How can I become attractive to anyone other than straight men?

July 1, 2015 12:48 PM

Basically only ever men show any interest in me, ever. I can go to a party where like 95% of people aren't straight and of course it'll be the two straight guys there that talk to me. Only guys ever message me or respond to my messages on okcupid. Honestly I don't really want anything to do with men, but it's so disheartening I feel like I'll basically have to get into a relationship with a man if I want any kind of companionship at all. I want to know what I should be doing differently like do I need a makeover or change my attitude or what?

I think I'm a great person and a really kind and loving partner but no one else seems to see that. I don't think it's so much that people can't tell whether I'm straight or not but more that there's something in social dynamics which makes me only attractive to men? Does anyone else have any experience with this?

posted by ninjablob to Human Relations (23 answers total)

Do you approach people?
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:52 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

I ask because standing in a corner and waiting to be spoken to is more of a straight girl dating ritual. Unfortunately, with the gay ladies, you're gonna have to face your fear and sidle up to one of them and say hi.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:53 PM on July 1, 2015 [25 favorites]

Also, of course, you can gay up your personal appearance in any number of ways, but we'd need to know how you normally dress first.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:54 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

Only guys ever message me or respond to my messages on okcupid.

I don't have my finger on the pulse of modern online dating, but it seems like there's always a way to specify a preferred gender. Does your profile already say "I'm looking for women," yet only men contact you?
posted by pullayup at 1:02 PM on July 1, 2015 [7 favorites]

I can't answer your general question, but I can answer this:

Only guys ever message me or respond to my messages on okcupid.

You can check a box that says "don't show me to straight people." If you check that you're only interested in women, you shouldn't show up in men's quickmatches (or whatever it's called) at all.
posted by desjardins at 1:02 PM on July 1, 2015 [16 favorites]

I didn't know this (not on OKCupid) but I learned in this thread that you can go invisible to straight people there. Are you? Invisible to straights? And do you message women you're interested in?
posted by rtha at 1:02 PM on July 1, 2015 [4 favorites]

Show interest in people who interest you. If you "don't really want anything to do with men," don't spend time sending them messages. Instead, use that time to message people you might want to meet.

It's also perfectly fine to politely excuse yourself when a straight guy is chatting you up at a party. Onlookers might assume that continued interaction with someone means you're interested in that someone (or that kind of someone).
posted by whoiam at 1:05 PM on July 1, 2015

As for this problem in situations like the party you describe, this isn't necessarily the "fault" of anything you are doing or anything the minority of straight dudes is doing. Men are socialized to be more proactive in these situations, and straight men even more so than that in that they don't have the remnants of internalized closet fear that most (maybe all) gay men do.

And as others said, if you feel that other women are giving/getting attention to each other, it is probably because one of them has gotten over this fear to make that connection. If you don't feel you're giving off the right vibe, it's time to be the one who gets over that fear.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:08 PM on July 1, 2015 [4 favorites]

Usually people on Ask give us way too much information, but I really wish we knew more about you!

I can go to a party where like 95% of people aren't straight

What sort of parties are these? Are you wearing a handmade HELLA QUEER, SINGLE, AND READY TO MINGLE t-shirt while winking slyly at everyone? Have you tried flagging? Have you tried queer events that AREN'T club nights or at gay bars - Autostraddler book clubs and brunch meet-ups, Trans Pride picnics? Do you want to tell us where you live so we can make suggestions for where to find events like that?

Also, it's really really crummy, but there are more straight men than there are genderqueer nonbinary people and queer women. They just outnumber us. It sucks. It sucks being pan or bi and ending up in relationships with men because you got your pick of partners out of three eligible queers and ninety-seven straight dudes. It might not necessarily be something you're doing "wrong," and just numbers.

/genderqueer queer person who has dated way too many straight dudes and not enough of everyone else
posted by Juliet Banana at 1:12 PM on July 1, 2015 [27 favorites]

Everyone else has given great advice above.

I also wanted to add that queer women seem a lot less likely than straight men to strike up a conversation with someone who isn't already at least a little familiar to them. So, maybe try making more queer friends and hanging out in queer spaces and eventually people will feel more comfortable approaching you. (Especially if your gender presentation tends to be read as "straight woman".)
posted by sea change at 1:30 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

Are you wearing a handmade HELLA QUEER, SINGLE, AND READY TO MINGLE t-shirt while winking slyly at everyone?

