How can I respectfully make out with pretty ladies?
June 18, 2015 12:30 PM Subscribe
I have a boyfriend who I am very happy with. However, I would like to smooch some random pretty ladies, and random pretty ladies seem interested in smooching me. How can I go about this in a way that's best for everybody involved?
My boyfriend is going to be out of town this summer, and I've got an amazing summer haircut that's been getting me a good amount of attention from other women (women hitting on me at bars, coming up and kissing me at karaoke). My boyfriend knows that I think pretty ladies are pretty, and during a recent conversation, I asked if he'd be okay with me making out with women while he was gone, and he said it would be okay as long as I told him after it happened.
Why now? It sounds fun, and sexy, and it's something I've probably always wanted to do but never really got a chance to during my single times. I love my boyfriend and have absolutely no intentions of leaving him for somebody else, but this would add some excitement to my summer.
My big concern is that I'm being a big exploitative jerk. If other women want to make out with me at bars, should I offer up a prior disclaimer that I have a boyfriend and am only doing this for temporary entertainment purposes, or can that wait until somebody actually seems interested in something more than drunken bar smooching? I mean, single people make out with each other randomly all the time, right? What are my specific responsibilities in this situation?
My boyfriend is going to be out of town this summer, and I've got an amazing summer haircut that's been getting me a good amount of attention from other women (women hitting on me at bars, coming up and kissing me at karaoke). My boyfriend knows that I think pretty ladies are pretty, and during a recent conversation, I asked if he'd be okay with me making out with women while he was gone, and he said it would be okay as long as I told him after it happened.
Why now? It sounds fun, and sexy, and it's something I've probably always wanted to do but never really got a chance to during my single times. I love my boyfriend and have absolutely no intentions of leaving him for somebody else, but this would add some excitement to my summer.
My big concern is that I'm being a big exploitative jerk. If other women want to make out with me at bars, should I offer up a prior disclaimer that I have a boyfriend and am only doing this for temporary entertainment purposes, or can that wait until somebody actually seems interested in something more than drunken bar smooching? I mean, single people make out with each other randomly all the time, right? What are my specific responsibilities in this situation?
Being aware of the feeling of others is important, and I think it's great you're thinking about it. If you're chatting with someone, and it seems like they might be looking for a dating/relationship situation, you should mention that you're in a relationship. I think there are ways you can be upfront and honest about your limitations without totally killing the flirty moment. Good luck!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:48 PM on June 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:48 PM on June 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
I don't think it's a problem to kiss people you want to kiss and who want to be kissed by you and it's certainly not a binding contract that you'll date and/or be available for more than kissing. Don't pretend to be single and available for more to get kisses and you're fine.
The risky part of this in my mind is what it will do to your current relationship. Sure, boyfriend says fine now. But, unless you've both successfully navigated opening a relationship before, I'd take that with a giant grain of salt. You'll be apart (already a big stressor for a relationship) and you'll be having physical encounters with other people. Don't be surprised when his reaction isn't wonderful when you start sharing that you've taken him up on his approval of kissing others. Also, does he have your approval to kiss others for the summer? Seems only fair, though you may not be thinking about what that will feel like right now. This could easily become a very complicated mess instead of summery fun.
posted by quince at 12:50 PM on June 18, 2015 [19 favorites]
The risky part of this in my mind is what it will do to your current relationship. Sure, boyfriend says fine now. But, unless you've both successfully navigated opening a relationship before, I'd take that with a giant grain of salt. You'll be apart (already a big stressor for a relationship) and you'll be having physical encounters with other people. Don't be surprised when his reaction isn't wonderful when you start sharing that you've taken him up on his approval of kissing others. Also, does he have your approval to kiss others for the summer? Seems only fair, though you may not be thinking about what that will feel like right now. This could easily become a very complicated mess instead of summery fun.
posted by quince at 12:50 PM on June 18, 2015 [19 favorites]
I think if you ask yourself, in the context of your relationship, whether it would bother you if your boyfriend wanted to kiss other men (or other women) while he was away. If it would, I think you have your answer.
posted by teg4rvn at 12:52 PM on June 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by teg4rvn at 12:52 PM on June 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
Agree that you have no responsibility to make a disclaimer to the person you're making out with. The one thing I might note here is that you might want to consider the possibility that even putting aside what the other women want, you might possibly want things to go to the next level after you've been getting hot and heavy at a bar for a little while. So you might want to bring that up with your boyfriend in advance, e.g., will it be ok with him if you go home with a pretty lady that you met in a bar, as long as things don't go any further than that? Because it could very well happen.
posted by holborne at 12:58 PM on June 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by holborne at 12:58 PM on June 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
whether it would bother you if your boyfriend wanted to kiss other men (or other women) while he was away
Nothing says these things have to be symmetric. In many cases (from what I gather reading Dan Savage, e.g.), the asymmetry is the point of the whole thing. I think this is a false comparison, and beside the point, no matter how you would feel, OP.
