru, even having it in the same breath as an Audi is a bit of a stretch.

Wolfie - when you say 3 series do you mean BMW or something else?

Thanks everyone - I know it's a broad question. I'm triangulating information from many different sources, not just here.
posted by mikel at 4:19 PM on December 2, 2005

It sounds like you headed for the Jetta. It's a good car and reasonably priced (relatively speaking). VW really stands behind their cars too, BTW. At least in my experience. I have a 2000 Passat Wagon.

The Car Talk guys are my favorite resource. Check out what they have to say about various models.

As far as lease vs. buy? Who cares? You just want the right car for you.

And I dig to VW turbos. People in their modern American muscle cars trip out when I drop a gear with the tiptronic and smoke them with little effort.
posted by snsranch at 4:51 PM on December 2, 2005

I love my Subaru, but at least in years gone by their resale value retention hasn't been as high as many other makes. This is relevant for a lease decision as when you lease a car you're effectively financing the difference between the purchase price and expected resale value over the term of the lease. Perhaps the specifics for Subaru are different in the Great White North; look into this for any car you're considering leasing.

But that leads to another thing to consider when leasing (and I apologize in advance if you already know this): if you're buying a car what's important isn't the sticker price but the price you expect to pay (after bargaining,) and if you're leasing you shouldn't consider the published offer because it's usually based on sticker price or close to it (most people don't know this.)

When you lease what happens is the finance company buys the car from the dealer and you finance their purchase over the period you own the car via an initial cap cost reduction plus your monthly payments. Published offers usually assume a high purchase price. When you're car shopping you should hammer the dealer for the best price you can as if you're paying cash and only after you get a firm price should you go about arranging the lease. The end number should be lower than the advertised lease deal (in any event, it can't be higher, right?)

Also, in the U.S. you can usually arrange for a lease through a third party, with even more flexibility in terms, though in your neck of the woods I hear that's harder to do. Still, that's worth researching on teh internets.

This link explains the details behind auto leases and how to negotiate the best lease deal (look at the stuff in the menu on the right titled "The Lease Guide.")

Getting a new car is always a blast. Have fun!
posted by Opposite George at 5:00 PM on December 2, 2005

Yep - 3 series BMW. I think the lease was around 300/month.

I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area and I priced on their US websites.

the Audi

The Subie

Where are you getting your numbers?
posted by Wolfie at 5:15 PM on December 2, 2005

My husband has a subaru. He likes it. I drive a fully loaded 2005 Grand Prix. I love, love, love my car.
posted by dpx.mfx at 5:34 PM on December 2, 2005

I had a New Jetta - although it wasn't a turbo. Traded it in for a Honda Accord EX and I'm never going back. You mentioned business use of the car. Do people FIT IN YOUR BACKSEAT? This was the final straw for me with my Jetta. I'm 5' 2", and there was still only about 10" of leg room behind me. Also, I'd always loved Subarus, but my coworker and her husband both have two of the early Foresters - maybe 1999s? And they rattle like I have never heard. Every square inch of the interior rattles. They don't seem to abuse their cars, and they look fine - they are just noisy.
posted by peep at 6:50 PM on December 2, 2005

When my lease was up on my Jetta in 2000 I got an a4. When that was up for the final payment I got into a 2005 A4 2.0T. Great car. The slightly bigger engine and new transmission really give it some pep. The sixth gear means I can get 36mpg at 80mph* on the freeway. The brakes came from the S4 so it stops on a dime. The did something to the suspension too. It is a blast to drive.

I was looking at moving back to a Jetta to save some $ this time, but the price delta wasn't there. I also think the service is better with the Audi -- my dealer gives me a loaner when I have to bring it in for service and the VW dealer was like, yeah if you get a Phaeton we might do that.

I also looked at the A3 and drove it but like the boot vs. the hatchback. And it seems to be selling at a premium for the same guts as an A4.

The new Passat appears to kick ass but will cost you more than the entry-level Audi.

I've been super happy in the VW/Audis I've had over the years. The only things I've had to repair are wear and tear things like tires and the windshield wipers on the Jetta.

My only beef with the new car is I can't have the iPod and satellite option at the same time. And for some reason they made the fuel latch open by a lever in the door. My old A4 locked the fuel latch and unlocked it when you unlocked the door. I still get over to the gas pump and realize I forgot to push that friggin button. All in all, pretty close to perfect.


* Professional driver on a closed course. I do not endorse driving over the posted speed limits even though the car wants to go much faster. Your milage may vary.
posted by birdherder at 6:56 PM on December 2, 2005

If you want to drive like a striped-ass ape, then something like the Audi or BMW will have to do.

For all-around reliable and fun-to-drive and practical car, hard to beat the newer Subaroo Foresters. Get the 5-speed, though - hella fun.

Good luck.
posted by zephyrbill at 8:48 PM on December 2, 2005

I just (in March) bought a Mazda 3i; my ex has a Mazda 6. I've driven both pretty extensively (especially mine, obviously ;) and think they're great cars. Caveat: I am in no way a professional driver, with limited experience in other vehicles.

I looked at a few of the VWs, including the Jetta (my mom has a Jetta) and generally came to the conclusion that the Mazda has everything I care about for less money. I got mine for about $16,500 brand new (which, now, I regret--that's another story, but I'll put in a mention for buying a two-year-old car over a new one. I'm in Boston, fyi, and the change of heart has nothing to do with the car itself.).

The 3 is a "lighter" feeling car than the 6, less horsepower, less weight, but definitely still very zoomy and fun to drive. Handles very well, corners very well. I'm very pleased with it overall, but I haven't driven it through a winter yet so hopefully my opinion won't change in three months. When I've driven my mom's Jetta it feels "stiffer" and less responsive on the brake and changing gears (all three cars are automatic.) The fold-flat back seats are a piece of cake and a godsend (moved all my belongings in two trips). Good safety rating, good mileage--20+ mpg, mainly commuting.

I also looked at the Scion xA (from Toyota, virtually identical to the Matrix in appearance) and decided against it based on the feature:price ratio and also what felt like a really wimpy engine. I didn't think I'd feel safe enough/able to keep up on the highway.

Really, though, it comes down to doing your research, deciding what you care about and how much you want to pay for it, and then driving them yourself to see if you like it or not. But I'd give both the 3 and the 6 a spin.

Good luck!
posted by fuzzbean at 9:12 PM on December 2, 2005

I love my Toyota Matrix more than a man should love a car, really. Great mileage, good snow performance (I don't even have the 4WD version) and plenty of space (it's significantly bigger than the Scion xA, actually). One of the most important things to me, though is the sense that you are "sitting up" in it, as if you were in an SUV, rather than reclining (as I feel I am in most cars). And while I'm not a gearhead, it is plenty peppy enough for me, and the handling is quite responsive.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:40 AM on December 3, 2005

I sat in an '06 Audi A3 quattro S-Line at the car show the other day. The interior seemed inferior to my '00 S4. And at $38K, I was not reaching for my wallet. Given that the Jetta/Passat and the A3/A4 are platform siblings, you're in good shape either way.
posted by Triode at 9:51 AM on December 3, 2005

I have a coworker who has a Saab 9-2x, and it seems like a great alternative to a Jetta or A3/4.

It's literally a Subaru WRX hatchback frame/engine with a quiet, high-quality SAAB interior. It's technically a GM car, so you get to take advantage of all the desperate GM sales incentives while having a car with Subaru reliability.
posted by helios at 7:18 PM on December 3, 2005