This. Look at how you phrased your question. You don't use the term gay, lesbian, queer, bi, or even tell us you're female. Sure, these things are implied by what you say, but only implied--are you similarly cagey in social situations?
posted by pupsocket at 1:45 PM on July 1, 2015 [57 favorites]

i'm a queer cis presenting woman who has been in serious relationships and fleeting hookups across the gender spectrum. i agree that if you're waiting for someone to walk up to you, more than likely it's going to be a straight guy. i pretty much did all the approaching in my non--cishet entanglements. also, even if you are bi identifying as that on dating websites when you're only looking for non-male attention is hurting your chances. don't lie to partners because it is important to some people, but there's no reason to lead with it on your profile.
posted by nadawi at 1:50 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

You can't always control who approaches you. You can always control who you approach.

Honestly I don't really want anything to do with men

Then make this SUPER clear. Flag hard. List on-line posting as lesbian (or whatever non-dude dating situation applies).
posted by French Fry at 2:14 PM on July 1, 2015 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: In terms of clothes: I have long blue hair, I normally wear some kind of t-shirt and black trousers and my purple vegan dms. I feel like I should make more 'effort' with my appearance but don't really know how/ don't really want to

I think the thing about men messaging me on okc is a bit of a red herring, I know you can turn off straight people (and that's what I've mostly done) and I have said I wanted to talk to women and non-binary people. It isn't so much being messaged by men that's the issue but that no one else is messaging me or replying to my messages.

Maybe I should be approaching more people I just get the sense I'm not a very attractive prospect
posted by ninjablob at 2:34 PM on July 1, 2015

I have literally never been hit on by a queer person, and I regularly wear extremely explicit shirts for queercore bands like Limp Wrist and Disipline. Things that HAVE worked for me:

-going over to the other shy person at a meetup/event/party and bonding with them over our awkward wallfloweriness

-waiting until a cute girl makes it clear she's queer and making a hammy AREN'T YOU IN LUCK THAT I'M SINGLE THEN joke

-doing anything except just standing there waiting for them to approach me!
posted by Juliet Banana at 2:45 PM on July 1, 2015 [10 favorites]

OK, I'm sure this will rub some sensitive people the wrong way, but it is true, so I will say it: lesbians are super cliquey. Super duper. Of course, I can't claim to be able to describe all lesbians, everywhere, but in my experience with lesbians in the English speaking world, old/young, black/white, they are the cliqueiest of all cliquey people.

So, your best bet is to increase your presence in the local lesbian scene. Volunteer, go to book clubs, go to bars, work in a queer space. Once you are perceived as a member of the in group, you will just have the problems that everyone else does.
posted by girl flaneur at 3:26 PM on July 1, 2015 [6 favorites]

I don't think clothing is necessarily the best way to signal identity or openness to being approached. You don't really need an attitude change, either. What's worked for me is eye contact and smiling at women I'm interest in. It doesn't seem like that's a big deal, but it can feel difficult and awkward, especially if you—or they—are naturally shy. I think what you probably need to do is think of conversation openers and ways to signal your interest.

It's much easier to meet someone by doing things and going places that interest you. You'll both have something in common and conversations will flow much more naturally than online or at parties. Breaking the ice is much easier if you can start off with a simple question like, "What do you think of this artist?" It's less difficult the more often you do it.

Some other things that have worked for me:
If I'm at a party or bar, I usually try to strike up conversations first with women near me (you really never know who you'd be interested in until you've talked to them). If someone is across the room, I smile and wave a little wave and see what happens. If their eyes slide on by, they're not interested. If they smile back, I point at my drink and mouth something like, "can I get you one?" Sometimes they motion me over, sometimes I motion them over.

If you're getting the sense that you're not an attractive prospect, you're wrong. Not everyone will be interested, but those who are will find you very attractive.
posted by Mercy at 3:43 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

OKCupid is not a good measure of much of anything. I know a lot of awesome people who have terrible luck on there, and my experiences have very much been about the size of the city I was living in. Small and even medium sized cities have had very slim pickings for me as a woman looking for women.

For in-person interactions, the issue is partly that straight men are way more numerous than queer women and nonbinary folks, but also that straight men don't have to worry that asking out the wrong person is going to have serious consequences for them. You have to be up for making the first move and not wait for her to do it.
posted by bile and syntax at 3:52 PM on July 1, 2015

I feel like people are taking shots in the dark here because there's so much we don't know. We have no idea of how she presents herself, what she looks like or how she acts or what her OKCupid profile is like, so any advice is going to be based on assumptions that may not be accurate.

