Winter Driving Tips

December 2, 2005 10:49 AM

Winter Driving: Subaru AWD, automatic transmission, ice, and other fun.

First, I've always driving stick-shift FWD. The Subie feels wholly different. Tips and tricks for safe driving in full-time AWD, automatic transmission, in icy conditions?

Second, is it a Really Bad Idea to use the parking brake to execute fishtail slides? I suspect locking the wheels when there's power going to them is not wise. A horrible clunk rather supports that supposition. (It was never a problem with the FWD, of course!)

posted by five fresh fish to travel & transportation (19 comments total)

My Outback has traction control (I guess they call it VDC) and it really does work. It's difficult to put the car into a skid, as the computer corrects and applies power/brakes as necessary. I don't do e-brake slides. My owners manual says that it is essentially a FWD car (90/10 f/r) until it senses a need to change that ratio.
posted by fixedgear at 10:59 AM on December 2, 2005

Your Subaru AWD automatic is probably the most stable car in those icy condition... Don't have to do anything except drive normally as if you were driving fwd cars...
If it has ABS which i think it does, brake hard during emergency stops....


Now the fun part... No problem with E-Brake for the fish tail on your AWD Subaru... as long as you let go the gas pedal while you are doing it... Turn off VDC/traction control whenever you feel like having some ice fun on your car.
posted by curiousleo at 11:18 AM on December 2, 2005

curiousleo: There is no dashboard switch to disable VDC/traction control. You'd have to pop the hood and pull a fuse from the box in the engine compartment.
posted by fixedgear at 11:30 AM on December 2, 2005

This Minnesotan thinks your car should be a-ok. I generally recommend Subaru AWD to newcomers and elderly in the area. Nice cars.

ABS drives me a little nuts on mixed snow/ice, but I haven't died yet. :)
posted by unixrat at 11:31 AM on December 2, 2005

Disclosure: I own a 2001 Outback VDC. Comments pertain to my experience with that car and my previous ride (1996 Outback.)

Congratulations on the new wheels (and welcome to the club!) You'll find that Subaru AWD is a handy feature in winter conditions (as in you can go out when only snowplows and a couple other crazy people are on the road.) But because the car handles so well under power in bad conditions it's easy to underestimate how slippery the road is.

The best thing to do to familiarize yourself with the car's handling in crappy conditions is to go to an empty parking lot after/during a storm and go nuts with it. You'll probably experience what's written below.

It's tempting to drive fast in slippery conditions; the wheels don't slip under acceleration and the car climbs hills very well, but inertia still applies. Compounding this, Subies tend to be heavy for their class. So you need to pay careful attention to the road lest you wind up off its side or in somebody else's trunk.

Also, nothing beats a good set of snow tires. The tires both my Subies shipped with were okay on dry blacktop, not so good in the wet and snow. I've actually done fine with stock tires going back and forth to Vermont (from SW Connecticut) in some pretty heavy storms with this car, but I had to take it slower than I did with the last car (which I had snows for).

Yes, VDC (if your car has it -- find out if you don't already know) can save your behind in slips -- it does a good job of keeping the car on the road in cases of oversteer and understeer -- but it isn't a magic pill. There will be situations beyond the capability of VDC -- sliding forward on ice when braking (that is, skidding to a stop) is one example -- cornering, also, though because the VDC ameliorates slipping with the ABS if you start to slide in a corner the car will usually slow enough to kill the slide. Since VDC uses the ABS you'll see premature brake wear if you try to fight the system. I see it as a lifesaver but when the VDC light goes on it's a signal to cool my jets a bit.

Not ice but snow: My ABS doesn't really seem to help with stopping distance in deep snow; sometimes it feels like it increases stopping distance. So don't underestimate stopping distance in snow (again, with my car you feel like you're on dry pavement even in pretty crappy conditions so it's an easy mistake.)

Also, if you're driving long distances in deep snow you might find the ABS turning on after a while. In my case, it's because there isn't sufficient clearance between the wheels and the body to keep snow from building up in there and this has an effect on the ABS sensors. This might not be a problem with newer Outbacks as they have more clearance. Pulling over and cleaning out the snow is a good idea if it happens, as without ABS you're hindering your ability to steer in a slippery stop as well as handicapping your VDC.

Part of how the car behaves is a function of the transmission/engine package; mine has a nominal 65/35 power split while others have a 90/10 (the 10 comes mostly from drag in the transmission). The 90/10 models are basically FWD until the car senses wheel slip. I've heard that those models cars sometimes make a noise when they engage 4WD -- could this be what happens when you do an e-brake slide? I don't do 'em in this car -- I tried in an icy lot when test-driving the car and the VDC didn't want to let it happen.

On preview: What unixrat said about ABS in crummy conditions. Also the VDC did take some getting used to as it behaves very differently than anything I've driven on snow before. I wish I could turn both off sometimes but my car makes that very difficult.

And don't misinterpret what curiousleo said about ABS -- if you have to stop NOW pushing the pedal through the floorboard is the right response regardless of road conditions, but if it's slippery the car can still take MUCH longer to stop than in dry conditions.
posted by Opposite George at 11:44 AM on December 2, 2005

er, actually I think my power split is 35 front/65 rear. The manual transmission was 50/50.
posted by Opposite George at 11:49 AM on December 2, 2005

That is, the manual transmission on the '96.

What is it with me today? To the coffeemobile!
posted by Opposite George at 11:52 AM on December 2, 2005

The tires on the two new Subarus I've bought were pretty crappy in snow. I slid into a curb while turning at fairly low speed with the car I have now, which cost me a wheel. When the original tires start to wear out, get something that's more winter-oriented.

