Mystery illness for my 2003 Jetta
June 3, 2015 7:49 AM Subscribe
My 2003 1.8T Volkswagen Jetta is randomly dying and no one seems to know why. What mystery illness might it have? Details inside. Anyone outsmart my mechanic(s).
My 2003 Jetta is just stopping - well the engine is. Just randomly shutting off so I lose power steering and car just rolls to a stop. Electrical system is fine - well power at least - can turn everything on, etc. When I try to crank it it won't start - unless I wait about 2 minutes then it starts again. This never seems to happen under 25 minutes of drive time. Once I restart it it has a tendency to happen again with 5 minutes or so and continues to do so until I stop for a while. For example 8 hours at work and then I can drive it for at least sometimes 25 min - other times it survives the whole 45 min commute home. I will NOT do it if the car is idling. You can leave the car idling for a hour and nothing will happen. I *think* but can't be sure that it may not happen while eI am actively pressing on gas pedal and may be more likely to happen after quick acceleration or a turn (can't say 100% on those).
So far my local mechanic tried twice to fix it. He swapped out the fuel pump and after 25 minutes or so it still died. He pulled out the new rule pump and he swapped out the fuel filter and it seemed fine for a day and then died again.
I brought it to my local VW dealership - they got no errors form the computer but after getting it to die they finally said they saw an error with the fuel pump sensor. They replaced that and it seemed fine for a day and has now started dying again.
This seems to be a mystery to everyone. What are they missing? What else might it be? I am becoming desperate and tired of flushing money down the toilet.
My 2003 Jetta is just stopping - well the engine is. Just randomly shutting off so I lose power steering and car just rolls to a stop. Electrical system is fine - well power at least - can turn everything on, etc. When I try to crank it it won't start - unless I wait about 2 minutes then it starts again. This never seems to happen under 25 minutes of drive time. Once I restart it it has a tendency to happen again with 5 minutes or so and continues to do so until I stop for a while. For example 8 hours at work and then I can drive it for at least sometimes 25 min - other times it survives the whole 45 min commute home. I will NOT do it if the car is idling. You can leave the car idling for a hour and nothing will happen. I *think* but can't be sure that it may not happen while eI am actively pressing on gas pedal and may be more likely to happen after quick acceleration or a turn (can't say 100% on those).
So far my local mechanic tried twice to fix it. He swapped out the fuel pump and after 25 minutes or so it still died. He pulled out the new rule pump and he swapped out the fuel filter and it seemed fine for a day and then died again.
I brought it to my local VW dealership - they got no errors form the computer but after getting it to die they finally said they saw an error with the fuel pump sensor. They replaced that and it seemed fine for a day and has now started dying again.
This seems to be a mystery to everyone. What are they missing? What else might it be? I am becoming desperate and tired of flushing money down the toilet.
My 2003 Jetta...Electrical system is fine
Being a MkIV Golf/Jetta, the electrical system wasn't fine when it left the factory...
Maybe the anti-theft immobilizer is crapping out?
posted by hwyengr at 8:17 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Being a MkIV Golf/Jetta, the electrical system wasn't fine when it left the factory...
Maybe the anti-theft immobilizer is crapping out?
posted by hwyengr at 8:17 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Clogged vent causing vapor lock? After it dies, see if the fuel cap is really hard to remove. Of course with MkIVs it is likely that some stupid sensor has failed. Is it throwing any codes?
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:39 AM on June 3, 2015
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:39 AM on June 3, 2015
A bit of googling says it is likely the crank sensor (engine speed sensor) if the fuel pump has been ruled out.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:59 AM on June 3, 2015
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:59 AM on June 3, 2015
Response by poster: It is a gas engine.
It doesn't engage at all. It's tries and kinda whines but the engine never engages. Not just a click when like the batter is dead. It's the normal sound you get when you start the car but without it actually starting.
posted by IzzeYum at 10:41 AM on June 3, 2015
It doesn't engage at all. It's tries and kinda whines but the engine never engages. Not just a click when like the batter is dead. It's the normal sound you get when you start the car but without it actually starting.
posted by IzzeYum at 10:41 AM on June 3, 2015
Thinking about this some more, maybe try replacing the fuel pump relay? You could even do it yourself, just get a new relay ($30-$50) and a copy of the panel diagram so you know which one to pull.
On one of the car forums I'm on, they won't even give further advice for sporadic running issues unless they can verify that the fuel system and ignition relays are good, since relays act funny and sporadic as they get older.
posted by hwyengr at 10:49 AM on June 3, 2015
On one of the car forums I'm on, they won't even give further advice for sporadic running issues unless they can verify that the fuel system and ignition relays are good, since relays act funny and sporadic as they get older.
posted by hwyengr at 10:49 AM on June 3, 2015
1.8T indicates a turbocharged engine, but that shouldn't be issue here.
Your problem, based on my completely amateur opinion, is heat related. Some how some sort of heat issue is affecting your fuel pump or such shutting it down. Dealer and mechanic had to wait for it to cool down to work on it, thus they never see it. Given the age of the vehicle, and the turbo engine, I'd say you have an exhaust leak or manifold leak somewhere, completely hypothetical of course. And that heat is cooking a part of your ignition circuit. Could be anywhere along the line, from relay to sensor to pump to wire.
Just have them look for an exhaust leak and see if they find anything. Keep in mind that exhaust leaks can become expensive depending on where it occured.
