My wonderful Mr. Right sucks in bed and I don't know how to tell him
June 3, 2015 7:40 AM Subscribe
I am in love with my wonderful boyfriend of 3 months. The only problem is that he doesn't seem to care that I am not having ANY orgasms with him, he's not into oral sex (the only thing that has worked for me in the past), he's not into foreplay, he barely kisses me, and he doesn't even realize that I'm unhappy because I am too wimpy and unassertive to voice a word of complaint. He's a very macho "alpha male" old-fashioned chivalrous type and I am afraid to emasculate him by giving him directions in the bedroom or telling him that I'm not satisfied.
I have been dating a wonderful man for the past 3 months. I am in my early 30s and he's in his late 30s. I like him more than any man I have ever dated. He is wonderfully kind and considerate of me. He has a great sense of humor. He's ambitious and driven in his career. He's extremely responsible. We have a ton of common interests and never run out of things to talk about. We have great chemistry and I'm very attracted to him. In fact, this is the first time I have EVER dated someone and could actually picture myself marrying that person.
But, of course... there's a problem. I am not fulfilled in the bedroom, and he doesn't seem to recognize that there's a problem. By the way: He is much more sexually experienced than I am and supposedly he's had lots of relationships, including a live-in girlfriend in the past.
Ironically, my only previous serious relationship was with someone who was a virgin when we met but turned out to be fantastic in bed, loved giving oral sex, and practically anticipated my every need. I ended up leaving that guy because he wasn't organized/responsible/intellectual enough for me long-term. Funny, because I'm now with someone who has the completely reverse set of traits: super bright and responsible, but it's almost like he doesn't know I have a clitoris!
In the very beginning he said something about needing to learn my "hot buttons" and he even tried some manual stimulation very briefly the first and second times things got sexual. He also did some elaborate grinding during the act, but he stopped after a couple of sessions when I was unresponsive to it. So now I see that was an attempt to help me out. (Does that work on any female, ever?) But I feel like he sorta just plain gave up since then. Now he doesn't even do any of that or say that kind of thing. He seems fine with the way things are. There's barely any foreplay. He just goes in and does his thing. He really likes cuddling, though. So basically, we're either chastely cuddling OR having full-on penetrative sex, with no middle ground and no focused attention to my clitoris. He doesn't even seem all that into kissing for more than second or two. I once asked him how he'd rate his sex drive (low, medium, or high) and he said medium! (I told him mine is high.) The main reason I asked was that he seemed less sexually eager than my previous boyfriend--he could happily just hang out with me in public for an entire day without trying to get me alone, and sometimes I think he likes cuddling and having intellectual conversations more than actual sex. He doesn't really touch my erogenous zones that much, preferring to stroke my hair or my back for hours as we lie in bed talking.
At first, I was so attracted to him that I barely even noticed that I wasn't being *stimulated* down there. But now that we've been together for a while, and he's made no attempt to help me get off, I'm just sort of confused and worried that this may be the permanent status quo.
I have not voiced any complaints so far, and here's why: I am not assertive, unfortunately. I'm the type of person who will just drift away from a bad relationship/friendship/etc. rather than voice any complaints. I hate confrontation. I am horrible at asking for me-me-me stuff. Was kinda hoping he would just know instinctively that, gee, more than ONE person should be having an orgasm for it to be considered good sex. Since he's so much more sexually experienced, I assumed he had some sort of game plan and that eventually he'd start doing stuff for me. But here I am... still waiting.... Another issue is that he's very much an old-fashioned, macho, in-charge, chivalrous kind of guy and I don't want to offend him or emasculate him with a difficult conversation. I want to do this right (i.e. carefully) if I do it at all.
As for oral, early on he made it clear that he isn't into it (he said he isn't that into receiving, and even though in our first sex conversation - before we ever had sex - I said, in response to his query, that "I only come from oral," yet, despite that explicit description of my preferences, he has never ever tried doing it, not even once, so clearly he is NOT into giving, either). I do it to him often without being asked (not to completion), and he seems to really enjoy it, though he has said he prefers actual sex because of the full-body contact. Even though he's never asked for me to do it, I do it unprompted because I really enjoy it -- the way I might enjoy giving someone a back massage, if I care about that person. It's not a tit-for-tat thing.
I wouldn't want him to do something for me if he hated doing it, but surely there must be other ways for him to do stuff for me. Or even to try. It's the thought that counts.
I just look ahead to this bleak future of one-sidedness and apparent indifference to my needs and I want to cry..... Outside the bedroom, he is better than I ever hoped for. He is kind and intellectually curious and responsible and playful and energetic. I love spending time with him.
But as I've said, I'm really not good at asking for stuff, especially when the other person seems pointedly averse to doing it. (i.e. I cannot imagine asking for oral at this point when he is avoiding it despite KNOWING I'm into it.)
Frankly it just really bums me that he doesn't even want to try.... If I never brought it up, would he just go on like this for a year? Forever?
Maybe my first boyfriend spoiled me. He happened to be into everything I was into in the bedroom (kissing, foreplay, oral sex), and this guy apparently isn't. I just don't know if I can choose someone because he's "perfect... except for the sex."
I have been dating a wonderful man for the past 3 months. I am in my early 30s and he's in his late 30s. I like him more than any man I have ever dated. He is wonderfully kind and considerate of me. He has a great sense of humor. He's ambitious and driven in his career. He's extremely responsible. We have a ton of common interests and never run out of things to talk about. We have great chemistry and I'm very attracted to him. In fact, this is the first time I have EVER dated someone and could actually picture myself marrying that person.
But, of course... there's a problem. I am not fulfilled in the bedroom, and he doesn't seem to recognize that there's a problem. By the way: He is much more sexually experienced than I am and supposedly he's had lots of relationships, including a live-in girlfriend in the past.
Ironically, my only previous serious relationship was with someone who was a virgin when we met but turned out to be fantastic in bed, loved giving oral sex, and practically anticipated my every need. I ended up leaving that guy because he wasn't organized/responsible/intellectual enough for me long-term. Funny, because I'm now with someone who has the completely reverse set of traits: super bright and responsible, but it's almost like he doesn't know I have a clitoris!
In the very beginning he said something about needing to learn my "hot buttons" and he even tried some manual stimulation very briefly the first and second times things got sexual. He also did some elaborate grinding during the act, but he stopped after a couple of sessions when I was unresponsive to it. So now I see that was an attempt to help me out. (Does that work on any female, ever?) But I feel like he sorta just plain gave up since then. Now he doesn't even do any of that or say that kind of thing. He seems fine with the way things are. There's barely any foreplay. He just goes in and does his thing. He really likes cuddling, though. So basically, we're either chastely cuddling OR having full-on penetrative sex, with no middle ground and no focused attention to my clitoris. He doesn't even seem all that into kissing for more than second or two. I once asked him how he'd rate his sex drive (low, medium, or high) and he said medium! (I told him mine is high.) The main reason I asked was that he seemed less sexually eager than my previous boyfriend--he could happily just hang out with me in public for an entire day without trying to get me alone, and sometimes I think he likes cuddling and having intellectual conversations more than actual sex. He doesn't really touch my erogenous zones that much, preferring to stroke my hair or my back for hours as we lie in bed talking.
At first, I was so attracted to him that I barely even noticed that I wasn't being *stimulated* down there. But now that we've been together for a while, and he's made no attempt to help me get off, I'm just sort of confused and worried that this may be the permanent status quo.
I have not voiced any complaints so far, and here's why: I am not assertive, unfortunately. I'm the type of person who will just drift away from a bad relationship/friendship/etc. rather than voice any complaints. I hate confrontation. I am horrible at asking for me-me-me stuff. Was kinda hoping he would just know instinctively that, gee, more than ONE person should be having an orgasm for it to be considered good sex. Since he's so much more sexually experienced, I assumed he had some sort of game plan and that eventually he'd start doing stuff for me. But here I am... still waiting.... Another issue is that he's very much an old-fashioned, macho, in-charge, chivalrous kind of guy and I don't want to offend him or emasculate him with a difficult conversation. I want to do this right (i.e. carefully) if I do it at all.
As for oral, early on he made it clear that he isn't into it (he said he isn't that into receiving, and even though in our first sex conversation - before we ever had sex - I said, in response to his query, that "I only come from oral," yet, despite that explicit description of my preferences, he has never ever tried doing it, not even once, so clearly he is NOT into giving, either). I do it to him often without being asked (not to completion), and he seems to really enjoy it, though he has said he prefers actual sex because of the full-body contact. Even though he's never asked for me to do it, I do it unprompted because I really enjoy it -- the way I might enjoy giving someone a back massage, if I care about that person. It's not a tit-for-tat thing.
I wouldn't want him to do something for me if he hated doing it, but surely there must be other ways for him to do stuff for me. Or even to try. It's the thought that counts.
I just look ahead to this bleak future of one-sidedness and apparent indifference to my needs and I want to cry..... Outside the bedroom, he is better than I ever hoped for. He is kind and intellectually curious and responsible and playful and energetic. I love spending time with him.
