Living in Sydney is awesome, right?
July 7, 2015 5:53 PM Subscribe
My partner and I are considering a move from Adelaide to Sydney: help me learn to love life in the big city!
The reason for moving is that Sydney offers better work opportunities for my partner. She has a job offer in Camperdown that she's very excited about. I'm likely to get a really good offer in Kensington. It's probably not difficulty to guess who the employers are, but nothing's official so I'd prefer not to name them explicitly. And as deeply attached as I am to my comfortable Adelaide lifestyle, I think my partner is right to think that she needs to leave town in order to move her career forward, because her opportunities here look very limited.
My partner lived in Chicago for a long time, and I believe her when she says that there are awesome things that you can do in big cities that just aren't possible in smaller ones. There are things that offset the insane property prices, smaller living spaces and horrible traffic. In the abstract I can see how this is true, but I have no big city experiences of my own to back this up. I feel like I could love the big city: the things I like most about Adelaide are those respects in which it mimics a big one. I love that I can walk out of my office and ponder which of the 100+ restaurants in walking distance I should go get lunch at. I love taking trains to work. I love the huge crowds that appear when big events roll into town.
But that's not the same thing as really living in a big city, and if we move I don't want to fall into the trap of trying to recreate an Adelaide lifestyle in Sydney. Sydney needs to be something I approach on its own terms, and not something I think of as a overpriced Adelaide with bad football. That way lies madness. I want to approach this with the mindset of a Sydneysider, not an Adeladean. I want to love Sydney, and apart from the NRL issue I think I can.
So I need help imagining all those things that you can do in Sydney but you can't do in Adelaide.
What kind of awesome lifestyle could we aim for in Sydney? Given our constraints a realistic living arrangement for us is a 3 bedroom apartment or townhouse in the inner west. At current prices the houses there are a bit out of our range, but units and townhouses around Marrickville or Dulwich Hill aren't too much of a stretch. We have two young kids and we're in our late 30s / early 40s. We're indifferent to beaches. I love to run, and I don't do it enough. We like hanging out in coffee shops and small bars, though kids can make it hard. Day trips on the weekend are great, especially if we can get there by train: the kids really like trains and they drive us nuts in the car.
Also: As it happens we'll be in Sydney in a few days time (Sun-Wed) to scope things out (we're staying in Camperdown), so if anyone has any suggestions for what we could or should do while we're there I'd appreciate it.
The reason for moving is that Sydney offers better work opportunities for my partner. She has a job offer in Camperdown that she's very excited about. I'm likely to get a really good offer in Kensington. It's probably not difficulty to guess who the employers are, but nothing's official so I'd prefer not to name them explicitly. And as deeply attached as I am to my comfortable Adelaide lifestyle, I think my partner is right to think that she needs to leave town in order to move her career forward, because her opportunities here look very limited.
My partner lived in Chicago for a long time, and I believe her when she says that there are awesome things that you can do in big cities that just aren't possible in smaller ones. There are things that offset the insane property prices, smaller living spaces and horrible traffic. In the abstract I can see how this is true, but I have no big city experiences of my own to back this up. I feel like I could love the big city: the things I like most about Adelaide are those respects in which it mimics a big one. I love that I can walk out of my office and ponder which of the 100+ restaurants in walking distance I should go get lunch at. I love taking trains to work. I love the huge crowds that appear when big events roll into town.
But that's not the same thing as really living in a big city, and if we move I don't want to fall into the trap of trying to recreate an Adelaide lifestyle in Sydney. Sydney needs to be something I approach on its own terms, and not something I think of as a overpriced Adelaide with bad football. That way lies madness. I want to approach this with the mindset of a Sydneysider, not an Adeladean. I want to love Sydney, and apart from the NRL issue I think I can.
So I need help imagining all those things that you can do in Sydney but you can't do in Adelaide.
What kind of awesome lifestyle could we aim for in Sydney? Given our constraints a realistic living arrangement for us is a 3 bedroom apartment or townhouse in the inner west. At current prices the houses there are a bit out of our range, but units and townhouses around Marrickville or Dulwich Hill aren't too much of a stretch. We have two young kids and we're in our late 30s / early 40s. We're indifferent to beaches. I love to run, and I don't do it enough. We like hanging out in coffee shops and small bars, though kids can make it hard. Day trips on the weekend are great, especially if we can get there by train: the kids really like trains and they drive us nuts in the car.