posted by supercres at 1:00 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Nothing says these things have to be symmetric. In many cases (from what I gather reading Dan Savage, e.g.), the asymmetry is the point of the whole thing. I think this is a false comparison, and beside the point, no matter how you would feel, OP.
posted by supercres at 1:00 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: "People who get all pouty when it's just making out are babies." this is really a gross and belittling simplification of what happens when women in committed relationships with cis males choose to experiment with queer women in a carefree / experimental way.
there are serious power dynamics at play here, and it sounds like you are trying to be mindful of them, which is great! we live in an era where couples are celebrated, and single people... well, we're getting there, but not so much celebrated. also, straight privilege is still very much a thing, which hopefully goes without saying.
so, as a privileged person who seems to want to make sure they're not being exploitative -- i wonder if random bar hookups maybe aren't the best for you. sure, lots of folks just want to make out, but will the anxiety about how your carefree actions might emotionally impact someone else kill the sexy fun times? only you know for sure. but if the answer is yes, maybe meeting people through a website or app specifically designed for this kinda stuff would make it less stressful. or ask someone out, and have a chat about it!
fwiw, queer woman here who has mixed feelings about this. sometimes i am / have been fine with this set-up, other times it makes me feel really hurt and icky. when in doubt -- use your words, give people the info they need to decide for themselves if they consent.
posted by crawfo at 1:02 PM on June 18, 2015 [54 favorites]
there are serious power dynamics at play here, and it sounds like you are trying to be mindful of them, which is great! we live in an era where couples are celebrated, and single people... well, we're getting there, but not so much celebrated. also, straight privilege is still very much a thing, which hopefully goes without saying.
so, as a privileged person who seems to want to make sure they're not being exploitative -- i wonder if random bar hookups maybe aren't the best for you. sure, lots of folks just want to make out, but will the anxiety about how your carefree actions might emotionally impact someone else kill the sexy fun times? only you know for sure. but if the answer is yes, maybe meeting people through a website or app specifically designed for this kinda stuff would make it less stressful. or ask someone out, and have a chat about it!
fwiw, queer woman here who has mixed feelings about this. sometimes i am / have been fine with this set-up, other times it makes me feel really hurt and icky. when in doubt -- use your words, give people the info they need to decide for themselves if they consent.
posted by crawfo at 1:02 PM on June 18, 2015 [54 favorites]
If others are initiating, come up with some really short, nice ways of conveying "Yes" that also signal "I am up for good clean fun and a kiss is not a contract." Do not mention the BF at that stage. Mentioning the BF will tend to signal that this is a big deal and we are Having A Relationship. Casual acquaintances don't need to know you have a BF. Casual kissing acquaintances don't need to know that either.
If you are going to initiate, I dunno -- that might be more complicated. But if others initiate, just come up with some stock "yes" answers that will help make it clear you are agreeing only to no strings attached making out and they shouldn't expect more than that. But don't be shocked either when stating that up front doesn't always succeed in keeping things drama-free and uncomplicated. I will 2nd that random bar hookups might not be the optimal way to pursue this.
posted by Michele in California at 1:06 PM on June 18, 2015
If you are going to initiate, I dunno -- that might be more complicated. But if others initiate, just come up with some stock "yes" answers that will help make it clear you are agreeing only to no strings attached making out and they shouldn't expect more than that. But don't be shocked either when stating that up front doesn't always succeed in keeping things drama-free and uncomplicated. I will 2nd that random bar hookups might not be the optimal way to pursue this.
posted by Michele in California at 1:06 PM on June 18, 2015
I think you need to find a way to signal "This is no strings attached!" (and possibly also "I am straight or bi!" - whichever is accurate)
I say this as someone who has been on the other side of this -- random drunk bar kissing with a cute woman, who then proceeded to exchage numbers with me, set up a lunch "date" (or so I thought), and then show up to said "date" talking all about her great boyfriend. Ugh. It felt really gross and I definitely felt used. (Note: Not because she "owed" me anything, but because it felt deceptive.) Absolutely it would have been better if she had not proceeded to exchange numbers and meet up with me! But I think in any case I would have liked that info pre-kissing. Honestly, I would probably have still made out with her! But I would have gotten to make that decision instead of her making it for me.
I think it also depends a bit on context. If these encounters are literally kissing with almost no conversation (which, I will grant you, absolutely does happen, especially at dance clubs), I think little to no explanation is okay -- just don't give out your number or otherwise signal romantic interest. If you're having, like, an ongoing conversation with someone while sipping drinks at a bar, and then things move toward make-out territory, I would say something to the effect of "You're really cute but I'm not looking for anything serious," and don't intentionally hide your boyfriend when having a conversation.
