Dealing with post-tenancy dramas
May 26, 2015 4:00 AM Subscribe
So I find myself in a bit of an awkward position with a former friend regarding a tenancy I arranged for them and having to consider what options to take.
Having a property available some time back (this is the UK), this friend was looking for a place to stay and the mutual arrangement seemed to be good for both parties. Plus, there was substantial reduction on the rent as a gesture by myself. There was a tenancy agreement but no deposit arranged (another friendly yet misguided gesture on my part).
Jump forward several months and this friend eventually moved out to live abroad. On leaving they failed to clean the property to a good standard. Plus, the final month's rent wasn't paid. Outside of that there were some other associated debts where I had helped them pay some bills a few months prior.
We stayed on good terms with promises of a payment schedule being set up to clear the debt. However, all these planned schedules never got off the starting blocks and promises of payments by specific dates were regularly passed.
Now it's 6 months later and my patience has been exhausted. What options can I take here, if any. Or do I just resign myself to accepting that this is a bad debt that will never be resolved?
Having a property available some time back (this is the UK), this friend was looking for a place to stay and the mutual arrangement seemed to be good for both parties. Plus, there was substantial reduction on the rent as a gesture by myself. There was a tenancy agreement but no deposit arranged (another friendly yet misguided gesture on my part).
Jump forward several months and this friend eventually moved out to live abroad. On leaving they failed to clean the property to a good standard. Plus, the final month's rent wasn't paid. Outside of that there were some other associated debts where I had helped them pay some bills a few months prior.
We stayed on good terms with promises of a payment schedule being set up to clear the debt. However, all these planned schedules never got off the starting blocks and promises of payments by specific dates were regularly passed.
Now it's 6 months later and my patience has been exhausted. What options can I take here, if any. Or do I just resign myself to accepting that this is a bad debt that will never be resolved?
Sorry, I missed that they owe the tenancy money to a third party, who is not you.
Er, even more awkward.
posted by Elysum at 4:20 AM on May 26, 2015
Er, even more awkward.
posted by Elysum at 4:20 AM on May 26, 2015
If you want to stay on friendly terms with these people, your only option will be to accept that you'll never be repaid for the overdue rent or cleaning/repair costs or associated debts you helped them pay --- on the other hand, why in the world would you want to remain friendly?
If this was your family, I could see writing off the money as a bad debt and promising yourself you'll never help them out again (which is what I had to do with one of my siblings, to maintain the peace); but with a so-called "friend" who'd take advantage like this I'd see about legal options: do you have anything in writing, even emails from them saying they'll pay you? A lease stating how long their lease was for and how they were required to leave the place, the amount of their monthly rent and when it was due, anything about those associated debts?
But then again, paying for a lawyer might just be more of your money and time down the drain!
posted by easily confused at 4:21 AM on May 26, 2015
If this was your family, I could see writing off the money as a bad debt and promising yourself you'll never help them out again (which is what I had to do with one of my siblings, to maintain the peace); but with a so-called "friend" who'd take advantage like this I'd see about legal options: do you have anything in writing, even emails from them saying they'll pay you? A lease stating how long their lease was for and how they were required to leave the place, the amount of their monthly rent and when it was due, anything about those associated debts?
But then again, paying for a lawyer might just be more of your money and time down the drain!
posted by easily confused at 4:21 AM on May 26, 2015
Sucks. But if nothing's in writing, then most likely the only thing you could press would be the last month rent based on the tenancy agreement. Even the cleaning costs would be difficult to press after the fact unless you thoroughly documented the state of the property. If you have *something* in writing about the payment schedule, that could make a difference.