Also: As it happens we'll be in Sydney in a few days time (Sun-Wed) to scope things out (we're staying in Camperdown), so if anyone has any suggestions for what we could or should do while we're there I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and if you like running, there's still time to enter the City to Surf. It's quite simply an amazing huge event.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:33 PM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:33 PM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Glad you're coming to visit first. Sydney can be big and anonymous/lonely if you let it be that way. If you're staying in Camperdown, you'll have Newtown up the road. King Street: Cafes, small bars, restaurants, kid friendly pubs. Lots of small businesses. Hang around Erskineville too.
The inner west is full of young families like yours. Find the playgrounds and you'll meet them. I think making friends will help you feel at home. There is a lot of community in the inner west.
Kingsford, just up the road from Kensington, has lots of delicious, cheap, kid friendly, mostly asian, places to eat. Not a lot of hanging out but venture east and you'll find the beachy communities too.
We love beaches but if you don't, you might still enjoy taking the kids to explore the rock pools. The ones up the hill from maroubra beach are a favourite of ours.
Kensington is also close enough to centennial park that you can go for a run at lunchtime. Centennial Park is great for families for picnics/bbqs but it's a runner's favourite in Sydney.
The City of Sydney council is amazing. We lived in Surry Hills when the kids were little and had access to the best libraries, lots of perks like free holiday programs for kids, free tickets to stuff like ice skating next to Hyde Park. They have the best playgrounds. Their website is great for what's on, for both council residents and everyone in general.
I love Sydney but have also lived in a small but significant European town and loved having a mini version of the big city so if I don't sound too excited, it's just because your question reminds me of how idyllic it was. I miss it even though I call Sydney home.
posted by stellathon at 6:37 PM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
The inner west is full of young families like yours. Find the playgrounds and you'll meet them. I think making friends will help you feel at home. There is a lot of community in the inner west.
Kingsford, just up the road from Kensington, has lots of delicious, cheap, kid friendly, mostly asian, places to eat. Not a lot of hanging out but venture east and you'll find the beachy communities too.
We love beaches but if you don't, you might still enjoy taking the kids to explore the rock pools. The ones up the hill from maroubra beach are a favourite of ours.
Kensington is also close enough to centennial park that you can go for a run at lunchtime. Centennial Park is great for families for picnics/bbqs but it's a runner's favourite in Sydney.
The City of Sydney council is amazing. We lived in Surry Hills when the kids were little and had access to the best libraries, lots of perks like free holiday programs for kids, free tickets to stuff like ice skating next to Hyde Park. They have the best playgrounds. Their website is great for what's on, for both council residents and everyone in general.
I love Sydney but have also lived in a small but significant European town and loved having a mini version of the big city so if I don't sound too excited, it's just because your question reminds me of how idyllic it was. I miss it even though I call Sydney home.
posted by stellathon at 6:37 PM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, without giving you any precise answers, I lived in Sydney for six months and Melbourne for five years (now in Brisbane, sadly, but planning to return to Melbourne), and I think one of the advantages to living in such a sprawling place (Brizzy is a bit sprawly, I guess) is the process of discovery. Even if you just attack the CBD of Sydney or Melbourne in a kind of grid pattern and spend a day working through a few squares you're going to uncover thing after thing. A lot of it is going to be annoying bullshit like a super-expensive clothing store with like four dresses in it and nothing else, or something completely mundane like a fire hazard of an off-brand 7-11, but if you have any interest in anything in the world you're probably going to find some little nook or cranny that caters to it in some small way.
In Melbourne I would go to a different place in town for lunch pretty much every day, which takes you down one alley after another, and I still came nowhere close to exhausting the possibilities. Some were good, some were shit, but all of them were there. Brisbane doesn't have that. Brisbane is like a tree that has had all the interesting stuff shaken out of it and swept away and burned.
In Melbourne (and Sydney, to a lesser extent, simply because I didn't like the place and wasn't there for long) I was discovering bookstores and record stores that I'd never even heard of before, down lanes I'd walked past a hundred times, because I'd just decided, hey, maybe I'll walk down here (and hope I don't get stabbed). Posters for gigs or shows or clubs that seemed to be pasted up only in certain places. A quirky little pub or whatever. Just tiny things like that, which all kind of soak into you after a while until you realise that if humans are going to be forced to live inside one another's assholes in dense cities, this is what they should be like. Not great open spaces of dull grey like Brisbane, but twists and turns and splashes of colour almost like clues, like leads to other discoveries.