But as I've said, I'm really not good at asking for stuff, especially when the other person seems pointedly averse to doing it. (i.e. I cannot imagine asking for oral at this point when he is avoiding it despite KNOWING I'm into it.)
Frankly it just really bums me that he doesn't even want to try.... If I never brought it up, would he just go on like this for a year? Forever?
Maybe my first boyfriend spoiled me. He happened to be into everything I was into in the bedroom (kissing, foreplay, oral sex), and this guy apparently isn't. I just don't know if I can choose someone because he's "perfect... except for the sex."
You have two options: you can talk to him about this or you can walk. Living with it as it is will just make you miserable.
You two can communicate about other issues, so do what works for you both in those other conversations. Suggest something that would help you - it's not just the oral that's a problem, it's that he isn't doing Any of the things that work for you. Maybe say that you liked it when he manually stimulated his clit, and guide him a little in that? Maybe stimulate yourself manually during sex and see if he's okay with it and takes a cue.
But if you don't talk about it, it won't get better.
Also: think hard about whether the mismatch in libidos will be a problem for you long term.
posted by ldthomps at 7:54 AM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
You two can communicate about other issues, so do what works for you both in those other conversations. Suggest something that would help you - it's not just the oral that's a problem, it's that he isn't doing Any of the things that work for you. Maybe say that you liked it when he manually stimulated his clit, and guide him a little in that? Maybe stimulate yourself manually during sex and see if he's okay with it and takes a cue.
But if you don't talk about it, it won't get better.
Also: think hard about whether the mismatch in libidos will be a problem for you long term.
posted by ldthomps at 7:54 AM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
If he's unwilling to do the only thing that helps you orgasm, yeah, walk. Try speaking up again first if it makes you feel better and you think it might help, but oral should pretty much come standard and I'd leave if it didn't after I had explicitly stated my preferences.
posted by charmedimsure at 7:56 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by charmedimsure at 7:56 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I know you want to avoid this, but at some point you will need to have a conversation with this man. If he is as kind and as sensitive as you imply then it should be ok.
Some people have strong sexual preferences. He may simply be opposed to giving oral sex; if that's the line he refuses to cross then you need to find that out whether that is the case and make a decision about your relationship based on that. But you are not going to get anywhere if you don't say anything: you've already tried that and it's been ineffective.
If you'd like a script, then how about something along the lines of
"Listen, I've really been enjoying sex with you but I feel like it's been focused too much on your needs rather than mine. I really feel like we could improve things if we focussed a bit more on foreplay. I know you're less of a fan of it, but would you consider going down on me? I can make sure to wash before sex/trim if that's the issue for you? I really love it when you orgasm, and would really like to share in that with you!"
posted by Cannon Fodder at 7:57 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some people have strong sexual preferences. He may simply be opposed to giving oral sex; if that's the line he refuses to cross then you need to find that out whether that is the case and make a decision about your relationship based on that. But you are not going to get anywhere if you don't say anything: you've already tried that and it's been ineffective.
If you'd like a script, then how about something along the lines of
"Listen, I've really been enjoying sex with you but I feel like it's been focused too much on your needs rather than mine. I really feel like we could improve things if we focussed a bit more on foreplay. I know you're less of a fan of it, but would you consider going down on me? I can make sure to wash before sex/trim if that's the issue for you? I really love it when you orgasm, and would really like to share in that with you!"
posted by Cannon Fodder at 7:57 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have not voiced any complaints so far, and here's why: I am not assertive, unfortunately. I'm the type of person who will just drift away from a bad relationship/friendship/etc. rather than voice any complaints. I hate confrontation. I am horrible at asking for me-me-me stuff.
I am, too, so believe me when I know what I'm talking about: you have to learn to be comfortable asking for what you want. You can't have a successful relationship without this. Even with the perfect partner, there will come a time when you have needs or desires they won't anticipate, or when something they're doing isn't working for you and they have no idea.
Is he the right guy for you? Is he inconsiderate for not giving you the type of sexual attention you want? Should he have made more of an effort? I don't really know, to be honest. If I had to guess, it sounds like he tried in the beginning and didn't get much a response from you - neither a "yes, this!" nor a "can we do this instead?" - and there hasn't really been much talking about it from either of you since then. If you haven't brought anything up, he doesn't necessarily know anything's wrong.
You may in fact be sexually incompatible, but if you care about him and want this to work, you need to speak up. You don't know whether this is a fixable problem unless you try to fix it.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:01 AM on June 3, 2015 [23 favorites]
I am, too, so believe me when I know what I'm talking about: you have to learn to be comfortable asking for what you want. You can't have a successful relationship without this. Even with the perfect partner, there will come a time when you have needs or desires they won't anticipate, or when something they're doing isn't working for you and they have no idea.
Is he the right guy for you? Is he inconsiderate for not giving you the type of sexual attention you want? Should he have made more of an effort? I don't really know, to be honest. If I had to guess, it sounds like he tried in the beginning and didn't get much a response from you - neither a "yes, this!" nor a "can we do this instead?" - and there hasn't really been much talking about it from either of you since then. If you haven't brought anything up, he doesn't necessarily know anything's wrong.
You may in fact be sexually incompatible, but if you care about him and want this to work, you need to speak up. You don't know whether this is a fixable problem unless you try to fix it.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:01 AM on June 3, 2015 [23 favorites]
There seem to be a few separate problems getting all snowballed together here but the main one is: neither of you seem to be able to talk about sex with your sex partner. And that is a Basic Grownup Skill on a par with knowing how to pay your rent or do laundry. So, I'm sorry that it makes you uncomfortable--it makes everyone uncomfortable at first--but you're going to have to power through the discomfort and have a conversation. About sex. With the person you are sexing.
It seems like both of you expected this new relationship to be identical, sexually, to some previous one. You clearly expected the kind of point-for-point, intuitive compatibility you had with your ex. He seems to have tried/be trying techniques that worked for a woman/women in his past, but they don't work for you. And both of you, finding that your new SO is not your old SO, have just...shrugged and given up.
Waiting for someone to read your mind is an exercise doomed to failure.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:09 AM on June 3, 2015 [59 favorites]
It seems like both of you expected this new relationship to be identical, sexually, to some previous one. You clearly expected the kind of point-for-point, intuitive compatibility you had with your ex. He seems to have tried/be trying techniques that worked for a woman/women in his past, but they don't work for you. And both of you, finding that your new SO is not your old SO, have just...shrugged and given up.
Waiting for someone to read your mind is an exercise doomed to failure.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:09 AM on June 3, 2015 [59 favorites]
One possibility is that he's so unsure about what you want that he's just not trying anything. He's just as uncomfortable discussing this as you are! It sucks that the task of awkward communication is falling on you, but I can't see this continuing much longer without you getting seriously resentful of him.
posted by chaiminda at 8:09 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by chaiminda at 8:09 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
(When I say that it is a Basic Grownup Skill I do not mean to say it is easy; just that it is basically mandatory. Lots of people find laundry and household maintenance challenging and unhappy, but you'd still expect a 35 year old person to be able to do them on a basic level.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:11 AM on June 3, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:11 AM on June 3, 2015 [18 favorites]
The longer you go without telling him, the more it is going to hurt his ego. I'm sure that he senses your lackluster response but doesn't know how to address it. He probably is equally unsatisfied. A great lover is not dependant on another's actions for her own pleasure. She actively seeks out her own organsm. It drives men wild. You can learn how to be a great lover. It is going to take some time alone, possibly in the bath or shower, maybe even with a toy or two. Once you learn how to fulfil your own needs, then you can communicate those needs to your partner. Coming just by oral is very limiting. Stop thinking about your past and work on your future. And insist on more kissing. You can instigate foreplay and control it. Start touching the back of his neck and sneaking kisses while you are out in public and he can't do much about it. When he goes for the gold, hold his hand back and tell him, in a sexy way, to wait. You have to speak up. Don't be a ghost in your own bed.
posted by myselfasme at 8:13 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 8:13 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't think of it as "complaining" when you ask him to do something in bed. Yes, you had that one conversation early on, but sometimes people need reminding, especially in the heat of the moment.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:27 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:27 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
I am afraid to emasculate him by giving him directions in the bedroom or telling him that I'm not satisfied.
If he feels emasculated by something as common and simple as being directed on what makes you feel good, you have bigger issues than him not wanting to eat pussy (which would be a deal-breaker for me).
posted by Windigo at 8:31 AM on June 3, 2015 [41 favorites]
If he feels emasculated by something as common and simple as being directed on what makes you feel good, you have bigger issues than him not wanting to eat pussy (which would be a deal-breaker for me).
posted by Windigo at 8:31 AM on June 3, 2015 [41 favorites]
It is very common for men to feel emasculated/upset when you have this kind of conversation. But the alternative is no orgasms with a partner for the duration of your relationship. This is the case because of pervasive societal sexism, it's not your fault, and you can't live this way. If I were you, I'd try "sandwiching" the criticism, like so:
"Partner, I love it when we have sex, I feel so close to you and you're such a babe. But I'm not having orgasms when we make love, and that's important to me. In the past, oral sex has gotten me off, but I know that's not your thing. Could we try some new things/use a toy/try experimenting a bit? I really like to take it slow, it helps get me revved up and feel satisfied at the end. And I love how gentle and affectionate you are when we're cuddling up before/after."