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:32 PM on June 18, 2015 [10 favorites]
I say this as someone who has been on the other side of this -- random drunk bar kissing with a cute woman, who then proceeded to exchage numbers with me, set up a lunch "date" (or so I thought), and then show up to said "date" talking all about her great boyfriend. Ugh. It felt really gross and I definitely felt used. (Note: Not because she "owed" me anything, but because it felt deceptive.) Absolutely it would have been better if she had not proceeded to exchange numbers and meet up with me! But I think in any case I would have liked that info pre-kissing. Honestly, I would probably have still made out with her! But I would have gotten to make that decision instead of her making it for me.
I think it also depends a bit on context. If these encounters are literally kissing with almost no conversation (which, I will grant you, absolutely does happen, especially at dance clubs), I think little to no explanation is okay -- just don't give out your number or otherwise signal romantic interest. If you're having, like, an ongoing conversation with someone while sipping drinks at a bar, and then things move toward make-out territory, I would say something to the effect of "You're really cute but I'm not looking for anything serious," and don't intentionally hide your boyfriend when having a conversation.
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:32 PM on June 18, 2015 [10 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted - folks, OP is not asking whether it's a good idea vis-a-vis her boyfriend's feelings. She's asking about the kiss-ees.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:44 PM on June 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:44 PM on June 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: My boyfriend is not interested in making out with other dudes, and no, I would not be okay with him making out with other ladies (he has not expressed interest in that, either). However, he'll be in full-blown student/research mode while he's away, so sexy things will just not be as high on his priority list as they are on mine.
fwiw, queer woman here who has mixed feelings about this. sometimes i am / have been fine with this set-up, other times it makes me feel really hurt and icky. when in doubt -- use your words, give people the info they need to decide for themselves if they consent.
This is my biggest concern, and what I want to work at navigating properly. Pre-kissing, would it be ridiculous to lead with "I have a boyfriend, but this is something I've always wanted to do..." or is that just something people say in awful porno movies and is in no way appealing to people in the real world because it makes them feel like an interchangeable object for somebody else's whims?
Random bar makeouts are still on the top of my list, because part of the appeal for me is escalating the slight attractions people can share when they cross paths. Going online feels almost too cut-and-dried, and I don't want to have to reject people and deal with all that stuff. I'd prefer that this be incorporated into my pre-existing summer plans as an exciting possibility, rather than something that I have to make happen.
The one thing I might note here is that you might want to consider the possibility that even putting aside what the other women want, you might possibly want things to go to the next level after you've been getting hot and heavy at a bar for a little while.
Yeah, that's something I should be more specific about before it happens. I'm a bit of a slippery sloper when it comes to makeouts, so those lines will need to be drawn more clearly for myself and my boyfriend.
posted by brisquette at 1:45 PM on June 18, 2015
fwiw, queer woman here who has mixed feelings about this. sometimes i am / have been fine with this set-up, other times it makes me feel really hurt and icky. when in doubt -- use your words, give people the info they need to decide for themselves if they consent.
This is my biggest concern, and what I want to work at navigating properly. Pre-kissing, would it be ridiculous to lead with "I have a boyfriend, but this is something I've always wanted to do..." or is that just something people say in awful porno movies and is in no way appealing to people in the real world because it makes them feel like an interchangeable object for somebody else's whims?
Random bar makeouts are still on the top of my list, because part of the appeal for me is escalating the slight attractions people can share when they cross paths. Going online feels almost too cut-and-dried, and I don't want to have to reject people and deal with all that stuff. I'd prefer that this be incorporated into my pre-existing summer plans as an exciting possibility, rather than something that I have to make happen.
The one thing I might note here is that you might want to consider the possibility that even putting aside what the other women want, you might possibly want things to go to the next level after you've been getting hot and heavy at a bar for a little while.
Yeah, that's something I should be more specific about before it happens. I'm a bit of a slippery sloper when it comes to makeouts, so those lines will need to be drawn more clearly for myself and my boyfriend.
posted by brisquette at 1:45 PM on June 18, 2015
I would be grossed out by someone who did this, sorry. It's not so much that a kiss is a contract, but that I would feel you were acting in bad faith. There are people out there who wouldn't want to kiss someone who's in a relationship. The gender of these people shouldn't be relevant. Why do you want to kiss women outside your relationship but not men?
posted by Violet Hour at 1:59 PM on June 18, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Violet Hour at 1:59 PM on June 18, 2015 [13 favorites]
Has anyone who has come up and kissed you at karaoke tried to suggest that they want more out of it than just kisses? If not, it sounds like you're fine to keep on keepin' on in that situation and similar ones. fyi, as a competitive karaoke-er I can attest that I see a lot of random NSA makeouts happening.
posted by capricorn at 2:03 PM on June 18, 2015
posted by capricorn at 2:03 PM on June 18, 2015
Were I a prospective kiss-ee, I would want to know that you're in a relationship already, even if it's open (or however you're describing it). I think it's only fair to give people the relevant information so they can make an informed decision.