(Not really related: two weeks ago I had to swap out my AC coil. There's a leak and it leaked just enough to turn OFF the AC when it got to 80 F, but when I drive to cooler weather AC works again. Drove me CRAZY. )
posted by kschang at 11:07 AM on June 3, 2015
Your problem, based on my completely amateur opinion, is heat related. Some how some sort of heat issue is affecting your fuel pump or such shutting it down. Dealer and mechanic had to wait for it to cool down to work on it, thus they never see it. Given the age of the vehicle, and the turbo engine, I'd say you have an exhaust leak or manifold leak somewhere, completely hypothetical of course. And that heat is cooking a part of your ignition circuit. Could be anywhere along the line, from relay to sensor to pump to wire.
Just have them look for an exhaust leak and see if they find anything. Keep in mind that exhaust leaks can become expensive depending on where it occured.
(Not really related: two weeks ago I had to swap out my AC coil. There's a leak and it leaked just enough to turn OFF the AC when it got to 80 F, but when I drive to cooler weather AC works again. Drove me CRAZY. )
posted by kschang at 11:07 AM on June 3, 2015
it's a 12 year old volkswagen. not to be snarky, but they aren't that robust. why would someone who doesn't have the car in front of them (and is probably not a mechanic) be able to "outsmart" someone who is and does?
sorry, but start shopping.
posted by tremspeed at 1:03 PM on June 3, 2015
sorry, but start shopping.
posted by tremspeed at 1:03 PM on June 3, 2015
Response by poster: My hope is that someone has experience a similar problem. It's difficult for them to diagnose because it doesn't die for seemingly at least 20 minutes. If I could be helpful by saying someone had similar symptoms and it was xyz then perhaps that would help narrow it down for them. It's clearly difficult to find as 2 mechanics have already looked and failed.
posted by IzzeYum at 1:21 PM on June 3, 2015
posted by IzzeYum at 1:21 PM on June 3, 2015
Based on the complete shut off and the fuel pump being ruled out (it is next to impossible that two pumps have the same issue, particularly a heat related issue) then my guess is a crank sensor or similar issue. Some kind of vibration issue with a failing sensor either losing voltage, signal or earth.
I can't see it being purely heat related because the car is as hot as it is going to get after 10 minutes so it'd happen then. The 20-25 minutes would seem to me to be a red herring other than it is something that happens when the faulty component is hot (ie expanded) rather than cold. This aligns with some kind of internal dry joint/broken wire.
I had a similar issue with a throttle body once (on a Jag, though). Totally random failure, not related to heat/time/outside temp *sometimes* related to touching the throttle after long idle periods (ie coasting off the highway and the car shut off at the point I reapplied throttle. This is most likely to me. The system on a Jetta is relatively simple, but any sensor that gives an incorrect reading that is considered VERY BAD by the ECU would be on my list - throttle position sensor, crank and/or cam sensor. Something where a momentary short circuit causes it to throw a loop and shut the engine off.
That'd be where I'd start. Odd that it is not throwing a code for this, though. I presume they've been reading them? Even if the check engine light hasn't come on?
posted by Brockles at 4:35 PM on June 3, 2015
I can't see it being purely heat related because the car is as hot as it is going to get after 10 minutes so it'd happen then. The 20-25 minutes would seem to me to be a red herring other than it is something that happens when the faulty component is hot (ie expanded) rather than cold. This aligns with some kind of internal dry joint/broken wire.
I had a similar issue with a throttle body once (on a Jag, though). Totally random failure, not related to heat/time/outside temp *sometimes* related to touching the throttle after long idle periods (ie coasting off the highway and the car shut off at the point I reapplied throttle. This is most likely to me. The system on a Jetta is relatively simple, but any sensor that gives an incorrect reading that is considered VERY BAD by the ECU would be on my list - throttle position sensor, crank and/or cam sensor. Something where a momentary short circuit causes it to throw a loop and shut the engine off.
That'd be where I'd start. Odd that it is not throwing a code for this, though. I presume they've been reading them? Even if the check engine light hasn't come on?
posted by Brockles at 4:35 PM on June 3, 2015
We had a sort of similar issue with a Subaru. In our case, the culprit was the electrical system + water. (I don't remember where the water was getting in--the battery?) That's why the mechanic couldn't duplicate it! We hadn't connected it to rain, and they didn't figure out out till they put it through their car wash on, like, our third time taking it in to them.
posted by wintersweet at 5:34 PM on June 3, 2015
posted by wintersweet at 5:34 PM on June 3, 2015
This car is 5 years before that recall. It's very unlikely to be related or even the same components installed.
posted by Brockles at 5:41 AM on June 4, 2015
posted by Brockles at 5:41 AM on June 4, 2015
Only brought it up because of the number of VW owners who came out of the woodwork once the recall was announced, many of them with much older cars than those recalled, with similar stories of engines that just stopped.
For bystanders: on car matters, if you're trying to choose between listening to me or listening to Brockles, listen to Brockles.
posted by flabdablet at 7:21 AM on June 4, 2015
For bystanders: on car matters, if you're trying to choose between listening to me or listening to Brockles, listen to Brockles.
posted by flabdablet at 7:21 AM on June 4, 2015
« Older My wonderful Mr. Right sucks in bed and I don't... | How do I supercharge Excel's Data Validation tool? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Just to be clear, when you crank it, does it actually turn over? Or does the starter motor not engage at all?
posted by fifthrider at 8:13 AM on June 3, 2015