Constructive criticism sandwiched between two positives. (If the positives I came up with aren't true, use some that are, of course!) I used to be a woman with a high sex drive with a male partner with a "medium" sex drivce. He might really not understand that you're feeling dissatisfied, because sex is not as important to him. Try talking it out before you give up (but if he acts like an unrepentant baby, feel free to give up).
posted by easter queen at 8:48 AM on June 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
"Partner, I love it when we have sex, I feel so close to you and you're such a babe. But I'm not having orgasms when we make love, and that's important to me. In the past, oral sex has gotten me off, but I know that's not your thing. Could we try some new things/use a toy/try experimenting a bit? I really like to take it slow, it helps get me revved up and feel satisfied at the end. And I love how gentle and affectionate you are when we're cuddling up before/after."
Constructive criticism sandwiched between two positives. (If the positives I came up with aren't true, use some that are, of course!) I used to be a woman with a high sex drive with a male partner with a "medium" sex drivce. He might really not understand that you're feeling dissatisfied, because sex is not as important to him. Try talking it out before you give up (but if he acts like an unrepentant baby, feel free to give up).
posted by easter queen at 8:48 AM on June 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Oral sex is the state of the art in sexual activity these days. I’m sorry, there is no plausible reason why this man’s distaste for going down on a woman should be considered something you need to accept or work around.
You told him that’s what makes you come, and he hasn’t done it? That really speaks poorly of him either as a listener, or as a person who will not take your needs into account.
And, just in a general sense, as I review my past relationships I think sexual compatibility is a huge huge hugely important thing that people tend to minimize if everything else is pretty good. I think, long term, when you are a person with a strong sex drive, being with someone who turns your sex life into a battle to be satisfied is a terrible waste of time.
Talk to him. If he doesn’t shape up, 100% and immediately (meaning, he starts eating your pussy like his mama made it), you need to move on.
posted by jayder at 8:54 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
You told him that’s what makes you come, and he hasn’t done it? That really speaks poorly of him either as a listener, or as a person who will not take your needs into account.
And, just in a general sense, as I review my past relationships I think sexual compatibility is a huge huge hugely important thing that people tend to minimize if everything else is pretty good. I think, long term, when you are a person with a strong sex drive, being with someone who turns your sex life into a battle to be satisfied is a terrible waste of time.
Talk to him. If he doesn’t shape up, 100% and immediately (meaning, he starts eating your pussy like his mama made it), you need to move on.
posted by jayder at 8:54 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
You don't have to have a big dramatic "I am sexually unsatisfied" conversation. You can just say "I want you to do [x]."
Assuming [x] isn't dangerously or unethically beyond the pale, any decent partner should say, "sure, baby."
"I'm not into [x]" is insufficient reason to refuse [x] to a partner who needs/wants [x] to get off. "I have a hard time with [x] because of past trauma" means, well, maybe therapy is in order. "I don't like doing [x] because vaginas gross me out" is not something Mr. Right would ever say.
Because really, I'm saying "[x]," but we're talking about male-to-female oral sex here.
Ideally, he would volunteer this because hey why the hell wouldn't you want that and why wouldn't he want to give you what you want, you even said so previously. But there are no perfectly ideal partners. So you do have to talk to him, no way around that, and be really clear about what you want. There are not many excuses for why he could continue to demur after that.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:57 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Assuming [x] isn't dangerously or unethically beyond the pale, any decent partner should say, "sure, baby."
"I'm not into [x]" is insufficient reason to refuse [x] to a partner who needs/wants [x] to get off. "I have a hard time with [x] because of past trauma" means, well, maybe therapy is in order. "I don't like doing [x] because vaginas gross me out" is not something Mr. Right would ever say.
Because really, I'm saying "[x]," but we're talking about male-to-female oral sex here.
Ideally, he would volunteer this because hey why the hell wouldn't you want that and why wouldn't he want to give you what you want, you even said so previously. But there are no perfectly ideal partners. So you do have to talk to him, no way around that, and be really clear about what you want. There are not many excuses for why he could continue to demur after that.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:57 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Would you consider buying a sex toy (vibrator, probably) and introducing it during sexytimes? If you use it by yourself and it gets the job done, then you can show him "Look what I found!" (Lots of men like gadgets.) Even the most macho of men often like to learn new tricks and have their partner show off something new. (And yes, oral is important, but you know--if this was a woman who didn't like sucking cock, the answers here would be very different.)
You say you only can orgasm from oral--do you masturbate? Maybe there's a whole new world you two can explore.
posted by Ideefixe at 8:58 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
You say you only can orgasm from oral--do you masturbate? Maybe there's a whole new world you two can explore.
posted by Ideefixe at 8:58 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
If you don't want to complain, you could frame it as "it would be super hot and really turn me on if you xyz." Frankly, that should be enough if he's really that great.
If that doesn't work, have a bigger conversation about how this is something you need and want to work on together. It might not be perfect at first as he may not know what he's doing or have performance anxiety issues or something, but he needs to try.
If he doesn't work on things after that conversation, you should walk sooner rather than later.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:02 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
If that doesn't work, have a bigger conversation about how this is something you need and want to work on together. It might not be perfect at first as he may not know what he's doing or have performance anxiety issues or something, but he needs to try.
If he doesn't work on things after that conversation, you should walk sooner rather than later.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:02 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think you might have three routes here:
1. Direct - this is a direct conversation probably outside of the bedroom (i.e. not right as you're trying to get down) where you tell him that you want to make sex *more* fulfilling & you have some ideas as to how to do that.
2. Indirect - this is as you are trying to have sex; you can initiate dirty talk where describe in detail what you want him to do, you can bring a sex toy into the bedroom and ask to try it out together, you can see if he wants to play an adult version of "Simon Says." This is probably going to need a follow-up conversation where you establish that you want to do the successful things from within it more often.
3. Leaving - if you cannot talk about this with this guy, directly or indirectly. I don't think it's going to work out long term. Sex is not going to be the only thing where you want it one way he and wants it another way and if you can't talk and compromise it spells trouble for later, in my opinion.
posted by CMcG at 9:10 AM on June 3, 2015
1. Direct - this is a direct conversation probably outside of the bedroom (i.e. not right as you're trying to get down) where you tell him that you want to make sex *more* fulfilling & you have some ideas as to how to do that.
2. Indirect - this is as you are trying to have sex; you can initiate dirty talk where describe in detail what you want him to do, you can bring a sex toy into the bedroom and ask to try it out together, you can see if he wants to play an adult version of "Simon Says." This is probably going to need a follow-up conversation where you establish that you want to do the successful things from within it more often.
3. Leaving - if you cannot talk about this with this guy, directly or indirectly. I don't think it's going to work out long term. Sex is not going to be the only thing where you want it one way he and wants it another way and if you can't talk and compromise it spells trouble for later, in my opinion.
posted by CMcG at 9:10 AM on June 3, 2015
If you can't talk to him about something so fundamental to the success of the relationship as sex and what works for you, then he's not Mr. Right.
He may come by his lack of interest in your orgasm honestly: our culture shapes sexual desire around the male's orgasm and his sexual inclinations, but a man who doesn't at least open the door to conversations about is a red flag: what other parts of your lives together will it not occur to him to consult you about? Are you prepared to initiate and manage all of those conversations?
posted by spindrifter at 9:31 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
He may come by his lack of interest in your orgasm honestly: our culture shapes sexual desire around the male's orgasm and his sexual inclinations, but a man who doesn't at least open the door to conversations about is a red flag: what other parts of your lives together will it not occur to him to consult you about? Are you prepared to initiate and manage all of those conversations?
posted by spindrifter at 9:31 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Another issue is that he's very much an old-fashioned, macho, in-charge, chivalrous kind of guy and I don't want to offend him or emasculate him with a difficult conversation. I want to do this right (i.e. carefully) if I do it at all.
If making a completely reasonable and normal request is "offensive" and "emasculating," run away from this guy. He's not Mr. Right.
Being tactful is good, but you shouldn't need to be afraid of how you phrase things around someone you love. "Orgasms are really important to me, and oral is the only way I can get them. Is that something you are willing to do?" You're not calling him a dumb jerk, you're not being pushy or manipulative or passive-aggressive, and you're leaving him space to say no.
Assertiveness takes practice and you have a very good reason to practice it here. Please don't settle for this guy; it will only lead to resentment and regret.
posted by desjardins at 9:43 AM on June 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
If making a completely reasonable and normal request is "offensive" and "emasculating," run away from this guy. He's not Mr. Right.
Being tactful is good, but you shouldn't need to be afraid of how you phrase things around someone you love. "Orgasms are really important to me, and oral is the only way I can get them. Is that something you are willing to do?" You're not calling him a dumb jerk, you're not being pushy or manipulative or passive-aggressive, and you're leaving him space to say no.