I would not have a problem kissing someone who was in an open relationship. I would definitely have a problem with that person if I found out later that they'd withheld relevant information.
posted by Solomon at 2:12 PM on June 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would not have a problem kissing someone who was in an open relationship. I would definitely have a problem with that person if I found out later that they'd withheld relevant information.
posted by Solomon at 2:12 PM on June 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think crawfo has a really good point here; there's the question of making out with someone in an open relationship, and there's the separate issue of feeling like you're someone's experimental phase. Be upfront about your relationship and your intention to just have fun, but de-emphasize the novelty part of it; otherwise you'll come across like that irritating Katy Perry song.
It depends on your social circle, of course, but do you have any platonic friends who might be interested in the same thing? It can be less awkward than trying to explain your situation to a stranger.
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:47 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
It depends on your social circle, of course, but do you have any platonic friends who might be interested in the same thing? It can be less awkward than trying to explain your situation to a stranger.
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:47 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Making out with people is absolutely leading them on and someone not knowing that you're not available and not even interested in having a relationship with their gender is not cool (so kudos for you for trying to be fair). Many bi/gay people are not interested in being a straight person's novelty experiment with the same gender. Many are not interested in making out with someone that's in a relationship and not available for more.
You will find that there are quite a few that are fine with both so keep the information about what's going on symmetrical.
posted by Candleman at 2:52 PM on June 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
You will find that there are quite a few that are fine with both so keep the information about what's going on symmetrical.
posted by Candleman at 2:52 PM on June 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
How about something like, "Ya know, I totally have a boyfriend, but I just wanna kiss you, it just can't lead to more. He's totally OK with it."
posted by teg4rvn at 2:58 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by teg4rvn at 2:58 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: In my experience (of being a queer lady who sometimes hooks up with women while also dating a man), I think your desire can be totally doable, and I agree with folks that say communication is key. I have found that it is actually pretty easy in a night of flirting to both casually drop a reference to a boyfriend and reiterate queer interest and relationship openness/flexibility. Honestly, I have found that people often ask, and it really isn't hard to clarify the terms you have worked out with your partner. It also doesn't have to be a Somber conversation (and it gets easier with practice).
Obviously there is a risk that that information will turn some people off. That is a Good Thing, and will help protect you from being exploitative, and ensure consent all around.
Also, I feel like some people in this thread are maybe making unwarranted assumptions about the sexual orientation of the poster, who explicitly did not say that she was straight
posted by likeatoaster at 3:05 PM on June 18, 2015 [11 favorites]
Obviously there is a risk that that information will turn some people off. That is a Good Thing, and will help protect you from being exploitative, and ensure consent all around.
Also, I feel like some people in this thread are maybe making unwarranted assumptions about the sexual orientation of the poster, who explicitly did not say that she was straight
posted by likeatoaster at 3:05 PM on June 18, 2015 [11 favorites]
Best answer: Another queer woman with somewhat mixed feelings here. Personally I think that if you are just making out with someone at a bar, well, you are just making out with someone at a bar and that is all. It's a discrete event and doesn't imply any kind of attachment or further relationship. But if it looks like something might evolve beyond the one-time, casual make-out phase you have an obligation to be open about your relationship status and what you're looking for. Plenty of people are okay with open relationships and casual arrangements (self included) but they should be able to decide that for themselves.
There have been times in my life when the idea of being a more-or-less straight person's experimental paramour really did not sit well with me. It can be perceived as exploitative and also as devaluing the other person's needs and feelings. My attraction to women is not casual, you know? I'm not so against the idea now myself (again, as long as everyone is being honest) but you shouldn't be surprised if some LBQ-identified women are actively and vocally disinclined to what you're looking for.
posted by 4rtemis at 3:14 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
There have been times in my life when the idea of being a more-or-less straight person's experimental paramour really did not sit well with me. It can be perceived as exploitative and also as devaluing the other person's needs and feelings. My attraction to women is not casual, you know? I'm not so against the idea now myself (again, as long as everyone is being honest) but you shouldn't be surprised if some LBQ-identified women are actively and vocally disinclined to what you're looking for.
posted by 4rtemis at 3:14 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I am a lesbian, but IANYL:
I think it's fine if you want to make out with however if it's in the bounds of your relationship agreement. If someone was to make out with me in a bar, I would consider it to be nothing more than that. Yes, there is a phenomenon of otherwise straight ladies making out with queer women that is kind of annoying, and yes, straight ladies sometimes make out with each other, and yes, some queer ladies are queer but just want to make out. That all exists, but we're all adults and if you're honest, kind and respectful, then my opinion is, go for it. Personally, I know to stay away from making out straight ladies, and I'm not bothered by what other people do.
posted by latkes at 3:24 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think it's fine if you want to make out with however if it's in the bounds of your relationship agreement. If someone was to make out with me in a bar, I would consider it to be nothing more than that. Yes, there is a phenomenon of otherwise straight ladies making out with queer women that is kind of annoying, and yes, straight ladies sometimes make out with each other, and yes, some queer ladies are queer but just want to make out. That all exists, but we're all adults and if you're honest, kind and respectful, then my opinion is, go for it. Personally, I know to stay away from making out straight ladies, and I'm not bothered by what other people do.
posted by latkes at 3:24 PM on June 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is my biggest concern, and what I want to work at navigating properly. Pre-kissing, would it be ridiculous to lead with "I have a boyfriend, but this is something I've always wanted to do..." or is that just something people say in awful porno movies and is in no way appealing to people in the real world because it makes them feel like an interchangeable object for somebody else's whims?