In Melbourne this is incredibly easy. You just get on a tram and get off somewhere that looks interesting. You'll find a little cake shop or an antique store or a gallery and you go in there and there's going to be a little rack with postcards on it advertising a hot rod show in the mountains, or a walk for some kind of charity, or a flower show at a garden. Or you'll overhear somebody talking about an amazing thing or place just a few suburbs over. A market that's happening. Anything and everything. And if I liked people and could be bothered with them, I probably could have easily struck up conversation with them and asked about other things.
A proper city, to my mind, should be like the pages of a good book. Umberto Eco (I'm pretty sure) said that books lead to other books, and so cities should be like the pages of books, laying out maps of discovery and adventure and experience for you.
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:44 PM on July 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
In Melbourne I would go to a different place in town for lunch pretty much every day, which takes you down one alley after another, and I still came nowhere close to exhausting the possibilities. Some were good, some were shit, but all of them were there. Brisbane doesn't have that. Brisbane is like a tree that has had all the interesting stuff shaken out of it and swept away and burned.
In Melbourne (and Sydney, to a lesser extent, simply because I didn't like the place and wasn't there for long) I was discovering bookstores and record stores that I'd never even heard of before, down lanes I'd walked past a hundred times, because I'd just decided, hey, maybe I'll walk down here (and hope I don't get stabbed). Posters for gigs or shows or clubs that seemed to be pasted up only in certain places. A quirky little pub or whatever. Just tiny things like that, which all kind of soak into you after a while until you realise that if humans are going to be forced to live inside one another's assholes in dense cities, this is what they should be like. Not great open spaces of dull grey like Brisbane, but twists and turns and splashes of colour almost like clues, like leads to other discoveries.
In Melbourne this is incredibly easy. You just get on a tram and get off somewhere that looks interesting. You'll find a little cake shop or an antique store or a gallery and you go in there and there's going to be a little rack with postcards on it advertising a hot rod show in the mountains, or a walk for some kind of charity, or a flower show at a garden. Or you'll overhear somebody talking about an amazing thing or place just a few suburbs over. A market that's happening. Anything and everything. And if I liked people and could be bothered with them, I probably could have easily struck up conversation with them and asked about other things.
A proper city, to my mind, should be like the pages of a good book. Umberto Eco (I'm pretty sure) said that books lead to other books, and so cities should be like the pages of books, laying out maps of discovery and adventure and experience for you.
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:44 PM on July 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I moved from Perth to Sydney ten years ago. Things that make Sydney fantastic, particularly in comparison with Perth (which from my experience, is not that disimilar to Adelaide):
Suburbs have commercial and cultural centres. So on a Saturday, you can wander up the road and visit the book shop, the cafe, the op shop, the library and the post office and then jump on the train or the bus to go somewhere else without needing to get in a car or go into a giant soulless shopping centre. This makes me happy.
There is always something to do. Too much in fact. I had to stop reading Timeout and start saying no to people after a few years, because I just couldn't do it all. The theatre is fantastic, a completely different class to what's available in Perth, and the bands - all the bands. (though I think more bands make it to Adelaide than Perth) There's also a lot more history built into the bones of Sydney, that makes it more interesting to explore. Having people to visit is great, because it's a fun city to show people around. There are world-class/unique things to see and do. Perth is great because I have friends and family there that I love hanging out with. Perth without that would be pretty bloody dull. You have to carve out your own bit of Sydney, you'll never know it all, but enjoying Sydney is less dependent on knowing people than it would be in Perth.
Public transport. FERRIES. It sounds like you are in a good spot in Adelaide, this was not my experience growing up in Perth. Designated driver requirements in Sydney are rare. And the network goes more places than in and out of the city, making weekend trips more feasible. Note - getting from Marrickville to Kensington by public transport is not as straightforward as one would hope. You might consider the southern eastern suburbs too. The city is getting better for bicycles all the time, and it's a good transport option (often faster than cars/buses) if you've got the fitness to get up the hills and can handle the crazy traffic.
Multiculturalism. Perth has a lot of immigrants, but in Sydney it's different. Immigrants concentrate in specific areas and create strong communities of their own. This results in excellent food options, and more opportunities for interesting exploring. Go and explore the food shops in Bankstown, check out the Indian in Harris Park, have yum cha in Hurstville etc etc. There's a lot of "come visit our...." open days that are kid friendly and educational. Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by people who don't look like them, but it's fun playing tourist in your own city, or even suburb. My suburb has a Greek orthodox Church, a baptist church with romanian services and a turkish social club. The shopping strip has cafes/delis/bakeries/grocers that are lebanese, swiss-french, italian, greek, indian, turkish, pakistani, thai, chinese or portuguese. And this is a small strip of shops in a quiet suburb that takes about 5 minutes to walk down, if you don't get distracted by the shiny things.
