Can this friendship be saved?

July 13, 2015 2:50 PM

I e-mailed a friend of 8 years recently, saying I'd be in the area and asking if she wanted to get a drink.

(She lives an hour and a half away.) After some time, she replied with, "No, thank you." The last time I'd seen her I'd gotten a little hot, not at her, but at her friend who I perceived as goading me, but I thought that was all worked out, but maybe not. So I wrote back and asked, "Is there something I need to make amends to you for?" She wrote back and said she'd been finding our interactions increasingly difficult and uncomfortable. She then apologized for not being more direct with me sooner about this; she'd been trying to sort it out.

She adds that there is a level of conflict, or simply not jiving with each other, that makes hanging out together less than enjoyable for her. (I saw her last in September but I don't remember any conflict at that time-- nor do I remember meeting any time between then and now, except the one I mention briefly above.

I have some medical issues that may affect short- and long-term memory, but it seems I would remember a conflict. In fact I know I would, as I am horrible with conflict and go out of my way to avoid it. Plus she is this kind of role model for me in many ways and I can't see myself picking any kind of fight with her as a valued mentor. The time span itself (last saw her in September) makes it hard to remember, though. I was also flipping through my mental Rolodex and can't remember any time we had an argument or a disagreement (unless I was really clueless to her hints).

She concludes this mail telling me that she wishes me the best and she will be glad to run into me when we are at the same events, but she doesn't want to make plans together anymore.

My thoughts were that friends would sit down and talk it through, but when I wrote apologizing sincerely and asking for a couple details to help me see what I did. I received no answer. So -- is this it? Has she broken up with me as a friend, or do I just need to back off and be patient? My instinct is to give her lots of space, but I can't imagine doing better if I don't know what I did. Throwaway e-mail: [e-mail]

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (23 answers total)

I'm sorry, but yes, you need to let this friendship go. It takes a lot of courage for someone to be so honest as she was with you about this sort of thing. You should respect that and move on with your life.
posted by something something at 2:52 PM on July 13, 2015 [113 favorites]

I think you have to accept that there's nothing to do here and move on. I know it can be really, really hard to accept that things are unfixable, or that at least they're not worth the over the top effort to try and fix, but this sounds like the case.

Sometimes, you're going to end up with a different perception of events, as it sounds like you did here. This is really hard to hash out. It sounds like you only see her infrequently, so I think you have to let it go.
posted by mercredi at 2:53 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]

Clearly your idea of what happened and hers do not match. You're not going to convince her otherwise. She's been clear that your friendship is over. Let this go.
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:54 PM on July 13, 2015 [9 favorites]

Yes, she's broken up with you (albeit gently) as a friend.

Let it go. Real friendships don't take work - they just are. Don't take it as implying any failing on your part; she just isn't feeling it and wants to back off from the friendship. It happens, and it's better this way than if she had just put a brave face on it for the sake of politeness.
posted by pipeski at 2:54 PM on July 13, 2015

I'm sorry this has happened; it's a hard thing.

Yes, this is it. She doesn't need you to improve or do better in a relationship with her, because it's done now. There may not have been An Incident for you to have forgotten or even need to apologize for - the conflict may be one of mindset or emotional connection (lack thereof), and not a thing you did or said. That may make it harder in some ways, but regardless, the relationship is done and you have to let it (and her) go.
posted by rtha at 2:56 PM on July 13, 2015 [10 favorites]

Yes, that's it I'm afraid. I would maybe suggest a brief note saying 'thanks for your honesty - I hope one day we can talk again'. You're not going to get a more satisfactory explanation than you already have.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:56 PM on July 13, 2015 [6 favorites]

Yes, she has terminated this friendship, and pushing for resolution/answers/whatever at this point could turn you from a person she would be glad to run into at events to a person she might prefer to avoid at all costs.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:58 PM on July 13, 2015 [25 favorites]

This is tricky, but she has actually handled this very well and you would do well to take this as a lesson learned and move on. Any further attempts to contact her will demonstrate you don't really understand or respect the boundaries she's set in place.
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:05 PM on July 13, 2015 [17 favorites]

My thoughts were that friends would sit down and talk it through

Your thoughts are correct. But yet she does not wish to sit down and talk it through. Therefore, you are not friends (at least in her eyes, and friendship must be mutual or it doesn't exist).

I'm sorry. It's best if you don't contact her again. Sebmojo's advice of sending one last "the door is open" message would be good if you really could be patient enough to wait for her to come around, and also if you hadn't already sent the email asking for "details" (which, I'm sure that to you seemed like a perfectly reasonable request but I bet that no matter how politely you worded it could come off as kind of demanding).

If by some strange happenstance she does respond to your message, please don't try to debate or rebut or promise to improve or anything. Just send Sebmojo's message word for word and don't contact her again.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:11 PM on July 13, 2015 [7 favorites]

Agree with Sebmojo - she's made her feelings clear and as mind-boggling as it may seem to you, has at least done so in a respectful way. Best to leave things be.