It might be ridiculous, but it's the right thing to do.
Again, I am a lesbian but IANYL, but I would want to know this about you, including the fact that you had a straight boyfriend who wouldn't be cool with you doing the same with dudes, before making out with you, and I would be annoyed and kind of angry if I found out about that after the fact; not because I'd feel "cheated" of a potential relationship or "owed" or anything, but because of homophobe cooties. Whatever agreement and level of comfort with his views you have with your boyfriend is your business, and it's no skin off my back at all if you happen to find other queer women who aren't bothered by it, I've always found that kind of general setup incredibly homophobic and misogynist, and I just would not want to do anything with anyone who was down with it. It's a stance that's actually gotten me into trouble with my poly friends, back when my social circle was a lot less queer than it is now.
That's all regardless of whether I meet a potential makeout partner as total strangers in a bar or other ladyqueer-ish social space where makeouts might happen, or if someone, even someone I was previously checking out, was pointed out to me by a friend as "oh, that girl with the cute [visual identifier?] yeah, that's Alice, she's bi but her boyfriend Bob is straight, she's allowed to experiment with women"; I'd nope the hell out of getting to know Alice any better than as a completely casual acquaintance.
Here's the thing: on balance, your own potential discomfort with seeming neurotic or unsuave if you're just straight forward and honest could be providing you cover for being deceptive and manipulative. You have to know that a reaction like mine or latke's, basically "thanks but you're too straight for me" is a possibility, that's why you're asking this question. There's nothing wrong with making out with other women as a woman in a straight relationship, but there's also nothing wrong with saying "no thanks" to that option as a queer woman. If you're denying people the possibility of saying no, that's unethical and jerky.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 4:06 PM on June 18, 2015 [19 favorites]
It might be ridiculous, but it's the right thing to do.
Again, I am a lesbian but IANYL, but I would want to know this about you, including the fact that you had a straight boyfriend who wouldn't be cool with you doing the same with dudes, before making out with you, and I would be annoyed and kind of angry if I found out about that after the fact; not because I'd feel "cheated" of a potential relationship or "owed" or anything, but because of homophobe cooties. Whatever agreement and level of comfort with his views you have with your boyfriend is your business, and it's no skin off my back at all if you happen to find other queer women who aren't bothered by it, I've always found that kind of general setup incredibly homophobic and misogynist, and I just would not want to do anything with anyone who was down with it. It's a stance that's actually gotten me into trouble with my poly friends, back when my social circle was a lot less queer than it is now.
That's all regardless of whether I meet a potential makeout partner as total strangers in a bar or other ladyqueer-ish social space where makeouts might happen, or if someone, even someone I was previously checking out, was pointed out to me by a friend as "oh, that girl with the cute [visual identifier?] yeah, that's Alice, she's bi but her boyfriend Bob is straight, she's allowed to experiment with women"; I'd nope the hell out of getting to know Alice any better than as a completely casual acquaintance.
Here's the thing: on balance, your own potential discomfort with seeming neurotic or unsuave if you're just straight forward and honest could be providing you cover for being deceptive and manipulative. You have to know that a reaction like mine or latke's, basically "thanks but you're too straight for me" is a possibility, that's why you're asking this question. There's nothing wrong with making out with other women as a woman in a straight relationship, but there's also nothing wrong with saying "no thanks" to that option as a queer woman. If you're denying people the possibility of saying no, that's unethical and jerky.
posted by The Master and Margarita Mix at 4:06 PM on June 18, 2015 [19 favorites]
Best answer: As a queer lady.. I think as long as people know what's up before the making out happens, you're golden. But even if that isn't the case, on the "awful person" scale of 1-10, this is like a 0.5. It's far, far closer to the "faux pas" end of the spectrum than any sort of real issue. The worst that's going to happen is you're going to annoy somebody.
posted by zug at 4:39 PM on June 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by zug at 4:39 PM on June 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
FWIW, I kind of think if someone is doing random make-outs with people they barely know, they should expect to not have all the facts.
I engaged in a certain amount of random hookup type behavior during my divorce. This is not my normal behavior. I am normally pretty socially conservative and picky and I want commitment and exclusivity and to know a lot about a person before I get physically intimate with them. During my divorce, when I was in limbo and not capable of committing, I rolled very differently from my default behavior. And random hookups didn't really need all the particulars, though I also never intentionally deceived anyone. If they asked or if it came up, I either told the truth or walked away if I didn't wish to disclose that much.
