Is this an investment scam?
July 21, 2015 6:23 AM Subscribe
A foreign investment group cold called me with a 'fantastic investment opportunity'. This is a scam, right? If so, it's a very sophisticated one. How can I find out for sure?
I'm Australian, but work overseas. A month or two ago I was called by someone in Indonesia who apparently got my information from some database and wanted to know if I was interested in some kind of investment/financial advice. I didn't really care, but passed along an address and forgot about it.
A few weeks later I received a super glossy, very expensive looking brochure about The Peterson Group. It talked about their wonderful group of clever people who are so great at catering to the investment needs of expatriates around the world, etc. It looked like any other financial group brochure, but a very upmarket one.
A week or two back I was called from Indonesia again, though this time it was a guy with a New Zealand accent to see if I was interested in investing with them. I said yes out of curiosity, and this morning they called back and told me all about a company in Columbia that will do an IPO in the next few months, and that due to their super investment cleverness they know about a big merger that's coming that will practically guarantee >50% returns as soon as the company goes public.
I had presumed all along that things were legit, because it all felt very professional, but the more I think about it the dodgier it seems. Their website (linked above) is very flashy but doesn't show a lot in the way of history, and googling their name doesn't return any real reviews or comments from outside sources. A few of the steps along the way - cold calling; foreign company seeking investment in a foreign stock exchange; ACT NOW because they only have a few shares left; big returns, etc - all feel suspicious.
Actually, now that I've written it all out, it seems obvious that it's pretty risky. Have you had any kind of experience with this sort of thing? Am I right to be suspicious here? Is there a way I can find out for sure? If it is a scam, is there something I can do besides reporting them to ASIC?
Thanks for the help. It's scary how sure I was this morning that this would be great, and how fishy it seems with a little bit of reflection.
I'm Australian, but work overseas. A month or two ago I was called by someone in Indonesia who apparently got my information from some database and wanted to know if I was interested in some kind of investment/financial advice. I didn't really care, but passed along an address and forgot about it.
A few weeks later I received a super glossy, very expensive looking brochure about The Peterson Group. It talked about their wonderful group of clever people who are so great at catering to the investment needs of expatriates around the world, etc. It looked like any other financial group brochure, but a very upmarket one.
A week or two back I was called from Indonesia again, though this time it was a guy with a New Zealand accent to see if I was interested in investing with them. I said yes out of curiosity, and this morning they called back and told me all about a company in Columbia that will do an IPO in the next few months, and that due to their super investment cleverness they know about a big merger that's coming that will practically guarantee >50% returns as soon as the company goes public.
I had presumed all along that things were legit, because it all felt very professional, but the more I think about it the dodgier it seems. Their website (linked above) is very flashy but doesn't show a lot in the way of history, and googling their name doesn't return any real reviews or comments from outside sources. A few of the steps along the way - cold calling; foreign company seeking investment in a foreign stock exchange; ACT NOW because they only have a few shares left; big returns, etc - all feel suspicious.
Actually, now that I've written it all out, it seems obvious that it's pretty risky. Have you had any kind of experience with this sort of thing? Am I right to be suspicious here? Is there a way I can find out for sure? If it is a scam, is there something I can do besides reporting them to ASIC?
Thanks for the help. It's scary how sure I was this morning that this would be great, and how fishy it seems with a little bit of reflection.
Yep, 100% certainly a boiler room scam. Sorry not to write more, but there's the UK government dissuading you, so why trust me more than them?
posted by ambrosen at 6:32 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ambrosen at 6:32 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
This sounds like a group of people who watched the first 30 minutes of Wolf of Wall Street and also want to get rich selling crappy penny stocks to suckers.
posted by phunniemee at 6:33 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 6:33 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Cold call = no do
posted by overeducated_alligator at 6:35 AM on July 21, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by overeducated_alligator at 6:35 AM on July 21, 2015 [9 favorites]
Anyone who can "practically guarantee >50% returns" has literally no reason to cold call strangers. If there was any legitimacy to their offer, people would be banging their door down to hand them their money. They are cold calling you because no one can guarantee that, practically or otherwise, and this is a by-the-numbers scam.
posted by griphus at 6:50 AM on July 21, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by griphus at 6:50 AM on July 21, 2015 [15 favorites]
Ask yourself, why would these nice people at The Peterson Group be worried about a few dollars of commission from me when they could "practically guarantee" a 50% return for themselves?
Griphus got it...should have previewed...
posted by Busmick at 6:52 AM on July 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
Griphus got it...should have previewed...
posted by Busmick at 6:52 AM on July 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Yeah. Thanks for the consensus!
Is there any benefit in trying to report them to potentially help other people? What would be the best way to go about this?
posted by A Very Muddled Alpaca at 7:29 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is there any benefit in trying to report them to potentially help other people? What would be the best way to go about this?
posted by A Very Muddled Alpaca at 7:29 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
These people are the same as "how to win the lottery" people. If they could actually get these returns, why on earth would they want anyone else diluting their share?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:57 AM on July 21, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:57 AM on July 21, 2015
Completely bull****. They even put in an IP block: it's not available to people in the US.
Domain is priv registered, and only purchased by these guys as of April 2015.
Server is actually in India, Leapnet of Pune, India. Same server contains a couple others like "CrownCapitalJakarta" and other.