I had a friend cut me off earlier this year and despite seeking knowledge on why, I never received a response or closure on the issue. At least she has cared about you and respected you enough to give you that. The pain will lessen with time, good luck.
posted by Kat_Dubs at 3:11 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]

I don't remember any conflict at that time-- nor do I remember meeting any time between then and now, except the one I mention briefly above

Conflict doesn't have to be that the two of you fight, conflict could be something like "can't get along with my friends" or just "isn't interested in talking about the things I want to talk about and won't let it go" or something. So it might be easier to see this as a bad fit situation than trying to nail down what the specific thing was. Because honestly it seems like you kind of know what the issue was: you got into a conflict with her friend. It sounds like this may have been unpleasant. There could have been no amends to be made (i.e. you didn't have to apologize) but it could still put you into the "people I don't really want to hang out with because they Do That Thing" category) and that happens sometimes.

I am in that category for some people, I know, and some people are in that category with me. It feels crappy to be friends-dumped, but just like the end of other relationships, when one person says it's over, it's over, it's not an opening to talk about the relationship. It's tough to deal with but it sounds like she was trying to be decently respectful of your feelings but she has feelings of her own and it seems like those involve being done talking with you.
posted by jessamyn at 3:30 PM on July 13, 2015 [32 favorites]

I think others have handled the "is this friendship over" aspect pretty well (i.e., yes), but along the lines of what Jessamyn said - different people have different ideas about what constitutes a "conflict" and indeed, what even constitutes a pleasant interaction with a friend.

For example (and this is just an analogy, I'm not saying it's exactly what happened in your situation), I have this relative I see pretty often who I generally like, but whose company I don't always enjoy. There's a lot of history and the reasons are complicated, but a lot of it ultimately boils down to the fact that he has to be "right" all the time, about everything. If I just fail to agree with him on some random topic, even like how to do a certain home repair where I wasn't even really looking for his opinion, he will just absolutely advocate his position all the way into the ground until I either agree or pointedly change the subject. It's exhausting. But here's the thing: he just thinks that way and likes to talk that way! If we do ever have (his version of) a "conflict" about something, which basically means my voice gets raised or I get agitated, he will grovel and apologize profusely - but when he's practically yelling his opinions at me for an hour on end, that's just normal conversation to him. He thinks he is totally polite and even apologetic and just can't fathom why someone may prefer not to engage that way.

Anyway, the "conflict" your friend perceived could be something like that. Your approaches to social interaction may just not be compatible. Honestly this is supported by the fact that she tried to shut you down gracefully and you followed up by asking for specific instances of bad behavior - I'm sure you didn't have any ill intentions, but from the other perspective this could come off as her trying to politely decline to see you, and you essentially sealioning and refusing to take no for an answer. So, maybe try to gain some insight into your own behavior in this way, but don't seek it (or any sort of "closure") through further interactions with her.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:00 PM on July 13, 2015 [13 favorites]

The bit that stood out to me was that you got in an argument with someone else the last time you saw her. If interactions like that are typical of what it's like to hang out with you then it doesn't matter that you didn't get into an argument with HER.

It is enough to make me not want to hang out with someone if they are frequently (pick one of the following) irritable, won't let that one thing go, too focused on themselves, etc. I'm not saying any of these things are what you did in particular, but she's saying that there's something about your personality that doesn't jibe with hers. And she actually gave you a really nice ending-the-friendship email. But no, it's not her job to sit down with you and give you a blow by blow of why she doesn't want to be your friend. It's a social connection, not a performance review.
posted by MsMolly at 4:22 PM on July 13, 2015 [10 favorites]

As mentioned above, you do need to let it go without pressing it further. It's the respectful thing to do if you value her as a person.

Here's the thing I wanted to add, though, that might be helpful for you to hear. Although this hurts, and it's well within her purview to do this, it doesn't mean that it has anything to say about your value as a human being or a person, or even whether or not you were being a good friend. Sometimes people don't connect like they want to, and with only so much energy to give in life, we have to figure out whether or not that means we invest in relationships that drain us, or ones that give us energy. And the thing is, these kinds of connections can be totally arbitrary and have nothing to do with our value as people, but with the arbitrary whims of our likes, dislikes, personalities, and social backgrounds, which include all of our learned behaviors regarding being comfortable around others and resolving conflict. "Not working" does not mean "not worthy."

Again, I'm sorry this hurts, but if you admire and respect her (which I imagine makes this more painful), you should give her autonomy to make decisions, and do so without harboring a persistent hope that there may be something in the future that you can do to change her mind. It will be helpful both to you and to her.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:40 PM on July 13, 2015 [13 favorites]

The fact that you sent an email asking for details after she said she had no interest in going further is the answer to your details question.

You're right, friends talk things through, but she made it clear she is not going to be your friend going forward. She asked that you be civil with each other when you see each other, but that was a courtesy more than anything else.
posted by AugustWest at 5:17 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]

I've been friend-dumped, and it totally sucks. I sympathize.

But no, this friendship can't be saved. Don't reach out to her again, even to apologize. Focus on being a good friend to the people who want and appreciate your friendship.
posted by bunderful at 6:59 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]

Considering the fact that you guys barely see each other, I disagree that she was being kind and respectful in dumping you. She could've just easily blown you off.