So I kind of feel anyone who is going to be crazy picky about this for any reason is being hypocritical and unrealistic if they want some kind of full disclosure random make out session. Full disclosure takes a lot of time. You do need to not outright lie or intentionally and willfully deceive people. But random make out sessions simply are not conducive to getting all these details. They just aren't. If you want that level of detail going in, that is more a polyamory scenario, not a casual kissing thing.
Again: Assume that some folks will wind up being drama anyway. There is no shortage of people in the world with unrealistic expectations. You will very likely at some point kiss someone who later gets all het up about you having a bf or whatever. If you really want to entirely avoid that, then don't have tipsy makeouts with strangers at bars. But, also, if you do pursue this, I think it is okay to tell someone who is all het up about it that, you know, it was a drunken kissing session with a stranger and they are applying an unrealistic standard, given the particulars.
Don't give anyone herpes. Don't get anyone beat up. Do your best to communicate beforehand that it is no strings attached. Accept that stating that up front will not 100% prevent awkward misunderstandings and what not. I did lots of things during my divorce I am unlikely to repeat. As long as you don't get AIDS or get someone killed, you learn as you go how best to communicate and which types of people to just say No to because you can tell they are drama and not worth it.
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 5:20 PM on June 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I engaged in a certain amount of random hookup type behavior during my divorce. This is not my normal behavior. I am normally pretty socially conservative and picky and I want commitment and exclusivity and to know a lot about a person before I get physically intimate with them. During my divorce, when I was in limbo and not capable of committing, I rolled very differently from my default behavior. And random hookups didn't really need all the particulars, though I also never intentionally deceived anyone. If they asked or if it came up, I either told the truth or walked away if I didn't wish to disclose that much.
So I kind of feel anyone who is going to be crazy picky about this for any reason is being hypocritical and unrealistic if they want some kind of full disclosure random make out session. Full disclosure takes a lot of time. You do need to not outright lie or intentionally and willfully deceive people. But random make out sessions simply are not conducive to getting all these details. They just aren't. If you want that level of detail going in, that is more a polyamory scenario, not a casual kissing thing.
Again: Assume that some folks will wind up being drama anyway. There is no shortage of people in the world with unrealistic expectations. You will very likely at some point kiss someone who later gets all het up about you having a bf or whatever. If you really want to entirely avoid that, then don't have tipsy makeouts with strangers at bars. But, also, if you do pursue this, I think it is okay to tell someone who is all het up about it that, you know, it was a drunken kissing session with a stranger and they are applying an unrealistic standard, given the particulars.
Don't give anyone herpes. Don't get anyone beat up. Do your best to communicate beforehand that it is no strings attached. Accept that stating that up front will not 100% prevent awkward misunderstandings and what not. I did lots of things during my divorce I am unlikely to repeat. As long as you don't get AIDS or get someone killed, you learn as you go how best to communicate and which types of people to just say No to because you can tell they are drama and not worth it.
Best of luck.
posted by Michele in California at 5:20 PM on June 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I kind of think if someone is doing random make-outs with people they barely know, they should expect to not have all the facts.
Gotta agree with this. I think it would kill the mood if you said the whole "boyfriend-but-always-wanted-to...." thing. This might be a completely stupid idea, but what about wearing a ring, like an engagement ring or a claddagh ring or something? I feel like it's the best way our society has to visually indicate that you're in a relationship, and it provides enough information about the situation for the smoochee to know what the deal is.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:50 PM on June 18, 2015
Gotta agree with this. I think it would kill the mood if you said the whole "boyfriend-but-always-wanted-to...." thing. This might be a completely stupid idea, but what about wearing a ring, like an engagement ring or a claddagh ring or something? I feel like it's the best way our society has to visually indicate that you're in a relationship, and it provides enough information about the situation for the smoochee to know what the deal is.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:50 PM on June 18, 2015
I'm a straight guy so take all my thoughts from that perspective. While others have indicated that people in a bar can't expect kisses to lead to more, I think it's a slightly uncomfortable idea to go out with that intention in mind (especially with all the weird gender/sexuality politics wrapped up in your behaviour, I mean it's absolutely you're relationship and you're feelings, but it feels very uncomfortable to me). I think it'd be fair to let people know what was going on, even if that reduced your make out potential.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:27 AM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:27 AM on June 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As a queer woman, I am not here to be fun! and sexy! and exciting! for you. I am a real entire person, not a "pretty lady" to be used for "temporary entertainment purposes."
Random people of all sexual orientations make out all the time, but there's a whole lot of power dynamics and privilege inherent in what you're asking for. (And that's not even touching on the whole "I-can-kiss-them-but-you-can't-kiss-anyone aspect of your "deal," or the "slippery slope" you reference, which sounds like "I'll probably end up sleeping with someone, oops.")