Do they have any mutual friends who can intercede with them to be reasonable? Otherwise, you may need to write this one off.
posted by frumiousb at 4:33 AM on May 26, 2015
Do they have any mutual friends who can intercede with them to be reasonable? Otherwise, you may need to write this one off.
posted by frumiousb at 4:33 AM on May 26, 2015
The OP has the tenancy agreement so there is enough in writing.
posted by ellieBOA at 4:39 AM on May 26, 2015
posted by ellieBOA at 4:39 AM on May 26, 2015
I wouldn't think the tenancy agreement would cover the other associated debts or (necessarily) the cleaning bill. It isn't the UK, but when I briefly rented my apartment in Amsterdam it was explained to me the reason for the security deposit was that it was very very difficult to press for damages or improper cleaning after the tenant has left. But I suppose it depends what is in the tenancy agreement, you're right.
posted by frumiousb at 4:49 AM on May 26, 2015
posted by frumiousb at 4:49 AM on May 26, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks for the comments so far. Yes, the tenancy agreement will only cover stuff like rent and (possibly) cleaning costs if I decided to push in that direction. In other words, I may not legally be able to recover the loan amounts, but I could probably make a demand for the costs of cleaning which could amount to the same.
My approach to this has been friendly, but maintaining pressure on the topic of the debt. It's easier to get a settlement on that basis I feel. However, time has moved on and I feel that sterner stuff is needed. What I'm concerned about is the other party using this as an excuse to pull up the drawbridge.
There is a paper trail detailing arrangements to pay the debt which could be brought to bear in the instance of any legal action being taken. I'm concerned however that legal action will, as said, just result in any returns being swallowed by costs.
posted by panboi at 5:05 AM on May 26, 2015
My approach to this has been friendly, but maintaining pressure on the topic of the debt. It's easier to get a settlement on that basis I feel. However, time has moved on and I feel that sterner stuff is needed. What I'm concerned about is the other party using this as an excuse to pull up the drawbridge.
There is a paper trail detailing arrangements to pay the debt which could be brought to bear in the instance of any legal action being taken. I'm concerned however that legal action will, as said, just result in any returns being swallowed by costs.
posted by panboi at 5:05 AM on May 26, 2015
On the other hand, beginning legal action might just make them pay up --- they might prefer to actually settle out of court instead of having a judgement from a landlord against them, which could have the effect of making it possibly harder for them to rent from someone else. And, too, they might be trying to 'run out the clock' on this debt --- is there any kind of statute of limitations you aren't aware of, that could mean you aren't allowed to even file a lawsuit after x amount of time?
At the very least, try getting a lawyer to write them a stiff letter, telling them that unless they pay in full you will be filing a lawsuit.
posted by easily confused at 5:22 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
At the very least, try getting a lawyer to write them a stiff letter, telling them that unless they pay in full you will be filing a lawsuit.
posted by easily confused at 5:22 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was in a similar situation a while back with a friend and former tenant who owed me a bunch of money. What I discovered pretty quickly is that the friendship is void. The situation has destroyed it, it's not coming back. Accept that and your situation becomes a lot clearer.
A couple of people have asked whether you want to stay on friendly terms with this person. Flip the question: do they want to remain on friendly terms with you? If they did, wouldn't they have made at least some effort to pay you the money, or at the very least to clean the property?
Legal advice is difficult without knowing where they are living now, but I'd suggest contacting them to say that unless the debt is repayed by [date] you will go to the courts to get a binding payment order that will be enforced when they re-enter the United Kingdom, or something along those lines. I'm assuming they're a UK native and that this would make their life difficult in future.
posted by Hogshead at 5:28 AM on May 26, 2015 [8 favorites]
A couple of people have asked whether you want to stay on friendly terms with this person. Flip the question: do they want to remain on friendly terms with you? If they did, wouldn't they have made at least some effort to pay you the money, or at the very least to clean the property?
Legal advice is difficult without knowing where they are living now, but I'd suggest contacting them to say that unless the debt is repayed by [date] you will go to the courts to get a binding payment order that will be enforced when they re-enter the United Kingdom, or something along those lines. I'm assuming they're a UK native and that this would make their life difficult in future.
posted by Hogshead at 5:28 AM on May 26, 2015 [8 favorites]
I had this friend. She went to live in an ashram in India, leaving thousands of pounds worth of debt. Of course money isn't very spiritual, so she took great offence at people ruining her aura by asking her to pay them back.