Anyway, this friendship is definitely over and any prodding you do will only hurt your case. I think you can look at what she said and think about whether or not you need to do some work on yourself to be a better person and a better friend. If so, then you've learned a valuable lesson. But if you look and you don't think so, then fuck it, it's her loss and move on.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:50 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry, it sucks. It happens to most of us at some point or another and it hurts.
The "no thank you" response was unkind. She could have just as well said sorry, she wasn't in the mood. Or that she was sorry but she didn't want to continue the friendship. But a curt "no thank you" sounds passive aggressive to me. So maybe, just maybe, she's not perfect herself either? You guys are both imperfect people, is all I'm saying.
Please be kind to yourself. Grieve the friendship. When you start feeling better, try to think about what you can learn from the experience.
Big hugs.
posted by M. at 12:58 AM on July 14, 2015 [1 favorite]

but I can't imagine doing better if I don't know what I did

This is the exact same logic used by privileged people when they wander into minority spaces and disrupt the conversation. It's a way to turn the conversation back to you, and forge more of a connection with her. She's made it clear that she doesn't want that.

I've been on both sides of the friend-dumping coin. I got slow faded on by someone and it took me nearly a year to figure it out, because they were just generally terrible at keeping in touch. I slow faded on someone who refused to accept it, and eventually had to be quite clear about the why to them. Then two years later, they contacted me again. My only regret was not blocking their number on my phone to prevent them from contacting me.

If you actually respect this person, respect their choices. It's their right to choose who they have as a friend. She's made it very clear what she wants, but you're continuing to demand more contact from someone who doesn't want to provide you with it and who has made that clear to you. For her sake, if not your own, leave her alone. It's on you to not be in denial about this.
posted by Solomon at 1:33 AM on July 14, 2015 [7 favorites]

Mod note: From the OP:

Thanks, you all pretty much validated what I was thinking. I feel so awful though, like she never even gave me the opportunity to change. Like telling me was too much work.

I do have a friend who does This One Thing. I just look at her and say softly "Ann? That thing? You're doing it" She knows it causes pain to me. I have only asked her twice in over 30 years.

And hey, I do understand boundaries. Were it to help, I would back up to Washington State.

Thanks for providing this service.

posted by taz (staff) at 7:21 AM on July 14, 2015

I wonder if a large part of the pain of this is that you're viewing her ending this friendship as a big judgement about your character, or your friend-worthiness? I think it would be helpful to try to re-frame this as more of an issue of friendship-incompatibility. For whatever reason, she just doesn't think that the two of you work well as friends. It's frustrating that you don't know exactly what you did to make her feel this way, but even if you did make some mistakes during your friendship with her, this really is just as much about her as it is about you.

Respect her choices, move on, but also remember that she's just one person and you're still worthy of friendship with other people.
posted by Asparagus at 7:39 AM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]

Based on your update, I will just say this -- friends, especially casual friends (sounds like this is the sort of person you meet up with perhaps once every few months?) don't really owe us the "opportunity to change." On the contrary, she may view it as highly inappropriate to ask you to change. I would certainly be very reluctant to ask a casual friend to change their behavior just to suit my preferences. Instead, if our interactions weren't doing it for me, I'd probably do much as your friend has and decide it would be better for us to go our separate ways...after all, there are lots of people in the world, and better to find people I am naturally compatible with rather than going around forcing every single person I meet to fit into my particular mold of how they should act. It's not as if she's said "You are so offensive that I never want to see you again." Instead, she's just let you know that she's happy to run into you at group events, but doesn't wish to hang out one-on-one.

I have had the "I need this dynamic to change if we're going to remain friends" talk with litererally two people in my entire life, both of them very close friends. In one case, neither of us were really willing to put in the work to make the dynamic change, and we're no longer friends. In the other, we both did -- we worked through the issue and we remain best friends to this day. But I'll emphasize that in both cases it was a pretty difficult discussion and something where we both had to be invested in making the relationship function on a healthier level. In no way is it something I would ask or expect of someone I see a few times a year. These were both very close friends who I saw pretty much every day. I get the impression that you're viewing this as "there's this one little thing, and if only I knew what it was, I would easily be able to change it and everything would be fine!" But it might be a much deeper conversational/personality/relationship pattern that she doesn't feel is her place to ask you to change. And really, that might be way more work on both of your parts than is worth it given your level of connection.

Finally:

And hey, I do understand boundaries. Were it to help, I would back up to Washington State.

So...there is a super clear boundary here. She's very clearly stated that her boundary is: "she will be glad to run into me when we are at the same events, but she doesn't want to make plans together anymore". I get it, you don't like that boundary -- but that's her boundary. And what you can do to "help" is to respect that boundary and let her be the one to approach you in the future if she so chooses.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:51 AM on July 14, 2015 [3 favorites]

Nobody is ever obligated to give you the chance to change. You are not entitled to that, so don't operate as though you are.
posted by Hermione Granger at 1:20 PM on July 14, 2015 [4 favorites]