Assertiveness takes practice and you have a very good reason to practice it here. Please don't settle for this guy; it will only lead to resentment and regret.
posted by desjardins at 9:43 AM on June 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
I would probably just break up with him, I think. The fact that you have already outright stated that it is the only way you are able to orgasm, and he's totally ignored that as an unimportant thing, leads me to believe that he is not at all the great guy you think he is. The fact that he's indicated it's not something he likes doing suggests to me that if he did come around to doing it for you it would be done begrudgingly and with lots of complaining and whatnot. I also feel like he would use it as something to reference during arguments as an example of how wonderful and giving he is and how terrible and demanding you are.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:45 AM on June 3, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:45 AM on June 3, 2015 [10 favorites]
Just because it's primarily aimed at teens, that doesn't mean this Scarleteen article won't help you.
Good luck!
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:51 AM on June 3, 2015
Good luck!
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:51 AM on June 3, 2015
while you're working yourself up to having this conversation, let the words of nicki minaj guide you
posted by nadawi at 9:59 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:59 AM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
You can absolutely break up with someone for whatever reasons you want! Especially for sexual incompatibility.
But, it sounds like maybe you are abandoning ship before trying to fix the leaks. You keep talking about your ex and how wonderful things were sexually - have you ever mentioned this to your boyfriend? Fear of competition and failing can make some people avoid situations entirely. Cpuld he tell you were shocked his sex drive wasn't high? Even "alpha" males can have lower sex drives. Also, it's possible his past partners didn't need oral to orgasm, or didn't like it, so it never became something he had to do. And try to stop thinking of him as this almighty male who will be offended by you asking for things you want - unless he has made it clear he is actually this way (in which case you have another issue on your hands) - building up a narrative about someone else to fit a mold can be harmful.
I will suggest showering together in dim light and eventually either leading his head down there or asking in the moment. If he still won't, then you should have a serious talk, of course.
posted by umwhat at 10:17 AM on June 3, 2015
But, it sounds like maybe you are abandoning ship before trying to fix the leaks. You keep talking about your ex and how wonderful things were sexually - have you ever mentioned this to your boyfriend? Fear of competition and failing can make some people avoid situations entirely. Cpuld he tell you were shocked his sex drive wasn't high? Even "alpha" males can have lower sex drives. Also, it's possible his past partners didn't need oral to orgasm, or didn't like it, so it never became something he had to do. And try to stop thinking of him as this almighty male who will be offended by you asking for things you want - unless he has made it clear he is actually this way (in which case you have another issue on your hands) - building up a narrative about someone else to fit a mold can be harmful.
I will suggest showering together in dim light and eventually either leading his head down there or asking in the moment. If he still won't, then you should have a serious talk, of course.
posted by umwhat at 10:17 AM on June 3, 2015
It's not that your first boyfriend spoiled you - that should not be considered being spoiled. Your first was actively engaged in both of your pleasure and experiences.
Life is too short to waste on someone who isn't willing to be.
posted by ApathyGirl at 10:41 AM on June 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
Life is too short to waste on someone who isn't willing to be.
posted by ApathyGirl at 10:41 AM on June 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
If he doesn't like oral sex and is unwilling to engage even though he knows that you love it and it's the way you orgasm, then he should be open to other ways to please you. That means encouraging you to ask for what you want during foreplay, finding toys you like to use together, and figuring out what kinds of manual or other stimulation you like.
He may think that he's a wonder in bed because he's had a string of partners who never bothered to teach him what a woman may like and just defaulted to faking orgasms for the length of the relationship. This, unfortunately, is not uncommon at all. Your experience with your previous partner pushes you way ahead of current boyfriend, IMO, because you communicated clearly and explored what you both liked instead of just defaulting to no-frills P in V sex. He may have had more partners, but his approach sounds quite pedestrian and unengaged.
You can be clear with him about what you need and want without "emasculating" him. No need to tiptoe around it. If he finds any type of constructive criticism and request for change to be "emasculating," then his sense of manhood is built on the most shaky ground there is. He should be focused on his partner's pleasure and satisfaction, not on preserving the delicate myth of his masculine prowess.
How he hasn't realized that his partner is not getting off is beyond me. How he's not concerned at all with checking-in with you about your pleasure is also not a ringing endorsement of how sensitive and considerate he is. When you bring it up, he should listen attentively, apologize for being on autopilot and not checking-in with you, and he should be open and enthusiastic about starting a dialogue about how to make your sex life more satisfying. If he minimizes your concerns, prioritizes feeling butt-hurt, or gets offended at the suggestion that you include toys and/or other techniques in your sex life, then I think you should let him go. Being with someone who isn't concerned with your sexual pleasure is not healthy or happy.
posted by quince at 11:00 AM on June 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
He may think that he's a wonder in bed because he's had a string of partners who never bothered to teach him what a woman may like and just defaulted to faking orgasms for the length of the relationship. This, unfortunately, is not uncommon at all. Your experience with your previous partner pushes you way ahead of current boyfriend, IMO, because you communicated clearly and explored what you both liked instead of just defaulting to no-frills P in V sex. He may have had more partners, but his approach sounds quite pedestrian and unengaged.
You can be clear with him about what you need and want without "emasculating" him. No need to tiptoe around it. If he finds any type of constructive criticism and request for change to be "emasculating," then his sense of manhood is built on the most shaky ground there is. He should be focused on his partner's pleasure and satisfaction, not on preserving the delicate myth of his masculine prowess.
How he hasn't realized that his partner is not getting off is beyond me. How he's not concerned at all with checking-in with you about your pleasure is also not a ringing endorsement of how sensitive and considerate he is. When you bring it up, he should listen attentively, apologize for being on autopilot and not checking-in with you, and he should be open and enthusiastic about starting a dialogue about how to make your sex life more satisfying. If he minimizes your concerns, prioritizes feeling butt-hurt, or gets offended at the suggestion that you include toys and/or other techniques in your sex life, then I think you should let him go. Being with someone who isn't concerned with your sexual pleasure is not healthy or happy.
posted by quince at 11:00 AM on June 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think you are ascribing FAR more consideration of this matter to him than the evidence merits. When he doesn't appear to take into account what you said, it's natural to infer other hidden causes that explain the discrepancy between his behavior and the information he has: he doesn't believe you! accommodating this information would be very difficult or unpleasant for him! his mother is secretly manipulating him! etc. We all tend to do this: assume the information we shared is available to the other person and try to figure out their behavior from there. We leave out explanations based on other people actually not knowing what we said. For example:
even though in our first sex conversation [...] I said [...] that "I only come from oral," [...] he has never ever tried doing it, not even once, so clearly he is NOT into giving, either
Here's another explanation: He wasn't really listening during the 5 seconds when you said that, because he remembered that thing he was supposed to do at work. Or: he was listening, but then he forgot between then and the next time you had sex. Or: he was kind of zoned out and thought in the moment that you meant you only came from giving oral, which was kind of odd but fine, and didn't give it another thought.
Some people go through life kind of just doing what they want and figuring if they're bothering anyone, or if anyone wants them to do something different, they'll hear about it. Some people are like this about wearing perfume--while you and I think things like "She MUST know that it's very strong, because she must have experienced thinking other people's perfume is too strong even when they think it has faded. Maybe she wants me to get a migraine. Maybe her boyfriend really likes the smell but he was in a tragic accident where his olfactory cortex was almost all destroyed. Maybe it's the only link she has to her recently deceased mother. That's the only reason I would wear such strong perfume if my coworker had mentioned last June that she felt sick when people wore perfume in the office." Some people are like this about walking on the sidewalk, completely unaware that people behind them are strategizing feverishly about how to politely get around them. And some people are like this about sex or relationships.
My bet is on some combination of "he didn't hear you, and you seem pretty happy" and "he figures you'll let him know what you want." Nothing at all about him "having a game plan." He does not have a game plan.
But it's up to you how much it matters to you that (a) he's not proactively trying to make you happier or asking you what you want and (b) he doesn't naturally gravitate to the same sorts of activities you like in bed. Those are completely reasonable things to care about.
posted by cogitron at 11:06 AM on June 3, 2015 [20 favorites]
even though in our first sex conversation [...] I said [...] that "I only come from oral," [...] he has never ever tried doing it, not even once, so clearly he is NOT into giving, either
Here's another explanation: He wasn't really listening during the 5 seconds when you said that, because he remembered that thing he was supposed to do at work. Or: he was listening, but then he forgot between then and the next time you had sex. Or: he was kind of zoned out and thought in the moment that you meant you only came from giving oral, which was kind of odd but fine, and didn't give it another thought.
Some people go through life kind of just doing what they want and figuring if they're bothering anyone, or if anyone wants them to do something different, they'll hear about it. Some people are like this about wearing perfume--while you and I think things like "She MUST know that it's very strong, because she must have experienced thinking other people's perfume is too strong even when they think it has faded. Maybe she wants me to get a migraine. Maybe her boyfriend really likes the smell but he was in a tragic accident where his olfactory cortex was almost all destroyed. Maybe it's the only link she has to her recently deceased mother. That's the only reason I would wear such strong perfume if my coworker had mentioned last June that she felt sick when people wore perfume in the office." Some people are like this about walking on the sidewalk, completely unaware that people behind them are strategizing feverishly about how to politely get around them. And some people are like this about sex or relationships.