The weather is more temperate and humid, and the soil better, so the native flora is more lush. Things don't die in summer here, because it rains every few days. (Seriously - lawns stay green without watering. It's bizzare.) The geology and geography is also way (way) more interesting. Sandstone makes for stunning cliffs and beaches.
One thing - born and raised Sydneysiders are an odd bunch. They view their city quite differently to us imports. (E.g. They don't primarily identify as Sydneysiders, but instead with the part of Sydney they grew up in/now live in. They are, in many ways, more insular than Perthites)
As for what to do in Sydney next week - catch ferries. Go to the zoo or Luna Park. Catch the lightrail to Sideways in Dulwich Hill for brunch, or the 426, 423 or 428 bus to The Henson in Marrickville for a late arvo drink and dinner (both v. kid friendly). Time out has a kids section, for more ideas. Google maps is really good for working out public transport options.
And organise a meetup when you get here. We're v friendly, but a bit slack at organising things.
posted by kjs4 at 10:12 PM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Suburbs have commercial and cultural centres. So on a Saturday, you can wander up the road and visit the book shop, the cafe, the op shop, the library and the post office and then jump on the train or the bus to go somewhere else without needing to get in a car or go into a giant soulless shopping centre. This makes me happy.
There is always something to do. Too much in fact. I had to stop reading Timeout and start saying no to people after a few years, because I just couldn't do it all. The theatre is fantastic, a completely different class to what's available in Perth, and the bands - all the bands. (though I think more bands make it to Adelaide than Perth) There's also a lot more history built into the bones of Sydney, that makes it more interesting to explore. Having people to visit is great, because it's a fun city to show people around. There are world-class/unique things to see and do. Perth is great because I have friends and family there that I love hanging out with. Perth without that would be pretty bloody dull. You have to carve out your own bit of Sydney, you'll never know it all, but enjoying Sydney is less dependent on knowing people than it would be in Perth.
Public transport. FERRIES. It sounds like you are in a good spot in Adelaide, this was not my experience growing up in Perth. Designated driver requirements in Sydney are rare. And the network goes more places than in and out of the city, making weekend trips more feasible. Note - getting from Marrickville to Kensington by public transport is not as straightforward as one would hope. You might consider the southern eastern suburbs too. The city is getting better for bicycles all the time, and it's a good transport option (often faster than cars/buses) if you've got the fitness to get up the hills and can handle the crazy traffic.
Multiculturalism. Perth has a lot of immigrants, but in Sydney it's different. Immigrants concentrate in specific areas and create strong communities of their own. This results in excellent food options, and more opportunities for interesting exploring. Go and explore the food shops in Bankstown, check out the Indian in Harris Park, have yum cha in Hurstville etc etc. There's a lot of "come visit our...." open days that are kid friendly and educational. Some people feel uncomfortable surrounded by people who don't look like them, but it's fun playing tourist in your own city, or even suburb. My suburb has a Greek orthodox Church, a baptist church with romanian services and a turkish social club. The shopping strip has cafes/delis/bakeries/grocers that are lebanese, swiss-french, italian, greek, indian, turkish, pakistani, thai, chinese or portuguese. And this is a small strip of shops in a quiet suburb that takes about 5 minutes to walk down, if you don't get distracted by the shiny things.
The weather is more temperate and humid, and the soil better, so the native flora is more lush. Things don't die in summer here, because it rains every few days. (Seriously - lawns stay green without watering. It's bizzare.) The geology and geography is also way (way) more interesting. Sandstone makes for stunning cliffs and beaches.
One thing - born and raised Sydneysiders are an odd bunch. They view their city quite differently to us imports. (E.g. They don't primarily identify as Sydneysiders, but instead with the part of Sydney they grew up in/now live in. They are, in many ways, more insular than Perthites)
As for what to do in Sydney next week - catch ferries. Go to the zoo or Luna Park. Catch the lightrail to Sideways in Dulwich Hill for brunch, or the 426, 423 or 428 bus to The Henson in Marrickville for a late arvo drink and dinner (both v. kid friendly). Time out has a kids section, for more ideas. Google maps is really good for working out public transport options.
And organise a meetup when you get here. We're v friendly, but a bit slack at organising things.
posted by kjs4 at 10:12 PM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all so much. That's really helpful!
posted by langtonsant at 12:48 PM on July 11, 2015
posted by langtonsant at 12:48 PM on July 11, 2015
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posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:32 PM on July 7, 2015 [2 favorites]