As I don't reader or speak Indonesian, can't help you much there. You should check with BMPK of Indonesia, which handles all business reg. If they didn't even register, that's bull**** right there.
The address hosts several businesses. No way they'd use the whole tower, adding to the BS.
posted by kschang at 8:27 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Domain is priv registered, and only purchased by these guys as of April 2015.
Server is actually in India, Leapnet of Pune, India. Same server contains a couple others like "CrownCapitalJakarta" and other.
As I don't reader or speak Indonesian, can't help you much there. You should check with BMPK of Indonesia, which handles all business reg. If they didn't even register, that's bull**** right there.
The address hosts several businesses. No way they'd use the whole tower, adding to the BS.
posted by kschang at 8:27 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
told me all about a company in Columbia that will do an IPO in the next few months, and that due to their super investment cleverness they know about a big merger that's coming that will practically guarantee >50% returns as soon as the company goes public
In the US, this would be considered "insider trading", and it's totally illegal. Scamscamscam.
posted by Brittanie at 10:03 AM on July 21, 2015
In the US, this would be considered "insider trading", and it's totally illegal. Scamscamscam.
posted by Brittanie at 10:03 AM on July 21, 2015
There's a whole world of these slickly produced scams, including in the US. It's a deep and fascinating rabbit hole you can fall into. There's even a game people play trying to front-run the scams. They know the pump scheme is a scam but they hope they can get in and ride it up and get out before the dump drops the price again. Dumb game.
Here's a random recent story about a pump-n-dump, CYNK. That one's a publicly traded US penny stock, so it's a bit simpler to find marks. A phone call from Indonesia to an Australian for a Columbian company is rather elaborate in comparison.
posted by Nelson at 10:17 AM on July 21, 2015
Here's a random recent story about a pump-n-dump, CYNK. That one's a publicly traded US penny stock, so it's a bit simpler to find marks. A phone call from Indonesia to an Australian for a Columbian company is rather elaborate in comparison.
posted by Nelson at 10:17 AM on July 21, 2015
Is there any benefit in trying to report them to potentially help other people? What would be the best way to go about this?
Since they haven't actually broken any laws in your interactions with them and you haven't experienced a loss yet, probably not. I would maybe try to find an easy way to report them to the appropriate authorities in your location and/or the scammers (like a website where you can click a link and file a report) but I wouldn't expend much more effort than that. Odds are good that nothing will happen either way.
posted by VTX at 10:25 AM on July 21, 2015
Since they haven't actually broken any laws in your interactions with them and you haven't experienced a loss yet, probably not. I would maybe try to find an easy way to report them to the appropriate authorities in your location and/or the scammers (like a website where you can click a link and file a report) but I wouldn't expend much more effort than that. Odds are good that nothing will happen either way.
posted by VTX at 10:25 AM on July 21, 2015
Searching for Cynk: The $6 Billion Penny-Stock Debacle, From Belize to Las Vegas is the article I should have linked. It goes into great detail about how the scam was set up and how it works. Again that story is for a publicly traded companies, so the details of the swindle discussed here may be different.
posted by Nelson at 10:33 AM on July 21, 2015
posted by Nelson at 10:33 AM on July 21, 2015
Had a similar thing happen to me, expat, living overseas, got a cold call from a financial advicary firm, guy was also an expat in the same country. Met up, glossy brochure, lots of low percentage fees* - what could go wrong? I was nearly about to sign when I actually carefully readh the fine print terms and conditions when I found the catch.
*interest was per month not per year
I asked about it here and got some good advice.
posted by Admira at 5:12 PM on July 21, 2015
*interest was per month not per year
I asked about it here and got some good advice.
posted by Admira at 5:12 PM on July 21, 2015
homesickness: "Also, blatant use of stock images."
I think it's not just that they're using stock images, per se. It's even worse that in this specific case, by juxtaposing that picture with a pull quote from "Peter Wagner, managing director", they're giving the very strong and very misleading impression that the guy in the stock photo is actually "Peter Wagner". Which he almost certainly isn't. Not cool.
Other red flags: 1) there are no actual people listed on their "About Us" page (in fact, aside from the "Peter Wagner, managing director", I can't find any actual names of anybody on that website); 2) the scroll of quotes about investing from prominent investors (which mixes in Rich Dad, Poor Dad Robert Kiosaki with Warren Buffet) who probably have no actual link to the firm (more tacky than fraudulent but not really a good sign).
posted by mhum at 5:54 PM on July 21, 2015
I think it's not just that they're using stock images, per se. It's even worse that in this specific case, by juxtaposing that picture with a pull quote from "Peter Wagner, managing director", they're giving the very strong and very misleading impression that the guy in the stock photo is actually "Peter Wagner". Which he almost certainly isn't. Not cool.
Other red flags: 1) there are no actual people listed on their "About Us" page (in fact, aside from the "Peter Wagner, managing director", I can't find any actual names of anybody on that website); 2) the scroll of quotes about investing from prominent investors (which mixes in Rich Dad, Poor Dad Robert Kiosaki with Warren Buffet) who probably have no actual link to the firm (more tacky than fraudulent but not really a good sign).
posted by mhum at 5:54 PM on July 21, 2015
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posted by 4th number at 6:32 AM on July 21, 2015 [5 favorites]