My bet is on some combination of "he didn't hear you, and you seem pretty happy" and "he figures you'll let him know what you want." Nothing at all about him "having a game plan." He does not have a game plan.
But it's up to you how much it matters to you that (a) he's not proactively trying to make you happier or asking you what you want and (b) he doesn't naturally gravitate to the same sorts of activities you like in bed. Those are completely reasonable things to care about.
posted by cogitron at 11:06 AM on June 3, 2015 [20 favorites]
I'd say dump him. He ain't perfect, and if he can't take advice, he ain't good for you.
As Dan Savage would say, you two are not sexually compatible. If you two were understanding, he would let you go outside and play (ahem) but from your description, you should play elsewhere.
posted by kschang at 11:09 AM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
As Dan Savage would say, you two are not sexually compatible. If you two were understanding, he would let you go outside and play (ahem) but from your description, you should play elsewhere.
posted by kschang at 11:09 AM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
If I never brought it up, would he just go on like this for a year? Forever?
Probably. He seems happy with the way things are. As far as he can probably tell, so are you.
You saying "I really want you to go down on me" is not emasculating. It's telling him how he can make you enjoy yourself. That's kinda the opposite of emasculating, because who doesn't want their sexual partners to have fun? Telling your guy "this is a thing you can do for me that I really enjoy and that will make me achieve orgasm" is not a problem. If it is a problem for him, then you're better off without him anyway. If he feels like less of a man because his girlfriend likes oral sex, well, I don't know what to say to that (other than "goodbye").
This is an important thing to you, something that you need his help with. If he's a halfway decent guy, he'd really want to know what he could do to make sex better for you. He can't know what that is if you don't tell him, though. It's only fair to give him a chance. Like everyone else on the planet, he gets to say no to any kind of sexual activity, but you need to ask him the question to get an answer.
If you don't say anything, things won't change. Which is scarier to you - the idea of saying something or the idea of spending the rest of this relationship without a single orgasm?
posted by Solomon at 11:34 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Probably. He seems happy with the way things are. As far as he can probably tell, so are you.
You saying "I really want you to go down on me" is not emasculating. It's telling him how he can make you enjoy yourself. That's kinda the opposite of emasculating, because who doesn't want their sexual partners to have fun? Telling your guy "this is a thing you can do for me that I really enjoy and that will make me achieve orgasm" is not a problem. If it is a problem for him, then you're better off without him anyway. If he feels like less of a man because his girlfriend likes oral sex, well, I don't know what to say to that (other than "goodbye").
This is an important thing to you, something that you need his help with. If he's a halfway decent guy, he'd really want to know what he could do to make sex better for you. He can't know what that is if you don't tell him, though. It's only fair to give him a chance. Like everyone else on the planet, he gets to say no to any kind of sexual activity, but you need to ask him the question to get an answer.
If you don't say anything, things won't change. Which is scarier to you - the idea of saying something or the idea of spending the rest of this relationship without a single orgasm?
posted by Solomon at 11:34 AM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Being assertive won't fix this.
7 years after getting married, I have to remind my husband to watch his tone of voice with me when he's stressed out, or ask him to be neater in the bathroom. Drives me nuts sometimes. Seriously. It's like he's in his own universe sometimes....
Except when we're being intimate. Even if time is short, or he climaxes before me, we have fantastic chemistry and he touches me with care. Every. Single. Time.
Tell this guy to walk. This is the ONE thing you don't want to have to remind anyone to do "right."
posted by jbenben at 11:44 AM on June 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
7 years after getting married, I have to remind my husband to watch his tone of voice with me when he's stressed out, or ask him to be neater in the bathroom. Drives me nuts sometimes. Seriously. It's like he's in his own universe sometimes....
Except when we're being intimate. Even if time is short, or he climaxes before me, we have fantastic chemistry and he touches me with care. Every. Single. Time.
Tell this guy to walk. This is the ONE thing you don't want to have to remind anyone to do "right."
posted by jbenben at 11:44 AM on June 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
Okay, there's a few ways I see this.
Option A) [Less Likely] He's intimidated by a vagina. Anecdote: I was with someone who was very kind and considerate in bed, but would barely be around lady parts with hands or mouth. It became obvious that he was just intimidated - as he was considerate during penetration. I don't think this is your situation, since you seem completely unsatisfied, and he's in his 30s - but if it IS your situation then clearly you need to talk to him, tell him what you like, and give him direction.
Option B) [Kind of Likely] He has a viseral reaction to vaginas/vagina smell/vagina juice so much so that cannot stand to eat vaginas. There's really no getting around this without a) exposure b) other fun games/toys/fingers or c) leaving him (really the best choice).
Option C) [Probably exactly what's going on] He doesn't actually really care about your pleasure. He won't take direction well, and won't do what you want him to do. A good man will try to please you, even in becoming more comfortable with doing things he maybe doesn't love. AND if he doesn't really love doing those things then you just aren't a good match! Clearly, if it's the thing that gets you off, you deserve someone who absolutely LOVES to do it.
Flip flop this situation as a good thought experiment. How long do you think he would stay with you if you said "Yeah, I just really don't give blow jobs." I bet he'd split so fast your head would turn. You need a different guy and this guy is NOT considerate.
In general I agree you need to get better at having conversations about sex. Have these conversations away from the bedroom and fully clothed. However I don't think a conversation with him will change anything, it may be good practice.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:50 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Option A) [Less Likely] He's intimidated by a vagina. Anecdote: I was with someone who was very kind and considerate in bed, but would barely be around lady parts with hands or mouth. It became obvious that he was just intimidated - as he was considerate during penetration. I don't think this is your situation, since you seem completely unsatisfied, and he's in his 30s - but if it IS your situation then clearly you need to talk to him, tell him what you like, and give him direction.
Option B) [Kind of Likely] He has a viseral reaction to vaginas/vagina smell/vagina juice so much so that cannot stand to eat vaginas. There's really no getting around this without a) exposure b) other fun games/toys/fingers or c) leaving him (really the best choice).
Option C) [Probably exactly what's going on] He doesn't actually really care about your pleasure. He won't take direction well, and won't do what you want him to do. A good man will try to please you, even in becoming more comfortable with doing things he maybe doesn't love. AND if he doesn't really love doing those things then you just aren't a good match! Clearly, if it's the thing that gets you off, you deserve someone who absolutely LOVES to do it.
Flip flop this situation as a good thought experiment. How long do you think he would stay with you if you said "Yeah, I just really don't give blow jobs." I bet he'd split so fast your head would turn. You need a different guy and this guy is NOT considerate.
In general I agree you need to get better at having conversations about sex. Have these conversations away from the bedroom and fully clothed. However I don't think a conversation with him will change anything, it may be good practice.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:50 AM on June 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty unimpressed with this guy; good lovers ask their partners what they need if they're not having orgasms... I'm assuming you're not faking them. But if you think he's worth training, and talking about it with words is super hard to muster, physical redirection during sex might help. When you start getting going, move his hand to your crotch. If he stops playing with it too quickly and moves toward his preferred activity, say "wait... I'm not ready yet" and either move his hand back, tell him what to do with his hand, or ask him to go down on you. Repeat as necessary. This is reasonably effective for one night stands; my preference in relationships is to talk about it more directly (ideally this is a fun conversation!) but I know that can be really hard when you're shy about it.
In certain positions you can also move his hand to your clit during intercourse, or use your own hand, which usually gives them the hint and they step up.
A previous commenter said that only coming through oral is overly limiting. I disagree with that, and I'm 39 and have had a lot of great sex and it's very rare I can come any other way. But with this particular dude it sounds like it could be a problem, and you'll need to decide if you're okay with him opting out (his stance is an unusual one by the way; most men expect to provide oral) and if it's possible for you to have a good sex life without it (I couldn't but maybe you're more adaptable).
posted by metasarah at 12:28 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
In certain positions you can also move his hand to your clit during intercourse, or use your own hand, which usually gives them the hint and they step up.
A previous commenter said that only coming through oral is overly limiting. I disagree with that, and I'm 39 and have had a lot of great sex and it's very rare I can come any other way. But with this particular dude it sounds like it could be a problem, and you'll need to decide if you're okay with him opting out (his stance is an unusual one by the way; most men expect to provide oral) and if it's possible for you to have a good sex life without it (I couldn't but maybe you're more adaptable).
posted by metasarah at 12:28 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's not complaining to ask your partner for what you want in bed, nor is it emasculating. Most people who talk about sex during sex make it fun and sexy. It be scary but ultimately fulfilling. He may be unsatisfied too but you seem rather timid so he could be afraid he'll scare or offend you as well. However, you can't avoid it. If you find that your so afraid of confrontation and drift from one bad relationship to another then that may be a signal that you're not ready for a relationship let alone marriage because those things occasionally require confrontation. Plus, you seem like a perfect target for abusive relationships so it may worth holding off until you can hold your own.
Also, it sounds like you're using your fear of confrontation as a crutch. Crutches help you hobble not flourish and run. Your boyfriend sounds like a nice enough guy is there a reason you're so afraid? If so you need to find out why. You're sexual dissatisfaction isn't going to get any better unless you at least bring it up. You can't expect him to read you're mind and vice versa. In fact if you don't plan on speaking to him then you'll have asked this question for nothing because it's the only solution.