I think you've probably lost your money regardless of whether you retain the friendship - they haven't "forgotten" the previous deadlines, they're blithely ignoring them and trying to make you feel bad for chasing them by playing the "friends don't take friends to small claims court" card. There is also the implied threat that if you're mean to them they'll flounce off and never pay you - but since they aren't paying you anyway, fuck that.
It's probably worth having one major "I'm really disappointed in you" lecture - I have known that to work on occasion when the person was just a monumentally lazy flake rather than a flat out con artist.
If they still don't pay I would resort to "Jane is a manipulative thief" badmouthing among your other friends - these people rely on everyone being too polite to cause a scene, but frankly people like this deserve a bit of social embarrassment.
posted by tinkletown at 5:30 AM on May 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think you've probably lost your money regardless of whether you retain the friendship - they haven't "forgotten" the previous deadlines, they're blithely ignoring them and trying to make you feel bad for chasing them by playing the "friends don't take friends to small claims court" card. There is also the implied threat that if you're mean to them they'll flounce off and never pay you - but since they aren't paying you anyway, fuck that.
It's probably worth having one major "I'm really disappointed in you" lecture - I have known that to work on occasion when the person was just a monumentally lazy flake rather than a flat out con artist.
If they still don't pay I would resort to "Jane is a manipulative thief" badmouthing among your other friends - these people rely on everyone being too polite to cause a scene, but frankly people like this deserve a bit of social embarrassment.
posted by tinkletown at 5:30 AM on May 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
"I'm sorry to say that I'm unable to carry this debt any longer. Based on our earlier payment agreement the total you owe is X. You'll need to send me that amount by June 30. I don't want to make this a legal matter but you're not giving me much of a choice here."
posted by in278s at 11:21 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by in278s at 11:21 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: You're on shaky legal ground if you're going to take the money for an unrelated debt, lie that it's for cleaning, and write all about it on here.
Whenever dealing with friends in any business arrangement, you can often let some things slide as possibly not worth the hassle. In this instance it was a breach of tenancy agreement that resulted in an heavy duty clean of the property. That included deep cleaning of all surfaces, removal of sacks of rubbish, attempting to remove a persistent odour and other entertaining activities that took about a week to achieve.
Now on the basis that an unsecured debt might be unrecoverable, one covered by a tenancy agreement might be. To jump to the conclusion that it's a "lie" is a hell of a jump.
posted by panboi at 12:08 PM on May 26, 2015
Whenever dealing with friends in any business arrangement, you can often let some things slide as possibly not worth the hassle. In this instance it was a breach of tenancy agreement that resulted in an heavy duty clean of the property. That included deep cleaning of all surfaces, removal of sacks of rubbish, attempting to remove a persistent odour and other entertaining activities that took about a week to achieve.
Now on the basis that an unsecured debt might be unrecoverable, one covered by a tenancy agreement might be. To jump to the conclusion that it's a "lie" is a hell of a jump.
posted by panboi at 12:08 PM on May 26, 2015
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Depending how far away they are, you might be able to get a mutual friend to take along a pre-filled out direct debit form or something like that, and guilt then into filling out and signing.
At a really, really low rate of repayment.
If that doesn't work, any appeals to friendship are toast.
Tell them that the next step is small claims court.
Now, you can't take them to small claims court in the uk while they don't have an address there, but if they have parents here, send it to them - it wouldn't get any further though, but it would be a last ditch effort to get them to pay voluntarily.
Just go for straight out rent and money owed.
But yeah, anything else would depend on where they have gone.
Also, if you lent them money, they may have other, bigger debts. They might never be back. Decide for yourself at what point worrying about it further is just adding an emotional loss in stress experienced to the sunk cost of money down the tubes, and give up on it.
Sorry.
posted by Elysum at 4:16 AM on May 26, 2015