ABS does not provide the shortest stopping distances; those are obtained by skillful drivers applying the brakes as hard as possible without locking up the wheels. The purpose of ABS is to allow steering while braking heavily.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:04 PM on December 2, 2005

I have a 02 Forester (AWD) and the best tip I can give is to watch the temperature, on the console, and if it drops to about 33 degrees or lower keep an eye on the road. If you see what you expect is ice, find a flat, straight part of the road and do an "ice check." When no cars are around, hit the brake to force a slide to check how icy conditions really are. With the Forester, I find I creep into ice covered roads too fast and need to slow down stop quicker. Hope this helps...
posted by orlin at 1:12 PM on December 2, 2005

Yes I agree with Kirth -- two entries above -- get rid of the stock tires and get a generic (cheeper) blizzak tire with stipping.
posted by orlin at 1:29 PM on December 2, 2005

Keep in mind that AWD helps you accelerate faster on snow/ice but DOES NOT HELP YOU STOP ANY FASTER. On public roads, you should avoid slides as much as possible. Slow down before turns, don't accelerate when you are in turns, etc.

Also, what everyone else has said about tires - good tires are the most sensible upgrade for any car driven on public roads.
posted by b1tr0t at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2005

one thing to keep in mind about ABS: ABS pulses your brakes when it detects a skid or slide. this will not stop you any more quickly than a non-ABS car. in fact, your stopping distance will be longer.

the main benefit of ABS is that it does however allow you to steer while braking, which is something you can't do when your wheels are locked up. so just remember, if you feel your pedal pulsing during a panic stop, you're still probably going to have to steer around that gaggle of nuns.
posted by sergeant sandwich at 2:44 PM on December 2, 2005

I'm used to ABS, no worries there.

It's a 91 Forester, so no VTC.

When in a slide situation in a FWD, one points the wheels where one wants to go and accelerates.

Same deal with AWD?
posted by five fresh fish at 2:59 PM on December 2, 2005

I'd like to echo what b1tr0t said. All cars have 4-wheel brakes. All other things being equal, a 2-wheel-drive car stops just as well in snow (or dirt, or mud, or deep water) as a 4-wheel or all-wheel drive car. Don't let your ability to corner better lull you into a situation where you can't stop in time.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:44 PM on December 2, 2005

Same deal with AWD?

In the sense that you always want to steer in the direction you want the car to go, yes.

The accelerator issue gets a little more complicated depending on how your car divides power (which depends on your drivetrain package and whether you have VDC.) All current Subarus try to direct power to the wheels with the most traction, within some limit. This should happen quicker than you'd react with the accelerator, but if your car is normally rearward biased (or there's a problem with your system) sending more power to the wheels could initiate or exacerbate oversteer. The safest thing to do unless you're in a race or in a car prone to throttle-off oversteer is to lay off the power gently; this is the case in a FWD, too.

If you have VDC, the car will constantly compare steering wheel angle to accelerometer readings and selectively cut power and apply the appropriate brake(s) (it's a 4-channel system,) again hopefully before you even know what's going on. If you pound the pedal here the car'll just hit the brakes harder (what I meant by "fighting the system.") So gunning it won't get you anything but added brake wear and confusion -- it's a very weird feeling if you're used to driving a non-VDC car in the snow and I'm still not totally used to it.

Oh, for the days when I used to power slide into my parents' driveway!
posted by Opposite George at 6:24 PM on December 2, 2005

Sorry, I was focusing on icy and understeer situations there; on sticky pavement sending (a judicious amount of) power to the front will pull a skidding rear straight in a FWD car. If you have a 90/10 split and no VDC the same rule would apply there.
posted by Opposite George at 6:30 PM on December 2, 2005

Okay, I see you have a Forester (you wrote '91 but I presume you meant 2001.) Since you have automatic you most likely have the 90/10 system and can drive it like a FWD car, with the added knowledge that a working system should help you out when the front slips by sending power to the rear. Of course, too much power to the rear might put you in a four-wheel skid, so always be careful with the gas pedal.

Oversteer situations theoretically won't result in extra power to the rear so the car SHOULD handle like a FWD there, but IANAAENAOOTDACRSSMRIUB.* Your best bet is to play in a snowy parking lot and see how YOUR setup behaves (tires, weight distribution, drivetrain all impact behavior in a skid.) Also check on teh intarnets and usenet for the experiences of other Forester owners.

*I Am Neither An Automotive Engineer Nor An Owner Of That Drivetrain And Certain Road Surface Situations May Result In Unexpected Behavior. Phew!
posted by Opposite George at 6:47 PM on December 2, 2005

The best thing to do at the beginning of winter drivinging an big empty parking on a couple of snowy and icy nights and and (re)aqquaint yourself with how your car handles in crummy conditions, whether the car is new to you or not.

Seargent Sandwich: It's not universally true that ABS increases stopping distances. It's pretty well established that for most drivers, ABS decreaces stopping distance under most conditions, including wet and slippery roads, relative to ordinary brakes. The exception is with loose snow or gravel.
posted by Good Brain at 11:41 PM on December 2, 2005

(you wrote '91 but I presume you meant 2001.)

For some reason I am completely retarded when it comes to stating my car's model year. I have never been able to get it right the first time.

If I find a good parking lot, there's no doubt I'll learn to drive the ice. I just don't see that I'm going to have that opportunity any time soon.

Thx for all the advice. I'm beginning to like this car's handling, in that it's becoming more predictable the more I play with sliding.

My previous car I had figured out to within inches. I could damn near ebrake slide it into a tight parking spot. (Mostly, I repressed that urge. Hate to screw up and take out someone else's car!)
posted by five fresh fish at 9:11 AM on December 4, 2005