That said, an easy way to do this may be to watch a sexy movie (50 Shades of Grey?) and use that as an aphrodisiac and/or jumping point for that discussion. It will be a little scary at first, it is for all of us but I think part of doing adult things (sex) is being able to deal with the things that come with them (talking about sex).
posted by CosmicSeeker42 at 12:36 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, it sounds like you're using your fear of confrontation as a crutch. Crutches help you hobble not flourish and run. Your boyfriend sounds like a nice enough guy is there a reason you're so afraid? If so you need to find out why. You're sexual dissatisfaction isn't going to get any better unless you at least bring it up. You can't expect him to read you're mind and vice versa. In fact if you don't plan on speaking to him then you'll have asked this question for nothing because it's the only solution.
That said, an easy way to do this may be to watch a sexy movie (50 Shades of Grey?) and use that as an aphrodisiac and/or jumping point for that discussion. It will be a little scary at first, it is for all of us but I think part of doing adult things (sex) is being able to deal with the things that come with them (talking about sex).
posted by CosmicSeeker42 at 12:36 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you can get buy-in, here's a little something on the mechanics. But as Dan says, it is required...
posted by j_curiouser at 1:00 PM on June 3, 2015
Don't get me wrong, ladies. I am all for cunnilingus. Straight men, in my opinion, are obligated to provide it. I'm as pro-cunnilingus as a gay man can get...(links nsfw)
posted by j_curiouser at 1:00 PM on June 3, 2015
Maybe my first boyfriend spoiled me.
Nope! Your current boyfriend is starving you. This is not a normal thing you're expected to put up with.
posted by Juliet Banana at 1:15 PM on June 3, 2015 [10 favorites]
Nope! Your current boyfriend is starving you. This is not a normal thing you're expected to put up with.
posted by Juliet Banana at 1:15 PM on June 3, 2015 [10 favorites]
Bring up sometime when you're not already having sex. The discussion might lead to sex -- but don't start having sex and then bring it up --
posted by vitabellosi at 1:50 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by vitabellosi at 1:50 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
He is kind and intellectually curious
This is a good sign, actually. Maybe he'll consider it an intellectual riddle to find another way to make you orgasm, or take it as an intellectual challenge to find a way to enjoy giving oral!
I hope you bring it up, and I hope you two can be playful about it, rather than taking it on as a joyless chore.
posted by vitabellosi at 1:53 PM on June 3, 2015
This is a good sign, actually. Maybe he'll consider it an intellectual riddle to find another way to make you orgasm, or take it as an intellectual challenge to find a way to enjoy giving oral!
I hope you bring it up, and I hope you two can be playful about it, rather than taking it on as a joyless chore.
posted by vitabellosi at 1:53 PM on June 3, 2015
Maybe give him this book? She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman
posted by Jacqueline at 2:31 PM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 2:31 PM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: If you really like this guy then you'll have a conversation with him about sex before you decide whether or not to break up with him. It is nice to have a partner who just knows what you want, but I am going to guess this guy is not telepathic and does not know what you're thinking. Ideally he would be checking on whether or not you're having an orgasm. But if you have been having sex for months and have not complained or had a discussion at all about technique, then he is likely assuming everything is cool beans.
posted by Anonymous at 2:45 PM on June 3, 2015
posted by Anonymous at 2:45 PM on June 3, 2015
I said, in response to his query, that "I only come from oral," yet, despite that explicit description of my preferences, he has never ever tried doing it, not even once, so clearly he is NOT into giving.
This jumped out at me. As other people have mentioned above, maybe he just spaced out for a second or was thinking about something else. It seems to me like you should bring this up again. Don't try to assume, based on this one exchange, that he knows you want oral. Revisit it, whether in bed or out of it, but at least give him another chance to hear you.
The best way to improve your personal sexual satisfaction with a partner is to learn to ask for what you want. It can be tough at first, but with a little practice your orgasms will far outweigh your shyness.
posted by bendy at 4:27 PM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
This jumped out at me. As other people have mentioned above, maybe he just spaced out for a second or was thinking about something else. It seems to me like you should bring this up again. Don't try to assume, based on this one exchange, that he knows you want oral. Revisit it, whether in bed or out of it, but at least give him another chance to hear you.
The best way to improve your personal sexual satisfaction with a partner is to learn to ask for what you want. It can be tough at first, but with a little practice your orgasms will far outweigh your shyness.
posted by bendy at 4:27 PM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
He is wonderfully kind and considerate of me...
Unfortunately, I beg to differ if he is so unsatisfying sexually. If he's as wonderful as you think, he won't be emasculated by you expressing your sexual wants and needs - he'll be thrilled that he can satisfy you, and more.
Sex isn't a trivial add-on to a relationship, nor is it the man's perogative in one to have fulfilling sex.
I agree you can bring this up delicately, but it must be raised if you want to stay in this relationship. It's not selfish to talk about these things, in fact, it's mature and necessary. Who knows, he might be grateful! I don't think there's ever the 'right' time and place to bring this stuff up, but to open a conversation with something along the lines of, 'Can we please talk about ways in which I can enjoy sex as much as you?' Spoken by a sexually confident woman who knows what turns her on.
And you may not need me to say it, but, sex is about two people!
posted by NatalieWood at 4:57 PM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately, I beg to differ if he is so unsatisfying sexually. If he's as wonderful as you think, he won't be emasculated by you expressing your sexual wants and needs - he'll be thrilled that he can satisfy you, and more.
Sex isn't a trivial add-on to a relationship, nor is it the man's perogative in one to have fulfilling sex.
I agree you can bring this up delicately, but it must be raised if you want to stay in this relationship. It's not selfish to talk about these things, in fact, it's mature and necessary. Who knows, he might be grateful! I don't think there's ever the 'right' time and place to bring this stuff up, but to open a conversation with something along the lines of, 'Can we please talk about ways in which I can enjoy sex as much as you?' Spoken by a sexually confident woman who knows what turns her on.
And you may not need me to say it, but, sex is about two people!
posted by NatalieWood at 4:57 PM on June 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
There are a lot of things you can kinda compromise on and work around and ignore and go off and do your own thing and maybe remind your partner of a little more than seems reasonable and perhaps even consider a bit of a disappointment through a long term relationship.
"Not doing stuff you enjoy during sex, at all" is really not one you want on the list.
posted by ead at 5:03 PM on June 3, 2015
"Not doing stuff you enjoy during sex, at all" is really not one you want on the list.
posted by ead at 5:03 PM on June 3, 2015
I had to have a conversation about this. It was awful. But what drove me forward is growing frustration and annoyance, there was a growing voice in my head that was contemptuous and eye-rolling. This was going to kill the relationship.
I asked him softly, after he said how great sex was for him, how he thought I felt about our sex life? It wasn't supposed to be a trick, but I had no idea how to say 'this isn't fucking working dude!' or otherwise give way to anger. He was totally flummoxxed. Either his whole life women had endured and suppressed their desires or interests, or they'd been great at being womanly support creatures. [I just can't imagine a guy would go through sex multiple times for months and not have an orgasm, without a conversation being had.] It went really badly, defensively and aggressively, like I'd exploded a bomb. I just listened and he didn't listen to me. I didn't do any rescue statements, and tried to keep calm saying that sexual excitement and release was really important to me, is it important to him? The conversation is important and I want to have it calmly so we can have great intimacy, like we do in other areas.
It took two days for him to come back to a conversation with me and ask calmly how I felt about our sex life. He asked me what I would like and apologised for railing and sulking.
But ah, you know I don't know if it got that much better, despite the conversation and the ensuing experimentations that lasted a few days before he went back to usual. I just don't think he knows how to make love with a woman. Sure, we - the women who have bedded him - could all teach him, take responsibility for our sexual happiness, but there are loads of reasons why women don't do that. I'm only getting into the hang of it now in my mid forties. A guy who doesn't want to lick you or get up close to your erogenous zones or clitoris is, in my opinion, not a desirable partner, and emotionally speaking, isn't capable of loving all of me. Being with someone who is really into it now, I could never tolerate that kind of distance again.
And, I know others have said this, but a guy with whom you can't have a conversation about sex, who hasn't got the self-reflective ability to think about this highly important aspect of intimacy, is someone with whom you can't express your authentic /honest self. Is that really intimacy?
He sounds like a great conversation partner and friend and it is okay to say 'I love our conversations and our time together, so it's really hard to say this, but I can't see us being partners long term. We are in the early stages of intimacy and the sex needs to be more fulfilling for me. I need to have breathless kisses, maybe kisses that last for hours, I need to share orgasms with my partner, foreplay, enthusiastic licking, variety and excitement. I've found it hard to ask for, and hard to talk about because it doesn't seem an open subject with us, and I need it to be.'
posted by honey-barbara at 7:05 PM on June 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
I asked him softly, after he said how great sex was for him, how he thought I felt about our sex life? It wasn't supposed to be a trick, but I had no idea how to say 'this isn't fucking working dude!' or otherwise give way to anger. He was totally flummoxxed. Either his whole life women had endured and suppressed their desires or interests, or they'd been great at being womanly support creatures. [I just can't imagine a guy would go through sex multiple times for months and not have an orgasm, without a conversation being had.] It went really badly, defensively and aggressively, like I'd exploded a bomb. I just listened and he didn't listen to me. I didn't do any rescue statements, and tried to keep calm saying that sexual excitement and release was really important to me, is it important to him? The conversation is important and I want to have it calmly so we can have great intimacy, like we do in other areas.