I think you should focus less on keeping men away and more on finding and attracting women. (The men may be annoying, but I assume dealing with that annoyance matters less to you than actually meeting somebody you want to be with.) For starters, I'd suggest hitting up any local lesbian bars. Very few straight guys there. Also, you could start wearing a t-shirt with a pro-lesbian message on it. (Some of those in the link are kind of tacky, but they may give you some ideas.) Failing that, you could try an L Word or Tegan and Sara shirt. It may not keep the boys away, but it will at least signal to any girls at these 95% not-straight parties that you are definitely not straight. If your OK Cupid profile features a big picture of you wearing an I Heart Lesbians shirt or a shirt with a Venus symbol on a rainbow background, that's GOT to chase off some of these guys!
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:14 PM on July 1, 2015

As for getting OKC messages back from fellow queers, maybe you can search some previous OKC threads and pick up general advice, both on your profile and in the messages you send. Just a few basic ones:

- don't bring up something about anyone's identity first message - for ex, i know openly trans friends of mine on dating sites are super sick of getting disrespectful questions for first messages. not saying you're doing this, but even if someone has it right in their profile, let them take the lead with bringing it up. bring up something else you have in common as an opener!

-ask a question! don't just say hi or nice profile or whatever, make them have an easy way to respond!

-check what the last time they were active is before you get discouraged that it's all you

-i like to talk about my favorite venues, restaurants, etc a lot both in my profile and in messages, it makes the segue to asking for a date way easier when it turns out that you both love lebanese food and hey did you know a new place just opened up?

Maybe I should be approaching more people I just get the sense I'm not a very attractive prospect

You gotta work on your confidence, too. That is something people pick up on. I've had a lot of luck with CBT techniques where you retrain your brain to replace negative thoughts with positive ones.

Every time you think "I'm not a very attractive prospect," you have to list out all the things that make you amazing and unique and fabulous. Making a physical list has been extremely helpful to me.

Do it every time, and eventually the thought that will pop into your head is "I'm not a very good prospect, except of course I'm patient and a good listener and really passionate about my interests and etc etc" and eventually the message that will pop into your head is "I'm attractive and interesting and datable." Once you're projecting "I'm attractive and interesting and datable" at people, they'll be more quick to notice it themselves.
posted by Juliet Banana at 4:33 PM on July 1, 2015 [5 favorites]

but it will at least signal to any girls at these 95% not-straight parties that you are definitely not straight.

That was poorly-phrased, making it sound like I think straight women could never be into those things or (worse) that all lesbians are into those things. That's sure not what I meant! I should have said something more like, "it will hopefully send a signal to the women at these 95% not-straight parties that you're not straight either." That's also clumsy, but I don't know a clearer way to phrase it.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 9:47 PM on July 1, 2015

Maybe I should be approaching more people I just get the sense I'm not a very attractive prospect

Don't say no for them. Let other people decide what they want. Stop focusing so much on yourself and focus more on the emotional needs of other people. Try to make them feel accepted and warmly welcomed.

That is what I do (just to be polite) and I get hit on by all kinds of people and even gushed at by straight women who suddenly start inserting subtext in the conversation to the effect of "you and me sweating between the sheets" in spite of the fact that most people presume me to be straight and I have no goal of getting with a woman. I strongly prefer the company of a man in bed.

And I am incredibly insecure about a long list of things. If I think about it from my side, all I can imagine is how wrong everything will go and how hurt I will be. But when I focus on putting other people at ease, lots of them quickly imply they would happily sleep with me (or outright hit on me).
posted by Michele in California at 11:10 AM on July 2, 2015

Don't say no for them. Let other people decide what they want. Stop focusing so much on yourself and focus more on the emotional needs of other people. Try to make them feel accepted and warmly welcomed.

I feel like I wasn't real clear about what I meant here: I am saying it sounds like you aren't even talking with people and you need to first and foremost talk with people just to make a social connection and while doing so focus on putting them at ease, not on whether or not they find you attractive. Your comments indicate that you do not actually know why you aren't seeing action -- you ASSUME you aren't all that attractive. It isn't that people are telling you specifically that X, Y or Z thing is a turn off. So it sounds to me like you are failing to make the most elementary social connection and that should be your first goal.

And as someone who seems to be hyper-social in some sense, the thing I typically focus on is just making people feel accepted and respected and that kind of thing. The result is that, in spite of my age, grey hair, and bajillion other personal shortcomings, I am routinely inundated by people inquiring if I am available...yadda yadda.

So don't just assume people do not find you attractive. You don't know what is going through their head. You aren't even connecting at all. Just try to connect socially, give them the opportunity to decide for themselves if you are their cup of tea and focus on putting them at ease. During my divorce, I routinely asked people what they found attractive about me and everyone had a different answer. No two people seemed to say the same thing. I was also popular in spite of being very plump, which flew in the face of everything I had ever learned from judgey rejecting people around me about how critical it was for me to be thin. I no longer presume that I know what other people want or why they would be attracted to me. I let them decide if they are attracted and if I feel attracted to them as well I might try to find out what it is about me they actually like.

It sounds like you just need to find a way to make that initial connection -- that social connection. It sounds like that piece isn't even happening. On the upside, if you are shy, it can be more comfortable to focus on the other person and what they want/need than to talk about yourself.
posted by Michele in California at 1:32 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]