Congratulations on your dykey haircut, but please stay out of queer spaces unless you're planning on engaging with queer women as people, not as titillating taboos or something to check off your list.
posted by harperpitt at 8:00 AM on June 19, 2015 [14 favorites]
Random people of all sexual orientations make out all the time, but there's a whole lot of power dynamics and privilege inherent in what you're asking for. (And that's not even touching on the whole "I-can-kiss-them-but-you-can't-kiss-anyone aspect of your "deal," or the "slippery slope" you reference, which sounds like "I'll probably end up sleeping with someone, oops.")
Congratulations on your dykey haircut, but please stay out of queer spaces unless you're planning on engaging with queer women as people, not as titillating taboos or something to check off your list.
posted by harperpitt at 8:00 AM on June 19, 2015 [14 favorites]
It's a random bar makeout. Don't lie, but if they only want to make out with people who aren't in relationships, isn't that on them?
That said, do examine why it's OK for you to make out with women but not men. Do examine why you feel OK doing this, but not allowing the same of your boyfriend. Especially since he's going to be so busy, the odds are much lower that the occasion might strike for him, right?
And definitely be honest with yourself and your boyfriend with regard to the "slippery slope" aspect you mentioned. If you're consciously or unconsciously using this permission as an entry point to make a mistake and go farther with another person than you intended to go, stop right there. Don't engage in makeouts until you know you can draw the line and respect it.
As far as respecting people? Yeah, respect them for being people. But at the same time, it's random silly hookups at the bar. You're going to be meeting other people who are looking for random silly hookups. Just be honest with what you want, and don't fetishize them.
posted by explosion at 8:19 AM on June 19, 2015
That said, do examine why it's OK for you to make out with women but not men. Do examine why you feel OK doing this, but not allowing the same of your boyfriend. Especially since he's going to be so busy, the odds are much lower that the occasion might strike for him, right?
And definitely be honest with yourself and your boyfriend with regard to the "slippery slope" aspect you mentioned. If you're consciously or unconsciously using this permission as an entry point to make a mistake and go farther with another person than you intended to go, stop right there. Don't engage in makeouts until you know you can draw the line and respect it.
As far as respecting people? Yeah, respect them for being people. But at the same time, it's random silly hookups at the bar. You're going to be meeting other people who are looking for random silly hookups. Just be honest with what you want, and don't fetishize them.
posted by explosion at 8:19 AM on June 19, 2015
if they only want to make out with people who aren't in relationships, isn't that on them?
It feels a little strange to be an old fuddy-duddy in this conversation as a long time polyamorous person who's made out with a lot of strangers. What's being suggested is a form of an open relationship, and open relationship mean open communication not just with one's partner but the other potential new people. I shouldn't have to ask someone that wants to make out with me if they're in a relationship anymore than I should have to question them on whether they have tuberculosis.
Some people go to gay bars to have fun and make out with random strangers but some people go because it's the place in town where you're not likely to be humiliatingly rejected as being the wrong gender and/or beaten for making an approach on someone. If someone's looking for something that could lead to more, either later that night or in the form of a relationship, it's rude to waste their time and play with their emotions. Making out is foreplay, it's not just flirtatious banter. I'm just saying make sure everyone knows which game is being played and what all the rules are.
posted by Candleman at 8:43 AM on June 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
It feels a little strange to be an old fuddy-duddy in this conversation as a long time polyamorous person who's made out with a lot of strangers. What's being suggested is a form of an open relationship, and open relationship mean open communication not just with one's partner but the other potential new people. I shouldn't have to ask someone that wants to make out with me if they're in a relationship anymore than I should have to question them on whether they have tuberculosis.
Some people go to gay bars to have fun and make out with random strangers but some people go because it's the place in town where you're not likely to be humiliatingly rejected as being the wrong gender and/or beaten for making an approach on someone. If someone's looking for something that could lead to more, either later that night or in the form of a relationship, it's rude to waste their time and play with their emotions. Making out is foreplay, it's not just flirtatious banter. I'm just saying make sure everyone knows which game is being played and what all the rules are.
posted by Candleman at 8:43 AM on June 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses, everybody! I definitely don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but it sounds like there's a real potential for that, so I'll make sure to be verbally clear about my situation before things happen, with the awareness that some people may totally choose not to engage any further and that's totally okay.
I'd like to be very clear that I have no intentions of deliberately entering queer spaces for this, and never considered that as an option.
I'm sorry if my intentions mimic a common double standard for this type of thing. I've been in a relationship with a dude for 4+ years; making out with dudes who aren't him is just not interesting to me, and women feel like a different situation. I know that shows that I'm not at a place where I'm viewing people beyond their gender expression, if I still view the concept of making out with women as a different action than making out with men and I'm compartmentalizing it accordingly, but it is kind of different, right? Sure, lips are lips, but as far as our culture and society goes, there are still different dynamics involved. It's something I've thought about and I'm still trying to figure out, but for right now, I'm really just trying to make sure that I approach these hypothethetical random bar makeouts in the best way possible.
posted by brisquette at 9:53 AM on June 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd like to be very clear that I have no intentions of deliberately entering queer spaces for this, and never considered that as an option.