It took two days for him to come back to a conversation with me and ask calmly how I felt about our sex life. He asked me what I would like and apologised for railing and sulking.
But ah, you know I don't know if it got that much better, despite the conversation and the ensuing experimentations that lasted a few days before he went back to usual. I just don't think he knows how to make love with a woman. Sure, we - the women who have bedded him - could all teach him, take responsibility for our sexual happiness, but there are loads of reasons why women don't do that. I'm only getting into the hang of it now in my mid forties. A guy who doesn't want to lick you or get up close to your erogenous zones or clitoris is, in my opinion, not a desirable partner, and emotionally speaking, isn't capable of loving all of me. Being with someone who is really into it now, I could never tolerate that kind of distance again.
And, I know others have said this, but a guy with whom you can't have a conversation about sex, who hasn't got the self-reflective ability to think about this highly important aspect of intimacy, is someone with whom you can't express your authentic /honest self. Is that really intimacy?
He sounds like a great conversation partner and friend and it is okay to say 'I love our conversations and our time together, so it's really hard to say this, but I can't see us being partners long term. We are in the early stages of intimacy and the sex needs to be more fulfilling for me. I need to have breathless kisses, maybe kisses that last for hours, I need to share orgasms with my partner, foreplay, enthusiastic licking, variety and excitement. I've found it hard to ask for, and hard to talk about because it doesn't seem an open subject with us, and I need it to be.'
posted by honey-barbara at 7:05 PM on June 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
I don't know, but I think people are way too much on your side here.
You say "he doesn't seem to care that I am not having ANY orgasms with him" but also "he doesn't even realize that I'm unhappy because I am too wimpy and unassertive to voice a word of complaint."
And then you say that at the beginning he admitted he would have to learn what you'd like and even asked what you liked, and then tried some things he must have thought you'd like but then stopped because you were "unresponsive." Unresponsive is not helpful!
And you mentioned one time, three months ago that you can only come from oral, and still he hasn't gone down on you. Of course, in that same conversation, he mentioned that he's not into receiving oral, but you "give it to him without his asking for it" (which, why would he ask for it if he's not into it?).
Sorry, but I think you have to womb up, girl! It doesn't have to be a confrontation, but honestly, I think you dropped the ball on this. I may be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you are being totally passive and non-communicative. For all you know he is thinking, "I guess she's not really into sex, I tried my moves at the beginning and they didn't seem to work. We aren't really doing much, she never even comes, but SURELY if she didn't like things she would say something. I mean, I told her right at the beginning that I wanted to learn how to get her off and she hasn't asked for anything more than I've given so, maybe orgasm just isn't that important to her."
Tell him what you want. Don't overthink it. Don't ascribe terrible motives to the way he is having sex with you right now. Don't assume he hates oral. Don't assume anything. My style, personally, is to ask for what I want while we're having sex. I'm confrontation shy, too, and talking about my feelings and what I want or need makes me queasy. But endorphins give me courage.
posted by looli at 8:44 PM on June 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
You say "he doesn't seem to care that I am not having ANY orgasms with him" but also "he doesn't even realize that I'm unhappy because I am too wimpy and unassertive to voice a word of complaint."
And then you say that at the beginning he admitted he would have to learn what you'd like and even asked what you liked, and then tried some things he must have thought you'd like but then stopped because you were "unresponsive." Unresponsive is not helpful!
And you mentioned one time, three months ago that you can only come from oral, and still he hasn't gone down on you. Of course, in that same conversation, he mentioned that he's not into receiving oral, but you "give it to him without his asking for it" (which, why would he ask for it if he's not into it?).
Sorry, but I think you have to womb up, girl! It doesn't have to be a confrontation, but honestly, I think you dropped the ball on this. I may be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you are being totally passive and non-communicative. For all you know he is thinking, "I guess she's not really into sex, I tried my moves at the beginning and they didn't seem to work. We aren't really doing much, she never even comes, but SURELY if she didn't like things she would say something. I mean, I told her right at the beginning that I wanted to learn how to get her off and she hasn't asked for anything more than I've given so, maybe orgasm just isn't that important to her."
Tell him what you want. Don't overthink it. Don't ascribe terrible motives to the way he is having sex with you right now. Don't assume he hates oral. Don't assume anything. My style, personally, is to ask for what I want while we're having sex. I'm confrontation shy, too, and talking about my feelings and what I want or need makes me queasy. But endorphins give me courage.
posted by looli at 8:44 PM on June 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
I honestly don't know whose behavior is more ridiculous here -- yours or his. I would definitely not date someone who was completely uninterested in my sexual fulfillment. Yet, at the same time, you ALSO are completely uninterested in your own sexual fulfillment.. Why do I say this? Because you've decided to continue dating someone who doesn't get you off and you refuse to talk about it! So, maybe deep down inside you do want sexual pleasure, but evidently you don't want it enough to actually get it.
You got lucky with the boyfriend who was good in bed. In the future, you're going to have to talk to get what you want. And you're going to have to decide that sexual chemistry is non-negotiable for any future partner.
Here's a plan of action:
1. Break up with him. Seriously. Don't even try to work this out. Buh-bye. Exit gracefully stage left.
2. Find out why it's so hard for you to prioritize your sexuality and express your sexual desires. Maybe work with a therapist and/or read up on sex. You're going to have to get over whatever your qualms are and you're probably going to have to do significant work to figure out what your deal is.
3. Related to #2 -- consider why you're willing to actually get naked with someone yet unwilling to TALK to them about what you're doing and what you want to do. Understand that any good, healthy relationship is going to require direct communication. That's how adults interact with each other in romance. Even when you find red hot chemistry with another person in the future, you're going to have to talk about sex.
4. Redefine "Mr. Right" .. because let me tell you, your definition is way off. Mr. Right will not be the guy who's wonderful except for the fact that he doesn't get you off and doesn't care. No, friend, that's called Mr. Very, Very, Very Wrong.
posted by Gray Skies at 10:25 PM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
You got lucky with the boyfriend who was good in bed. In the future, you're going to have to talk to get what you want. And you're going to have to decide that sexual chemistry is non-negotiable for any future partner.
Here's a plan of action:
1. Break up with him. Seriously. Don't even try to work this out. Buh-bye. Exit gracefully stage left.
2. Find out why it's so hard for you to prioritize your sexuality and express your sexual desires. Maybe work with a therapist and/or read up on sex. You're going to have to get over whatever your qualms are and you're probably going to have to do significant work to figure out what your deal is.
3. Related to #2 -- consider why you're willing to actually get naked with someone yet unwilling to TALK to them about what you're doing and what you want to do. Understand that any good, healthy relationship is going to require direct communication. That's how adults interact with each other in romance. Even when you find red hot chemistry with another person in the future, you're going to have to talk about sex.
4. Redefine "Mr. Right" .. because let me tell you, your definition is way off. Mr. Right will not be the guy who's wonderful except for the fact that he doesn't get you off and doesn't care. No, friend, that's called Mr. Very, Very, Very Wrong.
posted by Gray Skies at 10:25 PM on June 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Print this thread and leave it in full view for him to read
posted by Kwadeng at 1:21 AM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Kwadeng at 1:21 AM on June 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maybe he's an arsehole who doesn't care about your needs. Maybe he's blissfully ignorant but would respond well to suggestions. Maybe he's tried but not been able to interpret your very small/unassertive signals. You won't know for sure until you try the common factor in all these answers: tell him what you want and need.
Start planning how you'll do this, and let his response guide your reaction. If there's no change, dump him. If he makes a real effort, persevere. If he needs more signals, talk about your current reactions and what they mean so you can both build on them to create your own shorthand signals for things like "wooooo fuck yeah" or "I appreciate your loving efforts but this isn't working for me today so when you're ready I'm gonna change positions" or "this is nice but I need to pause for a second cos the sheets got wedged in my butt-crack". All of which can be mistaken for each other in the heat of the moment if you're not the chatty type.
posted by harriet vane at 8:46 AM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Start planning how you'll do this, and let his response guide your reaction. If there's no change, dump him. If he makes a real effort, persevere. If he needs more signals, talk about your current reactions and what they mean so you can both build on them to create your own shorthand signals for things like "wooooo fuck yeah" or "I appreciate your loving efforts but this isn't working for me today so when you're ready I'm gonna change positions" or "this is nice but I need to pause for a second cos the sheets got wedged in my butt-crack". All of which can be mistaken for each other in the heat of the moment if you're not the chatty type.
posted by harriet vane at 8:46 AM on June 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
To me, he sounds uptight and repressed about sex. He's got no curiosity about the process or your responses as an individual, he'd rather cuddle, he ignores suggestions.