I'm sorry if my intentions mimic a common double standard for this type of thing. I've been in a relationship with a dude for 4+ years; making out with dudes who aren't him is just not interesting to me, and women feel like a different situation. I know that shows that I'm not at a place where I'm viewing people beyond their gender expression, if I still view the concept of making out with women as a different action than making out with men and I'm compartmentalizing it accordingly, but it is kind of different, right? Sure, lips are lips, but as far as our culture and society goes, there are still different dynamics involved. It's something I've thought about and I'm still trying to figure out, but for right now, I'm really just trying to make sure that I approach these hypothethetical random bar makeouts in the best way possible.
posted by brisquette at 9:53 AM on June 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm just saying make sure everyone knows which game is being played and what all the rules are.
I agree with this. I am just saying that full disclosure is usually called courtship and can take weeks, months or even years. If you don't have experience with casual hookups, you may be inclined to want to give them the verbal equivalent of a 12 page contract detailing everything ahead of time. But you don't need to do that and trying to do it will not only be a mood killer, it will make a lot of people feel dumped on and they will walk away because they don't want to be your free therapist.
You need to focus on good communication, but accept that, among other things, there is a slippery slope in such situations, so just because everyone was clear and upfront going in, that doesn't guarantee that it won't get complicated. You can both agree up front that it is just a no strings attached thing and then both feel differently after you actually lock lips. Or one of you can feel differently. Or there can be a misunderstanding ...and so on.
So stick with being honest and not intentionally deceiving people and be okay with the fact that some of these folks simply aren't going to get the whole spiel about you having a bf and blah blah blah and that it isn't necessarily some kind of problem that it wasn't explicitly discussed. If they don't ask, you aren't obligated to buttonhole them and ensure that they know up front. Some folks will really be fine with you only focusing on the relevant information wrt do you or don't you want to kiss them right here, right now? Those folks who want more info will be inclined to seek it. If they aren't seeking it, you aren't an immoral piece of crap for failing to bring it up.
Random hookups happen with a lot less disclosure beforehand. That is just reality. If there is no intentional deception involved and no callous disregard for their welfare, you are okay, morally speaking. (IMO, obviously).
posted by Michele in California at 10:15 AM on June 20, 2015
I agree with this. I am just saying that full disclosure is usually called courtship and can take weeks, months or even years. If you don't have experience with casual hookups, you may be inclined to want to give them the verbal equivalent of a 12 page contract detailing everything ahead of time. But you don't need to do that and trying to do it will not only be a mood killer, it will make a lot of people feel dumped on and they will walk away because they don't want to be your free therapist.
You need to focus on good communication, but accept that, among other things, there is a slippery slope in such situations, so just because everyone was clear and upfront going in, that doesn't guarantee that it won't get complicated. You can both agree up front that it is just a no strings attached thing and then both feel differently after you actually lock lips. Or one of you can feel differently. Or there can be a misunderstanding ...and so on.
So stick with being honest and not intentionally deceiving people and be okay with the fact that some of these folks simply aren't going to get the whole spiel about you having a bf and blah blah blah and that it isn't necessarily some kind of problem that it wasn't explicitly discussed. If they don't ask, you aren't obligated to buttonhole them and ensure that they know up front. Some folks will really be fine with you only focusing on the relevant information wrt do you or don't you want to kiss them right here, right now? Those folks who want more info will be inclined to seek it. If they aren't seeking it, you aren't an immoral piece of crap for failing to bring it up.
Random hookups happen with a lot less disclosure beforehand. That is just reality. If there is no intentional deception involved and no callous disregard for their welfare, you are okay, morally speaking. (IMO, obviously).
posted by Michele in California at 10:15 AM on June 20, 2015
Response by poster: You guys, I ended up with the best of both worlds: I made a Tinder account, which meant I could just go ahead and put my relationship stuff out there and people could decide for themselves, and then I matched with somebody who had totally flirted with me in real life a little while ago!
It's a small town, I guess.
Thanks again for all the responses! They really helped.
posted by brisquette at 9:50 AM on July 30, 2015
It's a small town, I guess.
Thanks again for all the responses! They really helped.
posted by brisquette at 9:50 AM on July 30, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
It's pretty funny how many people i've heard complain about stuff like this who are also no-means-no/you can stop at any time/if you just want to do "heavy petting" kind of stuff and stop that's fine proselytisers.
Kissing someone isn't "leading them on". And if they get mad you won't take it further, they're no different than frat boys and PUAs arguing that you wanted to fuck and you just didn't want to admit it and bla bla bla.
People make out at bars and parties. People who get all pouty when it's just making out are babies.
posted by emptythought at 12:40 PM on June 18, 2015 [6 favorites]