Whatever hangups he had are probably way too deep-seated for you to fix or cure with a conversation or two. Nothing is going to get better unless he can drastically change the way he thinks about sex.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:28 AM on June 4, 2015
Whatever hangups he had are probably way too deep-seated for you to fix or cure with a conversation or two. Nothing is going to get better unless he can drastically change the way he thinks about sex.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:28 AM on June 4, 2015
It seems as though you are hoping there is some kind of middle ground between indicating what you want or avoiding communication and running away. I really don't think that there is. There are degrees by which you could indicate your desires, ranging from straight up saying "I'm not happy with this situation, and here's how I want it to change" to only focusing on the positive "You know what would be so hot? If you XYZ right now!" to hinting and trying to guide him to do things in bed without actually saying what you want.
Here are what I see as most likely outcomes, depending on where in that spectrum you decide to shoot for (I'm really hoping you don't just decide to run away - use this opportunity to practice something you really need to learn! If you care so much about this guy surely the relationship is worth working on):
- Hinting and trying to guide him to do things in bed without saying what you want: most likely outcome is that you will end up really frustrated and he will not understand what you want. In a situation where you are this far apart to begin with, the chances of him being able to naturally learn to be good in bed for you just by you trying to guide a hand in the right direction or moan louder if he's getting warmer/quieter if colder are extremely low. Really don't recommend this.
- Focusing on the positive: "It would be really sexy if you XYZ!" I suspect there are very few men who wouldn't respond well to this. In fact, I think most people of either gender get kind of excited if you tell them that you think something that's relatively easy for them to do would be really hot and/or sexy to you, at a time when they want to get hot and sexy with you. I think he'd probably give a shot at doing what you want, and you could probably do a little more gentle suggesting "yes, just like that" or "faster", "right there", all that sort of thing. I think this could be a good option for you. The only thing you have to keep in mind, if you do this, is that you are not allowed to be angry and frustrated with him if he doesn't naturally get exactly what and how you want him to do things right away. When you keep your requests vague and then just try to reward good behavior with positive responses and discourage bad behavior by "unresponsiveness", you're making your partner stab around in the dark a lot. It's kind of hard for him to focus on doing things he probably doesn't have a lot of experience with and guess on the best techniques, and at the same time to try to pay close attention to the intensity of your response to that degree. It sounds like you'd prefer to wait until he does the right thing and to react with great enthusiasm at that point, but if you have to wait for him to guess and fumble his way there, you might be waiting a long time (or he might get tired of guessing before he figures it out). I want to emphasize how unfair it is for you to be angry in your head that he hasn't done something you haven't directly asked him to do. Why are you assuming he knows things you've never told him? His prior partners may've bene just as communication-avoidant as you are. They might have told him that they enjoy sex just as much even if they don't come (and it might have been true....). Do you really think all men who have had sex know anything about clitorises, their location and how they work, even about their very existence? Did you know everything about how a penis works and feels without ever being told? Even if you were a natural-born penis prodigy, you still aren't going to know what feels good for any individual partner unless they tell you, right? Wouldn't you be upset to find out that he thinks your blowjob technique is terrible, but he never mentioned it and he's having orgasms by fantasizing about something else while you're doing it? I think you probably would! But you'd want to know!
- Direct route: "I'm not happy with the way things have been going. I really want things to be different because I want this relationship to work, and so far I haven't done a good job of communicating my needs to you. I'd like to try to change and improve on that now." By far, this is the most likely to get you the quickest and most effective results, because not only does it involve directly communicating what you want him to do, it also conveys the urgency of the request. If you leave out that part of the conversation, you need to give him more leeway in terms of time and specifics on how he improves, maybe give him at least 2 separate chances with different variations on a similar conversation before you decide he's never going to get it and you move on. I kind of agree with the poster above who said that they suspect you just don't want to know how he would react if you communicated with him directly because you're afraid that will mean the end of the relationship and you will have to come to terms with him not being the great guy you thought, and that's going to hurt. Well, I really hope you press through the fear and figure this situation out so you can either live happily ever after or stop wasting your time with something that isn't going to work out!
p.s. real men love it and find it such a relief when women communicate what they want in bed!
posted by treehorn+bunny at 2:00 AM on June 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Here are what I see as most likely outcomes, depending on where in that spectrum you decide to shoot for (I'm really hoping you don't just decide to run away - use this opportunity to practice something you really need to learn! If you care so much about this guy surely the relationship is worth working on):
- Hinting and trying to guide him to do things in bed without saying what you want: most likely outcome is that you will end up really frustrated and he will not understand what you want. In a situation where you are this far apart to begin with, the chances of him being able to naturally learn to be good in bed for you just by you trying to guide a hand in the right direction or moan louder if he's getting warmer/quieter if colder are extremely low. Really don't recommend this.
- Focusing on the positive: "It would be really sexy if you XYZ!" I suspect there are very few men who wouldn't respond well to this. In fact, I think most people of either gender get kind of excited if you tell them that you think something that's relatively easy for them to do would be really hot and/or sexy to you, at a time when they want to get hot and sexy with you. I think he'd probably give a shot at doing what you want, and you could probably do a little more gentle suggesting "yes, just like that" or "faster", "right there", all that sort of thing. I think this could be a good option for you. The only thing you have to keep in mind, if you do this, is that you are not allowed to be angry and frustrated with him if he doesn't naturally get exactly what and how you want him to do things right away. When you keep your requests vague and then just try to reward good behavior with positive responses and discourage bad behavior by "unresponsiveness", you're making your partner stab around in the dark a lot. It's kind of hard for him to focus on doing things he probably doesn't have a lot of experience with and guess on the best techniques, and at the same time to try to pay close attention to the intensity of your response to that degree. It sounds like you'd prefer to wait until he does the right thing and to react with great enthusiasm at that point, but if you have to wait for him to guess and fumble his way there, you might be waiting a long time (or he might get tired of guessing before he figures it out). I want to emphasize how unfair it is for you to be angry in your head that he hasn't done something you haven't directly asked him to do. Why are you assuming he knows things you've never told him? His prior partners may've bene just as communication-avoidant as you are. They might have told him that they enjoy sex just as much even if they don't come (and it might have been true....). Do you really think all men who have had sex know anything about clitorises, their location and how they work, even about their very existence? Did you know everything about how a penis works and feels without ever being told? Even if you were a natural-born penis prodigy, you still aren't going to know what feels good for any individual partner unless they tell you, right? Wouldn't you be upset to find out that he thinks your blowjob technique is terrible, but he never mentioned it and he's having orgasms by fantasizing about something else while you're doing it? I think you probably would! But you'd want to know!
- Direct route: "I'm not happy with the way things have been going. I really want things to be different because I want this relationship to work, and so far I haven't done a good job of communicating my needs to you. I'd like to try to change and improve on that now." By far, this is the most likely to get you the quickest and most effective results, because not only does it involve directly communicating what you want him to do, it also conveys the urgency of the request. If you leave out that part of the conversation, you need to give him more leeway in terms of time and specifics on how he improves, maybe give him at least 2 separate chances with different variations on a similar conversation before you decide he's never going to get it and you move on. I kind of agree with the poster above who said that they suspect you just don't want to know how he would react if you communicated with him directly because you're afraid that will mean the end of the relationship and you will have to come to terms with him not being the great guy you thought, and that's going to hurt. Well, I really hope you press through the fear and figure this situation out so you can either live happily ever after or stop wasting your time with something that isn't going to work out!
p.s. real men love it and find it such a relief when women communicate what they want in bed!
posted by treehorn+bunny at 2:00 AM on June 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
I definitely agree with _we put our faith in Blast Hardcheese_, in that this - talking about sex - is a skill you will need. It makes sense to at least try talking with him about this. It'll be awkward. It'll be uncomfortable. But you need to learn, so you might as well start now.
You might very well get what you want now, which would be great! Another added incentive, though, is the fact that your body will change through the years. What feels great now may not be what you need in 10 years. And if you're with the same partner for 10, 20, 30 years, you need to be able to say that - "Hey, X used to be great, but it's not working so well for me now - can we try Y instead?" Or, one of you will have some sort of physical issue, and you'll need to figure out a workaround. The ability to talk about these things honestly makes things so much easier in that case.
Someone has to take the first step in fixing this, it might as well be you.
posted by RogueTech at 9:15 PM on June 6, 2015
You might very well get what you want now, which would be great! Another added incentive, though, is the fact that your body will change through the years. What feels great now may not be what you need in 10 years. And if you're with the same partner for 10, 20, 30 years, you need to be able to say that - "Hey, X used to be great, but it's not working so well for me now - can we try Y instead?" Or, one of you will have some sort of physical issue, and you'll need to figure out a workaround. The ability to talk about these things honestly makes things so much easier in that case.
Someone has to take the first step in fixing this, it might as well be you.
posted by RogueTech at 9:15 PM on June 6, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
I sure as hell couldn’t.
As Amy Poehler said “If you don’t eat pussy keep walking”
and yes this is the status quo.
posted by French Fry at 7:52 AM on June 3, 2015 [60 favorites]